Saturn Returns with Caggie - 2.14 Manifest the Life You Desire: Lacy Phillips

Episode Date: January 4, 2021

Pings, magic dark, rock bottoms and expanders. It's time to unblock your subconscious beliefs of unworthiness and manifest the life you desire. Welcome to the world of manifestation with Lacy Phillips. Lacy is a leading manifestation advisor, creator of brand 'To Be Magnetic' and host of The Expanded podcast. Backed by neuroscience, psychology, and her own energetic gifts, Lacy has created a whole community of people dedicated to her work and workshops. In this expansive episode of Saturn Returns, Caggie and Lacy discuss why the old model of 'think positive' doesn't work, how to step into your authentic self and start the process of manifesting. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Especially when you do inner child and shadow work, they'll be like, whoa. They literally say it feels like 10 years of therapy you know in a month it's so much that you're discovering and and unblocking and uprooting but it's they're like wow this is so magical when they start to feel the harnessing of you know dancing with the universe Lacey Phillips is a leading manifestation advisor. She's the creator of the To Be Magnetic brand and host of the Expanded podcast. Backed by neuroscience, psychology and her own energetic gifts, Lacey has created a whole community of manifestors.

Pings, rock bottoms, the magic dark, unblocking your subconscious limiting beliefs. These are all the terminologies you're about to hear from Lacey's work. Now, Lacey has been, I guess, a huge expander of mine to use her words. I discovered her work when I was in LA and we were introduced through a mutual friend actually when she was visiting London last year. I've always wanted to have her as a guest on the podcast. So I'm so pleased that she agreed. And I love this conversation. And I've always wanted to have her as a guest on the podcast. So I'm so pleased that she agreed. And I love this conversation. And I've really learned so much as a person over the years from listening to her and her work and find her truly inspiring. So I'm really happy to be sharing this

episode with you guys and introducing you to the wonderful Lacey. I also just wanted to remind you that I am doing a live show on February the 9th at the Clapham Grand. Now, if you guys would like to get tickets, I would love to see you there. You can find them at Dice. And I'm going to be joined by the wonderful Catherine Gray, author of The Unexpected Joy of Being Single and The Unexpected Joy of Being Sober. It's going to be a socially distanced and very safe show. So if you would like more details you can find them on the Saturn Returns podcast Instagram. So before we dive into

this very expansive episode with Lacey let's check in with Nora, our astrological guide for the season. Saturn in a chart really kind of shows us where our challenges lie and also what inspires us and what doesn't. Once we start to push through those challenges, we really get to what it is that we truly wanted to achieve when we incarnated into this life. For some, this is brought to their awareness when they go through a Saturn square or a Saturn opposition at the age of 16 or at the age of 21. But for the most of us, this happens during our Saturn return, where we are really being made aware of our inhibitions, our limitations, our boundaries, our challenges. But we are also shown ways of how we can approach an obstacle, how we can approach a stumbling block. how we can approach a stumbling block and what we can do to get over that and then get to what it is that we've always desired always wanted to manifest into our lives the other way that you can kind of use saturn in a chart to manifest what you want is to see when neptune makes a favorable transit to

it you can really kind of crystallize your fantasy, crystallize your manifestation, crystallize your hopes and wishes and bring them into your life. Well, hi, Lacey. Hello, how are you doing? I'm so good. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. I don't know if I told you this when we met, but your podcast was the first podcast I believe that I ever listened to. Wow. But for those listening that don't know about you and your work, would you be able to do a little introduction? Absolutely. So I basically, I'll kind of give a little backstory. So it sounds pretty grounded, but basically I came to LA to act and model. I think as many people do, and I was broke and

didn't have any control over my monetary existence. And my mom always had a clairvoyant that she spoke to growing up. She was always into all of the things as well as my grandmother. So for my birthday at around 17, I think it was, she got me a session with her clairvoyant. And the clairvoyant said, buy this book on manifestation, follow it to a T and you'll manifest everything you want. And it was very much that old manifestation rhetoric of think positive, visualize, pretend to be what you want to be before it comes. And I followed it so heavily to a T and went down the full rabbit hole of the secret and the Hicks books and all of the things we're all familiar with. And I would manifest little things, but never really big

things, which was frustrating for any of us who have done that path because you're like, I'm in the fucking vortex. Why isn't anything happening? You know, so abstract and so much spiritual bypass. And so around 25, after being a doormat and dating, I actually noticed a, I started to tune into my own gifts. I channel and I can read energy and I'm very, very good at reading patterning. If you don't mind me asking, how did you suddenly tap into that? Were you always aware that you had that gift or did it suddenly become apparent? It's so interesting because my mom has all of the gifts. She's like a medium, clairvoyant, audience, sentient. She has everything, dreamer, everything. And so I grew up always knowing about them. And my grandmother

was a channeler and a medium, but I never could like detect, you know, that I had them and why it was so challenging was because it took me a very long time to spot that my main, though I have subtle of most of them, my main one is that I'm claircognizant. And so that's the hardest one. I think it's the most abstract gift to have because rather than seeing into the future or hearing you know your guides communicate to you and all of that I just know things and I was like doing my fair share of partying and all of that good stuff of numbing out throughout my early 20s you know so wait but those that don't know so as in it just means know, yeah. So what it looks like for me is let's say, Kagi, you walk up to me and you're

seeing someone new and you're kind of speaking to him. I will just know, I'll be like, if she does this, this will happen. He is X, Y, and Z for her good. So it's just, I know things. So it's like, I'm not seeing visions of the future. And so it took me a really long time to trust that knowing, because I think when you're first starting to play with your intuitive gifts, I think everybody has them. So everybody listening, you certainly have your own. It's really about figuring out your own patterning and really trusting it. And so it took me a long time and we'll get into that more, but having very low self-worth, actually trusting when I would have all of these downloads. Would you say that those things are connected in terms

of having low self-worth and not trusting your gifts? I think that's, yeah, not trusting in yourself and having confidence. I would say the root of that is feeling truly like the energetic root is unlovable or not worthy. So I would say that for most things in your life, absolutely connected. Because that is a huge component to the work that you do, isn't it? It is. Yes. I started to realize, wow, this has nothing to do with positivity, but it has everything to do with when I step into my self-worth, what I want magnetizes towards me. And so an example of that was this partner I had made a list for, you know, it was like everything, I mean, crazy things

like Parisian family and, you know, photographer, long blonde server, crazy shit that you asked for at 25. And he turned up. He totally turned up. And then also a really crazy one that really got my attention was I was, you know, in a very expensive apartment at the time. And I had had three different friends, you know, we'll get into expanders, but three different people in my life talk about how they manifested this crazy guest house. You know, one was in Laurel Canyon for under $500. And a lot of those kinds of coincidences are very affordable living spaces and very nice places. And I was like, Oh, well, if they can do it, I can do it too. And so I called out this list,

you know, for a place under $500 in the hills, everything's very expensive. They're certainly in the hills. And I manifested a $325 apartment with everything on my list. And it was always after I stepped into my self-worth, I didn't settle and I expanded and I went, holy shit, manifestation is nothing to do with visualizing and thinking positive. It has everything to do with then. That was sort of the genesis. And so what we teach at To Be Magnetic is a form of manifestation that's deeply rooted in neuroscience, psychology, and my energetic gifts. So when you started manifesting these things at quite, I guess, a young age before you had

created this sort of infrastructure of the to be magnetic formula. Did you know that you'd already done the self-worth work or was that something that sort of happened simultaneously whilst it was going on? So it was a five year period after that 25 mark where I threw everything away that I had ever learned, you know, because once I had the guy show up in the apartment, I was like, oh, fuck, I'm only doing whatever I've been doing. Did you know what you've been doing? No. So it took a five year process until third. Well, even probably earlier, I would say 28. So maybe a three year process of truly watching patterning, really doing what would be the first genesis before I had ever heard

of anything like shadow work and inner child work. I would have a lot of points where I love driving as an Aquarius. I just love being alone and being on the road. And so I would often drive to the beach and I would take my journal. And while I was there, I started to put together patterning. journal. And while I was there, I started to put together patterning. So I was like, wow, you know, this guy I had dated strongly resembled how my aunt treated me when I was young. And I started to look at all of this, you know, all of what we call blocks from childhood and how I'm just recreating the exact same scenarios in different people and situations that I picked up in childhood. So patterning for people that don't know, can you break that down a little bit more? Sure. So it's, it's literally

what it sounds like. It's starting to look at the different things in your life that are showing up, noticing what they're, you know, similar to whether it's energetically or presenting as it has in the past and starting to look at where the root of why you attracted that comes from. So that's where I started to pick up patterning and I went, wow. And I had never really been in true therapy. I had done that when I was a little, but didn't understand anything that was going on, you know, sort of around junior high years. So it was really interesting that I was sort of channeling this stuff that exists in the world, which is called inner child work and shadow. And I started to notice that it really is the basis

of everything we project and manifest back to us that we imprinted from the ages of zero to seven. Through neuroplasticity, we've learned that we continue to imprint, but really most things can be connected back to those years of zero to seven. So it was actually, yeah, that three-year process that I really looked and understood the energetics of manifestation. If I did this, then that would show up. And then at 29, I, it was 28, 29, I had been working at the most toxic faculty environment for a preschool. I was a preschool teacher, funny enough. It was so toxic and so strenuous, like energetically and emotionally that I ended up like blowing out my adrenals, you know, so not well by the end of it.

And when I left, I went, okay, this is when I'm really going to put everything in motion that I've learned that, you know, like this whole hypothesis that I've been working on. And I went universe, I will never ever work for another person again. And we'll get into the formula a little bit more, but I had expanded, I hadn't blocked, I had looked at everything in me that attracted that low self worth working environment. So I knew I was at a good place to jump off this cliff. And so I was like, I'm not going to do anything. I have $4,000 in savings and I have a little bit of unemployment. You show me what to do next. And I kept getting these messages back of a blog, you know, and they kept showing me this blog. I don't know if you've heard of it, but called,

it was called My New Roots. It was really leading me into following this like spirituality, holistic living. And it would be years before I put out manifestation. But when I jumped off that cliff, I started my blog, everything started to happen. It was like the best flow of all flows. And I went, of all flows. And I went, fuck, I have a crazy way that I know how to manifest that really works. It's super actionable. It always works for me. And it's nothing to do with anything I've ever learned about before that felt really abstract and loosey goosey. And it wasn't until about two, three years in, I think two years in to the blog that all of my resources dried up. I had become an herbalist.

I was working with clients. I was a holistic chef and everything dried up. It was all around the holidays. So I didn't have any money. I had just gone through a breakup and in meditation, I kept getting the message. It was like, you know what you're on the earth to do. You need to put this out into the world. And I'm not going to give you anything like resource wise until you do. And within two weeks I went and I was really afraid to put this into the world

because I grew up with like a very conservative cowboy dad in a very small town already having a holistic blog was so bonkers. And I was like, I'm about to come out and tell people I'm a manifestation advisor. And I was like, Oh, no, there's no way I can do this. What are people from high school going to think? Yeah, well, the ego kind of gets in the way. And then also, I think what you've created, and that's why it's been so successful and so amazing is no one's done it before, really. Like I've never come across anyone that makes it also so formulaic and digestible. And I think that's why people have connected to it. But with anything like that, when you're taking that sort of jump,

it's terrifying. And fear is always the gatekeeper on the precipice of anything great. fear is always the gatekeeper on the precipice of anything great. Absolutely. And yes. And so within two weeks I launched it and then, then talk about a flow. That was a whole new level of any type of flow I've ever, ever experienced in my life. That was so, so super speed. For people that might be listening and thinking, you know, cause I believe that everyone has, like you said as well, their own gifts. And it's just we don't always know how to tap into them. So to go into your terminology for someone that perhaps isn't familiar with this work or with manifesting and is in, let's say, a job that they don't like, they aspire to do something different. like they aspire to do something different. Could you, using some of your terminology,

like rock bottoms and magic dart, explain what some of the pings, as it were, of the universe might be that are indicating that they should be pursuing something else and it's time to take a bit of a dive off the cliff? So essentially, the formula is made up on three really key factors. And then it becomes nuanced from there, but still really actionable. And so the first is unblocking. And so again, like what I was saying from zero to seven, everything that we've imprinted in our subconscious, we're currently still looping on and projecting out and receiving back. So wherever we experience high self-worth and accolade and love and acceptance and safety for who we are and being seen for who we are, we tend to manifest those things very simply or where we witnessed a lot of success without any turmoil around it. And then anywhere we experience low self-worth, and again, when I say experience, this comes from many places. So it comes from

media, peers, community, certainly parental modeling or caretaker modeling. Anything we experienced as like one big TV system has imprinted this in us. And so the low self-worth is what continues to loop, project out and keep us stuck where we are or bringing in the things we don't want. So for anybody who's out there who's experiencing a rut or a rock bottom or somewhere they don't want to be or a dating pattern they don't want to exist in or a living situation or continually broke, any of those things are all changeable and they're just looping in your subconscious from where you pick them up. So that's just something to know. That's incredibly powerful. There's nothing wrong with

you. You know, like you're not, you don't have bad luck. Cause it can be small experiences, can't it? I think people think, Oh, well, I didn't have anything traumatic happen, or I had a good upbringing and I had a good family. So they don't really want to look at that. And they think, really want to look at that. And they think, you know, they feel like they might be blaming someone if they do. But like you say, these things can be so small and seemingly insignificant,

but can have a huge impact on us and the way we see the world going forward. Absolutely. It can be so tiny. And I used to love when I used to take clients that I would get the ones that said, I had the best upbringing in home life. And I'm like, you might've, but still you've experienced pain and shame in your life from different facets or places you may not have even recognized. And it has nothing to do with the people of which you experienced them from or witnessed them from,

because this is your journey of unblocking them and raising them to be high self-worth. So when you're doing, for instance, like inner child work, a lot of people feel very guilty doing it because, you know, they feel like they're betraying their parents. And I always say this isn't a blaming game. It really has nothing to do with anybody else. And so like the beautiful thing about that unblocking process is we've learned through neuroscience and psychology, and we're so proud and excited to be magnetic that we brought on an advisor in neuroscience,

and she's a neuroscientist, and she was a practicing psychiatrist of seven years, Dr. Tara Swart. She's actually UK-based, and she's on faculty at MIT. She's remarkable. based and she's on faculty at MIT. She's remarkable. So she has been with us, advising us and going through every workshop. And we have her on the podcast once a month in the explain series. She goes through and breaks down the neuroplasticity of how we change the brain. So I had figured out this theory pretty early on that when we access our subconscious and bring it forward, we can actually get to the root of those memories and give it a new suggestion of healing. And we can create a new neural pathway. And when we reinforce it enough, it becomes stronger and stronger. And the old pathway that's looping of low self-worth falls off.

And the new one that becomes strengthened projects out. And therefore you literally start projecting a whole new self-worth and you start to manifest in a whole new experience. So that's what the whole unblocking piece is. That's one of the foundations of the work. And then the second is an old manifestation rhetoric. You always hear visualize. And I used to visualize so much. Like I always make the joke that I would be

working at the laugh factory on sunset, making $300 a week as a cocktail server, but visualizing my Malibu home with my infinity pool back then, like my sauna. And it definitely wasn't coming. And I started to realize again, through simple psychology, that the visualizing part, though, that can be important for many things. And there's a lot of science that backs up the importance of visualizing. However, if you're somebody like me, who had never grown up exposed to that, and especially it wasn't reinforced while I was growing up that I could have that, I realized the importance of finding expanders. That's what we call it. And what that is, is going out and finding people who you identify with, you know,

wherever they used to be that you're currently at, they've gone on to have or be successful in what you do want. And when we find enough expanders, the lower our self-worth, the more we need, usually typically three, if we have very low belief around it, you'll have this really incredible moment where you'll go, oh, wow, wait a second. If they could do it, I can do it too. And that's what creates space in the brain for what you want, you know, in your subconscious. Like it could be anything. Obviously in person tends to expand us the quickest because we can ask them questions and, you know, live vicariously through them. But we even have a term called fragment expanders

where you find them literally all over the place. They can be friends of friends stories that you heard. It's whatever is going to be that key point in your subconscious where you have that opening of, oh my gosh, she did that. Like I'm even kind of better at it. Usually when we have low self-worth, if we do feel more capable than the person who has achieved or is successful in, it actually helps us expand quicker.

So those are really, really key, the first two key points. And then the third, we always hear an old spiritual bypass manifestation that it's positivity. The example that I like to use a lot when I'm demystifying the positivity concept, if you look at the narcissist in your life, a very big one that we know in the public would be Trump, for instance. He's an incredible manifester. And it's not, you know what I mean? And so if you look at narcissists in your life, and it's not, you know what I mean? And so if you look at narcissists in your life, they tend to be fantastic manifestors because they literally believe in what they're manifesting, that they can have it and they have an inflated self of sense of self-worth. So it actually has

very little to do with positivity and the world to do with subconscious self-worth. But I guess not all narcissists have high self-worth. No, no. And I mean, especially when you look at narcissism, it's a big spectrum of how that can present. But, you know, if we're just using it as an example, if you look at the people in your life who may lack a lot of positivity or qualities that one would think are very heart-centered and admirable, but they tend to be like really good manifestors. It usually has to do with a sense of self worth or a sense of deservingness. Yeah, because I think the traditional, as it were, the new age manifestation process of this, like think positive attitude is one so rigid. And also, we think in sort of day-to-day linear thought in our conscious minds

but the subconscious is really the one in the driving seat for most of the time and so I think that's why this work is so important and interesting because it's that thing again if people listening that might this all might sound quite foreign to them they would relate to the concept of someone saying I always go for unavailable men there's frustration or like I can't you know I'm not making enough money or all these kind of things and it just feels so frustrating because you're they want something different and they're trying for something different because but they're not addressing that deep subconscious so they're not able to reprogram and rewire. And that's why I think this stuff is so incredible

and going to be so useful for people because it allows them to do that and to really unpin all that deep stuff that's going on below the surface. That's exactly it. And I mean, I even listening to you say that can remember from the ages of, well, teenage all the way to 25, 26, being like, you know, why, why isn't this changing? And on the floor crying, I had a lot of those moments. And until I understood the power of, yeah, accessing the subconscious and, you know, overriding these old belief systems and literally, you know, creating a new sense of self essentially in a very, very mild way, that's when everything changed. And I think with the creating of the new sense of self, essentially, in a very, very mild way, that's when everything changed. And I think with the creating of the new sense of self, that is, I mean, I would say a sort of crumbling of the former, which I think, probably brings up a lot

of fear for people, because they're having to dismantle something that essentially has allowed them to survive for a certain period of time. You know, it's been a necessary infrastructure. So the idea of like dismantling that is quite fear inducing. And also with the inner child work, it can be quite a painful process. Certainly so. And I think you touched on something so important, you know, I call it the ego die off. And essentially what this work is really getting at that I learned very early on is what it's really guiding us to do is get back into our true, whole, worthy, authentic selves. And every one of us were born as that. And then through the act of the human experience from day one, we start to experience pain, shame, and therefore we create an onion shell, you know, around us.

And that's what we call the shadow. So it's the masks that we have to present as to survive or to be loved or to be liked. And this whole process of this work is to de-layer those layers of the onion or take off the masks and become truly our whole worthy authentic selves. And through that process, there's a real discovery period. You know, it's really wild when you do the inner child work and the shadow work and you start to meet who you truly are. It can be very scary to hear the process, but it's actually so extremely therapeutic to meet yourself and have a deep exhale and start to take all of that weight

off and start to exist as yourself. Yeah. And I think that that's such a relatable concept because we do, especially in our sort of teenage years and twenties, I'd say, try and fit in and, you know, be a certain person for our friendship or society or whatever that main influence is or our parents our families but then I say around your Saturn return that becomes this thing where you just feel like I have to actually be me but we've sort of lost touch of who that is it's so interesting with Saturn return and manifestation the like main goal of how they come together is that in our process of manifestation, there's a concept called tests, which nobody had ever pointed out before I really surveyed this pattern. And even hearing this, as I say it, many people will be like, oh my gosh,

that always happens to me. That's always the reaction. When we're getting closer to manifesting the thing we truly want, we tend to be tested. So say we left the relationship that no longer served us or they left us and we're starting to call in the next experience or dating, we often receive tests, suitors that it's very obvious at first, right? It's like suitors that are really wrong or as our self-worth raises, it can be more subtle where it's very obvious at first, right? It's like suitors that are really wrong or as our self-worth raises, it can be more subtle where it's our list, but they're emotionally unavailable or they don't want to commit or whatever.

Within the testing process, so when it comes to Saturn return, the key, key energetics that matter the most in manifestation and when you're in your Saturn return is that you pass all the tests you know that you need to pass or the cliffs you know you need to jump off of. And so for me, for instance, it was that toxic job. I grew up in an environment that money was scarce when I was young. And so everything's about security and safety and leaving this job that had good benefits and was secure after waitressing and

acting for so long. I remember my mom during that time was like, are you sure you want to leave Lacey? Are you, you have great benefits and you have retirement? And I was like, yes. Like this is when I knew my process worked. I was like, yes, I'm leaving. And the universe will reward you. So beautifully. So whenever I see people on their Saturn return and I can see they're just banging their head against the wall and they don't have that guidance. Oh, it's so painful to watch and knowing that it's just going to keep popping up in their life, right? Because that's the cycle of how Saturn return works. So just having that information for the people tuning in is really powerful however it may present in

your life I completely connect and relate to that and I'm through your work I'm aware of it I definitely had some situations recently where I'd say tests have come up and I wasn't necessarily gonna pass them but the universe sort of made me pass them if that makes sense so I had a relationship that ended at the end of last year and actually it was a hugely um it was a catalyst for great change for me and actually like put me right on the path that I needed to be on it was incredibly painful but it was a very classic Saturn return sort of breakup of like it was overnight everything fell apart and whatever happened happened but then since I was like okay I'm definitely you know I'm a big believer and you need to healthily process the emotions and everything you experienced and give you know space in between rather than jumping into something

new straight away and so I did and I kind of have taken the year to do that and then someone came along quite recently I can't believe my shoulders off but from my past that I was like okay I feel yeah this feels right to like meet up with him and hang out with him and anyway it was like this very intense chemistry this this very intense connection. And I guess I was aware on many levels that it was a pattern of behavior that had been my understanding of love, that love was this, you know, can't eat, sleep, breathe kind of obsessive intensity. That's like always has been my thing. So I'm kind of renowned through my friendships as someone that like will fall in love on the first date and we're sort of planning our wedding like that's that's been my thing so this person came along and I knew on like a level that I was operating from

like I guess a lower frequency within it nothing bad about him he's an amazing person but just the energy that I was coming from I was like this doesn't feel like where I need to be going it then sort of actually I guess I did pass it because it then sort of started to like feel like it might fall apart and his behavior went really off like trying to ghost style and I was just like no no I'm not having any of this and so I ended up sending him because I was like okay I haven't really behaved how I want to behave in relationship in this experience. But what can I do now to kind of redeem that going forward? I was like, okay, all I can do is take complete accountability for my part and my behavior and gracefully like exit the situation.

So I just sent him this voice note basically being like, look, I felt like there was a connection. And I was like, but a connection and I was like but you know I want to honor that connection by you know saying whatever I said and I was like you can not talk to me forever if that's what you want to do that's your experience you're entitled to that I just wanted to speak my truth here and anyway ended up opening up a dialogue of a lot of integrity between us and then I guess actually from that, then I met someone who was really amazing and like completely different from anybody I've ever dated in the best way. So I guess, yeah, that actually is an example of those tests.

So number one, I love this because I do know your story from the last relationship, which, you know, dissolved really traumatically, but it also, well, anyways, I don't know if you've shared that, but anyway, going into this person who presented, you know, that you've just spoken about, I just want people to understand this terminology because it's a very clear example of that so there's a theory called trauma bonding and attachment styles yes yes I'm so glad you brought this up you're so hysterical about this is he started telling me about attachment and saying that he had like anxious attachment to his ex-girlfriend.

I kind of did, wasn't that familiar with it. And then after a bit, I was like, oh my God, I'm anxiously attached. So I'm excited to hear what you have to say about that. So when we have that moment, most often than not, we have this course called Unblock Love, and it's literally the first day that we teach on trauma bonding because we're so programmed in society through things like Disney movies and Happily Ever After and rom-coms, Hollywood essentially, to tell us when we have that like kinetic, crazy attraction with somebody that it's a positive thing. I would give it a 2% chance that it is, you know, the love at first sight thing. It's very rare that I've ever heard that that ends up that way. But I will say 98%, it's usually a very big red flag of trauma

bonding. And so what trauma bonding means is that your perfect trauma pieces. So say one of your, your parents abandoned your other parent growing up, you seek abandoners. Uh, and then you basically the other person that you're having this like crazy experience with upfront, their missing trauma piece is exactly, it fits perfectly with your missing trauma piece. And that's why it's this like insane attraction and energy. And it's not to say that all trauma bonding can't work out, but if you have a great recognition of it and the other person you're meeting also recognizes it and has done a lot of work. And as you're both like, let's put the brakes on, let's, you know, assess that, you know, there's a possibility,

but you have to be dealing with an incredibly conscious person to do that. So that's also a 98% chance that that's even possible. That's something that I love to put on people's radar when they are calling in partnerships because usually- It's such a misrepresentation of what love and a relationship should really be

about but that is the mainstream narrative and through like every film we've ever watched so rather than being like oh this is because it's that thing of you know those comments like you complete me or you know this thing that we're not complete without that other person all plays into that. And it is actually not fucking healthy. And it'll save you a lot of time if you learn about this and do the work around it to actually find your person. And in fact, that was my specialty. There was one year that I connected, I think it was 67 people with their partners. And yeah, it was crazy because I learned this through dating first. So I became a pro at dating. So anybody who's struggling, you should do unblock love for sure. But most often than not, I hear when you do find the person you've been manifesting

and granted, like, this is another thing you'll learn with this manifestation approach is it's not like you manifest your thing and it's happily ever after. I don't care what it is, job, whatever. We're humans. We once the child's here, it's not like the child's going to be this perfect child and I'm a perfect mom. You know what I mean? The work begins. But I will say like hands down, probably another 98% of the time when people actually manifest their person, that's correct. And it's not a test. It usually feels like when your hands come together very effortlessly, there aren't games, you guys communicate, you're able to take it slow at your pace. Everybody is supportive of that. You don't feel like you're having to put on a front for sure intimacy in any way. And I don't mean having sex only. I mean, the moment you start having feelings for someone, your stuff is going to come up. You're going to pull all your stuff that you have from childhood and what you learned in

relationships. That's intimacy. See into me. It's very vulnerable. So I'm not saying that it won't have any of that, but it won't feel like games. It's not going to feel like that crazy, insane energy. So when you're going through the testing period, it's a really great energy to remember everything you just described in your second experience after your, you know, your ex. Totally. Tests. Your third experience sounds like it has a good shot. Yeah, I know. like it has a good shot yeah I know it's actually really interesting because I'm basically a living example of this theory in practice because everything you say is like a hundred percent on and the trauma bonding thing like I think you know I empathize with those listening that are

going through that because it's like the greatest aphrodisiac in the world like it's the best drug on the planet it's like it's human crack completely completely like if if someone's kind of in the demise of something like that like have have faith because it's it's a necessary process and i think that we we need those experiences to have the contrast and definitely like a hundred percent with the person that i'm seeing now what i how i described to my friends i was like he doesn't make me feel insecure there's just none of that energy going on it's just like you say slow hands like coming together it's like a it's like a slow flame 100 percent and I think that is something so important to talk about because a lot of people when we start talking about tests they'll really focus on it and obsess over it because we're both English and American cultures based on perfectionism.

And so they'll be like, fuck, I failed the test. Oh my gosh. And so the first thing we always say, there's no such thing as failing a test because like your second experience, a lot of people who haven't fully learned those lessons yet of being a doormat, not saying that you were in this experience, but I think collectively, many of us, you know, especially women, I'll say just again, because of the common narratives that exists out there and patriarchy and all that good stuff. We tend to go through phases of being a doormat, you know, or the older we get and wanting certain serious things. I'm definitely all about like, you cannot fail a test. And what happens if quote, unquote, you fail a test, another one just comes because the whole concept of testing comes from, again, getting back to that theory that the universe, God, source, whomever you're talking to

is just trying to get you back into your true, whole, authentic, worthy self that you came onto the planet as, the testing period, as a human, we tend to want more than we have. That's just human nature, animal nature. So therefore, the self-worth of what we desire tends to be higher than where ours is. And that's why we have to do a little bit of looking at the childhood and blocking, expanding to make sure that our brain really believes we can have this type of relationship. So I guess a key part of this is it's uncomfortable work. It's not that easy breezy. And you know, I, when I first started it,

or sometimes I'll hear when people first start, they'll be like, especially when you do inner child and shadow work, they'll be like, whoa, like they, they literally say it feels like 10 years of therapy, you know, in a month. It's so much that you're discovering and, and unblocking and uprooting, but it's, they're like, wow, this is so magical when they start to feel the harnessing of, you know, dancing with the universe and, and being like, wow, finally I have actual languaging and actionable steps and tools of how to make that connection with what I want. But it is, it isn't like making a vision board and thinking positive or all the funny things I used to do.

I always laugh where I remember reading all the books and like some of them would suggest in partnership to make the other nightstand. Like it's like he exists already or put clothes in the closet, you know, like that kind of silly, what I call that spiritual bypass, you know, because you're bypassing the real deep work. I call that spiritual bypass, you know, because you're bypassing the real deep work. I do think that there is something in that too, because basically the person that I'm seeing now, I won't go into detail, but he was not making energetic space for anyone. And I could see that as I came in. So I do have some belief around that kind of stuff. Well, what I like about that too, because you guys attracted each other. And I do want to preface this, that I think the

only reason why we attract anything into our lives, may we be consciously or unconsciously calling it in, is that we're all just mirrors to reflect back to each other where we need to get back to our true authentic selves. Totally. Okay. The last thing before you go, because thank you so much for your time, but I wanted to ask you about was the magic dark. My favorite. Yes. So that's what it'll grow to be everybody's favorite because that's right. When, you know, the thing is about to come through that you've really been calling in. So in it, after you've expanded, you've unblocked, you've expanded, you have been passing tests. There's a phase that comes that

took me a while to recognize as well, but it always came. It's called the magic dark. I, God, if I could go back and I would have termed all of this very differently, but it was the way that I could put a name to the energetic. And so what tends to happen is, especially if you had very low self-worth in your last experience, whatever it was, a terrible living situation, and you're calling in a better one, less pay, you're calling in much better pay in a better position, dating, relationships, you've done those tests and you've been passing them and your self-worth was so low. So the tests are getting harder and harder to recognize as you pass them because they're getting more and more subtle. Then you hit this

place usually that's called the magic dark. And what that looks like is, and this is very traditional again for people who had a very low self-worth experience. So I would have been a great example of that in that teaching job. It was just really abusive, terrible. Calling in, let's say if I were to have called in another teaching job, a better one, I would have had a lot of tests and they would have looked like maybe another preschool that everything looked, or it was very obvious at first that the faculty had something going on there. And then the second interview I do, it seems like the faculty's on point, but the parents might be really like, whatever, something that doesn't

jive energetically. I can sense that. And then it gets more subtle. It's like the third might actually all be good, but then you get some red flags from the director who's hiring you. And say I pass all of those. I'm like, no, I recognize this. I'm passing it because I was in such a low self-worth position before the universe is going to throw me a magic dark. And what that is, it's this period where everything goes quiet. It's like crickets. There's no length that determines it, but the way I can describe it, it's kind of like when the water recedes out really far before it's going to, like the big wave's going to come, which is the manifestation, or it can be like the darkest before the dawn.

And in that time, what the universe is asking you, are you really sure you're not going to settle for that old low self-worth behavior again? Are you really sure? And when you're like, fuck, I have $300 in savings and I keep saying no to all of these test experiences. Yeah, universe, I'm not fucking with you. I'm sure, Bam. That's when you connect with your thing. There is this one. So, you know, I'm in a position now where my fiance and I own a home in Topanga and we were doing a lot of landscaping. It's an acre. And because I come from a big lack environment, it's still really hard for me to like not budget. You know, when we're trying to I look at these big numbers that are being proposed for like this huge landscaping job. And I'm like, Oh my God, what,

you know, even though we're splitting it and stuff like that, it's still, it shows my low, you know, like it'll show me where I have the work to do and I'm blocking still and expanding, even though we can pay for it. And I got to look at, Whoa, I've been in really low self-worth mode. So when it came to doing our remodel on our house in Topanga, I knew like I have some serious up leveling to do. And we have to take the people that are true professionals and pay like the full professional rate instead of like getting the friend or the thing or the whatever. And it, I had such a magic dark with it. I mean, it took us a year to get our permits. We saw so many contractors and architects and it was just like test after test and then crickets

the magic dark for a while. And then we finally settled on these ones and it's been such an up-leveling experience the whole time. It's like, it's just so, it's so much growth, you know, from what I come from and what I know. And, you know, another person who comes from wealth would maybe experience that in something like dating. So that's what a magic dart can look like. And it really tends to become your favorite, even though it's this low period and you're like, what happened? I was on such a roll. It's so special because when you're in it, you're like, the thing? I was on such a roll. It's so special because when you're in it, you're like, the thing is coming. It's really coming. And it's funny because we'll get people that confuse this. They'll like to hear this or they'll just start the work and they'll be like,

oh, I'm in a magic dark. And we're like, no, you're in a rut. That's just means like nothing's happening. And you think you're in a magic dark and it's not the case a magic dark is after you've unblocked expanded you're passing tests and there was a lot of momentum in tests whereas a rut just nothing's happening which just means you're out of alignment with your authentic self and you just get back on your path we have a whole workshop on that amazing well lacy thank you so much i love talking to you about all this. And I think our listeners are going to take so much away from it. I love that. Thank you. And I can't wait to see you when I'm in the UK next. see you can find her at to be magnetic on instagram or me at kaggy's world and if you would like a reading with our astrological guide nora you can find her at stars incline don't forget to check out tickets for the live show that are now on sale

please continue to share this podcast with anyone you think might find it useful and if you would like to write us a review on apple that helps us get discovered by more like-minded people saturn returns is a feast collective production the producer is scarlet o'malley and the executive producer is kate taylor until next time thank you so very much for listening and remember you are not alone.