Saturn Returns with Caggie - Unlocking Your Energetic Blueprint: Human Design & Self-Acceptance with Emma Dunwoody

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

What if the key to understanding your purpose isn’t outside of you, but coded into your energy? In this powerful episode of Saturn Returns, Caggie Dunlop is joined by master coach and Human Design expert Emma Dunwoody, host of the widely acclaimed Human Design Podcast. Known for making this once esoteric system practical, Emma shares how Human Design can guide you toward radical self-acceptance and authentic living, especially in life’s most uncertain, transitional moments. Together, Caggie and Emma explore: 🪐 What Human Design actually is - and how it merges astrology, the chakra system, the I Ching, and more 🪐 The four main energy types and what they reveal about your life path 🪐 How understanding your authority helps you make aligned decisions 🪐 Why we often ignore our intuition - and how to reconnect with it 🪐 Emma’s journey of transformation from corporate burnout to spiritual purpose 🪐 How embracing your energetic blueprint can lead to more freedom, clarity, and self-trust Whether you’re new to Human Design or have been diving into your chart for years, this conversation will offer grounded, inspiring insights into living in tune with your truth, not your conditioning. ✨ Remember: The Saturn Return is a time of awakening. Understanding your energetic blueprint might be the compass you've been looking for. — Thank you to our sponsor, Naturalmat, for making this episode possible! Better sleep starts naturally ☁️ Naturalmat’s handcrafted, organic mattresses and bedding are good for you, your family, and the planet. Experience the comfort of sustainable sleep at naturalmat.co.uk, or visit one of their showrooms! If this episode resonated, don’t forget to follow, share, and leave a review. Your feedback helps us reach more people seeking clarity, growth, and self-understanding. Discover more from Saturn Returns: 🪐 Instagram, YouTube and TikTok 🪐 Order the Saturn Returns book: Click here 🪐 Join our community newsletter: Sign up here 🪐 Explore all things Saturn Returns: Visit our website 🪐Follow Caggie on Instagram: @caggiesworld Resources & Mentions: 🪐 emmadunwoody.com 🪐 Explore Your Human Design Chart

Before we dive into today's episode, I want to take a moment to talk about something that's really, really important to me. Sleep. We all know how crucial a good night's rest is, but have you ever thought about how your sleep environment affects both your health and the planet? That is where Naturalmat comes in. From the very beginning, they prioritise sustainability by using certified organic materials like locally sourced organic wool. Their mattresses and bedding aren't just better for you, they're better for the environment too. And everything is handmade with care and craftsmanship in their Devon workshop. So if you want to improve your sleep while making a positive impact on the planet, I highly recommend visiting naturalmap.co.uk. Heading to one of their showrooms, trust me, switching to a natural, sustainable sleep setup makes all the difference. Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that

aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Today I am joined by master coach, human design expert and host of the much loved human design podcast, Emma Dunwoody. She's known for her ability to demystify this powerful system and make it accessible, actionable and deeply empowering. Emma's mission is to help people awaken their full potential, decondition from societal expectations and live in alignment with who they truly are, not just who they've been told to be. In today's episode we dive into the foundations of human design and how it intersects with

astrology and self-awareness and why understanding your unique energetic blueprint can be the key to radical self-acceptance and freedom. Whether you're completely new to human design or have been exploring it for a while, this conversation is filled with insights that will inspire you to lean into your authenticity and trust your own inner guidance. So I hope you enjoy this episode. I hope you enjoy this episode. I hope you enjoy this episode. I hope you enjoy this episode. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Emma. Hi. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. It's a beautiful sunny day here. Well, the sun's starting to go down, but yeah, life is good. For the audience that might not be familiar with your work, would you be able to explain

a little bit about who you are and the work that you do? A little bit about me? Well, I'm not a very good person, but I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person.

I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. I'm a very good person. is good. For the audience that might not be familiar with your work, would you be able to explain a little bit about who you are and the work that you do? A little bit about me. Well, I am a behavioural coach, I'm a human design expert, I'm a podcaster, I'm an author, I'm a mother of two, I am a world traveler, so many things. But look, really my mission in life is really helping people to know themselves better

than they've ever known themselves before so that they can ultimately become the authority in their life, so that they can live their soul's purpose, so they can step into their superpowers. And so much of the work I do is helping people align to their superpowers. And so much of the work I do is helping people align to their human design. And for those that might not be familiar with human design,

we've done a couple of episodes around it, but would you be able to share sort of how you got into it and actually what it is? Yeah, sure. So what it actually is, is a synthesis of four ancient wisdoms. So Western astrology, the Hindu chakra system, the Kabbalah tree of life and the Chinese I Ching.

Now, these four wisdoms have been like mathematically mapped together to give you what we call your human design chart or your body graph. And what it actually tells you is this is like your blueprint. It's like your treasure map to the authenticity, your treasure, the beauty that lies within you.

And ultimately it's your energetic expression. So how I got into it was I am a coach. I had, you know, I was working in a corporate environment, working with the C-suite, running leadership workshops, doing all of this sort of thing. And I was using a lot of other behavior and personality profiling tools. You know, things a lot of other behavior and personality profiling tools, you know, things like Myers-Briggs or disc profiling, you know, things like Enneagram that

really big right now. And I was in a point in my career where I'd had such a huge, huge transformation, I'd healed depression and panic disorder. I had changed from advertising career into becoming a coach and then starting my own business. I had healed a relationship. I'd had two kids. I'd moved from, we had a little farm in the country into Sydney. And so much of my life had changed and transformed for the better, but I felt like there was this part missing. And for me, the way I articulated it was like clarity of my purpose. I knew that I was heading in the right direction, but I felt I still didn't feel like I thought

I should feel if I was on purpose, if you like. So I kind of declared to the universe that she needed to beat me over the head and be super obvious. And if she could just show me exactly what it is, the missing piece is, then I promised to follow up on that. Well, human design is what she bought me within a 48 hour time span. And it was back when no one even knew what human design was. It was very, very rare. And in Australia, they actually at the time Googled leading human design expert or coach

or something like that in Australia. And the probably the best human design teacher in Australia happened to live 15 minutes away from me. Yeah. And she was moving two weeks from then. So it was like this little window that we had to get to know each other. And I had a coffee with her the day after I emailed her. And I sat there with this complete stranger. And she told me who I was better than anyone else. Like she knew me better than any other human had ever known me before and it was mind blowing.

So with that information, I decided that I had to integrate it into my business because I promised, I made a promise to the universe. I was like, okay, I've got to do this human design experiment. I've got to try it out. I played around with it in my own life first. And then it was the, you know, following my strategy and authority. It was my next step into really

fulfilling that purpose and that promise. So I mentioned it to one of my CEOs who was the absolute role model for, you know, old white guys, if you like, not the sort of person that would really be into esoteric stuff, but gratefully, we had a really good relationship and rapport and he was like, yeah, sure. I'll give you my time of birth, give you all the details. Let's see what this weird thing is. And from that moment, all of my clients results

just amplified. They became better leaders. They became better parents. They became better at the work that they were doing, the way they made decisions. And I suppose that was at the point that I was like, okay, I was afraid at first, I was always very spiritual, but I was very much in a spiritual closet.

And that was the time that I was like, okay, this has gotta come out, I've got to share it with the world. And I followed my strategy and authority and well, the rest is history, as they say. So for, you know, using the term strategy and authority, would you be able to break down the different types of human design? And then I would love to know what you are as well, actually, and how that kind of allowed

you to feel more seen? Yeah, I love that. So I can definitely go into strategy and authority. I'm a three five manifesting generator, emotional authority, cross of planning. How did it set me free? Well, one of the first things for me that was really prevalent was that I had always

sort of strived to succeed. And I'd felt that it had been something that I wasn't necessarily good at. Even though when I looked back at the evidence, I'd had a very successful career in sport, I'd had a successful career in advertising, and as I was building my business, I still had this identity, this belief that I wasn't successful, that I wasn't good at it because I was inconsistent. I couldn't successful, that I wasn't good at it because I was inconsistent.

I couldn't do the same things every day. And the key to consistency is repetition, is doing the same thing every day. This is how we build trust with our clients, right? Consistency. So when I discovered human design, first thing I learned was, well, as a manifesting generator, I'm a non-linear being, meaning that I am designed to be multi-passionate, to kind of jump all over the place. When I learn, I get what I need and then I move on.

So all of a sudden, there was all this evidence that actually I was meant to be this way. So instead of trying to change who I am, how about I just run the experiment and be inconsistent and see what happens. And ultimately what happened, number one, I realized that I've had all this success in my younger years that my brain had actually deleted because my belief was that I was inconsistent and without consistency, I can't be successful, I would never even look to the evidence because our brain will just delete all the evidence if it's not in alignment with our identity. I wanted to share something with you that's made a huge difference in my sleep quality. Natural map. If you're anything like me, you care about what goes into your sleep environment. After all, it's where we spend a third of our lives. That's why I

absolutely love natural mattes focus on organic natural materials free of any harmful chemicals. During my pregnancy I have found sleep to be, well, rather challenging, but natural matte has made all the difference. Their products are crafted with breathable, temperature-regulating organic wool, ensuring a sleep experience that's not only more comfortable, but also healthier for you. And the best part, Naturalmat is fully committed

to sustainability, using certified eco-friendly materials for every mattress, bed, and piece of bedding. Plus everything is handmade with care and attention to detail in their Devon workshop. If you want a sleep experience that's better for you and better for the planet, head over to naturalmat.co.uk or visit one of their showrooms for a healthier, more sustainable night's sleep. So all of a sudden, everything opened up. It was like, wow, I've been consistent. I've been consistent in my own way for years, and I've succeeded in my own way for years. So that was really one of the first things that really helped me understand

that I wasn't going to be walking this really straight path. I was going to be multi-passionate. I was going to jump all over the place. And that was just perfect. But I mean, that was just the beginning. So much has completely transformed for me. Just being me, you know, being able to be me every day and know that that is exactly who I need to be.

That's a lot of B's in one sentence. I'm very familiar with the different types and I'd love us to go into that but the and then the authorities but the numbers bit is where I get a bit confused. So you are a four one splenic projector. So the four ones are, it's what we call a juxtaposition cross. It is this energy of a person that it's like, I like to explain it as you're kind of a force of nature. You, from the moment you're born, you are on your path and it's like no one can deviate you from that path. You can deviate from that path if you want born, you are on your path. And it's like, no one can deviate you from that path. You can deviate from that path if you want to,

but no one can deviate you from your path. And it's just this journey of, in the old school terms, they say it's like, you're not creating karma, you're not cleaning up karma. You're just kind of enjoying the ride. But one of the things with the four ones that I've experienced firsthand is that, as I said, you're just a little bit of a force of nature. It's kind of like the metaphor is imagine that you were dating someone that you know, you've really liked,

but you decided that you wanted to move to Australia. And that person hat would have all the best reasons not to go. It doesn't matter. You're going to do what you want to do and that person would have all the best reasons not to go. It doesn't matter. You're going to do what you want to do and go where you want to go. And people can go with you, but they can't deviate you from that. Does that resonate? Yes. So much.

It's interesting because me and my partner have actually just been having a huge argument because he wants us to move to Dubai and I'm like, no. It's interesting because me and my partner have actually just been having a huge argument because he wants us to move to Dubai and I'm like, no, I don't want to go. So I'm like, for me it is, yeah, I'm very specific about places where I want to be, where I feel energetically. I know what's aligned and what isn't. So I find it hard to be malleable in that sense. Yeah and you have a Define Will Center so anyone who thinks that they can move someone with a

Define Will Center is kidding themselves. Good luck. Yeah exactly I have a Define Will Center as well so does my youngest son and yeah he's been my greatest teacher because I've just forged my own way in my own direction. But having a child that also forges their own way as I do is like, okay, like I see how this is everybody else. Yeah, this is, this is challenging. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, ultimately it's this energy that you're following your heart's desire. it's this energy that you're following your heart's desire. And, you know, one of the other things that having a defined will center will play out

is like you also can't force yourself to do things that aren't correct for you. So oftentimes a defined will center might, for example, when I was in my advertising career, I had a successful advertising career, I kept getting promoted, I kept getting headhunted, I moved around, did all the things, but I just got my advertising career, I had a successful advertising career. I kept getting promoted. I kept getting head hunted. I moved around, did all the things.

But I just got to the point that I couldn't physically make myself sit at my desk and do my work because I just did not have energy for it. So it can work both ways. Wow, that's really fascinating. And for those that might not be familiar, like projectors in general, what are the sort of the obvious characteristics or attributes that go with being a projector?

Yeah, okay. So I'm going to tell just a little bit of a story about the types so you see how they sort of fit together and then I'll go into the projector. So with the manifestors, they're here to inspire people into action. Okay, so these are the people that are the trailblazers. They start things, they bring the first, they birth things. Then the generators and the manifesting generators, they do have slightly different jobs, but they're similar. Once they get inspired into action, they build the new paradigm.

The manifesting generators are also here to demonstrate human potential. Then what happens, once we have the inspiration, then we're building the new paradigm, the project has come along and they're like, okay, we need to tweak things. We need to do less of this, more of that, change this, stop doing that. And they improve things. And then our reflectors actually then reflect back the truth. So where we're at, what the truth of anything from a relationship to a family, to a business, they're just reflecting back the truth.

So as projectors, one of the things that's so important for you guys to understand is that you are here to be seen and recognized. And so often in the Western world and as women, we are taught to be quiet and especially of my generation. I mean, I'm a lot older than you, but you know, as a projector, I love to use the metaphor of you potentially would have been the little girl in class that when you were in the class that you loved, your hand just kept flying up.

Like, yep, I've got the answer. I've got the answer. I've got the answer. Back to me. Ask me. I know the information. I've got wisdom on that. But you were never allowed to do it.

You were like, okay, you got to give someone else a go. And really, no, you don't. Because she's the one that really wants to be seen and acknowledged for the wisdom that lies within. So what can often happen with projectors is they're not taught to actually receive resourceful attention, meaning that they learn that they have to go out and get attention. They have to force people to see them.

They have to force people to recognize their skills and wisdom. So what happens is they get really bitter because they need an invitation. They need to be invited in. Their wisdom needs to be invited in. So this is where I think a lot of projectors, where human design really sets them free. They first get super annoyed because they're like, I don't want to wait for a fricking invitation. But once they actually understand that that is more about valuing themselves and the wisdom and what they bring to something, you know, instead of trying to chase down every opportunity that runs past them, it's like, okay, well,

you know what? I could fix that. I could solve that. I could help that. But I'm just going to wait until someone comes to me. Now that doesn't mean that you have to sit on your hands. I absolutely do not believe that you sit on your hands and your design itself is going to give you a couple of different ways that you're going to sort of move that energy.

But what is really important is to value you and to obsess about the thing that you want to obsess about because all that you want to obsess about because all projectors are obsessed with something. They want to improve something. They want to create a system for something. So obsess about that. Tell your friends, share it on social media, but share it without agenda.

Share it without the need to get attention for it. And that is where the invitations will start to flow in. That's so useful because I definitely have had periods in my life where I've been waiting for an invitation but I've not been active or I've not been doing enough to actually receive any invitation. I've just been sort of like at home, passive, not going out into the world. So I find that's really, yeah, but equally, I'm not the kind of person that's gonna go and bang doors down, you know, that doesn't feel natural for me.

So I think that's a really useful takeaway that it's like, do the thing you're passionate about, share it, and then wait to receive the invite. Why do projectors need an invitation? Well, it's because they have this ability. The thing with projectors is they see really deeply into the other. And to be honest, that's intrusive. You know, if you think about it energetically, someone just forces themselves upon you and is like, Oh, well, I can see you deeper than anyone else has ever seen you before. That's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on a second. This is my energy. This is my thing.

And you're just like invading my energetic space. So the invitation is all about recognition. It's about being seen. It's about someone saying, wow, you are really good at that. I really want your wisdom. I know a great example is a story from my own life where I've had some pretty unresourcful projectors in my life and I hadn't had really great firsthand experiences. I've had a lot of clients that were projectors that were great, but not my own firsthand

experience until we ran a retreat a number of years ago. And the two projectors that came along, and one in particular, who's now one of my dearest friends, I remember saying to her on day two, I'm like, wow, this is what an aligned projector feels like. And honestly, all I want to do is sit at her feet and listen to the wisdom that comes out of her mouth. Whenever I am in a challenging time in my life, I'm like, I wonder what Corinne would think. We travel a lot and she actually now comes and does the opening and closing ceremonies because she's a shaman at our retreats. And all I want to do is talk to her the whole time. And at our retreats. And all I want to do is talk to her the whole time. And we actually had this

experience at the last retreat we went ran in Bali, where she's so recognized and seen that we had our morning meditation. And I always do these journey meditations. I mean, I say I do them, but I don't I have no idea what I'm going to do. I shut my eyes. I start talking and away we go. And we were doing this journey meditation and after it, we kind of going around the room sharing. And I think for once I thought kind of said, oh, Corinne, can you go first? And she said, I didn't like usually I'm having all of these amazing things, but I didn't really have much. I just felt like I was dozing in and out, you know, and in and out of consciousness, I didn't really get much. And then I'm getting goosebumps. And then we spoke to every single

other person in the room. And she had visited every single other person in their meditation. So like when they have an invitation, that is how much access they get to a person's energy. Like she had literally gone to each person and given them a gift or a lesson or something in every single person's experience. Wow, okay. So that's like when you're very aligned in your human design.

Yeah, yeah. She doesn't chase down anyone. She just sits on a cushion and people come to her. I love that so much. That's my dream. And in terms of the how many people in the world are different human, like make up the different types of human design. Because am I right in saying that reflectors are the least? No, so reflectors are the least, that's 1% of the global population. Then there's the projectors of 14% of the global population. Then we have just under 10% are manifestors. And then the rest are generators and manifesting generators. And in terms of like bringing it back to sort of career and purpose,

how do they complement each other? If you were, if someone was listening to this and thinking in terms of like strategy for business, how can you kind of align those types and why do they complement each other? Oh, I love this question so much. So I think the biggest thing to understand is when you use human design to create a team, first you wanna know what the role is specifically,

because you wanna know what the traits are that you're looking for, and also the actual function of the business. So not function. Well, yes, function, but also what is the structure? So I'll give you an example. For my business, when I hired my first person, you know, I'm a manifesting generator.

I'm a manifesting generator that just wants to get out and do the work. I'm a line three. so details are not my jam. So I was very conscious, like I need someone who can match my energy, which is really important because I move really fast and I jump all over the place. I need someone who's really good at details. So often that would be an indicator that a line one

would be a really good fit. and that would be an indicator that a line one would be a really good fit. Um, and because of the nature of my goals, so fast growth, I, you know, for me, a, another manifesting generator would be a really good fit. And that's who I hired and that person that was hired as just a virtual assistant at first to swap my website over from one hosting place to another, actually now is the COO of my business. So she just grew as the business grew, she grew, you know, she, you know, took over strategy and all of those things. So the way that we can really use our human design is

twofold. Number one, what is the job description? What are the unique talents? What are the things that you need, like I've described? And then being able to think, okay, well, what is the job description? What are the unique talents? What are the things that you need, like I've described? And then being able to think, okay, well, what sort of how does that suit from a human design perspective? For example, let's say you were hiring a strategist, and you had an established business, and it was all about, you about, really moving into that growth phase, automating things, getting all the systems perfected, then a projector potentially would be a really good fit because that's gonna be their superpower.

Let's say you've got a startup business. Well, a manifest is gonna be really powerful in a startup business because they're gonna have the energy that it needs to get off the kind of the platform, if you like, out of the gate. So really understanding the energy of the business and the goals and your ideals, like that's one way, one thing that's really important. Then the other thing is just as the business owner or the team leader or whoever it is that's doing the hiring

or putting the people together is trusting your own design, your own strategy and authority. You know, one of the big things that came through for me is when I hired Taylor, this person, I had interviewed someone who I'd worked with for a long time. I really liked. She was someone who was like exactly who I thought I needed. However, there was this other person, I had a number of other people as well, but there was this other person that a manifesto client had told me you should definitely interview.

I then looked at her chart and my chart and my personality son, which is like our everything filters out through that. So it's like our most prominent energy was her, and I'm going to use a little bit of gene keys now her core talent. So when you put these two charts together, you're like, wow, that really complements me And the the other woman that I just love and adore she had a lot of individual circuitry So that there's nothing wrong with that. I've got a lot of individual circuitry, but my business It means that when you have the when you look at the lines of your chart

So sometimes the centers, which are the shapes are connected and sometimes they're not. But each gate, which are the numbers and each line, which are the channels, they have a certain theme of their own. So individual circuitry, there's a lot of individual circuitry that kind of runs up the center, up the center of the design and it's kind of like the center channel and it's actually really prominent energy and manifesting generators a lot of the time. So when we have individual circuitry or a lot of it, then we're going to be very self-focused. Now there is nothing wrong with that because everyone is designed perfectly.

It's going to be someone that's on their own journey doing their own thing. But my personality, son, so my biggest energy is tribal circuitry. So having an individual person with a lot of individual circuitry doesn't necessarily match with the tribal circuitry. So, you know, you can sort of get into it and but ultimately, and how we hired the last person that we hired who is also freaking extraordinary, our whole team is. So we would get all of their designs, we would go through the designs, one of us and pick just the designs that we thought were good separately, then we would go through the actual cover letters and the resumes,

pick out who we thought were the best out of that. Then we would swap over and then let our authorities really say, okay, well, who do we have energy for? Ultimately, we went through this whole process. We interviewed, I think, in the end, like 15 people. We had so many applicants and we got it down to 15 people, which doesn't seem like we got it down very far. But you know what I mean? There was a lot of good applicants.

As we went through the interview process, it was all about who do we have energy for? You know, and I'm an emotional authority, so I had to sleep on it. I was very reliant on Taylor because she's a sacral authority. So in the moment we could hang up and she'd be like, thumbs up, thumbs down and not because of the person, just because of the energy. So, and going to the authority part. So you're emotional, so does that,

and that means that you have to give it a bit of time to know versus sacral, which is more instant knowing. Exactly. So emotional authority, which is nearly, it's about half the global population are emotional versus what we call non-emotional, so everybody else. And emotional authority is all about waiting. It's all about giving it time because we kind of, we sit in this mechanical wave. And what that means is that there's always the wave of emotion.

And most of us are trying to control that emotion. We're either trying to repress it, we're indulging it, we're trying to make it go away, we're using it as a weapon, we're trying to make it go away, we're using it as a weapon, we're trying to connect in unresourceful ways. But really what we need to learn to do is surf the emotion to understand that it's kind of almost a veil most of the time over really the truth

of what is correct for us. So it's about this learning how to ride the wave and waiting for emotional clarity. Because as emotional beings, there's a lot of emotion. But when our correct decisions come in, maybe we've slept on it, maybe a week has passed, and then all of a sudden the emotion disappears and we have clarity.

So you really have to slow down and take your time. So yeah, in this particular circumstance, it really helped that I had a sacral authority to sort of be like, well, these are the ones that I've got energy for. And sacral is more instant. So sacral, the sacral, if you have that defined and that's your authority, then what that means- Which is what I have, right? No, you have splenic authority. I have splenic authority. Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay, so sacral authority is instant. Yes, and they're generators. So generators or manifesting generators have, and manifesting

generators have this defined sacral. They can either be sacral beings or emotional beings. They can either be sacral beings or emotional beings. So the sacral is the in the moment feedback of knowing, yes, I have energy for something. No, I don't. So if you have sacral authority, it's the simplest of all authorities because it literally will move you towards something or away from something. You will have energy or passion or excitement or you're lit up for something or you won't. The hardest part with it is it's so instantaneous that the mind jumps in and overrides it. So most people have to deal with the overriding of the mind.

Because it's like they'll get an immediate answer but then the mind's like, oh no, but actually let's apply logic and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's how we've all been conditioned to make decisions, right? To analyze the situation and, you know, go through the pros and cons or think about it. But really, especially if you have,

if you're a pure sacral being, like you are so lucky, you just have to learn to trust it because it's super simple. And because it's the most powerful motor in the body, it's a big like, yes, I have energy for this. No, I don't. Like it's obvious. Sometimes in the beginning, when you come to human design, it's not obvious because you haven't been listening to it.

So it's kind of got quieter and quieter. So you have to build that relationship back. But when you are aligned and you're listening to it, it's a really obvious yes or no, Which is very different to the spleen because I think that's what you were talking to this. The spleen is instinct and intuition and you know, survival and moving, you know, well-being. And it can be a whisper, you know, it can grow into a loud whisper, but it's an instant knowing and it can be very like, you don't know why you know, or if it's right or wrong. And sometimes it can feel like, really, that seems weird, but it's really about trusting

the instincts, the intuition, the knowing. And often the body can move with the knowing before the brain or the mind is ever even present. So you'll have like a physical response to something. Well, one of my favorite stories to tell is I don't actually have a defined spleen, but when we are in aura, so our aura is approximately six feet, with other beings, then any one of our centers, which is what we call undefined, so it's white, you're looking at the chart, and it's white, it means that we take in and we amplify that energy and reflect it back. The other?

Yeah, from the other. So for someone like that's one of the challenges, the big challenges projectors have because they take in the sacral and that's the big, the most powerful energy in the body. So you're like riding the sacral wave and like, oh my God, I have all the energy in the world. And then you move out of aura and you're like exhausted because your system can't process all that information. It can't, sorry, that energy. As in from the other person? Yeah. Yeah. With that, I mean, with that explained, because I always have this thing which

people that I work with have to quite quickly figure out is that at the beginning, I'm like, yeah, yeah, go, go, go, like super energized and excited. And then suddenly it's gone. Yeah. I just need to, I'm just like totally drained and need to just be on my own. And I don't know what it's about, but I've always had it. Yeah. But that's, and that's, that's a perfect example of your energy. I think one of the things for you to understand is like you do, you are what I would call an energetic projector. Meaning you have one of the things for you to understand is like, you do, you are what I would call an energetic projector, meaning you have one of the four motors, which is the wheel center,

the heart center that we spoke about before. And what that means is that, you know, when that motor's got energy, you're there and like the willpower, it wants to move, it wants to, you know, create in the material plane, like it's a powerful energy. It's almost a force to be reckoned with really. But once it's done, it's like a savings account. If you just spend all the money, then it's empty. Like you have to go and put more money in. So once you're done, you're done. You have to go and recharge.

And okay. So in terms of the, the aura thing with other people, so you're saying about the splenic authority. So I wanted to give you an example of how it can sort of show up. So I was with a splenic projector lying on the beach and amplifying this person's energy and all of a sudden I just get up off my towel. I don of a sudden I just get up off my towel. I don't know why I just get up off my towel. And the next thing you know, this rogue wave comes up,

but because I got up off my towel, I had enough time to pick up my towel. This other person did not listen to their intuition and got wet. But it's that, like, I don't know why I got up, but then the wave arrived, I was like, wow, there it is. You know, like that's the intuition. You don't know why you got up. But then the way the wave arrived, I was like, wow, there it is, you know, like, that's the into intuition. You don't know why you do it. You just do it. And you know, there's nuances. So it also really depends how because it's also that sort of like the house of the

Claire's as well. The clip, whether you're Yeah, exactly. In all the gates, there's a, there's a Claire that is associated. And you actually have the it's Claire olfactory that you have. So you can sniff a rat, like you can sniff out a rat. Um, you know, if something doesn't, and I mean that in, in, well, probably both ways, but you actually have this, this six, six cents with your smell. Um, they can really like, you know, when something's, you know, off, if you know what I mean, does that resonate with you? And that's Claire what?

Old factory, old factory. I've never even heard of that one. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I guess, I guess that's true in that I am quite witchy when I feel like something's off. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. So, yeah.

And splenic, the thing about splenic, it's probably of all the authorities, the one that we have kind of been the most trained and conditioned out of, you know, like it's because, you know, it's, it's our Claire's, it's our intuition. It's our, you know, potentially, and it's not our imagination, but it's, you know, that sort of energy. So as kids, we're taught to be analytical. We're taught to think about it, to be logical. Whereas the spleen is the opposite of all of that. It's, it's intuition, it's instinct. It's the energy that knows when to run, it's the energy that knows what's good to eat and what's not good to eat. I mean, people that have a defined

spleen, they will also, if they listen to their spleener kids, then they will be really, really healthy people because it's all about the health and wellbeing, but it's also like making sure that the human race will go on, will survive. And all of the intuition, all of the knowing, all of the magic that sits in there as well, it's not logical. And that's the stuff that we've really been taught not to trust. So it can often sort of start as a whisper. And then the more that you practice it, you know, just listening to your intuitive hits, maybe it tells you to go

left instead of right, maybe it tells you to call someone, the more you do the little things, the more you'll notice the big things that it's guiding you to do as well. I love that. And for the, because someone asked me this the other day and I feel like it's very much relates to what we're talking about. But, you know, as you were saying, a lot of people,

we have been conditioned out of trusting our intuition, but a lot of people, we have been conditioned out of trusting our intuition, but a lot of people ask, how do I know whether it's trauma or intuition? As it relates to what we're discussing, what are your thoughts on that? So this is a really good question. And honestly, I think it has a large, in my experience, it has a lot to do with the level of consciousness. You know, when we are still really deep in our trauma, when we're still healing and evolving from it, we are not as conscious. Simply put, we spend more time in fear than we do in love.

So I think one of the really big things is, I know for me personally, because I spent seven years doing depression and panic disorder. One of the things I learned through that process was just being clear that is this guidance coming from love? Because if it's not coming from love, then it's not high consciousness. It's not my higher self.

It's fear, which means it's coming from my ego or depending on what you believe, something else. So, yeah, I think that's the really big, for me, it's the thing I've always lived by, is, is this coming from fear or love? And I actually have said, and, you know, one of the things for me, obviously this is not too woo for your audience, but one of the things that I've said is that I have an intention or a declaration that all guidance must come from love and clearly come from love and positivity. So, you know, if I'm headed down a path that

is not the right path for me, well, bring the carrot over here, bring me over here, you know, not scare me away from there, bring me over here. So that has been one of the things that I think is super super important when we're trusting our intuition is getting clear on if it's communicating from love then it's probably the higher self. If it's communicating from fear then it's probably coming from the trauma, conditioning, fear, it could be other people's thought forms, collective thought forms, could be all sorts of other things. And how do people differentiate the two? How do you? Well, honestly, for me, I have it. And I thought everyone had this. And I only just really in the last few years realized that everyone doesn't have this. But I have very clear, like, and it even comes from top right sound, comes from love and

positivity and it's quieter and it speaks slower. And then I have kind of this, almost like this force the energy that sits behind me and talks really fast. And that comes from fear, which I know is ego. But this is like 20 plus years of really getting to know myself. Tuning in. Yeah. I actually think that mine is probably quite similar, but I've never really looked at it like that before, which I find so useful. Well it's so important because I think one of the things for so many years, and I've meditated for more than 20 years,

like I've been in this very spiritual. And it was only recently that a coach said to me, why do you meditate? And I was like, I don't know, it's good for my brain, it's good for my mind, and he said, for such a spiritually connected person, you didn't say anything about connecting to source.

And it was the first time that I realized I'm like, I'm never disconnected from source. Like I'm not a person that goes into meditation to talk to God universe source, whatever you want to call it. I'm like, she's there all the time. Like all I got to do is just slow down and there she is. And I honestly think, I mean, I don't think I'm special. I think we all have this. I think we can train ourselves to be able to listen to the voice of love

and we can train ourselves to just let go the voice of fear. Because the more we listen to love, the louder that gets, the more we listen to fear, the less we listen to fear. Yeah, exactly. It's that, what's that quote, you know, like, and as she goes where attention flows or something. Yeah, something like that. But there's this, there's this beautiful, like, indigenous story about two wolves. And it's like the good wolf or the bad wolf. Can't even get to the end of it. So I'm going to leave it. The point is, is the one that you feed is the one that will be louder. So the one you give attention to is the one that will be louder.

So if you give your attention to love, then that's what you will get more of. Would you say as an observation of people that you've worked with and just the collective in general, that we are more programmed to be in a state of fear? That's an easy yes. We are programmed from the moment we're born to be in fear. It's been, in my opinion, and all the research that I've done, it's very deliberately done.

Because when we're in fear, we're in lower consciousness. When we're in lowest consciousness, we can't be sovereign beings. We can't think for ourselves. We can't take a different path, we can't say no, that's wrong, I don't agree. We can't stand up for ourselves. So we are really, really conditionable when we are in low consciousness. And that really is ideal. I mean, it's why the education system is set up the way it is, you know, it's set up so that people think, well, there's nothing else I can do because to actually forge my own path, that's hard. That's

almost impossible. Yet if you speak to, you know, people like you and I, like, was it really that hard? No, it was that much harder sitting in an office, you know, feeling like I was selling my soul to the advertising devil, you know, that was much harder than everything I've had to do to create my own path. So yeah, I think that we are conditioned from the moment we're born and so much of my mission is about liberation from that. because so many people that listen to this podcast come to me with this dilemma of purpose and what they're supposed to be doing with their life. I can't speak for you, obviously, but for me, the way that my brain is, I was never really set up for working for someone else. I would have always really struggled with that. I struggled with that at school. So actually forging my own path was kind of like the only, I saw it as like the only option. But for someone that might actually be really good

at their job and doing really well, but feels that sort of inner niggling that they wanna be doing something else, but they're not quite sure, where would you suggest they begin with the context of what we're talking about? Well, great question. And look, at the end of the day, human design is, you know, so complicated. There are so many levels. I mean, that's why I wrote a book called You can just start with the simple parts like if you understand your type, your strategy, you understand your profile, you understand the centers, then you know enough to learn to

follow your path. As you follow that path, your strategy and authority is going to take you to the places that are aligned for you. If you're listening, if you say yes, then if you're smart, one of my favorite intentions is show me my purpose. Show me what I want to do. Show me what lights me up. Show me what I want to obsess about, and put that declaration out to the universe, and then your strategy and authority will take you there. And ultimately, with human design, if you want to go super deep, then you will find such detail, like such detail to specifically what you're here to do in the world. You know, what your core talent is, what, and this is kind of referring to the gene

keys because I use the gene keys a lot too. Yeah. Could you explain what the gene keys are? Sure. The gene keys were created by an incredible human called Richard Rudd. And they actually represent the 64, what we call gates in human design or hexagrams that we call in the eye chain. And it is his interpretation of the 64 energies and the gene keys.

The reason why I love them is because he actually looks at the shadow, the gift, and then the city, which is enlightened state of each one of them. So as a behavioral coach, when I first came to human design, it was very almost two dimensional. It's like if you have this gate, so I have the gate of struggle, for example, I have the gate of crisis as well. I don't want to hear that I have struggle and crisis. Like, I'm a behavioral coach, I'm all about performance, I'm all about performance, I'm all about, you know, potential, that where can I go from here? The gene keys, let's say

they actually give us a pathway. So they might say, let's say with the 36 that, yes, the shadow is crisis, but the gift is humanity. So what do I get when I stop seeing the crises as crises? I actually go through these emotional experiences that make me so relatable, understandable, empathetic, all of these things to other people, because I really understand because I've experienced all of these things. So I can really empathize with other people. And like the the cidicic state I believe is compassion. So it's this, this ultimate enlightened state of being able to hold compassion for all things, meaning that, you know, you, you have love and compassion for

all people, no judgment kind of thing. So the gene keys are this beautiful journey and they're very different because human design, I used to say a lot in the beginning, like the original knowledge, the language is very negative, but we've had so many people kind of reinvent it now and put their own words to it. I mean, I'm just one of many. So it's not as negative, the language,

but it can be a little bit without movement. Whereas with the Gene Keys, it's very poetic language. It's oftentimes when you first come to the Gene Keys, you might read it and be like, what? Because it's a lot of words. And sometimes it's kind of like a little bit out there. But if you sit with it, you know, my experience with and Richard Rudd talks about contemplation. So it's not it's the it's the the place between meditation and, you know, analyzing something or learning or knowing something. It's this this contemplation, this middle pathway. It's this this contemplation, this middle pathway. And when you do that, like I know, in my experience, it's been profound. There's been words in there that I'm like, Oh my god, that's exactly how I feel

on the inside. And I've never been able to articulate that. So yeah, the GKs are really, really powerful. And they're really powerful for business as well. I use them a lot in my work really powerful and they're really powerful for business as well. I use them a lot in my work, um, to help people understand their, to know their, their core talent, to their understand their brand and their culture, um, and even their money frequency, their money frequency. Yeah. You are a line five. So that means that money for you is all about like your frequency is about power. So you are

your energy is here to attract a lot of money. The shadow side is that it will be like unresourceful power money, you know, as opposed to the kind of higher expression is that with that power that money gives you, you can do great things in the world. You can be a great leader. You can have great impact. Jess So on resourceful power money, what does that mean? Jess I think it was like, just really like, in the, you know, there could be, maybe people tried to control you with money, maybe you tried to be controlling with money, maybe money, you know, you could have even had a belief that people with a lot of money and power are bad or greedy or whatever it might be. So it's just kind of, it's this theme that sits there. And

it's important to go deeper and really understand the truth for yourself. But yeah, it's the people with the line five are here to attract a lot of money. Wow. Because there's so much more that I could dive into you with you, but I'm aware that I have taken up quite a lot of your time this evening and this morning. But for those that are interested to dive deeper, where is the best place for them to find you and the and the best resources? Yes. So the best place to find me is my website, which is Emma

Dunwoody.com. And you can go over there and get your chart. If you already have a chart, I highly recommend that you just get the free chart on my website. Because if you do, we're going to send you to the right episodes for your design. Amazing. Yeah so that'll send you over to the podcast which is the Human Design Podcast and really help you to sort of start to unpack your design and then yeah there's plenty of ways that you can work with me over there. Oh beautiful thank you so much and I've really enjoyed this I'm going to be heading to a website myself. So. Thank you so much, Emma. I've really enjoyed this. I'm going to be heading to your website myself. So good. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like we only

just got started. That time did fly. I know, but we'll speak again soon, I hope. Sounds good. I'd love to. I hope you enjoyed this episode between myself and Emma and if you want to find her online she is on Instagram at the Human Design Coach. If you guys found this interesting, like I said, if it's something that you've just started exploring there is so much to learn. It's a subject that I'm deeply fascinated by and I found it very helpful in my own journey, in my own relationship to business, to work, to navigating my career and just as a tool for a deeper sense of self. So I hope you enjoy and thank you so much for listening and as always remember you are

not alone. Goodbye.