Saturn Returns with Caggie - Cultivating Joy: Radhi Devlukia-Shetty on Ayurveda, Self-Discovery, and Finding Balance

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

In this uplifting episode of Saturn Returns, Caggie sits down with Radhi Devlukia-Shetty - New York Times bestselling author, chef, and wellness entrepreneur. Radhi opens up about her deeply personal journey of self-discovery, the profound influence of her Indian heritage, and the Ayurvedic traditions that have shaped her life and work. Together, Caggie and Radhi explore the transformative power of holistic living, emotional awareness, and the practices that can help us all cultivate more joy and balance. Radhi shares insights from her book JoyFull, offering a heartfelt approach to wellness and practical guidance on incorporating Ayurveda into modern life. She reflects on the challenges she’s faced - from navigating personal growth to balancing life in the public eye - with vulnerability and wisdom. This episode is brimming with actionable tips, inspiring stories, and valuable lessons for anyone seeking to nourish their mind, body, and spirit. Topics Covered in This Episode: 🪐 Radhi’s journey in writing JoyFull and how it embodies a holistic approach to wellness 🪐 The influence of her Indian upbringing, family values, and her mother’s daily homemade meals 🪐 An introduction to Ayurveda and its practical applications for everyday well-being 🪐 Radhi’s personal transformation after moving to New York and discovering her path 🪐 Balancing personal and professional life while managing the pressures of social media 🪐 Emotional awareness, processing emotions and communicating needs to loved ones 🪐 The importance of self-care rituals like journaling, breathwork, and creating intentional space for yourself Radhi’s authenticity shines throughout this conversation as she shares her story with honesty and warmth. Whether you’re curious about Ayurveda or looking for inspiration to deepen your self-care practices, this episode offers powerful insights that will leave you feeling empowered to embark on your own journey of self-discovery. — This episode was made possible by our friends at East Healing. Visit easthealing.com today to explore their full range of acupressure products and start your journey to enhanced well-being. For a limited time, you can enjoy an exclusive discount with the code ‘SATURN15’ at checkout. If you enjoyed this conversation, don’t forget to follow Saturn Returns for more episodes exploring wellness, spirituality, and personal development. Share this episode with someone who could use a little extra joy in their life, or take a moment to comment and share your thoughts. Your feedback means so much and helps us reach more listeners! Keep up with Caggie: 🪐 Follow Caggie on Instagram: @caggiesworld 🪐 Subscribe to Caggie’s Substack: You Are Not Alone for insights into her personal journey. Discover more from Saturn Returns: 🪐 Instagram, YouTube and TikTok 🪐 Order the Saturn Returns book: Click here 🪐 Join our community newsletter: Sign up here 🪐 Explore all things Saturn Returns: Visit our website

I have long been a fan of Chinese medicine healing tools, so I am delighted to share our partners for this season of Saturn Returns, the amazing East Healing. Formerly known as AcuSeeds, East Healing is the UK's leading ear seed brand and a luxurious destination for holistic health enthusiasts, blending the ancient art of acupressure with modern elegance. You may have seen them receive investment from Steven Bartlett on Dragonstone back in January. My mum gifted me an AcuSeeds ear seed kit for my birthday this year and I've been a fan ever since. These small beads are placed on the ear to stimulate pressure points, helping aid stress,

anxiety, headaches, sleep, and improve overall wellness. I love their luxury take on this ancient healing tool. Their collection includes 24 karat gold Swarovski crystal, pearl, and nickel-free options. Visit EastHealing.com today to explore the full range of acupressure products and start your journey to enhance wellbeing. For a limited time, you can enjoy an exclusive discount with the code SATIN15 at checkout.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Today, I am joined by the lovely Radhi Devlukia Shetty as we discuss her book Joyful and get to know everything about her and also Ayurveda and the role that it plays in her life. Bardi is a chef, a content creator and an entrepreneur. She is a New York Times best-selling author and the host of a really good cry podcast. She's also the co-founder of a drinks band Junie. It was no pun intended such a joy to meet her and sit down with her and she just glows and radiates. And I really enjoyed this conversation and learned so much from it. So I hope you do too.

Welcome to the Saturn Returns podcast. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me. You look so elegant and sullen by the way. Thank you. It doesn't happen often, honestly. No, I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me. You look so elegant and sullen by the way. Thank you, it doesn't happen often honestly. No, I'm usually a sneaker girl. I'm in heels once in a blue moon. I feel like I really got my sneakers on and whenever I follow you online,

I always feel that you're very like me. Yes, oh my gosh, this is a very rare thing. I came from an event, so I feel a bit more dolled up than usual. I probably dress like super relaxed 90% of the time. And then there's that one moment. Exactly. And it makes it feel really special when you do.

Exactly. But yeah, you look stunning. So how's it? Because you've just released a book, which is super exciting. Can you tell us a little bit about that whole experience? Three years in the making. It's called Joyful. It's a cookbook.

It's got recipes, over 125 recipes, but then it's also got all these wellness rituals and practices, and anything that can take you from morning to evening, whether it's taking moments of breath during the day or eating food that really nourishes your body. Everything that I have found has enriched and brought little moments of joy in my life. I've essentially poured into this book. And so it's so much more than just a cookbook. And I'm so happy that I got to finally release it after three years in the making.

Three years. I was like, I don't even know whether my name's gonna be the same three years later, but it was great. It's been such a wonderful process to actually finish something and have it out in the world. It feels unbelievable. Yeah. And how's this look? Because birthing a book is a big deal. How does it feel now that it's out and it's obviously done incredibly well?

I kept saying it feels like an overbaked baby where I was like, get out now. I'm done with this. Get out of me. Yeah, it feels amazing because I thought the book was quite a niche book. You know, it's plant-based, which makes it somewhat niche. And then a lot of it's about my heritage from my family. And then it's also holistic and it's roots from Ayurveda, which is, you know, an old Eastern philosophy. And so there were so many things that in my mind made it a niche book and I was so happy for it to be that. And it goes to the people who really resonated with it.

And then when I put it out there in the world, the response was just so magical. And I couldn't believe that it was, you know, hadn't thought of lists or numbers or anything when I was writing it. I'm not really a numbers person, but then I started seeing how many people were buying it. And yeah, just all these random lists that it was getting on.

I was like, this is amazing. How has this even happened? So it was definitely a pinch me moment. Well, congratulations on it. So for the audience that might not be familiar with you and your work, can we bring it back right to the beginning of, because you said a lot of this is inspired by your heritage and your upbringing. What was that like for you growing up?

And where did you grow up? Where did you grow up? Yes, I grew up in Watford. I was born and raised in the UK by my family who we all have Indian heritage. My parents were born and raised in Uganda and my grandparents are from India. And so I had so much culture growing up. When I was growing up, I didn't feel like culture just felt like normality for me. But now, you know, having experienced so many different things in life, I realize how lucky I was to have such deep rooted culture throughout my life. And my grandma has been a big part of my life from when I was born till now. And, you know, having that generation around you, you don't realize how much you learn and how much you absorb

that people don't normally do if they don't live in a family which is close and with each other all the time. Which I'd say in the sort of Western world is often not very common anymore. No. We don't raise each other with our whole... Parents, grandparents, everyone together. And so my mom, my sister, my grandma, they all live within walking distance from each other. And so, yeah, I grew up in a family where my mom had a full-time job,

but she still would make homemade breakfast, lunches and dinner every single day. And again, that was my normality. But now looking back, I'm so grateful because she really, it wasn't just food. She wasn't like, let me just slap this on a plate and eat what you get. It was an experiment in the kitchen for her. She experimented so much with flavors and just poured so much love into the food that she ate and that she made.

And so I feel like that kind of went into my bloodstream because my grandma was the same. Like she was a refugee when she came to this country and in the refugee camps in Scotland, she was volunteering to cook in the kitchen for everybody. And so I feel like it's kind of the connection with food, a really positive connection with food comes from my family and having those moments with them.

And then I actually went on to study nutrition. It was something which I wasn't planning to do. As many brown people in the UK, I was thinking about becoming a doctor, but I didn't get the grades to be honest. I wasn't smart enough or I didn't pay enough attention. And so my mom recommended me doing this nutrition degree that was kind of new and people hadn't heard much about

at the time. And so I went on to do nutrition and it just opened up this whole world of understanding how food actually affects the body and it gave me these foundation, like the foundation that I needed to really understand the basics. Like I feel like my degree gave me the basics and then I was able to build on it through all the other things that I've done up till this point.

And what was some of your discoveries in that period of studying nutrition that you really realized? Because it sounds like it was already in your family, this very like wholesome, healthy way of nutrition and eating. And then you went and studied it. Did you realize that actually the way your family was doing it was right and understand a bit more why? Yeah, definitely. And my mum was definitely very health conscious growing up.

She was, she always worked in the health sector and she became a fitness instructor. She trained as a fitness instructor and would do that for women within our culture. She would do these little Bollywood dance classes or workout classes. So she was always very mindful about what she was eating and what she was feeding us. But when I went into nutrition,

it was really interesting for me because in Western medicine, you end up treating someone when they're at the point of disease versus the prevention, which is now something we're all working on in Western culture. But most of the time it's we get this disease, we get this condition, let me heal it. And then when I went on to study Ayurveda, which is something I studied much later on, Ayur means life and

Veda means knowledge. It's essentially a 5,000 year old health system that is probably the most ancient health system to exist. And it really teaches you how to optimize your health through understanding your external and internal environment, but on an individual basis. And so when I started learning that, it made me realize that you can start, you don't need to get to a point of disease. There are, it says in Ayurveda that there are seven steps before you even get to the point of disease or a health condition where we treat it in Western medicine. And instead it teaches you how to tune into your body and understand your body in a way where you can start recognizing the symptoms on a day-to-day basis where,

oh, my digestion feels like this. That means I need to change this. Or I've had headaches or my hair started falling out. Seeing all of those symptoms as our body telling us there is something wrong and we need to take action now rather than when we get diagnosed. And so I feel like my family kind of lived according to that growing up and you know it roots from India and so you know when I would have a cough or a cold, my mom would turn to spices instead of cough medicine.

She would put spices in hot water and you know give me that or when I got a cut cough or a cold, my mum would turn to spices instead of cough medicine. She would put spices in hot water and give me that. Or when I got a cut or a bruise, they'd make like a turmeric patch and stick it on there. And so I definitely feel my family healed a lot more in natural ways than turning to normal medicine. For those that aren't familiar with Ayurveda, would you be able to kind of explain what that is a little bit more? Yeah, definitely. So yeah, like I said, Ayurveda means life, Veda means knowledge.

It's essentially the practice of tuning back into your body. I feel like we're so disconnected now because we're constantly listening to outside voices about eat this salad, eat this superfood, eat this vitamin and your body will be incredible. And it's kind of taken away the individualness of health. And what it is, it's a one size fits all. If you eat an avocado and I eat an avocado,

our body will react exactly the same way and we'll have exactly the same result. But we know that's not true. Because you'll do a workout, I'll do a workout, my body will react completely differently. And so Ayurveda is all individual. It's based on your own constitution, they call it. Like how your body is made up.

And it's not that someone tells you what to do. It's that you start learning where your body thrives the best in an external environment. So whether it's the colors you have around you, what you allow into your senses, whether it's the sense that you're smelling, whether it's the food that you're eating, but then also your internal environment. What is the food that I'm eating? What is it turning into? How is it making me feel? Because food doesn't just affect your body, it has the ability to affect your mind, your mood, your energy levels, everything internally.

And so Ayurveda essentially teaches you that how can I optimize my health on an individual level? And so whether it's through the food, the practices that you're doing throughout the day, the rituals you're doing, it incorporates every single part of your life. And that's why I love it because it's so holistic. It's not just about what you eat. And it goes into the different elements.

It does. Because I actually had a very short consultation recently. Oh, did you? And I was thinking, I was like, there's no way that she's gonna be able to tell anything by- Did she listen to your pulse? Yeah. Yeah. And she listen to your pulse? Yeah. Yeah.

And she said to me, I try and recall she said that I was. Cuffer pitter. Air. Oh air, vatter. Vatter. Yes. Yeah. And that I needed to eat certain things.

Probably more grounding, nourishing, heavier meals. Yeah. I was like, how has she been able, and a lot, she went on far more than that, but I was like, how is she been able, and a lot of she went on far more than that, but I was like, how has she, cause it was very accurate. But I thought, how can she possibly tell that from just feeling my wrist for a second? I know, it's amazing.

So in Ayurveda, it says that our, everything around us, including our bodies are made up of the five elements, earth, water, air, fire and ether. And when those elements are in the body, in Ayurveda, they also have categorized those elements into three doshas. Kapha, which is earth and water, Pitta, which is fire and water, and Vata, which is air and ether. And so even if you think about it, like it sounds complex, but if you think about each of those elements and what, when you visualize that element, what it looks like to you, fire. It's intense. It's warming to the body.

It's, you know, if you think about mind and body, it's something that's exciting and stimulating in the body. When you think about air, what does that look like to you? It's free flowing. So if you think about that in the mind, it's creativity. It could be feeling like you're all over the place and feeling unsettled. You know, air can have, and look, every element has its good and its bad. it could be feeling like you're all over the place and feeling unsettled. Yeah. And look, every element has its good and its bad. It's positive and negative.

Well, your speech, it reminds me also so much of astrology. I feel like there's so many correlations between our star signs and this. Definitely. And so it teaches you almost when you learn what the elements are and how they affect the body, you can learn how they navigate through your body. And so the food that you're eating, is it increasing the heat in my body? Is it making me feel stimulated or is it making me feel calm? And then depending on what your dosha is, that's what we call it. Your constitution is your dosha.

What she said to you, you've got more air in the body, which I imagine she told you you are a vata body type. And does that mean that that's like my body type or is that just in that moment? Because that means that you proportionately have more of that in your body. And so there's a one constitution that you're born with. That is your original constitution. We have all in us. However, two might be more predominant.

So let's say it's in percentages. So you might be 50% Vata, 30% Pitta, and then 30% the other one, vata or kapha. And so what that means is when you're predominantly one, you have to kind of counteract it through what you're having, because you could get imbalanced within that dosha. And then potentially get sickened. Exactly. So if you're vata, for example, amazing. When you're imbalanced, you're creative. You are free flowing.

You can, yeah, those are the main like really good qualities of it, but when in balance, you can feel quite impatient. You can feel all over the place. You can feel unsettled. You can feel like you can't quite get things done. Your mind feels like it's all over the place. So what does that mean? To get back into balance, I need to do the opposite. So I need to have foods and do activities that slow me down,

that help me to focus, that realign me, that are nurturing and nourishing to my body, because right now my body feels unsettled and all over the place. And so really it's about when you find out what you are, you can always counteract things and optimize your environment externally to make sure that you're constantly coming back to balance every single day. When I'm feeling that way, which to be honest at the moment is quite a lot. Well, you've had lots of change in your life. I've had a lot of change and so needing to feel grounded. And the worst thing I can do in that is like not eating properly.

And by that, I mean like having takeaways, having like process, missing meals, exactly. And then it just, and having too much caffeine for me. And then I feel like I'm about to take off. Caffeine will hit you all over the place, especially if your air quality is already in balance. Talk to me about that, because I have a bit of a love hate relationship with caffeine.

Like I'm probably quite addicted to it. And you become, I become a bit like addicted to that anxious sort of all over the place. Yeah, because you kind of feel like you're being more productive that way, right? Yeah, it's like putting gas in the car. You're like, okay, I can go, but then I feel like I then crash. Yeah, you know, with stimulants in any form, the fact is our body, if well, should not need anything to help energize it

beyond the food that we're eating. And so when we become reliant on a source for our energy to wake us up in the morning, to put us to sleep at night, whatever it is that we're using to do what our bodily system should naturally be able to do, whenever I think I need something like that, we're like, whenever I wake up and I'm thinking I need a coffee or midday, I need a chocolate to revive me

for the rest of the day, I kind of see it as a symptom. And I see it as a symptom of something isn't happening right. Because my body is a fully functioning, a beautiful vessel that should be able to do everything that it needs to, to keep me going. And if it's not, what am I missing? What am I doing wrong?

What am I overexerting myself or am I not fueling myself enough to be able to do the things I want to do? Because that's the point, right? It's either you, you either, um, work to where your body's at. And if your body right now is not feeling great, you end up toning things back, or you can, you can change your capacity and your abilities by fueling it better because everything is just what I feel my body is what it's going to give out. And so I then think about what am I doing during the day?

What's draining me? What's fueling me? Food, people, the activities I'm doing, the things that I'm reading. And so I always think about taking inventory. That's what I usually call it. Take inventory every single day, every single week. Such an underused word. It's great though. Or every month, just sit there and think, what am I have got in my life that feels useless, that I no longer need, that I'm holding onto,

that is weighing me down? And it could be anything. Oh, it could be any. It could be the people we're talking to. We're gossiping a lot. We're talking a lot about other things and people that actually aren't fueling us, but are draining us.

Or we're like not enjoying something, but then we're just talking about not enjoying it. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And not changing anything. And I think about this with meditation too. I talk about meditation a lot in the book because it's a practice that has changed me so much. But- When did you start meditating?

Oh, like 10 years ago now. Yeah. And, you know, so many people are, oh, I sat down to meditate and I just can't do it. It's just my mind's all over the place and I just can't. And I remember one of my teachers saying to me, you're sitting down for 20 minutes, let's say half an hour, let's say an hour. What are you doing for the rest of the 21, like the 23 hours in the day? Because what you're doing in those 23 hours will depict how still you will be able to sit in that one hour.

But what do you mean by that? As in if you're like hectic all over the place, you're not gonna be... Yeah, or where is your mind at? I think a lot of it is to do with lack of presence. We can live a lot of our day where our body is in one place, but our mind is in another. And so being conscious and being mindful actually means being mindful. Like I am present in this moment, full of mind and body. I am here and I'm attentive and I'm looking at you and I'm seeing, I'm not thinking about anything else. Because a lot of our energy gets drained when we are in one place, we're thinking about 10 hundred other things. And you seem incredible at practicing that just from the aura that you give off feels very aligned.

I can be such a vat, I can be such an airhead, like by airhead I mean, literally an airhead where I feel all over the place and I've really had to practice. One of the things that has helped me so much be present in moments, like I just did with you, is just taking a breath. Breath work is such an underrated practice, but breath, when I did my yoga teacher training, they taught us that breath is the anchor between the mind and the body. So whenever you find your mind running away from you, use your breath as an anchor to bring you back.

And it sounds so simple, but my goodness, we do not use our breath to even 10% of the capacity that it has. We all shallow breathe throughout the day. And so that is a simple thing. If everyone's like, oh, but I'm so busy and I've got all of this. Just first of all, start taking breaths, deep breaths throughout your day. Whenever you find your mind racing, whenever you feel your body going faster than you want it to take a second and breathe.

That's actually, so when I had the consultation about the eye of a to staff, she, she was obviously just picking up on a lot of what was going on. And she was like, I know you're not meditating and you're probably telling yourself you don't have time to meditate. She was like, but do this. She was like, I do this three times a day. She was like, in the morning, the afternoon is like a pick me up before I go to bed.

It's just breathing like for two minutes, slow breath. And she was like, and just focus on the air and the breath going up to the bridge of your nose and then back down. And it's been so helpful when I feel myself kind of spiraling. I'm like, okay. But then also at most evenings, me and my boyfriend will sit next to each other. We'll both go be going. I'm goingoking it out. The more whoever's doing it, the more of an indication of like how stressed they are. How the day's been.

Exactly. So we're just there going for hours. It's so good that you know there are different breathworks for different things. And I do different breathworks throughout the day, depending on how I want my body to feel. And that's what's so amazing. If you think about when we have different emotions, what changes? Our breath changes. So when you're really upset, like I know when I'm crying, my breath goes really short and I'm, you know,

and when you're excited, it does the same thing. When you're calm, your breath slows down. And so I talk about in the book, how I do different breathworks at different times of the day for different reasons. So in the morning, if I want to get focused, there's a breath work for that. What is it? Oh, so what you were saying, so it's called anulomvuloma, alternate nostril breathing.

And so what it does is each nostril is actually linked to different sides of the hemisphere of the brain. And so to help rebalance and refocus, depending on if you're kind of imbalanced in one area or the other, you take a breath in from your left nostril, hold it at the top and then release from the right. Can we do it? Yeah, let's do it, okay. So you put two fingers, your index finger

and your middle finger on the top of your head. You put your thumb on your right nostril. Okay, I've got a snotty nose, so you're gonna hear my sniffling. And then you breathe in from the left. Hold the breath at the top for a second and then release from the right. And then breathe in again from the right.

Hold at the top and release from the left. So that is the breath to help rebalance. Feel better already. Right. And then in the afternoon, I do a breath work because I normally get that midday slump to energize. This one is called Kapabhati, which means skull shining. And it's called that because when you do this breath, it increases the oxygen in your body. You almost feel tingling in your head.

And Kapabhati is essentially deep inhales in and short exhales. So it goes like this. Oh no, hold on. And you do that and eventually you notice, like, I already feel a bit of tingling at the top of my head. You do that for even a minute. You notice oxygen just flowing through your body because you're increasing the oxygen that is even flowing through.

And so that's one that I use to energize. And then at night, doing a simple yogic breath. And by that, I mean, you take a deep breath in, you feel the air, you visualize the air going through your nostrils, down your throat, into your chest, into your stomach. And with each breath, you feel that you channel the air you're breathing into different parts of your body and you relax it. So you think, okay, I'm sending this to my feet and slowly you let go of any tension in your feet.

You send it to your hands, your shoulders, your neck. And it is such a beautiful, like it can be a three minute practice you do just before you go to bed. But it really helps to settle you into the space that you're in to actually flow into sleep better. I think that's so useful. So do you do that every day? I use breath work because I used to be such an anxious person.

Do you drink coffee? I don't. If I do, it's for fun because I love the taste of it versus on a daily basis. Did you give it up at some point? No, I never really. I always love teas. I never really got into drinking coffee. I just I you know what I always say, I feel like I had lots of stimulants in my past life that I feel like I'm done with them this life.

I always say that. I'm like, you know, I never I never drank alcohol growing up. Like a past life before. Yeah. I'm like, you know what? I must have done so much of it that this life, my body's like, we're done. This must be my life. Yeah, I'm like, you know what? I must be done with it. So you just know, no interest? Yeah, I just have never really wanted to.

I love a good matcha latte sometimes. Everything is more for flavor then, because I feel like my body needs it. Do you drink alcohol? I don't. I never actually did. I always thought if I wanted to, I would. And then I had like alcoholism in parts of my family. I saw that. It wasn't great.

I had friends who drank a lot at university and I remember going there and my friends would just be drunk off their faces, out of control. And I was like, I don't want to be that either. And then it kind of, I kept going and I just decided I just never wanted to. And so I just didn't. That's amazing. And I felt like I had a lot of energy and I was like, imagine me drunk. I'm not sure that would work. You feel like you've always been quite a confident person? No, definitely not confident. My sister used to have to make calls for me pretending to be me because I was too scared to call the doctor to make an appointment. I swear she used to do that.

If I was walking into a room, I'd always want someone to walk in front of me. If I was too scared to call the doctor to make an appointment. I swear she used to do that. If I was walking into a room, I'd always want someone to walk in front of me. If I was going somewhere, I'd be too scared of ever feeling like I'm overdressed. I just had so much anxiety about being around people or in public or being seen by people. And I think it was because I really didn't know myself very well, to know what I even had to offer to people or the world,

that I felt, and I constantly gave my power to other people. Being the youngest person in the family, my family was so sweet and they always wanted to help me. But what it did is it kind of disabled me to help myself. So everything I was- Like you couldn't be the authority of your own life. Yeah, I was always saved. Like if I had something wrong, my family would save me.

If I hadn't finished my dissertation, the last day, my sister would stay up all night to help me with it, which is so sweet. But it made me not believe that I could do anything myself. And so them helping me was out of love, but it was also my laziness of not wanting to see what I was actually capable of. And pushing yourself.

And pushing myself. And I got to a point where I realized I had no idea who I was because my view of myself was fully based on everybody else's perspective of me and never made any decisions for myself. So when I moved to New York, which... And how old were you when you moved to New York? I was... I would have been around 24. That's quite a brave thing to do to move to New York.

Well, I got married. I got married and then we moved. We both moved to New York. Oh, so you moved with Jay. He got a job there. And so I was working as a di both moved to New York. Oh, so you moved with Jay. He got a job there. And so I was working as a dietician in a hospital. I got a home, walking distance from my parents and my sister because that's what they all had. And then three weeks later, Jay was like, I got my dream job in New York.

And I was like, that's great. So when did you and Jay meet? We met in 2000. Well, originally we met in 2012. He was training to be a monk then, because yeah, my husband was a monk and then he transitioned out and now he shares a lot of that, you know, what he'd learned, he shares that now online.

But he was a monk, training to be a monk when I met him, I met him through my mum because she was helping at the temple that he was training at. And we came across each other. My mum introduced me, but he was training to be a monk, so it wasn't really anything I'd thought about. I then got introduced to a sister, and his sister was so sweet and she started sending me messages when there was...

I really wanted to get into spirituality. I felt like I really had something missing in my life and I didn't know what it was. And so whenever they were having community events or meditation events or whatever it was, she would invite me. And so I started going to them and then he was a monk for like three years or something. And then he came back and we started speaking once he came back into normality. And in terms of, because I think a lot of people, including myself, will relate to that feeling like you need to be saved or not feeling like you have the confidence to tackle things, or even if you have an idea to have the conviction to follow it through, because you're like, maybe I'm not right and maybe I need someone else to help me with it. How has that kind of evolved?

Because you said when you moved to New York, that's been something shifted. It was because I couldn't rely on anyone because I had no one that I knew around me. But what about Jay? Because obviously in partnership, if you have someone that you're with, I think that's something that people can fall into again of like relying on.

He wouldn't let me. He wouldn't let you. And that was what was so great that. So what does that look like? So he could have been the person who took that as something which he could kind of feed off because I would have just fallen into his arms and his lap and been like, just tell me what to do. I'll do whatever you think.

Whatever you think I should do, that's what I'll do. But he was like, no, you have the ability to make these decisions. He had seen that pattern in me. And so his way of loving and I'll be like, no, just tell me what to do in this situation. I want to know. He said, no, I know you know, like, you know what you want to tell me what you want to do and I'll say my opinion, but I'm not going to make the decision for you. And essentially whether it was buying plates and cutlery, which I felt like I

needed help with or someone, my mom telling me what to do or whether it was a bigger decisions of what I even wanted to do in my life and what path to now take after I couldn't work in New York because I didn't have a work visa. So I had to leave everything that I felt comfortable doing behind and yeah, he just more supported and guided and made me believe in myself slowly through that versus telling me what to do or making it easy for me, which really frustrated me sometimes.

I'm so grateful for it now because he could have really used that to his advantage and he really didn't. Yeah, because that was actually, I put out a thing saying that I was speaking with you and someone from the community said, like, how does she manage her independence and saying true to her own path whilst being with Jay, who's obviously like a huge public figure. And then those two things can become quite intertwined. His whole thing has been, I just want you to be happy doing what you do. And I want to support what you do. It's not about you doing what makes me happy, because we're only going to be happy if you're happy doing what you're doing

and I'm happy doing what I'm doing. And we can come together as happy people, or I can tell you to do everything that you don't want to do. And you'll resent me. Yeah, exactly. And so his whole goal has always been to try and help me. I've found it really difficult to figure out what I even want in life because this path was unexpected.

It was me kind of going on the path that he went on and I jumped on it for a while because I didn't know what else I wanted to do. And so it felt easier at the time jumping on his path and going everywhere with him. Yeah, because it was like clearly going in like a trajectory. He knew he had a trajectory. I didn't. So I was like, let me just jump on that and I'll go where he's going. I don't really have anything I want to do in my life. So why not? And then I realized that when you do that, you run out of fuel because

it's not your path. You don't have that energy. You don't have that motivation that's pushing you. You don't have that intention, the deep rooted intention that he has behind everything he does. I didn't have that. And so I could fake it and I could pretend, but I realized I was so unhappy doing that. And so I had to, I spent a lot of time alone there because he was working. And so during the day, I honestly, the first few months was just wandering around New York crying. And to be honest, no one really noticed because New York's a crazy place. You can walk around. Exactly. And so I just had to spend, I started just trying to learn about myself. Like I

had to start dating myself and figuring out what is it that I like? Do I like this because other people have told me that I like it? Or do I actually like it for myself? And that's where I started studying Ayurveda because I had so much time. I couldn't work. And I came across this teacher who was teaching Ayurveda there. Her name's Divya and she has this incredible Ayurvedic restaurant in New York. And she was teaching courses.

And I was like, can I just follow you around? I have nothing to do. Please, can I just follow you around? I'll be your intern. I'll go buy stuff for your workshops. I'll do whatever. Just can I follow you about? So I did that and I felt in love.

It felt like a feeling of a place being home. I felt like when I was learning Ayurveda, it felt like home for my health. And I felt finally like I wasn't Ayurveda, it felt like home for my health. And I felt finally like, I wasn't just understanding myself as a personality, I was starting to understand my body and how it worked. And I think that's a big part of loving yourself, right? Like I had no love left for myself because I felt so insecure and I realized, you know-

Did you feel more insecure as Jay's career was kind of taking off? More so because it was more of a reflection of how little I knew about what I wanted to do. Not because he was having success because I didn't even think I wanted, I didn't want that in my life. Like that wasn't something I was looking for. You know, I never looked on TV or people who were in the public eye and thought, I want

to do that. That was never something I wanted. But it's more the alignment with his passion and purpose. It was that. And so I kept mixing up because I then saw I became friends with these yoga teachers. And I was like, I wanted they look so happy being yoga teachers. Maybe I should be a yoga teacher. So I did my yoga teacher training.

And as much as I learned from it, what I realized was I kept seeing people feeling joy in what they did, because that's what they had a deep root of connection to it. I didn't want to do what they were doing. I wanted the joy, the feeling. And so... The joy. Exactly, the joy. And so I had to start noticing, I had to start figuring out what that was for me.

And that meant trying different things out. It meant doing things and hating it. It meant doing things and loving it. It meant paying attention to myself. And I think I disconnected not only from my voice, but from my body and what it needed, whether it was image of how I thought I should look and what that means, I should be eating for it based on what someone told me. And instead, I had to start loving my body by saying, I'm listening to you.

I'm going to listen to you and what you're saying. And I'm going to make your whisper the louder voice rather than everybody else around me. Because it's like a partner. If I kept saying to you or a friendship, if I was like, stop talking, I don't wanna hear you. Every time you spoke, I don't wanna hear you, stop talking.

I'm tired of hearing about you and what you have to say. That's basically what we do to our body and our mind and ourself. And so why would it keep telling me, why would it keep trying to communicate with me and speaking to me, unless I sit down and I say, I'm here to listen. And I want to understand you and I want to learn about you. And I want to have a deeper connection with you. And I think doing that, you know, defining that and redefining that every

single day helped me create a better relationship with myself to a point where now I feel like I see my body and myself as a vessel of like service to other people. Therefore, I have to look after myself because for me to be able to do what I wanna do and if I want to help other people and fully do it with unlimited capacity, that means I have to pour into myself unlimitedly also.

And what does that mean? It means like self care, you know, we self care, tend selfish for a little bit. I felt like it was all about me and I need time for me and everything is about me. And I need to set boundaries for myself. But actually if you turn that around and say, by me doing this, it actually allows me to be a better partner, a better friend, a better human to the world. Then actually self care turns into a service to other people. And that's how I see looking after my body. Why am I working out in the morning? Yes, I want to look a certain way and I want to feel a certain way. But I also

know that looking after my body allows me to keep going and doing what I'm doing. That attunement though, to your own, your body's sort of internal navigating system is such an important thing. And there's so many things that you just touched on there that I think are deeply relatable to so many people. For one that, you know, that cycle we can get in when we're seeking the thing that brings us joy. I feel like at the moment people will look online and it's quite easy because everything's so visual and we'll see representations of like, oh, that looks good. Maybe I'll follow that or like, I'm going to copy what that person's doing.

Because like you say, we see them getting joy out of it. And we mistake it like, well, if I just dress the same way, you know, do the same makeup, film the same style, I'll be just as happy. And I feel like people are doing that a lot at the moment and then being like, this isn't it, or they're chasing success in a way that they see. Cause we have a very sort of one idea of what success is, right? And I've actually noticed with a lot of people that I've interviewed recently who are kind of at the top of their game. And I can just feel, I'm like, but they're actually struggling because to manage all

of that success and then also still be in tune with your body's wisdom. And when your body's actually going, I don't want to do that other interview or I don't want to go on that tour or I don't want to do that thing. And that sort of dichotomy between making those decisions. So how have you, how do you manage that as your career grows and evolves? I would say I just want to touch on what you were saying about when we end up, you know, I think we end up seeking pleasure in, we misdirect where we want to get pleasure from. I mean, my pleasure is like the deeper joy in our life

because of what we keep being sold. And by sold, I mean what the world keeps telling us we will find pleasure from. Because no one wants to tell you that the things that you can get pleasure from and joy from are free. And are- Because no one can make money off it. And are something that you can do for yourself.

And it's something that you have the ability to influence for yourself and you don't have to go to a shop or a person or a professional to do it most of the time. And so I think we are very misled, but also we misdirect our enjoyment to temporary things that satisfy us in the moment, but don't give us long term, deep, meaningful joy. And I think I've learned how to navigate this. Well, you know, I on a regular basis, and Jay will laugh if he hears this, but every month I'm like,

should I just shut down my Instagram? Because sometimes I feel like it's too much. And do I want to be seen? And making that choice of being seen is is you can't choose to be seen. And I've said this so much because people ask me about this a lot, like, how do you manage with this, this and this when people say this or do this? And I said, if you choose to be seen, I cannot decide how people see me. That's not in my control.

So I am choosing to be seen every single day through what I do. I cannot choose with what perspective someone sees me. And once I started to understand that, I realized everything is a choice. If I don't want to be seen in this way, I cannot be seen. I can shut down my Instagram. I can shut down what I'm doing. And by the way, people forget about me in a week. Like, let's be honest, no, it's going to be something that... But is the desire to shut it down because of you don't like the way people speak to you on it? Or what is that? I think it's more, maybe it's a self pressure, but also the pressure that you feel from...

It's that feeling of what people perceive you as and then the perfection that comes with it. And then you feel like you're trying to keep up with this thing that you're not even enjoying. You're like, who you're trying to keep up with this thing that you're not even enjoying. You're like, who am I trying to please? Or that you're enjoying, but like that you also want to be able to make mistakes in. Yeah. And there's not much space for that.

Yeah, I feel like there is not much space. The space has gotten smaller and smaller. And so I think that scares me a little bit, to be honest. But at the same time, I love the ability to have a community where you can also impact them so beautifully. And so I love that. It's a double-edged sword. It is. And I always think I never see myself, and I mean this deeply, I do not see myself as an expert in anything. What I do see myself as, which is what pushed me to start sharing online, which is

what pushed me to write a book, is a bridge between the teachers that I've had and what people are then capable of doing for themselves. And so I have had so many great teachers in my life. And I think we all do from whether they're teachers that taught us great things or teachers that taught us lessons, whether it's your mom, your partner, your people who educated you, I have had so many great teachers in my life. And I see myself as a grateful student,

and the way that I feel I can do that is by sharing. And I think that's what we all are doing in our life. I'll share something with you that you might love hearing, and then you'll pass it on to your friend. It's not that it has to be to a degree where you're sharing it online to everybody. But if we all see ourselves as bridges between the people that have taught us

and the people that we are teaching, we all have this, we're all in like this beautiful symbiotic relationship where we're all just sharing and caring for each other. And it's also, it's making what you do an act of service. Exactly. And kind of taking the ego out of it a little bit. Exactly.

Because I remember my teacher had said this to me when I was thinking about starting to share and I was not sure whether I should. And he says this one line, which is knowledge is useless unless it's shared. Because actually when you end up building up knowledge- I say the creativity as well, just maybe. Yes. If you have like a, because for me, I often I'll do creative things and then I won't share them. But what's the point in that?

And sometimes it is sharing it with yourself as well, where you just know that you're capable of doing it. And that's what the book was for me. I actually finished something. I find it so hard to finish things. Me too. And I actually completed something. So then when it went out in the world, I was like, whether it goes out or not, I completed this. It's in my hand. And so I think that when you end up building up knowledge inside of you,

when you end up building up all these skills and you don't share them with people, you have this false identity of it being you and that it's all yours. And I learned this and this is my information and this is my skill and you get ego around it. And that's how ego builds when you don't, when you choose to hold everything for yourself and you choose not to share it with other people. And I always believe that like the brain, our body, we are a place for things to flow through, not to hold. Like whether it's emotions, whether it is anger, resentment, whether it's skills, whether it's whatever we have,

I always try to envision my body as being something that I allow things to flow through me, not sit in me. Because as soon as things sit in you, they become stagnant. Same with food. You leave food in your stomach for too long, it starts to rot and it creates gas and bloating. You leave thoughts in your mind for too long. they become stagnant and stale and create anxiety in your body and in your mind. And so, yeah, even if it's just not expressing the way you feel about something.

Exactly. And it's got a heaviness to it. It really does. Heaviness and yeah, and it's the same with thoughts, with food, with anything. There's a heaviness that comes with that if you leave it in your body for longer than it needs to be there. With the sort of sharing on social media, because I often think that on one hand, there is so much incredible, wonderful knowledge out there. And I think we're all developing collectively in this beautiful way because of it, because it's all available on these platforms and online.

But then on the other hand, I think there's also so much rubbish being circulated. That's incredibly problematic. What do you think about that? And that, cause you know, you said knowledge needs to be shared, but then sometimes I think people are sharing stuff. I'm like, I know it's a bit unregulated. I think so. I've learned how to curate and we can all do this. You can curate your feed to be what you want it to be. So, okay, tell me about that. So yeah, I'm like being targeted. Sometimes you say things a bit too loudly and your phone hears it right. I don't think it knows what I'm thinking at this point.

I know. So I'll say something, I'm like, I didn't even say that out loud. I just thought it. Thought it? I'm not joking. Gosh, the phone's going too smart now. No, and obviously you'll get the random ad here and there. But what I mean by that is I noticed myself when I was constantly tuning in, when my feed

was filled with gossip about other people, for example, or things which just felt negative and hateful, and whatever it was, when I was choosing to look at that, that's what my mind was filled with, and that's what I was giving out. And so what I realized is I spend a lot of time on Instagram. I do, it's part of my work, it's part of me connecting with people. And so how can I curate a for you page

that makes me happy when I'm scrolling through it? connecting with people. And so how can I curate a for you page that makes me happy when I'm scrolling through it? And so I start, and the algorithm does what you want it to do. So I will look at lots of videos of animals smiling at a camera or like doing really funny things, or I will choose educational things or food things. And so when you look at, the more you look at those things,

the less you get of the other bits. And then your feed ends up being curated in a way that when you go on social media, and again, it's who you follow. Like you have your for you page, and then you have the people you're following. You can curate that too. I mute so many people that I don't want to see the stuff of because I'm allowing that into my space.

So we see our home as a sacred space. Why do I not see my mind and my body as a sacred space too? And so that means curating what I'm allowing around me into my mind, what I'm viewing and watching, because all of that makes such a difference. Subtly it makes a difference. If I see a lot of anger and a lot of pain and a lot of, um, hatred and a lot of gossip, I'm going to- And physically how that impacts you as well.

Yeah, in Ayurveda it says that, um, a key cause of disease are emotions trapped and negative energy trapped in the body. That's where disease starts in the body. And so imagine you're absorbing all of that and then it sits in your body. And that's where so much pain and discomfort and tension comes in the body because of what we're actually consuming through our eyes. Back to the book, because I feel like it's very much, you seem like an

incredibly joyful person and you do emulate that online. Are you a very emotional person? Just kind of all emotional. I cry all the time. Yeah, me too. My boyfriend's like every weekend is like a roller coaster. Yes, me too. I cry all the time. My voice is like every weekend is like a rollercoaster. Yes, me too. I am like that.

I really do. A lot of my emotion is released through crying, whether I'm angry, sad, happy. I cry a lot and I feel like it helps me to get over things faster. It helps me to just release all the crap out of my body that I don't need. But I also am all over the place sometimes. And so I think, you know, you always get the best of people online. And I definitely, and I don't think that's a bad thing. You know, when people are like, you only see the glamour online.

And I think... Well, you see one aspect of someone. Yeah. But I also, every time I hear that, when people are like, you seem too happy all the time. And I'm like, no, I talk about being sad all the time. But at the same time, what I do think is it's my responsibility when I have however many people that are watching what I do. I want to share positivity to them.

I don't want them to feel my pain and my sadness. And so I may be sad two minutes before I come online, but I will give you whatever ounce of joy I have left because I have a responsibility as someone who has chosen to build a community to not download my pain and my heartache onto somebody else. So if I'm sad that someone in my family is unwell or if I'm sad that I've just had an argument with someone, do I need to share that with two million people? Do I need them to feel my pain with me when they've got enough pain happening in their own lives? And so I'm grateful that I have it in me. Like, if I get upset, I'll call my mum, I'll talk it through with her, I'll speak to Jay, we'll talk

it through with him. And I've learned how to manage how I'm feeling through myself and my close-knit family. To then extend it out to people who did not come online to ask to receive my pain. I see that as being unfair to them. And so, yes, you see me being happy because I'm being mindful about what I'm sharing with you online. And so, whether that's perceived as, oh, you're only showing us the best parts of your life, I'm like, you can take it as that. But that's honestly not what it is and not what I'm sharing. Do people say that? Oh, yeah, they're like, you must get upset.

Are you not sad all the time or you're not unhappy? Why do you always seem so happy? People are so weird. I had someone actually come up to me the other day, she was like, I really like your content. It always like feels very joyful and like, and I was like, oh, that's good. I wish I felt like that all the time. Totally.

It's always, it's always, but you know what's sad? It's always the few, few that you read that are, that are not great that you end up kind of holding on to. Of course. But no, that's sad? It's always the few that you read that are not great that you end up kind of holding on to. Of course. But no, that's human nature. Yeah, exactly. But no, I really appreciate being able to, yeah, spread joy in some way,

making people happy in some way. Like what a beautiful thing to be able to do. And in terms of your relationship with kind of, you know, you spoke a bit ago about becoming more confident in yourself. How has that relationship impacted your sort of sense of self and confidence? And then also, I'm curious from a more personal perspective, like being with someone and allowing the sort of plethora of your emotions to kind of be on the show and someone holds space

for that. How is that dynamic? I'm learning how to actually share my emotions with other people. Yeah. I'm someone who tries to process a lot of it myself. And I'm learning how to, because I would always think if I share it with my mom, she's going to be upset. And if I share it with this person, I think I've always grown up trying to be the person that doesn't...

that is bringing happiness versus them. I always used to have this thing of if I tell someone I'm sad, that's going to make them sad and I don't want to tell them. And it's something I'm growing out of now because I realized that sadness is just the same as happiness. Sharing that with friends and family is part of your exchange of a relationship with someone. And so I have had to, I think it's also about educating your partner and your family or whoever you're close to about what you're like and what you need in your life when you're in those moments. Because for me, I need a lot of me time when I'm feeling a bit down. And then maybe two days later, I'll need a big hug and I'll have had time to process it. But I'm quiet when I'm going through something versus very loud.

Do you need to be alone to kind of process your emotions? Yeah, I do. I definitely go a bit more quiet and inward and try to process things myself before I then blurt them out to other people. How do you manage that living with someone else? Living with someone who also is so great at fixing things and trying to help. He doesn't really bring that, he brings that home with him in a way where he's there and supportive, like, I'm here if you need me. But he's not like, let me fix this and I'm going to make this better.

He's done, tried to do that in the past and he's learned that doesn't help. And so all I've said to him is if I say something, I don't want you to, I'll tell you when I want you to give me a solution. But sometimes I just want to tell you and, and blurt it out. And he's, I think it's been a learning curve. I think it always is. You can't just read someone's mind and know how they deal with things. You have to educate people around you. And I think that's a mistake we make sometimes.

My best friend didn't even understand that I was upset, but I feel like she should have. Or my partner didn't even understand that this is how I like doing things, or this is how I like my birthday being celebrated, whatever. I had this conversation the other day. But it's also so unique to you to have the confidence and to be able to say like, this is, to even know that's what you need.

I know, and I think that's part of it, right? It's how do I learn myself so I can help other people learn me? And that's the point. It's like, if I, and that's, that's where I struggled in the past. Yeah. Jay would be like, what do you need from me? And I'm like, I don't know what I need from you. I don't know what I need from myself.

I don't know what I, I don't know what I need. So how can I tell you what I need you to do for me? And so that's where the disconnect kept happening with people around me, where I kept thinking it was them and I realized it's me. It's all me. Yeah, is it me? Am I the problem? It was me and it was me not knowing. So how can I ask for help when I don't know what help I need?

And what is the practice for that? Oh, OK, I'll tell you things that helped me for that. One thing was journaling. And I don't mean dear diary style. I mean, at the end of the day, writing down, number one, all the things that you... So I used to see where the disconnect was. So all the conversations I had where I felt I wasn't saying the things

that I was actually feeling and why I did that. So essentially going through your day and saying, these are the things that I did. These are the things that I enjoyed, didn't enjoy. These are the conversations and the people in my life that I felt energized me, depleted me. These are the foods that I feel like I was eating that did, that went well for my body, but foods that didn't. And essentially it's the inventory thing. You start taking note of what are the things that bring me joy. And we can simplify to that.

What do I feel brought me joy and what do I feel depleted me and didn't actually support the lifestyle I want to live? And then you start to see the patterns. And then you start to see the patterns and then you start. It's learning just so think about it as learning about your partner. Do that with yourself. So what do I enjoy doing? So when someone asks you, what do you enjoy doing in your spare time? And if you don't know, start trying things out

and learn what you enjoy doing in your spare time. Go out and read at a coffee shop. If you don't like being alone, notice I actually don't enjoy this feeling of being alone. Go out and do sports with friends. If you don't like being seen in public wearing workout clothes or sweating, maybe that's not what you want to be doing. But then maybe you'll go to the, you know, you'll go to the cinema and notice you like going out with your friends to watch something. What I mean is experiment. Trial and error. Trial and error, just like you would with taking a, you know,

I remember when Jay took me out on my first day and he did the most. Oh, my gosh, he was suited and booted. He took me out to like the theater, this fancy restaurant. It was so not me. Like beyond not me. I was like, you could have just taken me, this sounds the theater, this fancy restaurant. It was so not me. Like beyond not me. I was like, you could have just taken me, this sounds really lame, but to a Tesco. And we would have walked around the aisles and I would have been really happy with that because I just love going around and looking at different foods.

And but, but we had to go through that for him to realize that how he had perceived me being like a well-rounded, very dainty lady is not what I'm like at all. I do not need to be wined and dined. But did you know that? I didn't know that until I in my mind, of course, this is like the ideal romantic date. And I realized, no, I love doing activities. So now we just do activities together.

I love going out for walks. I love going to do things where we can do something together versus sitting and eating or sitting and watching a movie. I prefer being active. So I've had to learn that about myself and he's had to learn that about me and now we can actually do that. But yeah, it's hard. It's hard to for anyone to know what you want if you don't know it for yourself. And it's a constant learning process. Yeah, because I actually, because I've just, I told you at the beginning, I've just moved in with my boyfriend and I'm managing like what's happening in myself of kind of someone that really needs a lot of alone time and

trying to like negotiate it with myself. But I remember just as I was like, you know, figuring out when I was going to move in and say hi, I called him like crying. I was like, I feel like I'm suffocating. He's like, but why? I was like, I don't know. But it was just something that I was kind of putting on myself as this pressure to, I guess, not being really honest with knowing what I need.

Yeah, it's also knowing where things root from, right? Like I remember I was triggered in a lot of things that Jay would ask of me. So for example, he'd be like, give me your passport, I'll look after it. Or whenever we're traveling, he'd try and take my things. I was like, I don't need looking after, I can look after myself, I've got my passport. I'm not gonna, and I realized I was taking out on him something that I felt from a young age where people thought I couldn't look after myself and I'm not responsible.

So bless, he was actually just trying to be a nice person and just look after me. Yes, I do. Then I'm like, do I have my passport? Yeah, exactly. But the trigger for me wasn't him. It was everything else that I'd been through. So a lot of the time you end up taking out things that trigger you

on someone who doesn't deserve that. But I had to learn that about myself. Where is it rooting from? Why am I reacting in such an absurd way to someone wanting to look after me? Where does it impact me? Like, how do I translate it in my mind? Because everything comes through different filters based on what we've been through in our life.

100%. And what are the practices like at home in LA when you've been traveling a lot or doing a lot of work, promotion, whatever it might be, for you to just come back to yourself outside of your partnership, outside of who you are and work, outside of social media? I have to become a hermit. I have to. a hermit.

I have to. Whenever I go back to LA or whenever I've been in situations where I've had lots of people around me, I need to sit for a full day. I will read. I find one of the best ways to nourish myself is through learning. And whether it's learning, you know, whether it's reading a book about food or reading a book about, I'm reading a book called The Courage to Be Disliked right now. Great book.

Oh, I need that in my life. It's a good book. And so just reading, sitting in one space and just reading and also not allowing time to be a thing because I think we all live on such a schedule. What helps me is having one day where I don't even have to look at the clock. I'm going to listen to when my body gets hungry, I'll eat. Not based on it's 12 o'clock, it's six o'clock. When I feel like reading, I'll read. When I feel like napping, I'll nap. Like having a full 24 hours, and I know as people say,

I've got kids, I can't do that. I totally understand. This is not something I'm sure, maybe you could take a day off and go somewhere, but having a full day where time is not an importance, you realize how amazing that feels and how restful it feels to your body. Oh, I love that. How often do you do that? Usually whenever I travel back into LA.

So I've had a big spot where I've been away. I've been away for almost a month or more. And I'll go back and I'll just try and land on like a weekend. So I'll get a full Sunday to just... And do you say to people around you, this is what I'm doing? Yeah, I'm saying I'm not coming out. I'm not speaking to anyone today. This is just a no. I'll get a full Sunday to just... And do you say to people around you, this is what I'm doing? Yeah, I'm saying I'm not coming out. I'm not speaking to anyone today.

This is just a no. I'll maybe speak, I'll speak to my mom because that's a non-negotiable, otherwise she'll send out like a missing party. She did that this morning. I went out yesterday and I was out shopping till late and my phone had died. And the last thing I said to her was,

I'm just jumping in a cab and my phone died. Next thing I know, the security man in my building is knocking on my door in the morning saying, your mom has been calling. She's worried about you. Where have you been? So I was like that. She sent out a search party. I was like, mom, I was sleeping. So anyway, except for my mom, I will just kind of cut everybody off and just have a little bit of quiet.

I think that's what we need is just quiet and simplicity. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great note to end on. Roddy, thank you so much for joining me. I absolutely love this. Me too. I look forward to spending more time together. Yeah, me too. So thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Saturn Returns.

If you want to get Roddy's book, you can find it wherever you get your books. On Amazon is usually the best place and it is called Joyfull. And thank you so much for listening to this conversation. I hope you found it useful. And as always remember you are not alone. Goodbye.