Saturn Returns with Caggie - Rewiring Your Mind: Maya Raichoora on Mental Fitness & Visualisation

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

In the first episode of Season 11, Caggie welcomes Maya Raichoora - an innovative mental fitness expert and author of Visualise. Maya turned her personal health struggles into a groundbreaking approach to mental resilience, inspiring countless others to harness the power of the mind. At just 15, Maya was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, a life-altering condition that set her on a journey of deep self-exploration. Once a professional badminton player, she now stands at the forefront of mental fitness, proving that even our greatest challenges can become the foundation for empowerment and transformation. Topics Covered in This Episode: 🌟 Navigating personal health crises and emotional healing 🌟 The mind-body connection and its role in recovery 🌟 Mental fitness vs. traditional mental health approaches 🌟 The power of visualisation and mental training techniques 🌟 Overcoming limiting beliefs and self-doubt 🌟 Emotional resilience strategies for personal growth 🌟 The importance of self-awareness and self-compassion If you’ve ever felt stuck, overwhelmed, or as if your mind is holding you back, this episode is your roadmap to inner strength. Maya’s raw and inspiring story demonstrates that your biggest struggles can lead to your most profound transformation. Tune in to learn how to train your mind like a champion, one thought at a time. — Thank you to our sponsor, Naturalmat, for making this episode possible! Better sleep starts naturally ☁️ Naturalmat’s handcrafted, organic mattresses and bedding are good for you, your family, and the planet. Experience the comfort of sustainable sleep at naturalmat.co.uk, or visit one of their showrooms! If you enjoyed this conversation, don’t forget to follow Saturn Returns for more episodes exploring wellness, spirituality, and personal development. Share this episode with someone who could use a little extra joy in their life, or take a moment to comment and share your thoughts. Your feedback means so much and helps us reach more listeners! Discover more from Saturn Returns: 🪐 Instagram, YouTube and TikTok 🪐 Order the Saturn Returns book: Click here 🪐 Join our community newsletter: Sign up here 🪐 Explore all things Saturn Returns: Visit our website 🪐Follow Caggie on Instagram: @caggiesworld

Before we dive into today's episode, I want to take a moment to talk about something that's really, really important to me. Sleep. We all know how crucial a good night's rest is, but have you ever thought about how your sleep environment affects both your health and the planet? That is where Naturalmat comes in. From the very beginning, they prioritise sustainability by using certified organic materials like locally sourced organic wool. Their mattresses and bedding aren't just better for you, they're better for the environment too. And everything is handmade with care and craftsmanship in their Devon workshop. So if you want to improve your sleep while making a positive impact on the planet, I highly recommend visiting naturalmap.co.uk. Heading to one of their showrooms, trust me, switching to a natural, sustainable sleep setup makes all the difference. Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kage Dunlop. This is a podcast that

aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Oh my goodness, we are on season 11, which is such an achievement. Thank you all for those that have listened from the beginning. Thank you to those that have just discovered us for keeping the podcast going. It is truly such a joy to be able to say that we have done 11 seasons of this show. And now to kickstart the season, I am joined by the brilliant Maya Ritura, a leading voice in the world of mental fitness,

co-founder of Remind, and a true force in redefining how we relate to our minds. In a world that often focuses on physical appearance and outer success, Maya invites us to turn inward. Her work is very much rooted in the belief that the mind, just like the body, requires consistent care, training and compassion. And in this conversation, we dive deep

into what it truly means to be mentally fit. We discuss the turning points that led her here today. Now, Maya shares her personal story, which when I first met Maya, I was so inspired by. She's incredibly young. And I say that because it's astounding how smart and accomplished and driven she is for how young she is. I mean, I don't even want to think what I was doing

and how I was behaving when I was her age. But it's a lot to do with this health crisis that she experienced when she was younger that really turned her life upside down. And she tells the story in this episode. And it is hugely inspiring because it was during this time where she began to explore alternative practices and what she uncovered not only transformed her own healing, but laid the foundation for the mission she's now leading,

to empower people with tools to proactively strengthen their mental and emotional health. So this episode really invites you to strengthen the relationship that you have with your own mind. I know sometimes it can feel like a battlefield, but I hope that this conversation inspires you to see it as a space of possibility, of growth, to know how much you can accomplish when you start to incorporate these practices into your life. So enjoy. My welcome. This feels like your second time here, even though it's actually your first. But we have done an event together. It was incredible. How long ago was that?

Yeah, like nearly a year, which is... Was it only a year? Yeah, yeah. I think it was last year, last June, May. God, and you have just skyrocketed since then. How has that been for you? It's funny, I don't really, I guess I don't really see it like that. I think, I think like I feel, all I can say is I just feel very aligned right now, which is really nice. And I think with all my work, I always lead with that, just the message and helping one person at a time.

And I love that. And obviously, yes, like this year, it's a little bit more, I guess, different with the book and things like that, which I'm excited for. But it's been a massive professional and personal push out of my comfort zone as well, but just embracing it. And before we kind of get into the transition that you've gone through this year, I would love if you could share a little bit of your backstory because it's such a fascinating

and unique one about how you got into the work that you do now. Yeah, do you know, on my way here, the taxi driver was like, oh, so, you know, is your background like neuroscience and psychology? And I was like, oh, so is your background like neuroscience and psychology? And I was like, oh, no, actually, it's life. It's just life experience. And yeah, for me, I think, I guess I grew up in a kind of community and society where everyone was pretty high performing

and high achieving. And culturally as well, I think that was an expectation. And I don't blame that. I actually, I love that it gave me my work ethic and I was surrounded by very intelligent people. And I was also a professional badminton player. So I played for county and then national as well. So you've always had that high achieving.

Yeah, it's like innate in me. You know, like the more more more thing kind of thing. And then yeah, about 15, I kind of just developed some like constipation, just a bit of like urgency when I was going to the loo. But I think, you know, sometimes it happens, you get a stomach bug. And so I went to the doctor and they simply said, you know, maybe there's just a bit of inflammation, take a few suppositories and you'll be good. So I did that. And unfortunately, things just got a bit worse, I'd say. Not just suddenly, it was like this gradual increase

of symptoms and then physical pain as well. Over how long a period? So I'd say like this really was all happening from like December and Jan. So I was just noticing like little things. And you were 15? Yeah, so pretty young as well. But then the next course of action was, you know, take a colonoscopy and just find out what's going on inside.

And so we did that. And that's when they then diagnosed me with ulcerative colitis, which for anyone who doesn't know, it's an inflammatory bowel disease. But you know, the fascinating thing is that today, every half an hour, one person gets diagnosed with either Crohn's or colitis. And that is obviously a huge increase from where it's ever been before. What do you think that's, because I keep hearing about it to be honest, what do you think that's down to? Is it because of our stress levels, our diet,

or is it a combination of all these things? Yeah, so I think chronic illness as a whole, but also yeah, definitely colitis, Crohn's are definitely on the rise in like Western culture. Because yeah, look at our food, everything's in a packet, it's all processed. But then also the suppression of emotions, our lifestyles and you know, this disease particularly is to do with the gut. And your gut is everything. It's everything. And also it's quite under-researched,

just in, oh, it's probably getting a lot better. But in terms of the brain-gut connection and how our emotions kind of stored there in many ways. Yeah, yeah. And you know, the scariest thing was someone saying to you, like, this is incurable. That's the scary thing. Because I think when we have a stomach bug or let's say we've got food poisoning,

like anyone can relate to the fact that it is such a horrible thing to experience. Like temporary. Exactly. You know, it's going to end. I think hearing that, like, this will be the rest of your life and you will feel this pain, you know, pretty frequently. That's where I think for me, will be the rest of your life and you will feel this pain pretty frequently, that's where I think for me it was like, oh, this isn't just a bit of a flu, it's like this is my life changing in some ways.

And it's also something, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's quite hard to predict what sets off, what flares it up. So you're kind of going around being like, okay, well that did it, I can't do that again. And then constantly having to adjust your life and micromanage it in a way. Yeah, and you have so much fear, so much fear.

I remember, you know, even just drinking water or, I once saw online that it was like, if you eat the seeds of fruits, it will flare it. And I'd look at like a strawberry and be like, oh my God, I just can't eat this because of all the seeds. Like, you'd look at everything and just be so scared to even put it into your body. And you were so young. So young, yeah.

But the thing is, and it's not that I regret this, I think I did the best I could at the time. I just experienced so much shame around the entire disease. And that's why I love how open you are at speaking about it because I think it's something that still people, if they struggle with it, they don't want to discuss it. Yeah. And I mean, look, it did take me like six years to actually say it out loud.

Obviously my immediate family knew, but even then they didn't know the details. But I think it's just like, yeah, when you're a woman and you're young and talking about going to the loo or, you know, I find that even just in everyday life, when we've got a stomach bug, we tend to say, oh, I'm just under the weather. We don't actually like to be like, yeah, I find that even just in everyday life, when we've got a stomach bug, we tend to say,

I'm just under the weather. We don't actually like to be like, yeah, I'm literally got, I've got diarrhea, I'm throwing up. We don't say it. It's like more taboo than talking about things like sex or intimacy. And so I remember just going to school, like, wearing these nappies because I'd be having accidents and it would like, you know, I'd feel it, I would smell.

nappies because I'd be having accidents and it would like, you know, I'd feel it, I would smell it was just so dehumanizing, like every day that slowly your self worth, your self confidence, your just what it means to be a woman or femininity, all of that just completely went. And also that I think it's probably the most challenging time because at 15, you've already got enough to deal with in the transition of becoming a woman, of feeling awkward going through adolescence, all the changes that are already occurring and kind of comparing yourself to other people.

Like if you add that into the mix, I can only imagine how difficult that would have been. Yeah, and look, I'll be honest when I say this, like, I was also, like I said, very high achieving. So it went from like, being really feeling at my peak to then losing it all. So I knew what it was like. And I think I really found it hard to, to let go of that because it was just this constant thing of like, I wish I was who I used to be, I wish I was able to do what I used to, I wish I was able to play sport again. It was always just living in the past. And you know what's interesting is I didn't actually change my lifestyle much.

I remember just being in hospital and my only concern was, can I get an A star in my GCSEs or my A levels? Even though I was literally like screaming of pain and on like 40 tablets a day, I still, I like just didn't listen to my body what it was telling me. I just kept going. I kept being like, no, I've got to achieve, I've got to make it worth it somehow. And I would just be there with all my books and my homework and all of that. And I just, that's what I was doing. Still trying to be that high achiever. Now looking back, do you think that there's any connection between that and how it might have affected you physically? Oh my gosh, a hundred percent. between that and how it might have affected you physically?

Oh my gosh, 100%. Because whilst it might have been quite extreme, I think a lot of people can relate to that, pushing themselves beyond their limits and having consequences to that physically. Yeah, and I think, I'll be the first to say, I think it's amazing to go for your potential and go big and dream big. And I'm literally doing that right now. I think where I noticed the physical impact was because

so much of my worth and so much of my happiness and so much of my confidence was tied to the results of it. And I think- It's an important distinction hugely, right? Because now if I look at the goals I go for, I'm not attached. I'm kind of just like, let's have some fun. If I get there, I get there. But really, I'm not like it's not to do with my worth. I don't and that's taken a while to actually train myself. But I think the other part of it where I really see the emotional connection was just the amount of resentment and envy and jealousy I had for everyone around me. That was really dangerous because I think at that age,

and again, we weren't always taught how to do this, I didn't know how to process those emotions. Like, I've never been taught how do you feel anger as a woman or how do you feel envy? I just don't know. Sorry. Exactly. And if you're not feeling it, you are literally storing it. And my body did an amazing job of doing that. It just, it loved it. It like created fire and anger and inflammation in my stomach.

And it was just constant. It was like drop by drop. And, you know, if I look at my life when it was competitive environments in sport or, you know, competing with my friends or even like I'm I'm one of three sisters. And so even from a very young age, I've like I've always thought that I had to fight to get attention. Yeah, to be seen. Exactly. And that kind of came with me. And in all my relationships as well, I found myself in threes, which I thought was really interesting.

Like, I'd always find myself in a triangle, because I got addicted to this competition of, like, winning someone's attention. And now I look at it and I'm like... You know, I was just literally a young girl who was very sensitive, and... I guess just allowed it to all sit in me, which eventually the body will then express what your mind is suppressing.

And that's absolutely why I saw it to an extreme. And looking back, because I know you mentioned how, you know, things like seeds from fruits could set off, how much do you think was actually from food and how much do you think it was triggered by these more emotional experiences? I wanted to share something with you that's made a huge difference in my sleep quality, natural mat. If you're anything like me, you care about what goes into your sleep environment. After all, it's where we spend a third of our lives. That's why I absolutely love Natural Mat's focus on

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Plus everything is handmade with care and attention to detail in their Devon workshop. If you want a sleep experience that's better for you and better for the planet, head over to naturalmat.co.uk or visit one of their showrooms for a healthier, more sustainable night's sleep. So I think everyone is different. For me, like, obviously, I'm not going to sit there and just like eat loads of fried chicken and be like, yeah, this is gonna be great for my body.

Like that's kind of obvious, but I say it's obvious, but actually at the time, you know, again, we were having processed foods, we were just eating like loads of white bread and you think that's good for the gut? No. So I think for me, the thing I've learned is just whole foods. If it's grown, eat it. That's what your body wants. And you think back in like cavemen times, did they have these diseases? No, they didn't. But the emotions for me, yeah, I think played a massive role

because where I saw the most difference in my recovery and me getting better was the work I was doing on my mind and the work I was doing with like emotional release. I think those are the two areas that just allowed me to get my life back. But I'd say the diet and food is also a part that allows me to stay healthy and prevent it in the future. And it's like what Aristotle says, right? Like food is medicine. And I do believe that. And I think it's incredible. Like I think it's amazing how you can strengthen your body and also your mind in that process.

And so what was the turning point for you when you were told you have this thing that's gonna be with you for life and then at such a young age to find the resources and the courage and the strength to actually go, no, I'm gonna find a way of healing myself that was through alternative kind of practices. Like how did you discover those sorts of things at such a young age? Yeah, I wouldn't say there was like one moment where I was like, oh my gosh, everything's

changed. But I think it was definitely, it started with like a seed of hope, I'm going to say. And by hope, I don't mean that I became like super positive. You know, people say like, if you get diagnosed or something, and initially I was really positive. I was like, no, I can do this. But yeah, it broke me in every way possible. So hope, I find, isn't really looking at is it positive is optimistic. It's like, there is a way. That's all I needed to know there is a way. And's all I needed to know. There is a way. And I think for so long, I'd been told by many people, professionals, doctors, et cetera,

that like, unfortunately, this is your only option. And I think that's a very dangerous thing to like internalize. And so it was this particular day where a nurse was in my room and she was like, Maya, you know, if you weren't in this room and everyone had just got their uni results, everyone was going to uni and I'd gotten in but I

couldn't go. And she was like, if you weren't here where would you be? And I was like, wow that's such a rude question because I've been here for like two weeks, haven't walked, you know, I would sometimes have to sleep on the loo because I had no energy to even walk back to my hospital bed and I would sometimes have to sleep on the loo because I had no energy to even walk back to my hospital bed. And I just asked her to leave my room because I just felt so, so hopeless. And then I remember when she left, I closed my eyes. And I kind of just pondered on that question. And the first thing I saw or where I directed my mind was just taking some steps in the hospital hallway. I just wanted to see myself walking. That was it. It wasn't

like anything crazy. It was just like feeling the strength in my legs, like waving out the patients. I just kind of created some movement in my mind. And when I opened my eyes, it was like, hmm, what if I actually could do that? Like, what if maybe I could take some steps and start walking again? So I just kept doing it. I kept like giving my mind this like opportunity to see different possibilities, not just ones where you're stuck in hospital. I even went as far as seeing myself at uni, playing badminton again. Sometimes I'd go like so crazy and like see myself

on stages, which now isn't that crazy, right? And this isn't just like, oh, okay, this is like manifestation. No, I think in that moment, I was simply allowing myself to believe something else. And then when I left uni, I mean, when I left hospital, sorry, I am... Yeah, I was basically like, let me understand what my mind was doing in that situation. And that's where I really entered the world of...

mental training, visualization, mental fitness. But what I will say is it was not an easy journey. That year was so grueling. I had to like face some of the like darkest parts of who I was, my emotions. And you kind of have to go to war with yourself to kind of heal. And so it was tough, but I genuinely can sit here and say it

was so worth it. And I still practice everything I was doing then. I do it today, not just for my health, but also for now, you know, building companies or speaking on stages, still managing my emotions, of course, because we're human. But yeah, I guess I'm very grateful I spent time kind of obsessing over the mind. And it sounds like it wasn't something that's just miraculously, you're like, oh, this is giving me hope and I'm getting great results. Like you said you went to war with yourself. What do you mean? Like, can you give me some examples of what that was like?

Yeah, I guess you have to face patterns and parts of you that are either that you find really familiar and that you are kind of addicted to, or that actually, like, I had a lot of shame about as well. You know, there were some things I had to admit to myself or even like I was mentioning the things like jealousy or envy. Like yeah, I was like deeply in that. Same with some of our like old selves that we hold that, you know, I actually at one

point had to give up my dream of, let's say, like building a company or doing big things. I had to actually just step away and be like, I don't need to do any of that. At the end of the day, health is my biggest thing. Can I just ask, was the jealousy and the envy stuff pre-existed the health stuff? Yeah, but I didn't realize that. I think it's through this. I realized that growing up, I have been such an envious person. Like, because I'd remember, right, I'll give you

a scenario, I'd be on like a badminton court, and I'd lose the game. I actually wouldn't care that I lost, all I would do was hate the other person, because they won. I'd be, I'd like feel it in my body. Like my chest goes like really hot. And what it does is it makes me feel completely worthless. Like a lot of people say envy can really like spur them on to do better. I just didn't. I didn't, I don't understand that. I didn't have that.

So for me, it was like, it just would put me down and I'd feel so small, but it was addictive. It was this like, you know, quite intense emotion that I would always find myself in. just would put me down and I'd feel so small. But it was addictive. It was this like, you know, quite intense emotion that I would always find myself in and I never knew how to handle it. So yes, I think it was completely pre-existing but I never addressed it or dealt with it

because I didn't have to. Until the health issues. Yeah, until that moment to be like, actually Maya, like it's okay. And whether it was ego, and I remember writing so many things in my journal, and sometimes even like talking to the person it happened with. And I just, I'd say, I'm like, I'm really sorry. Or like, tell me about what I was like at this time,

because you kind of have to be really brave and be willing to hear things you don't want to hear. And so that was one aspect of it. I think the other part of going to war with yourself is that I don't think people talk about this enough, but like, when you start unwiring things about you, it can feel very confusing who you are. And you're just in this middle page of like, okay, I'm not who I used to be. I'm also not who I am yet. Like-

I'm not who I wanna become. Yeah, like what are you? Like who are you? You don't know how to like show up actually sometimes. And I found that really difficult because like someone would just say to me, like, how are you? And I'm like, oh my God, I don't know.

And so going to war was also like fighting for myself, which I still do every day. And you do, it costs you a lot of things. It costs me so many friendships. It costs me like, yeah, like parts of me that sometimes I do miss but actually the fact that you can create a version of you or shape you know your identity and your mind and your life in a new way I think makes it worth it to find that peace like you kind of go to war to then find the peace you've got to go through it. Yeah. And yeah, the only way is through. And I do think I do think the inner work, you've got to be brave for you do and bold. And just like lean in, like take the leap.

And even then, once you've taken the leap, then it's like, you know, slow and steady. And that's absolutely fine. But I, I don't think anyone would ever regret doing that or just asking themselves that question of like, who do I want to be? I think that the shame piece is really important to acknowledge though, because often these patterns of behavior or these coping strategies are layered with a lot of shame. And when we start to unwrap them,

we're like, oh God, I didn't know if I want to look at this. And I do find the connection between what can often happen and occur in the body that exacerbates that. And so, you know, for you, it was like highlighting this aspect of you that felt very envious. But I think that everybody has something that they might not be able to like see right now that there's a connection, but it's like something will happen in your life, a situation, an event will occur that kind of brings you to that forefront where you're confronted with that part of yourself that you need to address and heal. And it might be like, I don't know, a victim mentality. I think that's something that I definitely felt.

And then you kind of have to let go of that part of yourself in order to become who you're supposed to be. And I guess that's like one of the hardest transitions in life and like, because of, you know, the podcast centralizing around Saturn return, I think that that's often something that can very much be confrontational in your late twenties, but for you it happened really early.

Not necessarily equipped with the emotional maturity or tools to navigate it. Yeah. And two points on that. Just as you were speaking, everyone experiences envy, right? They do. Um, just as you were speaking, everyone experiences envy, right? They do. Do you know what it really came down to when I realized why I held so much? It comes, it comes to that thing of like, you have two types of emotions, right? You've got the primary emotions, which are things like envy, anger, um, sadness.

These aren't, these are animalistic. We can't always control them. We just, we react. Then you've got your secondary emotions, which is how you feel about the feeling. And this is where I would be so like judgmental and I would criticize myself and I would feel so much shame for feeling the envy.

And I remember I once asked my friend, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling all this envy, like I'm such a bad person. She was like, oh yeah, I feel envy all the time. I'm like, what? But she didn't have any shame around it. She was like, yeah, it's a normal human thing. Genuinely, I was so shocked because all my life,

I have really felt guilty and put myself down for having those kind of like maybe bad thoughts or your body reacts to something. And you're like, maybe bad thoughts or you know, your body reacts to something and you're like, Oh my gosh, you're such a bad person. The thing that changed a lot for me was, I can't control those primary emotions, they're going to come and go. What I can control is those secondary emotions. So I can choose how am I going to feel about the feeling I've just had. And sometimes that might

mean, you know what, yeah, I'm going to accept that I feel that and that's okay. Sometimes it's like, you know what? Cool. I'm going to use this anger and use the energy in another way. And you know, sometimes with sadness or whatever it might be, it's like, cool, I'm just going to sit in the mud there. Even happiness. We actually are very quick to just be like, let's just quickly move on from it. Not really relishing it. Exactly. Because I always have that thing of, what am I missing?

Yeah, like, what's gonna go wrong now? Something really good happens, it's like, why are they trying to screw me over? Exactly, something's coming, right? Something's coming. Exactly. I actually, I see this pattern a lot, where people think, and then you know the whole like,

oh, it comes in threes and then something's gonna go wrong. It's like, no, you have every right to just fully deserve that and enjoy it and just like, you know, believe that you're actually like a lucky person and you get to enjoy it. And I think, I guess this is a question to you as well. I don't know this. I'm thinking about it so much at the moment. Do you have to suffer to go through like that transformation? That is a great question. And my answer is I think I've been brought up in a way that through my family and it's it's not an intentional thing but it's like there's an undertone of if it's not hard, it's not working. Yeah. And perhaps that's because my family's been very academic. I've

always been quite creative. I'm also quite like a free flowing person by nature that's not very linear and things just do happen. Like the best things that have ever happened to me have just happened without planning. And so I'd say that that is something I constantly have to try and untangle myself from of just being like life doesn't have to be hard. Like you don't have to be putting yourself through a lot of stress to achieve. Do you know what I mean? Like there's, I understand the logic of the correlation, but I don't think it's true. And secondly, for the, like, is it, you know, a Saturn return can often be very challenging,

but in a different way, I'd say the first part is more what we inflict on ourselves and the pressure and like, I have to be doing this and I have to be achieving this and I'm not doing enough. And I do struggle with that sometimes. But for the things that actually just happen to you that are out of your control, like what happened to you, I do believe that sometimes that pain is a necessary agent for change

and that crafts us into who we're supposed to become if it wasn't for those experiences, whether it's the heartbreak, the health issues, we don't get to the other side. And it's a lovely idea that we could just philosophize or kind of think about it and be like, Oh, I know who I need to be by studying or observing other people. But I think we all know that it's actually been the most painful experiences that shape us into who we're supposed to become. Yeah. Yeah, and I do agree.

I think, like, it's kind of the truth of it. It's like what, like, you know, the Buddha says that life is suffering, but it is how you respond to it. And it's what you do with the pain. And I started my journal entry like a week ago with this question of like, would you do it all again? And I just like couldn't write anything.

I don't know. I genuinely, I do not know if I do again. I'm so grateful for where I am today. Like I'm so grateful. But the thought of having to do that again, like it scares me. I don't think I would. But that's a really weird like conflict for me.

Cause it's like, you can be so grateful for where you are and I am, But I just, I don't know. I don't know if I would, and I don't know the answer. But I think I, I'm glad I asked myself the question because I think I meet a lot of people who are like, this disease or this experience was the best thing that's ever happened to me. I don't think I'm there yet.

And I don't think I will be. And I'm not gonna push myself to go there either. Well, I guess the beauty is you don't have to. Exactly. And you don't have to go there yet. And I don't think I will be. And I'm not going to push myself to go there either. Well, I guess the beauty is you don't have to. Exactly. And you don't have to go there again. Exactly. And I think the thing I've learned through all of this is, you know, even being in the world of, let's say, now business and trying to, you know, do events, et cetera, it's like, I look at entrepreneurs around me and that whole hustle thing of like,

like you were saying, you have to work so hard and sacrifice so much to then achieve. That is actually the evidence we see in our life. Am I doing that? No. I'm so intentionally avoiding that. I'm actually like, you know, I live my life so much in seasons where you'll either see me in harvest where I am doing a lot of public facing things, things like this, um, a lot of like producing, but then most of the time I'm in hibernation. I'm very introverted on my own near a lake somewhere, just in silence and peace.

And does that mean I'm probably gonna, I don't know, get there slower? Maybe. But do I find that actually things align really gonna, I don't know, get there slower? Maybe. But do I find that actually things align really well and that, you know, the people I do meet are then the right people and that actually I'm going at my pace, working for my body and my mind? Yeah. And that to me is success.

Totally. And also you're enjoying the experience along the way because when people sort of become so sacrificing on that journey to just get to one destination point, it's like, is that ever really gonna feel worth it with all the moments that you missed along the way? Yeah, it's so true. I think one thing in my journey at the moment I'm struggling with is like,

like Kage, my circle is so small. Like, it's probably like a tiny dot at the moment. And that transition has been weird. It's been so weird. Because I wouldn't say I'm lonely in the way that I'm isolating myself. I'd say I'm in a transition of like, who's staying in my life, which is so scary. And I think 20s are just such a mess because you have friends from school, friends from uni, friends that you're meeting. But it's like, to maintain those relationships does require work. But I'm just finding that I can see I'm like holding on to like certain things and relationships because I've got such a strong past with them. But you've outgrown them.

Yeah, but I like, I don't want to admit that I don't know that's just like, it's such a tough. Yeah. But I think everyone experiences that. I describe it as like a sort of self-inflicted exile, like a necessary one where you're kind of like in this void of you no longer connect to the people that you used to. Which of course like we are built for connection, we're part of a tribe.

So even if that's outdated and perhaps it's coping, like you're all behaving in a way that's not really where you're trying to go. So every time you spend time with them, you feel like you're kind of going backwards or you're behaving in a way that's not in integrity with who you truly are. But then to leave that and not know who the people are that are going to surround you next is terrifying. So people kind of stay in that familiar pain. But I do believe that we all have to go through that transition where it's like, there are very few people. But then you learn the value of having those people that truly see you and understand you for who you are, and want to see you thrive is so much more valuable than having, you know, a world of people that just kind of hold you back in a way.

Yeah, and it's like what Robin Sharma says, right? He says that like safety and like things that are familiar, they're kind of seductive. Like they seduce us because we always like just go back to them, not because we want to or because it's right. But it's all we know. Yeah, it's such a seduction and uncertainty. I think so many people are scared of it. If I speak to whether it's even like companies, individuals, whatever, like but what but what if this happens or but I don't know what it's going to look like. But I think this is where like we Yeah, we can't control things that's going to look like. But I think this is where like, we, yeah, we can't control things that are going to happen in life. But I think it comes back to you can control how you respond and who you're going to be like your character is totally in your control,

which is why I think it's so important to spend a lot of time investing in your character, learning about who you are, who you want to be, but also how you can build yourself up. And like, I kind of think of it as like, let's say you had to pay this character every day. Like you would invest in that. You would want them to be the most confident or most healed version of themselves, right? And so in the same way, it's like,

I am done trying to control everything around me. That's not it. If I keep controlling and have power over my thoughts, my emotions and my actions, that is all I can do. And that is doing my best. And therefore from that, great, whatever comes, comes. I'm ready for it. Like you're training the wings rather than focusing on the branch you're sitting on. And I think that's a really important distinction because most of us have grown up really looking externally for that control. And how things look.

Oh yeah, for sure. And even how we look. We care about our bodies and things like that, but go in, go inward. It's such an incredible world in there. And every other person you meet as well, they have their own world in there. So like, let's honor and explore everyone's worlds.

Are an internal universe. Yeah, it's just amazing in there. I think it's so cool. Because also if you can sit with yourself in solitude and feel like you're in good company, I think that's something that people don't really recognize or appreciate as one of the most valuable things through life. It is, but like so many people don't. Or so many people don't have the time to actually do it, slash they know the answer, so they won't even ask themselves the question. Because it's too uncomfortable.

Yeah, and there was that experiment, right, with the electric shocks where they took two groups of men and women, they put them in a room and they said, either sit here for 15 minutes just on your own with your thoughts, or you can electric shock yourself and we'll take you out the room. Now, the women, it was around like 46% of people chose to electric shock themselves, the rest stayed, but for men, we were nearly at 70% of people chose to electric shock themselves, the rest stayed. But for men, we were nearly at 70% of people chose to electric shock themselves.

One guy did it over like 40 times. Yeah. Rather than spend 15 minutes with his thoughts. On his own, yeah. And I think it's that thing, right? You stop and then it all comes, it all comes. But you know what? Let it, just like, let it come, it's there.

And it's like that tsunami sort of thing. If we keep it building up, you're then going to have breakdowns. You're going to have disease, illness. You're not going to be able to connect with people. And so I don't, don't get me wrong. I think sitting on your own and being in solitude isn't, isn't like an easy task. And think about it at school. If you were sitting on your own by a tree somewhere or something, the teacher would probably ring up your parents and be like, oh, you know, Kaggy's kind of been on her own in the playground. Like, she's not really talking to anyone else.

It's considered a problem. It's like, you're the odd one out here. So from a very young age, you're not really encouraged to also spend any time on your own. And then when we get older, we're scared of encouraged to also spend any time on your own. And then when we get older, we're scared of it because of what happens with our mind, right? And so I'd say the first step to this

is just go on a solo date. Just like how you would get to know your partner or a friend and you learn what they like, what they dislike, just go on one for yourself, like a coffee on your own somewhere, even go to the movie on your own. And yeah, it's gonna be uncomfortable. People will be like, oh my God, she got stood up

or that's really lame. It's the best thing ever. It's the best thing. Just spend time with yourself. Because in a world where we are chasing so many likes and comments and external validation from like every single person. Well, now we have infinite ways in which we can keep filling

or sort of temporarily filling that need to be validated and not sit with our thoughts. Like I always look on the tube and notice how when you catch someone starting to think about something and then they're like, get their phone out. It is so true. And it's quite scary. It is, yeah, yeah.

But we're all doing, like myself included, we're all doing it. It's the easiest way and most socially acceptable, unfortunately, way of just numbing out. Yeah, but I think like, I'd say two things here. One, as much as you're numbing out maybe the more difficult thoughts and emotions, you're also numbing out the love, the beauty, the connection. Like I- And the ideas.

Exactly. I can take someone and see that the more they suppress, I bet you they also will barely take time to just watch the sunset or notice that actually- You're numbing everything. Exactly. You numb everything. And I found this interesting where, take alcohol as an example, a lot of us will use, let's say, drink or food to suppress, you know, an emotion.

But we don't realize that we're also suppressing the amazing stuff, the good stuff. And that's the same in our everyday life. So yes, with your phone, technology, et cetera. But I think it's not to say that like, okay, don't do any of it. I think the point is, as long as you are also asking yourself, do I like myself?

I don't mind about self love, all this stuff. Just simply ask, do I like myself? If you do, yay, celebrate it. If you don't, ask yourself, okay, well, what's one small, tiny action or conversation I can have now to maybe improve that relationship? That's it. And that might just be a admission to one of your friends being like, look, I don't really like myself right now. Great. But just prompt yourself with that question. It's so powerful. I'm not asking you to do anything else. Just simply ask yourself, do I like myself? Because it also might be more of a, I don't want to say an easy fix, but something that you can just

adjust immediately. Like what I'm thinking about, do I like myself at the moment? But one thing that I really struggle with and it's got particularly bad at the moment, probably, I don't think pregnancy health, but procrastinating. But it then becomes this thing where I obviously don't like it about myself because it means that I kind of end up almost sabotaging things because I'm not getting back to the important stuff or I'm ruminating and just find it really hard to make decisions. but that's something that I could probably quite easily fix. How can I fix that? Can I use visualization? Yeah, you will. I mean, it's like what I always say, right? The brain and our habits, it's like a puppy, and if we don't train it, it's going to shit, basically.

I think partly, ask yourself, do you need to just give yourself a bit more kindness, compassion? Your hormones are probably also pretty crazy at the moment. But then I also think just go really small. Go for a task, focus on it, complete it. And the more you build up the strength of your... Because what's the opposite of procrastination? Making decisions.

Fine. So start really small to be like, what are small decisions I can make? So I'm building up my competence in that area again. And then the more you start doing it, you'll be able to start making more or bigger decisions, better decisions. So I give yourself that evidence. Yeah. And I just see everything as a skill, like procrastination. When you catch yourself, just be like, OK, do I actually want to be doing this? Or shall I take a step back and maybe choose different? There's a concept I love and it comes from sports psychology,

which is that at any moment, you can choose different. Whether that is every second, choose a different state, choose a different thought. But then let's say, choose a different way you're going to start your morning. Choose a different week. Like, you know, people start their day like, oh, I've had such an awful morning. So that becomes the rest of their day.

Choose different. At any moment, you have the power to choose. So if you notice, yeah, okay, I'm literally just like, chilling, I'm meant to be doing something else. Just ask yourself, right, can I choose different right now? And at least you are giving yourself the chance to make a better decision. And again, if you have to do that five times, go for it. But I think with procrastination, like, yeah, we're all humans that get so distracted in this world.

So I think we have to come back to what can we control? And that is asking yourself that question. And, you know, if you are wanting to focus on something or really make that decision, then yeah, of course, you can use things like mental training or visualization to really just run it in your mind first and mentally rehearse your day or mentally rehearse the task. So you don't like basically stray away. Yeah. Because to sort of really summarize and define like mental fitness, because I know obviously everyone talks about like staying fit at the gym and working out and everything,

but mental fitness is still something I'd say is quite untapped. How do you define it? And how does it exist in your life day to day? Yeah, so everyone obviously knows about mental health, but very few people talk about mental fitness. So if you've got a mind, you've got mental health. Just like if you've got a body, you've got physical health.

But you're only physically fit, like you said, if you're going to the gym, maybe pilates, walking, running. So in the same way, mental fitness is the active maintenance and training of your mind so that you can maintain a good mental health. And that's going to look different for everyone. For some of us, it might be your mental diet,

so, you know, watching what you consume, the content, the conversations you're having. I rely massively on visualization because it's that strength training of the brain. It's where you are breaking down the muscles, so you build it even stronger. And that's why I see it as fitness, because it's dynamic, it's evolving. And fundamentally, if we were to break this down, when you're looking at your mental fitness, you want to look at three key areas of your life.

It's the way you think, so like your self-talk, beliefs. It's the way you feel, so your stress, emotions, confidence. And then it's the way you think. So like your self talk beliefs, it's the way you feel. So your stress, emotions, confidence, and then it's the way you perform. So your goals, your habits, your skills. And the reason I love it is because sometimes when we talk about mental health, we get stuck in this thing of like, okay, I've got anxiety. And then it's just like full stop. I'm like, that's just not enough. Let's do something about it. It's like you saying, okay, I'm really lazy. I'm like, that's just not enough. Let's do something about it.

It's like you saying, okay, I'm really lazy. Cool, well nothing's gonna change. If you go for the run, things will change. But we're stuck talking about mental health. On all these panels I go on. It's true, right? On all the panels, yeah. And like labeling the shit out of each other and ourselves.

And like, great, it adds awareness, but I just think. It's not progressive. No, not at all. And I think mental fitness is so sexy. It's so attractive. Like, being physically attractive is just so overrated. You know, are you someone who can manage your emotions? Do you recognise when, let's say, your partner or friend is saying they're fine, but they're not? Can you achieve your goals without burning out? Do you know how to actually build your confidence when you get rejected?

Like that, that is the epitome of mental fitness. And you ask day to day, where does it come in? Every second, right? Because from the moment you wake up, what dominates everything? Your mind. Your mind. Your mind. The first thought you have, what you watch, how you reply to something, your mind dominates everything.

And you know, most people, they wake up and they're like, right, here goes again, same day, got to pick the kids up. Oh God, I've got all these emails to look at. Just, you started your day in the same pattern. And so for me, like, it's completely changed the game. And I see also how it's changed other people's games. But like, ultimately, being mentally fit is, I think, the most attractive thing in the world. And it's the best thing you can do for yourself. Because also, everybody has shit that comes up, you know, and they're like,

oh, I don't love that about myself. I didn't realize that I was going to react that way. But this perspective and this approach allows people to kind of see it as a healthy challenge versus there's something shameful about me that I don't like and I'm going to bury. But it's also, what are your strengths? You know, when I'm talking to people about their goals, like, how can you think a bit bigger? Why are you shrinking yourself?

Like, that's why I love mental fitness is because the actual concept or the practice, when you look at it for the last few centuries, who has been using it? It's elite athletes. So these people are on world stages and they're training their brain to be better, to have that champion mindset. And like, well, why can't we do the same? Yes, we do all have things that come up

and that's just the nature of life. We have curve balls, you know, we may need to exercise some resilience, but at the same time, in order to, you know, really like meet your potential or enjoy your inner power and actually feel what it's like to genuinely be self-confident, that requires effort and training. It can't just be left to chance.

For most of us, we leave it to chance. Yeah, because it feels like that is at the core of confidence, because you could have the perfect life, the perfect body, the perfect Instagram feed, but if you aren't mentally agile and fit and looking after your mind, then it's all redundant. Yeah, and you know, I often hear that people are like, once I lose weight, I'll feel so good about myself.

Or when this happens. Exactly, or when I get this job, I'll feel happy, right? Like nine out of 10 times, that just doesn't happen. Or it doesn't last very long. No, it doesn't because you're exactly right to actually create sustainable strength, confidence, emotional fearlessness. Yeah, this needs to be trained. And think about

how we grew up. We all went to PE class. We all, to some extent, did some level of movement. But mental education or mental fitness was just never, never even spoken about. But ironically, it's half our health, you know? Yeah. And I come back to that analogy of like, if you had to pay for your brain, would you not want to make it the sharpest and best it could be? But we just take it for granted. It's like a trillion dollar computer here. But because we don't have to actually pay for it or think about it, we just don't train it.

Feed it shit. Yeah, exactly, exactly that. But I think the really interesting thing is that because we leave it to chance, that's why it's so conditioned to kind of sabotage us. That's interesting. Yeah. And like most, most humans will have their two beliefs that will dominate them. I'm not loved. I'm not good enough. Like at the core of everything, imposter syndrome,

not believing that you deserve success or happiness, or thinking that you shouldn't be in this room or thinking that, you know, I met this woman a few months back and she's like a really amazing leader in a tech company. And she was like, but Maya, like, I know as a female leader, I have to be more quiet. I have to do it differently. And she never really, she never believed that she really deserved that position. And it's like, well, where do these beliefs come from?

Like, who told you that? And like, once you actually understand that, yeah, okay, this one teacher said this one thing, or my boss said this, or if I just look at the world, what am I internalizing? But again, you've got to choose your beliefs. You've got to think differently. And like, we spent time, like, seeing her

actually shape the type of leader she did want to be. How does she want to communicate? What does that look like? And mentally rehearsing and getting good at it. And it was amazing because I saw her the other day and she was just like, you know, I've never felt more authentic in my job. I can be vulnerable, but I can also be powerful. I can delegate, but I can also listen.

And I just thought it was amazing to watch someone really step into their own and overcome a lot of those limitations that we've put on ourselves. And it's not always our fault. I do wanna mention that it's not our fault, but it is your responsibility. I love that. Yeah, like what's the point on being like,

oh my gosh, you know, my mom never taught me this or I grew up in a difficult place. I get it. Like it's tough. Not your fault. But now take responsibility. That's how you change. Do you want to spend like years in therapy complaining about your parents? Would you actually want to do something about it? Yeah, exactly. And it's not to say like, has to be something massive, but small things. I always, I love this idea that breakthroughs and transformation doesn't have to be revolutionary. No, it rarely is. It's the little things.

It's evolutionary, right? It's the tiny things. It's like the moments of subtle changes, like, oh, I responded to this very differently to what I would have done three months ago. Like that, I'm like, that's amazing. In fact, there's a Japanese word called kocho. And me and my best friend do this, where every time we notice, we react or respond differently, we just message each other saying kocho.

And basically what it means is, when a caterpillar becomes a butterfly, the butterfly can sometimes remember the memory of the caterpillar. And they talk about it as the word literally means that transformation, where you know you've stepped into the new, but you remember who you were like before. And we always message each other, we're like, let's just celebrate it. Let's celebrate no matter how small it is.

Yeah, okay, cool. On this phone call, I didn't react like that. I instead responded with clarity or calmness. And it's just such a way, it's a nice way to keep remembering the progress as well. And celebrating the little wins. Tiny wins. Oh my, thank you so much.

For those that wanna dive into this work more, where can they find you? Yeah, so mental fitness is a new subject, yes. So if you do want to improve the way you think, feel and perform, I'd say first, BETT is probably the book coming out in March. That's really the Bible for everything about visualization. It's got the guided visualizations and it's just eight years worth of research and results. But then I'm also pretty loud online. So anything on Instagram, which is just my mental fitness or LinkedIn, but more than anything, I just love chatting to anyone about this. So I always look at my DMs and, you know, if you like

a coffee or smoothie or a green tea, um then yeah I'm always up for it because I wish I had this information or someone to speak to when I was going through it. Well thank you so much for coming on the show. I love this. Thank you everyone for listening to this episode of Saturn Returns. I hope you found it as inspiring as I did. And if you guys want to read Maya's book, I highly suggest giving it a go. It is out now. It is called Visualise. Think, feel, perform like the top 1%. So thank you very much Maya for the work that you do and for coming on Saturn Turns and sharing your wonderful wisdom. As always, everyone, remember, you are not alone. Goodbye.