Saturn Returns with Caggie - Lisa Lister: How Can Venus Help Us Reclaim Our Feminine Power and Magnetism?

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

For our final episode of Letters to Venus, Caggie is joined by the wonderful Lisa Lister - author of Venus: A Sacred Path and expert in feminine energy and cyclical living. Together, they dive into the true power of Venus - beyond the clichés of love and romance - revealing how understanding this celestial force can help you reclaim your feminine energy, trust your intuition, and create a life of magnetic self-expression. In this conversation, Caggie and Lisa explore: 💫 The deeper meaning of Venus - beyond traditional associations with love and beauty 💫 The 19-month Venus cycle and how it shapes creativity, relationships, and self-discovery 💫 Reclaiming feminine power by understanding Venus as both the morning and evening star 💫 Dismantling patriarchal narratives - breaking free from the Madonna-Whore complex 💫 The transformative power of pregnancy as a portal to creative and spiritual expansion 💫 The "Wild Roses" - women throughout history who embodied sovereign feminine power 💫 Practical ways to embody Venusian energy - from self-love rituals to creative expression This episode is a must-listen for anyone feeling the call to step into their feminine power, trust their inner knowing, and create with confidence. If this episode - and the entire Letters to Venus season - has resonated with you, we have exciting news! ✨ We have a few spaces left, so we've decided to extend enrollment for our Letters to Venus course, where you can dive deeper into these themes with an incredible lineup of guest experts: 🌙 Session 1 - Venus Embodied Through Astrology with Noura Bourni - replay available! 🔥 Session 2 - Somatic Embodiment & Hip Activation with Letters to Venus guest Kiana Reeves 🌹 Session 3 - Venus Through the Ages with Lisa Lister - exploring the evolution of Venusian wisdom 💬 Final Session - Modern Dating & Relationships Panel & Q&A with Caggie, Olivia Petter & Lalala Let Me Explain 👉 Sign up here - doors close Saturday, 29th March 💌

For those of you looking to deepen your understanding of love and healthy partnership, I am launching a live course as a companion to Letters to Venus. This course is an opportunity to go deeper, guided by experts and supported by a like-minded community. So whether you're out there seeking a partner and you're tired of dating the same person in different forms, or if you're feeling unsure about the next step in your current relationship, or if you just feel like you've got patterns going on that you just can't quite unpick, this course will offer a safe and private space to explore love and relationships without judgment. to explore love and relationships without judgment.

I will be your personal cosmic agony aunt leading weekly live webinars, along with workshops and panel discussions hosted by incredible guest experts. Spaces are limited, so if you would like to join, head to the show notes or visit satamreturns.co.uk to sign up. Hello everyone and welcome to a new spin-off show from Saturn Returns all around love, relationships and dating. This is Letters to Venus. Venus is the goddess of love, the celestial muse of beauty, desire

and connection. She teaches us that love is not just something we seek, it is something we embody. Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Letters to Venus. Today I'm thrilled to be sitting back down with Lisa Lister. For those of you that have been listening to the show for a very long time. I think Lisa came on season two and we saw that she had a book out called Venus. So we were like, well, we've got to get her back on. And it was such a delightful conversation to have because it was obviously so in alignment with this whole project that we've been putting out. To give you a little bit of an overview, This book is really about soaking up life's experiences and loving life and living it deliciously. It's the planet of love. It's the ancient Roman goddess of love, sex and beauty.

And we go into Venus through the ages, what it represented, what it represents today, how it sort of become distorted in certain aspects and how we can reclaim it for ourselves. What I love about Lisa is she truly is the embodiment of it. And she won't mind me saying this, but when she came to record this podcast, we finished recording and I was asking her about her relationship and we were talking about the course that I'm doing that she's going to be taking part in, the Letters to Venus course. And she was just kind of saying about, you know, like how happy she is in her relationship with her man. She was like, yeah, you know, he drove me here and she lives

out of London. She was like, and he's just waiting down the road. And she was like, just gave the shrug of, and that's how I need to be, this is how I should be treated. And I just love that because I do, I do meet a lot of wonderful women that seem like for whatever reason they've been quite stuck or feel like they have to be operating from their masculine and they seem drained by it and they seem to struggle with attracting a partner because of it. And what I love about Lisa in this episode is it's all about getting back into that feminine energy that is just so delicious and magnetic. And so I hope that you enjoy this. And if you do and you want to go even deeper with us, you can sign up to the Letters to Venus course. There is still a couple of spaces

left and I can't wait to see you guys there. So I hope you enjoy this episode. Hey, Celesta! You are back on the show. How lucky am I? Thanks for having me. Hey, Celesta! Woohoo! Hey! You are back on the show. How lucky am I? Thanks for having me. Am I right in thinking that the first, well, the last time that you came to record, were we sitting on my bed?

Yeah. You're like, should we do this in bed? Like some kind of circa big breakfast situation? Times have changed. I'm glad I've evolved since then. Like this set up, it's lovely. Because that was super fun. That was back in like 2020.

It was, it was a 2020 situation, yeah. Yeah, wow. Well, welcome back. Thank you for having me. And I'm super excited about what we're gonna dive into today. You too. So just to add a bit of context, because obviously I've been following your work since then. And then I've been doing this whole project around Venus.

And it's been a real... Twice ruled by Venus, Libra rising, Taurus sun. So, it feels like a very natural space for me to be in. And I'm just like, we need to dive into this planet. We've done Saturn a lot, we've done a lot of service there. And then when I saw your book, I was like, perfect. SHANNON-CHADOWSKY Come on. It's a beautiful combination. But you're so right. If it shows up in your own chart, amazing.

But I also just don't want people to get worried that if it's not like, if they haven't got tons of it in their chart, it's like, specifically as women, we've got like, we are Venetian. That's what we are. So, exciting times. Because that's kind of what I wanted to tap into. Like, how does, like, what does Venus represent in people's charts? Let's just kind of start from there. And also why you have become so...

Is it a new love? No, I wouldn't say it was a new love. I'd say it was... No, definitely not a new love? No, I wouldn't say it was a new love. I'd say it was, um... No, definitely not a new love. The reason I love it is because when I was a kid, like my mom, I'm someone from a gypsy traveler heritage. Um, so my mom was what's called a sky reader. Um, which meant she would read this,

so it's like astrology, but without the angles, without the numbers, without any of that. It's a felt kind of astrology. And so, she would tell me about this planet that appeared for a certain amount of time in the morning, and then would appear for a certain amount of time in the sky in the evening. So, for like forever, people thought they were two separate things. And so now it's like, oh, actually then... As I've got older and recognized in myself, it's like, well, actually we all have this... capacity to be more than one thing.

Right? And it's become such a kind of metaphor for like this morning star energy that feels very warrior-like. And then this, you know, it's just, well, I don't want to ask, I mean, shall I go into the kind of cycle of it? Yeah, go for it. Okay, well then this, so this in the kind of... So there's people listening know that we are talking about Venus. Sorry, yeah, we just said, I'm just trying to get in. Yeah, the planet Venus. And so,

all the planets have this gorgeous cycle, but Venus has this 19-ish months cycle. And what I love about Venus is that you can't pin her down. Like, you can't go, she's got this exact amount of time, and it's like 19 months-ish. And so within that, she's a morning star for seven and a half-ish months, and then she's an evening star for seven and a half-ish months. And on that, she descends.

So as a morning star, she's this warrior, she's going into action, and she's this... She's on the descent, right? Like, she goes... So we see her in the morning sky. Like, physically, we get to see her, but not for long. And then as she descends and goes into the underworld, like, we have this 90-day period, which we call Venus in the underworld. And then have this 90-day period, which we call Venus in the underworld.

And then she, whilst in that, whilst in that phase, she becomes Evening Star. And that's like an empress energy, I see it as. So you have this warrior energy, and you have this empress energy on the ascent when she appears in the sky as... And even in Star Venus. So we have it, and then obviously we have this... Venus retrograde phase, where she changes signs,

and she changes energy, and we get to cycle with her every 19 months. And each of those 19 months, she will be in an astrological sign. So, she's been in Leo, which is the... Are we in Venus retrograde now? It starts literally on Sunday. Yeah. Yeah.

And then that's a 40-day phase of, like, we get to really assess. So, when you're asking about the planet Venus, it's like the astrological sign is a mirror, right? Like, you can even, it's shaped like a mirror. And so, for me, and I don't claim to be an astrologer, but for me, it represents, like, a mirror, a reflective... She's a reflection of who we are.

She reflects back to us who we are. And we can work with that cycle, that, you know, that descent into the underworld, out of the under... Like, strip ourselves of all the things that we're not. Go into the underworld and then come back out and ascend, like, in full empress energy. And you can choose to take any of those things that you... To take any of those things that you left behind, but it's all choice, you know? It becomes choice versus, yeah,

versus like, this is who I think I should be. That's what that first half feels like. We're just like looking and assessing, like, who have I been told I am? What are the stories I've been told about how I should look, how I should express myself? Then moves into that darker space, that kind of Venus in the underworld space, where we meet ourselves and go, oof, okay, we're bare when we get there. We're stripped, we strip ourselves of everything. Um, we thought we were, move and then move out.

And we can take back any of those things, but on our terms, not on anyone else's. SHANNON And of it, Thor, the people looking at their chart and where Venus shows up, like, it's to do with relationships and connections, like you say, kind of mirror for ourselves, but it's also very much wrapped up in our self-worth, how we value ourselves, how we attract and are magnetism.

Yeah. And that's what I think is like so powerful because one of the main reasons, like I guess the podcast series and the course is because not only have I recognized that like relationships are the biggest mirror for our, and also container for our own growth. And they bring up aspects of ourselves that if we were, you know, on our own,

we wouldn't be able to really confront and deal with. And that can be incredibly painful, but really powerful. So, I think looking at, like, Venus in terms of how we relate to each other, how we show up in partnership, the kind of romantic partnership we wanna call into our lives. But also, how as women, we can use that in our chart to be more magnetic for the things that we want to call in.

In a way, because, you know, the reality is we live in a very... We live in a very, like, masculine man's world. Like, especially in the working world. And I find that I meet a lot of women that are having to kind of play into these roles. That for some, it feels like a natural place to be. And for others, it feels quite forced, but it feels like it's necessary for them to succeed. And I can see there's like a cost. It's like burnout, fatigue,

you know, maybe some illness and stuff like that, because we're not really playing into our feminine strength. And I feel like Venus is like the aspect where we can look at. It's like, it's not, it's abstract. It's not linear, it's not logical, but it makes sense to us. SHAREEE KAUR, M.D. You just said it so beautifully because I think that non-linear part is so important,

like the cyclical nature of it, the fact that we may have worked with moon cycles, for instance, to understand ourselves and our relationship to ourselves, because that's a... We've been told this is a feminine planet, which it absolutely is. Which it is, yeah. But it's a more like maternal... Right. Yeah, right. And it's... Whereas this... we have this Venusian cycle, which is like 19 months, and it's like such an exploration. And like you say, it's like then it's, we have like a bigger opportunity to explore,

on our terms, to feel, because it's a much more of a feeler. And when you're talking about the magnetism, it's like, we need to practice, and this is why I love Venus quite as much as I do, because I talk about it all the time, about learning, it's so important for us to learn how to receive. Um, in order to be our most magnetic self.

So, you can talk about manifesting, you can talk about all of those things, they're all great in concept. But if you, if this beautiful vessel that's your body is not like fecund and fertile, and I don't mean like in the sense of a baby, but potentially, right? But if it's, if it's not ready to receive, if you're not open, at least to the, to the, you know, the capacity to receive, then those things just feel like you're treading water and that you're constantly striving and hustling,

and it's like, oh, no, no, no. This is all about sensuality. This is all about savor. It's like savor in the experience to let more in. And so it's like, you know, and I talk about it in the book, it's like being full of it. Like, we want to be so full of who we are, of ourselves. And Venus is just so perfect for that. Like, getting really specific about the things we love. And then, like you say, being in a relationship

with people that fill us up versus people that... Dream us back. Absolutely that... Drain us back. Absolutely that, yeah. Absolutely that. So how does it show up in your day-to-day life? Or how do you kind of bring it into your day-to-day life? Yeah. Well, it was really interesting. So there was a time when... And the reason I wrote the book was because I went to, um,

Paris for my, um, for my Venus return, which happens... Which is every eight years. Every... Well, and some astrologers will say that it happens every year because, yes, the Venus does return to the sign you were born in every year, but there is, every eight years, there's a... It will come very close to the degree it was at when you were born, which gives us this extra, almost kind of amped up opportunity to tap back into Venus, but specifically for us. So it becomes this really gorgeous, like,

almost like a Venusian retreat time, where we get to explore all the things we love and hold that mirror up and go, okay, so for me, it was like, I'm going to Paris. I'm going to do all the things that are very tropey and very, like, all the things I love. And by doing that, it set some wheels in motion for the next eight years.

Like, it has set some wheels in motion for the next eight years. And it's meant that I've just got very specific about what I'll say yes to and what I'll say no to. It's just really helped me to be like, if it doesn't make me feel like full, juiced up, excited, then it's a no. Mm. Right, and it's that simple.

And that's even in like, in terms of being with a partner, that's in terms of job possibilities, that's in terms of, like, friendships even. You know, it's just recognizing, no, this is not how it's gonna be. And it's just become another... I mean, and we've got so many maps. I know we have. We've got all these opportunities

to witness these things. But as you said, it's so specific to the feminine way. It's a... And it's not to say that, you know, we can't, all humans can't access it. It's a beautiful feminine path, like, that allows us to witness the whole experience of being in that feminine frequency, which is ultimately love, but understanding, like, what all of those versions

of love can look like. Yeah, because I think especially when it comes to motherhood, there is a view that's very self-sacrificing. Mm-hmm. Whereas what I love about Venus is, and I mean this in a wonderful way, is it's, like, selfish. Yeah. I love it. I, and I mean this in a wonderful way, is it's like selfish. SHAREEE KKONAKA Yeah. I love it.

I call it self-sourcing because people really struggle with the word selfish. But like I am totally here to like claim it. Like it's anything, and we know as well that anything that's called selfish is just a way to strip a little bit of power from the potentiality of reminding us of who we are. Who would you say are like, people that archetypally

really represent Venus that are in the public eye? Ooh, I love that. I always think of Monica Bellucci. Oh, perfect. Perfect, yes. You know, it's just like, you know, there's that cliff of her where I think it's from a film, but she like puts a cigarette in her mouth and like all these men just like come in with a lighter.

And she's just like totally unfazed by it. It's like, that's the energy. It's like you just are and you just be in the world and everything just comes to you. And that's such a archetypal, stereotypical view and everything just comes to you. is femininity and the price she had to pay for it. And so we must know that to have that, you must therefore pay a price. Yeah, which is what when women become sort of overly sexualized in a way that's not sort of sovereign to them.

Exactly. I guess like Pamela Anderson's another example of that. Yeah, absolutely. And now I suppose we're witnessing, using Pamela as an example, we're witnessing her claiming some of that sovereignty back. Like... On her own terms.

Yeah, absolutely. I will write my own material. I will show up how I want to show up. You will see me how I've decided you'll see me. Now, is that curated? Probably. But by her. But by her, exactly. And so you get to choose. And I think that's such a key part as well, is that when we're retelling this Venusian story,

so many times it's been told by men, right? And that's not to, that's not to diss the dude, you know, I love him. But it's also just to say that we're sold a very sexualized version of Venus, or a virginal version of her. So this, so the kind of... The more maiden archetype. a very sexualized version of Venus, or a virginal version of her. So, the kind of... The more maiden archetype.

Yeah, so then the virgin and the whore is continually perpetuated. Whereas we're getting to create a new version of that and witness it through our bodies. Like in the book, I say, like our bodies are like a living mystery school, right? They become this mystery school of Venus. Like, people want me to teach or share about it,

but, like, on your course, it will be more about, like, people will feel the experience of Venus, versus through their own body, because all we're ever gonna be doing when we work with that is remembering. It's remembering. Yeah, yeah, totally. And it's like, will we remember? And so when archetypes show up for us,

whether that's in a movie or it's a book we read or it's somebody and we're just like, oh, she's got it. Like, you know, it's like she is it. SHANNON Because you feel it. SHANNON Because you feel it. And you've connected with something that is unspoken. Like, even when people ask me to speak about it, I'm like, we just have to feel it and you've connected with something that is unspoken. Like even when people ask me to speak about it, I'm like, we just have to feel it. Like it has to be a felt experience.

It's actually funny you say that because Nora, who also does a lot of astrology for Saturn Returns had a message from someone yesterday that she sent me that was, she said, oh, I love like this Venus angle and like this new new work that Saturn returns is doing around Venus. And then said something like, it excites me, but also scares me, and I don't know why. Yes! That's the best response. Which is, because I think we are also taught as women not to trust that part of ourselves,

or that it could get us in trouble. Because you mentioned a second ago, the sort of the... I don't know if you used Madonna in the hall, but that kind of like, that aspect that is very much still entrenched in our society and how women are viewed. And I feel that very much at the moment around motherhood, because it then suddenly is like, you really get kind of desexualized.

Right. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think without realizing women often feel like they have to then adopt this, this, I guess, is an archetype in itself around the mother that is self-sacrificing, that is not sexual. That's like a, I don't know, it feels like almost like being like a vessel. Do you think that's why this has shown up, this Venus medicine or?

No, because I've been planning this for ages. Awesome. Yeah, like the Lestons to Venus thing is an idea I've had for a couple of years. It just happened to come out at this time. Oh, did it? It's like proper magic. That's how, and I think that's how she works.

Totally. And it feels like this is the time in my life where I'm growing into that part of myself and wanting to sort of dissect... Dissect it, and also the way that women are viewed. Because from your perspective, how do you dismantle the sort of the Madonna in the hall that exists in all of our psyches?

Well, and it's why I wrote the book, because we are gonna have to tell a different story. We are gonna have to be the ones that... Because what is the main narrative story around Venus and Madonna and the whore? For someone that's listening, it's like, -"I'm not following." -"SHANNON- Right. So, there... And there's versions throughout history.

If you go back to matriarchal societies, the Venusian energy, and this is where, like, I get juiced up, is because she was the ma of creation. So, like, Hathor, the Egyptian goddess, like, pure Venusian energy, entire temples, priestesses, like, all worshiping this, like, this celestial movement. They may not have called it, they didn't call it Venus.

That's a Roman concept, right? We call it that. Even what we're saying, oh, if you say Venus about, like, oh, that's a Venus statue, it's almost just sexualizing the statue. So people have got very, like, you know, into it around the words. For me, I'm always keen, like, if a word is being used against us, like, oh, I'll take back the power, thank you. Yeah, we'll have that back, thank you very much,

and we'll use it in all the ways we want to use it. But for me, witnessing back in the kind of more matriarchal societies, Venus was the ma of all creation. Like, you know, when you are birthing, you are in your full sexual creative power. Like, anything is possible. So, yes, you're birthing life. And, you know, it's also you're birthing entire civilizations, entire freaking galaxies if you want to.

This is the potentiality of what it is to know your creative power. Of course, no one wants us to remember that, right? So then the stories that get told water it down or... So for a while she was desexualized. She was totally virginal. She was covering every... All of the imagery of her is, is, you know, created by male artists throughout history. Is a very, like, covering herself,

keeping herself modest. You know? And then, and then there's the more Aphrodite, which is all about beauty. It's not about, it's not about sex, it's not about sensuality, it's not, it's just pure. Like, it's just beautiful. It's only beautiful things here. When actually, like, there's the Black Madonna's

who hold massive Venus energy. There's like, there's the Black Madonnas who hold massive Venus energy. There's like, there's, and you know, and there's just so many stories throughout history. And this is what, you know, I talk about it in the book, I know, but it's like these stories have all been told to us about who Venus is, how she's, how she should show up as a representation of the mother, like you say, and that should be, should, inverted commas,

should be somebody that, yeah, self-sacrificing, but puts everybody else's needs. Now you have to forget about your needs because you're birthing a baby. No. Like, you're in your full creative power. Like, no wonder you're doing this at the same time. It makes total sense. It makes total sense. And also, it feels like often we're told

that we can go from the good girl archetype into the mother. Those are like the safe lanes. And in the ways that it's... I just did a solo podcast yesterday because it was just more for my own cathartic release. But it was about like very subtle ways that your people treat you when you're pregnant. They mean well, but it does, it's been, yeah, it's like, I'll give you some examples because they're so tiny, but it's like I went, so I'm really struggling with

pregnancy insomnia. Whether it's pregnancy insomnia, I don't know, but I've heard theories that it's to do with, like, your body preparing for when the baby comes and you're gonna be up through the night. So it's like that. There's also the fact that I need the loo, like, every five minutes. But I went to the chemist and I said, look, I really need something for my sleep.

And he looked at me and saw I was pregnant. I was like, I'm pregnant, so I know, like, I'm sure there's certain things I can't take. And he's like, you can't take anything. You can't take anything. And he literally, like, treated me like I was a leper or something. Because he was, and it was from a place of, he didn't want to get in trouble.

He didn't want, you know, to say anything he couldn't say. But he was, I was like, is there anything natural? Like, even like laughing? And he was like, no, nothing. You know, it might haunt the baby like nothing. And was literally like, it made me feel really uncomfortable because it was... And all the languages around like, protecting the baby. Are you looking after yourself to look after the baby?

For sure. And whilst I know that everyone means well, it's subtly just preparing you to be in that self-sacrificing role. You know, it's like, I'm eating what I'm eating for the baby. I'm doing what I'm doing for the baby. I'm going to these classes for the baby. And I get that. I'm not devaluing that. But there's no language around like, very few people.

Luckily, I have a network of wonderful women that are like, you're gonna be going into this new, like, creative juice, energy. Thankfully I have that, but I know that most people don't. And so you just kind of are like slowly and subtly put into this bracket and then it only gets worse. You know? And so I feel like, yeah, maybe the timing of doing this series, because I'm really trying to find language and examples and metaphors and archetypes

that give me something to hold on to. You know? And so I think that this is why. But you said about earlier, like about, oh, I feel like a vessel. And I'm like, I actually say like a Venusian vessel is a beautiful, fecund, fertile human who is like wanting to be full up. And like you are literally filling up with life. And that life is your creative force in action. Yeah. And I feel like that's the pieces we have to remember.

Like, it's a one example of your current creative energy. In motion. In motion, exactly. And another thing that I've noticed, because I know you were just speaking about how we're sold these stories that, you know, fit into certain boxes. But throughout my pregnancy, whether it's the hormones, whether it's the tiredness,

but I have felt this, like, ancient rage. I mean, I've talked to Adam now, seriously. He's like, don't talk to me. He's like, not me, I'm not all dudes, all right. But I've actually found it really empowering and surprising, because I'm like, oh, this feels old. Yeah. But, like, it feels necessary and I actually enjoy it. SHANNON Yes, good.

But it's almost a permission slip, isn't it? Like, I think we don't have the means, we don't have the understanding. It's like during the Venus cycle, when you go into the underworld, that's where most of us have this capacity. We also have an opportunity to meet that rage. We have this opportunity to meet ourselves in the darkness

and go like, who am I here? And the fact that you get to witness it through this, like I say, it's not... Yes, it's a permission slip, but it's almost like, uh, something you can't control, because... Yeah, it's because you are meant to be experiencing it so that you know when you do birth that beautiful life into the world,

you know why, you know that this is bigger. Like, there's like entire lineages of women that have gone before and are yet to come. And you're tapping into something way bigger when you recognize that rage. It's like a bigger story. But I think that's something that a lot of women relate to is that they can't access their rage or their anger. What aspects of Venus, from your book and discovery, can help us really tap into that more, the underworld, the sort of more shadowy sides that are equally sort of poetic

and beautiful, but perhaps not brought into the forefront of stories? Because no one wants the gnarly bit of Venus. Like, no one wants to recognize it. What? Because it's too powerful? Well, of course. Like, the darkness that we've all been taught to be afraid of is always where our power resides. Like, they literally put our power in the dark,

and then they've taught us all to be afraid of the dark. That's what they've done. And so, like, we're like Pandora at the moment going, oh, okay, what's in there? What's in there? Open the box. Yeah, I'm gonna open the fricking box. It's quite exciting to open the box. Or even if you go back to the story of Adam and Eve, you know, it's like, oh, she was the darn full of humanity.

And then we all get gifted an Eve stain, which is like what you were saying about the good girl. It's like, oh, in order to be good, we now have to, we've got to, like, we've got this, like, we literally got the Eve stain, so we spend the rest of our life trying to get back to being good. Like, can you, can we come back in the garden?

Like, no, we're the freaking gardeners. Like, I am the garden. I don't get, you don't get to, like, let me in. It's my garden. But I think in terms of the, in terms of the rage and the Venus, like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's the warrior energy. So I always see that for that descent, that morning star Venus, as this real opportunity to witness ourselves.

And that's what I mean about the stripping back. Like you start seeing yourself. If you work with the cycle, you can start seeing yourself and going, I don't like that bit of me. I don't like that bit of me. I don't like that bit of it. Why don't I, why am I not voicing the thing that I'm actually feeling? Like, what's that about? And then it gets to a society. So it starts here,

then it'll start, like, you'll look into the community, and then you'll look, like, to the collective and be like, what's going on here? And then when we do go to that 90-day phase in the underworld, which is like in, you know, seven and a half-ish, kind of months into the Venus cycle, it's where in the myth of Inanna,

she went to meet her, what was perceived as her dark sister, right, Erishkigal. But actually, it's just a... It's the part of ourself that we've kept hidden. That we deny. That we deny or that has been hidden from us or... And so we do have the opportunity, if we want to, like to hold the mirror up there, you know, the mirror's obsidian there, right?

It's dark and it's dark for a reason so that we really have to be with ourselves. Because you're not seeing with your eyes. You're feeling a deeper kind of energy or frequency of like what this Venus means. And that's what I love about it, because there is so many more versions than we've been sold. It's up to us. And it's going to be like through the work that you're doing, through the books that I've written, like to witness what all of those versions possibly could be. And that's really exciting to me, is that they are, like, way more than these two

that we've been sold, mainly by dudes. And how do we start reclaiming that aspect of ourselves just day to day? And so, if we do follow this 19-month cycle that comes in the bigger kind of eight-year cycle, we have these like little 19-month sort of vignettes, you could say, where we have the opportunity to work with the astrological sign, so that when you do go into the darkness, when you have this other seven-and-a-half kind of months

on the ascent when she's evening star, so when she's a warrior energy. She's very, you know, you can archetype, you can look at all the warrior archetypes for the kind of descent. And then the Ascent is this like, Empress energy. And for me, it's like this really known, known, this is who I am now. And it's almost like then, on the daily,

that's kind of what I felt is that maybe I've been working on a bigger Venus scale, but since my Venus return on that time I went to Paris, from then on, it's been like, only Empress energy here, thank you. Not really interested in, like, the stories you want to tell me about me. I'm not interested. I'm creating this reality. That's how this is gonna roll. Which is, like, you know, it's a bit potentially tropean,

like, I'm manifesting my experience, and it's, like, way deeper than that. It's much more, like, if it feels right in this body, if I trust this one enough, and I think that's what it comes down to, is practicing self-trust. if it feels right in this body, if I trust this one enough, and I think that's what it comes down to, is practicing self-trust. Like you...

SHAREEE KEEPER Yeah, I think a lot of us don't have. SHAREEE KEEPER We don't know how. Like, why would you trust this one when you're told that you were told in a pharmacist? Like, don't take this, don't take that. SHAREEE KEEPER Yeah. I mean, the rules around pregnancy, oh my goodness. SHAREEE KEEPER Yeah, that's a whole different ball game.

SHAREEE KEEPER It's a whole different thing, but again, it's a subtle, but it's like, the way I look at it, I know what's right for me, because I feel it. Yeah. But you're not taught to trust that. And again, pregnancy and mama and like, pre-mama-hood, mama-hood, post-mama-hood,

all of that is this very sacred, magical, potent, powerful time. But actually, we've stripped it. We've sterilized it. Yeah, it's so sterilized in the sense that you can't, like... You'll be told what to do. I mean, of course, we don't live in community in the way we used to. Like, we don't have the elders, the mamas,

to kind of show us the way in which they may have, in the way they used to. Like, we don't have the elders, the mamas, to kind of show us the way in which they may have lived, in the way they used to. So I get it. Because correct me if I'm wrong, but midwives and sort of not dissimilar from witches. Well, they could, it's interchangeable. Like an interchangeable word almost in some, you know, at some points in history. But I mean, if we look at today, it's like a very, you know, hospitals. There's nothing... We would have gone to the witch, the healer, whatever terminology you wanted to call her. And, you know, there was a lot more trust

in our intuitive nature as the healer, but also as the woman carrying, you know, life. And there was a lot more trust, and things would be created for you, like herbal blends and things to support you in terms of the sleep is like, is the sleep like pregnancy and insomnia, or is it there's just so much creative energy in you right now,

that it wants to burst through? It wants to be channeled in other areas, and you're like, just hold up, I need to sleep. The girl needs to sleep. SHAREEE KEEPER Yeah. Maybe. That's definitely been like a lot more ideas coming. Yeah. But then I also understand...

We'd like some sleep. SHAREEE KEEPER We'd like some sleep. No, I get it. SHAREEE KEEPER I'm very tired. SHAREEE KEEPER Tired, all right. But like, as long as you are, and again, right, this is a potent time, so just write them down. You haven't got to act on them all.

Mm-hmm. Right? Making a baby is plenty enough. It's plenty enough, and I really don't ever want to put any pressure on anyone else to be like, oh, I'm pregnant and I've got to create entire realities and I've got to create, like... That's kind of how I feel. It's kind of like...

But there is that... But what I'm saying is that's the energy of it. So of course, that's what's gonna come up in you because it's almost like you wanna create the right environment. And by right, I mean the most like yummy, delicious environment for that beautiful baby to be born into. So there is that too.

So of course you want to be creating other things. And there's also, like, plenty of creativity for you. Like, there's also plenty that wants to be created for you so that you don't forget. Exactly. And I think that's the important bit, like, you know, in all we're talking about, is like, we have to remember that you have to be nourished.

Yeah, it will help a baby, I'm sure, but you have to stay nourished as that beautiful vessel of creative force. Yeah, you can't pour from an empty cup. Facts. How do you think, like, from your work with a lot of women, would you notice anything that is kind of... in society of how we disregard certain aspects of ourselves

or find it hard to reclaim parts of ourselves? Is there certain themes that are quite prevailing? I think, well, we've touched on it already, but the main one is that we don't think we know. We don't think we know. So we'll go outside ourselves for the answers, for any answer. Like, we'll Google this, we'll search for this,

we'll trust this person on social media, we'll trust this person on TikTok. Oh, that person went to see this person. They'll know that person's got a thing. I'll take that. Because we are, like, cra... We are starving, like, hungry for nourishment. Like, ravenous for... But for this... But that's why this Venusian energy is so important, because it's for all the things that Venus represents.

We want to be full up. We want to be sourced. We want to be doing the things that make us feel yummy, yet we're not doing those. We're doing the exact opposite of those, because we've been told it's really freaking selfish to do those things. Like, what? You're gonna... You're gonna just go to the cinema on a Thursday afternoon?

Because you want to go and see a movie? Like, no, you've got things to do. Like, what things? Oh, things that serve other people. Oh, right, okay. And we'll tell you that you're very selfish and doing that would be an indulgence versus a necessity, which is like, if I'm full up, everyone benefits. Which is what Venus wants for us. She wants us to be living this gorgeous, yummy...

Like, you know, the subheading of the book is like a sensual love affair with life. Like, we want to be in collaboration with Venus, co-creating this gorgeous, most sensual, touchy-feely, like, velveteen yumminess of a life. So that we trust ourselves more. But we can't do any of those things if we're burnt out, if we're looking everywhere else apart from in here.

But we're not taught to trust ourselves. We're not taught to trust our intuition. We're not taught to like, oh, this is happening in my body. Let's just sit with it for a minute and feel what that means to me, instead of being like, okay, this is happening in my body. Let's just sit with it for a minute and feel what that means to me. Instead of being like, okay, what is that? Can you put me into the doctor?

I don't know what this is, I'm having a heart attack. You know, it's like, and again, if you think you're having a heart attack, please deal with that accordingly. But like, what I mean is if you, we don't take the time to trust, like to trust ourselves and it's time. And I really believe that's why I love the cyclical nature of all things, whether it's the moon, whether it's the Saturn, whether it's the Venus. But specifically for Venus is that she does give us this roomy kind of feminine cycle. And there's cycles within cycles with Venus, which gives us like a bigger kind of picture,

that we have this eight-year picture, but then that can come down to like the five times that Venus and the Earth and the Sun kind of collaborate and make these beautiful like little points in the sky, which then create a wild rose or a pentagram, whatever you want to refer to it as. Yeah, I love that in the book, because obviously you're referencing

the wild roses a lot. Is that what that is connected with? Well, for me, so this is what's happened for me, is that the creativity part is that it's felt like there are women and not necessarily goddesses, although they definitely make an appearance, but these are women that have existed. although they definitely make an appearance, but these are women that have existed. Whether in, like, Anais Nin, like, Josephine Baker.

Women, and these are women that have shown up for me, that hold this frequency. That almost, there's a... What I refer to as the Wild Roses have become, like, my girl gang, almost, of women throughout history who are showing up to show me that there is a Venusian way to do this. Like you were saying about finding the archetypes,

finding the versions of it. For me, they're mostly they're literary and they're not good girls. What I need is... And it's gonna be different for all of us, right? But for the women that I've connected with specifically, and I share every Saturday, and every month on a Saturday, I do Saturday Club, which is a salon, like a French salon where, like, we all gather and we meet,

and it features one of these wild roses. But for me, they've been literary women who create, but like on their terms, and who have had like bad, bad reps as well. Like, you know, this isn't the done thing, it isn't done this way and... SHANNON-KATESHIA Yeah. And I just think we need some of that back.

For me, I needed to remember. And for each of us, we'll have a different set of wild roses because, like, the need might be different. Like, there might be, like, people that have taken, you know, taken the path in a different way, but it is all of a Venusian path. You know, and it's a... And so when I talk about a Venusian path, it's not one path, it's that frequency.

And it's the frequency of love, but it's the frequency of creation. Like back to the matriarchal kind of creation, where you remember like, oh, when they're talking about manifesting, actually, like, I have this capacity, if I trust my intuition, if I trust my body, I have, I know that if I slow down,

and I savor every, like, taste of the favorites, of the thing I love, and, like, drink out of a beautiful cup that feels, like, yummy, then I then become a magnet for more of that. Mm-hmm. Right? And that's like, and like, who wouldn't want that? Yeah. I actually just wanted to, because I had an experience recently

where me and Tom went to Dubai. And I actually felt like when I was there, I was in that energy a lot more. Because I guess as a place, it's quite... One thing I definitely noticed that I could compare to London is, like, if I walk through a door... Let's say a man was walking towards me, he walked through the door, I'm then going through the door.

Even if he's already walked through, he'll go back, open the door, and I'll walk through. That happened wherever I went, no matter where the man was from. And it made me feel really, like, in this feminine energy of just being looked after. And it was almost like I could really notice it. And then when I came back to London,

and I'm pregnant, like, beyond the tube, and like no one even acknowledges that I'm pregnant. And I was like, wow. Because I get it, everyone's like kind of in this like rat racey struggle. They're not even noticing. And then also, like, I got off the tube, and there was this poor woman, like, with a pram, like, trying to pull it up this thing.

And I was like, oh, my God, let me help you. So, like, you got this pregnant woman helping this new mom. And she was like, thank you so much. No one helped me. And I was like, wow. Because, you know, you've got to also pay attention to the society that you live in.

The ecosystem, absolutely. Yeah. And if that's not, and I feel, because we live in this very capitalistic world that is like, you know, drive, drive, drive, results, succeed at whatever cost. And that's what I meant when I said like, I find I meet a lot of women that are like,

really being out of alignment with their natural essence. And you can see it, you can see and feel the strain. But to go back to the Dubai thing, I was really getting into this energy of like, I was working, but I was just doing like, I wanted to, you know, going to these really nice lunches. I was being really bougie, to be honest. But I was like, I actually love this so much. My boyfriend was at work, so I was just like, going for these lunches, like, I'd have my book, I'd be taking my time.

And then actually, I would go to this coffee shop that I really like to do my work. So, I just quite like having like a space that was just where I'd work, and then I'd kind of go off and do my other thing. And this guy walked in, I looked up and I was like, I know him, I've met him in London like a couple of of times. Anyway, he was in a meeting with another guy, and they ended up coming and they walked around the whole thing,

and there was a spare seat right next to me, and they came and sat right next to me. Then he went over and was like, ''Hagg, how you doing?'' We started talking. Then he introduced me to the guy that he was with who just moved from London to Dubai with his family. And to kind of cut a long story short, like he works in the app space. And then we ended up exchanging details, like, now we're creating an app together. It was just one of those things. It was just like,

how did that just happen? CHARLEYYESH TONGELOBINI Yeah, and you should check your Venus cartography for that as well. Yeah, that's true. Because that sounds like a very like Venusian situation. Yeah, because also we are planning on spending more time out there. And so one of the things for me was like, what am I going to be doing out here? And how does this make sense? And then it's just like, in case, I was like, okay, thank you. But that is, so you were talking about how you're witnessing or you've experienced and, you know,

you've witnessed in other women, like, this out of alignment energy. And it's like that... To push. Yeah, to push. And it's not... It's none of our fault. And I have to be really clear on that. It's... But what Venus is brilliant at is harmonizing. And what happened there sounds like just this delicious, like, harmonization of your experience.

It's like everything moved into place. Work happened and it felt good. You met the right people because you had made choices that served you. And also from a place of like, I want to go and have my coffee today. Exactly. Where do I want to and have my coffee today? Exactly. Where do I wanna go and enjoy working?

More choice. Yeah. Whereas I feel like most people most of the time, cause it, like, I know probably some people listening to this is like, oh, well, very, you know, very indulgent or whatever. But I guess the point we're trying to make is if you allow yourself to indulge a little,

it doesn't mean that you're, like, not doing anything. ANNE-MARIE SILVERMAN-PATTONS-PETERSON And we don't have to go to Dubai to do that, although if you are called, you absolutely should. But that could be waking up, making a coffee in your most beautiful cup and, like, journaling for an hour. Like, before you go about the day, because you'll go about the day differently

if you make a choice that serves you versus- MS. We did touch though on environment and- MS. Yes. MS. Because I know Paris serves like a real purpose for you in terms of this kind of energy. But how important is that for people to be able to really tap into? Because what if someone's listening to this thinking like, well, my environment does not serve that at all. Does that mean I have to move? What if I can't move? You know, what if I can't...

SHAREEE KKONAKA Well, for me, I can't go to Paris every week, so therefore, like, I bring Paris to me. Like, I will buy a cross on. I will, like, on a Sunday morning, like, it's non-negotiable, right? Like, and I will spend an hour watching, like... I'm watching videos of people walking around Paris because it fills me up. If I can't be there, I love watching it.

So it's perfect. And everyone is served. I think people love watching those videos of Paris because it is so Venetian and indulgent and beautiful. And for me, it feels like the hub for many reasons. And so when I talk about the wild roses, it becomes that sort. It's become like a lot of the women that I speak to throughout history in regards to the wild roses. And just to say, is it fictitious, is it real

when I talk about the wild roses being this Venetian kind of, like, through line of women? Both. Like, it's both. You know, I'm writing a fiction series about these women. And it's very real, you know, as well. Like, and this is what I mean about the Venus energy, it's how it makes you feel. That's why it's valid.

No, exactly. No one gets to tell you what's real and what's not. No one needs to source, like, their sources. Like, I'm the frickin' source of that. Thank you very much. And I'll, I can, and you can choose to interact with it if it feels good. Right, but going back to your ask about the, do we need to be, like... Ideally, in a way, you know, we would get to choose.

Now, if you are in a position where you can find out your cartography, which you can do for free, like if you know where your Venus line runs through, there'll be some points in the world, and you can, you know, you can do it online for free, where your Venus line shows up, and there'll be locations that you could go to, but you don't have to go there. There are locations that it just turned out for me

that my Venus line runs right through France. That Venus, and so that's Paris, and then... So I just made it a little adventure that I then went to all these places on my Venus line and found these amazing women that were all in these locations, and it became like a big adventure for me. It's become like a bigger project for me, creative project for me.

And it's exciting. And it feels like you're up enough to come back and then do all the creative work around it. Exactly. But do I need to, can I be there all the time? No. So you get postcards, you buy postcards from there, you pin them up, like you connect in when I was, when I sit down to write, like I'll, like open my space by, you know, lighting a candle,

creating a little Venus altar, you know? And we can all find different ways in which to do that. Like, yes, there's these big, beautiful... And she loves the big, beautiful gesture, Venus. Like, that's part of her jam. Like, she loves... So if you're called to do that, and the very beautiful, little, minute, gorgeous things that you can do for yourself each day. She also loves those.

SHAREEI NGOLAEIKA And prioritizing those. SHAREEI NGOLAEIKA And priority, like they can't be negotiable. They are literally non-negotiable. They have to be yours and hers. Like it's a co-collaboration. Like, what is gonna make me feel so good today, even if I have to go and do X, Y, and Z, even if I have to get on the tube,

even if I have to go and do X, Y, and Z, even if I have to get on the tube, even if I have to go and do all of these things, what can I do for myself before I do that? And what can I do for myself? And really savor it. Yeah, like, slow all the way down and enjoy it. If you have to get up and, you know, and if that is like a green juice and a, you know, a fitness thing, good, good for you. And if it's not, I love that for you. And if it's not, then there's like a million other ways.

Like, it doesn't have to be what you're showing on TikTok, for instance. Like, it can be, like, and I really want it to, you know, for me, I really want to encourage women to explore what that is for them. Like, whether it's like buying watercolors and also even like, and they sound like very kind of twee, women-y like, stereotypes, but actually the weaving of sewing is such a remembrance to our body

that the stories can unfold as we do these things that we previously have been told, like, you know, that means you're a housewife if you do the X, Y, and Z. And it's like, actually, these can be golden little versions of things to save that. I think that's a strong one that's like, that's housewifey. Or for me, I often feel it's like that's, you're not working. You're not working hard enough.

You know, even if I... I just love going to my favorite coffee shop and then going and doing a yoga class, like, that really does it for me. In a very specific face. Yeah, and you know it as well. Yeah, exactly, you know that. But then I often sometimes, like, I get this thing of like,

I should... Right. But that's the whole point, right? This is how it's, this is the program in and that societal spell is so strong. It really is. But we are stronger. And that's why we are creating all the things we're creating. I get it too.

You know, I'm a writer. Like, I've been writing for 20 years. And still, to sit down and write fiction, because I write things that women, that power women up. This is, what, you're just writing a little fiction book. That's how it feels. It's absolutely not. And no disrespect to people that do it, because it's really hard. But like actually, like the story that I've been fed,

that that's not real work, versus the other kind of writing you do. It's like, and you know, and that can go down to making art. You know, I'm an artist too. And it's like, I have to push myself to do that. I have to be like, get the pens and paper out and leave them out. And it's all right for this to be there. It's all okay.

Yeah, it's all okay. It's all okay. What about the sort of polarity between the masculine and the feminine as it relates to Venus? Hmm. What do we mean? Well, is it true in thinking that, you know, ideally, we want to be leading from the Venus energy and that men are more from Mars?

Which I know, you know, sounds like stereotypical. I know, and I think it's a great story. It's a great story we've been told. And we also know that if you go so far into the feminine, like if I lived on a Venus line, right, if I lived on that Venus line in France, I would do nothing. Nothing would get done. I would spend all my money on very frivolous stuff. Like I'd have so many beautiful things. Like, when I'm at those places,

the things that I feel like I need. Like, so, I mean, you've got to remember, there is a... SHANNON It's a balance. can easily take us into indulgence and debauchery and all of that stuff too. And again, no judgment as to where that balance is, but she's a harmonizer.

Like, let's just keep coming back to the fact that she harmonizes. And so what we're looking for always is, most of us don't access that Venus energy. Or if we do, we access a story of it. We access a version of it that we've been told and sold more predominantly. Like what?

Like, okay, so Venus means I have... Like, Venus means a beauty routine. Venus means a certain aesthetic. Venus means that I should look a certain way. And so... And Venus could mean sex. It could mean like that's how... But not sensuality. Right, and that's the bit that gets missed between these polarities, is that actually in the middle,

there's this gorgeous possibility of sensuality, which we get when we do savor, which we get when we do slow down, which we get when we learn to receive and trust ourselves, and instead of giving all of our energy out. And so that's the harmonization I think we're looking for. And I think the planets are great for showing us that. Like, we could look to Mars as the masculine,

but ultimately Mars is action, right? It wants us to... To put some of that Venusian magic and feminine frequency of love, and we can then combine the two, and amazing things will happen. Whereas there's a potentiality if we only stay in that Venusian yumminess,

that we get so slow that nothing happens. Would it not be fair to say that as a collective that we have been probably too heavily in the masculine and the building and the action, and we need to kind of harmonize? Absolutely. And do you think that's happening? I think, yeah, I think so. That's why we're doing the work we're doing.

And I think the spell, and I will keep referring to it as a societal spell, that has been placed upon us, is old. Which means it's very entrenched. It's generational. It's like, you know, it'll be mamas telling mamas how to be mamas. But based on their experience, but if their experience hasn't been a good one, then those mamas are gonna, you know,

gonna take that story, for instance. So do I think that we have been? Yeah. And I think because it serves the bigger... The spell is strong because it serves the kind of capital, like, late stage capitalism, right? It serves that if we keep hustling, if we keep pushing ourselves, if we keep striving to do, do, do, to have all the things, but to know we have to work really hard to get all the things, then it serves the kind of bigger spell.

Whereas actually, if we slow down and we do become these beautiful, like you were in Dubai, that's like the absolute kind of epitome of Venusian energy. It's like, I will slow down, things will come to me, I will make choices that serve me. And then everyone wins. Everyone gets the most glorious version of you. And who benefits from that? You, but not a society that needs you to go out

and do X, Y, and Z. Not a society that needs you to buy things to make yourself feel better because... Wait, you've realized that you're beautiful. You've realized that you're a mother-loving kind of... Creatrix of life. Yeah, that you don't need more makeup or... Yeah, I mean, and if you do want it, that's a choice.

It's a very... And I think that's the... I think that's the bit people can get a little bit confused with because, like, somebody, you know, it's not about not wanting to be, I love stuff. Like, I love good stationery, I love good makeup, I love perfume. Very Venusian things. And that's me. That's my Venusian story. And...

That's you being told you need it for your... Yeah, that's me making choices about what I want to have in my world to make it more beautiful. Mm-hmm. That's me on my terms. And I think that's the only thing, is just to recognize it, and that's the harmonization, is the recognition of that's what's happening.

Now I get to make a choice. Because all we're ever wanting to do is making sure everyone has the ability and the capacity to make good choices on their terms. And I think that's what this work does, and working with Venus is about going, oh, okay, this is what it feels like. What do I want based on what I feel?

Versus like, oh, I need to have X, Y, and Z because I read this book. Or this man says that this is great for my hormones. Like, okay, I'm not gonna listen to a dude about my hormones, thank you very much. But that's me. SHAREEA No, I get it. And so where can people, like obviously they can get the book,

but where would you say people begin if they feel really disconnected with the side of themselves? What's the starting point? Hmm. Well, I think... It is the tuning in daily to your body. Like, so before, the world can get you. Don't pick the phone up, right? Don't pick, leave the phone alone.

Just leave the phone. And just have a little chat with yourself first and foremost. Like, come into your body. Like, I always say, like, come in, come down. Like, be with your heart, be with your belly. And just ask, like, what do we need today? What do we want to feel? Like, what are we currently feeling?

And what do we want to feel? And for some, that might be they want to journal that out. For some, that might just be meditating. For some, they might want to make a piece of art, like, based on that feeling. But like 20 minutes before you let the world in is your opportunity to kind of just tap into something ancient, but also your creative power.

Because creative power is this Venusian power, and this Venusian power is my energy, which is this love. Like, massive, beautiful love. Right? And this is what we're looking for, it's like self-love, first and foremost. Like, then we can love other people, and then hopefully then people could see a,

you know, a woman pushing a baby on a tube and want to help them because they've got the capacity, their hearts are bigger. Yeah. Because I think that's what it is. Like, we're not blaming people for being on these, these like hamster wheels. People just simply haven't got the capacity. And so we have to...

Like, when I talk about self-sorcery, which is the magic that came out of Venus for me, which is this practice of filling ourselves all the way up, like becoming women who are full of it. Again, we are gonna take back all of the things that were said against us, like, oh, she's so full of it. Yeah, you better believe. Who else am I gonna be full of? Like, I's so full of it. Yeah, you better believe. Who else am I gonna be full of?

Like, I wanna be full of me. I wanna be full up. I wanna be overspilling. I want there to be so much that people can, can, like, feast on the overflow. Like, you're not taking from me. And I think that's, like, what we're looking to do. But that's, you know, we have to get stretchy for that to happen. For me, that's become a process, like I say, of self-sorcery, which is daily tending to self in a world that,

where you're told that's selfish and indulgent. Daily choices that are for you first and foremost, before your family, before your children, before your loved ones. Like practicing that and just like like, letting there be... Because then it gets stretchy. Then you can get stretchy with that. And then, like I say, then hopefully you are on a tube station

and you witness someone struggling and you want to help. Because you've got so much capacity, yeah. Thank you so much, Lisa, for coming in and sharing your wisdom. I'm super excited that you're gonna be helping with the course as well. Oh, wait. Thank you for much, Lisa, for coming in and sharing your wisdom. I'm super excited that you're going to be helping with the course as well. Oh, thank you for having me. For allowing us to tune into this frequency and energy. I'm super excited for it. Thank you so much for having me. If you enjoyed this episode, I highly suggest checking out Lisa's book Venus.

Venus, a sacred path, a feminine frequency, essential love affair with life. I absolutely love that. And then of course we have the Letters to Venus course. It is not too late to sign up if you guys want to take part and really get a better understanding of Venus in your chart, your own dating dynamics, the patterns that you keep repeating and really help yourself heal so that you can attract into your life what you truly desire. I will put a link in the show notes if you guys want to take part

and thank you so much for listening as always remember you are not alone goodbye