Saturn Returns with Caggie - 2.16 Money matter: Africa Brooke

Episode Date: January 18, 2021

Caggie is joined by Africa Brooke, beginning the New Year by talking work, money, careers and self-worth. Africa is a mindset coach, motivational speaker and great friend of the podcast. This is her second appearance so do check out episode 10 if you love her as much as we do. In this special episode, the two dissect their own money beliefs and how to re-establish a better relationship with finances in order to move toward self-actualisation.  --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. If you create space to be in process by saying something like, I have the capacity to be good with money, that creates that possibility and you can train yourself to say that so whenever it comes into your head or you feel like you're with your friends and it's all you know you're playing the role that you used to be then you're like I'm so stop yourself now you may remember in episode 10 we talked to the incredible Africa Brooke and we went pretty

deep on self-sabotage, addiction, the journey to sobriety and the role that the expectations of those around you play in shaping your behavior. Anyway it soon became very clear that we had so much to say that it wasn't going to fit into one episode and we needed more space to go into all these ideas in a totally different sphere. The world of work and money, careers, self-worth and self-actualization. Because of the new year I felt like this would be the perfect time to be talking about these things. So here you have it, my episode two with Africa Brooke who has become a dear friend of mine. I find her so inspiring and I just love these conversations we had. So I hope you enjoy this.

In terms of like the business aspect of things that you do, I'm curious to ask you about the energetics of money. Okay, well, what exactly do you want to know? Because there's so much much I love the face that you just made I mean it's just something that I've been really curious to talk to someone about and I feel like you're the perfect person to talk to about it because obviously like money in our relationship to it again is a very personal one and it's you know it hasn't been that long since women are actually allowed to work so there's like this disconnect and there's a lot of shame, I think, around our relationship with money.

I also grew up because of the person that I am and probably the family that I was in. And like, it's not really talked about. I'm just a creative kind of squiggly mess. So I don't really think in that kind of way. So it's something I'm like, if I feel like that way I'm sure a lot of people will as well yeah but then there's also the internal belief system around like what your worth is and how that then can limit your progression in life and how you state like what your worth is financially yeah and that seems to be something that you really nail I love talking about money and sex and self-sabotage and just mindset in general,

because these are very kind of taboo areas where no one is willing to talk about it in a very transparent way. And the most interesting thing is that these are the things that we experience or interact with every single day on a conscious and subconscious level. Because when you think about it, even if you look at this room, everything around you has something to do with money. If you were able to kind of click your fingers and anything that has anything to do with money would kind of just disappear. You would be the only thing standing there naked with no clothes, nothing, the home wouldn't be there, whatever it is. So we interact with money on a subconscious level every single day. There are things that you're able to do and not able to do because of money. And if you live on

planet earth in modern day society, and you don't think it's important to heal your emotional relationship with money, I mean, I do. You're fucked. I'm like, gulp. me I do I do I'm like gulp and the reason why money is a big part of what I do as a business coach and as a mindset coach is because in sobriety and everything kind of links to this I realized that the shame that I had wasn't just to do with sex it wasn't just about me not being enough it was shame in pretty much every single area of life. And with money in particular, I realized that there were beliefs about money that I had adopted, generational beliefs about money from my caregivers, from the environment that I grew up in. You don't talk about money. Money is bad. You shouldn't want money. People that want money in excess are greedy.

Rich people are evil. Rich people don't care about the world. Those are beliefs and we all have them. Without judgment, start to actually think about what your money beliefs are. But the thing is, because I had these beliefs, it was actually stopping me from living the life that I wanted to live. I've always been a creative person. I wanted to be in the music industry to begin with. And I did

so many different projects growing up and money. I had to have money conversations at some point, even with work, right? My kind of nine to five shift work. I worked in hospitality because of my money beliefs. I never had conversations about money. I just waited for other people to tell me what I'm worth and then it's done. And accepted it. Oh yeah. I found that pattern. And I know this is the case for a lot of people much easier because that's the pattern that we know in the corporate world, or if you work for anyone else where you apply for the position, they have already determined what you are worth in that position. So you never really have to have the conversation not many people negotiate

only men are really kind of conditioned to negotiate that's another whole other thing well I mean women go in to apply for something when they're like seriously overqualified for the position and only then whereas men will be like I basically only have half of that but I'll go for it I'll go for it and I'll get it and they And, you know, I started to realize that for myself, I was just, I did not speak about money at all. I found it very uncomfortable, which meant that I settled for less in jobs. And by the time that I started working for myself, I started kind of getting recognized as a speaker, as a voice. I never asked about the money. I just did everything for free because I thought that I should be grateful. I thought that never asked about the money. I just did everything for free because I thought that

I should be grateful. I thought that if I have the money conversation, the opportunity is going to be taken away. So you just never have the conversation, but what happens? You become resentful because there's an unequal energy, right? Because there's an unequal energy exchange. So when I talk about the energetics of money and why I love money and why I think it's important to talk about it, because it's not about the physical thing itself. It's not about the paper or a pile of fucking coins. Money means options. Money means access. Money means the more that I have, the more I have to give. That's what money means. Money means that I am able to create space in my life,

time freedom, where I'm not just focused on working. And that causes a ripple effect for so many other people within my family and in what people see as an example. So for me, I had to completely shift my relationship with money because I realized that I was sabotaging myself based on what I had absorbed from the world but then I'm also living in a world that says you need money to live here. How did you reprogram those belief systems around money? I started reading so before I kind of reprogrammed those beliefs on a deeper level I was reading a lot. I read this book and I recommend it to everyone You Are a Badass at Making Money by Jen Sincero. I read this book and I recommend it to everyone you are a badass

at making money by Jen Sincero I read this in about 2016 2017 when I started kind of looking at why I had this kind of weird energy around money and even in my long-term relationship we never spoke about money we just we just never spoke about it ever and I now I think that's so weird to not speak about it but people don't because people get a lot of you know it's so linked to our own personal self-worth yeah people are like oh that's private I don't want to talk about that because it's like well if you earn a lot more than me then that doesn't mean does that mean that I'm worthless you as a person and it all gets like a bit conflicted yeah and that's the first what i would say mistake in my eyes that we um associate our our self-worth with money with these tangible

things but they're completely separate that's why when i hear people say things like charge your worth i get what it means i get what it means and that there are times when people say you should know how to charge your worth let's say you're in business or you're having a money conversation and people say you should learn how to charge your worth get paid your worth i think that tends to not work for a lot of people because a lot of people are charging from a place of low self-worth so they're like, chips? So they're like... And even then, that would feel like too much. Even then, that feels like too much for a lot of people.

So for me, I was reading quite a lot. I started to keep mentors around me, people that I found online that were having empowering conversations about money, especially women. And by the time I started discovering that I needed to look at my money beliefs, I was reframing. What reframing is, it's when you look at the same situation or the same opinion, just through a different lens. If it's something like, I'm shit with money, which so many people, we need to stop saying this

bullshit. People say things like things like oh i'm so bad with money even when it's not true even when it's not true it's so it's almost like people say it because it's so normalized it's almost as if it's relatable to say that even when it's not true oh i'm so bad with money you're creating a new money story for yourself every time you say that because now that you're imprinting that so much it becomes a part of your identity so your belief system is going to make sure that it produces results that align with what you're saying because you're like a supercomputer right it's like neurolinguistic oh for sure you're feeding the same program into the computer that you are

so now i'm bad with money is your story which means your actions are going to make sure that they're in alignment with that that's just how the brain works in terms of what we were saying as well about like other friendships or old friendships being like oh you're this it kind of goes hand in hand with that it's like if people in your family like kaki's useless with money oh my god and then you're just like that's constant you have to be able to not only call yourself out but those around you yes that are keeping you stuck in that story and if someone was to say that out loud this is again when you have an opportunity to state a boundary say actually i'm not i'm not comfortable with you saying that can we stop saying that right in

whatever way you would that's an opportunity instead of you laughing and right a reframe for that for example would be i have the capacity to be good with money because for a lot of people if it's i'm bad with money saying something like i'm good with money is going to feel like bullshit your conscious mind is going to feel like bullshit. Your conscious mind is going to be like, what? No. No. Whereas if you create space to be in process by saying something like, I have the capacity to be good with money, that creates that possibility

and you can train yourself to say that. So whenever it comes into your head or you feel like you're with your friends and it's all, you know, you're playing the role that you used to be then you're like I'm so stop yourself and then in your mind you you reframe and use that say that new story I have the capacity to be good with money so for me reframing is something I do all the time and that's what reframing is is creating that space. Changing the previous way of thinking.

And then again, probably questioning the why. Yeah. Because also this is not about denying the reality. Because I have a thing at the moment where I'm like, I need to set up online banking. But I refuse to do it. Why? I don't know. It's literally like, okay, go to the bank this week or like do whatever simple

thing you need to do so it just makes it easier that it's like all online and it's there and I just won't do it wow my sister has the exact same thing we were talking about this there's so much resistance yeah and it's like there must be more to it yeah and sometimes the resistance is because you're more used to the version of yourself that doesn't follow through with things or you're more used to the version of yourself that says oh I'm so disorganized I don't do stuff so now that you're trying to take an action oh yeah now you're trying to take an action that doesn't align with that story because they're all stories there's resistance the way that shows up for me actually I engage with this one what I'm

going to tell you I engage I will do things so if I kind of have an event or something that I need to do and I need to prepare kind of content for it or whatever I'll do it very last minute maybe even the day before a few hours before yeah it will always work out well I'll always be able to do it it'll be hectic as fuck but yeah for sure and that's where that rush kind of because I can fucking do it I can do it but it's that adrenaline junkie it is but then it's also because and I've been thinking about this a lot it's also because I'm still more connected with the identity piece that um I don't give myself time like the version of me I'm not so aligned with the version of me yet that allows themselves three weeks or two weeks to do the

thing and then when we're getting to the event or whatever the thing is all I have to do is kind of check and refine no I get that but I am making changes because I was exactly the same but I'm trying now but it is like it's like walking through sludge because I'm just like this is so hard because I'm trying to rewire my brain to be the person that actually does things ahead of time and then there's also I don't know if you resonate with this part of things for me it's also this idea that what if I do it three weeks ahead and I give myself the time and space I need, and then I do the thing and it doesn't work out. That's going to feel worse than me having have

done it so last minute and then it didn't work out. Does that, that kind of make sense? It's almost like, um, yeah, it's a, it's a very odd thing. It's like, if i don't fully prepare for something then i can't really be rejected by it yeah yeah but i think we both know is that actually when you do give something you're all and that doesn't work out it doesn't matter because the victory is in doing it that way in the first place sure but again that's all kind of left brain analytical we of course we know it i'm trying at the moment based on what we're speaking about right now trying to find the balance in honoring the way that I like to do things so maybe I don't actually need three weeks to be preparing for something maybe I do need a

shorter space of time but I just need to give myself a little bit longer than I'm giving myself right now because I think that rush and pressure isn't necessarily a bad thing always I think there's good pressure but I think I'm working with how can I still allow myself to have that reward of that pressure because it's a reward there's some kind of reward that's happening there so how can I still do what I need to do and allow myself this space instead of doing it the night before or the same day and can you talk to us a little bit is it the expansion program yes yeah yes so that is a program that I created for coaches for people that want to be coaches because I think oh my goodness we need it I think we have people out there that don't realize what kind of skills they have. There are so many people that I

meet, people that I know, people that I see online that have so much to give in terms of their skills, in terms of their life experience, in terms of their knowledge, in terms of their kind of that, just the energy, the spiritual energy they evoke, but they don't value any of it. They don't feel like any of it is useful. They don't feel like they can help anyone. So I created a program for people that want to become coaches or people that are already coaches but just want to really, really find a way

to put their work out into the world because that's what I've been able to do through my own story, my own journey, through me sharing what I thought was my mess that actually turned out to be the most powerful thing ever I love ever so my my mission is to support people into doing the very same thing for themselves make your messiness your strength oh for sure but that seems to be a theme and I've noticed through all the guests I've had pretty much one way or another is that they've managed

to sort of alchemize their struggle into their strength and I think that's such a powerful thing yes do you feel like you have done that a hundred percent and actually to go back to your thing when you said what did you learn about like your relationship with alcohol there were all sorts of things going on at that time but essentially it was like through those struggles I've managed to find like what makes me strong and actually what I can contribute to the world. Yes. Oh, I love that. Only last thing that I want to talk to you about a little bit before we draw to a close.

Thank you very much for your time. Is perfectionism. Ah, mm-hmm. And how that can be detrimental to our self-worth I think we're living in a time where we're all trying to project this idea in this image of perfection and we're not making room for what makes us human and in a way this sort of false connection that we've got is making us very disconnected from one another and I think it all ties in so I wanted to get your thoughts on that and actually how perfectionism can be a form of

self-sabotage because for me personally as someone that's very messy and like scatty and that's like who I am is is it who you are but there's room for me to be someone else but i could actually have a lot of moments after so i'm like maybe i can't be a tidy person because anything that comes after and this is not just sort of philosophical uh abstract whimsical stuff but it really is tied to the brain. Anything that comes after I am is an identity statement. All right. So it's like that imprint that I was talking about that we create over and over again. So whether we say it with a smile or with a laugh, we're still creating a story, right? Is that actually true? Yeah. And it's when we say these things, most of the time, it doesn't create room for options for a different way of being so when we say things like

oh I'm so and I get a lot of clients that are um say these things to me as well I'm so clumsy I'm so messy I'm so disorganized and then I always say to them is that true who told you that another good question is when did you decide that right if you were to ask yourself when did you decide that you were messy god this is gonna be so useful i'm gonna walk away and be like i could be the tiniest but it's amazing to just kind of explore it and it doesn't mean that you have to be a completely different version of who you are but it's kind of saying how can i make space for something new how can i make space for something new because whatever story that is again whatever actions you take are gonna align with that story so if your

kitchen is showing the you that you're messy it's because you've decided that you're a messy person and this is what a messy person's kitchen looks like right because also recently I've in the last I'd say six months or year so I think my ex-boyfriend used to say that you're so clumsy and I never thought I was clumsy but then then suddenly I was like, I am clumsy. We also have to be mindful of the identity statements that we project onto other people. When we say to other people, you are so this. We have to be so careful about that. Because a lot of the things that we are deciding that we are, we never actually decided them.

People told us. People told you you and in that moment if it's coming from someone that you love someone you admire if you're in a very high emotional state when someone says something it's more likely to stay with you and depending on how young you are you will internalize that as a fact because you're not able to actually process and intellectualize things so when someone you love and you admire them you've probably put them on a pedestal as well different conversation tells you oh my goodness you're so clumsy did you ever know that you were so clumsy and then you're like oh my goodness

oh my oh my goodness i am and you start looking for evidence that you're clumsy and then what happens that's just an identity piece and now you walk out into the world saying, oh, I'm so clumsy. Yeah, because I also remember my parents used to say, like, they were concerned by how sensitive I was growing up. So then I think that that played a huge part in my drinking because that was like a way of desensitizing myself. Because I was like, well, I'm too sensitive to, like, cope in life. So I'll just numb out.

Yeah. But anyways, go back to the perfect I mean you just you have to come back for another chat yeah I would love to but to go back to the perfectionist part because yeah I guess I wouldn't associate myself as a perfectionist because I can be you know messing whatever but actually I realized that I used perfectionism to stop me from getting where I wanted to be so it would always be well I can't have that career or I can't do that I can't achieve that because I'm not this yet but when I am I'm on my way to being this and when I am this right I'll be able to have that but of course you keep kicking the can down the road because

the subconscious will be like okay you have reached this where we said you would need to be but actually we think you need to actually go here before you get it yeah so just keep going and it just becomes this like never-ending journey of never being good enough basically because you're keeping those things out of reach by saying you have to be perfect to get there so perfectionism is this idea that anything less than perfect will never be enough that it's not good enough it's not acceptable it is not okay it is not okay that is pretty much the simplest way to kind of put it and the core belief there is I am not good enough that's what the core belief of perfectionism is. And for people that identify as perfectionists, which I would also recommend, please don't do that.

Because it really creates that cycle of having this identity piece that makes it difficult for you to be anything other than that. But the core belief is that I'm not good enough. So because I'm not good enough, nothing I do is good enough. Nothing I do will ever be good enough. Regardless of how much other people praise you, regardless of how many qualifications you have, regardless of the evidence that you have and the opportunity that you have, that running theme will always be, I am not good enough. And the way that it manifests for a lot of people just kind of on a daily basis is procrastination. It's starting things. I have daily basis is procrastination. It's starting things.

I have a PhD in procrastination. Starting things and not following through. A lot of us are what we call, what I call idea generators. We have so many ideas. We're so creative. So many ideas just come up and we want to follow every single one. But that means we start so many things and we never actually complete we never really follow through or we'll start something and as soon as

it's not as exciting as it was in the beginning we'll give up so yeah that's that's another way that perfectionism shows up and it's also when you do find yourself starting to follow through or when things are going well, you will feel like you need to make things more complex. A lot of it is having, you know, this unrealized potential as well. That's my greatest fear. Really? Yeah. It's unfulfilled potential. Yeah. That's how it can show up for a lot of people. that's how it can show up for a lot of people just knowing that you have so much to give and wanting to but feeling like if I do this it's not going to be good enough and I'm going to be

rejected well what I would do is like I get one person's opinion if it wasn't like a complete oh my god this is amazing I'd be like I'm burying it yeah yeah gosh and my mum would always say she's like how many pie in the sky ideas you can have and I was like loads apparently and my thing is like really struggle to execute them but I know it's from a deeper place of I think you know everything that we're talking about right now yeah what if what if I get rejected what if I put it out there and i get rejected and i work with various successful people public figures that also struggle with this so much they will experience so much success whether it's through recognition or financial success but they still feel like it's not good enough they feel like people are lying to them is everyone lying to me this is not this is not

enough and also how it manifests perfectionism is through never being satisfied with um again oh that one really hit me I have to check this one for myself so when you hit the goals or whatever the markers you set for yourself you're never actually it's not enough you're never able to actually celebrate it you want you want more you feel like you could do better. And then when you reach that, it's still not enough. You see it with things like social media. When people get their first 10,000 followers and then they get 50,000. And I work with people like this.

And they'll get 100,000, 200,000, 250,000, 300,000. It's not enough. Now I'm comparing myself to someone that has a million I don't have enough I call it a hedonic treadmill you just the more you have the more you want and you keep going we never define what enough actually looks like so we're always constantly chasing more what what does enough money look like but this is such a key piece to happiness because in our society we are, and through the media and, you know, capitalism and consumerism, this culture of like more, more, more, never satisfied. We don't check in as individuals and go, okay, rather than just absorbing that advert of like what the perfect life looks like what does it look like for me what does it feel like what are my goals because it's like yours and mine are going to be totally

different and that's the thing we never actually take a moment to be like okay what is happiness and enough for me but otherwise we're just chasing chasing chasing sure some of the things as well and i think there are some practical points with this as well. Number one, I would say do not identify as a perfectionist. There's a very shadowy part to that because that means you set very high standards for yourself, standards that you know that you won't be able to meet. But because you truly believe that what you're capable of is not good enough so you have to go above and beyond and then what happens when you do the thing it will never meet that standard and then now you're in that cycle of shame and feeling less than so I always say stop identifying

as that I think healthy striving is a more I think it's a it's something that's actually supportive of you because you don't have to drop your standards for me I do like things to be done well I want to do things well but at the same time I don't want to imprison myself with those standards I want there to be flexibility for me to be human for people to be human as well and then in terms of performance and putting things out there and doing things I always say that um you need to not expect yourself to be at the top of your game when you're at the beginning of your game because that it's it's so ridiculous that's so powerful because I think that stops so

many people from starting right so ridiculous so yeah that's kind of what I would say but I mean it's it's a it's a conversation, but it's tied to identity. It is. You have to decide that you're not going to wear that as an identity piece. Yeah. That's super powerful. Gosh. We've unpacked a lot.

I feel like I've learned so much. Thank you so much for coming on. This was amazing. Adore you. I think you're amazing thank you thank you for creating us with your powers of wisdom thank you i love this you're you're amazing now i know that 2021 is already off to a challenging start we were all under the impression that corona covid would work on a calendar schedule

and that by 2021 we'd be in the clear and sadly we are not however it still brings with it new opportunities new beginnings and there's a chance to really start thinking about what you want to achieve for the year ahead I like spending January really like getting into work, being focused, getting grounded and setting out my goals for the year. So I suggest you do the same. We're going to have a lot of wisdom in the next episodes of Saturn Returns that will help you do this. And I hope that you took something away from this episode with Africa she's very inspiring and if you want to know one tip that both her and I do is we are both whiteboard fanatics and it's actually something that a lot of people that inspire me that are incredibly disciplined do as well especially

when days sort of can I don't know there's no structure at the moment so having a whiteboard and setting out your day each day gives you that real sense of achievement. And it's all about having actionable steps and achievable goals. So good luck. I'm rooting for all of you. And thank you very much as always for listening. If you want to find more from Africa,

you can find her at Africa Brooke on Instagram and me at Kagi's World. Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production. The producer is Scarlett O'Malley and the executive producer is Kate Taylor. Thank you so much for listening, everybody. And remember, you are not alone. Goodbye.