Saturn Returns with Caggie - The Courage to Be Seen with Millie Goldsmith: Singlehood, Vulnerability & Your Saturn Return

Episode Date: September 28, 2026

Content creator, entrepreneur and author Milly Goldsmith joins Caggie on Saturn Returns to talk about what it’s been like to grow, recover and change in front of an online audience. From documenting her experience with an eating disorder to navigating singlehood and setting new boundaries, Milly has built a community around showing the parts of life that aren’t always polished or resolved. Topics covered in the episode: 🪐 Sharing vulnerability without having everything figured out 🪐 Recovery, body image and learning self-acceptance 🪐 Setting boundaries and moving beyond people pleasing 🪐 Navigating singlehood and getting comfortable on your own 🪐 Outgrowing old identities without needing to rush what comes next 🪐 Finding peace in taking life one day at a time In the midst of her own Saturn Return, Milly reminds us that not everything needs to be figured out, sometimes growth is simply about meeting yourself where you are. — A special thank you to Pandora for supporting this season. Inspired by the milestones, experiences and personal stories that shape us, the latest Pandora Talisman collection celebrates who you are and the journey you’re on. Discover the Talisman that speaks to you in store or ⁠⁠online⁠⁠. If this episode resonated, don’t forget to follow, share, and leave a review. Your feedback helps us reach more people seeking clarity, growth, and self-understanding. Discover more from Saturn Returns: 🪐⁠⁠⁠ Instagram⁠⁠⁠,⁠⁠⁠ YouTube⁠⁠⁠ and⁠⁠⁠ TikTok⁠⁠⁠ 🪐 Order the Saturn Returns book:⁠⁠⁠ Click here⁠⁠⁠ 🪐 Join our community newsletter:⁠⁠⁠ Sign up here⁠⁠⁠ 🪐 Explore all things Saturn Returns:⁠⁠⁠ Visit our website⁠⁠⁠ 🪐Follow Caggie on Instagram:⁠⁠⁠ @caggiesworld⁠⁠

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kaggy Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. This season is very proudly sponsored by Pandora, who have launched a new chapter of their Pandora Talisman Collection. Inspired by the milestones, experiences and personal stories that shape us, each piece is designed to celebrate who you are and the journey you're on. To mark the occasion, I'll be choosing a talisman at the start of each episode that reflects the guest and theme of our conversation. And in today's episode, I am joined by content creator, entrepreneur and author, Millie Goldsmith,

for an honest conversation about vulnerability, authenticity and the beauty of constantly evolving. Currently navigating her own Saturn, Millie reflects on what it means to grow and change in real time, from sharing her recovery journey so openly to embracing singlehood, setting healthier boundaries and letting go of people pleasing, re-explore the courage it takes to move beyond old identities and allow ourselves to become someone new. Together we discuss the stories we tell ourselves, our fear of other people's judgment and why growth often asks us to sit with discomfort rather than run from it. Millie also shares a reassuring reminder that we don't need to have everything figured out. sometimes we simply need to take life one day at a time and for me this conversation felt deeply connected to the butterfly talisman dare to dream the talisman celebrates courage optimism and believing in your future the butterfly feels especially fitting familiar at this moment of her life a symbol of transformation and the possibility that comes when we allow ourselves to evolve so much of this conversation is about having the courage to let go of who you have been without necessarily knowing exactly who you're becoming, to trust that periods of uncertainty can also be periods of possibility

and that there is something beautiful in allowing ourselves to change. So if you're stepping into a new chapter, celebrating a milestone or navigating a period of change, what would your talisman be? To discover the Pandora talisman that best reflects you, visit Pandora in store or online. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Well, Millie, welcome to Saturn Returns. Hi, thanks for having me. I feel like I already know you. When you walked in, I'm just like, yeah, let's get to it. Because I have actually followed you from very early on in your career.

From like, I don't know if it was from the get-go, but from a few years ago. And I feel like everything has kind of shifted. Wow. So like in my fitness era. In your fitness era. Or through your, because you started out as fitness, right? That was like the origin story. And how old were you when you started showing that journey?

Oh, God. I was about 23. 23. Yeah. And so it's showing up online in that way. And then like let's just kind of start from there. Because I feel like we've got so much to cover. And I also obviously want to get to the fact that you've got to book out.

You're also in your Saturn return, which obviously we need to dive into. But what kind of led you to sharing that experience online? So, yeah, I was about 22, 23 years old. And it was in lockdown. And for context, you're 28 now. 28, yeah. Okay. Wait.

let me do the must. Are you a Libra? Yes. How do you know? You just love your... I'm a Libra rising, but I did know that you were a Libra. Oh my God. You didn't look up my birthday? Yes, I did. I can't present. I'm like, I sometimes can guess, but I did. Because I knew that you were like in around your Saturn return, so I just wanted to know... Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about that, actually, because...

Yeah, we'll get into it. Yeah, we'll go into that. So, yeah, started, well, I started my fitness account during uni in my final year when I was like going through this really tough eating disorder. I was going through it for like eight years having no idea that it was like a disorder. I just thought it was my normal like eating habits just like anyone else that I'd see online doing. So I was, yeah, suffering with that for quite well. And in my final uni did this fitness account, my friend was like, you should, you know, make an account. like show some videos of you working out because I was like a really gym girl then. So I, yeah, I started it.

I was posting these like small fitness workouts, these app workouts, gym workouts, all these things. What I eat in a day is like basically everything that I was consuming from other accounts as well. And I had about, I don't know, a thousand followers by the time I got to lockdown. And then it was when lockdown it really hit. My eating sort of got like the absolute worst. I think when you're in that sort of phase of life, I think with everyone, like, we felt so out of control. And my eating disorder, I don't know at the time,

but now I know that my eating disorder was this, like, just way that I could gain control over my life. And food was, like, the one thing that I could control. So in lockdown, lost complete control, had this, like, huge stress with uni and, like, my dissertation, everything, that I just completely turned to food and, like, restricted so much to the point

where my best friend mess with me and she was like, like, are you okay? Like, this is, there's obviously just something not right here. And over the years, I'd get those messages quite a bit, but I'd always just completely like deflect and kind of put my walls up, be a bit angry.

Because I was just in such an aisle, but it was that one message for my friend who switched it, switched something in my head because she basically never mentions anything serious to me. Like we have such a funny, jokey relationship it for all these years. So when she kind of brought something up really serious, I was like,

it kind of made me really, like, think and reflect on what I was actually doing. So I turned to this online coach that I befriended on Instagram. She gave me this, like, reverse diet to basically help me come out of this, yeah, weight that I was in, gain a bit of weight. And then for a month, I was tracking, my weekly check-ins, my before and after pictures,

post them on this fitness account like I already had. And I went from like a thousand followers to like 100,000 in like a month. Because you'd switched it from being fitness to recovery. Yeah. Because I... So that's when I found you. I didn't want to say, because I didn't know if you'd feel comfortable talking about it. But it was in the recovery period that you suddenly came up.

And I was like, wow, this is so powerful. Yeah, that's crazy. Because at that time, like, I mean, I don't know if it was just my echo chamber or not, but I didn't see anyone posting about recovery. No, no, no. That was just a lot thing. I mean, I still don't that much to be honest. And because I'm 37 now, but when I was 18, I went through a difficult period

in terms of like my body image and stuff. And I think during COVID it was a massive problem for a lot of people because, like you say, everyone was trying to control a situation that felt totally out of control. And food is a way that many people can do that. So there was just this explosion of eating disorders that kind of came on then. And I think still it's an issue for young women, especially with social media and everything. So seeing you share it, I was like, wow, this is so powerful and so refreshing and so bold. Yeah.

Because it was in real time. It was in real time. Yeah. People were really following me throughout this journey. And like, I always say it was such a weird time for me because. Although it was like, you know, amazing that I was getting all this incredible response and I was helping other people. I was going through a recovery of this like eight year logging eating disorder.

I was having to unlearn all these like really ingrained condition rules. I'd set myself in front of hundreds of thousands of people. And I don't think at the time I was really processing that. But then after, once I started therapy, it was about like three years after that, I mentioned it to my therapist and we were like, yeah, really like working through that and there was a lot of like pressure and it was just a weird time of my life really

because I think having an eating disorder you don't want to feel exposed you don't want to feel like people are watching you you don't want to feel like... It's deeply private. It's really private. It's a really secretive thing. So secretive.

So... Because you kind of, it has to be secretive in order to survive. Yeah, exactly. But that's why I guess probably sharing it is like putting light on that shadow. Yeah. And everything, I just completely put everything out on the table and I couldn't hide anymore. So I think that's what really helped me recover as well. Do you think that that was a sort of turning point in your commitment to recovering?

Because when you, once you say you can't then take it back. Exactly. And like, like I said, like I was in such an interesting position because I was getting so many other people like sharing their experiences with me. Yeah. That also felt like I was less alone. Yeah, it is, definitely. But it made you feel like you're part of the community. Yeah. So that really helped.

And I think if it wasn't for that, I don't know, I don't know if I would have been able to recover the way that I did, to be honest. And I feel like with eating disorders, it's such a challenging one because it, like a lot of things that people struggle with, whether they struggle with alcohol or drugs,

you can just cut it out. And then it's like, that's it. It's done. Whereas food is something you have to address three times a day for the rest of your life. And it's this thing that is always there. And I found, especially around my Saturn return, it was something that I didn't look like anything was wrong. But the relationship I had with myself and my body and food was really unhealthy. And it was this kind of very controlling, but I was, it was like what I couldn't, couldn't eat. I wasn't able to have certain things in the house because I would just eat all of them.

And around 30, I was just like, I cannot live my entire life like this. And I think a lot of people actually do and they kind of seem normal. Yeah. But addressing that inner dialogue was really hard. I can't even imagine addressing that inner dialogue online in the way that you have. And we'll kind of get into that. But I did get to the point where I was like, okay, like I've healed that relationship. But from your perspective, in terms of like your relationship now with your body and yourself,

how has that changed? Obviously, you've shared everything in real time, but with that specific thing, do you feel like you're in a totally different place? Yeah, I think there's so many different factors that come to play with like getting triggered, for example. Like I recognise what triggered me and there was like certain people in my life that triggered me. There was obviously certain comments, and some people I followed online. And as soon as I mitigated those triggers, it became a lot more manageable for me. But how did you do that?

I unfollow people online, like to start with. That was number one thing. Like give me a, for instance, so certain people that looked a certain way. Looked some way or were, because I followed a lot of bikini comp girls. Yes. I don't remember why.

So it was the discipline of being like, this is not making me, this is not helping my situation. Well, yeah, like you have to, you have to put your hands up and say like, okay well what can I control in this situation that feels uncontrollable and that's yeah I'm following people that you know don't serve you and there's up there are people who I who I did follow that I just follow for their looks and like it's recognizing that and then knowing that okay

although I might enjoy their content why do I enjoy their content is it because of what they post do they provide value or is it purely just down to how they look and I have to be really honest with myself and in that it's kind of use it as a weapon against yourself what to not to follow them. If you are following those people and you think it's like inspiring it's like well actually

is this inspiring me or is this actually making me berate myself? 100%. So yeah it's changing the perspective because obviously before it was like this is inspiring. I look up to these people. Like I had this,

I speak about it this in my book but this Australian model who I just saved as my screensaver for ages from Tumblr. I call it from Tumblr. And I saw that as something that was like a motivating thing. I didn't question it.

Yeah. I mean, we've all been. Yeah, I've definitely done that before. It was like such small things that would, that you'd have in your day to day life that wouldn't feel so much so much of a deal. But when you really look into it, that's obviously all adding up in making this bigger picture of,

like forming you as a person. And if the person that I was becoming was this unhealthy, moody, malnourished, insecure, anxious person, like what were the external factors were making me that person? So having this person on my background, for example, would be one of those reasons. So, yeah, it was just being really honest with myself.

And, like, even now I always say, like, I find it hard to say that I can be fully recovered. Like, there are definitely always going to be triggers that are going to be floating around my life, like, whether it's certain comments from family, or even seeing a friend, you know, mention how she wants to go and like, wants to lose some weight before holiday. Like anything, like, of course people are allowed to do whatever they want, but it's just making sure that I put those boundaries in place for myself and make sure that I can know that I can protect myself to avoid me going down that slippery slope again. And it's hard because obviously there's all this like skinny talk and heroin chic coming back.

And I see a lot of people talk about it. But to be honest, my echo chamber online, it's not, I don't see any of that. Which is interesting because that's where, you know, you developed a huge online following from that. And then you pivoted into something. It's very different. I guess the common through line is that you're sharing your truth and your experience in real time, which I think a lot of people relate to because it's the way you articulate your experience as well. that it's very relatable, but it's like, one, I don't think people are necessarily able to

articulate it themselves in that way. And two, it's just the way that you share. It's like, oh my God, I thought that. Even just then, like saying about the screensaber, I was like, I remember doing stuff like that. And it's something that I wouldn't even really think about or definitely not talk about. So how has that been in terms of like your community moving with you? Is it still a lot of the same people from that time? Has it because it's exploded. It's changed so much. And when you've been online for five years, like, you do evolve as a person.

And there was a time where I was, I was, yeah, merely G-fit. I was the gym-struck athlete, the girl who recovered for like a good three years. Like that was my online brand. And there was a time where I felt like really conflicted because I had moved away from that girl now. Like I was really content and happy and I didn't even think about food as much as I did before. Like it wasn't,

I was actually struggling to make posts about recovery because I forgot what I even used to do because I was so far from it. And do you feel like that was your identity? So you're like, that's no longer where I'm at. So how do I? It felt really hard because I was like, am I now going to be just like not doing the service

that I should be providing to all these people that followed me from the start? But then I just had to be honest with myself. Like, I've always been honest. And I'm like, I'm not being honest with people online if I'm not being honest to myself. So I had to just evolve and, yeah, changing my handle from mini G-fit to Minnie Gailsmith was like a huge thing for me.

Like, I was really scared. I thought like my community would just be, they would think I'd go behind their back or stabbing them in the back or something. But it's weird how you build, like, the parasycial relationships that people have, online now. Like obviously community like my followers will have it with me but I have it with them. I feel so connected. So like

it was a really, I felt like I was changing my identity even though like I was still the same person that I was in real life. It's just online I wasn't the same person. So yeah, I had to. I would disagree because I actually feel like when I was thinking about this because I've wanted to interview because of everything you're about now. But then when I was kind of thinking

about it, I was like I followed her from that period. And then I suddenly was thinking, oh, wow, that's such an interesting evolution, but it's felt very seamless as someone that's consistently seen your stuff online and followed it. And it's just like, because it's, it's you just showing up and being willing to show up in whatever you're experiencing in real time, whether it's the recovery or dating stuff and like what you're thinking, what you're experiencing. Like it's very, it's very gripping to watch. And I think that, you know, that's why people follow you. Yeah. I think the people who are still with me have evolved with me.

Was there ever any like, oh, I don't follow you anymore because you don't. Yeah. Yeah. I would get DMs like that, which would make me think like, it's tough. So sad. But what would they say? They just say you've changed, you know? Like, you're not the person you used to be. Yeah. So that's tough. And we've always had that, I think, in friendships, like historically. and that's part of growth and evolution that actually like some people you do outgrow. But when someone has the capacity that's a stranger to send you a message,

it's like coming into your living room being like, I don't like, listen to you. And it makes you in a way want to stay the old you. Yeah. But you have to just. Yeah, you feel guilty. But then also exactly, you have to like it always comes down to just being authentic. What do you say back or nothing? I don't really know.

I can't remember. Do you get affected by anything like online that's... You know what? Like, I used to. Like, there would always be from... I mean, there's always, you know, negative comments every now and then if you really go searching for them. And have you heard about that website called...

No, don't. I don't. Actually, I would say that for all my sins, one of my greatest disciplines is like, I know myself. Yes. And I've always been someone that... From, like, as soon as I had a public profile or anyone wrote anything about me, I would see a hundred nice things and find the one nasty one and stew over that. So the thing that you're all talking about, which I've never looked at it, I never want to.

I'm going to block out the words so no one knows what we're saying. But it's essentially like a forum for just slating. Yeah. Yeah. Just people absolutely destroying influencers. It is. No, I'm like, I don't know. It's like a form of self-taught.

No, I agree. Like, I haven't looked on it, but I've only, so recently I've had to search my name to find, like, different PR things that come up. Yeah. And I, I saw it the other day come up, like, just, like, don't. Do it. Yeah. And I read, like, the first line. I was like, oh my God, no, not even going to go down that hell off. Good, the evening. Yeah. But, um, I can't remember what your question was. What was it? About managing online, like, negativity. And that is, like, the cess pit of online. Yeah, it is. And I...

Apart from the daily mail, maybe. I always say, like, people don't know me. If they're saying that to me, they don't know me. Like, I know myself so much. And I'm so confident in the people that I have around me and, like, how I view myself now that there isn't one comment from an absolute stranger who I don't know that can affect me anymore.

Of course, when I'm, like, getting maybe, like, 10 of the same comments back to back that I see in a row. That might be something like, whoa, that's a hard hit. but it will always just blow over and I'll always come back water off a duck's back for you with it yeah yeah that's incredible

yeah where do you think you kind of built that sense of self and confidence is it from showing up in this way? I think that and also therapy and just being like just realize like I think yeah showing up online and being so authentic to myself and just saying how it is

is made me realize like one I'm not the only person who thinks this So that kind of takes that side of things away. And two, like, no one actually cares, really at the end of the day. The only people that care and the only opinions that care is, like, my opinion that I, like, I'm basically assuming other people think what I think. So everything that I am worried about being, like, every sort of judgment that I'm forming in my head or assumption that I'm forming my head is just me judging myself. because I haven't got that evidence that like the friend from school is thinking out of me or like the past guy that I used to date is thinking about me of what I've just posted.

Like it's just me judging myself. So this is what I wanted to ask you about in terms of like sharing. Well, two things. First of you touched on the therapy, which is obviously something you've been doing for quite a long time. Is that still a consistent? Yeah, we do biweekly now. By week. Same person.

Same person. So you obviously have like a real. connection and understanding. I'm very lucky with how I've gone about therapy because I understand like some people can't find their therapist and the first guy but she is like the first person I found and the only person I'm going to be with I think.

How does that inform your sort of day to day and what you do share? I mean it's it she's in my head every day like she's always she's just so understanding and I think I felt so misunderstood all my life. So when I have that to go back to and I feel understood,

it gives me comfort and confidence in like what I think and what I'm doing. Because I guess in, because you studied psychology, didn't you? So I guess in a way, and I feel like for people that maybe can't afford therapy or don't think that they need it, you are in a way a bit of a therapist to your community because but you're using yourself as a lived experience and an example. Is that something you're doing consciously or is that just kind of? Yeah, I'm definitely wanting to share what my knowledge in the best way I can and obviously understanding and being very like aware that I'm not qualified therapist and making that

very clear. But it's just being able to share yeah, my understanding because I think a lot of the things that I think about as well, I would just think is common sense, just because it's like, I did psychology or it's therapy, like, that's just sort of built into my brain now. And it's not for like a lot of people. So I think it's nice. Yeah, there's value in it. And I always, from the get go, from being a content creator, like how many years ago it is now, I've always said, like the core of my page has to provide value. No matter what it is, like it has to provide value. whether it's for me or for anyone else watching, it just has to have some substance to it.

I hate, if you go through my page, like I've not really posted just like a random dump. And that's, like, I wish I could sometimes because like the amount of pressure that I put on myself to just form like really valuable piece of content. It seems very effortless, but I'm sure a huge amount of thought goes into it. What is the process?

Because it is also so in real time. Like, do you say, sit and think, oh, I'm having this thought or this philosophy or this experience, how am I going to articulate it to the community? It's always based on experience. So like, I think when it comes to like ideas or something to talk about, I'm always full of them because it's just like I'm experiencing things every day. But it's usually like it's articulating it. So I recently discovered I have ADHD. And one of the things about my ADHD is not being able to like retrieve words and getting kind of like brain, like brain freeze.

Like I don't really know. Like I know what to say, but I can't say it. But when I'm writing, it just flows out of me. So that is my expression. Like that is my way of articulating my words. It's not like how I'm writing. It's not speaking. It's literally typing on my laptop in my notes up.

Like that is literally how I do it. So and then you narrate it. And then I narrate it with my little mics. Yeah. And then I put all the clips together, which takes ages. But I'm always just like filming myself randomly. Some of my friends don't even notice. They're like, whoa, how are you doing that?

Like, it's a skill. So I'm just always just filming myself randomly. And I'll have like all these clips. And if it's to do with, let's say, when no influence has turned up to my event. I love that. Yeah. I love it. Because again, I was just like, it's so.

anti-influenced behaviour. Do you know what I mean? Like where everyone's presenting this like perfect life. But I do feel there's such a fatigue with that in terms of as a viewer or an audience that were like, we just want the real stuff. And that was that was real. So with something like that, obviously that was like a full day thing. I had, I went back home and I was just like, I've got so much to say about this.

I wrote all down. And I already had the clips for that. So that was a quick video. But sometimes. Is it quite therapeutic for you? to share. I'm so therapeutic. Oh my gosh. Because when I'm writing, I'm also discovering what I'm thinking. So it really is like journaling and just publicly sharing that. And some people would say it's oversharing, which I do definitely agree. But also, I think like where is the line? Like who decides what's oversharing and what is just sharing? Well, you. Well, yeah, that as well. But I think so, so many.

years of being online and so many, how long of people had Instagram, I don't know, all those years, I think people have been so, like, too afraid to share. They haven't wanted to share. So I actually just think I'm just sharing and being real. I think what do you think. I think that there is definitely, like, oversharing happening. I don't think you're oversharing. I think what you put out is really valuable. But there are some, I think there's like a performative oversharing that happens when it's like people almost crying to the camera for the camera. Yeah. And that I find a bit jarring.

But I just feel like you can sense when it's slightly off. I agree, yeah. But like you say, when you're actually doing it because you have a message and something that makes people think, oh my goodness, like, no one showed up to my birthday party or whatever. It's very human and it's very real. But where do you draw the line? Is there ever anything when you're like, this is actually too much?

to share or where do you draw the line between like what's actually you're navigating in your personal life say romantically and then sharing that in real time because I think that's for me because I'm a bit older and like my partner's very private because I feel like I've always been a bit of an overshare like my whole career and like I definitely get a lot out of it but then I guess it's the balancing of like someone else's experience too and then like because I guess part of your, would you say part of your brand now is like navigating singlehood? And then what happens

when you're in a relationship? I know, yeah, yeah. I guess I'll discover that when I'm in it. But have people, because surely people are like yeah, so you were talking about me yesterday and... No, I'll never ever... Guys have definitely said like, oh, you're going to speak

about this tomorrow or something and I always say like, I will never step over the line when it comes to disrespecting someone else. as privacy. I've only shared stories when it's just been a one-off and I'm never going to see them again. And they obviously, I would make sure that it's still anonymous. Like, they can't really identify as them or they can't be found. Because that's something that I've noticed, I don't know if you've seen this online, but I have, I think this is not okay where people, like, if their

ex is like broken up with them and they're obviously a campaign about it, but they'll share pictures and then like, say the exes. wants to get back with them and they'll share like a picture of the text and then and the name and everything yeah and i'm like that surely legally in some way not i would want to do that okay that's obviously like that's what i mean it's like an oversharing yeah a pain that they obviously haven't quite uh understood themselves yeah yeah yeah i agree yeah i think when it comes to that like you said it's definitely something that they still need to navigate and I think turning to social media is probably like the easiest way of finding comfort because you

obviously get that immediate feedback. And it goes viral. And it goes viral. Exactly. But like even like let's, let's say I talk about my parents, not being able to say, I love you to them. They are so fine with that. And they understand and they actually really appreciate me sharing such like vulnerable thoughts online because they say it's just like really strong like trait of mine, to be honest. And why can't you say I love you, then. It's this weird thing. I just, I think for so long,

like throughout my whole upbringing, we haven't vocalized love. Like, we just don't say it in our family. And you've got, you've one of five? One of four. One of four. Yes, and the youngest of four. And we all just,

it's just like unspoken love. It's implied. It's just family love. Like, you don't need to say it. It's just how it's been. But obviously, as I've got older, the words like, I love you, seems so scary. They seem to carry like so much weight

because they require this level of vulnerability and also like openness to not having that be reciprocated. And I can't deal with that. Did they say to you? My mum will say it. Yeah, she's like, oh, love you, you know. And I'm like, love you, mum. But we'll never be like, I love you.

We'll never say it like that. We'll never like, we'll just always do it in a fleeting moment or just, yeah, just say it quickly and that's it. It's interesting that you, because I remember when I was, I think I was about 29 and I was having a lot of therapy and I realized that my family never expressed. Like we know we love each other, but it was never physically, it was never very tactile. Yeah, yeah. No one ever said, I love you. And I remember kind of having a problem with that because I was like, that's not who I am. I feel like I'm very expressive and very tactile.

And I remember like writing my dad this very long letter. I can't remember what exactly it said. But it was just like from what our normal day to day was was so, so much. Yeah. But it was easier to put it in writing. Yeah. And he was like totally shocked when he read it and kind of didn't even react. And it like just then wasn't brought up.

and I felt really embarrassed with that vulnerability and sharing and feeling like it was not reciprocated. But then, I mean, years later, like more recently, I remember going to his and he, like, picked up the card and he kept it like, and I was making me quite sad. And it was like, oh, and he said, I always read this. And it was like showed that it's there. Yeah.

It's just people aren't based on their upbringing and everything like that. But I did from that moment make a very conscious effort to all. always say, I love you on the phone. And at first, like, my parents were like, because it's really weird when you've born 29 years and you haven't to suddenly do it. But then now it's just normal. I know that I will definitely get to the point where we can all just say it freely, for sure. But I think it's the same, like, they're also a bit uncomfortable. And we love each other, of course we do. Yeah. They show it in different ways. But it's like this weird, it's such a funny concept when you really think about it. Like, it's,

It's just words. It's just word, but they're symbolic. Yeah. I know. When it comes to dating then, so where are you currently at? Are you dating anyone? No. Is there anything in your notes that you haven't shared in the book that you can share with us

that you haven't shared online yet? I've got so much in my notes that you don't even understand. Like there's like definitely debriefs of like really, you know, in-depth debriefs of certain dates. Or there's... Give us a lot. Something that. Something that's an exclusive. What could I say?

There was this one date that I went on that... I'm not saying it. I was convinced he was gay. So basically, right. I'm going to say it. I was too much he was gay. And it's really funny because after, I think I was like two days after I went on this date,

we had a great time, loved it, but convinced he was gay. So two days after that, I had a girl message me around a girl, know her and she was like hey have you did you go on a date with this guy the other day because he mentioned he went on a date with you I was like oh my god yeah like how come and she was like oh my god yeah I think he's gay and I was like oh my god yeah I think he's gay so me and how we're having this like this date that we'd just been on and it was like anyway I was sending voice

notes and all these voice notes are in this in this notes that I've got because I just found it really funny but that's just an innocent I don't know I don't know maybe he'll listen to this, I don't know. But that was just quite funny. But no, I'm very single. I think, like, how are you finding dating at the moment? It's really hard because I now, I think I've shot myself in the foot in multiple different ways. One, because I know myself so well now that I know my boundaries, like, I know what I'm worth. And, like, I think it's very hard to find someone who can match that. And so. Secondly, being this person who now speaks about dating and has written a book

about all these things I've said in my notes out and a lot of it being about being single my whole life and all this stuff, that obviously comes to a lot of baggage when someone's going on a date with me. And I think that obviously scares a lot of guys. Yeah, I can't be so valid. It would scare me as well. So I think I've kind of, yeah, shot myself on the foot there. But at least it's all there. So if they show up like, they show up like, they know what they're dealing with. It's not like they're going to discover it. Be like, oh, God.

Exactly. I do have this other page, just like my personal page. And it's got like, it's still got a good amount of followers on there. So whenever a guy would, you know, chat to me on that page or like move from Hinge to Instagram and I'll give them that page, they'll be quite scared. They'll be quite scared. Well, because you're actually diverting them to a slightly smaller audience. But they think that.

They don't have, surely they could quite easily figure it out. I mean, yeah, maybe, but some guys don't. Like, some guys are completely oblivious. But I find it really funny because, like, they'll find 40,000 followers, like, really daunting. Really? Whereas they have no idea about my own page. So I'm like, right. A few hundred thousand more.

Yeah. Oh, my God. But it's really hard because I always obviously want to go into these dates without them knowing that so they can just get to know me and not build this, you know, perceived, I don't idea of me before. Has it ever caused someone to be like, actually, this is not. This is too much. Not like, I'm sure it has, but they haven't outwardly said that.

Yeah. But I've only gone as far as like a two-month thing. I haven't got any further than that. And what is your observation at the moment about the dating world? Because I haven't been single for a very long time, but from what I hear, it's kind of a crazy jungle. Yeah. it's like you're in a casino and you're just like what is that because of the swiping yeah it's it's constant dopamine hits that's it and knowing that like there's always just another try and another try and like you won't just settle for the one that you get even though it's really good um I think it's really like it's just a vicious loop to be honest which is why like I just want to meet someone in person I don't want these dating apps I know and I

There's such success stories from dating out. Like, got friends who have boyfriends from them, and it's all amazing. But I think I'm just in this unusual situation where you want to meet someone organically. I want to meet someone organically, yeah. Has that happened recently? No. Because the thing is, as well, like, you have to put yourself in these environments. And that really, that's its own way of kind of gambling.

Because then everyone, like a lot of my friends that are single will go to things, always with the hope that they're going to meet someone at that party or at that wedding. on that event. Yeah. And then when they don't, they kind of feel a bit deflated. Yeah. But equally, there must be like a fatigue happening

from the dating app because it's like you also go in with these expectations, especially if the chat's quite good and everything. Yeah. And you get there and you're like, exactly.

And it's so easy to just, but it's also so easy to just air someone and just. To ghost someone. Yeah. Yeah. But do you not think that with you, there's like more accountability

because they may be, you know, the next content. They might be the next content piece the following day. I don't think guys really think about it like that, to be honest. I don't think some of them even care. Because what, I think the last one that I was very, I found very riveting was the New York boy. Yeah.

What was that situation? So that was kind of the, I think for me, the final straw, which really made me just become so hopeless in dating my love life. because yeah basically I was in New York and I was there with my friend I had actually just kind of started this like quote unquote decentering men thing

and went to New York I was like I'm just going to be single with my friend and you were loving New York having the best time ever and it was on like the second or third day I think it was the third day went shopping went to this Joan the Juice in Soho

and I was like getting this eye contact with this guy he was like really quite attractive and I was like saying to myself like it's fine you can you know you can go over and say hi or like like hold the eye contact because I couldn't hold it for like longer than one second because I was going to get rejected but again on this decentering men thing I was like it doesn't matter if you get rejected like say what like if you like him hold your eye contact like be that empowered women you know so I was really trying to channel that so we were both getting this vibe and then walked out I was like okay well I've just missed my chance That was it.

And then I get this tap on my shoulder. And the guy is like, I think he's like, he was like Spanish. We had some sort of accent. And sorry, anonymous. I'm going to not make sure that he's identifiable here. Let's not do that. I think we're safe with that. Yeah.

Taps me on my shoulder and he basically is like, what are you doing here? Like you're so beautiful. Like we should go out on a date. Like fully just so forward. And I was like, obviously going ahead with it. Like, yeah, yeah. Tip my number. And that's just throughout the day.

and it was like very like surface level whatever on and off and then we were like trying to work out like where to me the next day and I didn't really oh yes I woke up the next morning of the day that we went to have a date didn't hear from him I was like that's fine we went out for a run and we run past him wait so you organised have a date that night no you organize a date that night for the following day yeah So woke up of the day of the day And I hadn't heard from him yet But I was like, you were just in the morning Ran past him It was like we were doing like a 10K run And ran past him and I had like no makeup on

I was Yes, fully like oh my God no no no Did not just see him what the fuck And I have this like really big Inscurity about my skin and my bare face And I know you shared a lot of that Yeah I hate like I'm really trying to learn to love it So when he saw me with no makeup on

I was like this is it Like this is done. This is, I've lost to task. He did see. 100%. But we didn't like, we didn't. You know, it was like, it was such a fleeting moment. You run past.

Yeah. You don't realize you just run past each other until you've. And then you're just going to keep going. Yeah. So anyway, long story short, didn't hear from him for the whole day. I still in my head think we've got the date. And turns out, we didn't. Like he didn't, he didn't turn out to the date.

He just didn't show up. No. So you'd organize. The time and a place. And a place. Well, we were organizing the place as we were speaking. But we had had a good, rough idea. And I was just, I said to my friend, like, let's just go out for dinner around the area.

And, like, if he, like, responds and comes back with, like, a solid plan of, like, a location over, then great. But it was like, yeah, all day didn't hear from him. And then, like, 6 p.m. heard from him. He was still, like, very, like, not being very decisive. And then 7, 8 p.m. 8 p.m. heard from him again.

And then from 8pm to midnight, I didn't hear from him. But we went to the bar. From 8pm he had messaged the bar. So we went to the bar and then that was it. It was nothing. But did he say I'm coming to the bar? Yeah, yeah. He said I'm coming.

And then he said his phone died. So this was like... Although like it was a stranger. Like I met him the day before. Like whatever. I didn't know him. It felt like so much more than that because like I had... This had happened to me multiple times before.

So it felt like... People don't... Yeah, people hadn't shown up to the date like multiple times before. Really? Yeah. And people will make a plan for a day and not come. Yeah. Even now talking about it, I'm like, ah, cringe.

That is awful. That's awful. I don't understand. Like, I don't know. Because then it makes me think, like, what am I doing wrong? But like, I'll have conversations with my friends. And they wouldn't understand it either. So it, like, it comes down to, like, who am I choosing?

Like, who are these people? Who am I talking to? And also, I guess, like, having my personal boundaries, because if I look back on this NYC boy, like, I could have cut it instantly when I knew, like, he wasn't responding. He was slowing down his replies. Like, I should have put that boundary in place to myself, my own worth. But I didn't.

Like, I was still being so hopeful, like, it could lead somewhere, like, you know, this was like a, the hopeless romantic in me was thinking, like, this could be something because he'd just tap me on the shoulder in the middle of the street. Yeah. It was so romantic. It's a great, neat, you know. So I was really holding on to that. But I think, obviously in retrospect,

like knowing how that panned out, I could have just put that boundary in place and be like, merely no. Like, he's fucking you over. Of course not. But then there was a part two, wasn't there? Or was that it? Yeah, he popped up once I was back in England, blah, blah,

but that was it. Just the same sort of. Yeah, the same story replies, story lights. But I think what's acting like nothing had happened? Yeah. It was just weird. What's difficult about this is like I can hear the internal dialogue that's like placing the blame on you for having hopes. But why wouldn't you?

Someone's come up to you. There's obviously some kind of connection in chemistry. They've planned a day. And then they're just like, that's not on you. And that shouldn't be on whoever is in that situation to feel, oh, I put too much into that. But we do do that to ourselves because it's all I was thinking about this morning actually that when. it's almost like you have to keep your centre so much with dating. And when someone's investing their time and energy in you,

especially at the beginning stages when it's super fragile, I feel like if you lose your centre a little bit, you just collapse, your toast. Like that is just like, and then it's almost you put more and more into them, hoping that they'll plop, plop you back up. But it just gets worse and worse. And it's like the energy then is that they're like, oh, I've got them where I want them.

Exactly. And I can just give breadcrumbs. Yeah. A lot of bread. A lot of breadcrums. I'm going free. I'm just doing that. Yeah, I actually speak about in the book about like my anxious avoid an attachment style.

And how it's just. And what is your? It's so I will, if I don't have like the reassurance or. the knowledge that they like me, then I will try to find that until... They do. They do. Until I get some sort of like confirmation that they do.

But once I do... You don't like them. And I'm like, okay, I've got that confirmation now. I'm not even that fast anymore. Like, I've done what I needed to do. I've won the prize. And then I'm like, and then they like me. And then I'm like, wait, no, go away.

There's something wrong with this one. Something I'm picking up on. And I just think, like, Like, I need space, but just enough space to realize that I want them. Yes. But then by that point, they're gone, so. And that is a recipe for disaster. Like, totally.

And I'm sure this is also all starts off with like electric chemistry at the beginning. And you're like, oh, this is my kind of cryptite. And I'm sure like they're also the same. That anxious avoidant or anxious. So like in the moment it feels, yeah, like fireworks and feels exciting. It feels like you both like love this like. slight chase. Yeah.

And it's working, but it only works for like a very short period of time. How short a period of time? A week. And then as soon as someone's responded, like, it's like, oh. It's really, really tough. It's really tough. And like, I'm learning that and recognizing that is so hard. Well, it's so wired into your system.

Yeah. Like your whole nervous system, your whole, like, basis of attraction. is kind of based off this. Yeah. And that seeking of being chosen and validation. And then once you get it, it's like... Yeah. So sometimes I'm like, when I start to not like the guy,

I'm like, okay, is this because I don't like him or is this my actus avoidant? And it's really hard to... Because he's actually showing up and being consistent. Well, or there'll be, I'll be, I'll, like, mask it in other ways. Like, maybe there's certain icks that I find. And I'm just telling myself that at X, but really it's because of my anxious avoidant. And it's really hard to distinguish. What's what?

Like, what are the things that give you the ick? Like, like, I'd say someone's just too keen. You know? Just liking me. Just liking me. But, like, that's obviously the actions of what. Like, that is, yeah, that's my attachment style.

But, like, superficial icks could be, like, really, really skinny jeans, you know? And, like, just not being a bit dirty or a bit, like, messy. But dirty and messy and, like, don't mean to look after themselves. That's a bit of a neck. Fair enough. Yeah. Oh, they're really, like, really, really full of themselves.

That is quite icky. I don't like a narcissist. Do you feel like breaking type and going for something that's like a slight gives you a different energy? I feel like I'm in dating therapy. It's really fun. It's helping me a lot. Yeah, I do.

But again, like, that feels uncomfortable to me. So I think all of this just feels very uncomfortable, which is why I've been single for all these years. It feels uncomfortable. And like, correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember there was a point where you were actually nervous to go on dates and said like you've obviously come on. Yeah.

But then I found another side of it, which is I can now go on these dates, but who are these people that I'm going on dates with? Like, are they people like, do I have to really push past that comfort and go on dates with people that I'm not familiar with? I'm not used to like a different type. for example, or do I just keep you need to go on those, loads and nose of dates to find the one? And I think I know the answer to that one, which is obviously the first option. You're like, no, I've said it out loud.

And that just feels so uncomfortable to me. But I think it's also in a way really reassuring because I have come so far in life. And like, I am the person I am today because I've fought through all this discomfort. Like it started from the eating disorder and now it's going through like still being vulnerable online and sharing like you know, my acting journey, everything. Like everything down to the tea comes to this discomfort.

So I know that there is hope for me. Like I know I can get through this. It's just going to take some time. Because you just mentioned about being self-conscious about not wearing makeup and him seeing you, which I think is a deeply relatable thing for many women because a lot of us just feel like we have to put on this mask. Where are you at?

with that at the moment. Yeah. So I like when you share your kind of, I guess it's like exposure therapy where you're like, I'm scared to go on the tube or anything because I'm not wearing makeup. The thing is when I watch you,

I don't sit like, she's so beautiful without makeup. Like you just, for me, look just as beautiful if not more beautiful. And so I just want, I'm like, God, that's so interesting. But again, we all have these things in our own head. Yeah, I think where I'm at now is,

you've caught me a bad time because I was doing so well and then my acne just got really bad again and I was even on a shoot yesterday I had a little cry in the taxi on the way home because it just felt so angry on my face I had to go into M&S and get some wipes

to quickly take it off and then I found myself just looking at my camera and I was just like staring at myself from the camera for so long and that's when I really get in my head because I just can't stop looking at it. I just put my phone down and like just forget about it. And there was a thought in my head yesterday that I was like, I don't think I can go on Kaggy's podcast tomorrow because like the

lights and the pit of the camera. But like obviously without all the work that I've done, that would have taken over and I would have definitely cancelled. But like I'm here and I'm doing it and like I feel fine. So I know that like it's just a spur of the moment and like I'm getting my head so much that I form this whole narrative in my head when really like if I just do it. And it's so convincing. Oh my gosh. But if I just do it,

it feels way less daunting than I make it out to be. Because you have to do the opposite of what it's telling you. Well, thank you for sharing it and thank you for coming. I actually remember I messaged you when you put up a thing about how when you drink alcohol, you feel like it makes full face puffy. Oh my God. I used to have this thing where like if I had drank, I felt like my face was so perfect

the next day that I wouldn't want to go anywhere and I would like cancel parties or cancel things because I just felt really self-conscious of what I looked like even though I probably didn't look any different at all but it's so interesting how we stop ourselves from living our lives for these things that like no one would ever notice or care. It's so true because like you probably have some insecurities,

I don't know, maybe you're so, maybe you're free from inscrows, I don't know. But let's say you do. Let's say you do. And let's say you have like loads of spots in your face. You don't. You have gorgeous skin. But let's say you do. I, you could be thinking I'm just staring at your face. But all I'm thinking in my head is Kaggy is staring at my face.

So I'm not even thinking about staring at your face. It's still. Well, it's never that saying when it's like you're not who, I'm going to completely vote your trip. It's like you're not who you think you are. You're not what other people think of you. It's what you think other people think of you. Yeah. 100%.

Yeah. It's what your, it's the judgment. you put on yourself is what you think everyone else is judging you. And unfortunately there's a humongous industry that's like fueled by that insecurity and fuels that insecurity, particularly for women. I know men have their own insecurities as well, but I feel like, especially now when I'm just, I sometimes see these people online doing these like showing all of these skincare things that they've done and all these treatments. And I'm like, this is so crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that this has become normal.

Yeah, and like accessible. And accessible. It seems so unattainable yet like so accessible at the same time. So it feels like you can reach that. And we perpetuate it by doing it. You know, because then when you see women doing it, you're like, okay, I guess that's the benchmark now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I better go and like do one of these things. But this is why I think following the right people online is so important. Yeah. Because there are amazing people that are just like, this is who I am. Exactly. And like they don't always put filter. on their face or always show, you know, they don't always turn up when they're looking their best. Like they're just right out of bed and put the camera on. And I love that because it's just like

that's setting the standards for me. And also you touched on this at the beginning. It's like you have to be conscious of the echo chamber you're creating for yourself because whatever you think you're going to feed. So if you start thinking or everyone is looking at me like then you're going to present yourself in a certain way and then follow certain people that perpetuate that. Whereas if you consciously do the opposite, it kind of, it goes away. Yeah, it's like a two-way thing, isn't it? You're a product of your insecurities. On that.

The final thing I wanted to ask you about. The final thing I wanted to ask you about, you mentioned a bit about rejection and that it's something you struggle with. And yet you are able to consistently show up in this way that for a lot of people would feel absolutely terrifying into exposing. How is that different? Yeah. It's like I, it feels different because I'm not seeing the other side of it.

I'm just like putting my, it's like a one side of wall. I just, but you're getting the feedback. But I'm not seeing it from a person. Right. If that makes sense. It doesn't, it just, again, it looks like words. And like, of course, they're lovely, amazing words and comments. But even if it was a bad,

comment, I would just, it's easy for me to just ignore it. I'm like, okay, I'll put my phone away. Like, that doesn't exist. But when it's like in reality, in real life, you're being confronted with actual rejection straight up in front of you and you can't go anywhere unless you run away, that is like way more. Do you mean romantic or is it across friendship? Yeah, I would say it's across friendship as well. Like, I am a recovering people pleaser as well. I'm really trying to form personal boundaries in that sense as well. So I've molded myself to other people, other friendship groups, and I think with that, I've lost myself a lot because I don't know who I am when I'm molding myself to everyone else, you know? So I think it was honestly, once I hit 27, 28,

my Saturn returns, I realize, like, this is not how I want to live. Like, I don't fully know myself. So I need to just like stop, put things in place like cut friends off and know that like that's not me being a bad person. That is just like acknowledging and respecting that friendship for how long it lived and that was that. Like it's just like friendships do have an expiry day I think. Not all friendships will be last forever and like it's just really accepting that and knowing that that will happen like throughout your whole life. And I think. especially during your Saturn return. Yeah.

So I want to talk about that. Let's get into it. I'm going to find out your exact Saturn stay after and I'll send it to you, but I just need your birth details. But do you feel like there have been some challenging themes that you've had to navigate over the last years? I feel like you're kind of coming out and you have really embodied the lot of the lessons and kind of face the discomfort.

Yeah, I think I'm really facing the discomfort. and like really like channeling this higher self. I love it. So I think the main struggles that I've tried, yeah, I've overcome and I'm still overcoming is this skin, the guys, like I centered them so much in my life. So now I'm like seeing them as just another person. They're not like this higher god I used to see them as relationships with my family, even with work.

putting boundaries in place with work as well and like not i'm such a like a high performer like i really just want to be the best to everything which is great but also it will absolutely kill me at times so it's that's another thing that i'm i'm working on what to be a bit more gentle with yourself yeah and just like allowing myself to fail and being okay with that and like not having that be a reflection of me, it's just a reflection of progress and doesn't mean I'm a failure. Like I'm, I can just do the next thing and move on and it's fine. And I think when you have like a job where your job is literally, like the success of your job is relying on people's opinions of you, that is quite hard because it's like being a people please are wanting to like be the best

at everything and like obviously like numbers comes with that as well. And it all gets quite It gets quite intertwined. Yeah, and a lot. So I'm really navigating that at the moment. But I'm definitely feeling great. Like I'm feeling good. I think the book is helping a lot. Yeah. I'm scared for the book as well to come out. What do you want to achieve with the book? What do your hopes with it? I think I've already achieved what I wanted to achieve, which is just like putting all my thoughts to paper and finding answers that I couldn't find for so long. So regardless of how the book does,

like, I'm really happy with it. Did you have any vulnerability hang over with it or not? I think, I mean, yeah, always. I think that I speak about, there's a chapter about sex in there, which is obviously so vulnerable. What do you share about sex, in it? Just like my thoughts and my experience,

my past experience with it, and I guess you have to read the book. I know. But yeah, there's, there are still, feelings of discomfort when, like, when I know that people are going to read this. But like, that is again another way for me to just combat this fear of judgment and wherever else is in underlying that. So, yeah, I just want people to feel like heard and seen and understood and just not

an alien. Like, I just want them to know that if they're reading words that they can relate to. to then that means that like that's okay like it's okay like everything's okay you know i've got to say i wish i had had you to look up to when i was going through my saturn return because i feel like everything you've spoken about i remember being there and being there and being i was the only one like i knew obviously i wasn't the only one but it felt very alone i felt very alone and i guess that's why i created satin baton because i was like am i the only one that's kind of going through these things. So it's just so helpful for people and like deeply relatable.

But I also think it's interesting to see that there is such a process to it. Yeah. And I think where you're at and everything, it's like a beautiful time of you kind of blossoming. It's great. Oh, thank you. I can't believe you've been a follower for so long. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, it was like one, I remember it was like one piece that kind of, did it go a bit viral but I just you were kind of showing like where you'd come from with the fitness stuff and then where you were in the recovery and I was just like I just remember thinking oh I wish I had this when I was when I was younger and it was um yeah I just followed you from there when I was younger I think I was like you nine or ten me and my best friend used to obsess over you and a milly

like genuinely like I was milly and she was so like if I knew that back then Oh my God, I would have died. That's so funny. Isn't it funny, though, as well, like how we kind of, I think social media is amazing in the way that you can follow someone's experience and feel like there's a shared experience, but then also how you just don't know what people are necessarily really navigating or going through. Yeah.

But anyway, Minnie, thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to share for our community that might be kind of going through something right now? I think just being like taking it day by day being so kind to yourself and remembering that like nothing is permanent you can always change your mind you can change direction you can change location you can change friendship like you can change anything and change is good it's scary but it's good because this feels like as I've been having these conversations with people for this season that the theme is kind of like women in transition like what they're moving through and I'm definitely going through my own like becoming a mother and everything like that.

So and you've also shared so much of what you've, the changes that you've had. Do you feel like anyone ever arrives somewhere? I think people who arrive are like people who are present. I think it's amazing to like obviously always look ahead and look at goals and forecast for life. But that always comes with this like, unsettled feeling.

You're not done yet. Yeah. But I think if you just, yeah, take it day by day, I think that's what I tried to do every day. I'm like just taking it day by day. And if I do that, I'm like really content with where I am right now because it's just I'm looking at the day. I'm not looking at the year or the month, whatever.

I'm just looking at the day. And that really helps me. So I do think you can reach that. Yeah. Just be present. Yeah. Perfect. Well, thank you.

Thanks for having me. It's been so lovely to chat. My pleasure. I have followed Millie for such a long time. I was so, when she walked into my living room, I was just like, hey, hey, girl. I felt like she was one of my best friends because I have followed her since the days when she was putting up her recovery. I remember that's how I found her online. And I was just so inspired by her vulnerability, also her capacity to explain very complex things in this.

this sort of inner dialogue that she shares with everyone that feels deeply vulnerable and deeply relatable. And her willingness to share things in real time, I think, is what has made her so unique and so relatable and so successful because it's what so many of us are thinking and feeling. And I think for anyone going through their Saturn, she's such an inspiration of someone that is just sharing that authenticity. So definitely go check out her book. and I hope you enjoyed this conversation. It was super fun to talk to her about dating world and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, if you found it enjoyable, please send it to a friend who you think might like it too.

That is how Saturn Returns has spread across the world is through you guys sharing it with each other. So thank you so much for your continued support. And as always, remember, you are not alone. Goodbye.