Saturn Returns with Caggie - 7.1 A Deep Dive into Astrology with Francesca Oddie

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

This week astrological guide Francesca Oddie takes Caggie on a deep dive into astrology and the astrological guides we can find within our birth charts. Francesca is an astrologer, podcast host of @theastrologyoddcast and one of the experts on the show ‘Written in the Stars’. Francesca has a unique ability to remember dates, patterns and finds fulfilment in guiding others in an understanding of astrology and how it connects and influences each of us in our lives. Francesca has always had an affinity towards astrology from childhood and she discusses how her previous relationships guided her towards exploring this further. It is clear from speaking with Francesca that she possesses an innate wisdom and ability to read and connect with people on a deeper level. In this conversation Francesca sheds light on what our sun, moon and rising represent in our birth charts and the importance of understanding these parts of ourselves. They also discuss astrocartology, numerology and the relevance the planet Venus plays in our relationships. With a focus on those going through their Saturn Return in Pisces, Francesca and Caggie discuss the subtle magic we can find during the transitional journey of our Saturn Return. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Today I'm joined by Francesca Oddy, who is an astrologer from London, and in this episode we dive into the importance of the big three, your Saturn return, which is especially important right now because if we were born between March the 7th 1994 and March 24 1996 you will have just gone into your Saturn return as Saturn moves into Pisces so this episode is going to be particularly important for you. We also touched on the importance of nodes now this is something that I have been working on as we've been doing our courses for Saturn returns and how your nodes help in discovering your purpose.

We touch on numerology, which is something that I can't, if I'm honest, really get my head around. But Francesco explains it and she speaks about this very well. We also touch a little bit on astro cartography. we also touch a little bit on astro cartography so this is really for the astrology esoteric lovers out there to start this season on i hope you enjoy francesca welcome to the saturn returns podcast you are my first guest that is in my home where we have created a little chat show for saturns. So welcome. This is cool. Thank you for having me. How are you doing?

I honestly. Be honest. This podcast is all about honesty. I woke up at three, had a really weird night. So I'm a little bit dazed. We'll go easy today. Yeah. But it could be kind of hallucinating.

Be extra honest. Oh, God. Yeah, sometimes it could be kind of hallucinating. Be extra honest. Oh, God. Yeah, sometimes that's good. And for the audience that doesn't know, would you be able to explain a little bit about who you are and what you do? I am an astrologer, primarily. Then I got into numerology, and I did a little bit of tarot, and Reiki, and herbal medicine, and all the stuff but I overwhelm

myself with my Gemini placements and I'm an astrologer so I teach astrology and do consultations and obsess and thinking charts and interrogate people I love that interrogate people how did you find your way into astrology I was always into it like a lot of people who were you know I was as a child and then at school a little bit more and at uni I had a boyfriend who bought me a because I was I went out with two guys at uni and they both the same time succession you know first year uni how it is like i've been a year for it gemini placement makes sense another story but yeah anyway so i saw this pattern in and i started to see patterns a lot was going on about astrology and he bought me a book and then eventually i

lived in italy and the italians generally their rising sign. They just know it more than we know it in the UK. Like guys will say, but what's your other sign? So I started to be able to work out people's rising signs. And I was just obsessed Googling, Googling, Googling. But it never occurred to me to be an astrologer ever in a million years. I didn't know it was a job. I didn't know it was a thing. It was just like Mystic Meg and that was it.

And eventually it was a networking event for property and I met a psychic who was combining interior design she'd got an interior design qualification with being a clairvoyant and she'd like come in and do your colors and do your home and we got chatting at the networking event like Thursday night I had a glass of wine oh quite tired actually and then she blew my mind told me my whole life and and then we went to get our coats and I was like Wednesday birthday were you born at 8 p.m she's like yeah how do you know what time I was born so then I'm like psychic in the psychic and it's because she's a tourist and I have a thing for tourists sunset tourists which you are really. Which I am, yeah. But more the rising Scorpio, she's rising Scorpio.

And I just felt that. And then she said, you're going to be an astrologer. You've done it in all your past lives and you're going to write books, but not till you're about 40. And I was like, what? How are you doing this? And she was talking to my spirit guides, I was like why are they here so what were you doing before that in terms of your career insurance insurance wow fan biz because I often think that people that I meet that are astrologers or into this kind of thing like people get it as

if it's relearning a language that they already knew at some point and personally for me I love it but I cannot quite grasp it to that degree that like you know Nora who does a lot of the astrology for Saturn returns and other people I've met so I'm always really fascinated by people that find it and it is like rediscovering something they already knew which it sounds like it was for you yeah yeah yeah I'd been I'd been searching for it my whole life big time like with my degree with everything I'd really been looking for my career I really wanted to work I've got I've got a freakishly I always say this but then anyway I've got a really good memory for dates and so my friends always used to test me and be like what happened on the 10th of March 2000 and I'd be like and remember and

it's like what can what are you going to do with this memory everyone was all saying what are you going to do with this memory of yours and I was like I don't know like I really I really didn't know and I was sad about it because I wanted to be good you know in your 20s everyone's getting jobs what did you do what did I do before this yeah I was in music before that I was in tv I mean my 20s were filled with chopping and changing careers I started a fashion line when I was like 25 and by the end of my 20s I was kind of like I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing and it was really when I went through my Saturn return that I was like, this is interesting. This is a wild ride. And then just started talking about my own experience.

And then strangely, that became my thing. Makes sense with all the Neptune and all the Pisces. Well, yeah, I want to get into that because before we started recording, I was having to resist, especially with where I'm feeling at the moment. I'm like, don't turn this into your own therapy session but also tell me everything but before we get into that because there's two things that you've said that I want to explore one on a more personal level but you just touched on the importance of the rising sign and how when you were in Italy that was something that people would ask you because there's a history in that isn't there because it was mainly the one that people would look to before

the sun sign and then it didn't it shift when it kind of became more popular or being put into like newspapers and stuff like that I don't know actually honestly yeah I've kind of heard I've heard that people say things but I don't i haven't researched that but it make i don't know why the italians all know the rising sign i really i don't know well for people that don't know that much about astrology would you be able to explain the importance of i guess the big three the big three so that would be your sun, moon and rising, are the parts of your character that are really clearly like, well, obvious. And your sun is your identity. It's your masculine archetype.

If you want to go with that, as in it's, you know, the active, what you want to put out into the world, what you want to create, what you want to make, what you want to do. Whereas your moon sign would be more how you want to live, how you love, how you want to nourish yourself, how you eat, your diet, your body, your physicality. And then the two meet and are expressed through the rising sign. And the rising sign is how we interact with the world. It's that interface, how we move through the world. Yeah. And how do we go into new situations?

How do we speak, interact? Because a lot of people will message me or I think that are interested in astrology and they just perhaps say they don't resonate with their sun sign. And I think that's always a good place. because it makes up a bit more of the tapestry of a person's personality and also how how we're supposed to operate and move through the world that helps us kind of know how to navigate certain things yeah so within that I mean before we started recording you clearly knew that I was a Pisces moon or you could it was obvious but why was it obvious um well initially I just felt quite relaxed about coming here you obviously I've been emailing Sydney and it was 11 a.m start but I could feel it wasn't a hard 11 and I was in my uber and I was five minutes late and I was like she's definitely not gonna

care nothing's a hard start for me because some people say 11 and you feel like I've got to get there and I was like she means 11-ish then when I got here you're like oh I've had tech issues and I was like yeah I could feel this wasn't gonna be stressy you know makes me think this um this girl I met recently she she said to me she was like you're like Jessa from girls I was like why she was like when she turns up at a dinner party at like 11 p.m and and the girl was like i asked you to come for age she's like i thought it was a suggestion and i am a bit like that everything's got a lot of leeway yeah a lot of neptune like the girl did a podcast yesterday with a girl born march 89 and and I kept saying Neptune. She's like, what are you on about? But it makes sense.

You do dance and film and fashion and broadcasting and spirituality. But you move in that Pisces, Neptunian realm. Free flow. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes to my detriment, I would say. And maybe, I don't know, maybe that's why my Saturn return was so... Savage, was it?

It was pretty savage. And I kind of want to get into that next because obviously the podcast is centered around Saturn return and based really off my own experience. But then now we're moving into time where people that are about to go through their Saturn return that are in Pisces right and so I would love to kind of explore the differences between let's say me who went through it a fair few years ago now which is kind of crazy in the sign of Capricorn and then like how does that manifest differently for people yeah and also so my uber driver here had saturn in sag conjunct uranus right and uranus is a planet that rules aquarius and i i was just getting aquarius vibes from him and i was just listening can you tell yeah when you meet people what sign they are saturn yeah i can now but only in the past two three years probably so when you asked me about the big three

initially i'd be like i can see your sun sign i. I can see your rising sign and I can see your moon. And then I stopped being able to see Mars and Venus. Now I can see Saturn. And I really feel that Saturn is who we are deep down. It's our, Saturn is bones. It's the structure of our life. You know, these things, you know, but I'll say it anyway. And when we mature, we do become that.

We become that Saturn. And this guy, he had so many opinions. I didn't speak. He just lectured me on everything. And I loved it. He was so interesting. But he was a very free thinker. He loved being an Uber driver because he hated being employed.

He's like, I take lunch when I want. I go on holiday when I want. I was like, hey, I hear you, I hear you. And he had all these opinions on politics and health and medicine. He just had opinions. And he was so into freedom. And I could hear that. And with you guys, particularly the 1989 ones.

So you've got Saturn in Capricorn, but you've also got Neptune in Capricorn, really, really close to Saturn. And the Berlin Wall came down around when you were born. And if Saturn is walls, walls were dissolved the year you were born. And I've got a lot of good friends born your age and one of my good friends i was always like why are you so pisces you know she she wasn't she's a she's a gemini and she's got saturn and capricorn and the moon in taurus i'm like why are you like this why are you so kind of relaxed in in your own land kind of wearing odd socks like why are you why are you a pisces and into a lot of them are you guys are into dance you're all very free-flowing you know dreamy types and i think it's because the neptune's there so i think that's really part of your guys flavor that you are really spiritual

beings you live in an abstract world where you feel things and you're sensitive and you're you live and particularly with your north node and your moon in Pisces because I just looked you're full-on full-on fish I have north node and oh yeah I do no I do you're right you're right I do which brings me to another point but before I kind of divert you have to hold me yeah I have North Node and South. Oh yeah, I do. No, I do. You're right. You're right. I do. Which brings me to another point. But before I kind of divert onto that. Yeah, you have to hold me in. Yeah, I have to hold myself in too. So 1989, because of that Neptune,

because I also resonate probably the most with my Pisces moon and I always gravitate towards Pisces as well. I just, that's kind of of but that's my internal world as well but you're saying that also because of the neptune the neptune and that's just recently last year as well working with people who were your age and being like why are they also pisces and and it's interesting that the uber driver here also had a really tight conjunction between Saturn and Uranus. And all I got from him was Aquarius, Aquarius, Aquarius, because Uranus rules Aquarius. And it's a nice synchronicity that then you've got Saturn and Neptune.

And this is really something I'm thinking about at the minute. And that's why everybody's Saturn return is unique. But the 1988 have a very strong freedom science liberation rebellion energy and the 1989 are very deeply sensitive mystical spiritual um yeah feel feel a lot in their feels and what about those that are about to go into their Saturn return with Saturn in Pisces? They were the people who started coming for readings when they're about 24. I remember being like, you lot are advanced. They all had their tarot cards.

They all knew a lot. Because my generation, Saturn and Sag, your generation, we were all like, what's a Saturn return? You know, like we get to 30 and we discover this thing and we're like, oh. Whereasurn and pisces lot i've known yeah they're ready they're really ready yeah some of them are i imagine it'll be 50 50 like with all saturn returns and the ones with some of them will just be diving into this spiritual career but i think we are again my taxi driver synchronicity he was really like i'm just he was brushing his teeth with an olive branch i told you didn't i yeah i was like what are you doing and he's like yeah yeah you get olives and we scratch our teeth i was like i don't use any chemicals that's what we all do it's great in my country 95 of people don't get cancer don't get heart disease don't get diabetes

we're all healthy he's like it's all money and everything's corrupted here it's like i want the world to get back to natural ways i really want the world to understand that it's not about money and i was literally doing this on a podcast yesterday ranting saying exactly the same thing and i think that this saturn in pisces shift for the collective will be moving to natural medicine and part of what's happening with the collapse of health services at the minute and the pressure on the health service is that we we need alternative medicine as well because of course we need the nhs for emergency medicine and operations and you know all the things that we need hospitals for but but a lot of time is taken up with things that can be treated alternatively and i think the saturn and pisces lot have that skill set and will be practicing herbalists homeopaths psychotherapists

craniosacral therapists um i think we'll be understanding how when we are spiritually sick we become physically sick part of my saturn return was a bad shoulder i was having injections in my steroid injections in my shoulder because i was in pain and i read this amazing book by dr john sarno called healing back pain the mind body connection and thousands of people i've given it to four people all who have said this book's incredible changed my life symptoms gone and the idea is that all our emotional pain goes to a point in the body because we are more able to deal with physical pain than emotional pain yeah i mean i didn't expect this conversation to go in this direction but now that it is no but now that it is let's let's free flow with it because it's

um at the same time I understand what you're saying but the I was looking at something yesterday and it was about how many people are on Adderall which is I think um in the last four years or like five years it's kind of gone from you know 2019 sort of nine million or I could be getting this quite wrong but now in 2023 it's at 40 million and what's it for it's for concentration and focus so I was taking for ADHD and I mean that's just one example of many in terms of the way that in the western culture we still apply this pill for every ill mentality and you go to the doctor and you're like oh i'm struggling with this and they rarely actually look holistically

at the whole body the emotional state and stuff like that so i do feel like we are due a shift and we can also see in recent years how much you know i think that kind of mentality has gone against us really in in yeah but we've all been there i think and like i said this on the pod yesterday it's awkward to talk about because we're saying with antidepressants 17 of the uk are on antidepressants and they're not depressed because they've got an antidepressant deficiency there is something else and of course i'm not going to tell anyone what to do or i've been depressed i know what it's i've been there and you will do anything to get out of that but we we've been told that the solution is pills and we've forgotten that changing lifestyle or changing something or sitting with the pain for a while because your Saturn return is a bit depressing.

Depression is a characteristic of the Saturn return. It can be. Some people, it's great. You get married and have a dog. Some people, it's like you're really off piste. You're quite depressed now. You know, start your life out. You know, you need to realign and get back on track. Yeah. it's like you're really off piste you're quite depressed now you know start your life out you

you know you need to realign and get back on track yeah like being in detention by a teacher who's like look i see your potential but going out every friday and getting pissed isn't that gonna solve it and that's you know that was my experience of it but i just i think we're going to get there and i think that could be what saturn in pisces brings is more these young people who are very sensitive with saturn in pisces if saturn is who you are deep down they are artistic they they can see auras maybe they can't yet but they have this potential and a lot of saturn in pisces people i know uh they saw visions and things when they were young. Maybe you did as well.

People with a lot of Pisces in their chart often tell me, you know, when I was seven, I used to see fairies or I used to see spirits, but then I squashed it because it scared me and then it comes back at their Saturn return. Yeah, I definitely can relate to that. I squashed a lot of that intuitive knowing, that slightly psychic energy, because also it was weird. Yeah, and it would freak people out. But it was never something, perhaps because I never really harnessed it, but it was always just really random, insignificant things.

And then also I would have a lot of stuff that I feel like I'm definitely tapping back into but with dreams so for me asking my dreams you know the answer to things and it gives me very very clear messages sometimes not the messages I want but um yeah I'm learning to kind of reclaim that yeah but we we mentioned a second ago you were discussing you went on to sort of north nodes and south nodes and i find this quite an interesting topic in terms of the people listening that are struggling with purpose and kind of direction and having those kind of questions that often come during your saturn return about like who am I what am I supposed to be doing how can they use that or how do you apply that for people kind of getting a deeper sense of clarity over the direction that they're supposed to be going in and what aspects they need to kind

of enhance or perhaps be wary of yes the south node um and some people argue that you need to integrate your south node and you do you need to be aware of it anyway so the nodes are points in space where the the path of the moon around earth crosses with the path of earth around the sun the ecliptic so when everything's lined up and you get the eclipses, they're the nodal points. Don't really need to know what they are, but that's what they are, points in space. The north node is your destiny. It's where you're going to. And you want to cultivate the traits of that. And you want to kind of move away from the traits of your south node or be aware of the traps that you fall into when you're triggered, hungry, hormonal, tired, the traps that you fall into when you're triggered hungry hormonal tired emotionally distressed and jan spiller is my favorite book on the nodes it's it's thick and you there's a lot on each of the

topics i read for houses as well if you know your house i think the house of the north and south node are really relevant but there's this information there that is crucial a lot of us i've read that astrologers say you could just do a reading of the nodes you can look at the north node and get some absolute clarity about what you're supposed to be doing what your skills your potential is and also really you know this south node is a point where you can fall into and go into victim mode and really sit there and wallow in that south node and you don't want to so it's quite nice to know when you're getting trapped into it and also when you look at that from a relationship astrology perspective as well

that certain people if if their sun sign or they've got planets that sit on your south node they're gonna like pull you back into that interesting because my south node virgo is yeah and then my north node is pisces so essentially that means that pisces is the direction in which i'm heading you need to let go okay yeah with it with north node pisces i don't know which house it's in i didn't look second or third probably third maybe i'll look a minute um but with pisces you want to be the free flowing pisces it's really important for you to stop micromanaging with the south node in virgo your bad habit would be like i can control everything with my anxiety and my herbs i know because i spoke to nora about it i was like but i'm so not a virgo she was like perfectionist yeah controlling everything i was

like okay brazilian herbs in a nice row that to be fair is sydney who is a virgo who's put them into it she's keeping you in the south no thanks is it sydney and early virgo or syd august or september september okay so not exact um because yeah you're like i think one degree but you want to integrate that you do want to integrate your virgoness for sure so how do people integrate their the good bits you you the virgo being organized organized healthy eating properly moderation all of that but you'd be wary of with a virgo south node perhaps a past life they would argue where you were responsible where you're a medicine woman and you're responsible for people and if you gave them too much of the wrong herb everything would go wrong so this is really extreme anxiety about getting things right that's you know and not playing not playing god not being in control of everything and

not micromanaging the universe virgo south node not virgo in general but the south node energy of virgo where the bad habits of that kind of hyper anxiety about getting everything just right and you want to move to that north node in Pisces which is quite easy for you because your moon's there as well and be like okay I trust the universe I'm just a speck in the cosmos and I'm gonna let go and let things happen and let things flow and I'm gonna share and because you've got a moon north node together not that tight but still they're both there, really about doing feminine things, working with the moon, sharing information.

The other thing that I wanted to discuss with you that we've actually not had anyone come on the podcast and talk about. There are two things. There are two things. One, numerology. Okay. Completely, pretty much foreign to me.

So, because you said, I don't, yeah. What does, you just to me so because you said i didn't yeah what does he just looked at me and he said six i was like uh classic what do you mean six um if i add your date of birth up it would and i reduced it all down would get to six how does that happen uh one plus five yeah first of may yeah and then 1989 i know is a nine because the 80s are really easy so 1989 one plus nine plus eight plus nine if you add it up adds up to 27 two plus seven is nine i'm not great at maths but i know i'm speaking to a neptunian they're like okay so what does that what does that actually mean um what does it mean so each number we're in numerology you always just reduce down so you add that the date of birth and and and keep adding like you know i got 27 and

two plus seven is nine you always just keep adding until you get a digit unless it's 11 or 22 because they're master numbers okay you know one one two two numerology loves a repeating number when i got in the uber to come here the eta was-1. I know. I did see, I think you messaged it around that time. Yeah. I was like, oh, that's nice. Again, like, so free. Oh, isn't that lovely? It's not going to be late, but cool.

So, yes. So a 1 is a bit like an Aries. If you think about 1, it's a singular energy. It looks singular. It's like bolt upright, gets going. A two is quite service orientated, humble, bows down. Three is the number of joy. Four is about structure. If you look around you, everything, all the fours, the walls, the doors, everything. Fours are very structured and organized you know five is about change it's half straight and half curvy and it goes in all different directions and it's quite

random i met a five on saturday she was doing a tasting in the health food store she's like oh yeah well i live in scum thought but then we've got a farm down here farm down here and i work in sales i was like and then she's like what do you do i was like you sound like a five which how do you know i was like because you've just got this weird life where you're all over the place fives tend to operate like that six is the honeycomb you know hexagonal so as a six it's all community and friends and being nice six looks like a pregnant lady so six is all responsible and looking after everyone and putting more effort into your friendships than everyone else and just very caretaking and community focused and a bit artistic as well seven is spiritual number seven chakras seven colors in the rainbow

seven days in the week like god's number so sevens are very they tend to be teachers and researchers and often their own gardeners in nature they need to be nature thinking and they are hashtag spiritual a bit of a pisces ish vibe then the eight is money a lot of people know that because the chinese love the number eight so a is money and power like banking and private members clubs and designer clothes and then the nine is humanitarian again like the six but upside down caring for people quite emotional quite wise end of the cycle and the 11 is a higher vibration of two and the 22 is a higher vibration of four so what does that mean so the 11 is like the two the two is very sensitive and caring the the 11 is very sensitive if you know anyone

born on the 11th my text driver's born on the 11th he's he's very um well thought out extremely extremely sensitive to their environment they tend to have a natural psychic ability again very Pisces so seven and the 11 have that Neptunian feel so people can work that out by adding together basically the day they were born and the month they were born. And year. And the year. Okay. D-O-B. Yeah.

Day of birth. And then there's loads to numerology like with astrology. So your life path number, your main number is what that is, your total. But then there's the day of the month you were born on so you're born on the first so you have some one energy independent do things you're on your own born on the first yes you know it's like fresh fresh energy and then you do you can do your name so every letter has a corresponding number abc123 okay we won't go no we won't go there i honestly i do find numerology as a subject quite, perhaps that's just my...

People are scared of numbers. I'm a little bit scared of numbers. A lot of people are. I'm not scared, I just... They're just like, ugh, numbers. Yeah, exactly. And then the other thing that I'm, you know, really quite interested in, but know very little about is astrocartography.

So for those that don't know, can you explain what astrocartography so for those that don't know can you explain what astrocartography is yes so astrocartography is putting your birth chart over the globe or another way of thinking about it is to it's quite a literal manifestation of your birth chart manifestation of your birth chart so when you were born the sun was somewhere so you were born uh just before sunset i guess i was born my dad says i was born at 6 20 p.m and in so that's yeah just before sunset in may probably and that's like i know eight and but if you wanted to perhaps go to your sun sign so what we do in astro cartography is put lines over the over the globe over the map and all the all the different points in your birth chart are transposed onto the map and what they are depicting is where the sun was at the zenith at the top of the sky where it is at the

bottom of the sky where the sun was rising and where the sun was setting so at any given moment somewhere the sun is rising like right now the sun is rising somewhere and and the sun rising is about you coming out into the world you meeting the world it's literally on your rising sign if you're born and we already spoke about what the rising sign is so if you have the sun rising then it adds to a sunny persona to you it gives you almost a leo feel and you are well received and you're generous and you're outgoing so you can go to the part of the world now and you can go to where the sun was rising when you were born and the astro cartography map shows you that and then when you go there you experience that energy because just for to add because this can yeah it's confusing like quite an overwhelming

concept if people aren't familiar with it but it's basically you know when people travel and they have a certain feeling or energy when they go to a place and it might be that they just feel like they've been there a thousand times before or they go and they feel well this is not not right for me but yet they could be traveling with someone that's having a great polar opposite experience and so astro cartography is so fascinating because it allows you to actually see like what place and I I'm gonna butcher it because I can't quite remember exactly what it was but I had um someone come on to talk about human design and we ended up discussing about places and astrocartography

came up and it was the first time I'd really heard about it and I was saying how much of a connection I had with Australia and Sydney and she was like I bet you have a line that goes through it and she literally it goes like bang through Sydney I think it's my MC but how can because obviously when they look at it online and even for myself it feels like whoa this is a lot it's a bit like looking at a chart when you don't know it's like what does this all mean how could people actually you know what are they going to be looking out for specifically that they can take away if they are having that kind of desire to travel yeah i think obviously there's always that caution thing like don't make massive decisions like when i was in my 20s before i was a proper astrologer and I'm a Sag and I like two boys one was a Sag and one was a Virgo and I was like well I need to be with a Sag because

that's more compatible than the Virgo but that was an ignorant thing to do because I have the moon in Taurus so the Virgo goes very well so yeah there's always like don't make mad decisions but I remember like first hearing about astro cartography a few months into properly becoming an astrologer. And you just want to get the map and look at it and be like, where are my lines? Because we all have a place like you have with Sydney and I had with Rome. Like, why? What is I want to see my lines? Because there's got to be a line.

Yeah. So you can go on astro.com and go on astro click travel. And it's really good because you just click on, you know, use the mouse and click. And it gives you a little bit of feedback about this place brings you luck this place is good for work but not good for making friends this place is will feel like home but you won't be that sociable so you can get an idea that's the thing like do you want to go and become better at work and be more visible maybe your business will be more visible if you were yeah in sydney or something but maybe you want to go and live somewhere and feel really at home you want to go to the moon

or maybe you want to go and write a lot of writers you know they want to go and tune into their mercury but you're always working with your own birth chart kieran devlin who i studied with he wrote a great blog on his on this and he went to his venus line but he has a venus saturn aspect in his birth chart so he went and sat at a table and everyone else was in couples and he was on his own because his venus was still being saturned what does that how does that well if saturn is about hard work and loss and and lack and you know being feeling lonely or maybe having not feeling good enough because saturn's there being like you could be more attractive you could have you could be earning more money you know you could be there saturn's saturn's undermining his natural venusian

attractiveness or at least self-esteem if venus also informs your self-esteem so when you go to that venus line if your personal venus is challenged in your birth chart then you're going to meet that challenge literally in the world very wow okay and on that subject because we actually haven't really explored it that much oh yeah we haven't of love and how you know what people should look out for and kind of how, you know, Venus manifests in the chart. Venus is a favourite topic of mine, particularly at the minute, with all the relationship stuff. I think because, like I already told you at the very beginning,

it was my boyfriends and it was my relationships that really made me want to, like a lot of people, get into astrology and understand it. And Venus tells us so much about self-esteem and what we're attracted to and how we value ourselves and when it comes to compatibility it is a major consideration how come um because she's what you love and so you will be dating your venus and meeting your venus and attracting your venus a lot it's the whole chart it is your seventh house and your sun and your moon but there is something to her and also what's really interesting i think it's been a bit of a discourse for women on

instagram and maybe men but the over the past couple of years there's been a lot of self-esteem loads of money chat hasn't All these money courses and learning. And that's all Venus. Really? Yeah. Why is that Venus? Because Venus is how we value ourselves. Okay.

And she's our currency. She's our talent. She is part of it. Nothing in the birth chart is like chopped up and held in isolation. But still, there is something to Venus that you want to really nurture your particularly Venus sign and aspects in house. Because if you feel good about yourself, then you charge what you're worth and you don't waste time in relationships that are clearly going nowhere. That's all about Venus. So it's more about the self than nowhere that's all about your venus so it's more about the self than it is love in a way well it's the mirror if the venus symbol is the is the

mirror you know and it's the hand mirror and it's ruler of libra and rule of taurus and there's a lot of i'm attracted to you because you remind me of me that and also yeah if you can't be in a healthy relationship with someone else unless you be in a healthy relationship with someone else unless you've got a healthy relationship with yourself and that translate is very evident in how you look after yourself and and all the rest of it it's a really broad and interesting discourse as is the other side of venus which is envy and jealousy because venus was very jealous mother-in-law in myth if you look at the myth of venus aphrodite she was like top babe liked being top dog did not like a threat to her status at the top and that's also a really interesting part of female dynamics relationship dynamics

what Liz Green wrote a lot on or at least what I've read, is that very real envy within families where the young daughter is attractive and the mother's feeling displaced. And it's always been there. And it's natural. And it's not... That must be something people would feel a lot of shame around. Exactly.

And it's not mutually exclusive with love. But there is envy within families. Envy between siblings, but also mother. And it's all Freudian, Oedipal, Electra. You can go right in there if you want. And it's natural. And I think we are competitive. Again, reading about nature, we are competitive.

But we're supposed to be civilized. And denying that competition might be unhealthy as well because there's been a lot of undermining of that very natural feeling i think with anything like when you feel angry what do you deny the anger or do you go okay no i understand why i feel like this okay i'm gonna move that along and with envy it's not necessarily and if you feel envious of someone an idea that okay that means that you want to be like them it can just be it can just be like that looks really nice I would like to have that it doesn't mean that it's for you i think because i think it's quite corrosive as well this idea that oh if you're triggered by that that means that you want to go and have it it's like no we're all unique what what we want

is to shine in our own way and to empower people to do that and not because it's a lot of marketing a lot of the way we are held or the way society is shaped isn't it like you gotta at the minute like do your lips and do your eyebrows and and we are sold to sold to sold to that this is an ideal and you know like and it's kind of a one thing yeah that we're kind of told that that is the ideal of beauty, but it creates this kind of clone-like thing. Yes, really. When you think about it quite, trends are always there because the planets are always doing trends for us.

Like Saturn will move into Pisces and we'll have a new trend. But it's like, can you own your unique bit? Can you own your own Venus and not get sucked into the trends i think how do people do that well it's being true to yourself and and know know what your venus wants if your venus is in virgo mine's in taurus so in taurus she wants all the nice stuff the nice luxury because like 20 million things in the bathroom

it's like a pharmacy that was a good tourist bathroom it that to be fair my bathroom is a serious tourist bathroom like when i saw it i was like i'm home this is it big window trees and and now you've got, yeah, 50,000 products, which is classic Venus in Taurus. It's the, you know, the eye mask, the chocolates, the champagne. It's luxe. Venus rules Taurus. So she's like face mask manicured to the max.

Like that's what she wants. Venus in Virgo values health and order and being organized and different things. And she's simpler perhaps they're both a natural but a venus and gemini wants variety and communication and she wants to be able to show how intelligent she is and how multifaceted she is and she can travel and pick up the language really quick and you know chat to everyone and that makes her feel good so it's about what what does your venus want and give her what she wants my venus in capricorn i love working interesting okay and how that's i think that's really useful for people as a takeaway and how can they kind of

use it or be aware of it in matters of the heart when they are going into relationship what are the kind of things to you know as an individual to look out for or to be aware that they might need more of or less of yeah like um so venus and capricorn i it's shy because capricorn is shy emotionally reticent and and being aware of that for instance for me was really helpful because i feel that if i've said how i feel once that was a big deal and it's done but actually you know it's important to continue to communicate and I have to push that natural tendency to be like to back away because that's my nut being aware of your natural tendencies being aware of what you want but also where you can be a bit like over the top and yeah and it's what you what you need a venus in virgo like my sis is

organizing clean and and she likes a plan and she needs to know that she's you know it's not pisces she needs to know that she's leaving at this time and coming back and when she was little if if she wasn't fed by six like it passed the routine she just wouldn't eat because the Venus in Virgo needed the routine because Virgo needs routines and it's fundamental to who we are. And in partnership,

you're going to be looking to have that need met. But that's also your moon and all the stuff. But if Venus does inform what we're attracted to. Yeah, that's interesting. And what we attract.

It's the two way. The two way street. Yeah, that's interesting. And what we attract. It's the two-way. The two-way street. Well, thank you so much for joining me on the Saturn Returns podcast. This has given me a lot of food for thought, and I'm sure it has for our listeners too. And is there any kind of one final thing of advice, I guess particularly perhaps I would say for those that are about to go through their Saturn return?

Look for the synchronicities. I think the universe is actually quite kind at the Saturn return. For me, you know, there was a lot going wrong, so to speak. But strangers that I met on the train or the plane or a guy in the office who just gave me a book. I think you need this book. The universe is really waking up. You're really waking up into a whole new phase particularly those that are in pisces and it's happening for us all collectively to start look for the subtle magic and the conversations because it's supportive

even when you're going through transition and you feel empty and lost that you are on a journey and embrace embrace it i call them spirit guides yeah i remember actually when i was going through my saturn return having yeah it was once i was had like a huge fight with my boyfriend at the time which was a relationship that i just so was not supposed to be in and i was i was he let me out the car put me out the car and i was on like a bench crying and this pregnant woman and everyone was just walking past me and this pregnant woman came over and just sat with me and just basically told me to leave my boyfriend and it was just one of those things that just i mean it was just a very kind act from a stranger i didn't listen to her immediately but she was right and i always think that we can get very heady you know we can get

very stuck in in the pain of like what am i supposed to be doing like push push push figure out figure out without actually noticing the synchronicities or the people you know that just appear in our life so i think that's a beautiful thing to leave people with so thank you yeah and sitting with the pain is also part because we're kind of trained to run from the pain a bit aren't we but it's actually like you're experiencing life and it's so it yeah it's beautiful I hope you enjoyed this episode and this conversation between me and Francesca. I found it super useful and really interesting. You know, like I said in the conversation, whenever I meet astrologers,

it's always this case of them remembering something rather than learning it. It's like it's a language that's coming back to them. And that very much comes across with Francesca. What my kind of thoughts and feelings were after this episode was like to lean into your intuitive knowing your sort of psychic abilities and you know all this stuff around Neptune that I found so if you're my age if you're 33 about to be 34 you probably have a lot of Neptune as well. And that can be in that sort of watery dreamlike space that can be a really powerful and beautiful thing. But it also probably meant that your Saturn return was

like a double whammy, like mine was explains a lot. Anyway, if you guys want to hear more from Francesca, you can find her at Francesca Oddydiastrology on instagram and thank you so much for listening as always and remember you are not alone goodbye