Saturn Returns with Caggie - Waking Up to Your Authentic Self with Paul Scanlon

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

In this thought-provoking episode, Caggie is joined by Paul Scanlon, a renowned public speaker, author, and personal development coach, known for his transformative leadership, communication, and self-awareness work. Paul shares his journey of awakening and explains how it has shaped his mission to help others reconnect with their authentic selves. Paul, who spent over 30 years as the senior pastor of Life Church in Bradford, has shifted his focus to helping people "wake up" to their potential. Drawing from his life experiences, he discusses the importance of creating safe spaces for people to embrace their true selves and challenge societal norms. From navigating the education system to breaking free from the "rat race," Paul shares powerful insights on leadership, personal transformation, and being true to yourself. Key Highlights: Waking Up to Authenticity: Paul explains the concept of 'waking up' and how childhood experiences often stifle authenticity. He emphasises the importance of feeling seen and safe to help individuals consciously awaken to their true selves. Embracing Your Weirdness: Paul talks about how our uniqueness, or “weirdness,” is a superpower that the ego often suppresses in favour of societal expectations. Breaking Free from Social Norms: Paul offers practical advice for those who felt out of place in their youth but didn’t understand why. He discusses how small steps can lead to breaking free from societal moulds and reconnecting with authenticity. The Tyranny of the Education System: Paul critiques the one-size-fits-all model of Western education, highlighting teacher burnout and the system’s archaic structure. He believes bold, new ideas are needed to educate and inspire future generations. Listening to Your Intuition: Paul shares how we can start paying attention to our intuition or “niggles” and why journaling is a powerful tool to capture these insights, helping us recognize patterns in our thoughts and feelings. Leadership and Influence: In Paul’s view, leadership is about influence, not authority. He challenges the traditional command-and-obey structure and encourages everyone to see themselves as potential leaders, shaping the world through influence rather than hierarchy. — This episode was made possible by our friends at East Healing. Visit easthealing.com today to explore their full range of acupressure products and start your journey to enhanced well-being. You can enjoy an exclusive discount with the code ‘SATURN15’ at checkout for a limited time. Our community Substack “You Are Not Alone" has now launched! This space is dedicated to deep, honest conversations about the struggles we all face—because no one should feel alone on their journey. Whether you’re navigating personal challenges or seeking inspiration in your creative pursuits, join the community on Substack here. Follow or subscribe to “Saturn Returns” for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn’s return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey. You can also find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok. Order the Saturn Returns Book here.

I have long been a fan of Chinese medicine healing tools, so I am delighted to share our partners for this season of Saturn Returns, the amazing East Healing. Formerly known as AcuSeeds, East Healing is the UK's leading ear seed brand and a luxurious destination for holistic health enthusiasts, blending the ancient art of acupressure with modern elegance. You may have seen them receive investment from Steven Bartlett on Dragonstone back in January. My mum gifted me an AcuSeeds ear seed kit for my birthday this year and I've been a fan ever since. These small beads are placed on the ear to stimulate pressure points, helping aid stress,

anxiety, headaches, sleep, and improve overall wellness. I love their luxury take on this ancient healing tool. Their collection includes 24 karat gold Swarovski crystal, pearl, and nickel-free options. Visit EastHealing.com today to explore the full range of acupressure products and start your journey to enhance wellbeing. For a limited time, you can enjoy an exclusive discount with the code SATIN15 at checkout.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. I want to say to some of your listeners, you are waking up, but it will not look like that to anyone else. And so you need to be listening to conversations like this so that you don't feel like you're going out of your mind. That there's something wrong with you. We want you to feel seen, we want you to feel it's okay, we want you to feel safe, and we want you to find guiding voices that help you to stay on that track you're on because there aren't enough of them for us to believe you'll find one easily.

So we're glad you're here, Kenneth. Today I sit down with Paul Scanlon, whose work centralises around personal development and those seeking authenticity, which makes him a very appropriate guest for this podcast. I came across Paul's work a very long time ago, I feel like he was one of the originals in this space and has been doing it for a very very long time, so I thoroughly enjoyed getting to have this conversation with him. Some of the prevailing themes that came through was the subject around education and how in many ways the education system fails us. Now I want to caveat that with saying you know for

anyone that might be listening that works as a teacher or anything, I'm not meaning to target those people. Obviously there's some amazing aspects of the education system but in many ways what we kind of touched on in this conversation was how this linear way of thinking irons out our uniqueness and doesn't encourage us to be our authentic selves and then we kind of go through life and have to go on this journey of reclaiming it which is what this show is all about. We also talk about the importance of how to tap in to hearing the call of your intuition and to pay attention to the niggles before the boulders set in, before the rocks start

being thrown in your way which I think is such an important skill that most of us aren't very good at. We also talk about the subject of leadership which I found particularly interesting so I hope you enjoy this conversation and that it guides you onto your own path and journey to authenticity. A long time ago a teacher of mine told me that up until the ages of seven years old, we are supposed to help children play, discover their natural talents, understand their natural inclinations and really help them cherish those and nurture those. Then between the ages of seven up until 14 or 15 years old, we introduced them towards a more disciplined routine in

service of education, help them push them in a direction that is going to help them expand into the body of knowledge that they are best at or are more interested in. And then from the ages of 15 year olds onwards, we are supposed to become their friend and their mentor and their guide. Which is very interesting because that's exactly when we start our Saturn Square, our first Saturn Square at the ages of 7 years old. Then at 14 and 15 years old, we start to encounter our first Saturn opposition in our lives. And then from there on, we encounter our next Saturn square

at the age of 21 years old. In 2020, Saturn entered the sign of Aquarius in conjunction with Jupiter, the sign of Aquarius. And if we remember, that was a time where the way that we learn significantly changed because of the isolation and lockdown that we were in. People started to learn from home, people started to learn different skills. There was more of a play and openness and expansion when it came to how we learned. At the time of recording Pluto has stationed in Capricorn for the last time in our lives and it will head into Aquarius for the next 16 years. That means that there will

be almost an introduction in this age of Aquarius where there will be this desire to be more open, the ability to think outside of the box, to march to the beat of our own drum, to approach things that we have so far, the structures, the value system, the way that father government did things before, the way that the education system was built, things about that will fundamentally change. There will be a death and rebirth of it. But with that rebirth, we will encounter a renaissance, a renaissance of how we learn, of how we do things, of how we approach our natural talents, our natural skills, and also how we learn, of how we do things, of how we approach our natural talents, our natural skills and also in how we approach ideas and fundamentally break out of the box of perhaps convention and are

able to build newer approaches, newer traditions with Pluto and Aquarius. I am Paul Scanlon and I've been doing what I do now, whatever it's called. It's difficult to, when people, when you meet strangers on a plane or something and they say, what do you do? I sometimes just tell them a lie. I'll say, oh, I'm a plumber or an engineer, because then they don't say anything next. So what I do now is the most complicated thing I've ever had to be responsible for explaining. So I'm in this space, like some of us are, of trying to wake people up, I suppose.

I see myself as an awakening of people. And I see that as the first step to coming back home, to your authentic self. But see, now, if you say that to a stranger, they're like, what the hell are you asking? Because what do you see? And how I got into it is another complicated question, or no, it's a simple question,

but a complicated answer, I suppose. I think we get into what we do now ourselves by our own awakenings, which began for me, I suppose in my childhood, I didn't have language for it then, retrospectively I think that's what was happening for me in my especially early teens. I was waking up and when kids wake up it often presents poorly and comes out badly and so people don't know what's going on, so parents aren't know what's going on. So parents aren't able to see that and guide it.

Instead they shut it down and see as something to be fixed. I have eight grandchildren, at least two of them are weird. And I think their weirdness is their superpower. But the school system is trying to fix them. And I think they are convinced that they are naughty children because they don't fit well. And I think they're waking up in their own little ways with why they're wired.

And I see this. My gift to them, having been through that stage of my life, is to protect them from the tyranny of the education system in our country, which is an awful one-size-fits-all approach. So I'm presuming that that was your experience in the education system. I think it's most, Kagi, it's most. I've done a lot of research on this, talked to a lot of people, talked to thousands of young people all over the Western world, so I don't drop that out as a subjective opinion or observation. Our education system, like our healthcare system,

is in huge trouble because we are misunderstanding the human condition. The education system, to me, is obsessed with answering one question, how intelligent are you, meaning academically. It's the wrong question. The question should be, how are you intelligent? This is why movies like the X-Men,

with the school for mutants and movies like that, have captured the imagination of our children, because they see themselves in these misfits and long for a place where they don't feel a misfit, like my two grandchildren, who are made to feel that they don't fit and they are made to feel that they should and they should not. There's a degree of social adjustment that we all have to do to survive.

I get that. But that's where the ego lives. The ego wants you to stay there in society's idea of who you should be. So I think in my younger years, in my early teens, I say that because I remember a careers advisor came to the school. It was careers week, it was called back then. In my time we had this awful thing called an 11 plus exam. Oh, so did I. Okay, well, if you failed it you went to secondary school, which is what I did, where all the stupid kids went, that was the vibe. And I went to the secondary school and on careers week the careers advising

people come in and sit with each child and chat about what you want to do for a living. So I was within earshot of my mates having their late interview and I knew this guy just had a script and he had no interest or probably hated his job. No interest at all in helping kids. So when I sat down, I was ready for the script and he said to me, what do you want to do? Because my answer wasn't standard for kids at that school's level of expectancy, he already was freaking out. I said, I want to be a fighter pilot. He said, what did you say? I said, I want to be a fighter pilot. And he smiled as if to say, okay, that's funny. Now let's get some reality in here. So he said to me does your dad do and I'd heard him ask my friends that because whatever they

said next he would say maybe dad can get you an apprenticeship because that's how things went back then so when he trotted out the script what does your dad do I said to him my dad's a serial killer he said to me what did you say to me I said my dad's a serial killer. Because he couldn't say next, maybe he can get you a job. So I tell you that story to tell you that I think I'm about 14, 15 at this time.

I now look back and realize something in me was putting two fingers up if you like, to the system. And it was clumsy and it was experienced by him as rude and disrespectful, like my two grandkids often feel. But it was some form of waking up. And so when you say, what do I do?

I think what I do now started back then, but it did not look like that. I wanna say to some of your listeners, you are waking up, but it will not look like that. I want to say to some of your listeners, you are waking up, but it will not look like that to anyone else. And so you need to be listening to conversations like this so that you don't feel like you're going out of your mind. But there's something wrong with you.

We want you to feel seen, we want you to feel it's okay, we want you to feel safe, and we want you to find guiding voices that help you to stay on that track you're on because there aren't enough of them for us to believe you'll find one easily. So we're glad you're here, Kenneth.

I put up something not that long ago about how the education system has failed us and it got a lot of backlash from people, which is understandable if you work as a teacher or something like that, you're going to naturally be defensive. But it's obviously something you've given a lot of thought to. So I would love to kind of unpack that a little bit more about some of the ways that it has been a hindrance to us and what a future might look like in the education system that is more progressive to this way of being. I've talked to hundreds, maybe thousands, I don't know, it's a lot around the world in the Western world, especially teachers who are not defensive. They completely get it in this country right now. We have a massive teacher shortage and it's because teachers

are so burned out and so fed up and so underfunded and so exhausted. I worked in schools a lot over the years and our friends that now work in schools in a consultancy role, it is a jungle and a minefield out there. What you can and can't say, what you can and can't teach, what approach you can and can't have, what energy you can and can't come in with. Discipline is a massive issue in these inner city schools as we all know. What do you mean by that? Well because these kids are out of control.

They're absolutely out of control. They come from non-discipline homes. They come from homes where they are not loved and cared for often in a way that we might expect would be there for them. And so they bring their trauma, and that's what it is, into their school room. And they're out of control at home, often have no parenting at all and no parents.

And it's like live feral almost outside of school. And then come into school, which is a controlled environment where you gotta sit and listen. Not only does it suit them in terms of their normal life, it doesn't suit many of them like my two grandchildren by the way they're wired either. So when I talk about this publicly, as I have all over the world, I always get teachers in the audience come to me and say, thank you for saying that, because no one's saying that. And we are fed up and we are burnt out. That is the norm.

I know there's exceptions, but they are exceptions. The norm isn't resistance from teachers. It isn't pushback from teachers. It is, yes, you are right. And what can we do, they say to me. And I say to them, it can't be changed and it can't. It cannot be fixed. This is so rigged and so enmeshed in its rigging with the government and how they see education

and how they fund it and the paranoia in schools about getting a tick box from them so that they don't get in trouble and go down the list of quality schools and so on and so on. The whole system, like the healthcare system, is not rigged for human flourishing. It's just not. Can you explain what you mean when you say it's rigged by the government versus it just being an archaic system that's out of date? Well, it's both of those things. But there are lots of things that are archaic, but people have a vested interest in maintaining the archaic. That's true in politics, it's true in education, it's true in healthcare, it's true in religion, it's true in many expressions of life that things are archaic,

many traditions are archaic, and I'm all for tradition. But when we become enslaved to them when we are the servant of them Education should be serving us. We shouldn't be serving it and we are the health care system should be serving us We shouldn't be serving it and the same with religion and so on. So yes, I think it's both I think it's archaic and I think there's a vested interest in it being like it is. I mean imagine, imagine a world where kids didn't have to go to school. It's illegal not to go to school. There's a problem right there. It should not be illegal to not go to school. It should be illegal to go to school if you're not wired that way and that's why it can't be fixed. We need massive brand new ideas for how to educate little humans.

And that's why in America especially, and in this country to a degree, there's been a massive switch and move to homeschooling because people are fed up of what the one size fits all batch mentality approach to humans does and what the kids out of it. But what about, is this not something to be said for meeting other kids at school and being part of a community in that sense? You can find that in other ways. You don't need to go to school to meet other kids and switched on parents know that they want their kids to be socialized and that can be done in multiple ways, not just at

school. So I get that my grandchildren more than should be okay about a lot of trauma in this socializing at school. A lot of bullying goes on, a lot of tribalism, violence, drugs. Two of my grandkids have been very badly bullied at school. This is not uncommon when I talk to people, kids and adults and teachers around the world. So this quote socializing is overrated at school. So I get it, it's good when it's good. And it's not good when it's not good. And it's not good for lots of kids.

But that doesn't mean there aren't other options to be socialized more on your terms, if you like, in a more controlled way. So where do you see it going in a more sort of utopian ideal? We need X-Men schools. We need some version. We do. We need some version of, I don't know, academies that are tempted to do this, these more progressive

academies, but they're not really attracting the kids that probably need the most help. But I think some version of that, some... I read this beautiful story of a lady called Gillian Lynn. Gillian was kicked out of school. She'd now be in her 80s because she was labeled as disruptive and awkward and rude, disrespectful, like two of my grandkids tend to get that vibe. Back then, of course, there wasn't much help. So she talks now, when I read her story in her seventies of the terrible day that her mother was called to school. She'd be about eight or nine at this time.

Was taken into the headmaster's office. And she was so terrified. And she talks about the trauma of that day and sitting at that desk and the feet couldn't touch the floor in the big chair and the big guy behind the desk that she'd never talked to before, the headmaster, and her mother sat there and then what happened next was the turning point of her life because the headmaster turned to her mother and said can you come out of the room with me a moment and And as he left the room,

he turned the radio on and they went out of the room and she just sat there when it was going on thinking she was in huge trouble. And he took the mother out of the room, looked back into the room through a glass panel in the door and watched her. And he said to her mother, watch her. And within seconds of them leaving the room, she's off the chair, jigging around to the music on the radio he'd randomly put on. And the mother said, I know, that's why she's in so much trouble.

I know, this is what we can't sort out and can't fix. I'm so sorry. He said, no, no, no. He said, I've made you do this because I want to tell you, your daughter is a dancer. She shouldn't be in school. He said she needs to move to learn. If you can get her into some kind of academy, some kind of place that lets her do that all day. Long story short, that's what she did. Gillian Lin became and still is one of

the leading choreographers in the world and she spent years as the premier dancer in the London School of Ballet and other ballet companies around the world. And she's a dance genius. She's choreographed so many West End shows. That happened when she was eight or nine, because someone saw in her something and then was able to somehow channel it. And I want to say to so many of our listeners who themselves struggle with this at school

about now your kids or in my case your grandkids, is there someone in your orbit that as we talk about this Kagi, you and I, they're thinking, oh my God, that's her, that's him. And would this make you maybe be more sympathetic or more curious about that kid in a way that you could maybe create some space for them? I completely agree. But also what about the individuals that are listening for thinking, that was me at school, but nobody saw me. And they still feel that sort of slightly in a cage, because of course, education system sets you up for a society that is similar in its functioning in many ways. And I think a lot of people still feel that sense

of I'm just in the rat race, I'm on the hedonic treadmill, but I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. But I feel like I'm so far gone and caught up in it all and I don't have anyone to turn to or any mentors or teachers that hopefully might see me. What is your advice for them? I would say first of all, if that's what they're saying to themselves, you are already waking up, so that's good. I know it's frustrating to have that going on in your head and have nowhere to go with it and feel trapped. But if it's in your head, it's there for a reason. It's the beginning of waking up.

It's your intuitive self saying to you, this is not who you are or were meant to be. And this is the stuff of what's classically called, as you know, midlife crisis. People do get to a point in their life after they're slowed down on the treadmill a wee bit and think, oh god I hate my life this is not who I am I don't live what I want to live I don't work what I live I'm not who I want to be with my life is not my life it is other people's version of my life it is cultures

version of my life it's my parents version of my life and so on. So I would say to people it's never too late to wake up and to see that waking up is small incremental things it's not grand eat pray love trips to India. You can have an eat pray love awakening in small things you do or don't do today that nudge you away from autopilot settings that are taking where you don't want to go. Small things you can do today what are they perhaps it's just it's just a small thing it's maybe just a I don't want coffee with you this week to the person that does their head in and locks them into who they don't want to be. Next time she says that, I'm going to say something

about what I really feel. It could be some thing of that kind, and it all matters and it all counts because the more of those you do in a day, the more you cooperate, your intuitive self that is wanting you to wake up. And your inner guidance system. Which we all have and no one knows they have that.

That's why we so rely on other people to tell us what to do for our lives. And we rely on the education system and we rely on all the multi-led systems that are telling us you have to do this and be there and go there and do that. This is for you, this is not for you. And life is rigged.

Life is rigged from before we're born, because you are born labeled. You're born male or female, black or white, rich or poor, American, German. So all those labels, you're born with no involvement from you. Then the first 10 years of your life, nurture and culture start adding thousands more labels onto you. So yes, life, not just the education system, life is rigged for you not to be you. There's so many things that you've just touched on that I want to explore and one I watched you speak about shifts in life and I guess what came up for me is often the resistance to them when they happen and how we equate negative feelings with something being wrong.

But I think what you were saying in this was that shifts kind of come to us and they force us into a change. And that often comes with negative experiences, feelings, emotions. And I feel that that's quite appropriate to what we're talking about now when you sort of have that niggling feeling that something's off but you think that's bad so you just numb it down or you you go on social media because you don't want to entertain it. It starts with niggling and if you pay attention to it it gets worse. If the niggling doesn't get your attention, it will fade. And it just is framed as, what was that today? I don't know.

I don't know why I did that today. And if what you did today was, for instance, say, you spoke your mind or you tried to create a boundary with someone that does your head in, and you made to feel terrible for that and bad for that, if you add to that that you were raised to be a people pleaser, for whom boundaries are difficult anyway, you're not going to do it again. Or you're going to apologize that you found your own voice to someone that does your head in.

There is an awakening happening all across the world and particularly in the Western world amongst our young people. And so you and I may unfortunately be a bit ahead of our time, which sounds good but it's not. Being ahead of your time is an affliction, it's not a joy, it's usually a pain. Any pioneering is by definition suffering and I think we're in that space. But we'll grab as many as we can, we'll try to help as many as we can in the time we're in that space. But we'll grab as many as we can. We'll try to help as many as we can in the time we're in this space. And I wanna say to people, it starts with a niggle.

Please pay attention to the niggle. What is the niggle? Who, what brings that out? I have become a big believer in journaling to capture the niggle. And so some version I would say to people of, I felt this today when I was around so-and-so. I felt this today when I watched that TV show. I felt this today when I saw that happen on The Two.

What was it? The moment you language it, you now begin to do something really important to waking up which is pattern spotting You now begin to see this was not random the happenings are random But it's the same thing in every random experience. It's one thing. It's one thing trying to get your attention But because it happens in multiple things you think they're all separate Can you spot the one thing that happened with your parents or with your job or on the tube or at Starbucks when you're interacting with the barista

or with a homeless guy, can you find the one thing when you start to language it, now you get a pattern, now you're beginning to wake up. And I guess you can use that for the positives if you're sort of feeling a little bit unsure of what direction to go. You can follow the joy or follow the experiences or interactions that make you feel magnetic and lit up and be like, OK, well, what's in that? So it's the pattern recognition in both aspects. Absolutely. yeah. You speak a lot about leadership. And whilst that might seem a sort of a foreign area

to a lot of people, essentially we're kind of the leaders of our own lives, or we should be. So would you be able to unpack your uncoverings from that space and your kind of advice for people wanting to take on more of a role as a leader and an authority in their own lives. Leadership is a hijacked word in the West because we've made it positional. Leadership is influence, end of. Anyone you influence, and this is why this culture at school is so Pervasive in shaping our lives

Whoever influences you is leading you When I was a kid, I had a friend called Christopher Christopher was a bugger and my mom hated him because Christopher was rebellious. He was naughty. He was probably Like one of my grandkids. I love Christopher for all the wrong reasons. So I never told my mother why I was with Christopher because she forbid it. When I got home with him with Christopher, she always knew because Christopher was on me, his influence was on me, because what Christopher made me do was back chat my mother. I got an attitude, I got a swagger from Christopher

that I didn't have for me. And my mother picked up Christopher's influence on me. Now my mother's dilemma was this. My mother was my authority, but she had no influence. And this is the frustration with parents with children. This is why parents get freaked out about who are you with, who are you with? Because they know that though they're out of authority, and by the way, so do the cops, so do the government, etc., etc.

You may be my prime minister or my government or whatever level you are to my life or my school teacher but if you don't have the influence we are paying no attention. Our attention is where we are influenced and we influence where we feel seen and loved and accepted and not judged for who we are. Those are the ingredients or where we feel influenced. So I would say to people on leadership first of all, forget the word in the way that you have been told it works and therefore you don't think you are one. Everyone is potentially a leader if you trade in influence and influence by the way, influence is the primary currency of exchange in the world. If you are attached to command and obey leadership structures,

you are trading in an old currency because those days are done and are dying, and I'm so glad for that. They're fading. This is why I said to you a moment ago, there's an awakening in the emerging generation, and the awakening is fueled by a revolution against the old systems of command and obey. Because we've got the wrong people in charge and have had for several generations. And it continues in the Western world. We keep putting people like Trump in charge and it's killing our world.

I understand his appeal. I do. I lived in America for years. I get the appeal for Americans of someone like that and others of his like around the world. But there's an awakening amongst young people that are saying, these people's day is over. This is why in America, some years ago, Oprah gave a speech at the Grammy Awards when the Me Too thing was kicking off after the Harvey Weinstein thing had happened.

And Oprah gave a beautiful speech and there was a thing trending on social media, Oprah for president. Now, of course, Oprah would hate that and laughed it off. What it's saying is that's actually what we want. We want Oprah's in charge, like we were so thrilled when Mandela got in charge. Because the Oprah's and Mandela's of this world have something that the Trumps and the Sunnaks

and the whoever's around the world apparently don't have or we don't see it, is that they love people. Oprah loves people. Mandela loved people and have massive influence with no authority. Oprah has influence that politicians could only dream of. I love that distinction between authority and influence and I can very much relate to that and it sounds like, you know, for both you and I we view political figures as they may be the authority because of the system that governs us, but they have zero influence on me. And that's, to be honest, I've always been that way. So I'm quite unaffected. And of course, there's a lot of layers that go into that as well. But for those people, and I've definitely noticed this, especially over the pandemic, for people that might have followed those systems

quite without really questioning why, because that's what we're taught, but feeling an internal discomfort that something is off and they're being shoved in a direction that isn't for their own good, but can't quite place why. There's a huge majority of people waking up, but there's also a huge majority of people who are still in that sort of programming and feeling, yeah, that dichotomy of, what am I supposed to do with this feeling?

Yes, that's always been there to some degree. It gets worse the more people are waking up and the more you find that book or find that podcast and you listen to it as a newcomer to this space and you think oh my god And I you know, i've done this for a long time now and all over the world Especially with live audiences, which of course, you know all got shot to hell with covid. I know But doing that a little bit more this last couple of years has been lovely to meet people face to face and have a live on the spot feedback. I get it on zoom too but you know meeting a person you know when you go to a mall and you're trying

to find a shop and you look at the mall map there's a little red tag there that says you are here. People experience a you are here moment when they listen to conversations like we're having or come to an event like I mentioned it to you and what they're coming and saying to you is when I heard you say that I realized something about my life I Realized that that's my you are here my you are here Kagi my own personal you are here probably 30 plus years ago was, I'm stuck, I am unhappy, feel trapped, I'm angry, I'm anxious, I don't have a no voice,

I'm not how I wanna be, but I don't know who that is either, I'm surrounded by the wrong people. So unless you have a UI here moment that's gonna sound something like that, you stay at the threshold. You don't come through the door that's that we're inviting people through today. And I think we wanted to say to people, if you're new to this space, and these things you're experiencing are new, please don't interpret that as a reason to go back. See it as a reason to be curious, just be curious even would at least be good because we can help you, there's help out

there. I think whenever you're battling something for which you feel there's no help or who can I talk to about this then we don't and it goes underground and never becomes what it should be and I think that's huge out there, especially in Europe. Yeah. I feel like what you said is I very much relate to and went through that period myself. And I always like to say to people, often our rock bottoms are synonymous with our spiritual awakenings and not to fear.

Of course, at the time it feels horrible and everything's uncertain but often that is the beginning. Which is horrible isn't it? I mean it's horrible to say to people you're gonna have to have a dark night at the soul. Who the hell wants that? No, not on sound. But it'll come. It'll come. And I see no other way. I see no other way than that. You can't awaken without realizing what was putting you to sleep. You need to find guiding voices because to awaken without guidance is to feel abandoned in your awakening. And so you stay there. Honestly, you know, it's maybe a small thing but it was a real thing for me

because I journaled it. So years ago, I don't know how many years ago now, maybe six, seven years ago, I grew my hair and one day I tied it up and the comments I began to get from my family and friends like, oh, having a midlife crisis, oh, you look like a drug dealer. It was kind of, it was a gendered teasing because what they're trying to say is we're uncomfortable with that. And then I grew up, I never had a beard. I grew a beard. And I thought, you know what I thought to me, I'm rocking the hell out of this look. I thought to myself, I

didn't tell anybody that and I thought, No, this is okay. I like it. And then I saw when I was traveling around the world, particularly in America now, I remember in one week I was there, I journaled it. I had about at least a dozen Strangers said to me. I love your look or I love your hair No one in my own circle was saying that to me So in my circle of familiarity I Felt I was doing something wrong and you know what I love these people and they love me

So they're probably right, but I was waking something wrong. And you know what? I love these people and they love me, so they're probably right. But I was waking up too much to realize, no, my own evolving in my physical appearance, that's a reflection of my internal shifts, is uncomfortable to you, not least because it's reminding you of how much you're not doing that.

Because when's the last time you did something different with your appearance? When's the last time you had the courage and then I began to Wear caps, you know, the Peaky Blinders made it all mainstream but before those guys made it more comfortable for a guy to wear a cap and then again all the Snidey remarks and stuff. it's just kind of just that. Then I started getting a tattoo here and there's like, what the hell? So it's kind of that. So on the set of people listening, I know for you guys, you might think, hell, it's

okay you guys talking like that. All I did last week was wear a different piece of jewelry or fancy shoes or whatever. All hell broke loose. And that's why people stay safe and inside of the people's permissions. And it's awful. I think that that is such a huge thing that you've just touched on

that I deeply relate to even still now. And I find myself sort of living in the prison of other people's perception of what I should or shouldn't be doing. And to kind of echo everything we've just said, if you think differently, if you're not a linear thinker, the likelihood that people are going to understand that are thinking that way, what you're about and what you're trying to create is very unlikely. I always try and advise people to be wary of who they share their dreams, your desires, your ideas with, because if people don't get it, or they think that it's too complex or too disruptive,

too disruptive. Exactly. That's a great one. Then they are going to just, for lack of a better word, kind of shit on it. They don't mean to, but they will. Yeah, they will. And so will, and that's why I talk about education system. The education system will shit on it. And all of these groups, communities, systems that we travel through in life are not geared at all

to celebrate your individuality, your awakening, your uniqueness. And so the most common thing you're gonna find is pushback and resistance. That's why I think what we do can get really matters to people. I had no help. When I began to wake up 30 years ago,

there wasn't me and you. There was these odd American voices. When I say odd, I mean, they were rare. And of course odd to voices I would ever hear or any my generation. There's much more help now, which is a good thing. I read a great books some years ago called Conscious Parenting.

And the idea of it was that most of our parenting of course isn't conscious. And so when unconscious parents raise unconscious children, it generationally continues. And so when they come across someone like you or me, something inside intuitively locks onto it from our internal GPS. But we don't know what that was,

and that can happen with a TV show or a movie or an encounter somewhere or something you see or experience or feel. It can happen with an animal or in nature. You feel something. And what people do is they try to recreate whatever it was by, you know, I'm going to go and backpack there for a while, I'm going to go and do more of that. And they're chasing the reproduction of a feeling and the feeling was simply a calling card. It wasn't a destination, it was simply a calling card. It was like a postcard from the future saying, I wish you were here. That's what it was. But unless you know that's what it was, you try to chase that feeling. It was an invitation to be curious, to look closer. And if you do that, you'll find the feeling has more substance and it's attached to something that's to do with who you're supposed to be. If you follow

those energies, you'll bump into yourself a lot more than how you're wired. But people often don't make it that far. Why? Because they're afraid. Because they don't know what the hell it is, or they think, oh, that was lovely, or she was a lovely person, or that was a great guy. And then that's it. They kind of just carry on and think, oh, you know what? Yeah, I talked to this guy, he was great, and that was it. They don't realize, no, no, no, whoa, whoa, stop. It wasn't a great person.

They are your people. That person is your people. Don't lose touch. Don't think, oh, that was nice. These random people that you feel that bonding with, that make you feel seen. It is not accidental, it is not random. It is the same thing through your life

that you haven't pattern spotted yet. I have met so many people, and like, oh my God, where have you been all my life? It's that. 100%. And also it's kind of, when you step into that authenticity or you make those decisions, whether it's the pattern recognition and going, actually, those aren't the spaces I'm supposed to occupy. That's not the thing that I'm supposed to be doing. And I always like to call it

sort of a self-inflicted exile where you have to go into a bit of a no man's land where you've left the version of you that you know isn't truly who you are. And that will be with the people and the habits and the behaviors. But then naturally when you do step into that space, you do just start magnetically aligning or gravitating towards people that are on the same frequency as you.

And I always try and explain that to people and it sounds incredibly woo woo. I know that, but I know it to be true. But I also know that that is what our audience is sort of grappling with at the moment. Energy doesn't lie. You can lie. I can lie. Your conversation can lie. The ideas of who you think you are can lie, energy doesn't lie. A lot of communicators are poor because they don't realize your voice is saying one thing but your energy is undermining you. So you can talk to me about love but if you don't have any love I won't feel loved by you. You can teach on peace but

if you're a drama queen we're going to pick up that from you. There's a misalignment. So if you can dial up your ability to tune into energy rather than language follow that. Because on that what are your thoughts because we've just said you know and touched on how social media has been amazing and connecting people and spreading the awareness and these thoughtful conversations. But I have also noticed that there is a lot of people that are communicating the right language, saying things that sound legit. But there is a misalignment often

that I feel is that something that you've noticed and what is your take on that? Yeah, I think you've just got to if you can be bothered, you know, when I find a voice that I feel is an alignment, I will spend some time around that voice and see if the alignment sensation continues. And if it does, then that's a good addition to the voices in my world. If I don't and find that what I saw was a bit

of them faking and inventing, but when you fine tune your energy radar, you also increase your bullshit radar and you are able to become far more attuned to I know that someone trying to appear kind But my bullshit radar is off the charts. This is why it's a good thing for us to talk about this Because a lot of people are much better around this area. They think oh, yeah, I'm great I can read people a mile off, but they don't see value in that. That could bring you home

That alone could bring you home because that is your intuition. Intuition doesn't need language. It doesn't need explanation or context. And because we are disconnect from intuition at birth, none of us know what the hell that is that we just felt. Because we so live in our heads in a left brain logic world we've been raised in for generations.

We don't know what that still small voice is. We don't know. When it serves you well on a given day and maybe saves your life on a given day, which it can, we think oh that was great I don't know what that was. And so we're saying to people lean into that because you may not understand, you may not be a reader, you may not want to come into this space with any sense of academic approach or intellectual approach because he doesn't suit you. Okay, come into this space then through intuitive self. Come into it that way. Do you believe that everyone has their own way of reading those things? Yeah, I do. And I think it's very unique and that's why I don't think we can ever...

That's why I'm so pissed off by the school system because we're telling kids this is how you learn. I have four daughters, one of them hated school with a passion. When I was going to a parent teacher's evenings I dreaded it because every teacher was doing she's terribly terrible that but I was waking up at this point to rescue her from the tyranny of that. I was with the history teacher, Mrs. Smith, and said to me, Mr. Scanlon, your daughter is really struggling. I'm like, no shit, Sherlock. She's going to fail history,

and I'm quite concerned about it, but I have a plan. With your help, this plan could get her a pass. She won't get an A or a B, but we could get her at least a pass grade. She said extra homework, staying after school doing remedial history, getting some coaching from other kids that are better at history than her.

And this combinational approach, we'll get a pass if we do this together for the next three months or so. I said, hell no. She said, what did you say? I've never heard a parent say anything like that to me. In other words, her energy to me was you're a failing parent, you don't care about your child. All of that was in her response to me.

And that's why we cave in as parents to the system. And I said, okay, Mrs. Smith, let me ask you a few questions. First of all, has it ever occurred to you that not everybody loves history? And she looked at me like, Oh my God, who is this person? But I wasn't gonna let go because she wasn't getting it. She was just like, let's give Esther all this extra homework. And I'm like, you know what? I'm already doing all Esther's homework. I'm exhausted. I have no room for any more homework

because I was doing it. So I said, okay, Mrs. Smith, I said, has it occurred to you secondly that your kids are in history because they want to be they're not in history because they want to be that in history because of bell rang. Because it reminds me actually, when I was at school, it was quite similar to your daughter, I had a lot of extra help. Like

I carry quite a lot of shame about it even still today, because it, you know, it was literally just to pass my GCSEs, I had to have a huge amount of extra help, which I felt was a burden to my parents. And I was like, there's something wrong with me. I must be stupid. But then looking back, I much later in life got into music and singing.

And I remember my parents were like, how did we not know that this, but because it wasn't in my, it wasn't in my family. It wasn't brought out of me at school. And so I just was constantly trying to fit into classrooms and subjects that I didn't connect with in any capacity. The Mrs. Smith episode was a game changer for me in terms of me, I wished I'd woke up sooner about that

to protect my other children from their versions of that. But I said, Mrs. Smith, these kids are here because they have to be, not because they want to be. I don't like the education system because I said, it makes kids feel bad for what they're not good at, but it doesn't celebrate them for what they are good at because he doesn't know what they're good at.

I said, my daughter, Esther, is brilliant at something you don't know about, and this school does not know about. She said, what is that? I said, she's brilliant with children. She said, what do you mean? What I meant was, and this was a superpower she had and still has, if you had a screaming baby,

you know, as a parent, and couldn't console that child, even its mother. Esther when she was young at school, a teenager, you give that baby to her it goes into a coma. That's such a gift. She just had this amazing intuitive connection and emotional intelligence with kids. So I tell this to Mrs. Smith looks at me like what the hell's that got to do with history? Like, we can't do anything with that. And I'm like, yeah, that's the problem here. Because it doesn't fit anywhere in your system. You think, what's the value of this conversation

is what she's thinking. Like, can we get back to history? I said, look, isn't history about like, and I just pause and thought, 1066, King Harold Battle of Hastings got an arrow in the eye in the Norman invasion. I said to her, isn't history about shit like that? She said to me, I am so impressed that you remembered that. I'm not impressed. I'm like, I can't win here.

So I said, no, no, no. I said, whoa can't win here. So I said, no, no, no. I said, whoa, stop, stop. I said, stop, don't be impressed because that's the first time in 40 years I've ever used it. That's how useless it's been to me. And I said, the problem is if history is about memorization of dates,

Esther, my daughter, can't remember where her shoes are. So this is a disaster waiting to happen and she loves her shoes. So if she can't remember where something is that she loves, why would she give a shit about who the king was on the throne in 1495? Oh, it's so true. would she give a shit about who the king was on the throne in 1495? Oh, it's so true. I left that conversation. I went home said to Esther what I've just told you.

She said, Dad, you said that to Mrs. Smith? I said, yes. She said, Dad, I love you so much. So anyway, a few months later, she failed history and everything else. And she was she she couldn't go to A level, she had no option. She's out of school, she's at home. She's thinking, oh my God, my life is over. I can't get a good job now. I can't go to uni. I have no future, that kind of vibe.

And she was pretty low actually, I felt for her. But believed in her in this child thing. I said, Esther, you're great with kids. I know, but dad, I've got to pass exams to work with kids and I'm gonna be back in the same problem Then I can't pass exams. I said we'll cross that bridge when we come to it long story short But this is long enough long story short We were out somewhere and event We were in the crowd at this event and I was talking to friends socializing in the corner and she rushed over to me she said, dad, dad, she was crying, you'll never believe

what happened. I said what? She had a big wad of money in her hand. She said I got a job working with kids. I said what? What? Hang on in this random event? She said yeah.

She said I just met a guy over there in the corner who came to listen. It was one of my speaking events and she said he listened to you speaking he was in the crowd there were several hundred about six hundred people there and she said we're in the crowd after socializing and this guy was talking to people that knew me knew I was your daughter and he was chatting to them about the event and did they know Paul and they said yes, he didn't know me and got chatted to him. Turns out this guy is a professional footballer who was looking for a nanny and they said to him, you should talk to Paul's daughter, she's amazing with children.

He said, what? You serious? Is she here? They said, yes, she's there. Her name is Esther. They said, Esther, come over here, introduce him to her, all the deals done. And I said, what? She said, I start in a few days time. He lives close by us. I said, what? I said, what's the money? She said, he said to me, can you drive? She said, no, I can't afford the driving lessons right now, they're so expensive. He said, he has 500 pounds out of his pocket. Get yourself driving lessons. And when that runs out, I'll give you more. Wow.

Well, I think, by the way, I think you'll have to regret that. Did she take a few times? I have attempts to pass it. There's just him a bloody fortune. It's at me four. I feel like me and Esther get on quite well. That openness when he met her cost him thousands. Anyway, I couldn't resist what happened next, Kagi. It was so naughty. And she's crying. She's so happy. I said, Whoa, whoa, stop, stop, stop. Did you tell him that you failed history?

stop stop. Did you tell him that you failed history? But you know, see, nobody gives a shit. Yeah. She's got that job. She worked with him for years. And then four years after she worked with children and still does. So there you go. That's my whole point. Up you education system. I'm Mrs Smith. Oh, well, Paul, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing such wonderful stories. You're a magnificent storyteller, I must tell you. And for all your wisdom, I've really enjoyed speaking with you. Thank you. You're welcome. It's been a joy. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Saturn Returns. I hope that you found it useful and if you did please share it with a friend who you think might enjoy it or share us on social media that always helps us get discovered by more like-minded people and if you haven't followed the show please please do that now that helps us grow and find other members of the Saturn Returns community so as always thank you and remember you're not alone goodbye