Saturn Returns with Caggie - Awakening the Soul’s Calling: Rebecca Campbell on her Saturn Return, Motherhood, and Navigating Life’s Transitions

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

In this episode, Caggie sits down with bestselling author and spiritual teacher, Rebecca Campbell, to discuss her Saturn Return and the profound transformations that followed.  Rebecca shares how her Kundalini awakening, the loss of close friends, and the transition into motherhood all played a role in her shift from a successful corporate career to fully embracing her soul's calling. Throughout the episode, Rebecca explores:  🪐 The significance of Saturn's return, and navigating major life changes 🪐 The experience of a Kundalini awakening and its impact on spiritual growth 🪐 The importance of intuition, inner guidance, and aligning with one's true purpose 🪐 The lessons and initiations that come with the journey of motherhood 🪐 The role of ancestral and collective healing in Rebecca's work 🪐 Practical advice on taking small, intuitive steps towards your destiny If you're navigating your own Saturn Return, or you find yourself at a crossroads in your life, this conversation offers invaluable insights and inspiration.  Tune in to hear how Rebecca embraced both the darkness and the light, and ultimately aligned with her soul's deepest calling.  — This episode was made possible by Hertility, the go-to brand for women’s health, offering hormone and fertility testing, online consultations, and in-person treatments with the UK’s top experts. For £10 off your first order, use the code Caggie10 here and get started on your journey to peace of mind. Follow or subscribe to “Saturn Returns” for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn’s return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. You can follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram and subscribe to her Substack “You Are Not Alone" to stay updated on her personal journey. You can also find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok. Order the Saturn Returns Book here Join our community newsletter here Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here

You might remember my conversation with the wonderful Dr Helen O'Neill back in season 9. Dr Helen is the founder of Hertility, the go-to brand for women's health, offering hormone and fertility testing, online consultations and in-person treatments with the UK's top experts. Fertility is a topic that comes up in so many conversations, yet it's something we often overlook until it's too late. Fertility makes it easy to take control with a simple at-home test that gives you peace of mind about your hormones and fertility.

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but Hertility empowers you to take control. For £10 off your first order, use the code CAGI10 at hertilityhealth.com and get started on your journey to peace of mind. Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Today I sit down with Rebecca Campbell, bestselling author, spiritual teacher and intuitive guide whose work has touched the lives of thousands worldwide. Known for her books, Light is the New Black and Rise Sister Rise, Rebecca's teachings centre on awakening to your soul's purpose,

connecting you with your inner light and embracing the sacred feminine. Through her words, courses and oracle decks, she inspires people to align with their true selves and live a more connected and fulfilling life. She has been a name that has been circling around in this space for many, many years. And so I was so excited to finally sit down and meet her. And we got to have this beautiful conversation together in my sitting room. And I feel there's so much synchronicity between her work,

her latest book, and kind of what I'm doing at Saturn Returns really, so the terminology, the language, the way that she kind of went I'm doing at Saturn Returns really, so the terminology, the language, the way that she kind of went on this journey. And so I think if any of you are kind of at that point where you know something needs to change, where you feel out of alignment with your soul's purpose, that this episode will help.

So I hope you enjoy. Bec, welcome to Saturn Returns. Here we are. Yay. I feel like you have been one of those names in this space that we occupy that has been around for so long that I feel like I'm like, oh, it's like, I need to speak to this person. Finally, it's happening. I'm so excited about. And you have an amazing new book, which I've been delving into, which I feel like there's quite a lot of synergy between like, Saturn returns, the kind of the journey that one goes through and the things that you talk about. But for the audience that might not be familiar with your work, would you be able to share a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Definitely. I think I'm a mystic. And to me, a mystic is someone who is a deep feeler, a deep thinker, and just fascinated by the sacred and the big questions of life, which I sense is most of the people listening here today. My work is really about intuition in the soul, ultimately. So it's about closing down and quietening the external noise of like what we should do, the life that we should be creating

if we're being good little boys and girls and doing the right thing versus being internally led. So it's about like saying yes to your destiny versus like, you know, just doing what you think you should do. So I think everything really comes back to that. Yeah. And that is something I think so many people struggle with. Yeah. We're so conditioned to be led by the chatter

or the conditioning that we completely tune out of our inner knowing really and our soul's purpose. And then I feel like people, that's often why the Saturn Returns journey is so pivotal in this stuff, because it's when people finally have that moment where they're like, I'm not living for other people anymore. I need to do what I'm supposed to do. And I think that's really important the way you just described that because these like sudden returns is an astrological transit that we go through. Like it's like it's part, I like to kind of see all the things that are happening astrologically as like,

they're just part of our nature, like the cosmos is part of nature ourselves and we're part of nature as well. And so like built into our journey are these initiatory gateways where we get to become even more of who we are. And it's easy when we've arrived there. Like I remember when I was approaching my Saturn returns, I started having a lot of sleepless nights where I'd wake up at 3am going, oh my God, this relationship I'm in, this job I have like dedicated myself to, this life that I've so consciously created, all of a sudden I'm very astutely aware that it doesn't fit my soul. Now that's not to say that it didn't before. It's just, it's not like I had everything wrong before. It's just, I'm stepping into even more of who I'm becoming.

I'm entering a different phase of my life. And I think that when we, there's seasons for everything. Like in my 20s and early 30s in particular, I used to work really hard. I put all my life force into my creations and that was like amazing. Now I'm a mom and I'm like learning how to not work so hard and winter, you know, we're heading into winter now.

I'm like, how can I rest into that season, you know, so you can be in the potency. And so I think it's really important for us to not see it as like, oh my God, I've got it all wrong rather than how am I changing? How's life trying to initiate me right now? And I think if we resist those changes, that's when we get stuck. Totally. And that feeling of stuckness is information.

It's good. It's just how stubborn are we going to be? Like, Oh my God. Very. Yes, exactly how stubborn are we going to be like, Oh my God. Like, yes, exactly. And we sure as I'm like, yes, exactly. Oh my God. Like how can I, how, how much tighter can I cling to this to just check if it would really work, but there was also time and place for that.

Like I remember when I was in that moment of like, Oh my gosh, the relationship, for example, is not right for me. It's not like I just gave up on it. The moment I had that first thought, I gave it my all and then I'm like, oh yeah, I need to call it now. So what was going on at that moment in time for you?

Like building up to your Saturn return when you started having these sleepless nights and this sort of niggling sort of, this is not right or this is not what I'm supposed to be doing. Yeah. Well, I had just reached my long-term goal of becoming a creative director. I was working in advertising. So I had- So career-wise peak of success. Exactly. Lots of, lots of achievement. Like I've made it, I've done all the things that I said I wanted to do or that I was told I should do, you know. I've reached the destination, but it just doesn't feel right. So there was that.

Then at the very same time as that, there were two other things happening. One is I'd been on a spiritual journey since I was 14 and had my first awakening. journey since I was 14 and had my first awakening. I'd been fascinated by the, the, um, the mysteries and, and intuition and all of that. But I, I'd never seen it as like a career or a path. I just saw it as like my passion. And I was in a bit of a spiritual closet. So I, it was like a bit of a double life thing. You know? LWILEY But you were still practicing it or it's still part of it. Oh yeah. And, and, but I got to this point where I'm like, I'm actually just as qualified in this passion as I am my career.

And so there was this crossroads of like, what I really want to do here. A bit of a dichotomy, I guess. Yes, exactly. And then I think, and maybe you can relate to this where it's like the, the phase of being the creative director and putting myself in a way like a brand in the industry of like, this is who I am, where there was this other part of me that was really a big part of me, but I hadn't revealed it

to many people. And so feeling this in authenticity of like, I need to bring more of me into the center. And then also, like, I remember when I, um, I knew that I needed to leave my career. Um, and I was trying to work out how to make it happen. And a big part of it, when I teach people this all the time now was giving myself an elevator pitch, which is what I would tell people that I was going to do. So I didn't tell my, you know, the, the board of directors that I was leaving to go do a car shape record soul readings. They knew me as a copywriter, as a creative director. Um, and so I said to them, um, I've always wanted to write a book.

And I'm in this really unique situation where I don't have a relationship anymore. I don't have kids and I feel like this is my moment. So I'm going to give myself six months to write a book. Now that was true, but it wasn't all the truth. If I had have told them all the truth, they would have been like, what the heck? You know?

Which could have then impacted the way that you viewed what you were going to do. Because I was just becoming who I was going to be, and we're constantly in that state. I think that's an important note on that that I would just like to push because we all know when we have a desire in us or something in us is wanting to be awakened or come out.

And then we speak it too soon. And we almost are like speaking it to someone to get validation that it can be brought to the forefront and to life. And if you speak it to the wrong person, it just suppresses it back down again. Because you're like, Oh, no, that didn't, they didn't see it. They didn't see what I see in myself. And when you're not that sure about it, it's like, just hold that sacred a little bit. Yeah. You're so right.

Because yeah, really, I used to think it was like people were just so they would, they would have an opinion of what I was doing. I've come to realize people don't really care so much. It's all about us individually. And so often when you say something, it might bring up fears for someone who is like, oh my God, I would love to do that, but I don't know how to do it.

And you know, and then- You don't know where it's coming from. No, exactly. But then I think also if we are like, I love how you described it as like a little seed. So it's like, you got to keep it, keep it precious. And I think it's really challenging increasingly so and in a world where like people think they know who you are and like, there's this image and opinions that people have. And then, I don't know, like I feel a lot, I don't know if you do as well,

like as like a public figure, people are like, you're not who you said you were. And I'm like, no, I'm not that person because that was me like 10 years ago. People aren't very, don't allow much grace for people to change and evolve. So not everybody, but that is always reflective of the person's own inability to let themselves change and grow. And we live in a world that because of social media, you're always going to have people

that are going to cast their opinions or tell you what you should or shouldn't have done with your life. I mean, it's mad. Or accuse you of changing and you're like, yeah. I got something on, saw someone had written on like, I don't know, an interview I'd done and they were like, you should have married so and so when you have the chance. When you have the chance. Thank you for that.

Oh, okay. Okay. But taking it back a bit, because you said when you were 14, you had your first spiritual awakening. Yeah. Was this in Australia and what did that look like? Yeah, it was in Australia. Two things happened like within about a month.

First one was I meditated for the first time and experienced, it was just like, literally it was a sports teacher did a, did a, like a free meditation class at lunchtime. Like it was very random and not like no one was meditating back then. And she introduced us to chakras and, um, I started feeling now I know what that feeling was, but it kind of freaked me out a little bit because it felt like, um, a lot of energy and kind of like a subtle shaking. I know now that is Kundalini Shakti rising, right? And well, around my sudden returns, I really got to know what that was. Tilda We're going to get into that. Ange It's, um, so that was something awoke within me the first time I meditated, for sure.

It was subtle, but palpable at the same time. Then I had the strangest thing happen, which was like completely out of left field. I grew up in a family that wasn't overly spiritual. I didn't learn any of that stuff. And I read this article of this mother who had just lost her daughter, who was around the same age as I was at that time. It was in one of those, you know, magazines where you read to find out what's happening to your body

and how to kiss boys, basically. And it was this article and she was talking about losing her daughter. Her daughter had just died. And I was just completely moved by it. I started sobbing, like out of nowhere. This was not normal behavior for me, but I felt a deep connection to her and what she was talking about. I went to school, I went to Catholic girls school, and I was sitting on the Holy Drive,

we would call it with my friend, a group of friends, but one of my friends, Jenny, and I showed her this article and I said, the strangest thing is happening, I'm just feeling these huge feelings and like I need to find this woman and I just wanna make it better. I wanna, I just know I need to find her and I know this sounds like really weird

and she's like, yeah, that is really weird. But then she looked up and said, that woman over there looks like her. And it was her. What? Yeah. And then I went to, like, it was like, my body was just moved.

Like, you know those moments where you're just like, whoa, something else is happening here. And then the deputy principal kind of intercepted me and asked me a question and I looked around and I kind of lost her. So I was like, did I just imagine it? What happened? Then once we were done, I turned around and ran into someone. It was her. And this is a woman called Angela Wood. And she was there talking to the senior students

about I mean, it was don't take drugs, but really, it was like, cherish your life and tell the people that you love, that you love them, you know? And anyway, we ended up becoming really good friends. It was an odd relationship, but it was like we just knew each other. It was her birthday that day as well. And she'd asked her daughter what her birthday present was. And she just kind of knew it was me. And I didn't understand it at the time, but now I look back and I can see,

because I then would, would create a lot of stuff. Like I would write poetry and everything to give to her. And I think I was channeling to her and I would sit with Angela after school several times a week and just listen to her and like imagine, like see, I would sit there for hours, like just listening to her story and, and feeling so comfortable in her grief. Which again was, there was no reason for that. She would then in school holidays take me to the different schools that she was talking to when I had different school holidays and then she'd speak at other events.

And so I would like basically go on the road with her. And she was a motivational speaker. And she took me to my first Hay House event. Hay House is my publisher. I was like, I think 15 or 16 then. And seeing all of the speakers and she whispered to me, that'll be you up there one day. And so she really was a big influence and initiation on my spiritual journey as well. She took me to loads of workshops

and I always got like the free child ticket. So, yeah. So she sort of initiated you into that world. Yeah. Yeah, like that meeting opened everything up for me. I then became fascinated by past lives and what happens to the soul when we pass. I'd always been a deep feeler, used words and poetry to try

and like make sense of my big feelings. But this was like a complete mind awakening. And yeah, and then I, but there was, it's interesting because I became a mom, I've got a five-year-old and a two-year-old. And it wasn't until I had my son that my mom shared this bit of information with me about when I was born, which helped me make sense because there was quite a few mothers who had lost children who I then connected to and we developed relationships with, which I think this was why I was in a bit of a spiritual closet, because it was, it was so weird that those things happened, but it was so true as well. Now, further on my journey, I'm like, well, that's mediumship. That's like, you know, you're connecting in with the energy of people who have passed.

I understand it now. I didn't understand it then. But when I had my son, my mum remembered that when I was born, there's not enough beds in the hospital. There were lots of babies being born and it must have been a full moon. And so we, she ended up giving birth in a hallway. That's how many babies there were. We meant to have a private room, but it was just literally in the hallway. And then we shared a room with another mother who had just lost her child. And so as I was crying, like to be fed, it would bring her milk in and trigger her grief. And so in my first like days was this kind of celebration of life and death all at once. And having, you know, you always pick up pieces as you journey on. And I can see, like, that's why I was so comfortable in a mother's grief.

And it felt like I've had these instrumental relationships in my life, who are all women who had lost their children, who I then kind of came in and then they offered something to me and I offered something to them. And so it's something I'm so passionate about, like this blueprint of our birth. Like there's so many incredible things that it can unlock and open. And this isn't to say that like, you know, if you don't have a glorious ecstatic birth, you know, it's going to be challenging. But like, I know that my soul chose that.

Like, if you look at my astrological chart, it's like all frickin' Scorpio, like. Yeah. So yeah. And it's also given you a gift. Exactly. Yeah. And then so after that, when you kind of were put on that path,

but then you were very successful in the career and during your Saturn return, sort of did everything kind of come undone? So what made it all come undone was my best friend, Blair. He was an actor. He passed away very suddenly. We had said, we met at university, we made this pact that when we become successful in our careers, we would write a book together on the spiritual path. I got the call when I was in London,

that he'd just entered a coma. No one expected it. It was a very rare form of leukemia, like just literally happened. Got on the plane and as I was flying to him, I felt his presence on me and I knew he had passed. And I knew in that moment, like everything needed to change. I think death does this to us. Any significant loss does this to us. It's almost like it tells our, it's like our brain can't, is exhausted by the grief. And so it just kind of gives up a little bit. But this is the opportunity because the soul, the light within us is like, right, well, what's the point if I don't truly live? And so we have these opportunities when we experience rock bottoms or loss or disappointments

where even though things feel like they're so, so dark or so difficult, we can actually in that darkness see the light even more clearly because the distractions aren't there. And so that really was a catalyst. And then literally it was just before my 30th birthday. So a couple months after that, I think it was about three months after that, my other really good friend, we called her Wildcat passed as well very suddenly. And her Facebook profile is literally Blair and her together it's the most bizarre

thing and so it was just like boom boom and then my 11 year relationship ended as well and it was just it was like my ego finally begged for mercy and let the soul step forward and to lead. Um, I'd heard the whispers. I'd heard, I knew exactly the direction I was being called in. But you just weren't quite ready. I wasn't quite ready. And I think I needed the pressure and the, the crumbling of, you know, me. It was like, I was trying to hold the scaffolding up together.

And then when the rug gets pulled from your life, you just can't. And that's kind of liberating as well. To come undone. All the things to come undone, exactly. It's like when your worst fears are recognized, there's something empowering about that. Because you're like, well, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then what, so you then started doing the book? Yeah, so I went from five days to three days in my career to work on my business.

That's smart. Yeah. That's very smart. And I was living in my studio in Notting Hill at the time. And oh gosh, I loved that. That period of my life was amazing. It was all the things because it was so I was having this Kundalini awakening around this time. So let's talk about that because when I read was reading your book, I was really happy to read that part because I experienced

a Kundalini awakening, a spontaneous one that freaked the shit out of me. And I didn't know what it was. It was, I can say this because this is my podcast, but it was during a facilitated psilocybin ceremony. Yeah. Yeah. And that then activated Kundalini awakening. Yeah.

But for the people can be like, what the hell are they talking about? Because I did think that I'd gone a bit mad. Yes. So, okay. So Kundalini Shakti. So it's not Kundalini yoga. That's the first thing people think. Oh, it's Kundalini yoga.

No, Kundalini Shakti. It's the feminine pulse of life. It's the sacred energy of the earth, of the universe. And it's said that it is dormant in the base of our spine. Like a coiled snake. Exactly. And it seems to, so everyone's journey with it is individual because it's an intelligent energy that kind of knows what to do. And part of it is like surrendering to that, but it tends to present itself as this upward spiraling of energy. So from the base of the, of the spine up, going up through the chakras up to the crown and, and beyond. And I've had a couple through my journey. The most significant was in that stage during my sudden returns, I was in Notting Hill and I would

wake up kind of like really like shaking as in not shaking as in like, um, I'm going crazy shaking, but just literally like, like, yeah, just, yeah. Yeah. And, um, my teeth would chatter as well, like, like that. And I'd be like, this is the most strange thing ever. And I look back now and I think I'd heard of the phrase, but I didn't understand what it was. We were talking before when we were making a cup of tea about how,

you know, we're always given the right information at the right time. And for me, for the Kundalini awakening, and maybe you were the same, I was definitely meant to have a direct experience with it rather than kind of go at it from my mind because it's of the body. It really is of the body. And the ego has to be completely out of the picture. Exactly.

And so I experienced that. With that came, mine was on the whole, this particular one was on the whole, a positive experience in that I experienced, um, ecstasy really. So I was literally like, this is amazing. Like this sensual life force energy was just oozing through me. I remember going for my walks in nature, up Portobello Road, to Holland Park, and then Hyde Park, and I began to see, like, almost like codes in nature,

the beauty that I just hadn't seen before. So it was an incredible experience, and it was interesting as well, because it happened, like, after the relationship. And so I was, like, not in a relationship with anyone, but I was, like, feeling this incredible with anyone, but I was like feeling this incredible sensual energy that I'd never felt before. And so, yeah, that was, that was what it was.

But I was like going to work and I would notice like my leg kind of start to shake. Yeah. Cause you're kind of crazy. Totally crazy. Cause it's the sort of shaking that you can't do. You can't shake that shake. Yeah. I'm trying to do it do. No, no, it's that. Yeah, I'm trying to do it now. And it's not it's not like shaking that it's it's subtle.

And it's the energy moving through you, moving through your chakras as well. And but I could control it personally. I know that's not everyone's experience. So, yeah, that happened. And yeah, around the same time, um, it happened around, um, it was just after this winter, I think it was like 2011 to 2012. Um, you know, I don't know if you remember, it was like the world was going to end. And I just, it was literally like a all by myself, Bridget Jones kind of scene where I,

the relationship had ended. I was still just aching in grief, but feeling an excitement or a hopefulness of this new chapter, I could feel beckoning me forth. So it was kind of the two together. I'm from Australia originally and my ex had gone back to Australia and I would normally go to Australia to be with family

for Christmas, but I knew if I did that, it just wouldn't be good with that breakup. And so, like, right, I'm gonna hunger down in London for winter. And I had loads of friends, but this particular year, like, everyone left. And so it was like, I was literally in winter at the end of the world, um, in my apartment. And, um, I, I went somewhere for Christmas day and stuff and, you know, had a nice new

years, but ultimately I'm there in that dark period on my own. And I hadn't really done a winter in the UK, like all the way through. That's brutal. It's so brutal. Oh my God. Especially if you're's brutal. It's so brutal. Oh my God. Especially if you're from Australia. You're like, it's so dark.

But I remember I got, my bum set me muddy. I went up to All Saints and I bought myself the most gorgeous, like cream cashmere jumper, and that was like my little Christmas hug. And I really decided to properly descend into the winter, this period of my life, which was like a real ending and a beginning. And it was the first time I really got the medicine of the seasons, which is if you let yourself sink into that fertile void where it feels like nothing's going to grow again. Oh my gosh.

That's when the seeds of spring will come through because it seems like, you know, and we're approaching winter here now, um, but in that darkness and you're like, where are the flowers? It's all drab and dark and you walk in the park and it feels like everything. Nothing will grow again, but in reality, beneath the surface, nothing has ever been more active. And this is what happens in these moments of our lives. So it's like, yes, we're exactly the same. We're exactly the same.

And so if anyone listening is like in that period where it's like everything's been crumbling, should I let it go? What am I clinging to release it? And, um, oh my gosh, am I in the darkness? So is this the end? Like, what is this? And it's also the beginning. If you fully let yourself like release and, and, you know, even if it's something

like a friendship ending, for example, you know, we can cling and cling and cling and run it all around in our head. But if we actually let that end properly, and then take a moment before rushing onto the next thing, we'll have more of our life force, more of our energy there with us. We're not very good at that. No. We're not very good at that. No, well, we've been raised in a society in a time that we're so disconnected from nature. We're so out of touch with the seasons that rather than seeing them as a gift to work with and to reflect our own inner world, it's like an inconvenience because we're trying to keep up the same pace and the same momentum throughout

the whole year. And it's just not sustainable. It's not sustainable. It really isn't. And this is the thing, like we really have been programmed and we are, I think there is a shift happening now. Like I've seen so many books come out on wintering and how to winter, which I think is amazing. But for me, what I got programmed into me is spring, summer, spring, summer, spring, summer. If you also look at

like the feminine and the archetypes of the feminine that are embraced in society, spring, which is the maiden, summer, mother, holy mother, you know, autumn and winter, which is the wild woman, the, the, the powerful perimenopause menopausal woman. And then the Crone, the elder is coming in and, but it's their medicine that we most need right now. And so this is the shift that is so needed. Going into that, cause I do want to, I do want to go back to the Kundalini, but now we're on that subject,

because I know that motherhood and stages of womanhood is a big part of the work that you do. What are your thoughts in terms of the space in the world that we're moving into now with, I guess, an awakening of the feminine and appreciation perhaps of the different stages of being a woman. Yeah. Well, I think that we are realizing, with so much incredible work, particularly in the

perimenopause menopause area, like I feel so grateful for our generations where we actually have that information now. And there's so much talk in spiritual circles about like the new earth, for example. And I know it's just a phrase. So I'm not like saying it's a bad phrase. But we have become so disconnected from nature that we assumed that it's like the new earth, but it's not like the earth is going to arrive. It's like the earth freaking knows how to survive. Yeah. Do we with her.

And I think this is the real shift that we are experiencing where you just put on the news, you, you, you open your phone, social media, you see all of the extreme things that are happening on the planet right now. And we have a, a, a news feed scrolling constantly bombarding ourselves with these huge, huge, huge topics that we need to get our head around. And we realized that it's impossible to continue the way that we have been. And so, yeah, I think that we are in a period of extreme transition, extreme change, and that it is urgent for humanity to wake up to that. Not get overwhelmed by it because that just

creates more trauma and more inaction. If you think about it in terms of the way we've been speaking that you may have those niggles and the whispers, but then it's sort of forced upon you. Do you think that that's going to happen collectively? Because the narrative is like, we need to wake up and we need to make these changes but are we actually going to do that in time or is it something that you think might be more enforced? Oh, I think that it is possible for us to adapt and react but I think the most important

thing is that we need to not get overwhelmed with it being such a huge issue that because we become helpless in that sense. Like I see so many people in my workshops in my, my, my peer groups as well, where it's just so easy to go into paralysis because it just feels so hopeless. Whereas if we come back to the soul, which to me is out our innate intelligence, which is connected to the same intelligence that tells the flowers when to bloom, the seasons to come and go, the whole planet to spin. If we find our way back to being connected to that, Saturn returns is part of that. It's part of our destiny arc. It's part of the blueprint of our life. If we say yes to how life is calling us to change individually, it will happen collectively, but if we get so overwhelmed at like all the things and be like, this is all the things and be like, this is my responsibility, then that is really the programming of, um, like colonial capitalist living that says that I'm

separate and that I need to do this. You know? And so I think that what is so needed is for us to come back to ourselves and to each other and to connect in with what we're individually being called to do. I see it like we've got this, we each have a thread that we're holding for the healing of humanity. And if we just reach out and hold that thread and follow that thread, then there's something really incredible that only nature knows how to do. And we're connecting to that intelligence,

rather than being like, oh, I know exactly how to do this. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. And for, you know, going back to when you were having that experience when you were going through the winter on your own here, and that was just after your Saturn Return, or are you still in the midst of it? experience when you were going through the winter on your own here? And that was just after your Saturn Return or are you still in the midst of it?

I was like near the end of it, but yeah, I was in it, but yeah, it wasn't right at the beginning. And then what kind of fell into place after that? Well, literally in that window, it was like between Christmas and New Year. I started my business. I also committed to writing every single day. I'd asked myself, because I knew that like my heart was aching, but it was wanting to crack open. And I was in the depths, but I also could feel life very present. So I was like, okay, I want to really step into my purpose and I want to be

create a life that like lights me up. So I asked myself what lights me up? And my answer was like quite unexpected. And I was a bit like annoyed at it, to be honest. And it was flowers. Because that it just felt really like trivial flowers really. But I knew to trust my intuition by that stage. So I started buying myself flowers every week. I'd go to the flower market. And that's when I discovered the rose and the peony and I would buy myself beautiful bunches each week and create these little altars around them. And I noticed that when I was surrounded by beauty, poetry came, the whispers that

I so effortlessly felt when I was surrounded by beauty, poetry came. The whispers that I so effortlessly felt when I was younger, it was just there. Then I discovered, like being from Australia, I did not understand how incredible London parks are and were at that stage. And I discovered Regent's Park Rose Garden where there's literally like over 30,000 roses there. David Austin, which is my favorite breed of roses. They're so fragrant and gorgeous. And so I would go there every day on my way to work. And as I would walk, I knew I was stepping into,

like I was becoming someone else. I knew that I had a calling that was calling me forth, but I wasn't quite there. So I would do that walk and imagine each step I was taking is like a step closer to who I was becoming, you know? So when I was going to work in this job that I knew wasn't in alignment anymore,

I wasn't resenting it. I was just like, oh, every step I'm closer to where I'm going. And I committed to doing a meditation in the park and writing something every day. If I only had five minutes, that would be totally fine. I'd have to write a paragraph no matter what and post it on Instagram. So I started doing that. Um, I'm writing about this sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I basically just started writing to myself.

So what do I need to hear today? Mmm. And then sharing it. And sharing it. And then, cause we're so connected, people who resonated felt like, oh my God, I needed to hear that today. Yeah. And it's also so powerful that such a simple discipline that's really actionable within what you were already doing, then sort of paved the way for you.

This is the thing. And so within six months, I had a publishing offer contract. And then I'd written the book, probably it took me another like, three or so months of like full on writing. And I'd moved to Marlborough at that stage. And so I was even closer to the park. The park was like where I would spend all my time riding. And I remember when it was due, I had my MacBook Air and I like clicked file, save on the Word document and close my laptop and looked up and just began to cry because I realized

I was in Regent's Park Rose Garden where I'd written the entire book from park bench to park bench to park bench. And this seemingly trivial, simple thing of what lights me up and then acting on it each day had turned into this complete whole nother life for me. And that blows me away. And to me, that is an example. And we all have these examples of how that thread that we're holding, if we just follow that thread and let that

intelligent, innate part of us lead us, then this tapestry that we're creating is beyond our wireless dreams. I've seen it over and over again in my life, in my students' life. We all receive guidance. I don't know anyone who doesn't receive guidance. I don't know anyone who doesn't receive creative ideas. What stops us is we're trying to figure out every single step along the way before we take our first step. We want to know the end destination. And that is so normal. we're trying to figure out every single step along the way before we take our first step.

We want to know the end destination. And that is so normal, but that's not intuitive living. We're not in that magical, intelligent pulse if we're trying to think about every single move. In terms of creative ideas, downloads, or being guided, where do you think those things come from? Oh, I love this question. So I believe that there is consciousness that's wanting to be birthed into like the collective at different periods of time.

It's why many artists have similar ideas and then they just express that in their own unique way. I believe that intuition and creativity come from the same place. So when we are connecting in with our intuition, it's not like, like, some of us might be, might have, um, different senses than others. Like some of us might have inner visions or inner hearing or whatever. They're just the body senses. Really what we're tapping into is our inner guidance system that is connected to the intelligent pulse of life. That same thing that tells the flowers when to bloom, the planet to spin. And I believe that from a form of creativity, the same, it's sourced from the same place. It's why right now with everything that we're facing in the world, we need artists to open

up and receive those, those ideas, those songs, those books, those artwork, because this is what creates new dreams, new ways forward for us. So I do think creativity and intuition come from the same place. If someone's listening to this and they have an idea that they've been sitting on for a while, but they're sort of like, oh, I don't know, and then why that it perhaps is coming from a place of ego or

distraction. How do you think they can differentiate between whether it's, you know, kind of pure download that they should follow versus something that's going to take them off course or driven by their ego? One way to do it to know because it's really really, it's what's the, how do you tell the difference between your head and your heart or your head, your ego and your, your soul, for example, um, is voicing it out loud. So you'll probably know when you say something that feels true, you feel resonance in your body versus it just feels a bit wonky.

So that's one way to do it. The other thing to pay attention to, and you can do this by talking to someone about your idea, for example, or just doing a voice note, for example, is notice how your voice changes as well. Does it constrict in your throat? Does the pitch go up? I know when I'm talking from my head, I'm like, Oh yeah. And then this happened, you know, and it's fast. It's angular. There is an ulterior motive. I'm trying to control or whatever.

It doesn't mean it's bad or we're bad. We're like, where the ego is a great thing as well, you know? Um, but knowing the difference and how it feels in your body is so important. For me, and I find most people, when we're speaking from what I would call our soul or our intuition, our pace slows down. There's a cadence to it. Like there's a flow to it.

And there's, it's more subtle, but there's a flow to it. And there's, it's more subtle, but there's a depth to it because there's no pushing. The soul intuition isn't trying to like make something happen. There's no like ulterior motive. It just is. So yeah, but I find that the lowering of the octave, I think, is a really good one to realize. And also, if someone shares it with somebody that they trust and asks them or tells them that basically and says, can you please notice how I... Let's say they have three different directions that they kind of think they could follow

and they're like, oh, maybe I do this, maybe I do that. And then actually sharing each one with someone and then them saying, when you were speaking about that, you kind of got restrictive or spoke very quickly high pitch versus this that was a lot more expansive. Because it's hard to notice when it's just ruminating in our head. That's why I guess you're saying, say it out loud. Say it out loud.

Yeah, because you bring it into, into form, into, yeah, into, into vibration really, because that's really what we're putting out there when we're putting creations out there. But I know also like as a creative, one of the things that can, can, um, lead us to paralysis is like trying to pick the right thing. And I always say, just like, no, put your ideas up on the wall first. Or how it ends. Or how it ends, oh my God. It's just like, just pick one, just pick one

and just go for it. And you'll know when you're in it, if it's not right, but don't sit there in the paralysis of like spending years working out which is the right one. Because I think that all that energy just kind of builds up and it just drives us insane, you know? Same thing if you don't know the book title, don't worry. Just like be like, like, who am I writing to? And write to them, write to yourself, you know, create for yourself.

Because if you create from that space, then people who have that resonance with you, cause we're all connected, will feel it. Yeah. And that's all that matters really. And I think it's important with creative pursuits or things that we want to do in our career, I think there's always like the expectation that it needs to be this humongous success or it's not worth pursuing. But I actually disagree because I think if you find

even a small community of people that really share that resonance and value who you are authentically, that is so much more fulfilling than pursuing something that's completely out of alignment, but may bring you a lot of success. It's so true. I mean, like I can tell like, you are an artist in many different ways. And I think that for us creatives,

it can feel like I have to just express it in a certain way, particularly if we have success. It's like, you know, we go from being the mystic, the artist, the poet into like the machine in a way. And that's just so soul destroying because it's like actually like so far from the essence that we created the magic with and in. And I always think my problem is that I want to do too many different things. Totally relate.

Share too many different stories and too many different mediums and it's all... Yeah. Like that does... I worry that then there isn't like a clear through line. I know what you mean. I struggle with exactly the same thing. Yeah. And that's when I think, am I just distracting myself? But I can't help it. It's kind of the way that my mind. It is what a creative is.

And I think that it does help to focus, but I don't think the focus has to be like, I'm only doing this form of expression. I think the focus is for the next three months, this is where the potency is going to go. I really like Rick Rubin speaking about this. Oh my God. He's written a book called The Creative Act and he is a very established producer, but he's got a very unique music producer, but he's very, very spiritual. And the way he speaks about all this stuff is

like, do something to the best of your ability and then let it go. And like all of it's an offering to God, he says. It's like, it's not about the result or how people perceive it. It's like, do something that you feel really good about and let it out into the world. And it's just so simple, but it's so true because it stops us getting that sort of paralysis of, oh, but if people don't like it, and if it's not that successful, if I don't get this opportunity from it, then I shouldn't pursue it. And you don't know where that thing is going to lead you. It might take you, like that tapestry may go in a totally different, you're like, wow, I never imagined doing this, but. Totally, that's so true. Yeah. And the different forms of expression can like,

unlock doors within us that then open other doors, like not even just opportunities. It's just, you know, it was just the pathway for something else to come in. And I remember someone once saying to me, a mentor saying that when you, um, birth a creation in the world, whether it's like a book or whatever, it's like, um, offering this, um, adult child to the world. So it's like, you've, you've gestated it and it's, you've given birth to it, but you, you don't get to live with it. It's just like a formed adult who is off leaving home and, you know, completely

independent, connected to you, but really doesn't have anything to do with you anymore. That's a good way of like having a little bit of separation. Oh God. Yeah. And in terms of motherhood as part of your journey, how much has that changed your sort of sense of identity and, and of your journey, how much has that changed your sort of sense of identity and your work really, or your perception of things?

Hugely. Um, I never knew if I wanted to be a mum. I knew that I was here to create and that I had a mission in the world. So that was clear to me before I even thought about having kids. Like literally, I remember saying when I was like five, that that was the case to my mom. And so to be honest, it quite freaked me out and scared me becoming a mother, because my worst case scenario would have been to lose myself in the sense of like, feeling trapped. Yeah.

Basically now I'm losing your autonomy. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Um, now I became a mom. Um, I was a geriatric pregnancy then an advanced jerk. Which by the way, is not that old. I got pregnant at 38. Had Sonny at 39.

They can't call it that anymore. I'm sorry. They look, apparently they're not meant to, but they fricking do. And it is so offensive. Seriously. It's so offensive. You're high risk just by getting pregnant basically, which is ridiculous. Um, but anyway, so I, I, I had, um, Sunny and Goldie and I had Goldie at 41, I think I was.

Now, wow, like it completely changed me, but not in the way that I thought it would. I was afraid that I'd lose myself and you do, you really do. But what I didn't realize is that there is like this third you, which is like the initiated you that is the invitation is to say yes to that. Also motherhood, the most physical experience of my life. I'm not even just talking pregnancy and birth, which for me, I, you know, I'm, I'm a spiritual student. I love all of that. So I used it. I was like, yes, my body is knitting soul into form. Like I get down.

And so, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to see the portal, the gates of life. Like, and, and I did when I gave birth to my son, I literally, I connected to all my ancestors. Like it was the most, Sunny's birth was very painful and very initiatory. It was all the things you expect it to be. But it was... Where were you? Were you in Glastonbury? I was at home. I had two home births, um, in Glastonbury, where I live now. And, um, yeah, I had...

I found some great support in order to do that, because it's quite a thing to give birth, particularly if you're in a bucket of high risk and you're there saying what's true about your body. This is one of the greatest initiations that I had was to come back to my body and work out what was actually true about me and my baby, which was in some cases different

to what I was being told. Because I was being put, I was a number, you know, and I get why that's helpful in some cases. But it can also be not helpful. Because it's so much fear again is taking you away from your innate wisdom. Exactly. And what could go wrong and like that you can't do this on your own, whereas women have been doing it since the beginning.

And it's all, you know, it's all in balance. But anyway, motherhood, the birth was a huge initiation spiritually for me. Being a mother, oh my god, I did not expect so much of the growth that was going to happen, which was really hard as well. Like, for example, for example, like, there's a thing called reparenting that I had no idea about where basically the, the, the child at their age can. And I think it's like, I think if I had kids before I was as conscious as I am, not saying I'm the most conscious in the world, but I think the more conscious you are, maybe the more things come up because you're aware of it.

You know, this is true about life anyway, but oh my God, motherhood definitely that. So basically this re-parenting thing is that the child triggers in you, the unhealed parts of you. Whoa. And so when I had my son, all these pre-verbal experiences that I had started coming up for healing. I did not expect that. The other thing-

Give me an example. So, um, okay. An example was, um, okay. It was within the first couple of weeks, postpartum, I was walking, I would walk into the room and I had my friend, Binnie, who is a woman in her mid eighties, who teaches about birth basically. She was there and she would announce, here comes the goddess, every time I walked into the room and I would like roll my eyes and be like, no, like my boobs are leaking. I haven't washed my hair. I got vomit on me. No, I'm not the goddess. And she kept on persisting. Here comes the goddess. Here comes the goddess. Here comes the goddess. And the amount of repetition she gave, and I really respected her as a teacher, really.

And so I kind of was like, she's trying to point me towards something. And it took me that amount of times to then look at my son and basically see how he was looking at me, which was not like I was a goddess. It was like I was the goddess, like literally creator of life. And I was. My body created him. And the amount of love that he directed at me was so huge that it almost destroyed me because it was so much. And love brings up everything that is not like it.

And what in that moment it did was me realize how much we put on mother, this one person, to contain all of that. I'm like, is it even humanly possible for me to receive that amount of love? And then it made me at a cellular level, remember me as a baby looking towards my mum like that. And was she able to receive me like that? Because also that not being able to receive that love

is nothing to do with the person that's's or baby that's trying to give it. It's to do with, you know, your, like you say, your own unhealed parts that kind of reject it because they're not, they don't feel deserving of it or whatever it might be already. Trauma, hurt, loss. And so we close our hearts off, we close our hearts off and then, then the love comes to us and it almost like melts that away a little bit, but what's frozen and has been melted

then comes up for healing. So that was just like an example of a moment that obviously wasn't just a moment, but I was not expecting that. I think also the thing that motherhood has taught me is like how to actually live spiritual principles. So for example, like, okay, not being attached to the outcome of things. Like I am so attached to the outcome of the world now because I've got these kids,

you know, and I realized that it's not possible to actually live that spiritual, um, practice when you genuinely care about what's going to happen in the world, you know, things like, um, letting go of control. Well, my God, you've got a toddler throwing up, um, and you know, waking you up all through the night, I'm like an eight hour night sleeper, not anymore, you know? And so you just have to adapt to it. And the moment you think that you, um, have it sorted with them, like, yeah, they're sleeping through the night or yes, they, they're crawling and

everything's childproof, they change. And so it just forces you to be in this nonpermanence, like I've just like, okay, I'm just going to be in the moment-permanence. Like, I've just like, okay, I'm just gonna be in the moment and react because that's all I've got to do this. So it always been in that arena, but I hadn't gone deep into mother healing, healing the mother line, mother archetype. So that definitely came in in a really big way. The other thing that came in really strongly was ancestral and collective healing.

Because my experience of literally giving birth, I connected to ancestors. I connected to, in one of my births, it was like the energy, like the grief and the rage, but the love and the strength of like all women who've ever done that. And so there was this connection that happened, which then is definitely more deeply in my work, particularly the ancestral healing piece. Yeah. And inner child stuff too. Oh my gosh. I've got some friends who have teenagers and because I was like, just need to get through these early years.

And they're like, oh, the teenage years, the teenage years. But, Kaggy, like when I became a mom, it was also COVID. It was also, I was in my, like, there's another other astrological transits, which are a little bit further on from 36 to 42, which are like the midlife crisis ones. Yeah. So I like chose a pretty intense time to be a mum. But also I feel like that's quite fitting because that is like a Saturn, I think in opposition where you kind of like an up leveling. Totally.

Yeah. There's Saturn, Neptune, Uranus and Pluto. Pluto's the harshest. Everyone thinks it's Saturn, but Pluto is a motherfucker. Pluto is literally the underworld. Pluto, um, I think it was like forbidden to actually say the planet Pluto because it meant hell. because it meant hell. But it takes you into the descent. And so basically, your feet are held to the fire, but you're made in that fire too.

But yeah, maybe that's the next book. Maybe, we'll see. But for those that want to kind of find more about you, where is the best place for them to do that? And also do you have any, I know it's kind of hard sometimes, but like final things to share because a lot of our audience are women that are going through transitions in terms of purpose and career, perhaps thinking about motherhood. So I feel like a lot of what we've discussed is very, very important. Yeah, for sure. Well, yeah, my best place to, to, I guess, go deeper with me is my book,

Your Soul Had a Dream Your Life Is It. It's like in all the places and, you know, I'm on social media and my website and all of that. So you can check all of that out. I do Oracle cards as well. If you, if you fancy that's kind of a good gateway. Um, but in the sense of like, yeah, final, final word, final message, I would just say like, to, to really don't let the things that, that you're afraid of or that are like a contraction to you, shut you down. Like, so often those things that we are afraid of are actually where the medicine is for us. And so, yeah, for example, if you're afraid of motherhood, lean into that. Like, there's information there. It doesn't mean that you have to go there and do into that. Like there's information there. Doesn't mean that you have to go there and do it, but that there's a jewel in there for you.

And yeah, I would just say anyone who has, like we're all intuitive, we all have something that we're being called towards constantly. And try not to get overwhelmed with all the things and just, I call it, take a baby step. So what's your soul calling you to do today? And what's a baby step you can take that would literally take one minute, two minutes? No. Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you for coming on the show. I hope you enjoyed this conversation between myself and Rebecca. Like I said at the beginning, I felt like there were so many synchronicities between her journey and mine and the themes that she covers and Saturn returns. So it felt very very appropriate to get her on the show and I've loved reading her new book so if you guys want to check that out it's your soul had a dream your life is it and if there's any topics that you would like to ask me about feel free to message

either myself or Rebecca I know we covered some pretty big ones including Kundalini activation which is a fairly abstract and wild thing to even get your head around. But I hope that you enjoyed this episode and that it brought you comfort in whatever you are navigating because I feel that this dichotomy that a lot of us face in terms of we're living a life that feels out of alignment and we don't know how to change cause is so common. But I do believe that there are niggles and nudges that come along the way that help guide our path. So it's a reminder of that. So thank you so much

for listening and as always remember you are not alone. Goodbye.