Saturn Returns with Caggie - 3.9 Spirituality in Connection to the Body with Cat Meffan

Episode Date: May 31, 2021

Wellness wanderer, yoga teacher and founder of Soul Sanctuary Cat Meffan joins Caggie this week for a conversation around free-movement, self love, sexuality, sobriety and balance. As an ex-gymnast and dancer, Cat discovered yoga when recovering from an injury and found that movement helped her heal her relationship with her body and fall back in love with it. Caggie and Cat discuss how emotion can get stuck in the body, and how moving in whatever way feels right for you can release trapped energy and emotion that becomes stagnant over time. Trigger warning: Caggie and Cat discuss eating disorders in this episode. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. It's about being able to sit for a moment and say, okay, like, how do I feel? What's happening in my body right now? And how can I translate that into a movement? Today, I'm joined by yoga teacher, fitness blogger and creator of Soul Sanctuary, Kat Meffin. Kat was a dancer and gymnast before discovering yoga and finding a deeper connection to her body.

I wanted to speak to Kat because free movement and getting out of my head and into my body was such a key moment in my own Saturn Returns journey. And so I wanted to discuss with her how yoga and free movement informs her spiritual practice and her healing and her self-love journey. In this episode, we discuss movement, sexuality and our relationship with our bodies. We talk a little bit about CBT as well. And I just want to remind you all that everyone is different and different techniques work for different people so please don't change what you are doing without talking to a professional first. Finally I do want to warn you that we talk about eating disorders in this episode

and it may be triggering for some of you listening so if that's not for you please listen to a different episode on Saturn returns instead. So I hope you enjoy this episode. We cover a lot of ground, but before we get into it, let's check in with our astrological guide, Nora. If we've learned anything about Saturn return and any Saturn period, it's that we're meant to learn about discipline, self-governance and responsibility. Through the pressure that we experience at these times and the endurance we exhibit, we slowly grow closer to become the adults we want to be in the world, and not the one we've been influenced to become by repressive norms or restrictions.

So we know this, and we feel this, but do we really allow it to sink in? So often we're caught up in the world of self-help and of dramatic lifestyle makeovers, internalizing as much information as we can, as fast as we can, and then feeling frustrated when the internal transformation isn't initiating as fast as we'd like it to. Why do we still feel unfulfilled if we follow the instructions to become more fulfilled?

Well, ask yourself, what's the pace of Saturn? It's slow. It takes two and a half years to transit one sign for Saturn. And I know it's counterintuitive to do things slowly because of the climate we live in today. But without doing this, we never tune into the true voice of inner guidance and wisdom. These things need time. In a world, and this includes the modern spiritual world by the way, where the norm is the pace of the rat race, Saturn reminds us that slow and steady wins the race. You can't rush a masterpiece. For the sake of our mental health and future well-being, it's important to implement this Saturnian lesson as a foundation to all that follows a Saturnian time.

Take it slow and make informed, mature decisions. Step out of comparison and ephemeral trends. Those don't even withstand the cycles of Saturn. That's how we use Saturn's energy responsibly while governing our life in a way that fits our path. No matter how slow the progress seems to the rest of the world. The best thing we can do before being of service to the world is to know ourselves, be responsible for ourselves, and to take care of ourselves. Hello Kat.

Hello Kagi, thank you for having me. How are you doing today? I'm doing well. I've actually had a few days of a bit of a slump, had a few down days, which I'm okay with. And today, I feel good today. I was thinking this morning, I am getting emotionally whiplashed by how quickly my moods are changing. It's like gear shifting every day. I feel like I'm having a period every week. every day I feel like I'm having a period every week honestly I'm like I I'm like a yo-yo I feel you and I do you know what and everyone I'm speaking to is is feeling the same you know what I really wanted to discuss with you is because you know you very much tie in your

spiritual life with your with your physical through yoga through dance through free movement and all this stuff and I that was probably a really key moment for me in I you know I was totally disconnected from my body I think a lot of people a lot of people are and it was when I went on this retreat and we were told that we were going to do this free movement exercise oh god where so humiliating get me out of here and anyway I started it and then I don't know there was just something that shifted and I just dropped out of my head and into my body yeah and it was a like a real pivotal moment like everything everything just shifted. And I suddenly realized how disconnected I had been and also how much emotion was stored in there. And, you know, I'm definitely by no means like anywhere close to where you are with it. But I would say that even people that are on a spiritual journey and do yoga and stuff, there's a disconnect between the two. journey and do yoga and stuff, there's a disconnect between the two. Totally. I mean, I came to yoga, like my background was in gymnastics and dancing, but it was very structured. It was somebody else's sequence. It was somebody else's,

you know, guidance, which is great. And the guidance and the way showing is beautiful, but actually there was never any room to improvise or embellish and kind of like have a little play with, with how I feel and putting that in. So I came to yoga very much through the physical, um, probably about, about 11 years ago, I started practicing yoga and I just thought, Oh, this is great. Like, you know, I've got a few injuries, I can't jump up and down. So this is a nice form of like gentle exercise. and then from there it just started to grow when I did my yoga teacher training I just really wanted to grow my own journey and again was just thinking from a physical point of view and then I just I just

started it just started opening these doors for me I started doing more research looking into the philosophy but not only that looking into myself and you know learning just what kind of person I am like challenging myself and a lot of teacher trainings you know they don't just talk about yoga it's very much you know we look at our patterns we look at you know our how we've been brought up and and I think that by by coming into this realization of like you know which which patterns have we copied? Which ones have we rebelled? How can we actually change the direction of our own journey?

How can we actually look at our own path and our own journey? And that's kind of where I then stepped into this kind of free movement and this dance. Because I didn't know how to express a lot of my emotion. And I, you know, some people might do it through art and through painting. Other people might do it through, through acting and embodying an emotion through movement is just this, it's like this explosion of, of realization of, of release. I think that happens in your body. And I would, I would really tell anybody like dancer or no dancer, it's not about being able to dance. It's not about being able to make shapes. It's about being able to sit for a moment and say, okay, like, how do I feel what's

happening in my body right now? And how can I translate that into a movement? So sometimes like I'm literally walk around the room stomping like an absolute lunatic. I think I stomp around Hyde Park every day. I actually said that to my friend, Kirstie Gallagher, who was on the podcast. And she does a lot of stuff around like moon cycles. And she and I have become very good friends. And we'll just message each other saying, can't see a stomp. It's like, you know, sometimes that is like the way to get it out it doesn't need to be this this kind of graceful fluid movement sometimes it is if I'm feeling you know into like more of my

sensual kind of body and there's kind of like my second chakra just kind of needs like a little bit of a release like this sake for all kind of place where we feel into kind of needs like a little bit of a release like this safe for all kind of place where we feel into kind of sexuality and sensuality then yes it might be a little bit more fluid and graceful and expressive but sometimes I look like I'm yeah I've lost the plot I guess it's that thing isn't it when you dance like nobody's watching but it's a lot easier said than done it's a bit like when people say how do I write in a journal and a lot of people have spoken to me when they've tried to do it they're like oh I can't help but do it as if there's a sort of film you know that is if I'm in a film and I'm a character that's writing my story

rather than just doing it and I think it's kind of the same for movement because it feels so foreign and you know if we see people like you doing it and you're a dancer and an athlete and a gymnast it's like well it's easy for her to do it she looks magnificent four-year-old fumbling around and I I mean I would I totally agree and I you know and I do say this you know at the moment where I'm filming for um the soul sanctuary which is my like monthly membership and we're in our months of intuition and so we're kind of like really exploring like how to embody it and you know and I make a point of of not putting on my dancer hat whilst filming it and kind of doing these like you know very bizarre kind of body pulses which

I'm actually if we were on video you'd be seeing me doing them right now. And it's just trying to allow people to really like just let go. And the direction that I usually give rather than just say, right now, move. I just kind of, as we move, I guide it in a way that's like, okay, so just move the fingers and just allow your fingers to literally like touch the space around where they are. So they're just kind of like floating through space, which is this beautiful kind of like visualization of, you know, maybe even you kind of like, you visualize that you are in space and there's stars around you and you're just tapping them. You're just moving from kind of like star to star. And then you start to add in the arms and the legs. And then I just say, okay,

and if you could let go just 5% more than you are right now, what would that look like? How would that feel? And that in itself is a massive achievement. It doesn't need to be straight away, like 100% I'm giving it. Because also, yeah. And like there's days when even I feel like I practice this all the

time, but there's days when I feel super anxious or my body is just really resisting something. And the movement doesn't feel as free as it sometimes does. And that's normal because we, you know, we're ultimately, we are ever changing beings and every single day, our emotions, especially as women and we our hormones they're constantly changing and shifting so we're not gonna just because you look you know you really let it go one day doesn't mean it's going to feel exactly the same the next day and we need to just be okay with that you touched on um sexuality as part of it what does that mean to you in terms of because it's something that we we've discussed quite a lot in season two of the podcast and it's a space that I am really interested in in terms of like this

the spiritual part and the you know really connecting with self part as opposed to the I guess sort of more vulgar aspect yeah fine line to tread you know and I think as well you know really for me it's about you know I have I get to explore that with my partner but I really want to explore those feelings on my own I don't want to just be intimate with with the man in my life as wonderfully as he is I want to be able to be intimate with myself and so you know kind of moving, I'll put on maybe kind of a slightly slower song and just by moving very gently and allowing my hands to kind of caress my body, like feeling my skin, you know, touching myself in every area. And it doesn't need, it's not something that I feel I should ever be ashamed of, or that I feel anyone should ever be ashamed of or that I feel anyone should ever be ashamed of. I'm, you know, this is

my body and I've, it's taken me a really, really long time to get to a point where I do see it as, as this beautiful container. You know, like I struggled very much with eating disorders when I was younger. So kind of my relationship with my body has been a very long road. And so now even just quite simply, like, you know, some of the practices that I'll teach will sit in a simple cross leg position and I'll ask people just to close their eyes and just stroke their thigh. And that, that sensual, that sensual touch, like noticing your fingertips on your skin, that doesn't even need to be sexual. That is just allowing yourself to really embrace your own body and then yeah then when it turns into feeling more sexual it's not it doesn't mean I'm necessarily

going from a dance to my mind vibrator you know depends what day of the week it is I mean there's been times but that's not not what I'm necessarily saying it's you know opening up a new way of feeling it's just opening up that you know sexuality doesn't need to mean you know pleasure with a partner or pleasuring yourself in the ways that we we assume it does like be that with sex toys or, you know, your own yourself. But it can literally mean through movement. Like I can get myself on such a high and feel so alive just through embracing movement, but feeling more like a goddess and feeling into this really kind of like sexual way as if, you know, almost as if I'm like performing for myself.

It sounds like the ultimate act of self-love really. Yeah. And it's, and it's scary. There's no denying that. There's no denying that, you know, it's the first time you do it, you're like, oh gosh, is someone going to walk upstairs? Can someone see through my window? Like what's going on? But actually like I'm doing this for, you know, none of those dances get filmed for Instagram. They're not, you know, they're just for me. They're not for anyone else. Yeah.

And this, I guess, is the that kind of hits the nail on the head in terms of female sexuality. It's like even I think a lot of this conversation around it that's put on social media, perhaps, you know, it does come from the right place but is it just re-commodifying women's bodies rather than reclaiming them in a different way because it's essentially all still through the male gaze if that makes sense so I think what you're talking about is something that's so key is it's just like it is for you and you alone and it doesn't have to be this goal-orientated exercise it's to like you say to do with like orgasms or vibrators or sex in the way that we've received it it's about it's an energetic thing with self and I think you know and it's that that feeling of being alive and you can feel alive in joy you can feel alive in in your sexuality and and there are many different ways to feel alive and it's exactly that it's without needing without needing a climax without needing to sort

of be like oh yeah I did it you know it's it's a completed task it's just about like gifting yourself with the kind of the love and the and almost being able to look at yourself with desire you know like how special is that and how how rarely do we actually do that well I'd say it's like almost been actively discouraged yeah you know you know desire for a woman always stems from desirability from another partner you know it's like they they feel desire when they feel desired yeah and you think you know so often how often is it where you know your partner might say oh like you know you look amazing or someone will give you a compliment and suddenly you then look at yourself and you're like oh yeah but why do we need that initial why do we need that initial comment to make us realize

it and so I guess through through the embodied movement and through kind of just you know moving myself and feeling kind of like proud of what my body can do I get to kind of feel that as well when because you mentioned that you had a less sort of harmonious relationship with your body when you were younger how did that manifest itself and what were the sort of what was the process in finding peace again yeah um so when I was 15 I mean so being a dancer and a gymnast is a little bit kind of cutthroat anyway in that you are always looked at for your your body you know depending on the level that you're at unfortunately you, I had a letter sent home to my parents to say that I was, cause we got weighed all the time and saying that I was a little bit overweight. I mean, which looking back now is just hilarious

cause I was like this muscly little rake, but it is what it is. And I think that that, that was at the age of 13. And so that was kind of like the trigger then that led me into bulimia. I was kind of borderline bulimic anorexic. Like I didn't binge bulimic. I kind of just ate less than normal, but still purged. And it was a real roller coaster, I think, was a real roller coaster, I think, you know, probably until 15 to I'd say like 19. And then 19 to 21, I sort of started looking into therapy. And it's really, it probably took then from the day that I decided, and it really did work, it did happen like this for me and I know that this is probably hard to believe for a lot of people but I genuinely just one day I was an inpatient at the Priory and it was doing a lot of CBT and I just wasn't working for me I just didn't really I didn't

resonate with that with the form of therapy. For those that don't know that's cognitive behavioral therapy what does that entail? So it's a lot to do with and I don't might have come on differently now but when I was there it's a lot to do with kind of like finding um it was like solution based so it was wasn't really looking at the root cause it was looking at kind of like so when you get this when you get this urge to do something what tools can you put in place to stop yourself doing it and though that does help it doesn't help with the innate sadness that you feel about yourself that only helps top level kind of on the on the surface layer of okay I feel like I want to purge what am I gonna what practices can I put in place to stop it? But that doesn't help. It wasn't helping me, or at least I didn't feel like it was helping me. Or it wasn't getting to like the heart of the matter, I guess. Yeah. It wasn't looking at like,

why, why do I feel this way? And so I just, I got to this point where I was like, I am so tired and exhausted of hating my body. And I was dating a guy at the time. And I just said, you know, I think I'm just going to make you a promise right now that I'm going to get better because I'm really, really tired. And I just don't want to feel like this anymore. And it definitely wasn't an easy road. And though I might have not been textbook bulimic after that, I definitely went through, you know, obsessions in other ways, addiction to exercise, you know, you know, different types of dieting, which might seem healthy at the time, like, you know, going. Healthier, but they're still coming from not the right place, I guess. Exactly. Exactly. You right place I guess exactly exactly you know very much like you know going deep into like a paleo diet and things like that and it just being so

harsh with myself and so much self-sabotage and punishment and um yeah and then it just kind of took a few years of unraveling and really deepening my understanding of my emotions, my understanding of food and what I enjoy. And, you know, I now eat fully plant-based and that's been, I've been doing that for three years. And that actually, it was before that when I went vegetarian, even that was, you know, it was looking at food differently. I went into it kind of, and it's not about saying like anyone needs to eat in a particular way, but it's just noticing what works for you and what kind of lifestyle is going to nourish your soul for what you believe or what you think. And yeah, the more in touch I got with the yoga and the movement and actually moving

not from a place of being told what to do but moving from a place of feeling I was able to just fall back in love I think with my body totally and also moving from a place of you know I'm doing this as a spiritual practice not as a goal-orientated practice to get help like healthier yeah thinner or stronger or that It's like you're enjoying the process of it. And I think, you know, I relate to so much of what you talked about. And I've talked about it before. I went through, yeah, I was 16 actually when it, I suddenly started putting on weight for the first time when I was like,

I was tiny, tiny, tiny. But I actually hated that about myself because obviously you always just hate whatever you are. And all the other girls, you know, like, were more developed. And I was just like, oh, what can I do to grow and to, like, put on a bit of weight and look like a woman? Because no boys were interested in me because I just didn't look like a woman. And I absolutely loathed that. And then I started, like, eating so much to try and put on weight.

That's not a very good idea. But I literally could eat, and then, like, nothing would happen. And then suddenly when I got to, it was actually about 17, I started putting on a bit of weight, but it wasn't in the way that I thought. It wasn't, like, just to my boobs. It was, like, anywhere else, actually. And I was like, oh, this isn't that fun.

But because I'd already kind of like checked out of my intuitive eating and into this place of, without realizing it as well, associating it with a sense of safety. Like I associated a sense of fullness with a sense of like safety and love. And it was, you know, to do with a whole like array of other things to do with like my parents getting divorced and stuff like that. But anyway, then I kind of went really dramatically the other way very quickly and lost a huge amount of weight and was, you know, very unhealthy. And I would say that even though it balanced itself out from the outside within a year I still was harboring those issues for

the best part of my 20s yeah and I remember it was like towards the end of my 20s where I was like as similar to you I was like I do not want to go through my life feeling this way about myself and it was very much aligned with me stopping drinking as well so I want to explain you don't drink do you I don't I don't drink at all and I am at the time I didn't see it fully correlating but really ultimately the drinking was a way to escape myself and how I felt about myself and to feel more confident around men or feel more confident just around friends and all things like that and And, and really they did, even though I couldn't see it at the time, they were so connected, so interconnected

because ultimately it was this kind of deep rooted sadness I had as to like who I was and not feeling worthy enough just to be as I, as I am to be, you know, I can be fun without alcohol. am to be you know I can be fun without alcohol and I can be beautiful without needing to lose weight or to hide you know food or whatever it might be so yeah I really resonate with that and so when did your sort of sober journey begin so I have been sober for six six years now so it wasn't until I had you know I'd kind of I was with a partner, not the partner I'm with now, but I came into a really beautiful relationship and just felt safe, felt like I really just enjoyed being. And then I noticed that when I stopped drinking, I never was a drinker kind of during the week. It was just binge drinking. It was kind of go out and just get, you know, totally.

Yeah, it's totally wasted. And, you know, I've had some hilariously wonderful memories. However, I deeply rooted behind that has always been just kind of this need to kind of be more than I am and not feeling enough or wanting to mask something. And I just didn't like the person that I was. I hated that I had this dangerous memory loss. I didn't like feeling that kind of out of control. I love getting lost in movement or in other forms of whatever it might be but that feeling of being out of control with with alcohol just felt really dangerous and very very kind of unconscious very unaware totally and also I I don't know whether you relate to this but so much of what you're saying is like exactly what I experience and when I describe it to people it's like it it's a spiritual darkness actually that would come over me afterwards because

I was opening myself up in a way that was completely out of control when I would drink in the past it's like I was possessed yeah oh and I mean I think some people loved her and some people were like I hate who you've become and I kind of hated who I became because I mean, I think some people loved her and some people were like, I hate who you've become. And I kind of hated who I became because I was like, I was capable of doing things that I would never do. And, you know, it was obviously a part of me. And I think the key thing is to like bring that into a different form of embodied practice that's like that allows it to be free and expressed. that allows it to be free and expressed, but in a way that's healthy and, you know, spiritually positive as opposed to dark. Yeah. And I massively relate to that. It was almost like a hangover for me wasn't just kind of a physical thing. It was a spiritual thing.

Yeah. It was like this whole emotional kind of come down. And yeah, it was a real, a real kind of of event and it would sometimes last for a few days and I just kind of thought oh you know I'm just one of those people that gets bad hangovers but really what that I think was was my whole my soul kind of trying to pick the pieces back up again because it was just me coming so far out of myself coming so far out yeah out of my truth and so it was like my soul being like okay hun we need a few days because you've really shattered us you've really okay I'm gonna do it all again next Friday just FYI I'm gonna do Thursday Friday and Saturday next week what was the moment when you were like no more oh gosh do you really want to know yeah now I really want to know I so the last time that I drunk was um I went to a wedding with my with

my ex-partner and it was his his wedding for lethal oh yes it was his best friend's wedding. And I only have very few memories of the night. And, you know, I woke up in the morning and everyone was like, way, like cat, life and soul of the party. And I was like, huh? I was like, I don't know what they mean. And apparently I was at the bar and I was trying to show everyone how to do a headstand but because I was so drunk well because I was so drunk I couldn't do the headstand so instead I decided to show people how to do forward rolls and I'm in like the you know these beautiful flared trousers and this backless top I mean mean, God knows if there was boob going everywhere. Probably.

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, and then the only thing I remember is getting the bride a drink and it was a glass of red wine and very, very fiercely running over to her with this glass of red wine. And I don't think it actually went on her dress. It was like a film it was like you don't give the bride red wine when she's wearing a white dress with it yes exactly in this like extremely aggressive manner and I just and I and it was like this kind of feeling

in the morning where everyone else knew what I had done and I didn't. And I just felt really, yeah. And I just felt really uncomfortable. And I just was like, it just wasn't me. I'd come on so far with my other practices and it just felt very disjointed from this other, this person I felt I was. And so that was the last time I just, I just was like I just was like, I don't want to do it anymore. And actually, do you know what? And I say this to a lot of people. I honestly believe that not drinking at all is easier than just drinking a little bit

because there's so much peer... I found that when I... I don't know about how you came to it, but when I sort of said, oh, I'm only going to drink kind of on special occasions, that was worse because A, I'd go like in hard. I'd go like for it massively. But also, but then people would be like, oh, but you say you're not drinking tonight, but you're drunk at her birthday. I know. And then it's like they get like personally offended by it. It's like

you're not showing up for them, but you show up for that person. Yeah. It was like the fun police came out and it was like, oh, well, you clearly don't want to have as much fun at my birthday. And that just kind of really and those comments really hit me. And I was like, wow, this is the society we're in where people are genuinely comparing me based on how much I want to drink. But also this sort of subliminal message is you're not present if you're not drinking. Yeah. And how mad is that? And you're like, trust me, I'm not present when I am.

Yeah. And that's, you know, makes me actually quite kind of sad in itself is that that is what we, what so many people believe. it's like wow if only you could know how how much more you could show up for someone and how much more present you could be if you didn't have you know two bottles of wine to yourself absolutely I think I really get it I really get it and I think what you're saying that it's easier not to was also like a journey for me that you know took a lot of a lot of trying to find a solution that didn't mean that I didn't drink completely um however like you know evidence would suggest that it's probably just too much like risky business and I think it does depend on the kind of person you are like I'm an all or nothing

kind of girl I like literally before in the past when people like balance I'm like what I don't understand what that means what is you know going by heart I was right you know my mum always said to me you need to know when your limit is and I'm like yeah but then I'm pissed by that point I've got no idea where my limit is and I think it's in another bottle of wine's time. Well, I think for me, it's like I will get to that point. But it's actually very, would be very, very early on if I was honest. Yes. But I then, there's something that does occasionally switch in me. And I've always described it as Russian roulette because I never quite know when that moment is.

But when it comes, it's too late. And it's like this depending on what state I'm in in myself I see it as a ticket to sort of dive into oblivion and quite often I'm like I can't let's do it you know because I just kind of disregard I want to disregard life yeah to be completely honest I want to just like completely abandon everything and escape. But of course I have to like wake up and deal with the cold. I get this thing. Do you ever get this thing?

Which I call a phantom hangover. My friend gets it as well because he stopped drinking. And it's like I have a dream that I go completely bonkers. And I wake up and I've honestly got like a dry mouth and like my eyes went open and I'm like oh my god and it takes me about five minutes to realize none of it happened I don't have that much fun in my dreams apparently it's not fun I'm telling you it's not fun I think it's my subconscious just giving me the odd reminder that it's still not a good idea yeah I mean like I I mean my dreams are sadly because I watch way too many murder mysteries and thrillers and things

about you know my dreams are normally like I'm waking up and I think I've been murdered or something I mean I wish I was out partying no I I love those shows as well but they don't affect me in any way which is often I find quite weird because some people get really affected and I'm just like, I don't know, they're sort of weirder and messed up. I have to watch them at least an hour before the bed wind down. I can't watch them and kind of almost then just fall asleep. But I currently just finished Bridgerton and that was the best form of escapism I think it was really necessary right now that's what we need just light-hearted

yeah I think that's the thing I think when you're on this you're when you're kind of on this journey it's very easy to sort of think that you're almost like not allowed to still want to watch Netflix and lay in bed for a couple of hours. I think that sometimes I even, even I still is like, you know, as a, as a teacher, like I think, oh, I should really be kind of putting all my practices into place. And I'm like, well, they have their time and that, you know, I'm very well accustomed to my practices, but sometimes there's absolutely nothing wrong with literally just having a bit of a duvet, to my practices but sometimes there's absolutely nothing wrong with literally just having a bit of a duvet duvet day with some netflix and a film absolutely especially right now it's just like

yeah through what i wanted to um to ask you about before you go we kind of touched on movement as an act of self-love but what about emotions that are stored in the body and what would be your advice for someone that finds this all quite foreign and a bit daunting um where to sort of begin so I think for me the kind of best advice that I could give is to not overthink it because I think that it is very easy to to kind of maybe hear me say things like oh I want to feel into my second chakra and I'm gonna like dance through my sadistana and all of this stuff but ultimately that's purely because that's where I've done my my training that's that's just my way of tapping into it. And I think that if I could give really any advice, it would be

just put on a song that you really like and just dance around the house. And that's just, you know, somewhere to start. Like, you know, you can start to embody your emotions when you feel a bit more comfortable with letting go. But when, when you're just kind of starting out and this is when, you know, when I'm on my retreats, we do free movement and free dance every morning. And the first day, the playlist is always songs that people will know. It's kind of those kind of crowd pleaser songs. get comfortable with just dancing, just letting go, you know, doing some dad dance moves, having a little bit of a giggle. And I think that really that's a good place to start. But one thing I would say is try to be aware of, and almost maybe write it down if you're somebody that journals, like how you felt before and then how you feel after. And then you can start to become more and more aware of A, how the practice is helping you. But B, just noticing your emotions, like saying like, actually, like, I feel a little bit

sad, or I feel a little bit anxious and being able to write that down or say it out loud or admit that to yourself and being okay with it and not over identifying with it yeah and also just kind of you know knowing that your emotions aren't something that need to be fixed every emotion is valid but the only way that we can really really accept that every emotion is valid is if we get more intimate with the emotion and we get to know it a bit more and then we're able to channel it so that's why the movement and doing it in this kind of slightly more, I guess, more mainstream way of just having almost like a silent disco in your house, put your headphones on, have a dance around. It's quite a nice way to get familiar with just a feeling before, a feeling after, and just notice your body. Like notice what feels good. Like does kind of shimmying your shoulders feel good? Is that where maybe you're holding up a little bit of tension in your chest? Maybe it's

like opening your chest because it feels like it's stuck. Maybe you notice yourself kind of going down into some lunges, you know, if they're kind of, and, but noticing all these things bit by bit, and it won't happen straight away, but you know, I'm able to now notice what part of me, like where the tension feels stuck. And one other thing I'd love to add is to use your breath as a way of noticing. So before you do the practice, I always kind of just sit and I just breathe normally. No, no kind of judgment on like what's happening in my breath, not making any changes. So not doing any pranayama or any breath technique, but I'm able to just say, okay, if my breath, is it fast? Is it shallow? Is it slow? Is it, is it deep into my belly? Like where, and notice if there's

tension like today, because I've kind of had like a few off days and I know that I've got lots to do today. I can feel that there's like this ever so slight bit of tension in my chest. And I know that I've got lots to do today I can feel that there's like this ever so slight bit of tension in my chest and I know that it's an anxious energy because I kind of think oh I've got to I've got to do these things but I'm so aware of it and so I know that I can I can probably just move it out or I can sit with it just be like okay cool you're here and that's okay I think awareness is is key it's key so key and like we can only become more aware by by really repetition and by constantly just checking in with ourselves well Kat thank you so so much for having this conversation with me it really honestly lifted my spirits quite a lot I definitely definitely did it today. So thank you for joining us. I love this conversation with Kat. It just felt like I was catching up with an old friend.

And, you know, we'd never met before this. We'd never had a conversation before. So I think there was a lot of similarities in our characters and in our journeys in a way. And what I really love about her is she's real with it. She's not just saying the stuff that sounds right. She's really living it. And it's also very honest about where she came from and the realities and the funny side of all this stuff. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation and took something away from it you can find Kat on Instagram at Kat Meffen or her website katmeffen.com and you can follow

our astrological guide Nora on Instagram at stars incline and contact her if you would like a reading and you can follow me at kaggy's world if you enjoyed this episode i would love it if you could follow the show and leave a review on apple podcasts or just share it with a friend saturn returns is a feast collective production the producer is hannah barrel and the executive producer is kate taylor thank you so much for listening and remember you are not alone goodbye