Saturn Returns with Caggie - 3.11 Lost and Found with Freya Ridings

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

Musician and songwriter Freya Ridings joins Caggie this week to talk about the importance of remaining true to yourself, even when others tell you to change. Her hit single Lost Without You stole the heart of the nation and catapulted her to overnight fame after it appeared on hit reality show Love Island, but the song had been years in the making. Freya discusses her childhood and its influence on her music and writing, how music has been an outlet for her when she felt like an outsider, and how she ultimately used her pain as rocket fuel to propel her career. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. The moment you allow yourself to be bad and just honest is the moment that normally something better comes out and you're like, ah, basically dig for mud and then you can sit for the gold later. My guest today is musician and singer Freya Ridings, who you may know from her hit songs Lost Without You and Castles. Her music is thoughtful, ethereal, nostalgic

and pulls on the heartstrings of its listeners. Freya comes from a very creative and supportive family of musicians and actors and began playing open mic nights while she was still a child before attending the Brit school. Her big breakthrough came with her breakup song Lost Without You which in summer 2018 appeared on the TV show Love Island and was chosen by Radio 1 DJ Scott Mills as his tune of the week. Freya is really open and happy to share her vulnerabilities and in this episode we discuss heartbreak, confidence, creativity and how friendship groups change through our lives. Before we get to Freya, let's check in with our astrological guide, Nora. We talk a lot about the personal growth we go through during our Saturn return.

We go through it by way of reality checks, added responsibilities, or simply trying to master the art of adulting. Another important aspect of navigating this part of our lives is not only to connect with our root chakra, which relates to our sense of safety, our physical body, the base element of our feminine nature, and anything that stabilizes our willpower so that we can move into the world feeling more secure with ourselves. It's also equally as important to cultivate our sacral chakra, which among other elements relates to creativity, our personal boundaries, our sensuality or sexuality. When going through a time of pressure like Saturn return, the best outlet astrologically is to develop our root chakra firstly and secondly our sacral chakra before we get to the next level

which is the solar plexus. We develop our sacral chakra by exploring our sensuality, sexuality but also our creativity. As we enter our 20s we tend to forget about the creative outlets we used to have, the ones that we might have admired in others but never learned to cultivate for ourselves because we get consumed in a routine that almost stifles the sensual or creative part of ourselves. When we engage in any creative activity, be it journaling or writing, painting, sculpting, dancing, creating a project, or even simply being aware of the amazing creation that we ourselves are, we slowly sink back into our bodies and become aware again of not only everything that stops us from doing this, but in turn it makes us aware of

our personal boundaries and which noise we need to cut out in our lives in order to be able to reconnect with our creative, sensual selves. So a beautiful way, an inherently feminine way to navigate Saturn Return is to re-explore our sensuality and creativity by strengthening first the root chakra and secondly the sacral chakra. Freya, welcome to the Saturn Returns podcast. Thank you so much for having me Kagi, I'm really thrilled to be here, thank you for having me. I'm so thrilled that you're here. There's so many questions that I want to ask you. I think you're just an incredible artist and songwriter and you've done an amazing, amazing job. The main thing that I want to discuss with you is because I kind of had this idea. How old are you, by the way the way I'm 26 so from the sort of

beginning I guess because most people your like blow-up song was lost without you and that just went like crazy and everyone just went mad about it but I want to know kind of the origins of that song of that experience that caused you to write that song and like what that process was like for you like how old were you when you actually wrote it so lost without you has actually been it's such a incredible journey to have actually been on because I wrote the song when I was 19 when you were 19 wow I know and I actually I played it all around open mic nights all around North London no way um for like a good five years really really, before I even got discovered, found by the indie label that I was so lucky to eventually sign to. So for me, it was, it was a real sort of roller coaster of, you know, trying to hold on to who I was like authentically as a songwriter without, you know, changing or because it was, it was tempting at times to be like, I should try and be like someone else.

But I was like, at the end of the day, sitting down playing sad songs on the piano is who I am so I should just actually hold on to it it's something that people experience in in all you know walks of life but I think music particularly highlights this sort of reflection of who you are but people also asking you to change because it can yeah you can literally sit down with someone and I'm, maybe you've experienced it where they're like, okay, you need to like be like this person or change your name or change your look or like change your style.

And the hardest part is just holding on through that storm of people being like, but if you just changed it, it's like, because the thing that in the end people actually resonated with, which I, I never expected on such a massive scale actually. Was that vulnerability? Like it was, yeah, it was the genuine vulnerability of it and it was a genuine song that I'd written alone really heartbroken at my piano in my parents front room did you have to go through a lot of I know dark night of the soul sort of journeys in terms of navigating hugely hugely oh massively I think

because um so I went to the Brit school when I was 16 to 18 and I struggled sort of hugely with, you know, just sort of being away from home, but also trying to write songs after school. I was incredibly uncool at school, which was quite, you know, at the time, heartbreaking because I love people and I love, you know, connecting with people, but I'd be like, does anyone want to write a song like after school and they'd be like oh no that's horrible no um so looking back I'm like I'm so grateful that instead of that you know pain it kind of turned into a rocket fuel for me that I just put into you know turning up and playing songs after school every single day yeah um and then continuing that after school into playing open mic nights every

night and sort of meeting a community of people who I felt really understood me which was so single day yeah um and then continuing that after school into playing open mic nights every night and sort of meeting a community of people who I felt really understood me which was so exciting because I've never had that before yeah um but it was such a ridiculous journey that I look back on I'm like I mean how how crazy lucky was I to actually you know hold on to one song and have that be the song that actually got me discovered yeah you said something really beautiful and I think that it's something that I've noticed seems to be a unanimous theme amongst the guests that I have on the show. Is that they, in some way, kind of take their pain and alchemise that and make it into something beautiful. And I think anyone that has a creative outlet, be it songwriting or art, it shows that you can make your struggles your strength.

And I think that you perfectly demonstrate how you did that through your songwriting or art it shows that you you can make your struggles your strength and I think that you perfectly demonstrate how you did that through your songwriting that's beautiful I love that that alchemy of it is yeah there's there's a lot of pain and I think you know anyone that didn't struggle a little bit at school it's like you know when I have young people like DM me on Instagram being like I'm learning how to sing and write songs but I'm like bullied at school I was like these will be some of the hardest years that hold on to who you are because it's that'll be the thing that when you leave school will suddenly flip and become you know your complete identity and soul and you're gonna totally rock it so um yeah I love that I love hearing that that's true for other artists as well and I think to to use that because I um I didn't have like a super hard time at school but I definitely felt

often quite an outsider and like I'd always write poetry and stuff and I don't know there's something in that heartbreaking time like throughout being a teenager that you create such a tapestry of like work that you can always draw upon throughout your life and even you know music has a beautiful ability to transport us like back in time and it makes someone's experience our experience too and I guess like with yeah with your songs you've really managed to tap into people's emotional state in in that capacity which has had quite a profound impact on people did you have any idea when you wrote those songs that they would become what they have become to other people no I had no idea

I think because I've been writing for so long just especially in isolation just in school piano rooms or like at home for me it was very much something done in isolation so the fact that when it exploded it exploded so far I was like this is just beyond anything you could like imagine this is like wildest dream kind of level hearing a crowd hearing thousands of people sing back the lyrics that you wrote heartbroken on your own at you know festivals or whatever it was just absolutely spine tingling so to go to go back to the story of the song what if you don't mind sharing it, what was that actual experience about? Would you mind telling us? relationship that I'd ever had and realizing that they weren't going to come back and trying to adjust to a life without that person was was shockingly hard realizing that I was going to have to kind of go into the the next few wilderness years completely on my own was quite alarming

because we'd had such a a long and really transformative relationship for me it was like you know my first love so nothing you know the first cut is the deepest as they say nothing can compare to that first love experience because you nothing can prepare you because you also don't know you're going to be okay that's the thing you genuinely think you might die so yeah any other heartbreak doesn't really compare in the same way but I think that song some songs come out kind of in chunks but this one came out fully formed and I remember being like I just I feel like I got taken over by some kind of spirit guide you channeled it I was like damn yeah I always shut my eyes when I sing and like

sometimes people find it really weird in sessions but I always have my right eye closed like a pirate I always get mascara stains on my right eye under my eye but then I found out that that's the side of your brain that you know can really go deep into that safety state and really visualize and sort of you feel you don't think I think that's the hardest place to get to but when you get there it's definitely the most therapeutic to kind of get it out that way and when you that was how it came out when you write you do you read music or do you just play? I've never been able to read music. I'm like extremely dyslexic.

So at school, I struggled massively with like academic, you know, vibes. I couldn't really get in with that. But if you want to write, you know, pop songs, then it's not as important. It's more important to kind of feel it and listen to your inner kind of compass. Absolutely. And I think that that's a really important message because it can dishearten a lot of people when they think oh I'll never hugely never be like yeah I'll never sing like that person or I'll never reach those notes the

less you have sometimes those limitations lead you to having to be more creative and are actually a huge blessing in disguise like I was so lucky that all I had was a piano because at the time you know if I'd have had lots of other options or different things to sort of do I could have got lost on that rabbit hole yeah and you can get really distracted instead of having to hold on to writing yeah in the production aspect of things and I think that that goes back I'm almost allergic to it like going into the studio like I'm I'm just happiest at a piano if we kind of get into all the you know different sounds and beats I like I just absolutely hate it I it's something that I really need to learn to love but at the same time I love the simplicity of piano and guitar yeah and I think you know that

is your sort of USP so you should you should stick to that as I've sort of got a bit older I've kind of learned that listening to my gut and some things bring out the best in me and some things don't like I never hold a pen like I never actually write down the lyrics I just say them so for me I feel like such a fraud as like a writer because I don't hold a pen but then I was like I guess you don't have to actually write them down to be a writer. So what is the kind of process for you like in in the songwriting? So sitting down at a piano any piano I find that every piano has a different soul um but having a place where no one can hear you sing is hugely important for me because it's almost like a verbal kind of stream of consciousness that's kind of akin to writing your diary every night it's that kind of honest the hardest part is stopping thinking I think

sometimes when you're thinking too hard that's when the creativity kind of shuts off but when you let go of the idea that it has to be anything especially good like that is the death of it but if you can imagine that it's it just needs to basically dig for mud and then you can sit for the gold later I think sometimes people are like they want gold straight away and I can fall into that trap I'm like I just want it to be good and it's like sometimes you have to allow yourself the moment you allow yourself to be bad and just honest is the moment that normally something better comes out and you're like ah yeah so firstly I wanted to say when you had written a song and you started touring it did you know you found gold or not no I remember the day I wrote it and we went to like a friend's um

I think it was my little god sister's birthday party and they have a piano in their house kind of hidden away I think it was after they were cutting the cake and everything and I snuck off and like was playing this song that I'd just written and my dad came in and was like what's that and I was like oh I just I did it like you know this afternoon before we turned up and I was just having a bit of a a dark dark moment and he was like oh my god and I was like no it's just like it's just another one basically I tend to write songs in little clusters and I think there were two other songs that I wrote in that little burst I remember being like yeah but there's other ones as well he's like no no no there's that one and I was like nah it's fine like because I was just so used to just writing lots

at that time and they were probably even because it was related to that experience. So you don't necessarily know which one is going to cut through. I remember thinking I would never show anyone that one. I remember thinking specifically, I will never show anyone that one. It's like the songs that you say, I'm never going to show anyone this one. Because they feel too raw, emotionally raw. It feels like a page of your diary you just don't want to show someone and then those seem to be the ones people want to see most so there's a

level of like courage that I didn't know that I would have to have to get over that that leap of faith because the second you know that someone likes something or people like stuff it's easy but you don't know at that time they can be like that's terrible but that's your raw piece of heart on a page and you're like that that's scary showing people new songs to me is the most terrifying thing still to this day but once you're kind of on the other side of it it's um it's just absolutely a joy and would you say you know writing lost without you was that around your biggest heartbreak yeah a hundred percent that was that was something that I couldn't really fathom because for me it was just it was the norm that it was like me and that person forever and had been for a really long

time like you didn't think you would recover from it I really didn't I didn't and I think looking back you know every time I play that song it's hard not to get like slightly emotional because you just get taken back to that place yeah absolutely but do you like going to that place I do I love it I think it's kind of very therapeutic and I do I think like a lot of artists like we have a huge melancholic streak and to get that out in the art is so therapeutic it means that I can be genuinely very joyful in my life and very like you know always sort of laughing and happy because I I'm lucky enough to get it out in a really kind of productive way and it doesn't you know sit within me and kind of rot it kind of it gets out and becomes really you know healthy. Totally and I think that people sometimes

think if people write really sad songs they must be sad all the time but like you say it's oh totally the other way around I have so many uncles who are like heavy metal musicians and they are some of the loveliest people on the planet. They get out all their aggression. And I feel like people are always confused. They're like, why are you and your team always like actually howling with laughter and like crying with laughter? I'm like, because we get it all out, you know? That place that you get to go to when you're transported. I mean, I don't know, maybe it is exactly the same, but I almost think that the song itself and time

creates like a fantasy version of it that you can kind of exist in as well. It's like, you know how we romanticise the past? And I think that that's why music is so beautiful and it touches so many people in such a profound way because even if something were tragic and in its experience when we listen to certain songs there's something like romantic and wonderful about it all over again there's something so euphoric about playing a song that you wrote thinking that no one would hear it

and having thousands of people sing it with you is like you know from that intense isolation to that intense feeling of you know from someone that really didn't have a lot of friends growing up to have thousands of people want to like sing with you it's just I love singing with people so for me that's just the highest of all highs really did you all those years when you were doing those you know touring around London and doing all those gigs and stuff did you feel comfortable in yourself and as a performer oh no hell no my mom actually had to like I came back from a gig that I did when I was about 18 and we literally she was like right so we're going to practice like you looking up at the audience we're going to practice like you know when you leave actually saying hi to people at school because I would literally just keep my head down I wouldn't say

anything I was cripplingly shy it was really hard um and also like I was going through a huge kind of transformation where I was quite like large at school like I was quite overweight and it was really hard um and also like I was going through a huge kind of transformation where I was quite like large at school like I was quite overweight and it was you know basically a defense mechanism that I hid behind and I think I had always planned on doing this like chrysalis coming out of my shell moment and I did when I left school I like I kind of did my little glow up that I'd worked so hard for and I was like I feel like I'm ready to go and take on the world now that was a huge struggle at the same time I think people think it was just a musical journey, but there was, there was many elements of it. I didn't lose weight because I knew that someone

was like telling me to do, which was actually bizarre. No one actually told me to do that, but it was something that I knew that I wanted to do to have the energy to, you know, pursue the thing I loved. And it does, touring takes so much energy. It's like a sport. And I just love, I love that. And like, you and I just love I love that and like you know staying like mentally really healthy and like trying to stay physically really healthy and looking after my voice like these things that I like really treasure now because they weren't the norm you know back when I started yeah and they keep you grounded absolutely hugely I mean people on our tour bus after the shows are kind of quite amazed that we're kind of more like a tea and biscuit

kind of bus and yeah you know there's no there's no alcohol we're not really like drinking no so I love that you know yeah I love that that sounds like my kind of bus and what um yeah I think you'd love it I would love it what has been your sort of journey with this because I'm sure touring can take its toll on your mental health because you know you're changing locations all the time you have this moving family but also like you know you have this audience your center stage you have all this attention all this adrenaline and then suddenly you're like you know back on the road it must it must be very a strange it's very loud and very quiet at the same time yeah it's a huge adjustment and

when I first started doing it I didn't have management and I think that was a a big mistake looking back because you need to have someone who is defending you as like a long term playing the long game because if you if you don't you will burn up so quickly and you also really need to have a family and friends back home that ground you really really well there are some nights your voice is so tired that you physically can't talk to people and it's super isolating. And you have to think about the fact you've got five more shows and you just basically have to see it like a marathon that you're just lucky to be part of. That's why those years in the wilderness playing open mic nights, feeling super lost at the time, painful. But looking back,

I'm so grateful because it allows me to have a huge perspective. And what are some of the tools that you have in place to kind of keep you grounded? And, you know, I love this question. So I write a diary every night and I have done since I was 16. So it's 10 years. Honestly, that has been the biggest transforming factor of my life. When I feel overwhelmed by the whole sort of the whole thing, I just kind of come back to my mum has so many different phrases but we love there's a Serena Williams quote that's like play the point don't play the tournament and I absolutely adore it because when I get overwhelmed I'm like all I'm doing is one show one day one session one you know one thing and then at the end of the day you write your diary and then that grounds me um and also in the morning like a play-by-play of like this is what happened today okay yeah and also an

emotional sort of just to keep tabs on yourself and to see you know if you start to spiral or if you start to fall off the wagon with things that I have my little stickers that I try and aim for these tiny little goals every day like some like sometimes it's like 15 minutes minimum for like some sort of exercise I really really love doing pilates like on the road I do a thing called ballet beautiful that I absolutely adore and then there's you know just being conscious of like what I eat and then there's how if I've enjoyed playing music or not that day for some days you're just doing promo and you don't get to perform play a piano for quite a few days in a row so sometimes having

a ukulele in my bag and I'll just play a few chords just to remind myself that I do I do love it yeah so like having the actual singing and playing something as part of your I guess self-love and self-care routine essentially beyond beyond the professional aspect to it yeah that was quite a recent one that I've added because I was I was like oh of course I just do this but it's not it's actually an intentional consciously enjoying the music that I actually want to play yeah and it's a good sometimes it becomes a job and I forget it's a hobby as well yeah actually and I think it's it sounds like it's really important that that you know it reconnects you to your soul so it doesn't it doesn't become like a job or something that you just do

it's like no this was that yeah why this is the why yeah when you perform do you suffer from performance anxiety ever oh yeah hugely it's absolutely terrifying and I think also the longer you go without doing it the scarier the next show becomes and when you go on stage does something you know because you said in stage, does something, you know, because you said in your songwriting that essentially you kind of channel something, is it similar when you perform? Three songs in, the nerves dissipate. But for the first three songs, especially for big, like,

big headline shows, you are so nervous, really, because you're like, oh, my God, you know, thousands of people have taken the time out of their day. You know, you just want to give them the best possible show you can but I think also getting lost in it and remember that they haven't come to see you stressed out they've come to see you feel something and really you know my mum always has this saying before I go out on stage or not every time but I always say it to myself and it's connection not perfection and that really helped that really helps ground me because I'm like,

people haven't come to see you sing these songs note perfect. They've come to see you sing these songs and mean it. That's a trap that, you know, a lot of people fall into in so many different capacities of like their internal critic kind of taking over being like, oh, are you going to get this note right? Has that ever sabotaged your performances or are you quite good at like handling that I think that's something that only comes with time and that only comes with doing it so much because I used to have that internal critic every time I played in a pub and you know filled with people because that's hard you know those people haven't come to see you they don't know who you are you know turning up to play a headline headline gig with songs that already you know

people resonate with that's just a joy but there are some nights where you know you're worried about losing your voice you're worried about getting sick and those nights are the nights where I'm like you know I turn to my like honey and lemon and like watercress and raspberries and like all of the things that you know and faux faux and bone broth are amazing faux has saved me on tour many many times really you just have to take it very seriously because you're like you're holding up a whole show with one very you know small muscle in your throat so for me learning to like take that very seriously um has been a hugely calming effect on the whole touring process and when that song did you know that it was going to be on love island oh no no one tells you

anything i'm not gonna lie they really don't and did you know that scott mills was picking it as his was it the record of the week no we were just we were out in america and we were like i think in I'm not going to lie. They really don't. And did you know that Scott Mills was picking it as his, was it the record of the week? No, we were just, we were out in America and we were like, I think in the back of a very small van and someone was like, oh, something's happened like with Scott Mills. And I was like, wait, the Scott Mills like on Radio 1. And there was just this moment where it was so surreal.

Did those experiences change who you are as a person? and did they suddenly make you feel differently about yourself or did it feel like almost like a different entity that existed in the world and then there was you um yeah I think that the personal growth was always hugely connected to the music and I've never thought I didn't have a lot of confidence so I think I still don't believe I can do things until I've done them you know I mean it's one of those strange situations but the more more of these things you do that terrify you and then you get on the other side of it and you feel just elated I think the more the confidence builds and my mum was just like fake it till you make it like literally just just pretend to be confident until you feel confident

until you are who you truly are. And that worked strangely well. Like I think just, you know, holding your head high, even when you want to like shrink into a little ball is sometimes the best way. You know, doing your Wonder Woman power pose in the toilets before you go and do an interview or something is healthy.

Because it sounds like you've always been quite shy in a way, but you obviously have a huge amount of courage because it takes a lot of courage and I think most people are aware that you know on the other side of fear is where it all lies but to go through that yeah to go out of their comfort zone is just too terrifying people don't have the courage to do that so it takes a lot of I think you do you do have to have a couple of years of the pain of not going for it suddenly starts to outweigh the pain of going for it absolutely you know it's you know when I was a barista sat there writing little lyric scraps on like the um the old receipts and I was like sat there being like I'm a terrible barista I really hate this I'm really bad at this

job and you know someone would be fantastic at it but I'm just not good at it and I just had this moment where I was like you know if I was ever lucky enough for things to start to go well I would remember this pain the pain of you know no one caring if you did anything or not and I think that really does motivate me to kind of put more and more and more of myself on the line and be more courageous than even I think I can be because the pain of, you know, not doing it is worse, much worse. Was that the turning point for you? There was, there was so many turning points, but I think that was one of the biggest ones. I think, cause you know, getting a normal job and, you know, trying a different kind of life. And, you know, I was with like someone that wanted me

to be normal at that time. And it was just, oh, I felt like I was in a cage. I was like, this is insane. Like, I know that I can can I can be and give so much more than this and I started to spiral again with lots of like habits that I'd kicked and I went back to things and I think at that time I was like it was probably dark time but it was also that you know dark before the dawn I was like I'm ready to kind of do the whole rebirth chrysalis thing again like I'm ready for it yeah what were the kind if you don't mind sharing if you don't want to you don't have to but what were the kind of bad habits that you'd fall back into when you felt you know like you were not progressing or not allowing yourself to like you know like over drinking or like overeating or just spending time with people that make you feel okay

about not going for your dreams like people that kind of want to keep you small yeah numbing people and trying to you know trying to live that life and it just I remember being like I want to spend time with people who are just absolutely courageous and like vivacious and like want to you know find the best in life not really negative people like yeah I think I wanted to spend time with people like I've grown up with like my parents and their their active friends who just absolutely adored life and storytelling and performing like that was who I'd been brought up with so to suddenly get a group of friends that just wanted you to stay small or like you know don't go for your dreams it was just I think for me it was just a little experiment to see if I could handle it and I absolutely couldn't I was like this is just so wrong so I lost them all I

lost all those friends and I I look back and I'm sure they're great people now. But it was a hard time to go from having a group of friends to no one. I think sometimes to ascend higher in a hot air balloon, you do have to get rid of some sandbags. How old were you when that happened? I was 21. Yeah, 21. So that's a really interesting metaphor you used of the hot air balloon. I remember I once I was struggling with the same thing. And I think, you know, friendships and the loss of friendships is something that people don't talk about enough,

but it's, you know, there's a real grief in it. And I think often we find ourselves in that situation of like, this is where I want to go. This is like my dream. This is my direction. But you're being held back or holding yourself back by like a circle or a group of people that are playing small themselves you choose to spend time with yeah because they don't

want you to make them feel bad by going for your dreams because then that reminds them by your mere existence that they haven't gone for theirs and I think that that's it's really hard to choose sheer isolation especially because we're such social creatures like we need that social validation it's so important to us to actually have the strength to be like no yeah I would prefer to be on my own and build a completely new life with new people is um it's really hard but it's so so worth it I went through that period a bit later than you when I was in my late 20s and it was like uh I describe it as a self-inflicted exile and I wasn't I wasn't unhappy but I wasn't I didn't have like that many friends around me because I was shedding a past version of myself as well yeah and had to let everything let everything

with go away so I completely empathize and understand about that experience it's hugely brave it's like the bravest thing you can actually do it's the making sure that the people you surround yourself with are like you know champions of you and so you can champion them back you know yeah it doesn't yeah you have to have a really strong family you have to have someone who is like reminding you who you are constantly because otherwise you know if those friends all I've had I'm not sure I would have been brave enough but because I had a family to fall back on, I was like, I think I can do this. Even if I go back down to bare bones, I still have that family support, which are everything, you know. That support system. Is that still incredibly important to you now?

Hugely, yeah. Yeah. I don't think people know. It's like, you know, we all get in the car, like from our little, it's not probably the life that people expect me to live when I come home. I sometimes feel like Hannah Montana. I'm like, I get to live this insane life where I'm like I'm on stage like at Glastonbury and there's like 50,000 people like singing along and I'm literally snapped back I'm at home like you know hanging up the washing with my mum just like this is so random like this is so random I absolutely I just adore it no one would really know but I just I love that that grounding force that my family will and always have been. Yeah, I think that's really crucial.

Do you feel a pressure now with songwriting? Because obviously if you've written the songs that you have, am I going to be able to sustain that? Can I keep creating? Am I going to run out of inspiration? Yeah, hugely. I think after Lost Without You I was like mom I think I'm going to be a one-hit wonder and she was like better than a no-hit wonder and I was

like good point very good point and it's just like and also that's not true and I was like that isn't true you're right and then literally I don't know I just kind of had to convince myself or just pretend that that wasn't true that I was just going to keep writing and I was going to try and write another one and then castles happened and I was Oh wait, maybe I'm not a one hit wonder. This is exciting. This is like, maybe what I write at home is acceptable to be, you know, played around the world. Maybe this is, you know, what I am meant to do. Cause I doubt myself so hard sometimes. I think, you know, a lot of female creatives do. I think it's, it's just the life of being a woman as well as having hormones that go up and down. And every month you're like, maybe I just I'm not good enough to do this.

I don't know. So that's something we also have to deal with. But I think I have a bit more confidence in the music that I truly love playing. And I can kind of visualize the kind of shows I want to play when I come, you know, fingers crossed we ever come back. So I think I'm excited to have a lot more sort of life and energy and like brass and choirs and like stuff in the next album. I don't think people probably know about yet which is exciting and in those darker moments when you are questioning yourself and you know having imposter syndrome or whatever it might be do you have any practices or things that you lean towards to kind of overcome those feelings um I think the only thing that gets me over it is just it's not really like

waiting it out but it's kind of like doing little tiny self-esteem building acts that day you know whether it's like you know doing something good for someone else or surprising someone or just sitting down and playing a song that I didn't think was very good and just sort of working on it a little bit or just yeah basically my mom as well is also saying like you know we have this thing where we're like esteemable acts because that's the only way you actually do build your self-esteem back up is by actually doing things that make you proud of yourself that's that's so great I love that esteem yeah wow because we think of self-esteem as like like I used to think of it as this thing that just was in the ether that no one could see and no one could really get and some people had it, some people didn't.

But it was like, you know, we all know that, you know, if you go for like a little run and you do like a little sprint down the road, like nothing big, you just you feel proud of yourself. And if you you make a ginger shot, you feel proud of yourself. You know, if you say no to going out for drinks and you don't when you want to get an early bed, you feel proud of yourself. So it's like these tiny little acts every day. I'm like, I'm just going to pretend. Esteem.em yeah that I can do this until I feel like I can my problem with that kind of stuff is I don't think I congratulate myself when I do them I usually have that in a voice that is a very good point that is a huge thing that I actually really want to work on because I think sometimes like we do take for granted these huge mama things that we've done

over the years and like underestimated ourselves along the way and then we've done it and it's like my mum is again hugely champion for like celebrating every little thing like she's always got a bottle of something at the back of the fridge just to celebrate everything you know no matter what it is we have to celebrate it and I I love that because you're right one day we'll be super old and we'll be like, oh, wouldn't it be nice if we've actually celebrated a bit more of the things we have actually achieved? Yeah. I think that that's like kind of a beautiful note to end on is, you know, congratulate yourself, congratulate yourself in the process because we are pretty hard on ourselves. And although it's important to stay focused and have our goals like you have to acknowledge the steps along the

way otherwise what's the point yeah and acknowledging that is a really good phrase because I think sometimes it's like oh I want to buy myself something or I'm going to do something it's like that actually doesn't really say well done truly to yourself but actually sitting with it or maybe like writing yourself a little note or letter or something in your diary and being like just acknowledging the things you've achieved yeah Yeah. Yeah. Because sometimes we wait for other people that external validation and we don't have the internal one. And I think, you know, to be like that warm-blooded creature that I just aspire to be is, you know, it has to come from within first. Absolutely. I love that. Yeah. I want to congratulate myself more.

That actually also makes me think, because obviously I always call it like a hedonic treadmill which is like we want one thing we like run along we get it we want another thing so we run along and we're just chasing stuff with your music and everything and having that kind of response does it then balance things out in terms of like the the euphoria you experienced from those first things when it happened, does it then make it harder to reach those highs again? Yeah, for sure. I think when they first happened, like nothing will feel like that again. I think I did, I thought I fell into the trap of being like, you know,

I can't drink, I don't smoke, I don't go out, I don't party. So I'll just, I'll spend loads online. And for some reason that wasn't making me happy either. I was like, that's really making me quite miserable. You know, I want to value and treasure the people and the things I have without always wanting something more. And I've been recently, really, this year so far, really into the minimalism documentaries on Netflix.

They've completely, really, already changed my mindset hugely. I'm definitely not a minimalist by by a long shot but I think there's a feeling that a lot of things around but I completely understand what you're saying it's yeah but it's like that peace yeah that you're allowed to feel being content with less but also you know yeah the drive and the dream to have to achieve these things but also being satisfied along the way I think is one of the great lessons yeah because otherwise like you say like you'll never be happy it will never be enough if you're always thinking that happiness exists outside of you on the next like one thing away exactly

exactly so that's totally beautiful yeah that's the lovely thing um all right fair well thank you so much for talking with me oh thank you so much Kagu I all right fair well thank you so much for talking with you oh thank you so much kagu i love this absolute joy thank you so much for having me i love what freya said about the process of her songwriting especially lost without you and how she wrote that song when she was 19 and it it just goes to show, you know, we always think these things are an overnight success and happen instantly. But it was such a journey for her through a lot of vulnerability, you know, on her quest to be her authentic self. And what I loved is that she remained true to that against an industry that's always telling you to be someone else. And how she ultimately transformed and used

her pain as rocket fuel to propel her into the career that she has now. Now as many of you know I like my poetry and my songwriting and my singing and so I felt very inspired by talking to Freya about how she has navigated that space so I hope as a takeaway for some of you, it might inspire you to start writing more, to start performing more, doing something artistic. It doesn't have to be your career. I think it's just really important to have an outlet of expression of self. And art is a beautiful form of that. You can find Freya on Instagram at Freya Ridings and you can listen to her self-titled debut album wherever you buy or stream your music you can follow our astrological guide Nora on Instagram

at stars and Klein and you can find me at Kagi's World if you enjoyed this episode I would love it if you could share it with a friend or write us a review on Apple. Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production. The producer is Hannah Varrell and the executive producer is Kate Taylor. Thank you so much for listening and remember you are not alone. Goodbye.