Saturn Returns with Caggie - 7.4 Colour in Spirit: Tarot, Aura and Mysticism with Fiongal Greenlaw

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

Today’s conversation is an incredibly insightful and uplifting one as Caggie delves into the realm of spirituality and mysticism with Fiongal Greenlaw. Fiongal, an expert on the language of the soul, is a sought-after psychic, tarot reader and the founder of ‘The Wellness Foundry’. Fiongal began his career in fashion and, after experiencing a health crisis which left him grappling with a sense of misalignment in his life that he was unable to contextualise, came to the realisation the discomfort he was feeling was the manifestation of a spiritual awakening. It became clear that the universe was nudging him to embrace this transformative journey of grounding himself and coming home to his spiritual gifts. This Episode covers auras, discovering your life's purpose and tapping into your unique gifts, how to prevent empath burnout and cord cutting and protection.  No matter your understanding of the practice of spirituality, Fiongal provides gems of wisdom we can all benefit from through discussing the profound insights he has gained through his career, the significance of setting boundaries and the practice of self-love. This conversation is a powerful one, with magic moments of laughter and light-heartedness and is an overall encouragement to become more aware of your energy, emotions and intuition. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Today I am joined by someone who I was introduced to not so long ago. It was an interesting sort of journey of us connecting because I'd heard about Fingal at an event. Someone told me about this amazing tarot reader and I made a sort of mental note. I'd heard about Fingal at an event someone told me about this amazing tarot reader and I made a sort of mental note I was like hmm I feel like I really want to connect with him but I didn't want to kind of be pushy about it so I just left it and then about eight months later someone from his team actually that I was speaking to anyway reached out and was like

hey you should connect with Fingal and then we had this anyway reached out and was like hey you should connect with Finkel and then we had this amazing session together and for those of you that aren't familiar with tarot it's sort of a way it's like a session that you have where I mean Finkel's abilities are quite extraordinary he's he's very much communicating with spirit and when I first had the session with him I was like whoa this is this is nuts but in a space where I feel there are a lot of charlatans I really respect him and his practice and think he's fantastic hence why I've got him on the show so he is the founder of something called the wellness foundry and they offer readings and courses and

retreats and building out this whole sort of esoteric world so there's a lot of synergy between what he's creating and Saturn Returns and so I felt it was the right time to bring him on. Also to kind of bring you guys into my more personal life I guess in a way because he's someone that I've had private sessions with I'm always getting asked can you give me a healer's number like you said in this thing you had this person and so here we go here's Finkel and in this conversation we really discuss how he got into this work his sort of rock bottom and spiritual awakening he was previously working in fashion before he had this wake up and that was in a sort of crisis point for him to get there and then how he tapped into these gifts that he has which are very very clear to me and so I hope you enjoy this

conversation if tarot is something you don't know very much about it's very interesting as well as just his personal journey fingal hi hi hi how are you doing yeah i'm really well i'm really well i'm just pleased january's out of the way really i know she was grueling wasn't she was she was a cruel and long she was she was cruel i feel like a year was in January absolutely so absolutely glad to see the back of her completely um for the audience that doesn't know just to kind of give them a bit of context of how we met we did a reading together which was amazing and also I think I told you this but I'd already heard about you, I think probably about a year ago, I met someone and she started telling me about this man, he had the spiritual awakening, and then went into tarot.

And I was like, wow, I should really do a reading with him someday. And then you sort of appeared in my life. Oh, no way. Oh, I didn't know that. About a year later. Oh, fabulous. That's amazing. So for the audience that doesn't know, would you be able to explain a little bit about what you do and who you are

yes um so my name's Fingle and I always have to say that a few times over just so you think is he making that up did he sneeze was that actually his name no I mean it's lord of the rings to a tea isn't it it's wonderful um it's funny of the Rings to a T, isn't it? It's wonderful. It's funny because I always say if my parents wanted me to be an accountant, they should have called me Steve. But with a name like Fingal, I could only ever really end up as a tarot reader. It's kind of... Where does the name come from? It's Irish. Yeah, it's Irish. But my parents took quite a few liberties with both the spelling and the pronunciation they just kind of they were very artistic with it um but yeah so I I work so my entry into this kind of world which is to do with spirituality and mysticism uh very much about the language of the soul um the entry point to that

was the tarot but it has over the last kind of four years expanded into different areas so um one of my great passions is about blending creativity and spirituality as well so i work as a psychic artist and i'll explain a little bit more about that later um but predominantly um kind of 80 percent of my work at the moment is as a tarot reader and psychic so i offer one-to-one sessions with people. And a large part of the impetus of what I do is about kind of, there are many, many misconceptions around the tarot. It's still slightly a hang-up of draped in purple velvet, end of the pier kind of stuff. But it really is about a language of the soul.

So that's what I'm really interested in is who we are why we're here and how to really align to our soul's purpose purposes so again tarot is kind of one of the only ways is one of the many ways that I do that but I work as a psychic as well and work as a medium so um communications work with spirit guides and how did you get into it like what was the background and what was your sort of journey into coming into this space so i traditionally worked in fashion so i was working in fashion for about eight years and like many many people that i've met on this journey a lot of them were in fashion they had they hit health crisis so normally spiritual awakening is catalyzed by crisis and I think

sorry a rock bottom a rock bottom or I really think crisis is really necessary so many people shy away from it and really resist crisis but I think from crisis comes realization and an awakening. So mine was a health crisis. So I, for a period of about a year, maybe slightly shy, I was just fainting all the time. So I would be walking down the street, planking it. I would be at work and I'd faint. And one time, I probably shouldn't joke about this, but if you want to get seen in A&E really quickly, just faint in reception, because they'll whisk you through, so that happened as well, I went, and I said, oh, I'm not, not feeling

very well, and fainted, so I spent five days in hospital, because it'd just been happening again, and again, and again again and again. And they just couldn't, they said, no, you're fine. There's nothing, there's nothing going on. You just need to rest and relax. And then it happened again whilst I was on a Buddhist retreat. So I'm a Buddhist. I studied Buddhism for eight years, practiced Buddhism for eight years and it happened again when we were on retreat and I went from retreat to A&E from a silent retreat into A&E and that polarization was the moment I just thought I cannot do this anymore I just cannot do this anymore so thankfully I went back from A&E into the retreat and one of the leaders said, look, have you thought about acupuncture?

So I gave that a go. And it was the first time that I'd been introduced to the language of energy. So all the stuff was very foreign to you at that stage, but you did have your spiritual practice and you were already in that space. Yes. in that space yes and i suppose with buddhism one of my kind of viewpoints is the buddha taught us how to think and jesus taught us how to feel those kind of they're the great archetypes or the great teachers of those two kind of philosophies so in buddhism when we're practicing it's very mind heavy there's much mindfulness in the way you think and there wasn't and there is still embodiment but there

was this kind of slightly missing piece just for me for me within it was kind of linking with the soul so i did have a spiritual practice of sorts but it was interesting because all around that time i was going to reiki practitioners buddhist buddhist practitioners all of these people saying this is describing my experiences and saying what's going on and they go you should be fine I don't know we don't know what that is so it was a deeply deeply scary and isolating time because no one could kind of contextualize or even diagnose what was going on for me was it a physical thing as well as a an emotional thing that you were going through in terms of the fainting and was it yeah so they they looked at my i went through every scan they

looked at my heart they looked at my brain they looked at my blood pressure they looked at everything and everything was good as and did you feel emotionally in a sort of turbulence oh i see i see um yeah so only much later looking back i just realized i was so ungrounded there was just nothing about me that was grounded i even remember talking to my mum a little while afterwards and say explaining these experiences and she says yeah she's always just had one one one toe on the ground. And I thought, yeah, that's the perfect description of how I was. Because particularly in fashion, I'm not blaming fashion at all, but it exacerbated this tendency that I have,

that I'm still working through, to be incredibly hard on myself and really push, push, push, push, push. If it's not struggle, then it's not worth doing is kind of a lot of the mentality that I'm still unpicking. So it was it was it was partly to do with that but it was also partly a kind of existential escapism like I just I was finding things so either confusing or frustrating or um unnerving that I think my soul was just like i want out here i just i just want to and so

kind of on time and time it was leaving and i was just planking it and and also my body was saying well if you're not going to ground we're literally going to get you on the ground i'm going to place you on the ground so you get it so i had to go through that process for about a year. And then it was only after, through a series of fortunate events, that I discovered my mentor, a guy called Gary Wright. And when I met him, he works through the College of Psychic Studies, which is a fabulous place. When I met him, he just started talking in a language that I thought, oh, it was a language that I inherently knew but didn't know I could speak. So it was like being fluent in Russian, but having never heard. And then you hear the person coming to you start speaking in Russian and you're able to reply in the same language. Really odd sensation, but the most exhilarating thing.

but the most exhilarating thing. And it was really interesting, actually, because the College of Psycho-Studies is literally around the corner from the RCA, where I studied on my MA. So there was this real kind of coming full circle, coming to the same part of London, but for an entirely different reason. It was deeply fascinating.

But from there, it just was able to string all the pearls on a single thread for me so that I could see right this is what's been going on and you know it's it still took two years of really having to ground and ground and ground and ground and ground and then finally I was sitting in meditation I love the fact I could talk about this crazy stuff with you but I was sitting in meditation and this tree just started growing through my body and coming out of the crown of my head and there was this real realization right you've grounded you're here you've arrived so yeah i'm a big big advocate for grounding because i think it's a kind of pandemic actually i think it's we're

ungrounded yeah i think so many of us i've never met somebody that is too grounded. I've met many, many people that are grounded enough, but I've never met anybody that's really just grounded, grounded, grounded. Because it's the demands of- The world that we live in. Exactly. That's just go, go, go. And yeah, it doesn't really cater to that way of being so much. I love what you just said about, you know, it felt like a language that you knew because I was actually, I spoke to someone else about this and I feel that a lot of people I meet

in the spirituality community, whether that's they find astrology or tarot, whatever it might be, or human design, it's a case of remembering for them. It's not something they're learning in the way that other people might be. It's this real coming home feeling. And it sounds like that was your experience.

Absolutely. For people, you know, that might be having those nudges or those feelings of something being off track and, you know, for you it manifested in fainting, but for other people will be different things. Yes. What is your kind of advice on and you know for you it manifested and fainting but for other people will be different things what is your kind of advice on you know how do they know whether that is their body or their soul's way of telling them something to nudge them towards something because like we

mentioned they're often synonymous with each other these sort of rock bottoms and spiritual awakenings and the discomfort or the unease that we're quite quick to kind of solve with a pill or something and just kind of put a plaster on it it's like actually it's the body or the soul's way of trying to tell you something to communicate to you so is that something that you've noticed with the people that you work with and what is your advice for people on that 100 this is this is like one of my greatest passions that exact question and this is why i set up the wellness foundry was because i spent two years in isolation not knowing not even knowing how to ask the question that i i didn't even know how to

contextualize it or put into words what was going on. I didn't know how to ask the right questions. So thankfully, thankfully, this stuff is starting to enter into the fray and starting to come into the collective conscious a lot more, which is really exciting. And, you know, just to be clear, I don't want to suggest that everybody has to reach crisis point and uh and yeah end up fainting before they should start listening to the to the nudges yeah they'll come they'll come in like nudges i was listening to oprah the other day and it's

this thing she explains it as well and i've heard many people where it's like you'll get these little sort of pebbles or these little whispers and then you ignore it and then suddenly you've got boulders coming down and throwing you off course but there's an opportunity to kind of so lately and i was just ignoring the opportunities as many of us do i always call them god's breadcrumbs that's that's the way i describe them is that they are those little synchronicities they are those nudges they are those little synchronicities, they are those nudges, they are those inner twangs that is saying something else is going on here. And, you know, this sounds a bit crude, but it's what keeps me in business because all of these people are coming to me saying, I know there's something else, but I don't know how to adjust

or I don't know how to change track. And that's really, really really difficult that is really difficult and what I say about um because often often the thing that really stops people is that they don't have a community of people in order to bounce off and say no this is perfectly normal what you're experiencing is fine this is the way to work with it this is what to look at this might be really helpful to you in fact they often have the opposite yes yes yeah there's people ridiculing their experiences or sniffing at them or rolling their eyes or because a lot of it's to do with the fact that as children we are inherently imaginative it's the first thing that we are able to do is as we're not taught that we have imaginary friends we have imaginary experiences you see kids with

toys and they're creating this whole scenario in their minds but actually in our schooling we're taught how to have this critical mind and the rational mind and this is part of the reason that it gets very sniffed at because it's like oh you're still in the world of imagination you're still this is fantasy and make-believe and that in somehow equates to you being foolish in a certain way um but i think for the advice for those that are feeling that kind of nudge feeling that encouragement is to just ask now that doesn't necessarily have to be a kind of support group or kind of tangible evidence um but just ask the universe just ask start asking for signs start

asking for it's a little bit what you were saying there right at the beginning of things come into our path when we need them as long as we're aware enough and open enough to kind of recognize and spot that and also a huge huge huge thing again going back to this ungroundedness is cultivate as much stillness in your life as possible which is something that we just do not do we fill it up with everything and even when people are because when people say to me what is your biggest piece of advice for your spiritual practice i'm like stillness actually carving out the time to just you know lie on my sofa or just kind of sit there and listen to some calming music and just be present in my own body because we just don't do that and if we don't create that stillness then we don't create that opportunity

to hear those things or or notice that kind of intuitive ping absolutely from when you kind of went through that whole journey of feeling like ungrounded but then had that experience with the tree and everything when did you really recognize your own gifts was that something that came at that point or was that something that was always present for you it's it's it's interesting because only after starting this work again um and it goes back to what you were saying before about we are spiritual beings having a human experience and when we come down on earth we forget everything we have to relearn it and then when we discover this part of ourselves we're like ah there you are there's no is this like a friends that you didn't even know you had um and it's only now that i look back on my childhood experiences and realize that actually some of, because I was enormously, well, I am enormously sensitive in many, many ways.

But I was an enormously sensitive child as well. And a lot of this was about a sense of kind of overwhelm or being deeply empathic and just understanding the nuances and humours of those around me and finding that overwhelming. And I also remember at about the age of 11, lying on my bed thinking, right, I'm going to astral project and like willing myself to astral project. And I had no idea where that came from. No one, like my parents did sit me down one day and say, right, we're going to teach you how to astral project.

It's just something I used to do. What is astral projecting? Astral projection is basically... Is that when you come out of your body? So you have seven layers of the energetic body. So you've got the physical body, the emotional, mental, the soul body. And then you've got the astral body, which think is the fifth fourth or fifth layer um but it's exactly as you say it's it's when you leave the physical body so it's like you your consciousness is still attached to your energetic

body but it's no longer attached to your physical body and this might all sound like absolute hooey but but it's it's techniques that allows for remote viewing so that people can go and see places either on Earth or in the galaxy. And it's stuff that the military uses. They actually train soldiers in order to remote view and use processes of astral projection to go and spy in particular areas. And this is something that's factual.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's the whole documentaries, there's documentation about this whole process. And this is something that's factual yeah they yeah yeah yeah there's there's the whole documentaries there's documentation about this whole process and this is this is the thing a lot of people kind of really boohoo this but it's yeah it's it's interesting how it gets this sort of dismissed as new age kind of woo woo stuff but then you hear about that but obviously that's just not i mean it's not as common knowledge for people they don't think oh yeah that's everyone knows that the military is doing this channel 4 news um yeah that's fascinating it's this is what i love about this work because any anyone you talk to even the greatest skeptics or even those that are cynic um or empiricist they will all have a story they will

all have actually this weird thing happened to me once or oh actually there was a time when i was younger xyz and go back to your earlier question of like when did i realize it within myself there was a definite tipping point where I realized oh because I think for a long time you do just assume I'm making this up I'm making this up even though you ever think you were sort of mad so this is yeah that's a whole that's a podcast itself but I want to come back to that question because again this is a huge, something that's really, really close to me. But there was one moment when I was studying and I was sat opposite somebody and I had my eyes closed,

which I'm not meant to do. But anyway, I had my eyes closed and on the screen of my mind came this red fox and I hadn't said a word. And then my tutor stood behind me and said, oh, we've got a red fox. And it was that moment where i kind of what on earth is going because he he basically read my mind it was just the oddest

oddest thing he basically saw the same red fox on the screen of his mind but we we hadn't said a word so i was like something's going on here this isn't just make-believe so i think that was a real tipping point but i still you know i still come out of readings thinking isn't just make-believe so I think that was a real tipping point but I still you know I still come out of readings thinking do I just make that up but thankfully I've had I've done enough of them now to kind of that's that slowly decreases but it's always there but I think it's healthy that it's there yeah because as soon as you go the messiah complex it's a real it's starting with one step closer but i think this is as far as i can go i think next time if you see me in a tub and you might have to just pull me aside

but your question around mental illness is deeply it's, deeply personal to me because both my parents worked in mental health. And where I grew up had a mental hospital attached to the village. So we, when I was growing up, we had the most just fantastic people around. Just, you would see, again, it it was wonderful as kids we'd be in the playground and then you would have this kind of quite clearly disturbed person but as kids you just interacted with them it really took out any fear or any kind of judgment and it didn't feel fearful no no it's because as kids you just think's different, but you don't quite know why. So in a way, it's quite kind of, it's quite fantastic. And we had one guy in the village who had, later turned out, had a benign tumour pushing on his pituitary gland.

But it meant that he was seven foot or something, just shy of seven foot and huge. And he had an Alice in Wonderland complex. So he could go into shops but think that he was too big to get back out of them so I remember as like an eight-year-old kid going no it's fine it's fine Ruben come through it's all right and you kind of guide him through and you say thank you very much for your miles but like that was just that was just part of the interaction to go back to your earlier question yes absolutely i spent about a year thinking am i is this madness is this psychosis and i've met people that have been

training as well that have um that again have similarly have even been sectioned at times but then have done have done the psychic development and that's all managed itself it's all settled now of course i wouldn't be as kind of brazen to say all mental illness is just spiritual and psychic awakening it's a really interesting sort of touch point because what you mentioned a second ago about being a deeply sensitive person and i think as soon as you said that what came to mind for me is how for a lot of people that perhaps go in a different direction, they who can't contain or don't know how to manage that sensitivity and are empathic in that way. they might trigger something. But the language that is often used with people that have these mental illnesses and stuff, it is along this kind of vein.

And I've had personal experiences with people that have either been in my family or that I've been very close with that have had drug-induced psychosis. And it has ended up in being sectioned and stuff like that. And I find it a triggering area because there's a lot of it that makes a lot of sense but it's just not grounded and it's quite fascinating how you know to to navigate that space and to to feel you know the practices that you

have to do to keep your sort of spiritual hygiene or looking after yourself and stuff like that because otherwise you could have those same abilities but if it's not handled in a kind of healthy way it can go yeah completely and actually i've worked with people when i when i've run intuitive development groups and done one-to-one psychic mentorship that have got onto that borderline because of the spiritual hygiene or the lack thereof, because no one talks about it. And actually, you're completely right. If that's left unchecked and unmanaged, then it can go the other way. It can swing into psychosis because you're not able to switch it off. It really brings to mind a client that I had who had asked me to look at their mother. And I started tuning in and all I could see was this mother's crown chakra was just wide open, just enormously wide open and kind of too much and you know even looking at it I

didn't quite know exactly the language of how to adjust that and I remember saying to this client oh it really feels as though your mother is seeing things kind of illusionary things because of this thing he's um the client said oh it's really interesting because my mother often says you can't see what i see so it was it was it was really fascinating to realize actually now i think there is a kind of energetic and psychic aspect that plays part into into some what we label as mental illness um and that's why these kind of conversations are so so important and probably why people find it quite scary as well when people are going through that and it feels quite like whoa you know what absolutely because on some level it's feeling that there is something to it as in it's not just yes complete nonsense yes yes because i remember when when i started

training i couldn't go on the underground for a year just because the whole process was so overwhelming i was with my now husband and he used to get really frustrated and go like pay attention why but i was just in everybody's conversations i was just yeah it must have been exhausting yeah yeah it was it was how did you learn to manage that and also to kind of you explained a bit at the beginning about being a medium and communicating with spirits and stuff like that so when did that kind of really come into play and how did you learn to how have you learned to manage it and to kind of harness that so it and how did you learn to how have you learned to manage it and to kind of harness that so it's not something that's overwhelming I always say I use often

use the analogy of you would never leave the front door of your house open and just say come in if you feel free and you know occasionally you'd have nice people come in and go oh your house is pretty and leave and then occasionally you would get people that perhaps aren't so respectful of your space. So energetically, you wouldn't do the same. You wouldn't just leave yourself wide open. And again, this is often one I'm unpicking and undoing with people that are very at the beginning of their journey, that they have very acute and very pronounced psychic or mediumistic abilities but they are a come one come all kind of thing the other analogy is like it's basically like driving through new york city with your taxi light on but you don't want to take lifts it's it's

a very kind of confused message so often um what it's about boundaries it's really about being clearly boundaried and that's just intention really there are ceremonies and rituals and kind of meditations that i do to kind of work with that but ultimately it's just the intention of and again this is this is part of the issue is that it's become quite a fear-based language of i must protect myself well it's gets it gets passed around a lot of people say boundaries it's like well how do they actually what does that actually mean and how does someone actually action that and obviously for you having the abilities you do it's probably quite an extreme end but then i think for other people that just perhaps are a bit too open energetically and are

people pleasers or just say yes to everything it's like it's the same sort of thing in terms of I think we often I'm definitely guilty of it you know and I find it hard to actually until I'm drained until I'm at that point of I have nothing else to give do I only recognize that I've given too much so what are the kind of actual literal tools or rituals that you have the first and foremost is stillness again it goes back to the stillness because that is the time that you realize oh i am a bit depleted oh i am giving too much oh i am actually just needs a bit of nourishment oh i oh and the big thing that was for me was if you're ruminating on something so if you're thinking about it after the event then there's still an energetic attachment there so that is always your first

go-to sign of actually i haven't cleared that out i haven't made that boundary within myself um strong enough so part of that so for example when i used to do readings i would kind of sit and go oh i shouldn't have said that or maybe I didn't get that quite right or and I would think about the person for a day after because I hadn't kind of cleared that off properly so now after the reading you hadn't cleared it yes yes because it's my job to tune in energetically and poke around with the client's permission so I never do that they you know a lot of people ask me at parties why are you picking up on me now well absolutely nothing i'm not rifling through

your drawers um very difficult on a date thankfully i don't have to date anymore because i'm married but when they start poking around you go oh mother issues oh yeah no i'm not earning enough but there's one make life a lot easier it's great it's really great but it's it's yeah it's funny i'll go on to so many tangents but um it's one thing that i do i am determined to write a book at one point which is the psychics guide idioms because old idioms have so much truth in them. And one idiom is, I wash my hands of you. And again, that's not, it sounds almost quite ruthless. It kind of brings to mind an exasperated mother

that's done everything that they can with their kind of tearaway son. But actually, it's something that weirdly, I was told from lots of different kind of directions, but we've got meridians up our forearms that connect directly to the heart and go through so when you wash your hands and wash your forearms um you you're you're energetically kind of breaking and one really interesting thing is that I um I've started teaching uh one-to-one psychic mentorship to somebody that's based in the middle east because there it's you're not really kind of

allowed so i'm working with her so i've been giving her all these kind of rituals like washing and time and time again she's been saying oh that's in the quran oh that's in the quran oh we've got that in islam and it's really interesting and what was great about that is that it gave her enough confidence that i wasn't just saying take off your clothes and dance under the moonlight and she's going feel free no i mean there's probably value in that as well but it's just something that she could wasn't conflicting with her beliefs exactly so it both supported what i was giving her but also supported what i was giving it supported me as well thinking actually because these are just

kind of techniques that i've collected over time but the fact that it was reinforced in scripture was really really fascinating but things like washing your hands after an exchange watching if you're ruminating on things and if you are just say right that's enough I'm going to put an end to it salt baths are amazing as well particularly when you're feeling really energetically kind of grubby um saging is kind of a good quick go-to but the best thing really for keeping yourself in energetic check is kind of changing the scene so if you feel that you're in a bit of an energetic loop or you're in a bit of an energetic side go out nature is by far the biggest and greatest cleanser of our energies so anytime that you can go and walk by trees go and sit by a tree just do any of that stuff that's so grounding and that's so nourishing it's really that's definitely definitely one of my go-tos

in terms for your you know what you do in, obviously, you get momentarily or in sessions sort of entangled or immersed with people's energies because you have to. But for people that might not be aware of this or that kind of thing and the language, when we're in relationship with people, we often get an energetic entanglement. an energetic entanglement and then for when people break up they don't know how you know it's when sometimes you'll bump into that person or like there's still a cord there and I think that that's something that a lot of people message me about and ask me about because they can go for years while still and and part of them kind of wants to keep it there but then also part of them is like well I don't know how to to cut that cord so what what would you advise for people that are kind of going through that that they need to actually clear that kind of energy um yeah we've all been there facebook kind of scrolling through looking through all the images who's that well i think you check their

profile yeah we've all been there it's also the thing the room like speaking with the girlfriend about it when you're kind of like i'm not gonna do that i'm not gonna go there and then it's like starts it's like it just goes crazy so there is that thing of what we're speaking about if you're ruminating but that is also a natural process so it isn't just i would be worried if people were like guillotine's down i've never thought of him since it's like okay or her since so it isn't just i would be worried if people were like guillotine's down i've never thought of him since it's like okay or her since so it is it's worth yes there is a natural morning process or a detangling process but anything like cord cutting ceremonies are brilliant as well so we do create etheric or energetic chords between people and they're not just negative like all of

our good friends um and again that might sound a bit kind of woo-woo or a bit far-fetched but if you think about those times in your life and i'm sure most of us can identify that you're just thinking of a friend and then the day after you bump into them or they call you or you haven't seen them for years and that is that energetic connection so they're really necessary and important it's the thing is it's there are lots there's so many different dynamics so even though to go to your example there of okay i dated someone for two years i spent six months kind of clearing out the closet so to speak feel as though okay that's that's settled and then a year later i bump into them on the street and think what's this about the thing that i i have to remind people often is that we're not always privy to the why we're curious beings so we want to know the why why is this happening why did i bump into

him again and um to quote carolyn mys uh fabulous spiritual teacher, she often says, well, if an angel came down and said, right, ask me any question. And you said, why did my father leave me when I was young or whatever? Or why did that boyfriend bump into? And the angel just went, because we would be so kind of, no, there must be a reason. There must be a reason. And yes, there is a reason to everything, but we're not always privy to it. So there are so many different things kind of all coinciding so we can't always sometimes i have to remind people in readings don't get hung up on trying to look for the meaning of everything because you can dig and dig and but because there are so many tangents to that thing in all honesty in my readings love is often the most

difficult aspect in a reading because there are so many variables because we are working because if i'm talking about health or job or home they're often so self-initiated that they're much easier to kind of um account for the variables but when it's two people yeah it's a lot more complicated actually energetically figuring out if people are with somebody or not is actually quite difficult interestingly enough i can tell somebody where they live in what part of the country i can tell them, you know, their mother's name. But if they're with somebody, it's slightly murkier than, you know, eight times out of ten, it's fine. But there is, it's not always clear cut because it's so kind of complex.

But in terms of what you can do, in its core, you need to... I remember there was a really good friend of mine who broke up with somebody and she said i decided to look at all the qualities that i really enjoyed about this other person and cultivate them in myself i thought that was like oh that's such a good way so good it's it's utterly ingenious it's really profound and i think that this is the issue is that a lot of people don't turn immediately to self-love yeah and i feel that that's by far the biggest um cure to that kind of lamenting and that tension and that kind of drawn out is actually look at how you can nourish and sustain yourself well i think

it then becomes this thing of when that love goes they've they don't recognize that self-love remains or perhaps it doesn't enough and they haven't cultivated it but that that piece you just mentioned of you know often if we romanticize the situation and it might not have even been that significant a relationship in terms of the length of time or whatever but we're really hung up on that person i think that is such a useful thing to be like okay what are the aspects of them that i'm very drawn to or attracted to how can i cultivate that for myself or like what do i need to do in my own life to kind of bring about those things because it's often almost it can be like a bit of

i guess envy in a way these people that we we put these people on the pedestal because they often possess something that we think that we can't achieve or that we don't possess ourselves so i think that's a really useful piece of advice and also saying on the back of that is this is why i often find the language around soulmates and twin flames sometimes dangerous. Because I think it does have its place and its applications for sure. But we've got to remember that soul connections can be just as much about teaching us about ourselves or those, you know, your worst enemy can be a soul connection as much as your greatest lover so sometimes they have been introduced in our lives and taken away again so that we understand the process of loss or we we're resolving something that is perhaps from past life past

life or there's a karmic debt to clear and that's often accounts for that intensity of connection but then also accounts for why it's not meant to be. You've kind of had to, right, I've done that. We've cleared that now, now moving forward. What do people say about twin flames that you think might be, people get wrong about it? And what does it mean to you? So twin flames, kind of etymologically, big word,

is the process that the gods became jealous of man or wanted to punish man because we originally started off as two-headed and four-armed beings. And so we angered the gods, so they cleaved us and split us into two and um as the as the story goes for greater punishment one of the souls is uh not incarnate and the other soul is incarnate so that they can never meet and then only once they meet at the same time on earth and then join then they no longer reincarnate. So that's kind of the... Oh, wow.

I did not know that. Yeah. That's really beautiful. Take on it, I suppose. Very tragic. Yes. As the kind of Greek myths often are. So it's very fitting.

I think the thing with Twin Flames is it's just about this idea of perfection, I suppose. That there's this one exactly and i'm going to be complete when we when we uh when there's a union when we unite with that one then i'll become whole it's it's often why i am and this is very personal i know but oh this is my better half it's like you're a whole you're a whole and you're a hole. I don't mean that kind of hole. A whole person and a complete person. It's not this kind of click. Oh, then everything kind of... Yeah, because within that, if it doesn't work out,

then you'll sort of feel that you're doomed for eternity, which is never a great feeling to be left with. And I've seen the repercussions. I've seen those clients that after my twin flame has now gone, where am I? Right. Where does that leave me? Where's my identity gone? Because that archetype of a partner and that archetype of union has been shattered.

So they're left in an existential crisis so i i think that's part of why we sometimes need to be mindful about this kind of this disney princess rhetoric i suppose 100 you speak a lot and you communicate a lot in like uh in color so you see yes in color and you see people's auras and i was listening to something recently and it was you know you touched a moment ago about how everyone has a story of their kind of a spiritual thing that might have happened to them but they weren't necessarily spiritual and i heard this story about it was i think his name was john diaz he knew he was on he was a guest of oprah and i was listening to oprah at the time and it was i know she's amazing and it was this it was this story and it really gave me shivers because it was saying he was on a on a plane that crashed and it was a singapore airlines plane that went down

and he was one of the few survivors and he said when he was there and witnessing the whole thing it was like dante's inferno it was horrific and people were burning but and he said when he was there and witnessing the whole thing it was like Dante's Inferno it was horrific and people were burning but and he said that he wasn't a spiritual person but what he did see at this time was that he saw people's like a light coming out of people's heads and he said the only way I could describe it is that it was people's auras and some were brighter than others and it felt like that was how an indication of how they'd lived their life and what i learned from that experience was that i wanted to be someone that had a bright aura and that went out with a bright aura and it was just such a i don't know a story that i was like wow that's so fascinating that at that kind of moment

that someone that wasn't you know a spiritual person's witness something like that but the reason i wanted to bring it up because i know it's a very important part of your work and your language and something that people know a bit about but still not that much so would you be able to kind of explain how it how you use that in your practice this is so there's a bit of a background this is partly um uh kind of catalyzed by the fact that i am very very creative as i spoke about before and i am a very very visual person so part of working in fashion so it's not necessarily that because as um psychics or intuitives of mediums or however you want to describe it, just as we have physical senses that are stronger in us than in others.

So, for instance, my sister's got an amazing olfactory ability. She's got an amazing sense of smell. Whereas I don't really, but my vision's very good. So, too, in spiritual and psychic practices practices we have what are called the clairs and so clair from the French meaning clear so it's our clear hearing our clear seeing our clear smelling so when I'm in a sitting for me a lot of my information comes through as a visual impression a kind of projection on my mind my clair audience my ability to hear has increased over time but it

wasn't a natural thing in me so now i'll hear words or i'll hear songs or i'll hear the vision is like clairvoyant yeah exactly exactly so when people say oh i went to see a clairvoyant that's often what they mean and sometimes it's used interchangeably but they're not always the same thing um so i work very very clairvoyantly so for me i the i work a lot with symbols and color because again this is this is really for me a psychic language because i'm trying to translate energy into language it's a very difficult thing to do because it's a bit reductive it's you're taking this vast concept and trying to kind of articulate it is the words aren't always perfect for that kind of journey so what sometimes in my sittings i can see people go why why are you talking about a blue

um a blue budgerigar what what is he talking about but what what's useful about that is because if i say to you oh you're really tired and you go yeah i'm quite tired but if i say oh they're giving me an image of a hamster on a wheel for instance that's more evocative for how in which way you're tired so these symbols tend to stay with people much longer but i also understand that that sometimes for people, they can be a little bit more obtuse. They can be a little bit more, not necessarily obtuse, esoteric, I suppose. They're kind of, it takes a little bit. So there's kind of pluses and minuses to the way I work. But in terms of colour, again, I just, it's something that really, really speaks to me.

I think colour is so evocative um and it is so spiritual and it informs and you know we quipped before of this cult leader look that i'm cultivating but there is a reason that i've wanted to start wearing white because i was walking down not knocking anybody that's wearing black in the room but i was walking down the streets of london just saw a sea of black and i just thought oh but for me aura colors as well as such a reflection as you were saying before of somebody's personalities their humors their um what's going on for them energetically at that particular time so anytime that somebody sits down to me nine times out of ten eight times out of ten that's where i'll start because it's for me the easiest in because it's the most evident part of people

for people that might be a bit skeptical of tarot and i think there's sometimes i don't know i was brought up in quite a christian framework so tarot was like devil's work the devil's playing cards yes so how how is that kind of how did you gravitate towards that? And did that feel like picking up a language that you already knew? Because for people that perhaps like trying to tap into these aspects of themselves, what would your advice be? Like if they wanted to kind of learn tarot or to kind of harness their intuitive powers or whether they think they have something going on,

like what would your advice be on that? It's interesting. The most viral video I've ever made was Can You Be a Christian and Read the Tarot? Bizarre. Of all the ones that, of all the teachings, of all the stuff I've ever spoken about, it was one of those things.

And it was getting shared in like Christian meet groups on Facebook. And it was just, yeah, it just went really viral. It's really of those things. And it was getting shared in Christian meet groups on Facebook. And it just went really viral. It's really, really interesting. Because for me personally, the tarot brought me closer to God. And again, that might sound bridge. But it really, really did. And actually, what's great is that within the tarot, there is Adam and Eve. There's Jesus. There's the Madonna. There are there is adam and eve there's jesus there's the madonna

there are those characters within it so i i it's not um it's funny it's like the tarot are doing uh kind of opened on to the christians for the christians are going no no we don't want anything to do with that party which is which is fair enough and I think some of the images in in the tarot are very very evocative um so I I do understand it but I think what my mum always says because it's she fears that it's sort of putting too much faith in a human being as opposed to it being faith in in God that's what and I think because people fear that it sort of tells them things they don't want to know or messes with fate and i'm sure you've experienced people that come to you that then sort of do place so much responsibility on you to be their guru and guide and everything is resting

on what you're going to say what the cards are going to say and that in itself can be a slightly dangerous place to be i know i've got friends that are like you need you need to chill out on the on the sessions and stuff absolutely and there is a moral obligation for me and my team to ensure that that doesn't happen so one thing that we um we do advise we've even written to clients sometimes and said you've booked in one too many times we've just very kindly declined your latest booking please come back in a month we do you know we were very very aware of that one thing that I always say right at the beginning of every reading is take what's helpful leave what isn't never do something just because i say so or the cards have

said so always always allow your intuition and your instinct on anything to be your first port of call and then if this backs it up great do it if it inspires you great do it if you've come away thinking that sounds brilliant i really want to do that fabulous but we will never never dictate go and do this we'll never force anybody's hand or a good reader shouldn't and the other thing that we always clarify is that um it's not about fortune telling it's not prediction it is merely possibilities and probabilities that lay in front of you that you may or may not want to move towards but like anything in our lives where we place our focus attention and time is what's going to cultivate so again the the analogy i often use is if you go to the gym every day you're going to get fit that's not

fortune telling that's effect and that's cause and effect and that's kind of what we're looking at and then also it's really interesting i'd never thought of that actually you're placing too much prevalence on a human not god but for me in my readings again this might sound like the messiah it might sound like the ego thing but it is a conversation with god because you i mean obviously for people that are listening they haven't had a reading with you you do have a very specific way of doing it that is amazing but you are communicating is it with your spirits or my spirits or whoever you're with because it's it's like nothing i've ever experienced before and it was an incredible thing to witness and would you be able to explain a little bit about that and what it's like mechanics it's

funny i was literally about to go on to it so it's perfect perfect question i just want to say it's a very quick aside one of the best summations i've ever had of a reading as somebody a client can he said i just feel like i've seen an hour-long play a one-man play and the whole play was about me i thought that was the best review ever I was like yes that's exactly what I'm reading is so in terms of the mechanics in certain way I don't know and I purposely don't get too hung up on the mechanics of what's going on because I think if I start to insert myself too much it it kind of starts to make it crunchy. But from the little tweaks that I've sent out, it's a real mixture of so many things that are going on.

So in part, my guides are chatting to your guides. My guides are going up to source and pulling information down from there. There are times that I'm reading your info, so I'm using my psychic ability, so i'm not necessarily using my guides but i'm using so when i'm looking at your aura that'll be through my own intuitive things and again we all have that we all have you know it's in our lexicon when people say oh i didn't like him he had a really bad aura that's what we mean or you know when people when you feel people are getting too close it's because they're encroaching on your energetic space and there is a definite kind of

crossover point so again this is not kind of it's just more heightened in me because i've been doing it more that's that's kind of the only reason yeah but bingo thank you so much for joining us with your wisdom. I'm so pleased to have you on the show. Yeah, it's been gorgeous. Thank you. And we'll see you soon. Bye. I hope you enjoyed this conversation between myself and Finkle. I really like what he talked about in terms of seeing things

or working with symbols and colour and how that's kind of his own personal way but you know on reflecting on this conversation I think we have our own abilities to interpret things to kind of tap into our intuitive knowing and our gifts however great or small they may be if you want to hear more from Finkle you can find him and a collection of other practitioners at the Wellness Foundry. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Saturn Returns. And if you enjoyed it and found it useful, I would love it if you could share it with a friend or write us a review on Apple, because that really does help us get discovered by more like-minded freethinkers like yourself.

And as always, remember, you are not alone. Goodbye.