Saturn Returns with Caggie - 2.2 The Goddess: Anoushka Florence and the Call Of the Feminine

Episode Date: October 12, 2020

In a culture and society that has conditioned us to fill up every moment, the concept of creating space both physically and emotionally to allow ourselves to feel can seem uncomfortable and exposing. Some say this is because we are operating largely from our masculine and neglecting our feminine energy. In this episode Anouska Florence of The Goddess Space talks to Caggie about our need for the balance of both. We are living in a time of the rising feminine, which invites us to access our internal world through sacred space and confront our shadow side along the way, and reclaim our 'magik.' --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome back to Saturn Returns with Kagi. The aim of this podcast is to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. I have been overwhelmed by the response from listeners and very touched by all the messages I've received and reviews you have written. I hope together we can continue to create a community for open conversation that encourages and celebrates vulnerability and authenticity. For that reason, I decided to create a Saturn Materns with Kagi Patreon page where I can share content, thoughts, musings, and create somewhere online where we can have conversations in a safe, cohesive space. Please visit Saturn Maters with Kagi on patreon.com if you'd like to join our growing community.

This was a world that I wanted every woman to know about, to know about the magic that lives inside of us, to know that we can call upon things and we can ask for help and we can walk with the trees and we can listen to the moon and we can dance with the stars. And the world is ours to commune with. The Goddess Space The Goddess Space was created by Anushka Florence, seeking to create beautiful sacred spaces to support, hold and empower women.

I discovered Anushka at the beginning of my own Saturn Returns journey. I was invited to take part in one of her women's circles and I wanted to get her on the podcast to discuss the power of sacred space and sharing it with a community of women, but also about her journey and understanding of the feminine. The understanding of the feminine. The balance of the feminine and the masculine energies is something that has been on my mind recently. I've had my own personal experiences that have encouraged me to soften and surrender and lean into my femininity. Anushka really is a bit of a goddess in every aspect. I mean, she's so beautiful and she has this wonderful soft energy about her. And also the environment that she creates around her is just unbelievable.

We also discuss in this episode magic with a K, which I found very fascinating because it's about reclaiming what magic actually is. But before we get into that, here's Nora, our astrological guide for the season, who will draw parallels from the experiences of our guests and the astrological transit that is Saturn Return. Your identity really gets crystallized during this time. So I feel like Saturn Return really gives you the space to explore that, to explore your own masculine energy, your feminine energy. For example, if I was born as a woman

and I completely identify as a woman, and in my case, I'm a heterosexual, what I did during this time is that I really, really, really wanted to be a woman. I did not want to have any kind of masculine energy. I just wanted to completely immerse myself in that and be extravagant in it. But Saturn Return really gives you the opportunity to explore that part that you identify with,

which could be either. It's allowing me to be who I am, as long as it's authentic. I met with Anushka to record at her home in London, which was like walking into a spiritual paradise. I mean, it felt like we were in a different universe entirely. The goddess space creates really safe and sacred spaces for women to gather, for women to reconnect back to their essence,

to their truth, to their nature. And for the past five years, I've been holding really beautiful women's circles in dreamy spaces. I mean, this is the dreamiest space ever. Just, I mean, you guys can't see, but it is stunning in here. Thank you. You could be an interior designer quite easily. Isn't your mother in here? Yes, my mum's an interior designer quite easily isn't your mother yes my mum's an interior designer so spaces have always been important really important and sacred

to us and in my maternal line you know and I always say my mum creates spaces for people's homes and I create spaces for people's souls I love that yeah has spirituality always been in your family yeah so my family are really religious and so spirituality god something higher than us was instilled into me since i was a little girl and ritual because judaism is embedded with ritual can you tell us a bit about some of the rituals that you practice? Yeah, in Judaism. So every Friday night as a little girl, I used to go and light the Shabbat candles. And in Judaism, Friday represents the feminine. It represents the Shekinah, which is the divine feminine within. And so when you light the candles on Friday night, you do a blessing where you basically welcome the light.

You welcome the divine feminine into the evening into the day into um your life and with that you say a prayer and then you make any wishes for your family or anything you want to call the divine feminine to you can um speak that to her i didn't know that it was connected to the divine feminine well not a lot of people do not even Jewish people but really yeah that ties in perfectly to this conversation because I I went out with um I mean a couple of people that are Jewish actually but my first love was Jewish and I remember going to one of those family Friday night dinners and it's quite intimidating if you're not from that culture and I remember like you know there's the blessing of the bread and stuff and I I had one of the uncle or something joked about me having to like make a speech and I still remember

it to this day as one of the most terrifying moments but I always really gravitated towards the Jewish community because those sort of family values are incredible and like incredibly stabilizing to set you up for life well it's that community it's that village aspect that I think is so missing in today's culture because yeah we I think we are experiencing this pandemic as well of loneliness that's going on and disconnect totally yeah and that's what you know was one of the biggest drives for me to create these spaces. Yeah, it was totally inspired by my feeling of loneliness, beginning my own personal spiritual journey, which was separate to my connection with Judaism.

I was very much seeking a more direct connection to... The divine. The divine. So Judaism didn't actually work for you completely? It does and it did. And, you know, it has supported so much of my own personal journey. But there is definitely a flame inside of me that's seeked for something more. So my journey has really been about finding the interconnectedness of spirituality and the

relationship back to nature which I feel holds all the truths we need but is often the last place that we go to find it what took you on that path was there a specific moment that suddenly shifted everything yeah you're looking like there is yeah I mean it's you know I hear this story a lot in different forms but it was a it was a big breakup how old were you I was 23 and I was with an amazing guy and we were traveling on really different paths and I didn't want to believe that we weren't going to journey together. But everything within me was telling me it wasn't the right way. And I think, you know, I always attribute it

to the first time that I really listened to that voice within. And it was a point where I felt like I had to do something. I had to take action. You couldn't not. I couldn't not listen. And I felt this calling to go and climb a mountain. Wow. So I booked this trip to Mount Kilimanjaro and he ended up coming

with me. And I remember just climbing as the sun was rising and half the sky was black with stars. And I was watching the sky as it kind of changed and I looked behind me and he was always just those few steps behind and when we got to the top I was in awe looking over the most magnificent landscape I'd ever seen in my life and he was so tired you know and I realized then that it was this this sign that it was just not aligned we weren't aligned it wasn't going to work so so that was probably a test really for both you and him and it's funny because upon reflection I now hear so much about this metaphor of climbing a mountain because if you are at the bottom and you're looking all the way up to the top of the mountain,

the journey to get there seems unattainable. Whereas our guides would tell us one step at a time, you just put one foot in front of the other and then you're there and everything makes sense. And so that for me was the catalyst. And then I came home, I ended it with him. and then I came home I ended it with him I quit my job I was putting on events for kind of music fashion art spaces which was really cool it was definitely you know creating spaces as part of my nature but it was so temporary so I decided to quit and I left my home all in the space of a week wow yeah and you were really young to do that that's very bold and brave because I think a lot of people listening as well we have those those moments where you hear that quiet voice because it is a quieter voice much quieter voice and sometimes it's only a whisper and we actually have to create the space

and silence to hear it but because we it's not matching up with the the facts we have around us necessarily to take those steps to trust it is terrifying to a lot of people because we feel like we need to know where we're going all the time and life doesn't work like that and i'm learning every day and every week with every experience that it's more like a maze or like a river and it's just gonna meander in its own way and I have to flow with it and something will happen that will suddenly set me off in a complete different course that will feel horrible and turbulent and unsettling but then it will redirect me towards something that I would never have discovered had I not been pushed in that direction so I'm really trusting that now rather

than I think before I would stay stuck in a place of victimhood and hold on to that narrative and like then create so much resistance that actually internalized into and manifested into sort of depression or anxiety because I was just scared of letting go so it sounds like from a really young age you kind of learned to let go I learned to let go I learned to create space um but then I was met with the shadow side you know about that the more space that create, the more you allow yourself to journey to places within you that you didn't know existed. And that's why I think a lot of people fear space. They fear what lurks.

In the shadows. In the shadows, what lurks behind that corner that you have breathed into or that you have opened or unlocked inside of you. Yeah. Can you tell us a bit about what came up? Yeah, so a lot of sadness, a lot of anger, a lot of judgment on who I was and who I'd forgotten. It was really a meeting of all the parts of me that as a little girl, as a teenager, I told weren't enough. You denied. I denied. And so when I began my spiritual journey,

a lot of that was coming out of victimhood was coming out of blame was lifting my perspective to recognize how these experiences had shaped me but also to acknowledge that there was a grief that needed to take place in order to fully um be sat in that space authentically the grieving of self the grieving of self the grieving of separation so my parents got divorced when I was really young how young were you five and noticing and becoming aware of the parts of me that I had disconnected from it's reclaiming those parts of yourself that you had sort of cut away essentially and acknowledging the toxicity that you've carried through suppressing them. So whether it was my bad eating habits that I had adopted and my struggles with how I compared

myself, how I judged myself, how I lost myself. And at the beginning, I didn't even know what it was. I just remember crying for days. And it's something in that as well not having to pinpoint the exact moment where you felt that but actually just feeling it sitting in it all sometimes we're so we're so intellectual about things that we're trying to like grasp like well what does this mean what is this feeling where does this come from rather than actually just accepting and sitting with it which is a hugely profound and progressive experience if you can get to a point and it's I mean I don't know I can't speak for your experience but would you say it felt like the there was just a slight tipping point in the sense that you were in your

worth enough and on your spiritual journey enough that you were able to hold that space for the past version of you yes but it has definitely taken time to get there did you have a structure around your friendship and family that supported it or did that fall to the wayside a little bit it fell people didn't understand me you know people didn't understand my choices people didn't understand why I was sad in their eyes I had everything and so you know this was my fault or this was the result of my choices my actions and that was when I really realized that I needed something more to support me and the beauty of creating space is that I believe you become a vessel and you become magnetic towards what you need at that time

because you have put your trust in the universe and the universe then responds and with that came a tribe of wise women how did they come into your life um it was different but they just appeared is all I can say yeah and I noticed them it's strange because I get a lot of people that will message me saying I want to go on you know this path but I'm scared about losing friendships and the right people not coming in how do you know that they will and I was like they just do and again I really think it's the courage of your conviction to make these certain choices to create the space and I know it's hard and I know it feels like well there's a necessary I believe social exile that you experience and you have to trust that space in between and that is terrifying yeah because you have to go from where you've been you can't just get to where you're going and that's a

lot of the reason as well why I started creating these spaces, these women's spaces, because I realized so many women around me were going through the spiritual journey, were going through the process. And we were all doing it alone. Because it always starts alone, like you said at the beginning. It's that thing of we have to make it go yeah but then I think what happens is that you make that dive you make that leap and then you think it's always going to be like that you think it's always going to be on our own and I think what what's amazing about what you've realized and what you've created is that's not true and actually there's so much much beautiful energy when you share that space together. And that's really potent and powerful.

It was like with the birth. I had an amazing doula that I work with. I just gave birth to a little baby girl. And the doula that I was working with really reflected the birthing journey back to me as in when you are in birth, there comes a point in birth where you need to separate from everything around you and everyone will be there to welcome you home

but you need to go out there by yourself and I had that experience in my own birth where I knew that I had to go into another dimension in order to receive her and bring her back and then when I returned I was met with my partner with my doula with my midwife with my baby all celebrating the journey that I'd been on and for me that is community that is this tribal energy that we have lost and completely lost touch with it yeah these women's spaces these sacred spaces that you can find yourself in they do just that they require you to go there by yourself no one can sit in your grief for you no one can heal your wounds for you no one can move through that emotion for you but what we can do is be there to welcome you back on your by each other's side and that is the true power of all of this work is really

returning back yeah and that's what inspires me most about the feminine in order to understand it all we have to do is look both within and outside of us because it is mirrored in so much what I see around me in nature what I see in so many of the women that I've worked with's journeys because this word I think especially at the moment the word feminine is getting thrown around a lot of course there's been this huge me too movement there's been a massive cultural shift that's happening and then the feminine I think gets brushed into that but what does the feminine actually mean to you so for me the feminine is really about the the inner world it's the journey we take within us to find that inner sanctuary that inner inner voice, that inner space.

The masculine, in contrast for me, just to kind of make that clear, is a more outward portrayal of energy. And we both sexes possess both energies. Yes, exactly. So if we can start to think about how often we're taught to go within, how much time we spend in our inner world, do we even know what our inner world is, we can begin to understand that we've been living in a very dominated masculine energy space, which focuses on our bodies, our outwardness, what we see around us, what we do, instead of the feminine, which is the yin of going inwards it is intuition the inner knowing so at this time that we're born into we're born into the feminine rising yes and that's why as women who have chosen to be born into this lifetime right now, a lot of our mission is to rebalance the masculine and feminine. But campaigns like the Me Too and feminism,

you know, it's like any movement. You need to go a little bit extreme in order to recalibrate. And again, that is just another metaphor for our own personal journeys. You know, when we suddenly realize something, come into an awakening or in a realization about something, a loss, a grief, we have to go through that act of shedding, whether that's screaming, whether that's crying, whether that's expressing all the emotion that we've been storing because we've seen through an illusion right now. that we've been storing because we've seen through an illusion right now we almost need to have that out there in order to return in order to come back it can feel like a conflicting energy because you know anger is very associated with the masculine and actually you know that has its own issues within society that men are allowed to express that emotion and that's about the only thing that's socially acceptable you know and that is a huge problem in itself but I think for me a lot of things that are coming up recently is like how do I soften into my feminine side because as a defense

mechanism which I think has been a necessary tool for a lot of women in a lot of ways we lean into that more masculine nature whether that's in in our careers in our relationship and to find that actually there's a quieter sort of power in that softness seems contradictory in a way and it's something that I'm learning by doing but it feels um unfamiliar yeah so I guess your sort of space and your ethos is really about leaning into that subtle strength yes but it's also honoring when the masculine needs to be expressed and not denying that either so I went through a really kind of um big journey with suddenly all around me was a feminine and I became too feminine I was too much in this inner world I stopped stepping out into the outside world I became a real

introvert recluse you know I have that ability too yes and it's amazing and beautiful and nourishing and so feminine and so sweet and sacred, but it wasn't serving me because again, we need the balance of both. And so when I advocate the feminine, I don't advocate the feminine for everything. I know when I need my masculine, I know when I'm working and I'm taking a beautiful creation that I visioned and I need to bring it out into the world. I need my masculine energy in order to do that. I know when I'm dealing with grief and loss that the masculine energy of anger, of movement, of embodiment will really support me and serve me. So for me, it's more about becoming familiar with the difference

between masculine and feminine energies, and then you being in authority and power of what you call upon when you need it. This might sound like a bit of a silly question, but why, if both sexes possess both energies, why is the masculine tied up to the man and the feminine to a woman? Why is the masculine tied up to the man and the feminine to a woman? So I believe, again, this is what we choose to kind of incarnate into. When you are born a woman or choose to be a woman in this lifetime, you are embodying a bit more feminine than masculine. And so you might need to get to know the masculine better or get to know the feminine better in order to level that up within you. So I feel that as I identify as a woman in this life, my need for the feminine will be a little bit stronger

than my need for the masculine. But the masculine is still reverent and it's still sacred and it's still an amazing ally and tool that i can use to work with and i see the same in men you know a man that identifies as a man in this lifetime he will hold a deeper connection to the masculine or his journey will be to learn more about the masculine and use the feminine as a tool and an ally because i'm not fulfilled if i'm only in my feminine or if i'm only in my masculine because there's and again this is my experience there's a slight coming undone when we lean into our feminine space and self that can feel even though on one side it's very like grounding and and beautiful and feels like you're accessing a lot of wisdom

you feel a little scary because i think we've built up a lot of stuff that's like don't let that part of ourselves be shown or or held space for I think more importantly either by ourselves or by another person or by a partner that can be a very terrifying thing yeah how did this affect you calling in your the partner that you have now so because I wasn't in my true alignment before I began my spiritual journey, I was calling in people who are matching me on this lower vibrational level. The minute I began to journey on my path, meet myself in places that again, I didn't even know existed and really begin to, you know, form a sense of more deeply who I was, I believe that I called that in and it matched me on my level. I always say, you know, you're never ready. You're never done with the spiritual

journey. So it's not about waiting until you're perfect or waiting until everything's aligned and you've healed all wounds and you've gotten rid of the trauma it doesn't happen because as i'm sure you know once you move through a layer another layer reveals itself so you're gonna be waiting a really long time if you wait until you believe you're ready so can you explain a little bit about magic which you spell with a k with a k yes and also like what that means to you so this word magic which was inherently a feminine word got taken by the patriarchy and you know we type in magic in google typically you see magic tricks you see pulling a rabbit out of a top hat all these things are about deception and illusion rather than magic with a k which we are reclaiming um to be the

magic that is created when you communicate with the divine i love that so when i yeah i was calling in these kind of women into my life one of them who appeared was a witch how do you know she was a witch well she told me I was like did she have a hat on you know the little girl in me was beyond excited and practical magic it's my favorite film of all time I absolutely love it and you know the kind of 20 something year old young woman was really freaked out so I first met her because I was working for this events company and I was looking for an astrologist and I called this number that I found on google and the first time it rang the wind was so strong that the the phone hung up so I tried again and again I could kind of hear a faint sound of hello, but the wind was so strong again that the phone went down.

And then the third time I called and she must have gone somewhere where it was less windy. And I just heard the most powerful sentence of my life, which said, you know, when the wind blows that strong, it means that two witches are meeting. I just call shivers. Every time I say it. And I had shivers run down me and I said oh and and I explained to her what I was trying to do in this very kind of weirdly corporate you know voice like I'd like to hire you as an astrologist well and she had no idea who was calling no and well she did clearly yeah she did yeah um she said listen why don't you come over to my house and we can talk about it so I said okay so she gave me her address and it was right on the corner of Hampstead Heath

and I stepped into her her flat and it was like something out of a book I mean it was dusty bookshelves filled with magic with a k everywhere it It was tarot cards. It was herbs hanging from iron poles. It was astrology maps just charted everywhere. Sounds amazing. It was. It was plush purple velvet throws over sofas. And the smell, it was like potions had been brewing in there. And I sat down and I remembered talking to her again in this

kind of weirdly corporate voice oh well I think you know we should work together and and she was like you know I'd love to gift you your chart being read um and I thought okay great I was always into spirituality as a kid but again I'd kind of lost my connection to the esoteric to the unseen and she did my chart for me I was mesmerized by her and I began to work with her every Monday I would meet her at her flat after that and I asked if she'd just teach me everything and so she taught me about the moon cycle she taught me about her she taught me about numerology about tarot about astrology she basically uncovered to me the ancient feminine arts wow which is what magic is magic with a k and we began to walk the wheel of the year together

and this was how I formed the circles so I would learn about the hidden messages and the secrets in every season in every moon cycle as I walked them with her so we would literally physically walk um and we would see how nature began to shift and change and how that so she was hugely instrumental in your journey huge hugely she was your teacher she was my teacher you're a pisces from a pisces rising pisces sun aries moon ah it's a lot of pisces and did she reveal a lot of about your personality and about that yeah yeah so I know you work with astrology as well and astrology is especially on my spiritual journey it was a way that I could I guess a way that my mind could be at rest 100% yeah and it allowed my soul to lean in more because my mind could just focus on, you know, these facts that were revealing themselves to me based on the stars and the planets.

The interconnectedness of it all and that exchange between that outer world and what's going on internally. And I think astrology is such an amazing demonstration of that. Absolutely. It seems to be that it attracts a far more female audience than it does. Astrology. Yeah. Yeah, because I think men are still culturally uncomfortable with the unseen. They need facts.

They need more linear, logical rational realms i feel personally astrology offers that but i still think that yeah the undercurrent of the esoteric nature of it creates that separation a little bit and so then she gave you this sort of courage to to step into your own thing and really start cultivating this community yeah well I think more than anything I saw a new world with her and this world was something that I felt I couldn't just keep a secret for myself this was a world that I wanted every woman to know about to know about the magic that lives inside of us, to know that we can call upon things and we can ask for help and we can walk with the trees and we can listen to the moon and we can dance with the stars and the world is ours to commune with.

I was never taught that at school. I was never taught that by my parents. There was no way that I could know that until she came along. And so once I learned this, I felt an obligation to create spaces where I could start to share this information with others. And that's how the Women's Circles were born. Were formed. That's amazing. Yeah. Do you think that that is, in terms of astrology as well,

that that is happening in our time right now? Yes. I mean, I think not to get too much into it, but just the events that have taken place this year, this calling inwards, this lockdown, this isolation that we're all being called to step back into our homes the home is the feminine the connection back to ourself the the calling to sit with ourselves to have no distractions of the outside world this is the call of a feminine and each of us is being asked to sit in that space right now to be comfortable in that space um and for me that is the reclamation yeah and we're being forced into it we're being forced because clearly we haven't been listening enough before wow that's powerful and looking in it like that yeah and i also think the need for sacred spaces is going to rise as we come out of this time and suddenly people have been forced to sit with

things they didn't even know were there yeah and so for anyone hearing this who has the ability to create safe spaces for people i believe this is going to be needed more than ever um as we know mental health is at its peak and it's you know that's terrifying yeah this is what we're being called to do to to walk each other home I love that to walk each other home I think that's a beautiful thing to end on thank you thank you so much I really enjoyed this conversation and I've learned a lot thank you very much I love this conversation with Anushka and I honestly learned so much. I think we are in a time of reawakening and coming back to our true selves. Trusting in our innate wisdom and communities and circles of women have always been a powerful practice for this. Perhaps as a suggestion to you

listening you could create one of your own with your friends. Making them alongside a full moon can be a really powerful thing. You can find Anushka at The Goddess Space on Instagram, and Nora, if you want a reading, at Stars Incline, and me at Kagi's World. Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production. The producer is Deborah Dudgeon, and the executive producer is kate taylor this podcast is growing through word of mouth so please continue to share it with your friends

or anyone you think might find it useful it would also mean a lot if you're enjoying it to leave us a review this helps us get discovered by more like-minded people and please do check out our patreon page where i will be showing exclusive saturn returns content for the saturn returns community thank you for listening and being part of this journey and remember you are not alone goodbye