Saturn Returns with Caggie - Rewriting Your Inner World with Marisa Peer: Self-Worth, Identity, and Transforming the Beliefs That Shape Your Reality

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

In this episode, Caggie is joined by renowned therapist and RTT founder Marisa Peer for a thought-provoking conversation on the mind, self-worth and the beliefs that shape our lives. Together, they explore why the brain is wired to seek what's familiar, how childhood experiences can influence our adult patterns, and the simple shifts in language and mindset that can create lasting change. Marisa shares practical tools for overcoming limiting beliefs, embracing imperfection and building a healthier relationship with yourself, offering a fresh perspective on how to break old patterns and create a life that feels more aligned. Topics covered in the episode: 🪐 How childhood experiences shape the beliefs we carry into adulthood 🪐 Why the mind chooses what’s familiar over what’s possible 🪐 The power of language to reinforce or transform limiting beliefs 🪐 Why perfection is an impossible pursuit 🪐 Reconnecting with our younger selves and questioning old stories 🪐 How to create an inner dialogue that supports growth rather than self-criticism This conversation is packed with practical tools for changing the way we speak to ourselves and challenging the beliefs that may be holding us back. — A special thank you to Pandora for supporting this season. Inspired by the milestones, experiences and personal stories that shape us, the latest Pandora Talisman collection celebrates who you are and the journey you’re on. Discover the Talisman that speaks to you in store or ⁠online⁠. If this episode resonated, don’t forget to follow, share, and leave a review. Your feedback helps us reach more people seeking clarity, growth, and self-understanding. Discover more from Saturn Returns: 🪐⁠⁠ Instagram⁠⁠,⁠⁠ YouTube⁠⁠ and⁠⁠ TikTok⁠⁠ 🪐 Order the Saturn Returns book:⁠⁠ Click here⁠⁠ 🪐 Join our community newsletter:⁠⁠ Sign up here⁠⁠ 🪐 Explore all things Saturn Returns:⁠⁠ Visit our website⁠⁠ 🪐Follow Caggie on Instagram:⁠⁠ @caggiesworld⁠

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kaggy Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. This season is proudly sponsored by Pandora, who have launched a new chapter of the Pandora Talisman Collection, inspired by the milestones, experiences and personal stories that shape us. Each piece is designed to celebrate who you are and the journey you're on. To mark the occasion, I'll be choosing a talisman at the start of each episode. that reflects the guest and theme of our conversation. In today's episode, I am joined by renowned therapist and founder of rapid transformational therapy,

Marissa Pir, for a fascinating conversation about the mind, self-worth and the stories we tell ourselves. Marissa's work explores how our thoughts and language shape our beliefs, behaviors, and ultimately the lives we create. And together we discuss why the mind is drawn towards what feels familiar, how childhood experiences can influence the patterns we carry into adulthood and how becoming aware of those patterns gives us the opportunity to change them. Marissa shares practical ways to transform our internal dialogue from questioning long-held beliefs to making praise feel more familiar.

We also explore perfectionism, self-rejection and why lasting change can begin with learning to speak to ourselves differently. For me, this conversation feels deeply connected to the heart talisman. Love conquers all. The talisman is the celebration of compassion, connection, and the power of the heart. It represents kindness, forgiveness and the quiet strength of empathy and feels particularly fitting for a conversation that asks us to consider the relationship we have with ourselves. Love isn't just something we offer to others, but something we can practice within ourselves, and in doing so, begin to change the ways we experience our lives. So if you're Stepping into a new chapter, celebrating a milestone or navigating a period of change,

what would your talisman be? To discover the Pandora talisman that reflects you, visit Pandora in store or online. I hope you enjoy this fascinating conversation. Marissa, welcome to Saturn Returns. Thank you for inviting me. I feel like you're like the godmother of therapy. How did it all kind of start off? Like, where did this journey begin for you?

Well, I wanted to be a teacher. my father was an incredible teacher who got a lot of joy from it. I thought, you know, I'm going to do that. But then I realized that I would rather be a child psychologist. And then I realized that that actually was a very hard job because you tend to have three clients, mom, dad, child. So I gave it all up mid-study and went to L.A. and taught aerobics for Jane Fonda, which was much more fun.

Yeah, I did. It was amazing. And I realized then that Jane, who's very honest about it, And at least half the girls, maybe more in her work, actually you were bulimic, anorexic, body dysmorphic or exercise compulsive. And I thought, wow, this is a mental illness. I mean, I don't mean to be rude, but an eating disorder is a disorder of the mind. So you could call it a mental illness, but be kind.

And we're trying to fix the mental illness with aerobics. It just doesn't work. And then I almost by mistake found hypnosis. And at the time I was living in West Hollywood, and my two roommates, one was bulimic, one was anorexic. One would eat a frozen grape every hour. The other would cry and eat a whole cheesecake. And so I thought, wow, this is really interesting.

And I found this way, and I've managed to fix both of them really quickly using hypnosis. Because hypnosis finds the pattern, understands it and changes it all in one session. Most therapy tries to find the pattern or maybe change the pattern over years. but in hypnosis you find it makes sense of it and change it. And so for a long time I just was the eating disorder expert in L.A. That's all I did. And when was this? Because I feel like this was at a time when there wasn't perhaps as much awareness around.

It was like a bit more normalized, I'd say. It might be before you were born. It was the early 90s and the very late 80s. Yeah. Because I also meant like growing up at school, there was just this kind of competitiveness to be thin. And like it's something we can maybe go into. too later, but it is something I wanted to discuss with you because it's such a difficult thing for women in terms of their relationships with their bodies. And it's something that often,

I mean, you spoke about people that actually had anorexia or bulimia, but sometimes it's not actually that obvious that anything's wrong, but there's a bad relationship with themselves and with eating. So through hypnosis, you actually were able to heal that in people. Yeah, through hypnosis. You see, nobody's born with a bad relationship with food. You have a baby. Yeah. My baby's all grown up. But they don't go, well, that make me fat. How many calories are in that? And they don't have any shame about having a little fat tummy and triple thighs. In fact, they love their bodies. So the interesting thing is we acquire it. And if you acquire it, you can get over it. But it takes a bit of practice. So kind of going back to, I feel like the, you're like the architect of the mind

or you speak about the mind as this program that's actually a lot more simple than we make it out to be. I personally often get very clouded in my own mind, definitely with like negative thought loops and spiraling. So that's something I'm quite like, when I knew I was speaking to you, I was like, this is fascinating because I feel like your approach is like,

like it's actually a lot more simple. Like the mind is more of a simple mechanism than we think. And how did you figure that out? You know, I was very lucky because I've been a therapist my entire adult life, almost 40 years now. And I realized very quickly that all my clients have the same problem. A movie star in Olympic athletes, a nursery school teacher, cabin crew, a flight attendant, sorry.

And they all had exactly the same problem. I'm not enough. I'm different so I can't connect. what I want is not available. Everything else was under those three things. I could always put them into one of three categories. And so that was really interesting to me. And then I realized, of course, the brain is not complex.

It's very simple. Your brain has one job. Keep you alive against what we want, not actually great odds. So your brain wants to keep you alive. Your brain will always look for proof of what you've told it. If you say every guy dumps me, I can never remember anything, everything I touch falls apart. Your brain tries to prove that to you.

But if you say the opposite, I'm great at relationships, I'm great at speaking. I'm really lucky your brain will also try to prove that because the brain is just a big robot. And your brain should be your best friend and it should work for you, but most of us are working for it

and we just are not taught. Look, this is simple. We're taught very complicated. If you have a complicated problem like anorexia, then requires complicated treatment. If your problem is complex like depression, well then the treatment is complex too, and that's just not true.

If you could just understand how your mind worked, you could have anything you wanted. You could have it all. You could even have it all all the time, but you've got to know how the brain works, which is kind of why I wrote that book to explain. The brain has some very simple rules. If you get them, you can make them work to your advantage.

And what are the most common things that you have experienced with clients where they get it wrong? Well, one of them is the brain can't hold conflicting thoughts. And a lot of us say things like, I want to be successful, but I wouldn't see my child. I want love, but it would kill me if it went wrong. I want to have an amazing body, but I couldn't live without pizza or takeouts on the weekend. And the minute you say but, your brain is going in two directions. I want it, but. So if you change just the but to end, so you could do this.

So imagine someone like you might say, I want to have a great business, but I also want to be a great mother. They don't go together. But if you said, I want a successful business and I'm going to be a great mother, your brain starts to look to have, it starts to look for proof. Well, let's find someone like Stella McCarney. She's a great mother. They've got four very normal kids.

So is Sophie Ellis Bexter, who's got five. So once you say something, your brain looks for proof. But when you say but it just shuts down. So when you say, I want to be healthy, but life would be so boring without cake. You put a roadblock. But if you say, I want to be healthy and I could have a little bit of cake once a week, your brain starts to make that possible. So just that tiny shift instead of butt.

But and. And here's another tiny shift that is powerful beyond belief. Your brain wants to go to what is familiar and known and away from what is unfamiliar and unknown. And that's an absolute fact. So you'll probably find when your daughter becomes two that she won't eat anything, she doesn't already know. You know, if you've always had pink yogurt in a blue bowl and you give them, I don't know, like yellow yogurt in a green bowl, I don't want that because I don't know it,

because what's familiar stopped us dying. When we lived in war, cities, we didn't go for walk at midnight on our own. We learned to stay with what we knew, and our brain still wants what is familiar. So if you grow up with a lot of criticism and no praise, then when someone says, hey, I love you, a dressergo, I've had it for five years. I got it in a second-hand shop. Not only will you not let in the praise, you'll add in criticism. So here's something that will really help you.

Never say it's hard, say it's unfamiliar. I'm going to do the plank, it's unfamiliar, I'm going to learn coding, it's unfamiliar. I'm going to work on my website, it's unfamiliar. Because when you say unfamiliar, the brain goes, yeah. But you're going to make what is unfamiliar familiar familiar. And if you want to change your life, make praising yourself familiar. The best thing you can do for yourself is make praise familiar

and make criticism unfamiliar. Because we're so good at going, I don't know how I pulled that off. That was just a fluke. Oh, I've really messed that up. I hear you got an award for the best speaker. Oh, yeah, the other one that was better than me was ill that day. So, you know, I notice in Spain they go, Nunada, don't mention it.

You say, say, don't mention it. It was nothing. And actually, we should mention it. We should say, thanks. I'm so glad you love my book. So glad you love this dinner. I'm so pleased you love this rather than it was nothing. But if we grow up without praise,

it's so unfamiliar, we have to reject it. And even, it might not even seem like criticism, but narratives about ourselves that we believe to be true, whether it's that we're too sensitive or we're disorganized, and then we begin to kind of adopt those as identity pieces as we get older. But I wanted to go back for a second, because you spoke about working with Jane Fonda. I feel like we just like, how did that actually even come to happen?

And when you say you were teaching her. Yeah, when I left college, I taught aerobics at Pineapple Dance Studio in London. And then they opened in New York. And then Jane Fonda had this workout studio that was a big thing. And so I got a job there teaching aerobics in Robertson Boulevard. And it was amazing and she was amazing. And did you ever have, because you said that you could observe with the people that you're around, that they had these complexes and these mental challenges that.

they were facing to do with their bodies. Did you have anything that you had to personally really overcome before you stepped into this work? Oh, yeah. So, you know, I think, I mean, I had an eating disorder too. I was never bulimic. I never made myself sick. But I was very much, you know, when you worked at Jane Fonda's exercise studio,

everyone ate the same diet, diet hot chocolate, diet granola, diet yoga, and diet Coke. We all ate the same thing. We all would like work out for five hours a day. We're all obsessed. I mean, I used to take my scales on holiday with me because I was always scared I might gain weight. And it's a really weird way to live. And that's another rule of the mind.

Every thought you think is a blueprint. When you start to fear, I might gain weight. I won't look right in this. You actually become it because your brain doesn't just take in your thoughts. It actively starts to make them real, whether they're good or bad. And one day I remember reading a magazine, you know, I couldn't wear that. And I remember thinking, how long have I spent in my life saying, I can't eat that? I can't wear that.

It must be 30 years. I've said, I couldn't eat that. I couldn't wear that. And I thought, you know what? I can do the opposite. I'm going to say I can wear that and I can eat whatever I like. And I deliberately said, I can eat anything. I just burn it all off.

And amazingly, I never gained a pound. I ate stuff I'd never eaten in my, would never eat like cheese and chocolate. And I thought, wow, I spent 30 years stressing myself. I can't eat that. I can't wear that. And then I just totally wrote that I can eat whatever I want. I'll always be the same way. And I can wear anything.

And it became true because your words shape your reality. And when you don't like your reality, you've got to go back and change your words first. Because words come first. Thoughts create feelings and feelings create behaviors. But it all starts with what you think and what you say. Because that's another rule. Every thought you think is a blueprint that your mind. and body make.

When you go, I ate so much, I know I'll have gained a pound. You go, oh, see, I knew it. I went there, I knew I'll get sick. I knew that wouldn't work. So we don't know our thoughts, the blueprints, that our mind is working to make real. And if we did, we'd probably work harder to change the blueprint. I actually had a very similar experience with my relationship with food,

and it was around when I turned 30 that I realized I was like, Like, because I looked normal and no one really knew, I think when I was at school, I had a bit more of an eating disorder. It was like boarding school, girls becoming very competitive, cigarettes, diet, coke, instead of having dinner, going to the gym all the time. And it kind of triggered or started this thing in my head that's like, you have to be thin to be worthy, which is often like the core of it. And it kind of carried on and carried on until I was 30. And then I realized I was like, I can't carry on my whole life with this voice in my head. Because similar to what you just explained, it was, I'd stop myself from going on holiday. I wouldn't wear like the swimsuit or the bikini.

I'd say that I could go to a party or not because I felt like I looked a certain way. And it was all, it was all in my head. But then without even knowing this work, I'd then just made a disdemeanor. decision that I was like, I'm not going to carry on like this. I'm going to speak to myself differently. And instead of this sort of feast or famine thing that can happen when you're like trying to control everything, it was you can eat whatever you want, you can have this, there's no limitation. And then suddenly over time, you do transform your relationship with yourself in that sense. And I feel like I have like and now I'm I'm so glad that I did that work

without even really knowing it was this work that we're discussing. But I do feel now that I struggle with catching some negative thoughts. And when I was like reading your book and about this work, I almost feel like I wrestle with myself when I try and put a more positive spin. And I guess my question is, can you ever, how do you discern between, what's just if you're in the wrong situation or not in the right place or you need to actually make changes and the voice that's telling you that versus you just being in a kind of a loop or a negative spiral. Yeah for me you know when I knew as having a child I thought I cannot have an

eating disorder. My mother would live on yogurt and spinach and would say things like you've got to suffer to have a nice body you can't eat that you'll get fat so she trained me to have a terrible relationship. And we do have a relationship with food. So for me, it was a thing I couldn't trust and I couldn't enjoy. And if you ate that, you'd pay a price and you couldn't fit into your clothes. And I thought, there's nowhere I'm passing that onto my child. It's so toxic. You know, we have children of six now, so I want to go on a diet that that's going to make me fat. And it's really a terrible thing. The whole diet industry is so abusive. They say things like, punish those pounds. You know, they say, here, hey, hey, I've got an answer. Oh, yeah.

They'll say, here's the thing, go on this diet and it will solve you. When it doesn't, it goes, well, you've got to go on a stricter diet, a longer diet, a harder diet. We still have these beach body diets. And we'll have things like Slim Fast and Diet Breakfast Bars. And the thing is, it's so insiduous that it gets into your head. And then people say, you know, I fought my body for 20 years and now I've stopped. But the brain is so used to it because it's so familiar now. to look at the calories to say, oh, no, that's got fat in it.

And nobody understood at the time that fat doesn't make you fat. Fats full of testosterone. Actually, fat burns fat. The best thing you can eat is fat, obviously good fats. But I think the whole dieting world is, you know, we're invited to eat junk food 400 times a day from when you open your computer to drive past a billboard, to look at the TV. you're invited to eat terrible food 400 times a day.

And, you know, pears don't have a budget to advertise themselves. I took my daughter to the Olympics in London, and the sponsors were Cadbury's, Coca-Cola and McDonald's. And that's what all the hoardings were like, well, this is the Olympics. And they weren't going to be the trays, giving you free Cadbury's chocolate, giving you free Coca-Cola. It's like because they've got the budget, but vegetables don't have that budget. So we have to wonder, what are our children picking up?

And so, of course, the brain also learns by repetition. And so if you've repeated something for many, many, many years, you have to do a bit of work to change it. Mm-hmm. And if we applied that to something different, like if someone feels that... One thing that I often think, I'd be curious to know your opinion on this,

I get stuck in this idea that I can go off path, that like my path or anyone's path is set and if you don't listen to your intuition or you make a wrong decision you go off path and you know there's a saying that's like the further along you go in the wrong direction the more expensive the ticket back

and I get very stressed out about that idea that one decision can make you go in the wrong direction and then I obsess over that one decision and get like sort of stuck in the past, oh, if I'd done that and gone that way instead, or what if I'd done that? And it creates this like very, it creates a bit of a prison in my own mind, if I'm honest. So the unhappiest people in the world are those who are trying to be perfect.

Here's the finishing line for the race to perfection. As you get to it, it goes over there and you can never win the race to be perfect because you can't complete it. And your mind doesn't want perfection. It wants direction. So even if you go off path, you can come. come back and direct your mind. What helps is to say, you know what, I get a chance to change every single day, every day

for the rest of your life. You get to change twice, change a thought, which will change a feeling or a behavior. And, you know, it doesn't matter if you come off path. Success is not never failing. It's how quickly you get back. So you might say, hey, you know, I meditate every day. And then I didn't meditate for the whole weekend. Who cares?

As long as you pick it up again, you're allowed to factor in. imperfections, your imperfections make you real. You know, I always say I'm a flawed person, having flawed relationships with flawed people and it's called being flawsome. It's a nice place to be a perfect person doesn't have real relationships because people find them very intimidating and it's an act, it's not real. So you have to give yourself a break. I'm a flawed person. I'm on the path and this weekend I didn't meditate. I ate peep so I didn't go to the gym. I didn't comb my hair. I really lost myself. But you can get back on track because that's what success is. If you try to never fail, you can't do that. So you have to be kind to yourself. And so I'm on track, but I'm allowed to have a day off. I'm allowed to have a week off.

And that's fine. And I think we beat ourselves up as women and as parents, you know. We're so busy trying to make it perfect for our kids. But children don't live in a perfect world. They're not averse to hitting another. kid on the head with a piece of Lego if they took a toy from them. They also get really cranky and have meltdowns and tantrums and they just bounce back and they never feel bad about themselves that they had a bad moment. So we have to look at them and think, okay, you are allowed to make many, many mistakes in your life. A person who never made a mistake, never made a thing. And if you make a mistake and you learn from it, that's a great thing. So, you know, be your own best friend. and be more understanding that you're a human being,

not a human doing. As sometimes you just have to be, as soon as you have to get a lot wrong in order to get it right. Would you say there was a point in your life where you suddenly are like, okay, I understand myself, I know how to discern between something that's holding, like a voice that's holding me back versus something that's propelling me forward because I think that's something that my audience struggle with as well is

because we are so language obsessed, which obviously through your work can be very powerful when we reframe things, when we use affirmations. But I'm curious how like the relationship between the mind and the body connects from your understanding because we can sometimes feel something and perhaps we think we're feeling it before we've even thought. But I feel like you would argue otherwise. It's like how. I would argue it's a ladder.

A thought comes first. First, you think a thought. The thought creates the feeling. The feeling creates the behavior. If you think a thought, I'm terrified of flying. I mean, you get to the airport. You look at the point. I can't get on it.

I feel so scared. And the behavior is I'm not getting on that plane or I need to drink or take some medication because I've got a thought. So we think a thought. I'm scared of flying. That thought makes me feel anxious. The anxious makes me not. board a plane and I go back to the thought. So if I thought a thought, I'm not enough. I'm going to

feel sad, blocked, I'm even angry. And I'm going to do all kinds of behaviours that go along with the thought. I'm going to avoid stuff or act out or be difficult or be terrible because I think a thought is a loop. I'm not enough. But if I flip that to, I am enough, I feel brave, I feel confident, I feel calm, I feel relaxed, I feel safe. And I can take some actions, go for that job, ask that person out, maybe start my own business because I know I'm enough. So wherever you are, go back and understand what you're thinking because here's one of the most important rules of your mind. The way you feel about everything comes down to the thoughts you think and the pictures you construct, no one else is making those thoughts or pictures. And if you can just think,

yeah, I'm thinking negative thoughts and negative pictures and now I'm stuck, but you can flip the picture. you can flip the thought. You know, if I said you stand on that table, you wouldn't hesitate, would you? Maybe I would. But if it was the top of the, if top of the Birch-Kalevian, I said, go and stand on that little thing,

you say, oh, no, because the thought would be I could fall. When you think of standing on that table, your brain's thinking of proof, well, the table's not that far off the ground. It's fire. If I say, I give you a million dollars for standing on that table, you probably would do it. But if I said, go to the top of the highest building in New York,

and there's a little balcony with no, railing stand on it, your brain would look for proof of how it could go wrong. So you have to start allowing your brain to find good proof and not bad proof. There are some people who have no fear of heights, but on the whole it's wide into us to fear falling, to fear failing, because your brain will look for proof, but you can give it better proof. And when you've discussed, like being stuck in the sort of familiar, often a familiar pain, versus like an unfamiliar perhaps expansion or success.

How do people work on rewiring or prepping their nervous system so that they can hold that capacity to expand? Because I think like we discussed, a lot of people want more in their career. They might want to do public speaking. They have these aspirations and these ambitions, but something in them sematically stops them from doing it because it feels... And there's something.

is almost always I'm not worth it, I don't deserve it, I shouldn't have it. So before you do anything else, you've got to sit with yourself and repeat this expression, I'm worth it, I deserve it, I'm worth it, I deserve it over and over and over again. Because what you're doing, first of all, is you're making that familiar, but you'll notice some objections. I'm not really worth it. I don't really, and you think, well, who is doing this objecting with you? you're objecting to yourself and the good thing is by saying, okay, I can notice these objections.

Eventually you run out of them. The objections. You run out of objection. So you might say, I'm worthy of having the most amazing, loving relationship with the great guy. Then you go, yeah, but I don't have a perfect body. I've got cellulite.

I don't have designer clothes. And then your brain will look at the objections. They're coming from you and you think, so what? but I'm still worthy of love. How could I not be worthy of love? And eventually you run out of objections and you stop objecting to yourself. So is this a conversation between you and yourself?

No. You mean your psychology talks to your biology every single day. When you say I'm going to get a headache, that's going to tie me out, I'm going to get fat, I'm going to gain weight, I'm going to mess it up. Your psychology is having a constant dialogue

with your biology, but you can interrupt that. and say it's going to be great, it's going to work out, it's got my name all over it. So when you understand that your psychology talks to your biology, you have to say, well, why don't I influence that conversation and make it better? Yeah. So when you see your thoughts shape your reality, it's not just in a sense of how we're viewing things is our reality because we're existing more in our heads than we are and how other people see us.

but you also mean in that they will actually change our external reality as well. Yeah, so I was working in the school system here with this little boy of nine and he said, you know, I don't want to say hello to any more friends because I always have to say goodbye because in a country of expats, every two years, he'd made three friends over six years and each one of them had left. So the first time it was sad, the second it was the third time. He made a decision, that's it. If I never make a friend, I won't have that.

pain of my friend leaving me. So it's all a reframe and you have to go, but darling, look at how many, you made three amazing friends. You're going to make four, five, six, seven and it's sad that they leave, but there's always another one. So when you change the way you look at something, the way you look at it changes, and often it's just about reframing that thought that he had. And so often we have a thought and you have to ask yourself a very simple question. What would I have to think to be super confident? What would I have to think to be not confident at all? And answer that question, what would I have to believe about me to have a great life? And what would I have to believe to have a less than great life? Because then it's not so much a dialogue. It's better to ask

yourself questions. Who told me I'd never make it? Was that true? And if it was true for them, does it have to be true? My grandmother would have said to me very clearly, you finished at the 35. And that was true for her. It's not true for me. Life hasn't even started at 35. So the good thing is question a belief. And you question a belief. You're beginning to introduce doubt. You see, great religion go never question the Abba or the priest or the minister. You never question them. We used to never question doctors. They were like gods. And now we say, why should I take that medicine? What's it going to do? What are the side effect? Should I really, do I need to take that medicine. So when you question something, it's a great thing. And when your kid begins to say,

mommy, but how does Father Christmas get down that chimney? How do the reindeer get down the chimney? They're getting into the age where they're questioning. So the best way to help yourself is ask some questions. Why do I believe that? Where do that come from? Why am I keeping it? And then when you're doing the questions, you realize something very powerful. Your life is governed by what you let in and don't let in. And we can choose what we let in. So you could have been at school and told, you know, women don't really do well in science.

And you think, well, who said that? And why should I believe that? And I think we are, Gen Z are very good at questioning everything. And that's a good thing. But my generation, sorry? Not necessarily themselves. Yeah, but my generation, question anything. You know, you go to the doctor with a headache

and it gives you a pill. You go to the doctor and says, and it puts you on antidepressants. And now we say, no, I don't want to take all this medication. Now, I got run over three years ago. And I remember lying in my hospital and the nursing with literally a bag of medication. I'm like, what is that? And she said, well, this is this.

How much is that going to cost me? And she said, oh, it's about £700. I said, but I'm not going to take any of it. So take it back and take it off my bill because, and she kept saying, you're in pain. I said, no, I'm in discomfort. I am in discomfort. but I'm not in pain. If I can get myself in a situation in this little bed,

I can fall asleep. But she kept saying, do you want painkillers? I said, no, because I'm not in pain. When I had my baby, I never forget, the nurse came around and literally gave me a box of clean. And said, that's the postnatal depression.

And it usually arrives on day three. So this is the Kleenex. And I said, I'm not having that. I'm having postnatal euphoria. And she was very nice. She thought I didn't understand. So she sat down and began to explain. that all these hormones were leaving my body, and my body would react with depression. And I said,

oh, no, because I was heard I could never have a baby. So having this baby is like a miracle. I'm going to have non-stop joy. But it's interesting that we allow ourselves to let stuff in. This is, you're going to get postnatal depression. You're going to have to take all this medication. You've got the depressed gene and therefore that's going to happen. And one of my clients came to see me and I never forgot her. and she sat down she told me her very sad life her mother killed herself when she was 11 she actually found her when she came in from school so and she said to me but you know that didn't hurt me because she never liked me and i said but that's not true that hurt you twice your mother didn't like you and knew you'd find her that hurt you a lot and i said you know you're not even depressed

you are repressed and suppressed i was explaining to her that she had learned to be a good girl You know, the father was devastated. And so for the rest of the life, she never made a fuss, never did teenage drama. She just stayed home, studied and then married the first guy that asked her. And I was explaining to her that, you know, we play the only part we've ever known. And then we make that part our very own. And so she was a good girl. And she never kicked off.

And I said, but you have to have a voice and you need to stick up for yourself. So she was on a lot of antidepressants. And I said, but you're not depressed. You're repressed. You need to learn to say fuck off, frankly. It would change your life. She was a bit shocked. And I said, you could say that.

And so I was explaining to her that she needed to have a voice. Anyway, she wrote to me and said, I didn't like you, you know, because you made me swear. And she said, but I really like you now because I've lost a lot of weight. I've taken on my mother-in-law and my life is so different. Three years later, she called me and said, you'll never believe what happened. doctor said, you must come and see me, this is urgent. I went in. I said, what is it? And he said, you're not filling your antidepressants. This is very dangerous. You know you have the depressed gene, which is like your mother who killed herself. And as long as you take them, you'll never

know you're depressed. And if you stop, you're going to get very depressed. And she said, I looked at him and went, and he said, because it's going to come back. She did you know what's not coming back? I'm not coming back to see you ever again. How dare you? She and I picked up my bag. I went, fuck you, and I left his office. Because I'm not depressed. I haven't been depressed for three years, but this doctor told her she had the depressed gene. She genetically got it from her mother,

and she must take medication forever because it would come back. And yet a lot of studies now, say, especially from UCLA, say depression is actually caused by harsh, hurtful critical words that you say about yourself on a regular basis. And how could that not make you depressed? Yeah. also get depressed by not following your heart's desire. And here's the big cause of depression, disconnection. We're living in a world where we are wired to find connection, avoid rejection.

We're finding rejection, avoiding connection. So we wonder why we're depressed. But you know, you have to question, do I need medication? When people say you've got this chemical imbalance, but how do you know? You can't do a blood test that. You can't put electrodes on your head. you can't even test for that anywhere because it was made up by a drug company. They said, you've all got this chemical imbalance. Now we're going to take Prozac. One of my clients said, I couldn't have sex with my husband. I went on Prozac.

I still can't have sex. And they said, you know what? I don't care anymore because I'm dead below the head. What's the point of that? Because when you, yeah, so many things I want to get into here. But I also felt like I was someone that struggled with bouts of depression. And I never wanted to go on medication. And I also just want a caveat with saying, like, I know everyone is on a different kind of scale with this.

And for some people, just to get through the day, it's what they need. Yeah, that's true. But I knew it wasn't for me. But then when I actually, and it was around a similar to, it was around when I was 30. And I started to, or maybe like 32. And I started to, so I felt like it would come over me for no apparent reason. I was like, nothing has changed in my life. Nothing's gone wrong.

It must be a chemical imbalance. But then when I really looked at it, I noticed what was happening was just before I got depressed, the internal voice was being so mean to me. So no one, like we could meet up and have a conversation and you'd have no idea. I'm not saying it out loud. So I didn't even really acknowledge that it was being said at all and just berating myself constantly to the extent when I would then sort of collapse into this depression. And I kind of liken it to, you know, if a child goes to school every day and they're bullied.

And like for the first, what day, the second day, they can kind of feel strong and they would stand it. And then eventually they're going to, you know, they're going to crumble. And it was like that in my own head. And that was also something that I had to then address to sort of speak more kindly to myself. And it did go because of that. So I know how powerful that can be. but also you just said about if you don't follow your heart's desire. Yeah, that's a huge thing.

Yeah. Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah, so we're all put on the planet to find our gift, perfect our gift and share our gift with the world. You know, we think we're here to find love and have a child as wonderful as that is. I mean, for me, there was nothing like finding love and having a child. But even despite that, you are here to find your gift, perfect your gift and share your gift. So imagine if Adele was a nail technician and never sang.

Or Steve Jobs never invented Apple or some great designer or somebody did something amazing. So we're here to find our gift. But a lot of us don't understand that. When you go to school, school doesn't really say, hey, what's your gift lesson? You've got to be good at everything. You know, in Scandinavia, you self-select your lessons.

So kids go to the lessons where they're most gifted coders go to coding, then grist goes to language. they've got a much happier nation because they're all following their heart to fit in. But a lot of, you know, you have to do French or Spanish and you're not naturally gifted. They have to do sport and you can't do it. You have to do math and you've got a creative brain or you're creative and you've got to do science. And so I think we don't realize that we're here to find our gift. I was working with a little boy recently who was always going to be a coder.

His school said, you know, he's such a genius, but he's really troubled. he's depressed. He's now, we think he's got ADHD and he can't focus. When I spoke to him, he said, you know, I'm not good at art and I'm not good at science and I'm not good at sports. I said, but darling, you're a coder. That's where you're going to be your whole life. You've got a gift and you only have to be good at one thing. You know, you can be a jack of all trades and a master of non or good at one thing. And when you're good at one thing, that's all you have to be. But imagine if you were good at every single thing. Imagine you're good at cookery and science and art

and you plumb your own house, you make your own dinners, you never go to a restaurant, you make your own clothes, you're also a tailor. How would that world be if it were all good at everything? And he could see that it was a very sad world because his mother was a designer, his father was a landscape garden. I said, they'd never be employed either

because we can always do that ourselves. And he began to understand that he was here to find his gift and never compare himself to another kid. And actually the school wrote me and said, hey, we saw that talk. Can we put it in the assembly? I said, of course, I'd love you to. I was thrilled they wanted to

and rather bother that they didn't already know that every kid has their own gift. And if we could only just help our kids to go, look, this is your gift. You're good, I mean, Jamie Oliver was cooking at 10 in his dad's pub. He was always going to be a chef. Joe Malone was making potions of my mother's flowers,

when she was eight. My friend, who's a strategist, was doing puzzles. I was always doing pretend operations on my dolls, and now I'm a vet or a nurse. It's there from the beginning. Between 7 and 50, and what you loved at those key areas is your gift. And if you can find your gift

and make a living from your gift, you will never be depressed. Of course, we can't all do that. Some of us have to find our gift and go, well, that's going to be a hobby. It's too difficult. You know, my grandmother always wanted to be an actress. That was never...

But she ended up being a dresser. She dressed Lawrence Olivier for a while. She loved it. She was in the theatre. She wasn't on stage, but she got the next best thing. But we're not taught, you know, what is your gift? What makes your heart sing? And we go in the wrong direction, go, you know, I'm an accountant.

I absolutely hate it. I've had so many clients who are almost suicidal because they say I wanted to be a doctor, I'd be in a teacher, I'm just about to retire, and I never followed my dream. And now what? I go, well, go and work in a hospice, go and train in a romeatherapy or hypnotherapy. You can still help people even when you're retired. Because I think one of the most poisonous narratives is I've left it too late.

Yeah, that's often what happens. I told myself at 27 I'd left it too late. Yeah, too late because we think there's a clock ticking. But, you know, it isn't true. You know, the guy who wrote Angela's Ashes wrote that in his 60s, Frank McCourt. A lot of great writers started to write when they retired. Some people retire and go, well, now I can follow my dream. I can do something.

I've always wanted to be, one of my friends wanted to be a judge, and he's now a magistrate. How important is environment for nurturing someone's gift? It's very important. If you're a creative person and you live in a place that isn't creative, or if you're an artist and you live in the wrong place, that can be, you know, we need to be around nature. We are nature. I'm a part of nature. So are you.

And we need to be around nature. So why I live in Albarari in Dubai because it's green, it has water, it has birds singing. So a lot of us have forgotten that we need to be in a place that nurtures us in. But also people who nurtures. If your parents go, well, that's never going to work out. There's no money in that. You could never do that. that really crushes you.

Yeah, it doesn't matter how powerful your affirmations are if you're in the wrong environment. And I said, no, that you can't do. There's no money in that. You know, I worked with a client years ago. He's now a very famous designer. And his father would also say, no son of mine is drawing women's dresses

and you throw them in the family. So there's no future in this. And he did become a designer, but he was very tormented because he had these conflicting beliefs. While his father said, throw that in the fire and never do that. Again, the mother came in and said,

darling, I love the dresses. We'll do it all in secret and he'll never know. But now he said, now when the shows come up, I'm in terror. Yeah. I'm designing, but I feel so anxious because the mind had linked pleasure and pain to the same thing.

And when your brain links pleasure and pain to the same thing, it's stuck. It's like saying, I want love, but if I get ghosted, I want to be a parent, but what is it? if I couldn't meet my kids' needs. I want this. But, you know, when people say, you know,

when you have a child, your life's never the same again. When you have money, you never know who you're friends. You're linking pleasure and pain to the same thing. And now your brain can't leave you towards pleasure and away from pain because they're the same. So he was very tortured because what was pain was pleasure, designing dresses, what was pleasure was pain. How do you reconcile that? Well, that you go back and say that you were a little bored. boy. And now the father, by the way, is in the front row of all his shows, loves it. You know, obviously he was clearly gay and the father didn't understand that. So, but look, this is the truth. You weren't gifted a grown-up dad. Your dad was 18 when you were born. He didn't understand. We'd love to say, I've got a grown-up parent. But some of us, our parents are growing up right next to us. They're growing up with us. And he had a dad who was not understanding at all. But today the dad went to his wedding, loves his husband. in the front row going, that's my son, that's my son. So what you think has hurt you, that's not you.

It was you, but it's not you. So a lot of what we do in RTDs go, that's not me or it's not me. I have my clients go back, look at a scene and they go, it's not me because. So when you get the brain to say that was me, but it's not me, because you know, I said the brain is looking for proof. His brain is looking for proof of how designing will hurt him. Because that's what happened when he was five.

But then you give the brain another proof, here's my dad in the front row, here's my dad clapping. This is just old stuff, but I've taken it with me. And we know we do that. You know, I went to my father's school and I felt like an absolute freak. But when I left school, I took that with me for years because we played the only part we ever known. My part was a freak. I was different to all the other kids. No one else at that school had the father who was the head teacher.

so I couldn't have felt more different. And for children, it's not good to feel different. It's great when you're an adult. But again, you go back and say, why do I still believe this? Well, my dad told me that, is it true? No, it's not true. And even if it was true,

I'm not here to please my dad. I'm here to find my gift. So you've got to just ask us some very simple questions. What happened to me? Is it still going on? And let's imagine you have a very, mean critical withholding parent. Can I give you an example?

So I feel like in terms of like going from seven to 14 and I'd be curious if when you felt like you knew what your gift was, but mine was always poetry. I always wrote poetry which then kind of naturally went on to music, but it was always very secret. I don't know why. But I bet you do know why. I want you to do this. I always always wrote poetry and kept it see.

because and sung in secret. But I want you to say, I wrote poetry in secret and I sang in secret because and then quickly finished that ending without thinking about it. I wrote poetry in secret because it was different. I would sing in private because it was humiliating. And I always say it was humiliating because. It was humiliating because I was worried I wasn't good. Yeah.

So you would be judged. Yes. Somebody could judge you. Somebody could judge your singing voice and judge. your poetry. We all have a fear of being judged. So that was then. Kids are very easily judged. But what about now today? So now I've just, I mean, I did for a period actually pursue music and was, and I loved it. It was hard to make it as a musician, not only because it's a hard industry, but because of my psychology around it, because I would get so nervous performing. And if I put out

any music or anything, I could have a hundred nice comments and one nasty one and I would only see the one nasty one and that would just, it would affirm everything that I believed. And so it became so painful to perform. But paradoxically, similar to what you just said about, you know, pain and pleasure, I'd be so scared about performing and getting on stage for weeks. For weeks. I'd wake up in the night. It would consume my day. But then once I was up, there, I was in heaven and I wouldn't want to leave. Yeah. But then as soon as then there would be a big break and another one, the same thing would happen.

And interestingly, I started putting out more poetry over the last couple of years, but I'll do it. And then I'll get a very good response. And I'm going to do it every week. That's doable. And I just, I stop it. And it's, I've got this belief that poetry isn't work, that my art isn't work. It's like, so rather than sitting down and going, I'm going to write.

a poem today or like an idea that comes to me, the voice in my head is like, that's not working. You have to like find a time. Where does that voice come from? Who first told you poetry wasn't work? I grew up in a family of academics and I was always the sort of creative black sheep and there was a lot of things that were said without ill intent that was like, oh well, you're a creative so you'll never be able to get a mortgage because you wouldn't be able to buy a house as a like it was always creative people as struggling artists and therefore can't succeed, therefore it's not work. So take me back, you're lying in bed, you've got an event coming up in a few weeks.

You know when you go on stage, you're in heaven, but the build-up to it, I want you to tell me agony. What thoughts are you thinking in your head that's saying, making it agony? What are the thoughts? because they're your thoughts. It's almost like more physical. It's like even talking about it now is like making my throat feel. But I want you to go back to the thoughts because you have to think a thought. You know, to fear flying, to fear falling, to fear rejection. You've got to sink a thought, but the thoughts are often, we don't know.

We just have the feeling, but I want you to go back more. You've got the physical thing in your throat, but I want you to tell me what you're thinking. What are the thoughts you think? that if I mess up and people laugh at me. Yeah. And it'll be humiliating. So your big thing is you could be rejected. Yeah.

And you know what? Because when I was reading your book and doing research and you know how you speak about how one seemingly insignificant childhood event can actually craft like a whole adult identity? Whenever I really sit with this, I always come back to this memory when I must have been, I mean seven maybe. Yeah. And my half-brother was visiting.

And we, he wasn't, I wasn't as close as him with him as I am to my full brother. It was a different kind of relationship. He was a bit older. But I remembered that I was in the sitting room and I closed the doors and I was listening to Madonna and I was standing on the sofa and I was dancing and I was singing. And I had my eyes closed and suddenly I heard this laughing and I turned around and he was in the room pointing at me, laughing at me. And I always look at it. I'm like, that can't be why. That can't be why you're afraid of performing.

I'm honestly like I'm not a big deal. Why can't it be why? You were seven. You were seven. How old was he when you were seven? He's five years older. So he was 12. Did that happen once or did that happen more?

I only remember that one time. Okay. But then I also, I can't, when my parents would leave the house, this is when I was a bit older and they'd go to the shops or something. I would ask them how long they were going to be because then I knew how long I had to sing and I would sit at the top of the stairs and I would sing and I would sing

if they left me in the car and went to like the butcher's or something I'd put on a tape and I'd sing and I'd sing but it always came with this like I'm going to be caught oh my God the keys gone in the door oh they're home that's so embarrassing I hope they didn't hear me

so it just constantly created this like thing that it's embarrassing sounds like what you're saying is two things So you felt different in your family. If you came from a family of musicians like Ed Shearin, it would be the most normal thing in the world. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you came from an academic family.

And remember, children must connect. And how do you think you connect as a child? You connect by being the same. So you really felt different. And different is not good for a child because we, you know, we're tribal. We connect by saying, I'm like you and you're like me. So first of all, you have the difference and different.

And then you have the second thing, which is I could be rejected and humiliated for this. So you had two things going on and they've had a much bigger impact than you think which is not surprising because as a child when you had your newborn baby they have that grip

they know if I can hold on tight I won't fall so we are born hardwired to find connection and avoid rejection because you came from a family of academics and you were a musical you didn't have that connection with them

you didn't have that same thing you all talked about the same thing every day like if you watch the same thing sound of music, there's a singing family. If you were born today, you'd be having a wonderful time. Well, I remember my best friend growing up did have a, her mom was a singer. And whenever I went over there, there was songwriters in the house. They were recording music, singing, playing guitar. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. Yeah, but you didn't have it. So you see three

things happen actually. You feel different. You have that fear that you can be rejected and you have a belief it's not available to be. Her family have got it, mine haven't. So you had all those three things going on when you were very young. What we often do, we form a decision when we're seven years old with seven years of life experience. You formed a belief. I'm different to other people. I can't connect. Being accepted as things, it's not available to me and I get humiliated for it. So you made three big decisions with seven years of life experience. And all these years later, they're still affecting you. But in fact, none of that is true.

Your brother was 12, you're seven. Brothers laugh at sisters. If you told him how much you heard, you'd probably say, oh, I'm sorry. I was going through my own stuff and I was just being an idiot. If you said to your parents, if I had to be academic, they probably say, darling, we love the fact that you're creative.

Yeah. But it doesn't matter because when you're seven, you don't live in a world of logic. You live in a world of feeling. There's no logic for a seven-year-old, just feeling. And the feeling is it's not available to me. I get laughed at and I feel different. And these are very powerful feelings for a seven-year-old girl to deal with.

They're not flippant. They're not nothing. They're huge. And all these years later, you still got them. I've still got them, yeah. Do you want to get rid of them? I do. Okay, let's do it now.

Maybe the audience can do it too. So just look up like that. If you're going into an alpha brainwave, keep your eyeballs up and just close your eyelids down. Just imagine you can go back in time. You're like on a train and you're going back or you're looking at yourself on a screen and you're pressing rewind and you're going back in time and you're going back to find that little girl who dances to Madonna and sings at the top of the stairs but only does it in private. So imagine this movie of your life is rewinding, rewinding, rewinding, going back in time. And all of a sudden,

sudden, you're back outside the door of your childhood home. And you're going into that home. In fact, you are drawn like a magnet to your bedroom door. On the other side of that door is a little girl who likes to sing. And as you reach out your hand and touch that very familiar door handle and go in, you know that that little girl is you. And just as you know that, she knows that you're the grown-up version of us to go into that room. and you're going to ask her just a few questions

and she's going to answer you with complete honesty because she knows that you are the adult version of her just as you know that she is the child version if I want you to ask her one question are you happy? And she's going to answer you yes, no sometimes or maybe when you ask the little girl if she's happy, what does she say?

No. I want you to ask her another one. What is it that makes her unhappy? So she's not happy. What causes it? Big feelings. What are the big feelings? Sadness, anger, things like feelings I can't control. I want you to ask her exactly what she's sad and angry about.

Remember, she'll tell you everything with utter honesty. What is she sad and angry about? I haven't been comforted. Who is it that should be comforting? who should be comforting her? My mum. And what is it her mum does or doesn't do that makes her not feel this feeling of comfort?

She doesn't not affectionate enough or hold me when I have big feelings. And why is that that your mother doesn't hold you when you have big feelings? What is it about her? Why doesn't she hold you or give you affection when you need it so much? I don't know.

I think maybe. because she doesn't have, I don't know. Well, yeah, maybe somebody didn't teach her that, but it doesn't matter. I want you to stay with that girl of seven whose mother doesn't hold. You see children take ownership. At seven, you thought my mom doesn't hold,

we're going to have big feelings. And the only way you could ever come with that was because I guess I don't deserve it. So I want you to think about that. That little girl of seven thought or thought, when I need hugging and affection, I don't get it. And you had to take ownership of that and make it about you.

Because that's the only way a child can control it. A child might say, my dad doesn't visit because, guess they're not worth visiting. They can't really come up with any other answer. If you turn it inwards, there's a great chance you can fix it. If you turn it outwards, you really come. So I want you to imagine, put your arms around yourself as if you're holding that little girl of seven. And I want you to imagine you're taking a bit of. back to where you live today. Take her back to your home with your husband and your own little girl.

And I want you to say some things out loud, even if I feel a bit silly. And I want you to just repeat these exact words, holding that little girl, I want you to say out loud. By the way, what were you called as a little girl? Caggy. Caggy. So I want you to say Caggy, I'm becoming a loving parent to you now. Caggy, I'm becoming a loving parent. to you now. And no one in the whole world can play this role of loving parent to you. And no one in the whole world can play this role of loving parent to you. Like I can. Like I can. I love you completely. I love you completely. I love you unconditionally. I love you unconditionally. You and I have balance now. You and I have balance now. There's nothing we can't do. There's nothing we can't do.

always have time for you. I'll always have time for you. I'll always believe in you. I'll always believe in you. And I want you to imagine taking that little cagie, you're the grown-up version, she's the child, taking her by the hand into wherever you live today and walk it into your living. And I want you to look at all the things you have. You probably have a smart TV, Sonas, Alexa, a smartphone. I want you to look around just at how different your world is, that you went out and got those. those things, even though when you were seven, they didn't even exist, but you got them. So look around all the things you managed to acquire that you didn't have at seven. And then go into your bedroom and open your closet and look at all your clothes and shoes and

bags. And yes, these are things, but they're things you could not possibly have at seven. Go and look at your beautiful baby that you made who just worships you and thinks you're the best person in the world because you are. Go into your bathroom and look at your products. Go into your kitchen and look at all the stuff you have. I want you to notice how different your life is today by looking at the different. You see, we always look at what's the same. I want you to look very clearly at what is different. You have a husband that loves you. You go to sleep at night with someone that loves you. You wake up. You have this beautiful baby that your love made. And I want you to say to that little caggy out loud, I'm upgrading you into my world now.

So say, I'm upgrading you into my world. I'm upgrading you into my world. This is a nicer. This is a nicer. Better. Better. Safer place. Safer place.

And now you live in my world. And now you live in my world. You can't go back to the other world. You can't go back to that other world. Not even in your daydreams. Not even in your daydreams. dreams. I believe in you. I believe in you. I think you're amazing. I think you're amazing. I love the fact that you're creative. I love the fact that you're creative. I love the fact that you're creating. I love the fact

you can sing. I love the fact you can sing. And write poetry. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. You have a creative brain. You have a creative brain. And you're here to be expressive. And you're here to be expressive. You're here to be creative. You're here to be creative. And I want you to imagine, Kagi, if your parents had a degree in raising you with high self-ism, if they knew what to say to nurture your creative soul, what might they have said if they knew exactly what to say? What do you think they would have said? I'm talented. I have a gift.

And to share that gift. Yeah. And it's what I call the missing bit. We often don't hear our parents say that, but it's not your parent's job. It was until you were 18 their job. And today it's your job, and you can do that job better than anyone else. I want you to say to that little girl, you are talented. You are talented.

You're so talented. You're so talented. You're so lucky. You've got a creative brain. You have a creative brain. You can write poetry. You can write poetry. You can sing songs.

I love your creativity. I love you. love your creativity. It's who you are. It's who you are. And you were put on the planet to be creative. And you were put on the planet to be creative. And I'm here supporting you. And I'm here supporting you. Believing in you. Believing in you. And telling you the truth. And telling you the truth. The only person you can reject you today is you. The only person that can reject you today is you. And you're never going to do that. And you're never going to do that. When you're on stage, it's magical. When you're on stage, it's magical.

And the weeks leading up to being on stage, you're going to be magical too. And the weeks leading up to being on stage are going to be magical too. Because I believe in you. Because I believe in you. A singer must sing. A singer must sing. A singer must sing. A dancer must dance. A dancer must dance.

And a writer must write. And a writer must write. And this is not what you do. It's who you are. And it's not what you do. It's who you are. And you can never be rejected. And you can never be rejected.

So I want you to imagine singing to you. baby, writing poetry that later you show her, writing a poem about her and her coming into your life and sharing your work with your audience, knowing that you cannot be rejected. The only person with the power to reject you is you, and you're never going to do that. So I want you to stay in that image upgrading that caggy into your house. when you're a little girl, you needed support, you needed understanding, you needed someone to encourage you. And today you have all of that because you can encourage yourself, support yourself, believe in yourself the most important word you will ever hear. In other words, you say to you.

So I want you to imagine living in your house now with your husband and your child, it is your job to fill yourself up with support. And I want you to say to that little girl, I love, your talent. I love your talent. I love your creative soul. I love your creative soul. I believe in you. I believe in you. The joy of my life is to parent you. The joy of my life is to parent you. When I'm parenting Lola. When I'm parenting Lola. I'm also parenting you. Every time I praise her, every time I praise her. I remember to also praise you. I remember to also praise you. And I want you to imagine you can feel that little caggy hovering above your head and just starting to merge down, to send down and drop down and take up residency. I want you to say out loud, I've created a place in my heart for you.

I've created a place in my heart for you. I've created a place in my body for you. I've created a place in my body for you. I've created a place in my life for you. I've created a place in my life for you. And now that you live in my world. And now that you live in my world, and now that you live in my world, You can never go back to that other world. You can never go back to that other world. Not even in your dreams. Not even in your dreams. Because you live in my world.

Because you live in my world. And this is a beautiful world. And this is a beautiful world. Full of expression. Full of expression. Full of praise. Full of praise. And love.

And love. And acceptance. What else would you like to tell that little girl? It's what I call the missing bit, the words you didn't hear, the praise you did not get. What else does that little girl need to hear and know? That this is something to follow.

Yeah, and this is who she is. And this is who she is, yeah. So tell her that this, you must follow your heart's desire. You must follow your heart's desire. The universe puts you on the planet with a creative talent. The universe put you on the planet with a creative talent. And it's going to support you a million percent. And it's going to support you a million percent.

As you pursue that. As you pursue that. For you? For you. Because it's who you are. Because it's who you are. This is who you are. What else does she need to hear and be told by you?

That she's enough. Yeah. So I would you say you're enough? You're enough. What else does she need to hear? That it's okay to be different. Mm-hmm. It's okay to be different.

Yeah. But you see, we all think we're different and that's a fear. Our greatest fear is to be different. If it's our greatest fear to be different, then we must all be the same because we all got this same fear. If 85% of us fear being different, then we must be the same, mustn't we? Because we all have the same fear. So your brother, if you said to him now, you know, you really hurt me when I was dancing and you laughed at him. What would he say?

Sorry. He said, I was just being a 12-year-old idiot. Mm-hmm. Do you still see him now? No. Not at all. And if you did, would he laugh at you? No.

He actually came to my last performance. That was the last time I saw him. And did he laugh? No. Did he come to your wedding? No. Did you dance at your wedding? Yeah, I'm not actually married.

Oh, sorry. If you ever get married, do you imagine dancing at your wedding with everyone around you? I think I'd be shy, but yeah. No, I think you wouldn't. I think you think you would, but you wouldn't because it's a celebration. So how do you feel now having tuned into that little girl and seen what she needed and made a decision that you must give yourself what you need to see? It's no one else's job to find out what you need and to do it.

It's yours. And you know what you need better than anyone else in the world, don't you? Yeah. So when you did that just for a few minutes, what was that like? I felt like a lot of sensation in my throat, which is interesting because that's why it was blocked. Well, the throat is an emotional thing. You know, we often talk about this throat shacks. There's a thing called Globus hysteria thing.

I've got a big lump in my throat and I can't speak. Which is what I often have when I'm trying to express myself. Because a part of you thinks it's not allowed. So when you figure it's allowed, I'm a, it's like saying, I've got a cat, but I wanted to be like a fish. I bought a dog and I wanted to be like a parrot. You know, you can't be what you're not. The stones don't tour because they need the money.

Rod Stewart is not on stage at 80s. because he's the performer and performers must perform. Dancers must dance, singers must sing, painters must sing, painters must paint. We know that most painters are still painting at 90, most composed or composing at 80 because it's who they are. And this is who you are. It's who you are to be a creative soul. You can't amputate that part of you anymore you can cut off your leg.

So you've got to say I'm a creative soul and I need to be in a creative world. I need to create, even if it's just, just for myself, but you said when you're on stage, you love it. I do. So the lead-up is that little girl. So your answer is, if ever you're in bed now, close your eyes again. And imagine you comfort her. You put your arms around, you say, darling, you were born for this.

This is what you're meant to do. Being on stage or singing or writing, it's what you're meant to do. And you're doing what you mean. You're following your heart's desire, and it's all good. imagine comforting yourself with those magical words. What does that feel like? Expansive and calm. Yeah.

And does it take away all the fear? Mm-hmm. Good. So you know you know what to do. Right. That's it. Yeah, we all have to become a loving parent to ourselves. You know, many of us had parents who didn't know.

They really had no idea. Yeah. And then we spend the rest of our life waiting for them to make it better, but they can't because you have to parent yourself. Once you're 20, it's your job to go, hey, I'm smart, I'm creative, I'm good at this. I mean, imagine, let's do one more thing, close your eyes. And imagine your parents are both moved into your house today. You go home from this podcast and they've moved in with all their worldly goods.

They've had an epiphany and their entire motivation for the rest of their life is to praise you, to love your poems, to come to every event. and be clapping madly in the front row and they just want to live with you and praise you and undo the damage. How long could you take that for? Not very long. What, a weekend?

A month? Yeah, so you just prove two things. You don't need it. And guess what? You don't even want it. Because you can do it better than them. So you're free now. Perfect.

Isn't that nice to be free? It is nice. I know we've got to wrap up in a second. But thank you for this, by the way. It's been very powerful for me. And probably your audience, too, but for my audience, absolutely. So when we do this type of work, obviously that it's a daily discipline, right? You know, I don't like the word discipline because it requires its work.

Why don't you say it's four minutes of fun? Four minutes of fun. When I'm just before I get up in the morning, well, you don't have to do it a few times. If you did this maybe five times, that's enough for the rest of your life because you've wired it in. Yeah, but you can do it for longer. So just before you go to sleep at night, just after you, maybe when you're holding Lola and she's asleep in your arms,

you can think, gosh, I can do this to me. I can now hold me in my arms and just pour in all the what I call unfinished business. The words I did not hear that I deserve to hear. I still need to hear. So it's a good thing. Do you rock her to sleep? She's just got that point.

Yeah, I do. I sort of, she's now able to go to sleep in her, cop, but I'll do like a kind of meditation where I get my nervous system really calm. So she's really calm. So when she goes in the car, she just goes in. But when you're doing that, do it a few minutes for you as well. Just imagine you're holding you. We feel very real because you're holding a baby and just start to say those things.

You're talented. You're gifted. I'm glad you're here. I'm so proud of you for writing and performing because you're fixing what I call unfinished business. And you only have to do that maybe for a week. Yeah. 10 days maximum, and it will wire in and sink in, and it will change your entire life. And if you're ever in bed thinking, oh, it's going to comfort yourself and go, this is great, this is your dream come true, you're on stage, this is what you were put on the planet to do.

Okay. And don't think of it as work. It's unfamiliar, but guess what, within a week, it'll be the most familiar thing. And you'll like it. And it will heal you from the inside out and the outside in. Thank you. Marissa, thank you so much for joining us. It's been such a pleasure. Is there anything you want to add for our audience of where they can find you? The whole thing I just did with you is in that book. It's called Upgrade the Child. So you can read that and go, oh, right. Yes, Marissa's

explaining how to do it. For any of my honest, because I did that kind of shut my eyes and did it with you, but I want to do it with different words. It's in that book. It's such a powerful thing to do to upgrade the child, to parent yourself, to understand that you have to say those words. It was their job and now it's your job and you can do it better than anyone. So it's all in there. It takes a few minutes. It's one of the most powerful things you'll ever do and it can change your entire life for the rest of your life. Well, thank you.

Thank you so much. And just remember to say it's not hard. It's not unfamiliar and it'll be familiar. It's like taking sugar out of your coffee. It's unfamiliar. and then suddenly it isn't. I'm going to do it. Watch the space people.

Yeah, let me know how you get on. I'll be excited to know. I will do. Thank you very much for joining us. And yeah, everyone go grab copy of the book. And there's some audios too. There's a QR code in there. We have a lot of free audios for money blocks, love blocks, health blocks, success blocks.

And as you go to Marissapeer.com slash gifts. They're all free. Perfect. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed this conversation between myself and Marissa. She is someone that I've wanted to come on the show for so long. We actually recorded this in Dubai, which is somewhere I'm still living. I will get into all of that with you guys soon.

But she lives there as well. So she was one of the people that she's been on my radar for ages. So I was so grateful when her team got in touch. I feel like at the moment, like I don't think I'm a great manifesto. Maybe I am. but with guests that I want to have on the show, it's freaking me out. I'll literally think of someone and like within a few weeks their team, their team's got in touch. And it's awesome.

I absolutely love it. But some of my afterthoughts on this episode was, you know, I definitely need to get a bit of a rain on my negative thoughts. And what's interesting about, you know, I spoke about how I had the, this bout of depression when I was when I was younger and how I recognized that it was this like internal chatter that was out of control and that internal chatter was very much because I didn't feel like I was where I was supposed to be. I felt like everyone else had filed their lives in some kind of meaning and structure and was on the path on the right timeline and I was left behind and that was my own doing that I'd made mistakes that I'd gone the wrong way that I had failed

and that sort of self-berating became a form of depression as inevitably it does. And now what I recognise in myself is slightly different, but I'm calling it out in this right now. I've noticed it myself, but I haven't said it out loud. But there's a different sort of thing happening, which isn't like, oh, I've failed, I'm behind. It's almost like I feel like I'm following a time. timeline, but is it my timeline? And I think at this age and stage, which is very different to my late 20s, shit gets real. Like, shit gets real in like mid 30s, late 30s, where things become more permanent. And the idea of, of course, you can always start over. I really believe that.

And I listened to a lot of people recently about starting over later in life. But, I'm just having these kind of intrusive thoughts of, am I on the right path? I'm not feeling left behind. I'm feeling like misaligned in some way. So I guess I'm just sharing this in case anyone else is feeling slightly similar because it's something that I am aware of. And I guess Marissa's work is about like questioning that, interrogating it and giving it something slightly different, which could be I feel.

feel like I'm slightly off in some ways, but I'm getting back on the past. I guess that's an example of her work in real time. So for anyone else feeling a similar type of way, honestly, guys, I don't know anyone who's not going through it right now. So just as my sign off, like if you were listening in a time of difficulty, I hope the podcast helps because I know that it definitely helped people around COVID when everyone was having, I mean, a personal and collective crisis and I don't know whether something is happening astrologically at the moment but it definitely feels like life is lifing. So I'm sending my love. I hope this episode helped and that you can put some of it into practice and as always remember you are not alone.

Thank you so much for listening. Goodbye.