Saturn Returns with Caggie - 4.2 From Good Girl to Sorceress with Brita Fernandez Schmidt

Episode Date: September 27, 2021

If you are a people pleaser, or strive to identify as a ‘good girl,' this episode is for you. Brita is a public speaker, transformational coach, and an advocate of women's empowerment, women's rights and equality. She previously served as the Executive Director of Women for Women International, working in conflict-affected countries to support the most marginalised women. She then heard the call to change her career, becoming a transformational coach and writing a book, Fears To Fierce: A Woman’s Guide to Owning Her Power. In this episode, Brita and Caggie discuss hope, integrity, holding space, and how pain can lead to our greatest transformation. This episode contains some distressing stories and therefore might not be suitable for every listener. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. But I remember that day, I was like, this is it. I will never give up hope. I will always find hope. My guest today is author, public speaker and transformational coach Britta Fernandes-Schmidt. Britta worked in the not-for-profit sector for many years advocating for women's health, rights and empowerment. She recently published her first book, Fierce to Fierce, a woman's guide to owning her power,

which uses a combination of guidance, a woman's guide to owning her power, which uses a combination of guidance, storytelling and practical tools to inspire readers. After reading her book, I really wanted to speak to Britta because I found her ability to hold space and create hope for people in what feels like the most hopeless of moments really inspiring. Just so you know, we talk about Britta's previous job, which brought her into contact with some really tough stuff. And that section might not be suitable for everyone. So please take care when listening. Britta was one of the first people to record with me in my new home. And as you will hear, there's a little bit of background noise, which I apologize

for. I was so consumed by our conversation, I didn't quite realize the building work that was going on next door, but hopefully you won't notice it. We dive straight in at the start and I start asking Britta about how she would describe herself and her work. But before we get to this beautiful conversation, let's hear from our astrological guide, Nora. Let's hear from our astrological guide, Nora. seasons and in turn inform four different main female archetypes. There is the maiden, linked with the spring and the waxing moon, and she is the vibrant, young, beautiful woman that is also widely accepted by society's male gaze. Then there is the mother, linked with the summer and the full moon. Again, an archetype that is not only admired by patriarchal norms, but also encouraged as an archetype for all women to strive towards.

We've all felt it and we all know it. It's the good girl trope. Then the moon moves into its waning phase, associated with the autumn. This female archetype is a wild woman. She embraces her independence, sexuality, and shadow side. She is the woman who understands the magical qualities of this world, the irrational, the genius, the passionates, and the dark side of herself, and those around her, and she transmutes it all into healing.

She is the witch, the shaman, the woman that the uninitiated man, the fragile part of male consciousness, has tried to reject and burn at the stake ever since man was created. She is Lilith, a symbol for the woman who in choosing equality over submission and in embracing her inner quote-unquote bad girl, emancipates herself from old patriarchal ideals and creates a legacy of her own. Then we move towards the last female archetype, the new moon, the winter. A time where all the accumulated wisdom of all the three previous female archetypes integrate and give us the wise woman. The woman that has lived and continues to live a life where she

embraces the light and the darkness. She doesn't shy away from intensity but doesn't get consumed by it either. She is highly intuitive and represents the high priestess in tarot, guarding the gaze between the seen and unseen. She guides those that need it and she has fully integrated her inner feminine and her inner masculine as depicted by the moon joining the sun during its dark phase. Away from the gaze of all yet deeply felt in the wisdom the collective feminine continues to express generation after generation we're not just one archetype we're all of them i have just always felt a really deep passion for as long as I can remember for reaching out and connecting with others in a sense that I could feel the potential that we all have and of wanting to kind of touch

your arm and say can you see this can you see what I? Can I show you what I see? You know, the sense that so many of us and me included don't see it about ourselves. We forget. Maybe at one point we knew and we felt it and then we lose it. And then there's this like slow journey of recovering it. And I guess this seeing has been really, really important to me and allowing myself to really acknowledge that I can see the light in other people and and I want to do you think that through allowing others to be seen and encouraging that it in turn allows you to yeah 100 it's a mirror and I think this so often I mean now I was just telling you I'm just just doing a further qualification as a deep transformational coach. And when you create the deep connection amongst two individuals in a coaching environment, it's like a spiritual partnering. So what I sense in you and the space that I hold for you to evolve and for your deepest essence to emerge, that is facilitated through my deep essence emerging

and that's when we then can actually love ourselves more fully because you touched on a moment ago how you know whether it's something that we have and we disconnect from and then have to come back home to which i think is such a relatable theme and especially applicable to the Saturn Returns journey because it's all about kind of coming home to yourself what was that experience like for you in terms of reconnecting to your truth there were definitely a number of moments I think the one big moment for me was moving to Venezuela at the age of 15 from Germany and being exposed to a very different culture and witnessing extreme poverty and I and I just felt it in the core of my being I was just like this fire that was erupting and I was like hi hello anybody this is not okay

like this is not normal I mean normal I don't like the word normal anyway but what is going on here you know and and why isn't anybody outraged about it and that then started the journey of of wanting to follow that fire but at the same time the pressure of feeling like an outsider and not seeing told me what it is out absolutely being told to put it out again you just quiet you know can you just be a little bit less loud a little bit less intense right and I did I about you know abided by that and um but only to a certain extent because I did follow that fire you know I decided after school to go and study women's studies and that was 25 years ago and no one was doing that at the time and And then there was another moment and that was when I was being bullied at work and I kind of allowed it

because it was playing into this sense that I didn't want to be difficult. I didn't want to be the one calling it out. And I was also distraught, like, am I allowed to call this out because I'm not perfect? You know, I make mistakes. It really played into this having to be a good girl my biggest

limiting belief is that I have to be a good girl and in order to be a good girl you know you're not loud you're not difficult you don't disagree you know you fit in you have to fit in because I deep down I know I'm not a good girl, right? Because no one is. Because we all have shadow sides. Of course. Of course we do, right? But this belief, like, I have to be a good bird,

keeps you at bay because you deep down know you're not good girl. And so I was like, oh, completely paralyzed. It's seen completely. Exactly, exactly. So it wasn't about me because I was definitely in that bind. But it was when I saw that this was affecting those around me in two ways. A, other people were being bullied by the same person. And B, people were seeing me being bullied and not speaking up.

And that was the killer for me because then I thought, I don't want my daughters to look at me for example and learn that you should accept that being right I had an experience really recently when there was a lot of I guess it was like bitchiness and bullying going on and I didn't say anything and afterwards I felt icky and I was like I wish I called that out and next time I will and it doesn't have to be this big like scene it's just acknowledging because otherwise you are ignoring your own boundaries and your own integrity right integrity so that was a key key realization for me Kagi and the word integrity is immensely important to me has like this incredible energy to it right it really is this because it's integra it's like it's it's links to wholeness and and being being all that you are and realizing that you don't have to be perfect

you don't have to be a good girl to uphold your boundaries and to say in a feminine and loving way no this is not okay and you know what there was this breakthrough I was reading um the four agreements by Don Miguel Reese and one of the agreements is be impeccable with your word and not just a word that you speak to others but the words that you speak to yourself and when I tuned into that and I was listening to how I was speaking to myself throughout all of that period of the bullying I was scolding myself like I was reinforcing the bully worse than the bully and that's when I thought okay that has to stop I was petrified I was shaking but I knew there was no way back and then once I had done it it was like a weight had been lifted it was a release of course

yeah how did you handle that conflict how did you know how to handle that conflict so there is this sense that you want to rush it pull up the plaster because otherwise you're not going to not do it but then I also have the sense no you can trust yourself and you can trust that you know exactly what you need to do but you need to take a breath and that's what I did I took a breath and I thought okay if you engage in the energy that is creating the bullying that's when that's what I did I took a breath and I thought okay if you engage in the energy that is creating the bullying that's when that's why I said it's fighting fire with fire exactly and that's also then when you lose your integrity because then you feel like you're reacting

instead of stopping deep breath and say how do I want to act from this place of integrity from this place of loving everything within me the good the bad and the ugly you know that bits that are imperfect but that still does not mean that anyone should treat me like this and so I actually took my time and I and I talked to several people I trusted and I asked for advice how I should handle the situation yeah and then I drew up a plan and and I followed it through and actually the the person was let go because I hadn't been the only person yes but I had been the person who actually said something yeah that's amazingly brave it felt super brave this was not just about challenging a bully no this was about a big awakening moment for me to believe that I have the

right to test the universe yes yes big and I think with all these things I think when we start awakening that part of ourselves and perhaps reading learning listening finding a community and then the tests come and they are uncomfortable and to also be able to show up with love and vulnerability like you did in that because you talk a lot in your book about love and you know how we can show that and I think it does get this slightly like oh woo woo you know soft but it's it's not oh no exactly it's the fiercest thing you can do isn't it I mean you know I have just had this incredible privilege of working with women and communities in in contexts where there's been immense trauma and conflict. Yeah. Would you be able to share some of those stories?

Because you have experienced and seen some injustices that I would never even be able to fathom. Because what I was thinking before this conversation was that I'm very aware of my privilege and my life and the sort of space that I'm occupying at the moment which I think is doing amazing things but I'm also very aware that you know talking about manifestation and all this stuff it's like it's it's a privilege you know it's a complete luxury and reading your book and hearing about some of the things you've seen and experienced I'm like that is really going to the depths of things and seeing the darkness actually that humans can do to one another yeah I guess so one story that comes to mind is a young girl that I met Beatrice in Ethiopia and she was only 13 when I met her and we're standing there with the translator and she told me her story. And I mean, just unimaginable levels of trauma.

You know, at four, she had female genital mutilation, which basically obviously cutting of the different forms of it. It's basically inverse cutting of her genitals and which often then leads to infection, cutting of her genitals and which often then leads to infection which then means that you smelly and then you get you know bullied because of that and outcast because of that and then she was from a very poor family and in Ethiopia and in many countries there are traditions of early enforced marriages mainly because of the poverty so you marry your daughter off and you get a dowry and the daughter really then becomes the property of the husband and so Beatrice was married off at the age of 11 to a 40 year old man who then raped her every evening he was an alcoholic and um

you know I will never in my life forget this this was a life-changing moment you know I will never in my life forget this this was a life-changing moment listening to her story and so much pain it washes over you and um it's very hard not to drown in it to be honest and at that time I was much younger and I felt myself drowning in it and um generally had a moment where I just thought okay I think I've lost hope like how do we do this to each other you know and and there was something in me though that kind of thought no you know but but you can't lose hope I mean you you cannot lose hope because you know there's Beatrice just standing next to me and she's just entrusted this story to me. And it's kind of like I'm holding, now I have the language, I'm holding that space for her.

I didn't have that language at the time, you know, it was. You were going to say, yeah. Yeah, and this question came to me and I spoke it out before I had even, you know, like channeling. Literally now I'd say it was a channel. I channeled a question, which was like, you know, what is your hope? You know, what's your dream? And as I was saying it, I'm like, oh, my God, Britta, how can you see that?

So my kind of intellect was criticizing me, but my spirit had known exactly what to say. Because in that moment, I saw Beatrice's face lit up. It was literally like a light had gone on it was unbelievable and she smiled and she said I want to learn English oh god so you can find hope anywhere that must have been a really transformational moment for you as well completely 100 i mean i was committed i had my purpose i was already on my journey but that moment i remember i mean i absolutely traumatized me in many ways and it took me a while to you know stop crying and to make peace with it but i remember that day i was like this is it i will never give up hope I will always find hope that's what I'm going to do

how did you learn to be able to hold that space and not take it on you know that is a huge responsibility and how did you find the ways to the tools to cope with that and you know it's so because now it is the beauty of hindsight right because this is like 15 years ago or so or 20 years ago and i that was a life-changing moment and it was it felt like the universe was setting me up to go in a certain direction and it's now here where i'm sitting where i'm doing this deep transformational coaching at the moment where I literally I hold space and the other day I had a client and this really deeply traumatic moment emerged but had been hovering and hadn't come out and this pain came into the space and it was so

big and I remember thinking I can hold it and I just made the space bigger and there was endless room for more pain if there would have been more pain and I was just holding it and I wasn't I wasn't scared I wasn't drowning in it I was just holding and I just thought this is what a gift that I can hold that pain because then when you can do that without getting drowning in it that's a healing moment it's when you can you and them exactly because like to echo what you said at the beginning it's like you go deeper and they do and it's medicinal for both of you. Exactly. God, I feel very emotional. Because what it made me think of is, and you've touched on this in the book, is that we aren't good in general at pain, at holding space for our own pain or each other's. And we live in a world where we want to pretend it doesn't exist.

and we live in a world where we want to pretend it doesn't exist but you know even having this conversation it's like the feet like i'm getting emotional it's not necessarily sad it's not sadness it's just feeling yes just feeling a lot and that's what i think that we don't realize is we numb the pain we numb everything everything as you heal yourself and you hold yourself right you become whole and you don't feel the need to somehow put up shields or hold things back because you feel you're not whole and therefore you're not worthy then how and it's like you say it's not necessarily sad it's just feeling feeling so much and it's about allowing that and and sitting in it and yeah maybe we don't understand it but we don't have to understand it yes that's it we're also that it's so different from the western sort of shrink like rationalizing and intellectualizing

everything and it's like just you've got to feel it out you've got to release it from your body and you've just got to express it in whatever way what are the ways like in terms of learning how to hold space for yourself because you can't hold space for anyone else until you can do it for yourself so what are how does that feel like for you yeah I just really recently probably like a few weeks ago I had this really big moment where I as part of the training you have to listen to coaching sessions as well to you know understand how these dynamics work and I was listening to a coach holding space for someone else and I was had been having this raging headache the whole weekend and it wasn't until I listened to this other session and I heard the coach say you know you can okay so shall we go to your pain make space really go into the pain and make some more space for the pain and I'm like

oh oh maybe I could make some space for this pain that I've been feeling when you're coaching you're in your heart space because you're connecting with another and the way you connect with another is through your heart space it's not through your head it never is right so I was in my heart space I'm like oh okay okay okay let's make some space and literally as I was visualizing making space my headache was literally shifting by the measure that I was making space for just making room for the pain because the pain was bigger than my head literally literally right exactly was giving me a headache and and so by bringing it down in hard space and then making space suddenly the pain could like just decontract exactly right and it wasn't as they just didn't

completely go away but i'm like oh okay okay so so i would all of you i would encourage you next time when there's something that you you know you start clenching your jaw or you like your eyebrows go down or you look your headache is really or whatever you maybe you feel in your tummy is really tight go put you draw your energy to that place and create space just say i can hold this i cannot you need some more space okay let's make some more space just that you are always stronger than you think that you can hold that pain we have a capacity to hold pain that is just unbelievable it's miraculous what you just spoke about reminded me because i've just moved into this new place and one of my friends came around to do like an energy clearing she said that the

energy gets stuck in corners and I was like why and she's like well it's just the way that it you know it is because the openness like it can move and it can go out and so it's kind of the same principle it's like when I think when we initially start feeling something we're so wired to be like oh no make that small hide that away put it in a box bury it and like then it starts manifesting in headaches chronic pain all these kind of things right and so in those moments so instead of resisting oh hello there you are again okay do you want some space yeah because the minute you give it space it's kind of of like, okay, it's gone again. That's so fascinating.

It's so... Because I also, this is going to sound, I mean, this is the most versatile problem ever, but I have spent the last decade in various ways keeping myself small, literally and figuratively. So I've been living in other people's places, like just slotting in. And then now I've got this place and as soon as

I came in I freaked because I suddenly was like I can't I'm too small for this I can't take up this space and it was this really weird resistance that I had for the first like two weeks where I was just like I don't deserve to be in the space I should go back and be smaller and I can't manage it and everything like that so I'm just like you've got all the space you need my questioning friend come in and take a seat but it was really it was a really fascinating thing that I went through because it was just I think whenever we grow there's resistance that we have to meet. Of course, love is just the process of our becoming. I literally had this image just now, literally, that you are giving yourself permission to fill this space. And I had this incredible experience just a couple of days ago, actually.

I was doing a meditation focusing on I am and the power of these words i am i mean it even has a right has a vibration to it right and the more you say it the more you can really feel your power and it can become scary like you say because it's just like whoa okay i've got all this power like and because the next thing is what am i going to do with it I don't have to you don't even have to do anything with it you just have to be it and I had this a meditation when I was meditating on I am and I and the voice the meditation voice was saying you know you have everything you've done has led you to this point right now right here you know what is wanting to emerge and and I have this vision of a just magnificent sorceress and she had this she was really tall and just strong and just gorgeous black bluey long kind of cape and I was like oh wow and I kind of had this sense like oh this I want to be her

and I suddenly saw oh it's me I love that and so this is I think this is the same thing this is exactly the same thing because then as I as I allowed myself to recognize that it was actually me it started to fill me that's so powerful I actually just to share a similar thing when I I moved to LA when I was 27 and that's kind of when I went on this journey and I remember at the time I felt very lost and unsure of myself but I always had this vision of this woman that was at the end of a road and she was in this house and I remember like seeing her at the window and I was like that's how I want to be and then I remember like more recently I was like I'm her which I say obviously with a lot of resistance and don't want to sound like again because it doesn't feel comfortable to be like I am who I want to be you know because people will be like oh that's arrogant or whatever but it's like I took a long

time to to get there and so did you and that doesn't mean that it's the end of the journey but it's like you're stepping into that space and then you continue to kind of grow and expand I am who I want to be you said that I am who I want to be and you know kind of thing is when that voice suggests that that's my what did you just say you gave it an arrogant well because I almost just hit the audience thing like what she doesn't follow herself today yeah but i mean well i mean but do they really say that or is that just a voice because they won't because what happened what happens to me when i have someone sitting in front of me say i am who i want to be like thank you because that's a gift to me because that means that that's possible you speak in your book a little bit about writing and journaling.

Does journaling play a big role in your life? Yeah, it does. It does. And it could also be drawing, actually. It could be anything that allows you to tap into the kind of the hard knowing. And I do this sometimes. And I think I say this in my book you know just randomly open your reflections just from old before and read them because you will rediscover yourself because you're changing all the time and you won't remember and then then

it's like a it's like your old self is giving you advice or it's kind of reminding you that you already knew this but you know what i think is even even more important for me is actually that it nurtures this deep trust in your essence in this deep knowing that resides in the heart space rather than the over emphasis always on your intellectual knowing which obviously is super powerful and and wonderful but the way I always think of it now is what I try and do is I try and change where the orchestra director sits so many of us have the orchestra director obviously in our head right and it's conducting everything that we should be doing or should be feeling or should be being and so it's kind of moving the orchestra director down into your heart space

and and from there directing what you're thinking how you're utilizing your intellect and your intelligence you know what you're feeling and and what you're being um which is probably the fundamental i don't want to say problem but with western culture is that we at the orchestra is always like in the head rather than using that as the tool for the heart yes yes because I mean just from an observational point the book and where you've come from in terms of business and work is I can imagine perhaps it was quite uh linear quite corporate and obviously like meeting with you today you were so spiritual and you're so in your heart space has that been a really has that been difficult for you to get that and when

you were writing did you always have that kind of pull back because you don't write as spiritually in the book as you as you are in your energy you know and so wondering whether that was conscious well I mean you know it's been a really recent fully kind of flowering journey I mean genuinely so I was I was I writing the book there's but there's also been a desire I've been reading a lot of spiritual books already whilst I was reading writing my book but I um I mean first of all I never like boxing myself so I actually don't even use the word spiritual that much to be honest yeah because I think it it puts some people off and I think it's a shame that it puts them off because I have to think about how astrology puts people off I'm

like I do a podcast on astrology they're like taxi I'm like okay fine do you know so this is this is really interesting but i i had a lot of conversations with my publisher and my and my agent and the really aim for the book was really to be as accessible um as possible so that as many people and i still have that desire i want as many people as possible to embark on that journey of finding that power within because I know it's transformational for the world and that's also why I've given up my job now and it's why I want to create the school of fears to fears you know I want to create an online training program that anyone can do that's going to be affordable and then one that's guided and you know and I just I just really believe that sort of even doesn't even take that much it just takes space and someone holding that space for you and really believing that it's

possible um there were a couple of things that I wanted to bring in and and you know and kind of my publisher said you know I think better there's just the kind of book that this is let's just keep that out but um but I have another book has come to me. And it's kind of at the moment it's germinating. And I think it's going to be more of a mixture. And I want to bring in some of the language that I'm learning, you know, and just this wholeness that I feel, which is honestly the last two, three months, that it's really been.

And that's through the coaching that you're doing yes exactly and that's given you this language yes exactly it's given me the language for what i've felt for so long i really want to write about uncertainty control allowing and just this just allowing it all the trust exactly which is a big i mean that's chapter four in my book and it's it's a big part of my book trust and love and there's more and particularly with the because i finished the book in february before covid started in march right so so that whole um last 18 months I've learned so much around how uncertainty and lack of control um creates just unbelievable anxiety because of the structures of our society because of this kind of totally and I know a lot of people I've spoken to and it is suddenly

it's it's quite literally things feel sort of out of control and also questioning the whole infrastructure of what we believe to be true because I have also never experienced anxiety until this period and initially because I'm 50 I thought it was maybe perimenopause and now I'm convinced it wasn't and it was anxiety or it is anxiety because I still have those moments and with me they kind of manifest in like literally sweat attacks and my heart and my chest getting tight and just and really having a sense this is not right anymore and the anxiety will stay until we change something that's what I believe but the change is within our capacity that's where I think we are stagnant right now where people are thinking

they have no control they are completely at the mercy of, you know, what government might be saying or this or that. And that's a false belief because we always have a choice. And you said about all the inner work. I mean, there's so much that goes on within us. And I think what this period has brought out is a lot of those limiting beliefs, a lot of those boxes that we've been stuck in a lot of the uncomfortableness that we've always had but we've kind of put it in a cellar and and and now because we're always in the house you know we have to go into cellar more

often and it's like really uncomfortable because there's not enough space right and so are we going to make room are we going to kind of unbox those old boxes and either people have said okay you know what yeah and that's why loads of people are quitting their jobs and they're changing and they're just like okay I'm open and this is me I have no idea what's going to happen you know I literally don't know how I'm going to earn money but I'm just gonna it's not gonna be like before and I do not want to be part anymore of that way of of doing I want to be and I want to see what comes and um and then there are others and other institutions and and people within those institutions who are controlling even more

who like their answer to this opening up has become to be more hierarchical more controlling more rigid just and somehow that if you could just put more structure you know of the same that's got us to where we are right now some of that's going to solve the problem basically a government strategy right now exactly exactly and it's not working and it won't work because I started doing this throughout lockdown because I had a really tough time and there was moments when I could not get out of bed which is not at all like me never okay never and there would come a moment when I said, I just let go. And so I let go and I said, okay, Britta, what do you need? Which I started talking to myself.

This was a breakthrough. This was last September. Since then, I've so much better. I haven't had this anymore. I've not had to be in bed anymore. I literally, it was incredible. Because I just said, okay, what do you need? Do you need to stay in bed?

Yeah, okay, stay in bed. Do you want to watch to watch some netflix no okay we'll just lie here then literally like that no judgment just okay what do you need so instead of asking government so what should i do what should i do which asking 50 million other people ask yourself yeah just like i'm like I'm like yeah obviously it's surely that's the first person and everyone was probably listening we're like didn't ever occur to me because it didn't to me either but until somehow I swear it must have been like it was came in the middle of the night yeah and I think I think that's what I that's what I'm doing every time I have this anxiety I said okay okay what do we need what is this telling me I mean I had um I had a situation recently because I I haven't oddly felt very anxious over the last year I really haven't and but I did have a situation where I went uh for a work trip in Mexico and I

was around people for the first time constantly and I've been on my own and I love being on my own and I found it a lot and I wasn't able to communicate my need to be alone because I didn't want to upset people I didn't want them to think like why is she not coming out or whatever and then there was just one comment or something really insignificant that was made and it just tipped me over the edge and next thing you know it's like I'm full on I don't know whether it was a panic attack or an anxiety attack but I can't breathe I feel completely out of control in my body and it's just you know you didn't say, like, what you need, you know. And we're very good at just abandoning, like, our basic needs because we don't want to make other people feel uncomfortable or whatever.

And it's so silly. It's so hard. It's the hardest. And so I think, you know, in those moments, just then also be kind to say, okay, you know, I didn't listen to myself. I didn't look after myself. And that's not because I'm a bad person. It's because the conditioning is so strong. I mean, you know, I'm like a feminist.

And I have been for years, for ever since I can remember. And yet I'm stuck in the same patterns of, you know, wanting to be seen as a really good mother you know really good wife i don't think it ever goes i don't think it ever goes you just have to create enough space exactly to have the awareness exactly exactly just a space of kind of where there you can have enough room for that little girl who just wants to be loved because that's at the heart of it she just wants to be loved and she thinks she's only going to be safe if everyone else around her is happy even if that means she isn't so I have now created space and I see that and I and I know that that's just a beautiful thing in many ways it kept her safe when she needed it yeah and and now i don't need that anymore

um but i'm also making enough space for the grown-up sorceress i love you know who needs who needs to be alone who needs space who needs to be fierce yes right I kind of feel it's like a playground like you're playing there's no right or wrong and I don't even want any right or wrong anymore right so I'm I'm just experimenting and one day it feels better and sometimes it's well it's all it's all just is isn't it and that that's yeah that's that's kind of I guess my biggest gift to myself and what I want to share with everyone else right now it's just allowing the not allowing that's why it's this huge breakthrough I think um a visual that I find quite helpful and maybe the audience will for this kind of awareness of the child and then it came off the back of going through

something you know relative to my experience that I found traumatic but also in that trauma I realized that I had to have my own back and then also the awareness over that child within and being like okay let's sit with her and actually I mean it's gonna sound kind of like whatever but actually holding her no but then by holding her that's right I in turn know that I'm no longer her yes otherwise we're just going on blindly being navigated by a four-year-old. Exactly. Which is often not great. But I mean, it's so interesting you would say that it sounds woo-woo because it doesn't. It doesn't at all.

And I think like anybody listening, because you speak so authentically from the heart. Everyone knows that this is genuinely what you've experienced. And it's like you're voicing what so many of us feel within us but haven't yet made sense and so by you using those words you're giving permission again Kagi so every time this voice in your head suggests oh it's really silly you shouldn't be saying this listen to the other voice that knows that by you using your voice, you're giving permission to others to find their voice.

That's it. The good girl. This archetype is so heavily ingrained in our society, I think pretty much every woman feels it at one point in her life. When Britta spoke about this, it really resonated with me because I have always wanted to be seen as good. The conditions of being a good girl mean not upsetting people, not saying no when you want to, people pleasing, staying small, fitting in, being agreeable, smiling, being who you need to be to make other people feel comfortable,

often at your own expense. I find Britta's journey of transformation really inspiring because she is stepping out of that space and into that of her sorceress. When she spoke about the sorceress, this vision she had for herself, it really awoke something in me because we go through changes

especially as women as we go through these various archetypes in our lives and it's another word really for the wild woman it's tapping into the divine feminine and there can be a pain in this transformation which you can hear in her story especially when she talks about being bullied at work I think that that's something that people don't speak about very often as adults because we associate bullying with being children but it's something that I can imagine happens a lot more than we think so if this idea of the sorceress or the witch the woman, all of these things activate the divine feminine and if you are leaning into the more esoteric practices which I imagine you are because you're listening to this podcast then I'm sure this is resonating for you. What really fascinated me about Britta,

she has this incredible energy and capacity to hold space. Now this this is a theme we will be exploring throughout the season. It's a term that I use within my friendship circles, within my communities. And it's essentially being able to contain the energy, the emotion, whatever is coming up, being expressed and allowing it, inviting it, making more room for it. allowing it, inviting it, making more room for it. I think we can only hold space for each other when we learn to hold space for ourselves. As she said, as you heal yourself and you hold yourself, you become whole.

You can find more about Britta and her book, Fierce to Fierce, on her website, brittafs.com, or by following her on Twitter or Instagram at BrittaFS. You can also follow our astrological guide, Nora, on Instagram at starsincline, and you can follow me at kagisworld. If you did enjoy this episode, I would love it if you could share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production. The producer is Hannah Farrell and the executive producer is Kate Taylor. Thank you so much for listening and remember you are not alone. Goodbye.