Saturn Returns with Caggie - 4.12 Finding your Purpose with Human Design Expert Jenna Zoe

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

Caggie is joined by Jenna Zoe as they discuss Human Design, a logical system that brings together principles of the I Ching, astrology, Kabbalah, the Chakra system, and quantum physics. Your Human Design chart is calculated using your birth date, time, and place, and can show you where and how to access your body’s consciousness as a decision-making tool. Caggie and Jenna discuss how understanding your energy type, strategy and intuition can help you live as your truest most authentic self. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. There's nobody on this planet who doesn't want to know who they are, how they function, how they can make their life better like regardless of whatever walk of life you are in today's episode i'm going to deep dive into human design with the excellent jenna zoe creator of the app my human design human design is a system which uses information from your time place and date of birth to help you understand yourself and how you operate in the world. It combines parts of other spiritual systems, for example, astrology, Kabbalah, I Ching, and chakra. I first came across human design a number of years ago when I did a workshop with Olivia Lasanos, and you might

remember her from season one of Saturn Returns. So many of you enjoyed this episode that I wanted to deep dive a little further, and Jenna is someone that I consider as the poster girl for human design so she was the perfect person to speak to. I find human design a really effective tool for a better understanding of self so if you are curious to know a little bit more about yourself and how you operate in the world I think you'll enjoy this episode. We cover a lot of different topics including working with your design, finding your purpose and knowing your energy. But before we get to this episode with Jenna, let's check in with our astrological guide, Nora. Human design is essentially a social self-knowledge tool that is based on esoteric principles like astrology and Kabbalah, I Ching and so forth.

The commonality it has with astrology is very obvious. It allows us to be conscious of our natural patterns versus our nurtured, learned patterns. All of the esoterically informed systems and tools have as purpose to help us lift the veil between who it is we are and who it is we authentically are. And as you'll discover, a projector is only betraying its own nature by acting like a manifester, and a manifester is only holding itself back by acting like a projector. Yet we coexist in the same world by being true to our design. Especially for those, for example, who have a line six in their human

design charts, the Saturn return becomes a time of stepping into total self-knowledge and self-sovereignty. But truly this goes for all the lines. As you've learned so far, Saturn celebrates us by pushing us, pressurizing us to become our own authority, to use our authority in the way that best suits our authentic nature, and then to navigate this life in this vein so that we may not only pull ourselves closer to genuine happiness and peace but also so we may recognize all the imposed societal structures, patterns and voices that may have strayed us from our true nature. We then recognize our self-agency and imprint our true will onto our

lives, which helps us create the reality most in line with our soul's purpose, which the Saturn return awakens in us. But truly, we can do this at any age. I got into human design about eight years ago now. I was kind of in my mid twenties and I'd been kind of like seeking a lot of like spiritual information for a few years, going to all the talks, reading the major books at the time. And I just remember feeling like everyone was telling me things like live in the flow, trust the universe, like da da da. And I just felt really stupid because I was like, I don't know how to do that. Like, and so I remember like a lot of my kind of quote unquote spiritual seeking, almost like reinforcing that I wasn't good enough because I was just like

searching for the actual like practical answer and no one was giving it to me. And then just a very weird way that it happened is my mom had really bad vertigo and she saw this healer and she said to me, you've got to speak to this guy. He's amazing. So I did a session with him and he did like a bunch of different, he pulled on like a bunch of different modalities. One of them was human design. And he literally just read me like an open book. The way he described to me how I'm supposed to function and how I'm supposed to work just literally was like someone was giving me the manual to how to create like easy success in my life. And just coming from a background where I thought that was so hard and you have to like tough it out and blah, blah, blah. I was just like, it was such a

breath of fresh air. And at the time I was running a food business, it had been going for like six years and I was like pushing and hustling and forcing. And it was like all of the moment, like gluten free, all the things that should have made it super popular. But as time went on, I watched all these other girls in this space kind of start after me and literally zoom past me like success wise. And I was like, what is wrong with me? What am I not doing? When this guy told me my human design, I was like, oh, that's why all these things aren't working for me. Like, that's why I'm not going to be successful at that kind of business. What is your human design? So I'm a, I mean, I can explain more into it,

but I'm a two, four emotional projector. Okay. And so I remember one of the things he said to me, cause it's all about like your energy and how you function and how to do things to get the most bang for your buck in terms of like everything you, every action you take basically.

And like who you actually are. And I remember him saying to me, like you're only supposed to work two to three hours a day. And like, you're much more efficient that way. And actually, if you overwork, you're going to tire yourself out. And like, you're not really supposed to be having that kind of business because it's not aligned for your design. And, and honestly, after that, it was just a love affair with like, cause I love practical stuff and like implementable, easy, non too woo woo that it's inaccessible. And I just was like, this is the thing. And after that, it was just, you know, that was the, that was the beginning of the end of, you know, me doing anything else really.

It's interesting that you say that because a lot of people I've spoken to, especially this season, it's, and it's for me, I think finding something that's quite tangible and marrying the sort of esoteric with the scientific and making sure things have practical steps to back them up. It's one of those things where, you know, like I, before getting into spirituality, I was super atheistic, didn't believe in God, like loved science. That was like my favorite subject at school. Like, you know, I was very into the literal and there's been so many people who I read for. It's usually mostly like husbands or boyfriends of like people that were clients. And, you know, there's kind of, if you take the spirituality out of it, really, like there's nobody on this planet who doesn't want to know

like who they are, how they function, how they can make their life better, like regardless of whatever walk of life you are. So I'm on a real mission to kind of just, you know, really make it as doable and accessible to as many different kinds of people, because there really is just good juice in it. To the masses. I think that's really interesting also, because, you know, if you explain a little bit about the background of human design, it's pretty out there. little bit about the background of human design. It's pretty out there. Yeah, definitely. It was basically, I guess a man was in a, he was in an eight day meditation and this voice started speaking to him. He ended up listening to it for eight days and it was like a meditative state that he was in. And it was just a way of kind of bringing a lot of different modalities together.

So there's like elements of astrology, there's elements of the Chinese I Ching, there's elements of Kabbalah, and there's elements of the chakra system, all in this new system. And that was only 34 years ago. But what's interesting about the Chinese I Ching is there are 64 different energies that they identified existed in this world. And what they didn't, obviously, maybe they did know thousands of years ago when the I Ching was discovered. But, you know, there's 32 pairs of DNA, that's 64. So there's a lot of links being made to like genetic expression. And it makes sense, like you have certain things turned on in you, because you'll need them in this lifetime. And I won't necessarily have the same skills and gifts, not because I'm worse or better than you, but just because I won't need them. So it kind of brings this like reason to why you are fascinated by the things you're fascinated by, why you're effortlessly good at certain things. And they basically take no effort from you, right? And just remembering that some of those things that you do effortlessly are gifts is a huge thing for people because then they start to say, oh, well, maybe that is a gift. I

don't have to like work hard to be super good at something. Like maybe I'm amazing at getting people together. That means I could effortlessly be a better party planner than 97% of people. But we need that reflection because the world is like, you're only talented if you're like amazing at tech, amazing at finance, artistic genius, or sport. Like those are the only four things that we identify

as like a superhuman skill. But there's so many everyday ones that could make you excel at basically so many different fields, if you first recognize that actually, maybe I'm inherently like genetically good at this for a reason. I think that's so powerful. And essentially, what we're talking about here is purpose. And I think it's a big thing that, again, over the last couple of years, as people have been called to sort of re-establish their values perhaps they've been made redundant their whole world's been shifted upside down and anyway when one goes through their Saturn return that often happens and that happened to

me when something I you know I was so tunnel vision on my life going in a certain trajectory that I was like trying desperately to control it. And it just wasn't connecting. And I couldn't understand why. And I think human design is such a lovely piece that allows people to inform themselves as to like, why that might not be working. Because a lot of, I think what we think we want and our aspirations for ourselves can be just conditioning. Yeah, 100%. And that's the main basis of human design is this is who you really are. Now start to see all the things that you thought you should have been or need to be in order to be happy, to be successful, to be validated, to be loved. And if those aren't from you, they're coming from the outside world,

the conditioning, your peers, your parents, your society, all that stuff. And also this idea that there's one destination of success. You know, what looks, what success is to you will be completely different from what it is to me. But in the Western world, we view it as most of the time money and fame. And it's that amazing quote by Jim Carrey. It's like, I wish everyone could become rich and famous so they realize it's not the answer. Yeah.

But yet we're constantly chasing it. So in terms of you have your energy type, your authority and your profile, right? Yes. So could we go into those a little bit? Yeah. So your energy type is the first thing. And that's kind of like saying, what's your sun sign? It's like the overview.

And your energy type is how you are supposed to use your energy. So you and me being projectors, we have that in common. Our energy functions in a similar kind of pattern. And we're supposed to work and show up and work out and eat and those kind of things in a similar type of way. And then your authority is the way that you're supposed to make decisions. So it's literally the way that your intuition functions, which to me was a huge revelation because everyone was always like, listen to your gut,

listen to your gut. And it's like, okay, but what does that feel like? And actually, according to human design, what they say is that everyone has a different type of intuition. It doesn't look the same or feel the same to everyone. So again, it's just this model of like, we're not all homogenous. And that's what your authority or your intuition will tell you is like how your specific intuition functions. And then your profile is more like your personality. And there's 12 different, let's say, types of profile. And each one is kind of like an archetype, right? So it's like how you come across to others, how you think of yourself, some of your sort of like personality traits, let's say. So for example, you and me could have the same energy type, we could have

a different intuition, and we could have a different profile. So it would create like slight differences in, you know, in our design. And this is just the first three layers. I mean, there's like, so many more to it. But that's sort of the overview of if you if you know, just those three things about you, it can really just start to make big shifts in your life. So to go back to the types, would you be able to break down the types of human design that we can fall into the category? Uh-huh. So there are five energy types. And again, it's nothing to do with personality. It's to do with like, what does your engine look like to create and do in this world? So the first one you have is manifestors. Manifestors are about

eight, 9% of the population. And they're really those people who just get these like big spontaneous urges to do something. And when they do, they have such a powerful energy and aura that other people just kind of like follow along with whatever they do. So what I a powerful energy and aura that other people just kind of like follow along with whatever they do. So what I mean by that is like the manifestor is the type of woman, and I know so many women, and this is exactly what's happened, is like all of a sudden they wake up one day and they're like, I'm going to move my family halfway across the world, and just the whole family just goes with them, and they just decide on a whim, and then all of a sudden 10 days later they're in a new house, all sorted, all done, whatever. But manifestors are people who are either functioning at 200% or they're functioning

at 50%. So their energy is in these like big waves and surges. So it's really big when it's big, but then it needs to kind of crash afterwards. So think about like that in the work pattern, like they're just not built for nine to fives. Then you have generators. And generators are people like Oprah and JLo and Beyonce. They're those kind of people where if I describe they have like a sparkly kind of magnetic energy, where when they're happy, and they're in a good mood, doesn't really matter what kind of job they're doing. People just want to be all about whatever it is they're doing, right? People just want to follow be near, it's like a very attractive type of thing. And that's because when they're doing things that excite them,

they have this engine inside them that can just go and go and go all day. And what happens is it's producing a life force inside their bodies. And when they're happy and they're stoking that life force, the life force kind of like overflows out of them and there's excess. And then you have manifesting generators. So manifesting generators are a hybrid of the first two, manifestors and generators. And they have the sort of spontaneity of the manifester and also the engine and the capability to hum along and keep going like the generator. So how that looks is they're the kind of people who they can sustain a lot, but they have that spontaneous energy. So what does that mean? It it's usually that it's like the classic multi-hyphenate person, right? It's a singer, dancer, producer, DJ, like whatever. And they always are like onto something new. They get bored of things really

quick. They're like trying to do like multiple different things at the same time. So it's like, somehow it just all makes sense in those people because they own it. But often manifesting generators, they're so afraid of doing things that's unconventional or that people tell them is never going to work. Or they're so afraid to give things up because you have to finish what you start or whatever the thing is. And so that stops them from getting to a place where they are like, you know, so self-actualizing those types. Exactly. And then you have projectors, projectors like you and me. And the thing about projectors is that we don't have the same engine as generators and manifesting generators. And we don't have those big surges of like manifestors do. So projectors, because we're not kind of, I guess, mired with our own strong engine,

we're really able to tap into other people's engine and observe like patterns and systems and how things work. And we can spot what things that are missing and we can spot inconsistencies and where things could be made a bit more efficient. And so what they say is that projectors are really the guides of society, meaning a lot of the work that we do is about helping people improve something that is already existing. So projectors typically have a couple of things that they're fascinated by. And those are the things that they really need to understand that those fascinations aren't random. It's life trying to make you a pro at something at a specific niche. And there's a certain specific way that you see it that other people don't. And you need to, you know, get really honed in on that. And that's what you're going to end up,

one of the things you'll end up sharing in your lifetime and helping everybody else do what they do, but better. So it isn't about us doing, it's about us guiding because that's the good use of your energy. And then you have reflectors and reflectors are only 1% of the population. And reflectors are the ultimate chameleons. They can take on exactly what the environment is and they just become so many like different things depending on who's around them, what situation they're in. And the cool thing about reflectors is that, you know, how that saying says like, oh, you know, what you see in others is what you what's really in you or, you know, that sort of principle. It's like magnified times 100 in reflectors because

they're so open and they're so receptive and they're the most prone to taking on other people's energies. The biggest difficulty for reflectors though is like, especially in the spiritual world, it's like, know who you are. Like, who are you? Like, you should know your branding. You should get this. And like, actually they're not supposed to be that fixed. They're supposed to be much more malleable and flowing. And again, we don't live in a world where that's okay. So each type has their benefits. And then there's usually one kind of big theme of deconditioning that everyone in that type tends to share. Projectors, for example, like, instead of trying to keep up with the rest of the world, we have to really set our own energy patterns and see that that's going to give us success much quicker than

trying to, you know, go all day and keep up with everybody else and kind of not accept our slowness. you know, go all day and keep up with everybody else and kind of not accept our slowness. Yeah. I mean, and also I'm a tourist, so I'm like very homely as well. And I think I, I battled with that for a while because, well, people view that as like laziness or you're not being productive. I have to carve out that space for myself to just absorb and observe and just be in order to know actually how I'm going to be able to take a step forward rather than just like spinning round in circles all the time, which is what I was doing before. And I just get burnt out. Yeah, 100%. And you always know when something isn't working for you, when you don't feel good. There's no more divine way of being able to tell that, you know,

just tweak some stuff. And it's not that we ever get to a place. Something needs to change. Yeah. Also, one of the things that really I found super informative was, you know, my whole life, I would have a desire to do something. I have a dream. I have an aspiration. There's something that I want to create in the world.

And I would always be waiting for someone to tell me I could do it. And I think there's two parts to that. There's one that's, you know, lacking in the ability to have my own authority over what I want to achieve. But also when I learn about my human design, that my strategy is being invited, that I need an invitation. Yeah. So your strategy is how you manifest. And I don't mean manifest in terms of like writing a list and that kind of thing. Manifest isn't like make things happen in the world, like how you create stuff on the physical plane. So your strategy, what's interesting is that again, we've all been taught that from this head place, we have to like figure out what we're going to do and then do it. And the difficulty with that

is, again, if you're not listening to the signals that come to you that tell you, okay, this is a good thing to do, this is not a good thing to do. And you're just going to plow on ahead anyway, you might still get to some level of success, but it's like beating three doors down. And when you just could open one, you know what I mean? So you're just churning and wasting a lot of energy if you don't take time for us to like listen to the signals. So with projectors, the strategy of how we make things happen in the world when it's being invited, and what I mean by being invited is, if what you're here to do is to see and guide, instead of trying to tell 100 people what to do, you kind of have to only speak to people who actually want to guide. Instead of trying to tell 100 people what to do, you kind of have to

only speak to people who actually want to know what you are going to share. Right? Because if you try super hard to preach to the choir and do everything, I was a super bossy kid, because I didn't obviously understood how this worked. And I was like, trying to rule everybody. And all ended up happening. I was bitter. I was annoyed. I felt like no one heard me. No one listened to me. That's a huge thing. Those are very big common things for projectors to feel when we're not being very, very laser focused about, okay, what is it that I see firstly? And second, who's genuinely wanting this information and let me direct all of my energy to the people that want it because that will ensure that I get some kind of return, right? I'm not just spitting my advice and, you know, getting on my high horse with my ego and telling everyone what

to do. It's like, okay, you have a certain need. I can fulfill it. Let's exchange energy. Like maybe you'll receive money in return, or maybe you have something set up around that, or maybe you'll receive gratitude or it will bring you a different opportunity. But it's always going to make sure that you're not just throwing a ball against a wall and getting smacked back in the face. Yeah, absolutely. The other thing that I wanted to ask you was the authority. So where you make your decisions from. That for me is splenic. This is really interesting because you are that person who has the instinctive, like still small voice inside you, that's always telling you where to go. It's the real, what we call the sixth sense. You know what I mean?

But the thing about the sixth sense is that often we kind of crowd her out or him out with, you know, the voice of the mind, the voice of logic, the voice of conditioning. So the, the spleen, the instinct. Yeah. So the instinct, you know, you kind of need to reinforce it and listen to it when it comes in so that it knows that it can speak to you more and more. So the thing with the spleen is that it's never going to lead you wrong. You just need to know to, you know, even though it doesn't make sense, it's worth listening to. Even if you can't do what your intuition, this applies to everyone with their intuition. Even if you can't do what your intuition tells you to do right now, at least just make a mental note of it, because then that's at least

acknowledging that you're hearing it, right? The thing about your spleen is you go very quick at making decisions, you're right in the moment, you don't need a ton of time to decide. Because the spleen is only going to speak to you once. And it's in that moment, it's not going to keep reminding you, it's not going to come later, it's going to come to you as things are happening. So it's really a feeling. You know what I mean? It's really that sense of like, oh, it's a to me, be true today. That could be that micro or it could be like, this guy's wrong straight away. First date. Like, don't know why, you know, maybe I don't need to go on 10 more dates to like logicify it. I just sense it. That's what the spleen is. Yeah. And that completely resonates with me. And I think I'm quite good a lot of the time with

making those decisions, but also equally, I have a terrible problem with procrastinating. So that seems to be slightly, I don't know, perhaps I'm not listening enough because I think, like you say, it's that initial hit and that voice. And then if you don't act on that and you start going to logic and weighing everything up, then it just becomes a nightmare. Yeah. Then it's like treading through mud to get back to it. But I think we think of spirituality and personal growth in terms of like binary, like you're either doing it or you're not. And actually there's so many shades of gray in the middle. And the last day, like when you get to be perfect should be your last day on earth, right? So it's all about a progression. We don't have much patience for being just constantly better,

but it means that there's always new levels, right? So that's, it's a, it's a blessing. Like, thank God we don't all have exactly what we want to be today. Cause then it wouldn't make the journey fun. So, you know, with all these things, it's just about, OK, I'm just going to try and do a little bit more today than yesterday. And that's what activates literally like the entire fabric of the universe, because we live in a quantum universe. When you signal that you are improving, everything around you shifts to support that. Yeah, I love that. Have you noticed an increase like very recently in people's appetite for human design? It's absolutely mad. When I first started to do human design, I didn't even want to make it a big blob thing. Like, I was so kind of ashamed of it because I came from like

wanting to like run a business and have a food business and it's all hustle and this and that. And I was like, shit, I'm like giving all this up. It was in my second return, actually. I'm giving all this up to basically like, what am I going to do? Like be Mystic Meg on the lottery? Like I was like, I don't know where this is going to lead. And then I just, it's, that's the beautiful process of just letting life kind of show you to where your next level is. If you're doing something that is so right for you, it's going to start by sounding small and insignificant, but then it grows if you're really, you know, dedicated to it. So the first probably six months I was doing it, I just was doing one thing, a referral, a person, a this or that. And then afterwards I went on a podcast and then since then it's just been like

going and going and going. Would you say that it's really always felt very aligned with your purpose doing this? So it's interesting. So according to human design, you know, the framework that we look at things is your interests and the things you're naturally good at, like where do they intersect? So when you look at things that way, it doesn't mean that I'm only supposed to be a human design reader and I came here to be specifically a human design you know expert or whatever so we think about so much like oh is it the perfect job for me or am I the perfect person for this job but actually it's a good job for you is a thing that allows you to shine the special gifts and the special skills that you came here to to shine

through so that in theory there could be you know 10, I don't know, maybe 100 things I could do. Yeah, but it's about the energy that I bring to them. But having said that, I was always good at certain things. Like I was always good at explaining complex things in simple ways. I was always good at understanding very scientific things quite easily. And I was always good at I guess, like, having an easy grip on slightly more woo woo I guess like having an easy grip on slightly more woo-woo subjects and sort of grounding them. So all those things seem to fit to serve me to what I'm doing now. Whereas like, for example, if there was someone else who was fascinated with human design and they were really good at drawing, then I would, if I was really good at drawing, I would be making like beautiful custom handmade charts for people and like making them really pretty or wall art or whatever

there's so many different ways that you can plug your skills into the thing you're interested in I love that and so for people listening if they're at that sort of perhaps a little bit of a crisis point with needing a redirection how can they use this to inform the next steps they take and also to you know become fully aware of their interests and their passions and their skills so I think that there's two things one the whole point of the app is to have it literally at your fingertips so you can get the reinforcement because I think what's powerful in terms of growth is not just learning as much as you can about as many different things because that isn't going to change your life. It's about constant reminding yourself of the very few things that are true, not few, but you know, much less amount of things

that are really true for you and consistently reminding yourself, because I'm sure you've heard something said to you 10 years ago. And then you thought you totally understood it, right? And then you kind of come back to it or you hear it again now, and you're like, oh, but it also applies to this, and I see a whole new way that it could have been and da-da-da. And I think the reinforcement is wild. So, you know, the power of, like, meditation and subconscious reprogramming is really happening

because it's about, like, actually taking charge of reminding yourself this stuff all the time. It's like put the positive voice in your head. Reinforcement. At least to balance out all the negative stuff we create ourselves and also receive from the outside world. And then also, I mean, the app will tell you everything you're supposed to be doing, the theme of your life, your life path, how your energy functions, how your digestion functions, your best environment, your strongest of your six senses, all that stuff. But I also

am a huge fan of saying to your people that you think you really feel seen by and say, what do you think I do so easily that I'm not even noticing that because it just takes barely any effort for me. And I think that's a really powerful, free way to start. Yeah, which is something that's so overlooked, because I think we get so stuck in our own way because we have all these stories and this narrative about like you know what our parents told us we should be what happened at school how we like view ourselves within society all these things that keep us in this like really rigid place and we have very little awareness often over like the things that are so uniquely

and wonderfully our own but because they're so effortless to us we're like oh things that are so uniquely and wonderfully our own but because they're so effortless to us we're like oh well that that couldn't really be a thing I'm going to keep trying the thing that's really hard yeah isn't working yeah and it won't necessarily be like completely aligned but I think you're right in terms of having those conversations with people and just talking it out because there'll be certain things that were like oh I didn't realize that that actually wasn't something that everybody can do. And perhaps that is something I could follow because it's definitely been my experience. And it's often the things, you know, that have the least resistance, the things that feel very natural and effortless

that like, and then everything just kind of flows with it. And that's sometimes what we should be doing. 100%. And if you think about the perfection of that model, it's like, if you believe in God, the universe, some kind of creative force, you know, I'm just going to be basic here. Like if you're going to be the one who's meant to be plumbing,

I'm going to make plumbing easy for you because then that's efficient. And that's also our way of being able to tell who should be doing what. And doing what you're supposed to be doing is the best gift you can give to other people because you're showing up and you can contributing in the way that you're meant to contribute. And that's when you know that everything you do is going to benefit people benefit society the most and whatever way you're going to do that. So in many ways, like the most spiritual thing you can do is not go into the

spiritual industry. It's to do what is aligned for you, because that is how you serve people the highest. Reverse engineer it and make it work for your skills and not make yourself fit in the box of the skills that we already see are like working or like guaranteed success or that kind of thing that we, those outside metrics. And to sort of play the devil's advocate in this conversation for this particular part, what about when people meet a tremendous amount of resistance for something that actually might be part of their unique mapping that they should be doing, but they just can't get out of their own way? Asking for a friend. Yeah. And that's a great question. And I love, I really appreciate the fact that it's nuanced, right? But sometimes, you know, the reason that you meet resistance is because it's not an aligned career for you. But also it's because sometimes there's a way that you're showing up that the universe is trying to get you to change. So that could be like a belief system behind that's

driving you while you're doing it. Or it could be the reason why you're doing it, the things you believe around it. So I'll give you an example. So when I was recording this app, there was one time when I was trying to audio record everything and it was really stressing me out. Okay. So that's a micro moment within my career. It didn't make me question my whole entire career, but it didn't feel good. And I was like not being able to record them properly. And I was like super slow and it was not happening and everything. And it's because I was thinking that I had to do in this like fancy studio and like, you know, show up with all my stuff and have tons of people and, you know, all that kind of thing. And then I was like, you know what, there's something about this is actually stunting me. And it's having a lot of other people around me telling me to stop, start, stop, start. It's

like, again, that was a, that was a conditioning that in a way was kind of going to validate my ego and make me feel special or something. And I'm not joking. You're going to laugh so much. Like when I said, you know what, I'm just going to record all these on one long recording in my robe in the hotel, like that I was staying in at the time. And it just literally, I had 192 to do, and I was trying to do 70 a day. And I literally hit through 110 of them in one day

because it's just the approach. Wow. It's the approach. So sometimes it's the, the little egoic things that are driving us or the things we think we have to do or how it has to look. And we're trying to force that that's also in the way. And then there's another third thing, which sometimes, you know, the universe is going to give you challenges, even when it's aligned, because it's trying to grow you just in the same way that, for example, being in a relationship, there's challenges or having a kid pushes you to be a better person. It's the same with your business, because you're in relationship with your business. You know, there will be times when if you really if you commit to or you decide to do something that is much bigger than where you're at currently, like if you do something that's a real stretch, that's actually one of the biggest ways to

grow as a person because the universe is going to say, all right, well, you've committed, you said you wanted to do this. You have to be this kind of person to hold that. And we're going to freaking fast track you. And the best way to do that, we're so complacent, we don't learn by like pleasurable things. So it has to be like some level of like resistance or discomfort or, you know, that kind of thing. Totally. But equally, I will, I'll add to that as much as it does put those challenges in your path, it will also give you strange sort of synchronistic moments of showing you you're on the right one. And it's such a like it's such a head fuck because you're like well this clearly isn't what I'm supposed to be pursuing because

it feels so hard and there's so much resistance and I can't do it and then something really random will happen that will just like put you back on that path yeah I mean it's real I have this turbulent relationship with music because it's something that feels very authentic and aligned for me but I've never resonated with being the kind of performer that's like you know traditionally we see pop stars doing so I'm like okay well then it isn't for me but then I light up when I am performing and so I'm like well this is really confusing like which one is it you know and so I think what you spoke about how it's like reframing what the traditional model looks like and how you can make it uniquely

your own. And I think that the world we're living in now really allows and facilitates that because you can make things so individual today in a way that is like incredible. Yeah, 100%. You know, looking at the way it's done now. The way it's done now is a product of someone else's decision to do it that way that happened in the past. So the current is not getting us to the future. Anyone who's created a future is because they've innovated past what they've seen and banked on a vision of something different anyway,

which is so hard to do. It sounds so simple. I'm so aware that I'm like, you know, just kind of glossing over one really big, like leap of faith in people. But this is the other cool thing about now is that we see that this current model is breaking down right in front of our eyes. So I feel like on some big collective level, the universe is like, guys, the jig is up. This is not going to be around for for very long so if y'all want to move forward you know think of something different and it's kind of making it easier for us to not bank on the old because the old is just crumbling right in front of our eyes disintegrating before our eyes exactly

yeah and um you know according to the human design calendar we are entering into a new paradigm in 2027 so as we wrap up this era, the things that we created out of lack, out of greed, out of ego, out of all those things, they cannot survive now into 2027. So that's why slowly, slowly from the last 20 years, it's been falling and crumbling that the parts that aren't right about it and aren't aligned for us. And we're just, as we get closer to 2027, we're going to see them crumble at an accelerated rate. So we are all getting also the fire under our ass to just, you know, start living according to a new way of doing things. Yeah. Now the next era is all about individuality. And again, you can already see that coming in where people are

working for themselves. More people are more sovereign. People are more liberated. Right now, everyone is being pushed to think about what they want for their lives and not listen to other people. So that's kind of what 2027 is about is, you know, it's all going to be about the individual and becoming as individualized and de-homogenized as possible. So before I let you go, is there anything else that you would like to add for our, for our listeners? Oh,

that's such a good question. I think the first thing that came to mind is like, right. As you're asking that question is like, there's nothing wrong with you. You're inherently a genius at something, but it's just that the world is not affirming that to you because it isn't currently built for that.

There's a great quote that says everybody is a genius, but if you teach a fish to climb a tree, it's going to spend its whole life believing that it's stupid. And that's really what this is about. It's about saying, I'm not going to try to fit into the way things work in all of our ideas of how that is. Let me try to really like base my world off of who I am. I love this conversation with Jenna. And immediately, as soon as I started speaking to her, she felt like a friend that I've had forever. Whenever I dive back into human design, I always find it so fascinating because it reminds me and hopefully you guys as well that we're not all supposed to operate in the same way. And this is such a great tool for giving yourself the grace and allowing yourself to be different. A big part of our Saturn Returns

journey is we have to decondition a lot of beliefs that were in place through society, through our family, through the friendship groups we've been brought up in and cause us to question really what we're about, what we value and how we want to show up in the world. So human design is a great way of navigating this if you're feeling a little bit uncertain and really coming home to the things that naturally light you up, that naturally connect and feel in alignment. I love this piece about not feeling our intuition the same way. And you know, when she said everyone always goes, oh, trust your gut. Well, what intuition feels like for me might be totally different from what

it feels like for you. And I think that's a really important thing to take away is tuning into what actually it feels like when something's telling you something's wrong or something's telling you to go forward and noticing the uniqueness for your physical feeling of what comes up. If you would like to learn a little bit more about human design, you can find Jenna on Instagram at Jenna Zoe and you can download her app Human, by visiting myhumandesign.com. You can also follow our astrological guide, Nora, on Instagram at Stars Incline, myself at Kagi's World, and the podcast at Saturn Returns Co. If you enjoyed this episode, please do follow the show and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, or just share it with a friend you think might find it useful. Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production.

The producer is Hannah Varrell and the executive producer is Kate Taylor. Thank you so much for listening and remember, you are not alone. Goodbye.