Saturn Returns with Caggie - 4.6 Being a Trailblazer with Candice Brathwaite

Episode Date: October 25, 2021

Author, journalist and TV presenter Candice Brathwaite joins Caggie in this episode to talk about motherhood, role models and manifestation. Candice is a mother of two and a force to be reckoned with. She began blogging in 2016 after seeing a lack of representation for young Black mothers, and since then her career has taken off at a pace that she admits even she feels alarmed by at times. She has written for the likes of Grazia, Harper's Bazaar, Stylist and Huffington Post, presented on TV show Lorraine, and authored two books including I Am Not Your Baby Mother and Sista Sister. She talks passionately about many issues Black mothers face including the statistics about how Black and Asian women are much more likely to die in childbirth in the UK than white women. Caggie and Candice discuss how she has managed to navigate a new, uncharted career path, her support system, and role models - the ones she saw in her childhood as well as the one she wants to be for her own children and for other Black women. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. My eldest, she thinks I'm great and we have a great time and I love her so deeply. I just hope I'm showing her a version, no, I know I'm showing her a version of womanhood that is going to allow her to be free. My guest today is author, journalist and TV presenter Candice Brathwaite. Candice is a mother of two who began blogging in 2016 after seeing a lack of representation for young black mothers. Her first book, I Am Not Your Baby Mother, became a bestseller when it came out last year,

and her second book, Sister, Sister, a collection of essays, was published in summer 2021. As well as writing books, Candice is a contributing editor at Grazia and a presenter on Lorraine. Her writing has appeared in The Guardian, Harper's Bazaar, Stylist, Metro and Huffington Post. She talks passionately about many issues black mothers face, including statistics about how black and Asian women

are much more likely to die in childbirth in the UK than white women. I wanted to talk to Candice because she has become an inspiration for so many. I would say she comes across as very fearless, she's a trailblazer, and she's pioneering her way through uncharted territory in an industry where not everyone knows what they're doing. But I was curious to know the expectations this came with for her and the fears that she faced and how she conquered them. And I was fascinated by what I learned. But before we get to Candice, let's hear from our astrological guide, Nora.

The biggest challenge during Saturn return and inevitably during any major milestone in our adult years, such as getting our first place, becoming a parent for the first time, getting the promotion we always dreamt of, or sometimes even healing a part of ourselves we never thought we could. The examples are endless. The biggest inner challenge or question that keeps playing in the back of our minds during those times is, how do we own up and completely embrace our newfound responsibilities without being completely defined by them, or rather drowned by them? The question of keeping individuality and the quest towards what that could mean for us becomes a natural part of the process during

Saturn transits. We're trying to balance our role in society, in our family, at the workplace, in our social group, whilst also trying to keep the essence of our purpose, of our voice somehow intact. also trying to keep the essence of our purpose, of our voice, somehow intact. And for this, in astrology, tapping into Uranus and the North Node, the more quote-unquote rebellious energies we all possess in the charts, can be extremely helpful. Through understanding them both, we find the key to reveal our more erratic, creative side, the hidden genius, whilst also uncovering the type of purpose our inner child craves and

deeply admires. Saturn's role in all of this is to help build the foundation so we have the freedom to uncover the unapologetic individual expression of ourselves we all undoubtedly possess. We're a little bit chaotic this morning, but is well yes um and how are you feeling today I am feeling a little bit anxious very anxious actually I've got some big projects coming up which are making me quite anxious I'm also really grateful though that those are such opposing feelings to have I've got a seven year old and a three year old. And I'm just having one of those mornings where I'm like, I can't quite believe that my life has panned out the way I wanted it to. But with that comes opportunities to work in a way that is really new to me, especially when you're from like a family or a situation or a place in life

where you don't have many role models up ahead of you. Like I don't, I don't have parents that were in the industries I'm in. Like I'm, I'm the first one with like a little lantern. So I'm quite anxious about the last quarter of this year, to be fair. Do you have anyone that's ever been like a mentor to you or anything like that?

Yes, I have a great mentor and friendship with a guy called Charlie Dark. I've recently struck up a really good friendship mentorship with a producer called Simon Frederick. He's brilliant. And I tell you what I don't have though Kagi I don't have women I don't have like female mentors I just haven't met them and I think maybe that says a lot for the creative industries or many industries where there's that intersection then of being black and female how many of those people are like given the space to be leaders in their fields so maybe I'm just coming across more black men because they only have being black as maybe their issue but then their manhood allows them yeah

their manhood allows them to steam ahead yeah Yeah. Whereas being a black female, it's like, you know, double bubble. And I just wish there was a black woman who was like, and that will go brilliantly because I've done that. And here's the data. And I'm the first in a lot of cases. And it's quite scary. Yeah. Do you have a support system around you? Yeah, a great one. So my husband, the torchbearer, Papa B, and the reason why his support is really, really great is because he very willingly takes on the roles

that society claims are feminine. He is far more domesticated. And this is alongside being my business partner. He's not only taking on that load, he's still helping me run a business so there's him there are my best friends there's my manager Francesca and I recently got I call her the house manager I can't bear the term housekeeper it just feels icky um our house manager Hannah who just knows what the hell is going on in here. They are like my pillars of gold, to be fair.

The glue that keeps your life together, I always describe it as, which is so cute. So as things, like, I would love to hear about some of the projects you've got going on at the moment, but as things are expanding, do you feel that it's at quite a rapid pace that it's almost like, oh my God, this is an overwhelming amount?

Like you said, you're doing so many different things yeah do you know what yes and no and maybe a lot of people listening will understand this the grind has been long yeah I've been working on these elements of my career for at least 11 years and I I took a lot of risks I left a traditionally I'm doing air quotes good job in publishing I literally just quit one day because I was spending the bulk of my day ringing hundreds of bloggers being like oh how much would it be to promote this title and when they were telling me that the what they were charging I was like you are in the wrong job babe and you need to get I was like, you are in the wrong job, babe.

And you need to get, you're in the wrong job. You're on the wrong side of this email. Yeah, you need to get on the other side of the fence. So how are we going to do that? And I'm a Pisces, so I'm all in or I'm out the door. Like it's just, I'm not half-hearted. And I just woke up one day and I was like, oh, and I'm never going back to work. Of course, everyone looked at me like I was insane.

But I had like I'd surveyed the land. I'd seen that blogging or influencing was just where the world was headed. And I wanted to spend time getting ahead of the curve and getting ahead of the curve took ages because between quitting that job and my first paid job, it was four years. because between quitting that job and my first paid job, it was four years. That's a long time. But there's another side of me that's like, oh, my God, slow your roll. I am one person. I cannot possibly write five more books and be here and do this TV show. I can't manage that. And it's about always trying to strike that balance of gratitude and not going insane.

I'm really grateful and also being sure enough of my future but having such faith in myself trusting that when I say no to something that doesn't mean never so is there anything for you that happens and that also allows you to deal with it as it's happening that shifts between you thinking this is all great and this has been 10 years in the making versus this is too much and I'm gonna implode and get overwhelmed and shut down yeah definitely I think one of uh a great lesson for me my dad died 11 years. Really suddenly he had the flu that turned into pneumonia that turned into sepsis. And he died within a week of falling sick. And my dad was

really all about his career, work, work, work, really wanting to achieve. He was a solicitor and a partner of a really prominent law firm. Four later I see his job role being advertised and I'm just like hmm do you know that thing that he that he just worked literally worked himself to death for in my opinion because he never took time off and he just works himself silly for this thing that when his heart literally stops beating he is so easily replaced and you know the only the only job role that cannot be refilled is him being my dad or someone's husband or you know it's those intimate personal relationships and yeah that it was really hard but it's been the most important lesson of my life because I think if he hadn't died when he did I wouldn't be such a risk taker I wouldn't have just got up and left that job I am now the definition of risk at all I am like oh yeah let's jump off this bridge for a

laugh and everyone's like god you're a mum of two what are you thinking and I'm like because we could land on our feet and have a fabulous time yes we could die but sometimes that's slim to none let's just give it a go and I could only imagine I wasn't there but I can only imagine literally as the curtain of life is falling on you I can only imagine literally as the curtain of life is falling on you. I can only imagine the things literally rushing through my dad's brain. Like when I was eight, he said he wanted to be a writer, but he was like, I was a black boy born in the seventies. And that was never going to happen. Now his kid writes multiple books like with ease.

And I'm just like, oh oh dad it could have happened you know I'm not saying it was easy especially in the 60s and 70s but it could have happened yeah and um not giving yourself the space to just like go for it that that's that's really sad and I don't want that for myself to be fair not giving yourself the space to experience it yeah and I and I um hopefully if the universe agrees I am nowhere near done yet I can't even speak about it but there's an opportunity that recently arose that just just shocked me to my core I was like I absolutely cannot do that and then as the days wore on and I start to think about it I'm like you can and you will and you need to plan and then my my seven-year-old daughter was like and I'll support you the whole way mum like you can do

this and I'm like okay so that's the energy that I want my children to be left with you know I want them to have a mum who yes was their mum and and tried to make all these school PTA meetings or whatever but also didn't shrink herself I do think there is still in society this idea that once a woman chooses motherhood that really should be her be all and end all. And that is absolutely not the case in my household. I am very, very open about needing time to myself, about doing things that don't involve my children. Before the pandemic, my other half used to help me go away for seven days, take a week off a year just by myself to any country. Like've got the kids go and be you go and connect with yourself and I think having that support system especially as a busy mum of

two or mum of one or whatever has been so transformative and tremendous and allows the kids to see me outside of mum yeah I kind of want to go into that a little bit because the the motherhood piece that's so attached to being a woman and being feminine and expect how old are you by the way 33 okay so I'm 32 so it's like I think it's most prominent around this age because society is like okay you know tick tock yeah and it's something that I've been giving a lot of thought because I also see a lot of women online a lot of friends that identity if they have like a brand online if they you know have a following and everything that their their whole identity shifts as they become mothers and it's really interesting and I wonder how much of that is

something that just happens organically because something it alights something in them or whether that's because society like you say is telling us that that is how we define ourselves at this stage of life and personally but this may change it doesn't resonate for me hugely and it's not to say that I don't want to be a mother um I'm very open to that but I also think it's important to remain open to the importance of still being a woman a complete woman without that the mothers I always look up to be that online or in real life I hate to say it it's almost as if their children are like carry on luggage it's like I'm going to live my best life in Mexico I've got a job I'm going on holiday oh yeah I gotta take the kid okay I am so scared and this people will

probably judge me for this I'm very scared for women who make their children their world because the reality is in the worst case scenario a bit like what happened with dad for whatever reason your child may pass away before you and then what um more than likely though your child is gonna go to uni or go traveling or fall in love with a person you do not like and they're gonna go and create their own universe and you're just like here like and not only are you now confused you're very resentful I gave you 21 years and you're just gonna all of that their identity disappears yeah and I'm just like I I always said when I decided to have my daughter um it's not a decision I took lightly because I I had been pregnant before and decided not to continue that pregnancy and I still look back on that choice as one of the best choices of my life because I knew becoming a

mother to that child in that situation would have made me deeply resentful and so choosing to have my daughter it I I remember calling like a round table discussion with family and friends and being like so this is how it's gonna go I will let this wonderful person use my body for 10 months but then she's everybody's responsibility because I've got things to do and I'm not done yet and of course I'm the first port of call I'm mum but everyone's gonna have to chip in here because there are just some things I'm not ready to close the door on are you okay with that and I turned to her very Nigerian father who was raised in a very patriarchal society. And he was just like, it's so different to what I know, but I get it. I support you. Then on we go. My eldest, she communicates more than my son. She thinks I'm

great and we have a great time. And I love her so deeply. I just hope I'm showing her a version no I know I'm showing her a version of womanhood that is going to allow her to be free because some of the things she said she's like I don't want kids I just want to move to Tokyo and live by myself she's like I really I want a really big warehouse mum where there's like art in the corner and I'm doing architecture over there and she's obsessed with um Fran is it Fran Lebowitz yeah she's like that's the style I want you can keep your glittery handbags like and I'm just like how like from a like bird's eye view I really do pat myself on the back because I'm like what version of womanhood are you showing her where she's very confident

in saying this is the kind of not even woman person I want to be and life I want yeah and so I'm like actually that's the version of motherhood I'm invested in the most it's not I've got nothing against the the helping your children eat organic and being present in every play date I've got nothing against that version of motherhood either I'm just doing of motherhood either. I'm just doing the motherhood that I think plays to my strengths. That works for you. Yeah.

How would you say, because obviously we're so influenced by our own upbringing and the parents that we have and what we see in the household. So we've got the society kind of peering in that we can see how that whole show runs but then we also have what we were brought up with yeah how was that for you and how is that do you think impacted and influenced your approach to motherhood today people listening will absolutely laugh because it was clear as day what was going to happen I was raised by my maternal grandfather. He was severely mugged just before I was born. And he was left blind in one eye and he was written off as unfit for work.

So when my mum had me and wanted to go back to work, he was like, I'm at home. I'll bring her up. And I lived with him until I was 10 years old. And he took me to school and he came to all my little, I don't know, recorder playing recitals to school and he came to all my little I don't know recorder playing recitals or whatever that shit was all of that he was there he knew when the uniform was getting too small he prepared all of my food and so from a very young age I didn't know that he was doing woman's work quote unquote I was just like granddad's gonna pick me up and all the teachers know him. And, and then alongside him, I would see my dad every weekend who was heavily involved in my life and

communicated really well with him. That feminine energy just wasn't really there. It was just masculine energy doing whatever needed to be done. And so actually actually I don't think it's any surprise I'm in the kind of relationship I'm in now yeah so I'm just like it was meant to be and now to see I call my other half Papa B to see Papa B and my granddad just like sit at the kitchen table and drink whiskey and laugh I do step back and just smile at that image yeah that's i'm like this was this was never gonna end any other way but of course this is how it goes and i'm very intrigued to see the effect that those visuals have on my son specifically my son i'm really interested to see what he thinks masculinity is and how he may go against society trying to define his manhood I think that's going

to be really interesting to watch develop to be fair talking about sort of masculinity and how that's viewed in society are what are your kind of thoughts on because I mean toxic masculinity is like a big buzzword at the moment and there's been so much progression in talking about you know feminism and women's rights but I think that there's a lot to be said for how we can either hold space or allow the masculine to hold space for us rather than it being this kind of exclusive thing yeah do you know what I don't have twitter and anyone listening if you want to exponentially improve your mental health delete your Twitter do you think that's what that is the the greatest monster of all of them oh my gosh I

literally see Twitter as like you going to a party with no windows and everyone's shouting and you and you and you can't leave the room but I'm using Twitter as like a really good example of just how these arguments can become so explosive and one sided. It's like no one's listening to the other person. This wave of feminism is really concerning to me because the feminism we see now is still not showing all the intersections it needs to show. And a lot of the conversations I see around, and a lot of the conversations I see around oh you know um women's rights and we don't have our freedoms or our voices I'm like that's cute and what about um disabled women and black women and women from sections of POC how do you think they feel and that's the kind of argument I see when

it's like oh the masculine versus the feminine and who's not having their voice heard more in that scenario these conversations aren't progressive it's just shouting yeah for you what are the sort of conversations and the key things that need to be happening in order to get this really unearthed you know I'm really just down for listening to the younger people even though I'm 33 and that's by no means old I am really encouraged by how galvanized Gen Z are these 18 19 20 year olds they are just they are just no holds barred they're like this is the new thing you need to learn it this is how I want to be referred to. These are my pronouns. This is what's changing.

This is why it's changing. This is why businesses need to get on board. And I'm just like, okay, here comes a generation who might just save us. Who might just save us. And I'm like one of those middle-aged people who are watching the oldest, like prehistoric dinosaurs. Y'all got us fucked up so bad please let these young people come and rise up and so I do think it would pay to help

encourage those younger people to go into politics because that's just the reality of the situation you and I can have these discussions all day long. We cannot pass bills or push laws. And you know what makes me giggle? Because it's just such a good like ego blunter. Those people, normally old white men, old pale and stale, they don't have social media. They don't care about our hashtags. They don't care about our hashtags they don't care about our conversations they are not clued into what's going on they quite literally exist in a very different vortex and they're not coming out of that so all we can do is find ways to shove the stronger ones of us in and so like sometimes I dream about a world right where I'm rich enough to send like 10 quote-unquote underprivileged black kids from South London to Oxford Uni I'm just like I want to take my money and literally

find a way to shove it up their arse and I think the best way the only way because unfortunately we live in a capitalist society that is not going to change whilst you and I are still breathing so the only thing we can do is trick them take their money and make our people as educated as them to go and fight them like there's yeah and put them in those positions of power too exactly and social media is a great place to start my worry is that our generation just thinks social media is the be all and end all yeah and that making because yeah to be honest I often think when everyone's making a big noise about stuff I'm like what is this what are we actually achieving yeah and also people think that they're doing their bit and that's that's a much larger

problem in terms of what we put into our social media and how we portray ourselves is like it without really embodying the things or actually actioning it and you know this is a key pillar and where that really needs to be changed because especially when people come you know, this is a key pillar where that really needs to be changed, because especially when people come, you know, I have people sometimes say, like, you should post about this. I'm like, am I the most informed person to be posting about that? Oh, babe, don't get me started. Honestly, people can see smoke coming out of my ears. The past six months have been an absolute and there's been a slight blm backlash as one of the voices that have wrong i would say wrongly been touted as like

a black british activist whenever something else happens in another part of the world i'm hit with messages such as you were so vocal about blm now it's your turn to stand up for other people you're two-faced you're a hypocrite you're gonna burn in hell oh these the oh i meet burning hell is one of the softer messages i'm leaving a lot out trust me i've had to put keyword blockers up and down my social media for the things people say to me but there's just this idea that because I have a sizable platform and I'm vocal about the things that I understand because racism affects me and it's my day-to-day existence that I have to hold a mantle and a torch to every other worldly situation and I absolutely refuse to do it number one one, like you just said, I'm not the most educated in this.

And I know in five seconds, I'm going to get this conversation wrong. So I'll be cancelled. I can just see the many ways this is not going to go well. And an old friend's mum once said to me, silence can never be misquoted. People cannot wrap their words around something you did not say. And so there is a part of me that when something does happen on the other side of the world or even nearby that I'm not very well versed in, I just still my back because I'm like, I absolutely will not speak in this moment and I will not be forced to speak in this moment. And also, I find it really interesting that on one hand, we can look at women in a situation like that and seemingly forget their BLM well wishes.

It's just like, oi, you, mule, get back to work. Go and shout about this thing. Do you feel that way when you receive those messages? Absolutely. And it's like, why can this social media space not be a place of softness and solace for women that look like me why why why on earth do you think at candies breath weight on instagram is cnn like you've got a few letters mixed up babe i just i can't keep up do you respond to them really no never another thing that I've learned the hard way is I'm not about to explain the true essence of my character to someone I don't share a bed with yeah but when I see that it does help me remember how I want to be perceived because it is all perception there are many nights I've had moments in my career where I've cried

myself to sleep and the internet will never know just because there is a large part of the social space that thrives on other people's pain well that's actually more of more of a problem in human nature I think really yeah I'm just not willing I'm just not willing to be of service in that moment um and people who meet me or bump into me in the street they're like oh my god you're so gracious and I think to myself fuck that I smash all the shit in my house and I drink all the rum and then like I come out of my house in like a ball gown and I'm like that's right So you're quite aware of what you're presenting to the world. Always, especially as a darker skinned black woman.

I unfortunately don't have a choice. I'm not allowed to lose my temper publicly because that plays into the angry black woman trope. be black woman trope um I'm not necessarily allowed to defend myself because my words more than anyone else's will be taken out of turn I don't just get to publicly be that's not an option for me so every time I leave my house or I go to do a job or I'm even on a podcast my mind is rotating far faster than anyone will imagine and my granddad would appreciate that because as a kid he always used to say put your mind in action before you put your tongue in rotation does it make you feel nervous no not now three four years ago yeah 10 years ago it would have made me sick not now you just you you just get better at it it's

the Beyonce effect Beyonce 10 years ago there are old interviews of Beyonce like 10 15 years ago where someone will ask her a question she doesn't like or or bring up someone she doesn't like and there'd just be this sass and attitude and this snapback the Beyonce of today would never it's just like next question it's just so polished and you do become more refined you know as a as a woman of any race but as a black woman with every hit you take you become more refined and I you know I've taken some I've taken some punches of a lifetime publicly and so now I'm very confident in my ability to be, and I will hold on to this moment for me to become this kind of black female jester where people think you know okay if we poke her here this is the reaction we can get and if there is any jester-like activity happening it's because I want it to it's not because I've been called into

to play that role you know yeah yeah I think my current anxiety is also tied to the fact I know I'm on the cusp of becoming the kind of black woman who gets to do whatever she wants and there are very very few of us living life publicly but I know that by say Christmas this year I'm gonna be in a field of black women who can perhaps be like I don't like that or have a bit of a strop and their career and their personas be largely unaffected by us being ourselves the reality is though in the earlier days of any kind of career that is even halfway public that's just not an option and it's the quickest way to crash and burn that kind of ties into what you mentioned at the beginning about you know why you may have felt that sense

of a lack of role model because those spaces weren't actually available and you were pioneering you know that role yeah and it's it's um it's a lonely journey it's been so lonely I feel really lonely sometimes and my friends bless them they try but our worlds are just so different and also the untethering that has to happen between my from myself and the black women I grew up with or was raised around just because our lives are so different and how I've had to slowly accept this sounds really cheesy but I've had to slowly accept my destiny and there's always a grief in that always because it Because it's like, okay, I'm in this wicked room with all these wonderful clothes of my desires and I don't necessarily worry about bills

and my children are really happy. But if I went into the nitty gritty of what I've had to give up in order to fulfil this job application that I feel was set out way before I even took the role I know so many people my closest friends are like we love you but we absolutely would never take your life you can have that I think for them it's the intrusion yeah it's them watching people intrude on my life and for them the most painful thing is watching people think they know me

disgust me when something happens on social media I see my nearest and dearest in those comments fighting for their life with strangers and I'm like calling them like guys get out the comments like guys you're letting the side down just chill they're like no they don't know you they're not just like that is just that's nothing they're interested in at all well the thing you said about the loneliness I think it there's various layers to that because obviously pioneering something or moving into a space and a role that hasn't been necessarily occupied before and that you don't have people that can hold your hand along the way but then also I think that burden of fighting against those stereotypes and and that not allowing you to so I obviously can't

speak for you but to not actually be able to let an emotion come out or respond in the way that's natural for fear of that setting you back it's quite a lot yeah it's so much and I think I don't allow myself to compute how much it is because it will either stop me in my tracks or make me make me just quit the board completely like just I remember once as a child I was playing Monopoly with my dad and I lost and I took my hand and I wiped the board clean and I sent every piece flying but I remember him going really hard on me for that because he was just like you start again you never ever fumble your own board because something's happened that you don't like you give yourself the space and the grace to fix

it and so as hard as this is I'm like right so you're not going to fumble the board that's like not going to happen but then that's where I depend on therapy so heavily. That's your space for it. Oh, God, I have a wonderful therapist. And I would say to anyone listening, no matter your race or sex, I would even say your sexual orientation. It's very, very important you find the therapist that mirrors you as closely as possible. Because I know when I switch my laptop on that Wednesday at 7 p.m sometimes I don't even have to speak just the sigh she's like yeah I get it I get that like I've not said one word but because she looks very much like me and she understands how I work she's like I get that and so I that one hour a week to me is so precious because I think

even the best actress needs a moment to just like come on done yeah and you know everything you're saying it's like so much time it's like wow she's so impressive but then there's the side of you that needs to be held that needs all the time yeah I think it's so crucial that we allow ourselves that in in whatever way that we can find it yes definitely just before I let you go you speak about manifestation and your kind of connection with the universe a lot how much has that played a part in your life and for how long and how do you what is your kind of spiritual uh path and how does it align with all these things that we're talking about I literally don't know how much time I'm like yeah I don't know how I'm gonna condense this part but I am I don't want to say queen manifester because that's wrong,

but I think I owe most, if not all of my current life to the idea that the energy of the space we inhabit, which is the universe is always trying to work in my favor. And even if I, the human who, who sometimes doesn't see the signs signs even if I get something wrong there's always a reset where they're like right that that wasn't necessarily the right choice

but we're going to help you fix that and once I started to believe or understand that there is an energy there's a source of energy that wants to work for me and with me life changed almost so quickly um how old were you when that happened how old was I I think I really committed to the idea of manifestation 2016 so this is not that long ago at all so you were 27, about that. You're Saturn return. That's actually magic. That's actually magic. I was like, please say 27. Please say 27.

It was literally 2016. And I was like, okay, I hear you. Let's go. And I think what humans understand is money and new shoes and a publicly loving relationship and I have all of those things and that's wonderful what people don't see or might not understand is how much faith I have in myself and the path I'm on like nothing sways me and so even though for half an hour sat here and been like okay I'm so sad I don't have a female you know guide you are the female guide there we go there we go I'm actually like I deeply understand how I have to be the first in order to pay it back to the girls coming behind me who

look like me who will find it easier and that's just my cross to bear and I also understand the universe makes it clear how um there's a cost for that cross like sure yeah the universe has made areas of my life so beautiful and so plentiful that there's an overflow so when I am feeling sad the universe is like don't forget your great husband don't forget your healthy children don't forget your full fridge like I know this part is difficult but I am giving you surplus in other areas so you understand that even though sometimes you don't want to wear this crown it's worth it you know a hundred percent and it's also really important to acknowledge that you can know that you are the role model essentially for yourself and how empowering that is and how powerful that is but you can still carry grief

simultaneously for the loneliness that that means yes one of my best friends is a tarot reader and I don't go to her often because I don't like to blur that line between her being my friend and this expectation of wanting to receive a message. I'm like, I'm not for all of that. But she's just like, if I were to give you insight into where you're going, she was like, you would turn back because it's really scary. She's like, it's going to be fabulous, but you're going to be alone more often than not. And even in a room full of people, you're going to understand that you're perhaps the only person in the room that thinks the way you do, or has the power to maybe move one piece in that room that changes someone's life forever. She was like, that's not energy to toy with,

because that can like lead to like God delusion. So she was like, you just have to take it one step at a time. And I do just hold that dear to my heart. I'm like, right, OK, this is going to be scary and lonely, but it's so going to be worth it. Yeah, it's so going to be worth it. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Candice I absolutely loved talking with her I love her opinions on things and I found her very inspiring to speak to you and it definitely opened my eyes on many things that I wasn't aware of before so if you would like to find out more about Candice you can find her on Instagram at Candice Brathwaite or her website Candice

Brathwaite.com you can CandiceBathwaite.com. You can also purchase her books, I'm Not Your Baby Mother and Sister, Sister, at any good retailer. And you can follow our astrological guide, Nora, on Instagram at Stars and Klein. And you can follow me at Kagi's World and Saturn Returns Podcast at SaturnReturnsCo.

If you enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you could follow the show and leave us a review on Apple or just share it with a friend you think might find it useful. Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production. The producer is Hannah Varrell and the executive producer is Kate Taylor.

Thank you so much for listening and remember, you're not alone. Goodbye.