Saturn Returns with Caggie - Everyday Magic with Poppy Jamie: Bringing intuition, ritual and esoteric wisdom into your daily life in a grounded, practical way

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

In this episode, Caggie is joined by Poppy Jamie, author of The Book of Magical Living, for a conversation on intuition, synchronicity and finding meaning in the unknown. Drawing on her work in mental health and study of psychosynthesis, Poppy explores why we are more than our past experiences and what happens when we reconnect with the parts of ourselves that can’t always be rationally explained. Together, they discuss ego desire versus soul desire, our reliance on technology for answers, and the signs that can guide us back to our inner knowing. Poppy also shares personal experiences of grief, spirituality and divine timing, offering a hopeful perspective on trusting life’s messier chapters and finding meaning when things don’t go to plan. Topics covered in the episode: 🪐 Synchronicities, signs and the moments that feel like more than chance 🪐 The superconscious and collective consciousness 🪐 Intuition and whether technology is disconnecting us from it 🪐 Finding meaning in grief and life’s unexpected moments 🪐 The difference between ego desire and soul desire 🪐 Letting go of borrowed ambitions and reconnecting with what we truly want This conversation is a reminder to slow down, question what we think we know and become more receptive to the signs and synchronicities around us. — A special thank you to Pandora for supporting this season. Inspired by the milestones, experiences and personal stories that shape us, the latest Pandora Talisman collection celebrates who you are and the journey you’re on. Discover the Talisman that speaks to you in store or ⁠online⁠. If this episode resonated, don’t forget to follow, share, and leave a review. Your feedback helps us reach more people seeking clarity, growth, and self-understanding. Discover more from Saturn Returns: 🪐⁠⁠ Instagram⁠⁠,⁠⁠ YouTube⁠⁠ and⁠⁠ TikTok⁠⁠ 🪐 Order the Saturn Returns book:⁠⁠ Click here⁠⁠ 🪐 Join our community newsletter:⁠⁠ Sign up here⁠⁠ 🪐 Explore all things Saturn Returns:⁠⁠ Visit our website⁠⁠ 🪐Follow Caggie on Instagram:⁠⁠ @caggiesworld⁠

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kaggy Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. This season is sponsored by Pandora, who have launched a new chapter of the Pandora Talisman Collection, inspired by the milestones, experiences and personal stories that shape us. Each piece is designed to celebrate who you are and the journey you're on. To mark the occasion, I'll be choosing. a talisman at the start of each episode that reflects the guest and theme of our conversation. And in today's episode, I am joined by Poppy Jamie, author of the Book of Magical Living,

for an expansive conversation about intuition, synchronicity, and finding meaning in the unknown. Drawing on her years working in mental health and her study of psychosynthesis, Poppy explores why we are so much more than the experiences of our past and what can happen when we reconnect with the parts of ourselves that we can't always rationally explain. Together we discuss the difference between ego desire and soul desire, our growing dependence on technology for answers, and the signs and synchronicities that can guide us back towards our own inner knowing. Poppy also shares personal reflections on grief, spirituality and divine timing, offering a hopeful perspective on trusting life's uncertain chapters. For me, this conversation feels deeply connected

to the eye talisman, which symbolises know thyself. The eye serves as a reminder to trust your instincts, stay true to yourself, embrace authenticity and recognize that self-discovery is a lifelong journey. It feels especially fitting for this conversation with Poppy, where so much of our discussion centres on looking inward and trusting the wisdom that already exists within us. So, if you're stepping into a new chapter, celebrating a milestone, or navigating a period of change, what would your talisman be? To discover the Pandora talisman that best reflects you, visit Pandora in store or online.

I hope you enjoy this conversation. Poppy, welcome back to Saturn Returns. Thank you so much for having me. It is such a delight to be here. I am super excited about your book. I think it's like everything that I kind of wish I had during my Saturn return, but also because I'm going through,

I guess, like a transition myself, the moment. So for the audience that isn't familiar with the book and your work, would you be able to do a little bit of an introduction about who you are in the work that you do? And what led you to write this specific book? Yes. So for the last, I would say, gosh, 14 years, I've been deep in the world of mental health. And so I built one of the first gamified mental health cognitive behavioral therapy platforms back in 2016. We grew that very focused on bringing psychoeducation to young people. We teamed up with a huge education platform who later acquired the company, then wrote a book on mental health. And it was just, it was very, you know,

early on in those days when we were suddenly as a culture connecting the mind with the body, not seeing them as separate. And over the last few years, I've just begun to feel that all of that overt science that we were, that I did find really interesting and do find really interesting and went on to study kind of cognitive science, went and did a postgraduate in psychosynthesis though. And I began to see how lacking my research up until then had been because, yes, it's very helpful to understand what the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex and the brain does and what happens when you're in a stress for situation and cortisol levels, stuff like that, which everyone I'm sure is very familiar with.

But when you are in a life crisis or when you are at a crossroads or when you are at the precipice of life and death, all of those things melt away and it doesn't really matter what the brain is doing because actually as humans, we need something more than just knowing about the mechanical processes of what makes us human. But actually, we need to understand why. Why is this happening? Why do I feel this way?

What is going on? And how on earth do I find the next step forward? And so, as I said, I went to go study psychosynthesis. What is psychosynthesis? Well, I did a postgraduate in it, and it's basically the psychology of the soul. And it was founded by a man called Roberto Asajoli, and he was a student of, well, he was a student of Freud. And he realized that this Freudian approach to psychology was very limited. Freud was obsessed with obviously the subconscious, what was your childhood like? Let's go back. Let's rehash

everything that you've been through to understand who you are today. And Roberta Asajoli said, that's just half of the story. Yes, the subconscious is important to build that awareness. But what's just as important is the super conscious, the part of the psyche that holds your hopes, wishes and dreams. And this captivated me so much because actually, if we were all just a product of our past, then our lives wouldn't change. But everyone's life has the potential to change any moment. And we have countless examples of people who came and experienced one through their childhood and went on to change the world, went on to invent something that changed humanity, went on to have a completely different life to what their parents had given

them. And so actually, the superconscious is just as important, potentially if not more important, in actually influencing behaviour change the way we make decisions. But our connection to our hopes, wishes and dreams is one that is quite fragile because of how the brain works and because of how kind of our society and how fundamentally humans are fearful because we want to keep safe, the subconscious can overpower us and we can not make decisions based on data from the past. And so actually this idea of strengthening the superbishop, conscious and also to the collective conscious as well, this idea that we all share in this

pool of wisdom and ideas. You know, there's a kind of philosophical question which is, is an idea yours or did you just receive it from this kind of collective field of information? And I rather liked that because it's the idea that we all have antennas. Totally. And we're all radio stations. And we can just tune in. And I also like that because if you do have. have a good idea. There's some, there's humility, humility in the idea that is the idea really

yours or are you in a brief moment channeling something that needed to come through into this world? You're a sort of conduit for it. Yes. Elizabeth Gilbert has spoken about this in big magic, this idea that we can connect with this collective consciousness and that an idea will choose us to come to life. And also, because you wrote about this in the book that an idea can occur with two different people at opposite sides of the world simultaneously or at the same time. And it's like, well, how did that happen? Absolutely. Charles Darwin with the theory of evolution, I think these are great examples from the past when media didn't exist. The theory of evolution was actually developed by two people different sides of the world pretty much at the same time. Breakthroughs and science often

will happen in two different countries without the labs having ever communicated. There's this thing called twin films. Suddenly, we've never seen a film about, I don't know, Queen Elizabeth the First and actually now we have two launching within weeks of each other. And obviously, no movie studio would be making a decision to put that much budget behind something that would be a direct competitor. So it's this idea that that idea needed to come through and it was two humans that had channeled it. Why do you think it's happening at certain times? Have you thought about that at all? I think that, and I think this kind of goes back to, your first question, where my attention moved from the pure mechanical side of psychology to this

more mystical side, because I think that is what we've almost kind of lost touch with in a way, this unbelievable, mysterious, unknown, full of questions that we can only really theorize about. None of us really know why certain ideas come at a certain time, but they do. And it's trusting that they have come for a reason. The point of the book really is to, rather than just experiencing, rather than just experiencing your life passively, actually going a layer deeper to think,

if nothing happens by a coincidence, if everything is a coordinated instance, why is it that I should be going through this challenge now? Because I could have gone through this challenge in two years from now, or I could have gone through this breakup three years ago, but why is it now? why is my soul chosen this now?

And do you deeply believe that everything is orchestrated through the sort of web of fate and that synchronicities and guides come into your life and that there is a sort of divine order to things and nothing is by chance? I absolutely believe that. And I think it's because when I was 19, I met a Kabbalistic astrologer who shared with me that quote, Poppy, nothing is a coincidence. everything is a coordinated instance. And I think knowing that has meant that all the challenges have gone through have felt not in vain. They've felt that even though I would have wanted to

give them back at any moment, they almost told, that quote told me, just carry on the journey, carry on the story. It's like being in the middle of a novel. Exactly. And going, no, just come on, get to the end of the chapter and you'll find out what happens. I was actually just about to say because I feel like I'm kind of like mid-story at the moment myself. And I can recognize the similarities that I've had in the past where I've also been at that time, which is the hardest point because you don't know what's around the bend and you have this anxiety because as human beings, like we desperately want to control. We want to know the outcome.

We want to know if I do this and this, then this will happen and have some sort of certainty. but actually like the magic is in kind of making peace with the unknown and accepting that everything that's happening whilst it might seem difficult and challenging it's happening to sort of carve out your excellence and who you're supposed to be in this world. Yes and I stumbled upon NASA's research who stated that human beings have only ever tracked 5% of the universe, 95% percent. remains completely unknown to humans. And so I think it's funny because as humans,

and with this almost religion of science that came to be in the last maybe 200 years, where we kind of almost worshipped this altar of science, it's so unbelievably limited. Human beings don't even know how a human cell truly works. So if we don't understand how a cell truly works, we are living so much more in the mystery of life than we are in the,

in the known. And I think that is something to be celebrate, rather than it evoke our fear to think, oh, gosh, we don't know how that happens or why that happens, or we don't know what happens when people die or why tragedies happen to certain people and not others. But actually, if we lean into the unknown, I think it actually has a tremendous amounts of benefits to our life. And that was the point of the book, is to give people the confidence to lean into the unknown, lean into the synchronicities and to find these hidden patterns, to find this hidden order in the disorder. You know, when you look at birds fly, they fly with a hidden order. You know, they are, they're being able to move around the world through magnetic, bumblebees move through the world

based on magnetic lines. We can't see these magnetic lines. And so the invisible world has far more influence than the visible world? Because on one hand, I feel like there is definitely, we're bridging the gap between science and the mystical and the magical. And I think that those worlds are sort of merging, which is fantastic. And then if you look at like the telepathy tapes, I don't know if you listen to that. That was so mind-blowing because it really did make us understand that there's so little that we know. And these things that we've kind of concluded are just quite often wrong. And I think on that side, like, it's very exciting.

There's a very exciting moment. And also because we have access to a lot more, and we can communicate a lot quicker. But then how do you feel about the sort of development of social media, AI, in the sense of intuition, in the sense of being able to tap into the synchronicities, being aware of your own life and where you are, being guided and then the consequences perhaps of like numbing out because I feel like I personally

and a lot of us I'm sure would agree that's listening will use social media to kind of I don't realize I'm doing it but if I'm like with an uncomfortable feeling it's like a dopamine hit you know and like also my favorite thing to do is like look at houses on like Zupro and stuff it's like yeah but I'm one not only for my own creativity but also for missing the signs. Do you think that they're, and also for, you know, using AI when you have a question about something, when you need guidance. Like it's so easy just to default to that now. And it's happened like that. Is there a consequence for us really turning back towards ourselves and our intuition with this like rapid movement in the tech world? Yes. I mean, this is one thing

I write about in the book in the beginning of intuition saying if anyone has a, sleep device. And I had one for a few years. And I suddenly realized it was eroding my intuition. Because I woke up and instead of asking myself, how did you sleep? I would look at my sleep device and it would say, oh, 30% not recovered. And I'd be freaking out going, I can't make any decisions today. If I'm not recovered, then why should I even leave the house? Today's going to be a bad day. And then you're already programmed to have a bad day. Law of expectation. Yeah.

And so I think why are we eroding, why are we obsessed with data when data actually can tell us very little? Some things, some people like data because they think it can help with their behavior change. But I question the real value of all this data that we're tracking on ourselves. It's exhausting as well. It's exhausting. And actually, as we know, sometimes you can have very little sleep, but actually have the best day ever. Because your brain is so slow that you actually end up being more present. And I think it's interesting, I interviewed an amazing kind of Irish witch herbalist

who told me that all of her friends said that when they didn't get electricity to something like the early 70s, which was very late because they really missed. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like the Irish do have this sort of mystical madness about them. There's a charge there where I'm like, oh, wow, this feels, I don't know, know, like you're living in the old times in a way, and they're so fiery and electric. I couldn't agree more. I feel every Irish woman I meet, I assume, has an unbelievable,

deep, mystical bone within them because some of the most powerful witches I've met are all Irish. I'm kind of annoyed that I don't have it in my lineage. I'm actually really craving to go there this summer. And I've never had that before. I'm just like, I need to go to Ireland. I need to be in that land and energy. But anyway, you were saying so one of... And she said before electricity came in, everyone she knew had had an experienced, an incredible mystical experience. And she said, and it's interesting, as soon as electricity came, almost 90% of her friends stopped seeing things. God. And so I think that obviously technology has been amazing in many ways, but in other ways, it has numbed us out because you walk out the door to go on a morning walk. And are you going through

your messages or you're going through your emails or maybe you're looking on Instagram or maybe you're reading something on a news app. And actually we are not looking out for the universe to be able to communicate with us. And so the first chapter is about synchronicities. Synchronicities require us to open our eyes to be able to notice patterns, to be able to notice the bird that suddenly we've seen three days in a row that's trying to speak with us or the number that keeps popping up, which is trying to give you a clue or some guidance or something. And yet... And if you're on...

Yeah. You're not going to miss it. We're going to miss it. And I think that's... This idea of building up your communication, your language with the universe is such a powerful skill. And my mother is amazing at it because she will actually change the signs. So she'll say she believes that her mother who passed away when she was quite young. talks to her through white feathers. And so we'll be walking through a torrential rain, muddy field

on a dog walk, and there'll be some pristine white feather just standing sitting there in front of her. In the moment, where we've had a tense conversation about something someone's worried about, and she'll say, no, it's going to be fine. And so one day she thought, okay, I'm going to change the communication to a pansy. And she thought it's really, you know, that's going to be difficult for universe because I don't see many pansies. You know, white feathers are probably more available. And she's two weeks later, she's in the garden and there's a random pansy growing in the lawn. And so she called me up to say, oh my gosh, I was doing this experiment and I know I sound ridiculous, but, and then she obviously went to tell me the story. And I think there is, there's, sometimes

obviously signs don't come when we call for them. We have to wait. You know, time is such an illusion. but it is a real incentive for us to to manage our technology habits better so we can start having these conversations with a wider intelligence. It's also such a beautiful way of living. Yeah. Like your mom having that is like so lovely. And also to kind of grow up with that way of thinking. When I was reading the book, I was also thinking about the numerology part

because I, when I was in Dubai at the beginning, the year, I started seeing either 8-8 or 808. Wow. Everywhere. Wow. And I was like, okay, this is weird. And then I found myself in Lisbon, which was totally unexpected. But what's important to me ending up in Lisbon is because a lot of people had told me,

like, Lisbon is very you, you'll really connect with it. Everyone kind of imagined that I would live there, but I'd never been. But I had this kind of call to go there, but it also wasn't making me. sense with timing. I didn't really see when I would go there, why I would go there. And then circumstances happened. And it was like suddenly this opportunity presented itself. And I remember, I got on the flight on my own with my daughter. I was on the plane. In the airport, this man came up to me. He honestly, I didn't recognize him at all. He was the trainer of a boxing class that I had done like six years ago. And he came up and he was like, khaki. And I was like, yeah,

hi and he was so nice and he was like oh I live with my family in in Portugal and he's like I'm on this flight because he was like do you need some help because I was on my own with a baby he helped me on the flight which was really lovely and I'm such a big believer in like guides when you kind of are heading in the right direction or you need a nudge in a different direction and I remember when I got off got off the plane was going through like passport control and he waited for me to help me with my bags. And as I got to the bag thing, above it was 808. And I was like, oh my God. Wow. So I've been taking pictures of, because I keep seeing it everywhere. So I was looking up in your book. A08 is about like abundance and flown. I was like, oh, okay, that's good. That's good.

So like, do you see any particular number or does it kind of, are you always on the lookout for it? because I feel like our audience is definitely like, I see 1111, like would you be able to kind of riff through some of the numbers and what they signify just in case people like, oh, I keep saying this actually. Yeah, it does sound crazy, especially if you're in a corporate world. You're like, seeing 777 everywhere. What's this mean?

Yeah, it's interesting because, well, 1-1, a lot of ones is often about new beginnings. And this also kind of links to the tarot as well. So one is the fool. And so it's about, you know, you're going on a, journey. This is, this is limitless possibility. The full card. Number one is just unbridled optimism. And, and so it's a real nudge of keep going, keep going. Five can often be a lot around change. Things are changing, but, you know, change is something not to fear. It changes. It's great.

you're going through an absolutely necessary change. 888, obviously, it's abundance. My phone number has something like 5-8s. And I've only, when I started to learn about numerology, I really appreciate my phone number. But I do think it's really interesting, looking at kind of the numbers, your phone numbers, find you.

Number 13, I think, is my favourite number, because I feel that that one has been hidden from so many people for so many years. is. And considered unlucky. And considered unlucky. But actually in Italian, 13 is supposed to Fair Trudishi is the name in Italian for it, which is about, you know, being fortunate. It's lucky. And I, when I once spoke to Charlotte Tilbury and she said, I'll tell you a secret. And immediately, I was all ears. And we're sitting at this wedding and she said, 13 is the luckiest number. And I have built my entire career on it. And so she raised 1.3 million, I think, is her first raise. And she

signs important documents on the 13th. And then I think she sold part of her company for 1.3 billion, you know, X many years later. And she said, 1.3 13. Taylor Swift also very much engages in the number 13. And it is a number especially, I think, for women to reclaim. Why was it made to be an unlucky number? I mean, there's lots of different theories, one theory being that the people in power knew that 13 was a very lucky number for women in particular. And so, you know, it's the same thing with this idea of the witch. If you know that there are powerful women that can work with herbs that can be,

you know, witches were our earliest doctors, herbologists, pharmacologists, midwives, duels, and as a consequence, they were wise women that communities would turn to in times of need. But if you're trying to control people, why would you want wise women to take these very important roles? You would brand them dangerous. You would brand their wisdom, something that should be feared. And the same with her... And pit them up against each other. Put them up against each other. How do you destroy that power? You create fear around them. And same thing with 13, how to avoid people using such a problem. powerful number. Because you speak a lot about witches in the book. Because I feel like it's something

that we should have learned about at school, like the witch trials and everything. And it does echo on in all women, but there's definitely a reclamation of the word that's happening now. And I actually, I was looking in the mirror yesterday and I could see like some gray hairs like popping up and they're literally coming up really quickly. But I know that society has told me to like pluck them out, colour them. But I couldn't help. but feel this excitement in my stomach of like, I'm becoming a witch. Like this kind of initiation into this next stage of adulthood, of womanhood,

which for me actually just intuitively and instinctively feels exciting. But again, you can see how in society like women are told to stay in the sort of infantilised maiden-like behaviour and look rather than actually actually. knowing how powerful it is to evolve into the next stage of the wise woman. Yeah, I completely agree. You know, the idea of the witch and the crone is, to me, the greatest compliment that you could give anybody to say that, wow, you're a witch,

suggests that you're a woman who are so deeply connected to their intuition, have gone through many life initiations and a well of wisdom so connected to the things that matter, whether that be nature, you know, their own soul, someone who is unfazed by societal expectations. I think that was the most common denominator with the witches I met. They just walked life to the beat of their own drum. And I think when society is so oppressive, like it is now, especially with the level of media that we're being bombarded with, it is really easy to lose our way. It is easy to think, well, what does Poppy want?

because suddenly, without realizing it, I'm following someone else's desire, thinking it's mine, but it was never mine. And that's why I think witches and those women that we know are witches. You just have a tiny inkling about them because their energy feels so strong in many ways because they're so in their authentic integrity.

But with the ones that you've met, think it's quite a journey for them to get there? And what have you met of like different ages and stages or is there? And do they own the term witch or is this also like, you know, bringing in mystics and healers and? I don't think most of them own the term actually. I think it's a term. I just called them a witch because I don't know what else to describe someone so magical. I do know some that literally are call themselves witches, but it's that's still quite niche, but then there are definitely some that I would call witches that would claim it if you said it, but might not go by the term. And I also just feel like in popular culture, it's also becoming something that people are.

Like I saw a meme the other day. It was like someone called, like a man in the street called me a witch today. I really needed that. Like that's so good. That's amazing. It was like having a bad and someone called me a witch. I needed that. It's hilarious. But what about the ones that you've come across? I think that because it's only quite recently, we have seen that we have those memes that maybe, again, this is a good thing about technology. It's brought people together to feel in community and unison with this term.

Up until then, especially the women that have profoundly changed my life, which I describe as witches, are probably, you know, 60 plus. And I think they... Not on Instagram, can't find them, live in like a hut in them wherever, yeah. Totally. And I think that the term has just been irrelevant to them in the sense that it, because it has been shrouded

and so much confusion, it was unnecessary for them to use the word because they knew who they were. And so as a consequence, they were unlabeled. They were just doing what they were doing, whether they were here, whether they were herbalists, whether they were just the wise women of their community. So people were seeking them out, not really knowing who they were seeking out.

But I love it when people are now claiming the word more because I think that it writes the wrongs of history. Let's talk about the experiences you've had with these encounters because you speak very personally in the book about things that you've navigated over the last few years and how these sometimes chance encounters have kind of just transformed your experience of something that's occurred because I think that that is such a powerful thing when you're feeling like you're going through something very heavy and then you have this like, oh my God, this person is seeing everything without knowing anything about me. Oh my gosh, it's been so palpable over the last few years.

I'm always reminded about being very careful on the art you work on. So my books to me are kind of almost like art because every single day you're kind of chipping away a little bit at it. And it's whatever you focus on obviously gets louder. So whatever you're doing, I find that life will find you a way to go challenge you on it. And so I started writing this book. And about five years ago when I was, well, six years ago, I was 30 and I had been diagnosed with premature ovarian decline, essentially on the verge of infertility.

And my markers were as if I was in my late 40s. And so I was told that, you know, motherhood just might not be an option. I had to freeze my eggs really urgently. We barely got any eggs out because of the low count. And it was very shocking because it was something that I had just assumed would never be a problem. And suddenly I was reckoning with this reality that was so foreign to all the hopes of wishes and dreams that I had always had. And so I, every four months, I would always go and see my

young, young tarot card reader who was a psychotherapist by training. And she would teach me about young. She was the one that told me about psychosynthesis. She was the one that really encouraged me to do my postgraduate in it. And she's been an amazing mentor. And she's in her 80s. Anyway, she was doing my tarot cuts at the end of a session. And she said, oh, you're going to be pregnant. And I laughed. I said, oh, no, that can't be possible. Maybe the tarot means something else. I think it means the birth of a, I don't know, when you project. Yeah. And she said, no, you're going to be pregnant. Just call me when you are. And I just laughed again. Okay, fine. I don't, I don't, I don't think that interpretation is quite right this time, but whatever. So five months later, and also my

partner had gone through as a child, cancer. So we also didn't know if that was going to affect fertility. So we didn't, we were kind of at a point both of us were like, it's not like both of us particularly optimized, but this really might not happen. And anyways, and I spontaneously find myself pregnant five months later and I am shocked and that would be an understatement. So naturally, she's just maybe the second person I call the tarot card reader to say, you're right, like I'm pregnant. And she said, oh, I was thinking about you last week. I knew this. And I call up my mom. I her and um and i just it's it's it's because of my my biological markers it it felt even more of a miracle and a blessing yeah so now i was pregnant for uh five months and my mother had been started to get

a bit negative about the pregnancy which was really annoying me because she's the most positive magical person ever so i thought why are you being so kind of oh don't worry if your scans don't go well because i thought obviously they're going to go well this is a miracle baby and and, you know, 12 weeks scan, all fine. Anyway, get to 19 weeks, I have an early 20-week scan, and they find a life-threatening problem that means that the baby would not be able to live. So I get told they have to have an emergency termination.

And I call up my mom, obviously, hysterical. And she said, oh, I don't know if you want to hear this poppy, but I knew. I said, what, like, what do you mean? you. And she said, well, and my mother has a crystal pendulum that she asks questions to and has done for years. And when I had told her I was pregnant, she had, you know, that night looked at her pendulum, said, oh, it's probably going to have a baby next year. And she didn't even know why she was asking because obviously I was. Yeah. And the crystal said no. And she thought, okay,

this, obviously I've got this wrong. She starts to ask more questions. And the crystal keeps coming about the same answer, Poppy's baby's not going to go to term. Poppy's not going to have a baby in 2025. Poppy's going to have a baby in, you know, baby in 2026. And anyway, it was strange because this very weird experience of my mother's actually was so deeply comforting because in that moment when I was faced with a life I did not want to be living. It was going totally the direction I didn't want to go in.

and yet my mother's weird prophecy reminded me that oh okay maybe maybe this wasn't supposed to be and it gave me hope okay but if this if you if your crystal predicted this maybe it's going to be right about 2026 and so I have to go through this horrendous medieval operation which I wish no woman ever has to go through I feel they have not changed it ever and and it was and so the physical pain the emotional pain it's all extortionate. And, but this mother, my mother's prophecy just kept, I kept my mind. This wasn't supposed to be, but this baby's coming. So I, I then went to, I was researching for the book and I'd heard about these two psychics that work out of this pub and their hospice workers. And so in the evening, they do this for charity and you can't pay them anything more than 30 pounds.

That's the only money they'll take. In the hospice? No, they do it in this local pub, like really run down. pub. And so anyway, I, in the middle of, you know, it's the middle of January, it's freezing and I'm cycling there. And I get to the pub and I get ushered in to sit with this kind of wise woman's corner of this pub. And she, and she gets out her tarot and she goes within the first 30 seconds, have you just had a termination? And I am stunned. I said yes. She said, oh, he's here. I just sat there just not even I mean I so believe in all the stuff but even then I was like how how is this even possible and I said do you have any questions and I said yes can you ask him why he didn't want to come because in Kabbalah is something it's a philosophy that's been around for thousands of years one of the oldest philosophies in the world I was always told by the teachers of Kabbalah you know every soul chooses it's beginning and chooses end and so so some souls only want to be in neutral for four or five months. And that was their choice. Their soul chose that in order to complete their life lesson. And my, you know, Kabbalistic teacher

had called me to say, look, probably, don't, you know, you, don't worry. This soul lived, even though it was for such short time. It was really important relationship and you need to grieve it accordingly. And, and she said, but he's not, he is coming back though. He's, it just, it wasn't the right time. And she said, and this girl here is well with him. And I said, okay, anyway, six weeks later, I shockingly find myself pregnant again. And I fully can't believe it because I firstly don't think I can get pregnant naturally.

So this was all quite shocking. And I assumed, oh, well, my mum was obviously got it wrong because it means I'm going to have a baby in 2025. It'll be late. It'll be December at this point. And it's going really well. I really enjoy being pregnant. And, you know, it's strange. that it's going so against the crystal's prediction.

But again, with these things, it's a matter of interpretation. And I get to five months, go into the scan, really excited, and they find a completely different life-altering disaster. And the doctor just looks at me and says, I've never experienced this. I don't understand how you're going through this. I'm so sorry. And, you know, it was, second one was often,

I think it was probably harder than the first, because I then knew what awaited me. But again, thank God for my mother's prophecy, because I thought, well, this crystal said I wasn't going to have a baby in 2025. So even when I was grieving and in the pain, I thought maybe it's going to be, maybe, okay, maybe it's about 2026. So we go through all these genetic tests. We do everything science offers us.

We can't find one reason for it. Because it's nothing to do with what you found out about it. Nothing. to totally separate, insane problem, freak things that meant the baby couldn't breathe or couldn't live or couldn't, bizarre, no doctor could give me an answer. And I went to as many as you could possibly find, literally unturned, overturned, every pebble I could unturn. And so I can say now that I'm pregnant with a girl. I know we born in 20206.

I know. Oh my God. I'm so happy for you. So, oh, thanks. What a journey. What a journey. Oh, my God. I can't even.

I can't even, I can't even, I can't even, I'm in shock even when I think about what has that happened over the last two years. And this book was being written in the background of all of this. and yeah I just can't when when they called me at three months and they said do you want to know the gender I said yes they say what what do you think it is and I said I think it's a girl because the last two were boys and they said yeah it's a girl and I couldn't believe it this crazy prophecy of my mothers of your mothers and then also the woman at the pub that said there's a girl here too

yes yes oh my god I just, and it's so, it is really, it's, it's so, and, you know, these mystical experiences, they don't take away the trauma, but they reposition it. And that is the hope I needed. And I think it reminded me that all of us go through such tragedies, and it is how do we keep that hope? And I think that this is where the book became a life line for me. Because life doesn't make sense a lot of the time. Well, we were talking about this before we started recording that there has been like, I guess there was a trend of this

prescribing a certain formula for people that is promising them a life that avoids pain or difficulty. And of course, like we were saying, we all drunk the collade and then that's just not how life works. And things happen that are beyond our comprehension, beyond understanding or reason as to why things have happened to us. And I think what your book is like obviously the beauty of that being, the support for you through this period.

But then I feel that's really injected in the writing because it feels like a book. Even when I was reading it, it made me emotional. I don't know why, but it was just like this comfort because it doesn't feel like you're prescribing anything or selling anything. It's just like a need for people to. find hope in their moments of despair. Yeah. And, you know, as anyone who's going on a long fertility journey, which I'm sure many people listening are, there's no rhyme or reason. You know, you're taking the supplements, you're doing all the health advice. And the same thing with death. When death is,

has arrived too early, it doesn't, that, there's no reason for it. You know, why? Why should that happen to that person, to the ones that we love, you know, to us to. And I think that, that there is, that we've gone through this really strange, maybe 10 years of biohacking, desperately trying to control our life. And people say, oh, if you do these four steps, you're going to get everything, everything you want. But as we were talking about it, you know, you had all these plans and then suddenly a war breaks out.

That wasn't on the vision board. It's, it's, and so I think that it's someone who loves a plan and as someone who loves a list and someone who loves instructions, give me an instruction and I will follow them. And I did. I followed it all. I got, you know, in those kind of early, when I was building, especially a technology company and a fashion company, you know, I'd read all those manuals. If you do this, you know, you can get why. And I did all those things, but I didn't get the result that I had been promised. And that's when I think life can get but disappointing because you go, well, I'm doing everything. I'm working really hard.

I'm leaning in inverted commas that all women were told by Cheryl Sandberg and kind of you know, 2015, 2016, I think. And yet, what was it, the results weren't as I was promised. And so it's taken me definitely, you know, nearly a decade to go, okay, rather than believing that there is this formula

that we are missing out on, you know, something there's inherently flawed within us that why we can't follow the formula, rather than kind of getting stuck in that trap, especially when things become so confusing, you know, you know, I thought, Why is it that I should be landed with low fertility? Why is it that I should have two, like, crazy termination at five months and be living in so much grief?

Why? But actually, just to say, oh, well, this was, my soul chose this life journey. So even though I might not have chosen it, for whatever reason, how do I embrace it? Because you speak about this and how you practice Kabbalah and that that's part. And what's, is it, to Kuhn? To Koon. Yeah. Yeah.

Would you be able to explain. what that is for people. And also you speak about how to manage it better with awareness. So rather than just being like, okay, like low self-war, so keep going for bad relationships. It's like how do you recognize? And you almost like, say you go against your own tendencies. Yes.

So in Kabbalistic philosophy, they always talk about restriction. And so this idea that how do you strike a match, you need friction in order to get fire and light. And so the whole point of every single day, the mission is to how do you create as much light in your life every day? And one way to create as much light as possible is through soul restriction. And this is the idea, and soul restriction will be different for everyone. I think that's the important point.

For example, if you are a bull in a china shop and you force your way through everything and you demand things and you're quite selfish and a little bit narcissistic. Your sole restriction is to do the exact opposite, which is to be patient, maybe to be a bit more passive, maybe to listen more. Whereas if you're someone who is perhaps someone who gives endlessly of always conflict, is nervous about taking opportunities, well, your sole restriction is to the opposite, is to go for the opportunity that feels too far away, is to be a bit more selfish, is to reclaim your time, is to actually say no. So this idea that you're constantly going against what feels uncomfortable. So if you find something easy and you're trying to make a

decision, oh, shall I go to the party or not? Well, if you're someone who goes out every single night, your saw restriction is to not go to the party. But if you never go out. Yeah, your sort of restriction is to, no, I'm going to force myself, I'm going to go. And so you're constantly, and also when things become comfortable, then your saw restriction continues to evolve because you're continuing to restrict against what the easy option is in life. And it means that it goes back to the Einstein definition, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, expecting different result. Soar restriction means you are constantly evolving. You're constantly creating new experiences for yourself. You're constantly opening up new opportunities because

you're constantly challenging yourself to go against what feels normal and comfortable. And I found this particular tool, life changing. What was it for you or one of the things for you? I think it's changed through, I, in my 20s, when I was building the companies, I would have that feeling of, oh, if I didn't go to that work event, then I would miss out on an opportunity and then my career wouldn't move forward. And so I went to everything. I said yes to everything. I was on an airplane twice a week. I lived in between the UK and the US, sometimes going from West Coast to London, 10-hour flight. And I was so desperately fearful of missing out on progression that I fundamentally became extremely burnt out. And so my restriction in my early 30s then was to say,

I've got to trust that opportunities will find me as well. I don't constantly have to be seeking them out, trying to find, you know, making sure that I meet every single person at the party just in case that, you know, they're going to have some advice for my business or whatever. So that was a big restriction to have more trust that the things will find me. I don't have to constantly be in a state of exhaustion. I think another big restriction was in my own relationship as well. I think that I was so fearful of falling into a settled relationship because I felt that, you know, maybe they would take my time or, you know, maybe I wouldn't have my time or my independence and my independence was so important.

So actually surrendering into a relationship more was a huge restriction for me to be able to trust someone to know that it's okay. It won't kind of, you won't fall into their orbit and lose your own sort of. Yeah, exactly. So it just appears or, you know, even I'm an oversensitive person so I can immediately take everything personally. So again, a constant restriction I have to practice is to, you know, follow the four agreements of not taking things personally, knowing that it's not about me, someone else's behavior. Not so good at that one. But, you know, you, in every area of it. life, everybody can find their own restrictions. So it's sort of going against what feels natural

in a way. Yes. But then also, because that was very close to the part about desire, which I also found interesting, because I feel like in a way that could be in conflict with each other, because perhaps a patterning that's not necessarily good for your soul's evolution or it's something that actually is like negative view could be tied up in desire. I would say that there are different types of desire. You've got ego, desire and soul desire, and it is quite difficult to extrapolate, which one is which. But the idea that ego desire is something, I think, 90% of us mistake a soul desire, but actually it's borrowed desires. And this is kind of what I was speaking to earlier. This idea that, because we spend so much time looking at other people's lives, it's really easy to borrow other people's

desires when they're not really ours. And so, for example, you desired that promotion. You really want the promotion. But actually, you are most happy when you have Fridays off working from home when you can be in the garden. But that promotion will stop you from doing what you really want to do, which is have Fridays off. So is the marginal salary increase worth sacrificing the thing that makes you most happy. And I think it's a constant trade-off of where is the desire coming from and what is leading it. Because career progression is something that I would, I fell into, the trap I fell into, was such a priority above everything. But it actually wasn't my true truth. It wasn't my truth. I had just, from age of 12, felt that that was the way. So I'm going to recreate.

I'm going to recycle all the things that I have been told were important in life. Pogression at all costs. So I think that it's a journey to be able to strip away the desires that aren't truly yours. You know, even in my, again, even in my romantic relationships, I think that I thought I wanted this one particular list. And actually, it took me a while to realize I didn't want any of those things on that list. Because it was an ego-driven thing.

It was an ego-driven thing. Often when I look at people's manifesting lists, they all look the same. And I think, well, we're not the same. So obviously, we don't really want the same things when you go down to these niche soul desires. So soul desires come from the most random places. Suddenly you have this urge to go to Lisbon.

That's not for everyone. but it was for you. That desire found you. And actually where restriction comes in is shutting down that sole desire. Oh no, why would I go to Lisbon? Because I need to be here and do this. And oh, no, I've got that meeting next Tuesday

and so I couldn't possibly because I'm someone who doesn't miss meetings and I can't possibly go on the trip. Well, restriction would say, cancel the meeting, follow the soul desire. Even though you feel you're someone who doesn't cancel meetings, cancel the meeting. So I think actually they work in harmony when it's true soul desires and true soul restriction. How much do you think and trust or can one trust that there will be divine intervention that will nudge you in the right direction when you're trying to discern? I mean, I personally think that divine intervention will always happen.

I am someone who is so determined, and so it means that I miss out on all the small mudges. They're like, uh-uh, poppy, you're like, get up my way. Yeah. I'm like, no, no, no, I have a plan and this plan is going to unfold as I have planned. And the universe keeps sending the signs, starts me around the face and says, this isn't the right path, this isn't the right path. and I'll say, no, I am going to do the path. And so my divine interventions are always quite dramatic because I will.

Because you ignored the first few. Yeah, ignore 100 times. They're telling me the wrong path. I feel like I've got a lot better, but the frustration is when you still don't know where exactly it's leading you or why certain things are happening. Because it's not like they make, they're never a plan that makes sense in your head. Right. And that's kind of the fun of it, because we have a plan.

We're determined. You know, anyone I'm sure listening to this podcast is very good at organising their life in that sort of way. I want to get to B, so I have to do X, Y, Z. But then the universe is saying,

sorry, sister, not for you. And it makes no sense why you're not getting what you want. Until... Until... And so that's why I opened the book saying,

isn't magic... It's magical the feeling of looking back, being happy about all the things you didn't get. thrilled about the guys that broke up with you, thrilled about the jobs you got rejected from. And you just go, thank God.

But the real challenge is to be thankful for them in real time when you're in the park, when you're like, why is this happening to me? Because it's easier retrospectively when everything's sort of fallen into place and you go, oh yeah, that's why that didn't happen. That's why I didn't get that job. That's why I missed that train.

but when you're still in mid-story to be able to be appreciative then, I think, is the real. That's what I got from the book is like to be okay with the mid-story chaos. It's true. And there's this beautiful quote from Jill Purs, who is an amazing chanting teacher. And she said, a crisis in Latin, I think, actually means a moment to decide. So every crisis you are given, you're actually given a decision. and I really loved that rephrasing. And so often when I'll call my Kabbalistic astrologer

about some awful thing that's happened or some crisis that I'm in, she'll say, excellent, couldn't be happier for you. And I'll sit there and say, no, no, no, you've misheard. It's going badly. And she said, no, no, great, great. Because they truly believe that the biggest gifts are at the bottom.

So it's only when you're in a crisis, do you truly see truth? When things are going well, actually that's when they say, be on your guard, really practice spirituality more when things are going well because often we turn to spirituality when things are going wrong. But actually they say when things are going wrong, the universe is taking over and it's guiding you to a much better place. When things are going right, that's when you need soul restriction more.

You need to really focus on these spiritual disciplines. That makes sense. Oh, wow. I love that. And there was a final person in your book that I wanted to ask you about called D. Oh, Daika. Dika. Yeah.

Which, who is she and where does she come from? Dika is just, I think, one of the best people I've ever met. She is my Jung Yang tarot card reader in her 80s. And she wrote a beautiful book called Synchronicity. And she's the one that's been married three times. Oh my gosh. She's so inspiring. I met her maybe just under 10 years ago. And I was going through all these different breakups and everything that was going wrong in my dating life. And she says, honey, I've been married three times and I can tell you it only gets better. I love that so much.

And she often says, and this can be not necessarily marriage, but long-term relationships. You date your mother, you date your father, and then you find your soulmate. Yeah. And her third husband was her soulmate, who was another incredible, very prestigious Jungung psychologist. And they went around the world looking at spiritual sites and the history of these spiritual sites. And so, and even in her 80s, she's still practicing. She's the best tarot card reader I've ever met. She reads and reads and reads her knowledge of spiritual history and mysticism is so grand. founded in enormous amounts of literature.

And I think to myself, well, if I am in my mid-80s living a life like Daika, I've lived a really good life. That's honestly how I envision my future as like being someone like that. Yes. And just having these wonderful women coming into your home and having cups of tea and reading cards. Yes. And so her understanding of humanity, I would go to her when I would start dating someone new. and should say, oh, it's not ever going to last two weeks.

And was she always right? Always right. And I say, no, no, you've got this wrong. Because the only thing I want to say is like a caveat to all of this, because I've thought about it a lot because obviously, like, the Saturn Returns, well, like, they're so interlinked. Everything we're discussing is like stuff that I do, the world that I'm part of, stuff that my audience wants.

And I get a lot of people, and I'm sure you do too, people saying, can you give me like your healers number of, and I'm always a little bit. because I think you need to find them. I agree. Because the most magical ones are the ones that, like, they don't have a phone number. They don't have a mobile, like the one you were talking about in Ohio. You have to, like, send a pigeon to them, basically. And so it's like naturally when the right moment comes is, it just happens, like synchronicity.

But then sometimes I worry because I've had friends that I've had experiences where people have told them stuff that's inaccurate. maybe a little bit dangerous perhaps and where is the line between like trust and subcontracting over to like someone else's guidance because you aren't actually in trust you know I do agree with you and I do get a lot of messages and Diker's not practicing really anymore for new clients so I will say I will say that before you get 100 DMs after this episode and I found all these witches purely through, to your point, synchronicity, serendipity. And if you have your eyes open, you will find them.

You'll be going to a post office in a random village and you'll see a little business card that will say intuitive readings and you'll go, I'll give that one a go. You'll call them and you'll have this experience. But what I would say, because I now as a hobby, speak to as many people as I can because I just love the experience and it's something of a profession of finding different healers. So I kind of go on these lots of journeys to find them. And I have definitely spoken to deeply inaccurate ones that I would be shocked how they can even call themselves an intuitive reader. So I do think everybody needs to arrive at any sort of session like this with their own discernment.

And however, if someone says something to you that you're sort of, soul immediately goes that's untrue, listen to that because that is just as valuable as being told things you want to hear or being told things that ring true because you've had a moment of you knowing your own truth. If you respond to something going, that's just not true. Well, you know the answer because you believe the opposite. So I think that regardless of whether, and that's what I believe about the tarot too, it doesn't matter what someone says. The real value in any session is not really the information you're being given, but actually how you're responding to that information.

So if your body screams, no, I know that's not true. That's just as valuable as, ah, yes, confirmation. Because a good psychic will only tell you things that you already know deep down. And that's when you know they're good. They don't really tell you anything new. Really what you're going for is confirmation of your inner knowing. Oh, that's so powerful. Yeah.

So stay, to keep your discernment and take it with a pinch of salt too. Because as Diker says, character is destiny, but you can always change your character. And the other thing that I always like to go back on when it comes to tarot readings is tarot reveals tendencies. For example, if I have a massive sugar tooth, I am far more likely to eat the cookies in front of me than someone that doesn't like sugar. So that's a tendency. So Tara can reveal a tendency, you like sugar.

But that doesn't mean I have to eat the cookies in front of me. So when we're aware of our tendencies, we can change them and create different results, that the power is understanding your tendencies and that it doesn't necessarily mean destiny. Yeah, and using the restriction. Using the restriction. Okay, got it.

And the final thing I wanted to ask is with this pregnancy, how are you feeling in terms of like, is there been any magical moments? Obviously, the whole story about becoming pregnant is a magical one. But is there anything that's kind of come to you in the pregnancy that's like super magical or mystical or not quite. yet I think that it's interesting because of all of this stuff is kind of what I said at the beginning that balance between super conscious and subconscious is such a delicate one because obviously my experience, my subconscious has been so traumatic. So do you have that kind of fear? Yeah, so I arrive at scans going knowing that I have this hope from my mother, which was such a gift, I still have the fear of, but is this prophecy going to work out? Like is it? You know, I still

And so I'm constantly reminded of the beauty and the wonder and the magical nature of life. And at the same time, obviously, our brain is based on data from experiences. And so we're constantly having to find new data to almost dilute the data that we've built inside. And but now that we're past 20 weeks and it was, I think it was Saturday, I was 20. I was 21 weeks and I woke up for the first time just so excited because up until then I just couldn't allow myself to get excited. And still now I'm, I'm, you know, my best friend said, oh, let's arrange a cute baby shower. And I said, no, I can't do anything until this baby is in the world because it just, it just, it is a constant, yeah, it's a constant process.

But I do feel really connected, you know, the journey that we've been on the fact that I've been told this little girl is coming. It feels very cosmic and it's interesting because she'll share the same star sign as my partner. What star sign is that? Okay. And again, I feel, oh well, she really chose him. Because of her due date. Yeah.

But what if she was quite late? Because Lola was supposed to be a tourist and then she ended up being a double Gemini. Really? Because I'm a tourist. I'm like, it's a mini-me. And then I'm like, got this double Gemini on my hands. I think biologically, because I have a very, very low placenta or something,

they've said that I have to have a C-section. Otherwise, I'd be one of those people. So she's going to be a Scorpio. So she's going to be a Scorpio. And it's interesting because Scorpio is, having now been with a scorpio for five years, I have really had to learn what scorpios are like. Which is?

Which are definitely, they have a bad reputation and they're not the scorpios that I assumed they would be. And actually very few scorpios, there's a few scorpios that have a stingy tail. But the scorpors I know are very emotionally intense. They feel so deeply. and as a cancerian, that does worry me slightly because I know what it's like to feel so sensitive. It's a lot of feelings.

We're going to have a lot of feelings in our household. A lot of things. It's physically triple water. And so, yeah, it's interesting because I'm being very conscious because I think, oh, wow, I'm going to have quite a sensitive girl. And so now I'm kind of even more aware of the pregnancy. Yeah. And kind of my stimuli around me.

But it's, you know, it's in the universe's hands. It's so exciting. And what does your, what does your mom think about it all what she's saying? I think it's funny. She's probably the same. She's so magical and mystical. And she kept saying whenever I get worried about the pregnancy, she said, I've asked the crystal again.

The crystal says, it's fine. And so when she says that, I thought, okay, yeah, yeah, you're right. Okay, yeah, you're right. But I also think she too. has only really recently been able to kind of get excited because I think we've all been just after the last two years, you know, it's a lot. We have plans. The universe is different ones. But yeah, it's very, it's, it's, it's the first five days that I've been able to kind of, and it's interesting because I really wasn't showing at all. And the moment that I relaxed,

it was overnight suddenly my partner said, you're pregnant now. And it was just, It's not interesting. Yeah. It was like my body was holding on for dear life to kind of, just in case anything happened. Yeah. And I work up in the morning and suddenly the bump was there. Wow. I love that.

I'm so happy for you. I'm so excited. It's just such a magical story, the whole thing. And I think tying in with like the book coming out and everything is, is so wonderful. So congratulations. Oh, thanks so much, Kags. Is there anything you want to leave our listeners with in terms of like, where to get the book, where to find you.

The book of magical living is anywhere you can buy books. And as we're discussing in the podcast, it is about finding your own magic in life and it looks at the new science that's validating this ancient wisdom. So for anyone who likes the science side of mysticism, there's plenty of that and there. But I just hope that it gives people what it gave me, which was just to reignite hope

in life. And you can find me on Instagram. Amazing. Thank you. Thanks so much. I loved, loved this conversation with Poppy. I've had Poppy on the show before. I love her energy. I love her vibe. And when I saw that she had this book out and was embracing this new magical way of being, I had to have her on the show. And I'm so glad that we had this conversation because it feels very fitting to everything that we discuss on this podcast and I felt so touched by her sharing her story, her vulnerability, her experience and the way that she constantly came back to this sort of this magical way of being. And I think we all need that

because we can get very heady. We can all become a bit. I know myself I can feel like a victim of things sometimes when I don't know why things are happening or I don't know how things are unfolding. And it's just a reminder to trust, to trust. And the synchronicities to follow your intuition and also to disconnect a little bit how her journey from disconnecting from technology made her more connected to her intuition and I feel like we're all a bit guilty of that at the moment as much as AI is fantastic and social media has brought so many people together I do sometimes find myself going to my phone for the answers that can only be found in that voice, in that quiet inner voice

and actually just creating more space to allow yourself to hear that voice is more important than ever right now. So thank you so much to Poppy for coming on the show and you can find her book anywhere at the moment, The Book of Magical Living. It's incredible.

I loved it so much. It felt like it's very similar to Saturn returns for anyone going through that. It's just so powerful. So go find her book. And I hope you enjoy this conversation. And if you did, please share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. And as always, remember, you are not alone.

Goodbye.