Saturn Returns with Caggie - Rochelle Fox on Healing, Embodiment, and Manifesting a Magnetic Life

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

In this episode, Caggie is joined by Rochelle Fox, meditation expert, author of Magnetic, and founder of the app MindSpo. Diagnosed with PTSD in 2012, Rochelle has navigated a challenging path, grappling with anxiety, depression, and night terrors before discovering the life-changing impact of meditation and mindfulness. Rochelle opens up about how her healing journey has evolved through self-awareness, embodiment, and finding peace within. She discusses how meditation helped her manage thoughts, overcome trauma, and connect with her true self. Rochelle also shares insights into her personal growth, the importance of community building, and the role of self-acceptance in living a fulfilling life. Topics covered in this episode: 🪐Rochelle's mental health struggles and her diagnosis of PTSD 🪐How meditation became a tool for healing and self-discovery 🪐The significance of embodiment and being true to oneself 🪐Building a supportive community through MindSpo 🪐The role of introspection and journaling in personal growth 🪐Navigating the rise and commercialisation of spirituality 🪐How being present in the moment is key to manifestation and living a magnetic life 🪐Practical tips for tuning into your intuition and embracing your unique essence Rochelle reflects on the evolution of wellness practices, the shift from eccentric to mainstream spiritual trends, and how we can each cultivate peace and connection within ourselves. Tune in to hear her inspiring journey! — Thank you to our sponsors, Fushi, for making this episode possible! I created a beauty blend with Fushi to give you that glowy, dewy look. It features Fushi’s freshly pressed, organic oils, which I swear by! This glow-boosting ritual is all about simplicity, self-care, and deeply nourishing your skin.  Shop ‘Caggie’s Glow Ritual’ bundle now at fushiwellbeing.com and get 20% off with the code CAGGIE20. If this episode resonated, don’t forget to follow, share, and leave a review. Your feedback helps us reach more people seeking clarity, growth, and self-understanding. Discover more from Saturn Returns: 🪐 Instagram, YouTube and TikTok 🪐 Order the Saturn Returns book: Click here 🪐 Join our community newsletter: Sign up here 🪐 Explore all things Saturn Returns: Visit our website 🪐Follow Caggie on Instagram: @caggiesworld

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Or just click the link in the show notes. Here's to slowing down, tuning in, and letting your skin glow naturally. Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Today I have the pleasure of sitting down with Rachelle Fox, meditation teacher, mental health advocate, and co-founder of Mindspo, and author of Magnetic. Rachelle has spent the last decade exploring the connection between mind,

body, and soul, and how we can use ancient practices and modern tools to heal, rewire, and create lives of purpose. In this conversation, we delve into her story, from navigating anxiety and mental health struggles in her early years, to finding solace and empowerment through meditation and mindfulness. She speaks with such raw honesty about the inner work,

the shadows, and the power of turning pain into purpose. I have loved connecting with Rochelle. She is such a beam of light, and I really enjoyed this conversation, and I feel like it's a reminder that you're never truly stuck and that transformation is always possible no matter where you're starting from.

And sometimes the most painful experiences can lead us exactly where we're supposed to be. So I hope you enjoy. Rochelle, welcome to Saturn Returns. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like we've been trying to make this happen for a while, but the stars have aligned, go here with a new book, which is super exciting. How do you feel? I feel like I'm doing exactly what I'm meant to be doing for the first time in a long time.

I think I've always kind of felt like I'm on the path, but now bringing out the book, I'm just really excited. I'm feeling really aligned, really just at ease. I love that. Yeah. And for the audience that might not be familiar with your work, would you be able to share in your own words a little bit about who you are

and what you do? Sure. Look, I'm a girl, just a normal girl that went through a lot of mental health struggles and then found a tool that really transformed my life. That tool was meditation. And it took me from someone that was sad, anxious, depressed, lost to someone now that isn't just surviving, but I would say truly thriving through finding

meditation. I've gone on this journey of personal growth and just exploring all of these different things. I'm like you, I'm a really curious person and I feel like I just go down the rabbit hole on things. And that curiosity has just now led to a beautiful community, which is called Mindspo. And we have an app and now this book and we run retreats.

And I'm just really all about bringing people together and connecting other people to self, to source, and to other people. And when, what was that point where you really felt completely lost? Like what was going on in your life at that time? Ooh, many times. But I would say my absolute breakdown moment was around 2012.

Just being diagnosed with PTSD a little bit before that, so post-traumatic stress disorder, and that's from things that happened in my childhood. And that all started coming up and bubbling to the surface. And I'd been dealing with a lot of symptoms of PTSD for many years. I had bulimia, eating disorder. I had like lots of anxiety, night terrors, depression, like kind of like a whole mental health mix bag.

And every time I used to talk to someone, they would just be like, oh, you know, you're just got an eating disorder or you're just depressed or you're just this. And then finally I found a cognitive behavioral therapist and I, she was the first person I actually told what happened in my life. This kind of long story that I never really get into publicly, but I exposed everything that had happened to me. And she was like, okay, I'll never forget. When I told her that I walked into her room and there was always this big coffee table on her like room that I used to have these meetings in.

And she opened this giant book and she pushed it towards me. And at the top of the book, it said PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. And I read these two pages in this book. And it was like someone finally making sense of everything that had happened to me and what was going on, all of the things that I was going through, the depression, the anxiety, the eating disorder,

it was all linking back to this one diagnosis, which was PTSD. And I think from that moment, I had a name for what I was struggling with. And I felt like I could finally name this thing that I was dealing with. But the name also made me feel really lost because I was like, wow, this is a lot to carry. Like, how do I deal with this? And I kind of went on this very alternative healing journey,

where I was trying everything under the sun, from some conventional routes to some not so conventional routes. And I ended up then finding meditation through a friend. So basically, I had a mutual friend of my partner and eyes and he had heard that there were all these people coming back from Iraq at the time from the US army and they had PTSD from being a soldier and the things that were happening there. And he was like, look, you know, Rachel's got this PTSD diagnosis. Why don't you tell Rochelle about meditation? I remember going, uh, meditation? Like the thing that monks do at the top of like cliffs and orange robes, like, dude, I've just been on SSRIs.

I'm trying, you know, psychedelic mushrooms to try and heal myself and all these alternative things. Like meditation's not going to be the thing. But I sat with that for a little while. And then one day I was home by myself on a bean bag. Um, and this was like the bean bag that my partner used to just sit and smoke weed on. And this was the bean bag that I used to just sit and kind of stare at the wall and kind of be in a days of depression. And I looked up meditation, PTSD, and I found this video and this video was just,

you know, when you sometimes find something in life and it just changes you forever, it was this guy and he was huge. I'm talking like army, massive, like GI Joe kind of looking day with all the medals. And he was talking about meditation and how he had lost his brother in arms to suicide. And then he had basically found meditation since then and how meditation had saved his life. And I was like, if this guy that looks like this says that that meditation thing worked for him, then maybe it could work for me too.

And then from there, I learned meditation and kind of, yeah, the journey goes from there. But I would say back in 2012, that was rock bottom, lost, confused. And how old were you then? So I'm 34 now, 2012, 2003, 2021, 22. Okay. Yeah. So quite a significant transitional period as we kind of go into adulthood.

And, and did you feel aware at the time that what you were experiencing was connected to something that had happened when you were younger? Yeah, it was when I became sexually active in my teens, I started to realize, oh, there's things happening here that are bringing up old things that are not so good. And I think from the ages of 16, there were things going on that weren't making sense that everyone was going, oh, she's just a teenager. She's just going through stuff. But it was kind of escalating. But like what kind of things?

Just lots of stuff. So I used to have panic attacks all the time at school. I used to have anxiety nonstop. I used to have night terrors nonstop. I used to get just kind of unexplainable illnesses in the sense of like my, I'd have crippling headaches and I wouldn't understand where the headache was coming from. Then would take me to go get like a scan of my head and they'd be like, there's nothing wrong with her. Why is she getting these headaches? But it was all this just like deep down trauma that was just like slowly leaking into all of these other symptoms, all of these other things for years. And it was at 2012, I was kind of reaching breaking point. And that was just slowly leaking into all of these other symptoms, all of these other things for years. And it was at 2012, I was reaching breaking point.

And that was when I couldn't hide it anymore, because I'd become so good at hiding. I was so good at wearing a mask and being like, hey, I'm all good. I've got it all together. Because I was just so scared of asking for help. And what age did the trauma happen? Five, six, seven. Five, six, seven.

Five, six, seven. And did you remember it? Not all of it. It was kind of like, as I got older, things would just unlock. So it was just like an unlocking of things. And I think the worst thing is around 2012, I started having like severe night terrors. And what would they be?

That would just be like middle of the night, hot sweats, get up screaming, just like completely paralyzed lot of, um, what's it called again? A sleep paralysis. Yeah. Oh, I hate saying that word. Have you ever had sleep paralysis? I haven't, but I remember a lot of friends of mine, a lot of guy friends of mine actually, when we were like partying quite heavily, they were experiencing it.

So like if we'd had like, I don't know, a couple of big nights out, they would tell me that when they'd gone to sleep, that they would wake up in the night, but their whole body wouldn't move. It's horrible. And I think when you're like, I think it was connected to drinking

and perhaps other stuff, but it sounded like the worst thing. And I also had like a guy friend in particular that he would party really heavily and he would get it so badly, but it was almost, yeah, it sounded like the most horrendous horror film, like Nightmare. Horror film is a really good way to describe sleep paralysis. For me, it sounds like a, used to sound like a freight train. It has been years and years and years since I had sleep paralysis. I can't even remember the last time that happened, but back in 2012, that was, it

was kind of this tipping point when you just couldn't ignore it anymore. I was so good at ignoring it and suppressing it and finding ways around it. But that was when I was really, really lost. And the sleep paralysis for you was that it was waking up, but your body is not moving. Yeah. And just like, basically it would sound like a freight train. So I'd just be like laying there at night and then all of a sudden I'd be paralyzed and I would just hear like a freight train coming at me and I just couldn't get away from it. I couldn't move. It would just, yeah, it's, it's horrific. It's horrible. Sleep paralysis is the weirdest, most horrible

thing. Do you have dreams as well? Or was it mainly like... A lot of my trauma was like an unlocking. So I would have moments where I remember things, but with the sleep paralysis, it would just be, I feel like my body was holding on to so much at that point that every time I tried to sleep or I tried to sit in stillness or I just tried to, I guess, be with my thoughts and I didn't have a way of managing my thoughts. It would just become all too much. And I guess it's all stored in the body, right? Yeah, the body keeps the score. It's a wild thing. I think we don't realize how much we're holding on to sometimes until we finally start to crack. And I feel like a lot of people that will be listening to this will have heard of PTSD, but how do you actually define it in the terms that when you opened up that coffee

book with the therapist did that you were like, this is describing me. So PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder is basically ongoing trauma from like a traumatic event. So something happened and then you're kind of reliving and experiencing that over and over. So for me, it was just a continuous unlocking of the things that had happened. And I guess sort of a, how do I describe it? Like a rediscovering of things that had once occurred

that I'd forgotten and dealing with those things because I never dealt with them back then. But dealing with them, I guess at the time you said that it was more it manifested in like depression. Yeah, so it wasn't dealing, but it was that was my body's way of dealing with the stored stuff because I hadn't actually like faced it front on. And with the because you said that when you went to see people about it, they're like,

oh, you've just got an eating disorder. How were you able to distinguish like, this isn't just an eating disorder, this is like coping with something that's happened to me. So I never really, I saw a lot of people and I never really told anyone until this cognitive behavioral therapist and my partners in the past, what the deep stuff had happened. So I think everyone that I saw just looked at me and they looked at what I was doing in the industry I was in. I was like modeling and DJing and entertainment well back then.

And I think it was just kind of like, oh, you just have an eating disorder. And it was just like a label kind of put on me. That said, I wasn't really feeling trusting to open up to these people and really deep dive into what was going on. And I think for me, it was, yeah, like a lot of shame. I think people that have trauma or things that have happened, it can be really confronting, finding your safe person, finding that safe space to be able to express things, and also try to make sense of it. I think that that's a really difficult thing when we're dealing with trauma and we're dealing with things from the past. Trying to make sense of everything that's coming up can be a lot because

it can feel so fragmented. And that's really difficult when you're just getting these fragments of memories and these things that are reoccurring, it is really hard for the mind to just kind of be like, Oh, this, it doesn't necessarily all make sense. It's not a cohesive line of events in my mind. Anyway, it was just these absolute kind of fragments like the sleep paralysis. I'd get like slides and memories of things. And then I would just have these crazy reactions and panic attacks.

Yeah. I used to get like a lot, a lot of panic attacks. I was a panic attack pro that they're not funny. But have you ever had a panic attack? I actually don't think I have. I feel like the closest experience, because I always get, you know, there's anxiety attacks and panic attacks and I sometimes get them sort of confused with how one is defined versus the other.

There's only, there's been like two occasions, one when I was living in LA and I was like, you know, going through this big transition, I felt like I was putting so much pressure on myself. I was in my late twenties and I felt like I was desperately trying to hold everything together, but the more I tried, the more it fell apart. And I was driving to the studio where I was like working at the time and I like suddenly like just couldn't breathe. And I started crying and then I couldn't breathe more

and just like pulling over and like, I didn't feel like I was dying. So I know some people explain that, but I just felt like my body was turning on me. And that was one. And then there was another time when I was in Mexico. And I hadn't really, I was out there working, but I was also like with my brother at the time, his girlfriend, and then this friend that I was working with. And I remember we were out at dinner and I was feeling like off, like I wasn't really sleeping properly. I felt very anxious and then just suddenly like I couldn't breathe.

And I remember like leaving the table, but it was like this horrible thing where if anyone came close to me, I felt like even more panicked. And my brother was like trying to comfort me, but it was making it worse. And actually, the friend that I was with at the time that I was working with, he's a producer and he's like really, really chilled. And he came down and I was like really mortified that he was seeing me like in this state. And he didn't say anything. He didn't like look like, cause some people, you know, they kind of feels like they're judging you. They're not, but they're just

like, don't know what to do. And he came over and just sat next to me with like enough space in between him and I, and just like look straight ahead and then just started doing breathing exercises. We love him. And I just like started following his breath and just like was able to calm down because of course, like when my brother's like, what's going on? Like touching me, you can't speak. And you're trying to, you're trying to explain the unexplainable because you don't actually know what's going on. It makes it worse. And I don't know whether that's like an anxiety attack or whatever, but

your producer friend sounds like a green flag King. We like him. Shout out to him. But like how, like what does a panic attack? For me, for like, it's been years since I had one, but it literally just feels a complete collapsing and tightening of the chest, losing my breath, not being able to speak. Back in the day, I used to feel like I was having a heart attack and I used to just be so worried that I was just like losing myself. And I would, I do this thing where I would hyperventilate

so much that I would get so much air into my stomach. Then I would just start like having these crazy, it sounds really sexy, but burps. It was just this like insane, like burping, gurgling, like anxious kind of just my whole entire system would feel like it's like collapsing in and then I'd lose hunger after that. And I'd just feel sick.

And sometimes I'd throw up during them. If I like hyperventilated enough, I'd get myself in so much of a state. Yeah. And those were happening quite regularly. Yeah. So I'd met my partner around 2012, like just before I'd been like diagnosed with PTSD and everything. And I think it was my partner who's now my fiance, Chris, he's kind of encouragement

of like, we're going to figure this out. Like there's got to be something going on here. And it was almost like when I got, he know what had happened. Yeah. Yeah. It's like when I got into this safe space with this man that was just there, it was like, my body was kind of unleashing everything. It was like, okay, we're safe to actually let all of this out.

So in some ways finding that safe space in a person kind of in a weird way, when I actually really think about it now, it's been so long since I've thought about this exact moment, but it was like that was my body going, okay, we're going to allow things to come out. There's like a purging that's occurring. Cause you have someone that can hold space for you and it's safe. Yeah. And someone that also really deeply cared about mental health. And understood it.

Yeah, my partner, so he doesn't mind me sharing this story, but he lost his father to suicide when he was around five or six. And I think for him, when we met each other, he was like, in some ways there was a bit of a trauma bond there because it was, I lost my father. I've now found someone that needs help. I'm going to just help them and do everything I can to get them across the line. And I don't remember there was some of these friends that were like, what are you doing

with this girl? She's a nutter. Like she's lost it. Like why are you like this? Out of all the eggs, you've chosen this absolute hard egg. Um, but I'm so happy that, you know, he stuck it out with me and we've now developed like a really beautiful relationship that's transcended trauma bonds and all that kind of stuff and

now built like a gorgeous conscious relationship. But at the beginning there was a lot that we were both dealing with. But it sounds like he was quite instrumental to the journey. Yeah, he was. He was very, you know, when you meet men that are just able to hold space for all of your emotions, he's that, he's kind of a beautiful container where it's just safe to be myself and all of myself. And I love that about him. He was raised by like his mom. And I probably should tell her one day, like sit down with her and buy her a drink and tell her how much of a good job. She did a good job, man. Like I shout out to moms out there, right. That are,

you know, raising kids, cause you, you can just see it in the adults. And I do this quite often. I met this woman at actually the airport and I, it was watching her little daughter and I just pulled her aside and I said, I just wanna let you know that you have programmed her subconscious so well. And she just looks at me. And then it was so nice. She actually ended up,

she just sent me a DM the other day. She like ended up buying my book and everything, which is kind of a wild story. But I just said to her, I was like, wow, like I can really see how much of a good job you've done as a mom. And I think sometimes when we meet incredible people, testament to their parents, the way that they raised them. 100%.

Yeah, his mom did a really good job and he's a really good person. And for the kind of meditation chapter that then kind of put you on this path, for those that maybe have explored it a little bit, but don't really know in its entirety what it can do, would you be able to delve into that for everyone? Sure. Meditation is an incredible practice that can be completely life-changing. And I think it's something that is for everyone. If you have a mind, you can meditate.

I do think it's something that people have a lot of resistance to, because in a world that's telling us to go, go, go, go, go. Meditation is this tool that tells us to stop and slow down. And the mind goes, Oh, what am I doing? I'm not doing anything. I think I always say to people, um, you know what meditation isn't about stopping your thoughts, right? It's just about becoming aware of your thoughts and gaining more, you know, controlness and flow over your thoughts.

And I think that we have this unrealistic expectation that we're meant to sit down and stop our thoughts and stop thinking. And I always say, well, you've been breathing since you were born. Would you tell your lungs to stop breathing? Your heart's been beating since you were born. Would you still tell your heart to stop beating? Like this is what the body does, right? Like our body is constantly doing the things that it does.

Our hair grows, our eyes blink. We don't go into meditation and say, stop the mind. It's just playing with the mind, playing with our awareness and getting a better kind of control over our awareness and where it goes. And by getting better control over our awareness, we can get better control over our lives. We can start to direct our energy and our attention and our thoughts and be more intentional about where we want to put our time and put our energy and what we want to focus on. And meditation for me has been this beautiful devotion of getting to know myself because I believe that the relationship that you have with you and the relationship that I have

with myself, these are the longest relationships we are ever going to have in our life. And meditation is simply sitting with ourselves, learning to be with ourselves and to nurture that relationship that is going to be with us until we leave this earth. And it's for me being this beautiful journey of learning how to become my own best friend, learning how to love myself, flaws and all. Cause sometimes I meditate and like, that's a lot to focus on. That's a lot to face, but it's been this deepening of a connection with myself and investing in my relationship with me. Was it an instant click for you meditation?

No, not necessarily. I, um, I learned meditation and I was still having a lot of doubt over it. I was like, you know what this thing like for me at first it was just showing up and just doing, so I, I practice mantra based meditation. What is that in comparison to other types of meditation? It's a meditation type where you repeat a certain sound vibration over and over in your mind. So rather than a guided meditation where someone would take you on a journey of visualizing or gratitude or taking you into, you know, certain situations to focus on certain things, mantra meditation is having one sound, one sound

vibration that you just repeat over and over. And it's really a form of meditation that strengthens and trains your awareness. It's kind of like doing reps at the gym because you're constantly coming back to that sound vibration. Um, and for me, it's some, for some people, it can feel a little bit more of a, a disciplined form of meditation, uh, because it's not as creative and the mind isn't flowing, but for me, it's what's actually allowed my mind to find stillness. We are adding in so much to our minds every single day. The amount of information that gets input into our consciousness, this day and age is wild. And for me, meditation is when I empty the cache,

I always say like meditation has become my medication, but it's also just as you would brush your teeth every single morning and you wouldn't go outside without brushing your teeth. I'm sure you wouldn't have started this interview unless you brush your teeth this morning. Um, meditation is the toothbrush for the mind. It's that mental hygiene. It's the thing that allows me to clear the cache and to kind of allow everything

inside my mind to settle, to find stillness, to not add something else in, but just to allow things to just find their own equilibrium. So that's what mantra meditation has really done for me. Is it something that you do at the start of every day? Yeah, the start of every day and sometimes in the afternoon. While I've been in London with book launch things, afternoon meditations have been necessary. And when you were going through this difficult situation at like 21 and you discovered meditation, because I think a lot of, you know, we spoke about how people don't want to sit with their own thoughts

or like constantly distracted in a world where we're being told go, go, go all the time. There's also the sitting with ourselves where there's feelings that we don't want to feel or experiences come up that we don't want to think about. So how was that for you? Because I think that that's something that can stop people from doing it. I think sometimes the only way through is through, do you know what I mean? And I think for me, it was this, I needed to desperately sit with myself, rather than try and distract myself from what I'd been trying to avoid my whole entire life. So although sitting in meditation and listening to my own thoughts was the last thing I wanted to do, and felt like the most insane thing to do with what

I was going through, it actually ended up being the most healing because it actually gave me awareness over them. And I started to realize that my thoughts are just thoughts. Just because I have a thought doesn't mean that it's me. Thoughts are just things. And just because I have a thought doesn't mean I have to focus on it. Doesn't mean I have to go on a rabbit hole down it. I can just be aware of it and I can let it go. I can move my attention somewhere else. I can move my awareness somewhere else.

And before I learned meditation, I had no gap between the voice within, which I like to call, you know, I have a nice voice within as well. But I did definitely have a really intense inner bitch. I had like a girl that was just tearing you down. Horrible. Like I would not wish her to be friends with anyone because she was just stabbing me in the back. And she was this very negative, very rude, very condescending, very messy human that just was so tightly congested. And I was constantly getting stuck in these thoughts and I would have a thought and I would think that it was me.

I would think, oh, I'm shit or I suck or no one's ever going to love me or I'm broken. And I would just take that on as labels. Like I'm broken. I suck. I'm not enough. And these would be the things that I believed about myself. And instead, I just started to see that these were just thought loops. These were just patterns that I'd had inside my mind. They're not actually who I was or and a lot of the things that would come up were actually things

that people had said to me back in the day. And I was like, well, this isn't my voice. This is someone else's voice that I've just taken on and imprinted into my own consciousness. And then it's playing on a loop. And then when I got to sit in meditation, I would then be able to sit and watch my thoughts and I'd watch these voices. And then if I could watch them, then who's watching them? Am I the thoughts? No, that for me was the penny drop moment. I'm like, well, I'm not actually these things inside my head.

They're just thoughts and they're not actually me. And do you still have those thoughts now? Of course. I like to describe it like this. So I used to have an inner bitch that was driving my car. So let's imagine we're not in a self-driving car. We're in a car. Give me a car. What kind of car do you like? First car that came to mind was a Toyota. Toyota, that's fine. I like it. We're in your Toyota and we can drive a Toyota. What color is the car?

Blue blue. I'm influencing you. The blue nails, the blue dress, the blue book cover. Um, so we're in your blue Toyota for me in my own blue Toyota back in the day, my inner bitch used to be taking the wheel and I used to be in the passenger seat, kind of yelling at her to stop, to slow down. And she would just be driving and rampaging and running into things kind of like someone playing call of duty or, um, GTA on like a crazy way. Um, and I would just be kind of moving with this, this person that was just taking the wheel of my life. And I'd be shouting things at her, but she was the one in charge these days.

I like to say for a few years, I got the inner bitch on the passenger seat. Then I got her in the back seat. And now I like to say that she's in the boot of the blue Toyota with a gobs macaron and I've got a tied up and sometimes she's squirming and yelling and saying things, but her voice now isn't center stage. She hasn't got control these days. I have a GPS, which is my higher self. I'm tuned in to that beautiful navigation of self, of source, and I can listen to that and that's really guiding me.

And look, the inner bitch is still in the car. We haven't quite gotten rid of her. And I think it's a good thing she's still in the car because she's there to teach me things and to show me where I've adapted things that maybe don't serve me. She's got a lot of things that I needed to sit with. And just like me or any person or any part of myself,

I just think my inner bitch and the person that was struggling just needed love. At the end of the day, it was just a part of me that felt like they weren't loved or they weren't heard and they weren't understood. A lot of it was like little me that felt in moments you weren't seen or wasn't protected or wasn't safe. And then that then grew into a really nasty bitch that you was unleashing. It's like the, you know, the bullies at school, then you kind of find out that actually, you know, maybe they're being bullied at home or like they have this insecurity and that's where it's all stemming from.

Because I think we all have that, but like you say, it's just about getting it under control and managing it in whatever way that you can. We have no idea what everyone else is going through and that's a hard thing. It doesn't excuse everything, but I think sometimes when you sit with someone you go, ah, that makes sense. Or you meet someone's parents or their sister or you hear about their past and things suddenly go, ah, got it. And it's so easy as well to think like, oh, everyone else, like they've just got it all figured out or like they don't have any problems. And like it's so true when they say

you never know what battle someone is fighting, like internally. But on another note, I wanted to speak to you about, cause obviously like the book and manifesting, like this is such a big part of your message and your life now. How did that kind of come about as a result of, you know, what we were just discussing?

So once I learned meditation and I started to silence that inner bitch and she started to get in the passenger seat for the first few years, I became really curious. I think the awareness and the shift that I started to see with myself in meditation and all of the healing that started to happen really within like the first three to six months of learning meditation. I was like, what else is there? Like strap me in. I'm ready to go there.

Like, let's go. Like give me the books, give me the documentaries. I was so excited and curious. And I felt like there was a whole other world that had been hidden from me, a world that. I couldn't see. And you know, so much of what I talk about now is not really things that you can see it's energy, but there was this whole world that I wanted to explore. And I got into the law of attraction and manifesting and everything really

through meditation. Um, and just the idea that with. In like with clear intention and with feeling that you could bring things into your reality. And I think the thing that really kind of struck me from that early on age was you can create your reality. I don't have to keep living the same patterns and loops that I'd been in my whole entire life. I actually have more control than I thought I did. And that was really, really like inspiring to me because I was very much in

that victim mentality where I thought that life happened to me. And then I moved to the state where I was understanding, Oh, no, life is happening for me. I'm influencing this thing. Oh, I can be really intentional about what it is that I want to create. And that was really exciting for someone that had definitely felt like, oh my gosh, I'm just being hit by life and battled down by life. Because around that time was when the secret came out and there was that massive movement towards this space and the law of attraction and everything. So how did you then start to implement that into your life? Ooh, I, I just started getting really clear on what it is that I desire.

I started playing with what do I want to create? What do I want to do? What is, what does life look like for me? What's my vision? That was kind of like my original place. I just started getting really curious about the idea of creating a life that I loved, not just a life that everyone told me, like, this is going to be your life. This is what life looks like. I'm like, what if it looks like something else?

I was just very much going against the grain and just starting to play with what I want to create a life and what it would look like if I was to design a life of my own choosing. That was a really exciting thought for me. It didn't have to be like anyone else's life. It That was a really exciting thought for me. It didn't have to be like anyone else's life. It could be what I desired it to be. And that was exciting. And how much has the life that you live now matched up with that? A lot. A lot?

Yeah. I've been a digital nomad now for, I think it's like eight or so years. I've lived completely nomadically. I live in Bali and like all around Europe and just move around and have like a retreats business and an app and like, I have all these things. They're all just complete creations. Like everything I've ever done has started with like just a thought inside my head. I always, it sounds a little woo,

but it is what's happened in my life. I have like a voice, like a voice that comes to me and tells me things and says, try this, do this. And that for me is ever since I learned meditation, there's been this very, very strong voice that has guided my life in so many different ways. I feel very of service to that voice. Um, and it's been this unfolding of, it will give me an idea or it will implant something in my magnetic mind. And then it's like, okay, well, I'll bring this into fruition. Like, let's go with it.

And all of the things that it's ever said, it's been so aligned for me. They've been like deep desires and things that have felt just so. Meant for me, and they've always been connected to somehow helping other people or bringing this work to other people, which is really cool because I love what I do so much. I'm from getting that down though because I feel like a lot of people have that voice and I also feel like a lot of people don't listen to it or they think initially, oh wow, that's a really good idea and that feels like something I should follow. But then the other voice is creeping, whether that's the bitch in the boot or whatever,

and kind of starts bringing in doubt and, oh, well, you've got this going on. You can't possibly do that and you don't have time. You've left it too late. All of those things. How do you kind of counteract that and know which one is worth following? Because I, on a personal level, I feel like I get so many ideas that I'm sometimes like, Oh my God, I don't know which one to follow. And it can feel very overwhelming. And then I'm like, I don't know where to, where to begin. And like, I can often get, um, stuck at the first hurdle, You know, if there's an obstacle with realizing that vision or creation,

I'm like kind of stuck. The first thing I would say is I read about this in the book, there's a very big difference between things that you want and things that you desire. So when I was writing the book, I got kind of obsessed with words. As you do, I found myself reading the thesaurus a lot and trying to understand where the words come from, what are the energetics behind a word. And one thing that became really interesting for me was the word want actually originates from the, um, old Norse word vaanta, which literally

translates to be, to be lacking or to be without. And I think a lot of the time we'll have things that come into our consciousness. I'm not saying this is what's happening for you, but a lot of the time we have things that come into our consciousness that are coming from a place of lack or coming from a place of I'm needing to fill a hole or I'm needing to be enough, or I'm needing to satisfy this unworthiness that I have, or this need to be loved or adored by other people by doing this thing. And I think when we are chasing our wants, it can feel really exhausting because

we're going towards things from a place of lack and not having. And so the energetics are really off. Whereas the word desire, this actually translates from the Latin word decider or decider, which basically means to wish from the stars and the stars will breathe to bring it's this beautiful, like the actual energetics of the word is literally from the stars above to get something from the divine. And I would say the first thing I'd get really, really clear on what is it that you want that you feel is a lacking thing that is trying to feel a hole and what is

like a desire that you feel is heart and soul aligned like a fuck. Yeah. That's an exciting thing that I would first start to think about, like what feels like it's electric to you that is really meant for you. And it is coming not just from the Instagram algorithm because it's currently trending. Um, cause I think there's a lot of things that we're on such a trend based kind of cycle these days where we're told we need these things.

But so many of the things that we see that we start wanting or we feel we need, we don't actually need or want. They're just there like to fill some kind of hole. So I'd get really, really clear on like, what are your deep desires? What are the things that are connected to passions that you have when you were little, like, for example, you brought out your singing. Yeah. Like I was actually thinking, yeah.

So for me, when I saw your singing stuff come out, I was that to me is a desire. Like this is your desire coming to fruition. It's you just playing with this medium. And I loved it because it had this energy behind it for me personally. I was like, oh yeah, she's following her soul's calling with this. And it's something for yourself and it's for other people. But I just has an energy behind it and I can feel that. Would you say that's a desire of yours? That's interesting because when you were just describing that, I was thinking about my relationship to music and singing and on one hand, I was thinking about my relationship to music

and singing. And on one hand, I felt like it's been so innate in me because it's been since childhood that it's something I love to do. But I would also say that it's wrapped up in a lot of confusing feelings that has tied it to a sense of self-worth, historically, perhaps more than now, that it would, it always felt like an area that I would be judged in and I wouldn't be able to handle that judgment. And that if it was, went badly or well, would determine my self worth. So I think it's almost a both, you know, it's like something that is obviously a desire of mine because I've always had it, but it's definitely something that I constantly abandon. You know, like I'll start and then I get like, I don't know, I'll find distractions

or I'm like, Oh, it doesn't really, you know, it doesn't really make sense to my career. And people will be like, what is she doing? This is so random. It doesn't have to make sense. You're an artist, babe. You're an artist. Nothing needs to make sense. I'm just here for your art. Anyone that's here for anything else, then just leave. No, don't leave. Subscribe and leave a great review. But honestly, you're an artist. That's like, that's how I see you anyway. I just see you as an absolute like artistic expression. And you just happen to have like a banging podcast, which is great. But you're an artist. I love that. That makes me really happy because I think I've always felt like I'm, I want to be, but I'm an imposter're an artist. I love that. That makes me really happy because I think I've always felt like I'm, I want

to be, but I'm an imposter as an artist. Oh no, you're an, yeah. I just see you as an artist and that imposter syndrome is so deep in so many of us, right? It's something that so many of us can feel even towards our desires. And I would say then what really needs to happen is that like subconscious reprogramming work, that work to start it to uncover like where does that imposter syndrome come from? Because

we have so many patterns and things that can kind of cloud our desires and tell us that we're not good enough for them and that we don't even really want them. Yeah. And put us on like a weird route and voices from the past. And I think that, but you know, it's a desire. Well, I know it's a desire because I always come back to it. But then the trickery of the mind that tells you the wrong time, you can't do it. Well, that didn't go very well. I loved it.

I'm ready for more. I'm waiting for more. But how can I, I'm going to kind of use this on a personal, like how can I kind of combat that, I guess like, bitch in the boot that's always going to be telling me I can't do it or shouldn't do it or have left it too late or no one cares and no one wants it and it doesn't make sense. And it's, it's actually like not the path that I'm on anymore. And all of those kind of narratives.

First thing I would do is I'd get out a piece of paper and I'd write down every single little thing that you just started saying now. So get really, really clear on all of the words that are coming up. All of the sentences, all of the beliefs, all of the little things that are coming up, no matter how small or how big they are, just write them all down

and just start to see the language around it and just see it on a piece of paper. Rather than just seeing it in your it and just see it on a piece of paper, rather than just seeing it in your head and battling with it up here, just put it all out there. The next thing I would do after that is I'd start exploring like a technique to help you move through it. So one of my favorite that I talk about in the book is EFT, emotional freedom technique. Have you ever done tapping? No, I've done, actually, I was not sure I have done tapping once. Yeah, I love EFT. It didn't, it didn't connect with me at the time.

Didn't connect with me when I first did it. I thought it was weird. And I was like, I don't want to be touching my hands with my face so much. I was like, I don't know, but I obsessed with EFT now. Emotional freedom techniques be massive for me, just moving through limiting beliefs and things that felt stuck in my body, where I felt like, why am I having this kind of reaction to this thing? Why do I feel blocked around this thing, tapping through it? And literally like, I feel like an imposter. And what does that actually do? It starts to work

with your brain basically to one, it works when you're a plasticity. So when you start doing EFT regularly, because you're constantly repeating different phrases related to the things you feel blocked around, you can start to rewire your mind in a really beautiful way. The tapping also works with our amygdala. So basically tapping your tapping on all of these different meridian points. So it's rooted in Chinese medicine. And it's just an incredible tool that for me, EFT has just become this kind of go to tool in the toolbox. Whenever I feel that there is a limiting belief or something related to something big that I want to do, I'll just tap through it. And it allows you to start releasing the emotions related to it. And

I find whenever I tap, I'll start all this like TMI, but so much saliva, like I will start tapping and I will start coughing or there'll be like so much saliva, like I will start tapping and I will start coughing, or there'll be like so much saliva and it'll be swallowing lots. Like you can literally feel the emotions. Sometimes I'll start sweating a lot and I'll get chills and I'll be tapping through things and like literally saying the things that I'm tapping through out loud. So for example, you'd be saying I'm an imposter. Singing makes me feel like an imposter. And you would be actually affirming and saying that out loud and tapping on

these meridian points, which is then bringing up those emotions and allowing them to move through your body. Right. Okay. So it's a, it's a way, and then presumably you can have quite an emotional response. Yeah. And it's an amazing tool. So I love doing EFT with a practitioner or just doing like EFT videos.

I have like a whole entire video on Mindsbow with a bit more of the science behind it and how it like works. But it's one of these techniques that for me, when I do EFT, I feel when I first found it, I was a bit, I don't know about that. Because you're saying the negative things out loud. You're affirming the negative. Yeah. And it was after doing it a bunch of times, I realized, hang on a second, this is why this tool is so healing because I'm actually getting into these negative phrases, these things that I would normally hide away and not say out loud.

And then by tapping on them, I'm moving through them and allowing those emotions to flow through me. And then you can also do some reframing, you know, say some more positive affirmations, but it's really about getting into like the core things that you say inside your own mind, the beliefs and tapping through them and bringing them to the surface. It's been for me, one of those tools that I just, I got really into it when writing the book. Um, I had so much imposter syndrome come up when I was writing the book and this was like a hell yeah desire for me. This is like such a soul calling, but I, oh yeah. And that's the thing, isn't it? It's often the thing that we feel like we want most, we'll have the most resistance around. And I always find that very

frustrating because then like it just comes across and you could apply that to like, I don't know, meeting someone and you sabotaging it and running away or writing a book or releasing music or performing or whatever it might be. But it's like, to the person on the outside, it can look like you just don't care or you don't want it. And the truth is, you really deeply desire it so much so that you stop yourself from getting it. Yeah, I think it's almost the fear of having what we truly desire and maybe the fear of not achieving it as well. It's we can use that fear of what happens if I didn't get it.

You know what I mean? Like if I tried so harder, if I went for it and it didn't happen, I failed. It's kind of like that protector part that comes up that steps in and goes, well, no, I'm just going to self-sabotage you and create all these issues. So you won't even go for it because I don't even want you to experience disappointment. And I think that is a challenging thing. But for me, anytime I've ever moved through anything that's come up like that, and I've sat with her and I've meditated on it, or I visualized on it, I've done EFT or breath work or any kind of releasing tool around it as being so profound because on the other side of that fear is just so much liberation, so much love and also so much purpose and alignment. And I never want to get to the end of my life and think, Oh, why didn't I do that? And I often think

about the regrets of the dying and how so many people get to the end and literally sit there and wish they lived a life that was more on purpose for them. And I always say like, you've got one shot at being you. Like this is your life. I don't know if we get to do this thing again, but I know I've got one shot at Rochelle Fox. And once this shot is over, then I'm not going to be back in this meat puppet in this body doing this thing. My soul might be in a dolphin.

Let's hope it's a dolphin because I really love the ocean. Calling in a dolphin. Let's hope it's a dolphin. Cause I really love the ocean. Calling in a dolphin. Um, but I, I'll be in incarnated or in something else. And I've got one shot at me. So you just, I believe you've got to go all out. You've got to just dive in, do the things that scare you. And sometimes you have to do them at a more gentler pace. It doesn't mean you have to have the biggest vision and go all out. One thing I really wanted to talk a little bit about in the book and make people aware of is that your big dream is your big dream. And everyone's big dream looks different for them.

It's not about what someone else has on Instagram or what society says is success for you. It's about you finding what lights you up, what turns you on, what is your yes. And that's completely different for everyone. I wish more people realized that. Rather than just adopting this one idea of success and chasing the same dreams. Yeah. And just thinking that it has to look a certain kind of way. I think we get so, I'm a very visual person. What star sign are you again? Taurus. I'm a Taurus rising. I'm a Libra. And I love like, I'm lever rising. Yeah. Oh, synergy. I love like the aesthetics of things, right? I love things to look a certain kind of way. I really enjoy that. It's the Venecian in me. It's fun. It's beautiful. It's my

femininity, but it's, it's funny because I think that we get too caught up on how things look. Totally. And how people perceive them. Your dream life isn't about what it looks like. It is about how it feels. Right? You could be having a life that looks a certain kind of way, but let me tell you, if the feeling

isn't behind it, if it doesn't feel right, your life is not going to be anything like you actually wanted it to be. It's just gonna be front-facing. It's kind of like doing the front of a renovation of a house, but then living in a dilapidated house out the back, it's like, yeah, it looks real shiny for everyone on the outside, but when you get in, that's the real experience.

Like, that's why meditation for me is so important, because like, it's my relationship within. Yes, it trickles to my relationship outside and it allows me to have more presence, more purpose. It, I think it allows me to be a more centered, peaceful person. Cause I wasn't very centered or peaceful before I found this tool. And it's really leveled me out, but it's that relationship inside and how things feel for us that is like actually really important.

And it's how our dreams feel for us, not how they look to other people. But do you not think that because of the landscape of social media that the focus is on the external? Oh, yeah. But that's where we get lost. And that also can get the sort of confusing thing about it is it can take people really far and actually achieve a lot of success, but it's not necessarily embodied or lived. Yeah. I think embodied felt and I think embodiment at the end of the day for me has been probably the thing that I was missing most in my own manifestation and creation process that has now become like the absolute core of everything that I

do, like really being embodied in the version of me that I desire to be. That's a really, really important thing. Okay, let's talk about that as a practice for people listening, because I think again, like it's quite easy, especially if you go onto social media, just to get caught up in the surface level of things, and then not the embodiment practice. Embodiment for me, I always say to people is like, what are you doing when no one else is looking? And who are you when no one else is looking?

Yes. It's really about take all of the performance away, take all of the filming away, take all of the numbers away, the people, everything. And how are you when you're just with you? How are you showing up? How are you embodying your day? How are you showing up? How are you embodying your day? How are you making your cup of tea?

And from what energy? The little things. Embodiment for me is such like the little things are the big things. Little changes in how you do things will really change you in like such a big way, just slowing down. Which I guess in a way it is meditation, right? Somewhat.

Meditation, like if you're, it's just being more consciously present with making a cup of tea in the morning and tuning in with yourself and your relationship with yourself in that moment. Yeah. And being intentional about what you wear and how you talk and the music that you listen to and how you move your body. Like a big part of my embodiment practice is dance. I just like, I love putting on like a really good album.

I'm obsessed with this artist at the moment called, um, St. Finnegan and he has this amazing song called surrender. I played at my event the other night in London and it is, I have like a full blown embodied response to that song. It's like this version of me that is fully in my, just in, in like, how would I say it? In my full essence comes through and I just allow myself to move with the music and just show up as like my elevated self. I love that word essence because I feel like we all have our unique essence.

It's like the more that we can tune into that and get it to its most authentic self, the better we're going to feel. And like you said, that then kind of bleeds into other aspects of our life. Having lived in Bali and like lived nomadically in a place that probably I don't know, I have never lived in Bali, but I imagine it's a slower pace, perhaps more spiritually inclined versus a city like London, where I feel like London there's this like constant pressure to be moving super fast. And if you're not moving fast, and you're not stressed, and you're not like doing a million things,

you're not working hard enough, and you're not going to survive. I feel that goes against so much of the things that we're talking about really, which is about slowing the fuck down when it feels like everything is speeding up at the moment. So how do you, do you feel that that's true? And do you notice the difference when you are in places like London? I think every single place in the world has its own vibration and has its own energy and it will bring out different aspects of us as a person. And I think that, uh, going to Bali will not solve your problems. And I think I just want to say that to everyone that's listening.

It's not that you, you know, wherever it, like, I think it's a, I think it is John Kabat-Zinn, he basically said, uh, wherever you are, there you are. Basically. And I think that's such an important thing to realize that you, you're not just going to chill out just because you're in Bali, the environment will help you. Yes. And certain places will help bring things out, but it's really like an internal thing. I, a big believer that I, in a world creates our outer world.

It's the things that are going inside of us that reflect externally. And I think that, uh, although these places can bring an essence and they have a certain vibration and they can help us tap into that energy. I think it's really, really important that we have to start playing with where we're at and not think that somewhere else is going to solve our problems. That's very true. And I, so the funny thing living in Bali for so many years is. I think people come to a place like Bali or come to like any sort of island,

and they think that it's going to solve all their problems. And I think that at the end of the day, like you are the one you've been looking for. It's not a place or a person that's going to solve your problems. It's your relationship with you and your decision to make a change within yourself. So I think the first thing is just like an openness to see things differently. And I would invite anyone that feels like, oh, but I'm living in London and the hustle change within yourself. So I think the first thing is just like an openness to see things differently. And I would invite anyone that feels like, Oh, but I'm living in London and the hustle and the bustle. It's like, well, it's really about the micro moments and the small

choices that you can make. And for example, I'm Australian. So I smile a lot and I say hi to everyone on the street. I think people in London think I'm a psychopath because I'll be walking down the street with my company, morning, morning. And, uh, in Kensington, that has been a very interesting experience while I've been here because I've had some dagger looks at me, I like got the guys at Joe and the juice after getting my tuna sound, we did thanks so much.

And they kind of look at me like, whoa, what is, what is this girl on? Um, but I think you, you have to decide to be different than the environment and show up in a different way. You don't have to become a byproduct. Yeah. And that's one of my, uh, kind of challenges while I was here is I, one of the things I think is challenging about manifestation, but also a beautiful practice in manifestation is being greater than our environment, because it's about us not being kind of set by our environment. So just allowing ourselves to be a certain kind of way, because it is a certain kind of way. So rather than being influenced by the energy in a room, you influence the energy in the room, right? Because you are responsible for the energy that you bring into the room.

And it is so empowering as well. It's an Oprah quote. It's in the book. She said this to me and then like not to me, I was at an event DJing for her and it changed my life. It's like, literally you are responsible for the energy you bring into the room. That one quote that she said, I was like, Oh, my life has changed forever. Um, but that for me is how can I walk into this room and be like, well, the universe sent me here to be in a certain kind of energy. I'm just going to show up and influence this room.

How can you have a little bit more of a smile? How can you sit up a little bit straighter? How can you listen maybe a little bit more than you talk, or how can you have a little bit more presence today? And it's not about trying to change everything at once or becoming this completely perfect spiritual person or having this idea of how you've got to be like this. No, it's about, like we said, finding your essence and tapping into that unique

essence and what is it that you bring to the room? Everyone brings something completely different, just like every single ingredient in a cake, like, you know, those secret recipes that someone will say like, Oh, this is my Greek mom secret recipe. And then you'll find out all the spices that you've never heard that they put in. And you're like, Oh my gosh, wow. Where do I get these from? That's how I feel like people are.

We are these unique spices. We are these essences that we put in things. And when we all come together, we make something delicious and magical, but we all are part of the same whole and we have to be our own unique essence and energy and spice and figure out what that is for us and, and bring that. Like bring your essence to the world. Like if you are bubbly and out there and smiling, yeah, do that. Even if you're in London and Kensington, everyone thinks you're a psychopath.

Like be that person. You'll meet people and people will be attracted to you. Something I write about in the book a lot is, the book's magnetic, right? And the thing that was very clear to me when writing this book is that we talk a lot about attracting, right? Manifestation is like, become magnetic,

attract, attract, attract. But a magnet has two poles. It attracts, but it also repels. That's a true essence of being magnetic. It's not just about attracting. It's also about repelling. I repel a lot of people. I'm sure there's someone that listens to this podcast goes, she's not for me.

I'm off. That was an all right one, Kaggy. I'll wait for the next one. And then there's other people that'll be like, oh my God, I love her maybe. And that's okay because we all have our unique essence and by attracting certain people, we're also going to repel people. And I think that's a powerful thing. It's not, it's not just about being in this like attracting, if you are a super

attractor and you are in this like super powerful energy, you're also going to repel certain people and that is to me a strong magnet. That is just you and your power. It's a balance. Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, on the part about, you know, that shift between you creating that space internally versus saying, I'm in London, therefore I can't, you know, be spiritual, I can't slow down. I think that is really key because one is like taking more of a victimhood mentality of like, I am just the product of my environment and I can't do anything about it.

But also this notion that we can, the responsibility for our own energy and how we can change the room. I was like a podcast clip came up the other day. It was saying how she, you know, in terms of meeting celebrities, and she said that when Kevin Costner walked in the room, she was like, the energy changed. He had this star quality that was just, it's hard to explain, but there was just a shift. And I was thinking, I was like, oh, that's so interesting. But kind of what we're seeing is like, everyone has the capacity to change the energy in the room. It's just, we're not harnessing our essence.

And then beyond that, in terms of the idea that everyone has like their own unique spice or flavor or essence, whatever we want to call it. I think because we spend so much time now on social media, seeing often just the package version and not even knowing truly what that person's essence is like, because we've never felt it in the room. We just see what we think it is and how it comes across and perhaps the numbers and whatever. And we compare ourselves to it. And then that's a constant like a disempowering thing because we're constantly feeling like,

oh, we need to be that, you know, like that person rather than tuning in to who we truly are. And then when we tune into who we truly are, like, I don't think you get the same jealousy. Do you know what I mean? Cause it's like, oh, I'm so good with me that I can appreciate the ingredient that you bring into the room. And actually these work really well together or like you say, we kind of repel one another,

but that's cool as well because at least I'm being true to myself. Yeah. I think there are space for everyone and we all need to bring our unique essence and spice to the world. Cause otherwise it's a really dull, boring place. There are so many people that are just trying to be carbon copies of one another and it's like, you're one, you're one of one baby. Why are you trying to be someone else? Like you, you came here as you, like this is your one shot at you. Like, why are you even trying to fit into someone else's shoes? Like they're already filled.

Stop trying to stand in something that's already filled. I completely agree. Yeah. And how do people like, if people are listening to this and feeling like a bit lost on where to begin and tuning into that part of themselves, because I know definitely during like a Saturn return, we often have this feeling of, I don't know who I am. I've been pretending, I've been trying to please my parents or tick these boxes and left with this sense of an identity crisis. How can we start? I think get clear.

The first thing I would say is just get curious. Be super open to being super curious about yourself and just question things. Play with things, play with things, try new things on. Don't just stay the same way that you've always been and just say like, oh, I've always been like that. No, you haven't always been like that. Try something new. Just start experimenting. Cause I think a lot of the time we don't even know who we are and we don't even find who we are because we're not experimenting and we're not realizing that we can actually create.

We forget that we're the creators of our reality. We forget that we're in that creative hot seat. And I think from that creative hot seat, we can start to get curious and start to experiment and start to realize that life is one big experiment, right? You're going to be experimenting with you for the rest of your life. Like, so just start now. And the more you can start to look at life like an experiment and start to play with it, the more beautiful things I think will unfold for you.

Another thing for me is huge is just journaling, sitting with myself, sitting with music, sitting without distractions, having a designated time every single day where there is no screens, no input, no, no talking or inspiration coming in. Yeah. You could listen to maybe some soft music or something, but allow your mind to just start to talk to you, start to get through. Cause I think so many people feel like they don't have intuition or they can't

hear their intuition. And the thing I would always say to that is, are you giving your intuition a chance to actually come through? Cause it's, I can tell you now your intuition is probably not coming through while you're scrolling, tick tock, or while you're scrolling reels for an hour, your intuition in that moment is in an absolute place of like backseat hypnosis, like it's just drowned out by whatever trending sound is going on. Like your intuition can't get through in those moments. So for me, it's like, look, I love a long shower when we're not in drought in Australia.

I will sit in the shower. I'm a water baby. If you haven't noticed blue mermaids ocean dolphins, where we have some fish in another life. Um, but for me, it's just sitting in any kind of body of water or being near a creek or being in the shower or just spending time where there is no inputs. I think that is such a lost practice. And it's so weird.

I say this, it's a lost practice to sit without input, but I'm sorry, in 2025, deep breath it is, and it's why do we feel like we're so lost? What's the work? Are we actually giving ourselves time to sit with ourselves and find ourselves? Or are we just kind of distracting ourselves constantly? And so disengaged from our intuition. Yeah. And just from silence, just being, having silence, not trying to

get the next dopamine hit. I think you've, and that's when you have to just, and it doesn't even have to be slowing down. It could be while you're going for a run, but going for a run without the hip hop music or the whatever music it is that you listen to or EDM or anything. It's like going for a run and being in silence with yourself. Just being with yourself, yeah. Literally.

So often people ask me, they're like, what's your, you know, what's your spiritual practice, like, or kind of go to? And I always say, I'm like, it's nothing that exotic or exciting. It's just like sitting on the sofa, having, like, I usually play beautiful chorus, and I'll have like incense and candles, and I'm just with myself. And that is the most like important practice that I come back to. And anyone can do that anywhere. Literally.

Like I have an app, but I'll be the first person to tell you, you do not need an app or anything to find yourself or to become spiritual, like spirituality is not a look, it's not a costume. It's just a feeling. It's a way of being, it's a connection with yourself, with source and with other people. It's a returning to love as Louise Hay would say, it's like a tapping back into that thing that's always been inside of us, but we've lost connection with.

And it's to me, I've only ever found that in those moments of stillness or silence or just spaces of less noise, less input. That would be the first place that I would say. And it's amazing when you start to like, turn the dial down and all of the noise outside, and instead start to turn the dial up on yourself, you might actually realize, hey, I fucking like myself. I like who I am.

Actually, no, I love who I am. I get to be with me for the rest of my life. That's an exciting thing. How do you feel about the rise and popularity of spirituality in these practices and the kind of commercialization or commodification? Yeah. Hmm. That's a good question. Of it. Cause it kind of is at odds with what it should be. I haven't really thought about that. For me personally, I haven't found my own spiritual practice to be in that kind of way.

Like I don't feel that. I think there's sometimes I, for example, I meditate religiously every single day. And a lot of people message me saying like, I never see you meditate. You never post meditating. I'm like, I just don't feel myself while I meditate. And I think that sometimes on a spiritual path, there's an interesting kind of balance with what we share versus what we keep to ourselves. And I think that's true with everything in life right now. I think that things will always balance out. So if it seems like that

right now in the world, I would say that things will always find a balance. And I'm just really excited right now that we're living in a time and space where people want to talk about these topics. Back when I learned meditation in 2012, people thought I was bat shit crazy. We didn't have anything out there, right. That was promoting any of this stuff. It was wellness was not a trend. Um, I was the woo woo crazy girl. Um, I had a blog back then that I was writing, I used to do all these fashion posts and I

started doing happiness posts on like a Monday and everyone was like, why is she sitting next to a lake writing about happiness and gratitude? And I just desperately wanted to talk about these topics. So I think it's a beautiful time and space to be alive, where we're able to talk about these topics and that more people are interested. And if people, you know, go down about it in like a very much more commercial way to start off with, I think people always, if they're with the practices,

they'll find a deeper connection than that. And I think that that can be a unique challenge. I do remember a time when I thought spirituality had a look. I thought spirituality was a bit of a cost. Had a costume, had mala beads. Um, gosh, and these days, I think some of the most spiritual, like fucking cool people that I've met in life are the people that you would not even think to be spiritual.

And I've just removed all of that from my own consciousness. Like I can wear, be, do whatever I want and still be spiritual. And no one can tell you how spiritual you are because it's, it's, it's an inner relationship. And I think anytime anyone sort of, you know, judges someone else's spirituality or like, they're not like that. I'm like, do you sit with them in their practice in the morning at their altar? Like, do you, do you know what their relationship is inside their head?

Cause I don't like it's a completely unique relationship that we have. And I think that's a beautiful thing. And in terms of people listening that, you know, like obviously manifestation has become this huge trend and what does it really mean for you? It's like a final note to live a magnetic life. To live a magnetic life. For me, it's really comes down to presence. I think I am feeling my most magnetic and in my most, I would say, attracting energy, which is also a repelling energy. But I mean, my

highest magnetic power and I'm being fully present and turned on by life, just being here now in this moment, not in the future, not in the past, but just like right here and realizing that in this moment right now is where I'm manifesting from. You're always manifesting from the now. Law of attraction, manifestation, it's like the law of gravity. It's always on. The universe is always responding to your predominant vibration, just how you are showing up moment to moment. So it's about for me just being truly present and alive and yeah. Rochelle, thank you so much for coming on Saturn Returns. Thank you so much for having me.

I've honestly, like I said to you when I first met you in Dubai, I was like jumping up and down when I got this email that I was going on your podcast. Oh, thank you. You're an artist. I adore you. I'm excited for everything that you bring out. Thank you. I'm ready for the next creation, whatever it is, whether it's singing, dancing, you could bring out art, I'll be there. Oh, I love that. No, I like it. You are, you're an artist. You are.

Kaggy the artist. I'll do some tapping around. Yes,, you're an artist. You are. Kaggy the artist. She's tapping around. Yes, you are. Thank you. No worries. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope that you found it useful and that it will help you on the path

that you are currently on, whether you are struggling, going through a transition, looking for a little solace yourself. I always love receiving messages from you guys, hearing about how you discovered the podcast, where you're listening to it, what it's brought you, what particular episodes have inspired you. So thank you so much because this community really means more to me than you could ever imagine. So thank you for your continued support. As always remember, you are not alone.

Goodbye.