Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - COVID-19: One Year Later

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

It's been around a year since COVID-19 began to reshape America. On this week's episode of Sawbones, we look back at the past 12 months and examine what we've learned and what we've lost. We'll also take a look at the current state of vaccine rollouts and answer some of your questions.Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, talk is about books. One, two, one, two, three, four. Hello everybody and welcome to Saul Bones, a for the mouth. Hello everybody and welcome to Salbone's a marital tour of Miscited Medicine.

I'm your co-host Justin McAroy. And I'm Sydney McAroy. Justin, it's been a long year. It's been a long December and November and October and September and August, July and June, May, April, March. March. And all of a sudden, January that was after the December

that was for mention and the February March that followed it. Good. All right. Good. We're good on that now. And it's one more day stuck inside our house. OK. You're just going to keep going.

And it's one more night and huntington. Okay. My siblings and I have, my siblings and I have taken to calling it Mourch. Mourch. It's just more March. It's just been more March ever since last March, so it's Mourch. Mourch. It's still Mourch. Welcome to, it's. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mortch. Mort. Mortch. Mort. Mortch. Mort. Mortch. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mortch. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mortch. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort. Mort about it. I'm not the first one to notice it. Everybody's noticing it. I think it's like you want to avoid thinking about it too much, but at the same time, I really feel like it's important we engage with it, because it's going to get you. It's weird, Sid.

I'm talking about this at length, I'm not telling you anything, you don't know. But the days, so we had a very surreal experience where we things were Seeming fine with COVID we went on the Joko cruise came back different country did recognize the boys and masters know to have Bapering where yes and that I don't I think trauma is probably overstating it, but it was definitely profound that return trip. And those days are so crystallized. Those days following our disembarkation and reentry into this new new world,

they're so crystallized that it feels like last week. I remember the very first trip, I took to CVS after we got back to try to find like toilet paper because we got off the toilet paper. We didn't get a crack at it. That stuff like that. Like I remember it like it was yesterday. It's like so cemented. I agree with you that having experienced that same exact scenario with you. I do not feel that I had it that that was traumatic, but I do think it's important to acknowledge the trauma that this year generally hasn't inflicted on many, if not most of us.

I do think that that word is not overstated to use in regard to a year of fear and loss and change and anxiety. Obviously, Bruce McCullough says we all get through life skade and unscathed in our own and loss and change and... It's all degrees, right? Anxiety, yeah. Obviously, Bruce McCullough says, we all get through life skade and unscathed in our own ways. And I feel like this is very much a situation. That obviously there's people who've lost everything.

There's people who've lost their lives. There's people who've just been cranking it, non-stop 24-7, no holds barred. They are not the best people, but there's people who've been out there chopping it up and living it. So they've suffered very little because they just went ahead with whatever they were doing. Yes, that is true. In our own ways, maybe they were moderately mildly traumatized when the waiter at Captain D's made them put on a mask or something like that? Well, I will say that, yeah, I don't have a lot of sympathy if your entire trauma is someone.

Someone made me put a mask on. Someone made me put a mask on so that my rights not to kill other people with a deadly virus were violated because I had to wear a mask and be a decent human. That is not exactly the trauma of which I speak. But I would like to first acknowledge that when I look back on our year of COVID coverage, we, I like to think, have evolved in the way that science is supposed to evolve because as people have pointed out, which is fair,

when we initially began to talk about the novel coronavirus that was happening in China more than a year ago, we did not see what was coming. I certainly was not prescient with anything that I said. I had no idea. I had no, obviously, I had no thought that this is what would occur. And I mean, and I, you know, not to beat myself up too much, I think most of us didn't.

No, but yeah, I, what do you think, what do you think our, our failing was? What do you think, what do you think you would do differently if you're in that situation again tomorrow? Because I have a, I have a thought, but I'd like to know what you think. I think that as much as I gave myself credit for not necessarily assuming that all the systems work, like for knowing better than that, for not trusting that just because we're told, we're safe for all these reasons

and all these systems are in place to protect us that we shouldn't trust that. I think on some level, I still did. And when so many, I mean, because like when we're talking about the coronavirus, there's two things to this in the United States. There's, I didn't see how bad this virus was going to be, which I think like, you can't give me too much crap for because very few people did. Very few experts in the world knew what was coming on that level.

But then I also still didn't think we would be so absolutely terrible at managing that response. I really didn't even with someone in charge that I did not feel was competent. I still didn't think we, I thought there was other stuff. I thought other people, there were other things that would keep it from getting this out. I would say that the, in terms of it finding a foothold, I think that caught the globe by surprise

because it's not like there was bad leadership in this country and good leadership in this country. Like, I'm the immediate short term, like it won't get through our borders. You know, it won't arrive here because they arrived everywhere. It got everywhere. I think, yeah. But I think it is, I overestimated and shame on me for, I overestimated the, the, I still

assumed that there were adults in the administration at the time, and who would like take over and handle it. And in a way, we saw some of those, right? We got our, we got fouts. We got fouts. We got fouts. But like, I really, I overestimated the extent to which we could believe, or believe is one because not everybody was called a flat footed as we were because there were people

at the highest levels of government that knew exactly what was going to happen. I mean, maybe exactly, but- Well, falsely new. Well, I mean, I don't mean that in a mean way, but you know what? I mean, I'm certain that falsely was in rooms telling people what was happening and trying to stop it. But the thing is, what it reminds us maybe more than anything is how linked we all are. Like we are all linked to each other and our actions affect everyone around us

and you can't have one person who's standing there trying to tell everybody else the truth alone and make an impact. You know, you need more than one person. And and I think there are a lot of people who have known this for a long time because they've suffered from the system that never did protect them, that the system that we had faith in, that we thought, well, certainly it couldn't get that bad. Certainly there are things in place. There are a lot of people in this country who know that those things aren't in place,

or who know that the system is built to actively work against them if you're a black person in America. Yeah. So I think that those are lessons learned. I like to think that at least, would never take down like old episodes we did where we weren't IEV or ignorant to what was to come because I like to hope that the way that we have evolved and the way we talk about it is the way that that mirrors the way that science should evolve. You get new data, you get new information, you take that in, you assess it, and you change your, you know, your understanding of a topic as necessary. That is the way,

oh, and that's the way we should all operate, right? Ideally, that is the way we should take in information. I didn't want to talk about sort of an update as to where we are now, and then answer some questions we've gotten recently about COVID and the vaccines and everything. Can I talk about another bad thing before you do that? Yeah. Something that I just, and I don't know, we're kind of, this is a pretty open-ended one. It was kind of like a year-long retrospective. Maybe a little bit cathartic. I felt maybe that was necessary, not just for us, but for everybody, everybody out there. Especially living where we live, I have not enjoyed... I'm a humanist at heart, and it's a tough time for that.

The past four, five, how many years. And I have not enjoyed being able to instantly tell if the person I'm looking at is a scumbag or not. I don't like that. I like to be able to, when you're living in our area, sometimes you see some challenging imagery on a t-shirt or whatever and you want to say like, you know what, I'm going to give that person a minute of the doubt. Maybe they're not so bad if I got to know them, blah, blah, blah, blah. But when you see people in the store and they aren't wearing a mask, it's like,

I don't like the instant sort of internal rage. I mean, the internal flip I make on that human being, that fellow human being who I have challenged myself in my existence to try to love as many people as possible and like to see people who I just know they suck. Like I instantly know you they suck. I hate that feeling. I hate it.

I feel like we have not had to experience this much in our circle. But if I had friends or family who totally didn't take it seriously and didn't do any of the stuff they were supposed to. I don't know how I would remain on speaking terms with them through this, through this very specific. I mean, there are lots of, gosh, well, the last years brought up lots of things like that, but we'll focus on COVID.

You're down that old friend's list. Yeah, but I don't going to ask them the chef. But I definitely think that luckily I have not had to lose anybody. I don't think over this specific issue. I have found that most of the people that we associate with do believe in science at least to some degree, enough to wear a mask. So the big buzz right now are, I would say like the vaccines and then the new guidelines that just came out

from the CDC at least in this country. If you live outside the US, the new CDC guidelines are probably not as exciting or interesting or whatever emotion they evoke for you. I'm an ignorant, you know, my computer, I'm pulling these up to your second, having them to reference. Well, let's start with that.

Let's start, I just changed my outline. I'm pulling these up to you seconds, having them to reference. Well, let's start with that. Let's start. I just changed my outline. We'll start with the CDC guidelines. So, you think this year hasn't been tough? Sydney's changing outlines. I changed my outline. I never changed my outline. Never.

This is like maybe the first time. Sometimes I might skip a chunk if I realize it's not very interesting. She usually just removes her own editing access to her Google document. No one can change this outline. No, just a never change it's an outline. Ever. What, just a never? No. No one can change this out. No one can change this out. No, Justin never changes an outline. Ever.

What, Justin never? No. No, all I've never. You don't even tidy me. I don't even like to see your little cursor appear on the Google Doc because it stresses me out. Yeah, I don't even log into my account when I look. It just is anonymous, platypus or whatever,

so I can maintain plausible the liability. Well, I am a good hack, sweetie. It's Russian. Russian's looking at your nose. I'm a control freak about one thing. It's my podcast. Really, just one thing. It's the most thing. So the new CDC guidelines came out on March 8th,

I believe, March 8th. And this is for fully vaccinated people. Then this has been the question, right? As soon as people started getting their vaccines, man, I love humans. I love humans. As soon as people started getting their vaccines, man, I love humans. I love humans. As soon as people started getting vaccinated, they started going, well, what can I do now? Well, I did it.

I got the vaccine. Look at my power. I'm trying to get power. Where can I go? What can I do? Why are there no new rules? I need new rules. There need to be new rules for me.

I can do stuff now. Everybody wanted to know. And so the CDC was like, fine, here. Everybody calm down here. And so generally speaking, not to, you can read them by the way, CDC.gov, you can go, look, you can Google new coronavirus guidelines, CDC, and they'll pop right up. So it's easy to find. But fully vaccinated people can visit with other fully vaccinated people indoors without wearing a mask or physical distancing. That's huge. I mean, it's a huge thing. I assume everybody was already doing that, right? I think vaccinated people were probably doing that. That's why I got vaccinated.

Come on. Well, that's not the only reason. But I think you can get to tell me, as far as I've been served, the CDC doesn't get to tell me what to do anymore. As far as I'm extra legal. I thought this other one was a bigger step. Visit with unvaccinated people from a single household who are at low risk for severe COVID-19 disease indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing and refrain from quarantine and testing, following a known exposure, if asymptomatic. So those are the big changes. The rest of it is like, but also you should tend you to,

and then they go into like when you're in public, you should still be wearing a mask and distancing. And all the other things that they talk about, if you have symptoms, you should still get tested, blah, blah, blah. Do what your boss says. If your boss says, I don't care, I want you to do this.

You have to follow the instructions to your employer, because the CDC doesn't get to trump your boss or whatever. But I thought that that second one especially was intriguing because what this speaks to is our new understanding. What we kind of, like I have said all along, what we kind of predicted, but are starting to see borne out in the data, which is that more than likely, when you get the vaccine, whichever vaccine you get, and are fully vaccinated, you can't transmit COVID either.

Now, that's not 100%. But it is so unlikely that you would transmit COVID that you couple that with an unvaccinated person who is at low risk, the risk of that entire situation becomes very low. And it's always important to remember that all these things we've talked about this whole past year is our risk management. It's not about saying 100% everyone's safe. It's about saying we think the risk of this situation is incredibly low, right? Because as we've talked about, the only no-risk situation would have been if everybody locked themselves away in rooms completely alone for however long that took. Right.

And that's not like a feasible thing for human society. So anyway, these, you know, I have been very critical of a lot of government- led efforts to limit restrictions and that kind of thing. And I am still, I'm looking at you, Texas, highly critical of removing mask mandates right now. There's just no reach. It's just so gross. Like, you're not hurting the economy

by having masks in place. I hear you're just being a man. I wish we could curse on this show, but you're being a dingus. Yes, well, people are gonna get hurt because of that. And it doesn't hurt you to wear a mask. And people will get hurt because others don't have to. And it's just that simple.

But anyway, I do think that these guidelines, like if you read them, because what first came out is vaccinated people can, I mean, that's what I was seeing on Twitter. Vaccinated people can run through the streets naked, screaming at the top of their lungs on mass, they're done. And that is not what the guidelines say. They're, they're still very restrictive. They're still very clear that like, you can't just go have a party. That's not what they're saying. They're saying that in very specific situations with people who have been vaccinated, there are some activities that they can engage in that

probably they were. And then- If I'm a vaccinated, Sydney, I appreciate what you're saying. If I'm a vaccinated, I'm going to do whatever I want to. If you are vaccinated, do you mean? If I'm vaccinated. Yes. Which I am. I'm going to do whatever I want. No, I wouldn't, I'm not advocating for that. Not yet. Okay, but I'm me. You and you are technically the boss of me in a sense. I am.

But I, I mean, I'm still going to wear a mask in public, right? Because that's a good, I say that. I'm still going to do that. But other than that, I'm not going to, I mean, there's stuff that is tougher because we've got the girls who are obviously not vaccinated. So that's part of what I want to get into our kids. But I'm not doing whatever I want. So you see some of us.

Tell me what I can't do. Now that I'm a vaccine person out there living the life I want. Well, Justin, you still need to wear a, they're right here, wear a well-fitted mask and physical distancing in your public. I'll do that. If you're visiting people who are at increased risk for severe COVID, you still need to wear a mask and

and all that stuff like, you still need to practice other prevention measures when you're visiting unvaccinated people from multiple households. So wear mask physical dust. And so if you're with like two families that are unvaccinated but low risk, but you're vaccinated, you still got to do all the old all the old stuff still don't don't change this avoid medium and large size gatherings. You've done easy get tested if you have symptoms follow guidance from your boss. That's me on your boss. Follow CDC and health department travel requirements. So I mean like there's still a ton, but that's okay. This is the way it should happen. It shouldn't be gradual. It shouldn't be

we're done. COVID ended today. You can stop now. I don't have to say six or eight away. Every one. Or either. Well, it depends. We're the guidelines in public. Yes. Yeah. Well, I did. I do that anyway. That's a slam dunk. But I like it. They stole that from me. If none of our couple friends are fully vaccinated, so I don't have anybody to like use as an example. But if they were, you and me could, as two vaccinated people go to the house

of two vaccinated people and not wear masks and not physically distance. So I think that was the biggest shift. And I have to say, like, I'm not particularly critical of any of this. This makes sense. This is science-based. This is where the science is pushing us.

This is what we always thought we would say is that eventually, once you're vaccinated, you're not going to be able to get or give COVID. For the most part, statistically, most likely, you can't. And so, it is okay for you to engage in activities of your. That would be fine. Like that is what we thought would happen. We just, nothing happens immediately. It's always a gradual process and we have to take it slow

so that we can pull back if things change. And this is a fluid situation where things can constantly change. These are reasonable. Removing a mask mandate. Come on. Ridiculous. Come on. I want to talk about some specific questions people have asked about some of the vaccines and then just some other random little COVID stuff. But before we do that, let's

go to the billing department. Let's go. Let my cards bar the mouse. Hey folks, it's me, James Arthur M. Host of Minority Corner. You're home through these But Wild Times for weekly doses of pop culture, history, news, nerdy stuff, and more through a BIPOC, queer and allied lens.

I already took you back in time through one time machine. We're going back even further. Tada, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da daudududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududududud conversations, those necessary conversations. This is now the moment for why people to be rising up and going, this is our problem. So join me in some of your new BFFs every Friday here at Maximum Fund to stay informed, empowered, and have some fun. Minority corner, because together we're the majority. All right, Sid, well, this is happening in the world of COVID. So the vaccines, so the big thing that happened more recently in the US, said, well, this is happening in the world of COVID. So the vaccines, so the big thing that happened more recently in the US, not super recently,

but more recently is that the Johnson and Johnson or Janssen vaccine was approved. Okay, I remember that. We haven't talked about it. Oh gosh, it's, you and I talk about this stuff so much. I forget what it is and isn't on the show. That's a one-shotter. Yes, that is a one-shotter.

It's easier to store. It's older technology. It's, we've talked about, I won't get into the weeds with all the tech because we've talked about on the show before, but it's one of the adenovirus vector vaccines. So they take a harmless cold virus that has been defanged, so to speak. They put the information in it to make the spike protein.

And then you put that in your body and your cells. Use that information to make the spike protein. And then you put that in your body and your cells, use that information to make the spike protein. Which is the same, that spike protein is the same focus of the Pfizer and the Moderna, the mRNA vaccines. We want our bodies to make the spike protein, so then our bodies learn how to fight the spike protein. So then when the spike protein on the coronavirus in the wild comes in your body, you go, ah, spike protein.

And kill it. Got it. Got it. So that sort of technology and antivirus vector is not as new. So to speak is the mRNA technology, although none of it, as we've talked about, is particularly new and it's all safe and very effective. This is exciting because it's one shot. It's exciting because it's so much easier to store and transport.

You don't have to have the deep-free stuff, the really cold stuff that you do with Pfizer and Moderna. So this is all great. And most recently, the president has announced that we will have enough for everybody who wants it to get it by May 1st, I believe. That's what he says. So it should just be willingily be willing by May 1st.

Everybody can go get it. Hopefully everybody wants it. That means June, gone pop off. A lot of people have started to worry, well, what about how effective are these? How effective are these? Because if you look at the data from the Janssen, which I'd say the same for the AstraZeneca

and the same conversation happened in places or Oxford vaccine, the same conversation happened in places where that was approved, even it still has not been approved in the US. Come on. I, some sorry, did you see some sorry at Denmark, but AstraZeneca blood clots? There was no increased risk. It was what? No, I know.

Yeah. I just wanted to highlight. Yeah, there's been a lot of misinformation out there about the Oxford vaccine like strangely It's been very targeted at that vaccine and I'm trying not to have bias It is the one that is in my that I put in my human body well I didn't put in I let them put in my human body and is currently Still protecting me And I would have no problem like I think they should have it we should have it here too. That's a more vaccines more availability Let's go. But if you try to compare, and this is

something that's really important, if you start looking at the numbers from the Moderna and the Pfizer, and you start looking at the numbers from the AstraZeneca and the Oxford and you look at the numbers from the Janssen, all of this, you'll start to say, well, some are better than others. Like you'll see these charts of percentages and like, well, that one was more protective than others. That is not how you can't do that. That's not science. This is important, Justin.

I need to look at me. Okay, I'm sorry. I was looking at the blood clot story. That was annoying. Okay, but it's fine. I know. Well, don't bring it up. It's misinformation. I was trying to figure out why,

well, how does that get to a point where people are like, we're gonna stop using this vaccine. Like, what, where did that come from? Is it just like a room remembering and then country stop using it? Well, there, that has happened. I mean, not the people stopped using it, but like, yes, that there were concerns with, I mean, we talked about that with infertility in the Pfizer vaccine. Right. Okay. Yes. That was totally fake. Yeah. Anyway, that it does not, none of the vaccines cause infertility. We have no evidence of that whatsoever.

Anyway, so this is really important when you compare efficacy of all these different vaccines, you'll see these percentages. And people are like, well, I want the Pfizer and Moderna because they look better. You can't do that. Here's why. Those percentages were derived from the studies that were done, right?

The Phase III trials that were done, which were done in different places and at different points during the pandemic. You are comparing apples and oranges and bananas and grapes and strawberries. You're not comparing the same things when you look at all these different vaccines. If one of these new variants was circulating, you're going to see different numbers. The Pfizer Moderna trials were done largely before these new variants were circulating. If you look at the Janssen,

a lot of the trials were done in places where there were a lot of the new variants, a lot of the participants got the new variants. The Janssen is Johnson and Johnson. Same thing. Sorry. Sorry. But you can't compare those two. It's not the same thing. Okay. Sorry. Sorry.

But you can't compare those two. It's not the same thing. What you need to know, I'd say the take a message from all these vaccines and that everything that's been approved so far, they look incredibly safe. We have no reason to believe that outside of the initial symptoms that we've talked about that you can have from the immune response you get from the vaccine and the sore arm and whatnot. Outside of those initial things, there are no effects from these vaccines that are negative, that they are not dangerous in any way. Again, we have no reason to think there are any long-term health consequences, because that's not really how vaccines work.

We've talked about this on the show. And all of them are very, very effective at preventing severe COVID disease, which means hospitalization also and death. They are incredibly effective at that, all of them. So that's what we want. They're good, they work. They all are safe and effective.

Whichever one shows up in your hometown, you should get it if you're eligible. If you see any vile, with any one, don't move into your field of year. No, that's not. No. Like I said, there have been some really intriguing studies. There was one out of Israel that on the Pfizer that shows not only are we protecting people who get the vaccine from COVID, but we're decreasing the transmission of COVID because we're seeing fewer and fewer people in general getting it, not just the vaccinated, but we are working towards that herd immunity, which tells us that the vaccines do prevent transmission. And that was the piece that we didn't know in the beginning that

we knew we would learn. And we thought we knew what it would say, but you can't say until you do the study until you look at the data. And that is where we're getting. So that's, I mean, this is all very positive. This is all very heartening. And when it comes to a lot of people, that's about the new variants. That's been the big concern, the new variants. So far, the vaccines still look like they prevent severe disease and death from COVID. Right. Even with these new variants, obviously, we think they might decrease effectiveness somewhat, like they're a little tougher. None of them have been deadlier, just more transmissible.

You can get them more easily. So we're kind of, I mean, part of what we're doing now is racing against them, right? Because- You're trying to get everybody vaccinated, so we can't. Yeah, I mean, part of what we're doing now is racing against them, right? If you're trying to get a very vaccinated, so we can't. Yes. Because if you protect enough people, these new variants don't have time to really get a foothold. And then at that point, we can re-figure. We can re-look back at our vaccines and see, okay, now for the next generation of them,

do we need to make them specifically better against these new variances? Is there something we should do? Do we need a booster? Is it just that simple? We just might need another booster of these. All of this stuff we knew we didn't know going in. We knew we wouldn't have all these answers going in.

We're learning them and adapting as we go. And thank goodness you hear so much about it. And that when you read, every time one of these new variances announced to the public, I guarantee you there were already research scientists and labs all over the country, frantically testing vaccines against it before you heard about it. Like people are responding to this as we go. This is a coordinated global effort. It is changing, but people are on top of it as it changes. One thing I would highly recommend, you've probably heard of Dr. Kismiki a Corbit who worked on the Moderna vaccine, one of the lead immunologist, vaccinologist who worked on the Moderna vaccine.

I would highly recommend you follow her on Twitter at Kizzi PhD. Kizzi Y PhD. She is a great, I love her tweets, like sort of updates as new information comes out, the way that she explains it, and she's a great science communicator, and obviously, an incredible vaccinologist, immunologist, and that has been really helpful for me to like little bits of information that helped me understand what's happening and not freak out when you hear something new. Some other questions specifically that people have asked, one is about they've been using BMI as a way to a sign who gets the vaccine or not, right?

Right. If you're BMI is above a certain level, if you qualify as obesity, then you are higher on the list to get the vaccine because we consider you at higher risk for severe disease from COVID. And I've gotten a lot of questions about how, like, how does that play into the fact that the BMI is not a great measure? Yeah. Which is a great, and I mean, when people suggest we need to do a whole episode on the history of the BMI and why it's not a great measure, you're right. We do. We just haven't done it yet, but

that This is a tough one. We have seen That I mean you'd referenced it to me the other day, Justin that there have been that there is some correlation We don't know causation, but there is correlation between obesity and severe COVID. I'd say that there is a lot of confounders that we would need to tease out of that, but it's enough that it does make us think obesity is a risk factor for severe COVID disease. And so I think based on that concept, putting people higher on the list to get vaccinated, because of obesity, I think that makes sense from a scientific standpoint.

But it doesn't change the fact that BMI is a crap measurement that we should have abandoned a long time ago. It's not a very useful metric for anything other than insurance companies who are trying to decide who can get bariatric surgery or who can have a sleep study or whatever. I'm like, water intake calculators online. Yeah. So I mean, I agree wholeheartedly with everybody who's like, why are we using the BMI?

BMI is stupid. I agree with what you're saying. You're not wrong. But I also don't think it's wrong to consider obesity when you are trying to make a list of who should get a COVID vaccine next. But I think both of those things can exist. But you're right about me and me,

and we should do an episode about it. And we'll eventually. I never want to promise next one because then stuff happens and we do something else and but we should do that. Another question I've gotten a lot about is COVID and painkillers, why can you take time at all

or I be prepping or whatever, you're, you know, over-the-counter painkiller of choices after, but not before. Have you heard that? No. With a vaccine or with COVID? With a vaccine. Got it, okay.

Sorry, I should have clarified. So we have had studies in the past that have suggested that, and the main population where you see this is in the pediatric population, parents will pre-medicate their kids with like Tylenol before they come get their vaccines so that it's easier afterwards, which is not, I mean, it's a good thought. But then there was some concern, are we by giving these medications to someone before a vaccine, are we reducing their immune immune response that they can generate to it and

There was some data that suggested possibly we haven't seen that effect when you take them after you get the vaccine But we have it has been suggested that that could happen before so the recommendation is don't pre-treat before a vaccine But certainly if you have side effects from the vaccine if you you have, you know, soreness or whatever, you can take things after the vaccine. And so I would say that's just a good, that's just a good practice. I don't ever, generally speaking, I just don't recommend pre-treating

because you don't know, sometimes you get a vaccine and you feel like I did after my second Oxford shot. I felt fine. I had no symptoms. I felt fine, but sometimes. But soreness and my sometimes. I had some soreness after the first one. I don't remember if I took, I'd be profan after the first one, but I didn't need anything I have to second one, so. But that's where that comes from. I had one interesting question

that I've seen a lot of in some of my Dr. Mom groups. Can you pass immunity through your breast milk? Yeah. If you get the vaccine and your breastfeeding, does it go? Does it pass through? We don't know is the short answer. Man, people never want to test on little kids. I know. We don't know. A lot of people, I think it's interesting.

I've heard of anecdotally people doing antibody tests on their breast milk to see if there are antibodies to COVID in their breast milk and see if there are antibodies to COVID in their breast milk and they found positive tests which is interesting so that so they're finding evidence that they got the vaccine their body produced antibodies and those antibodies did pass through to the breast milk. I again this is anecdotal but I have seen people who have done this. The next question though is what happens when the baby ingests the breast milk? Did they absorb them into their bloodstream so that they actually have immunity like passive

immunity or do you digest them? We don't know any of that yet. So I don't know. Maybe, I guess, maybe. I would, that would be great. Yeah. I'm still nursing Cooper. So I would love to think that Cooper has gotten a little passive

immunity for me. But the short answer is we just don't know yet. It's theoretically possible. Kids are another big question that not only have, we got an email is about, but you and I have discussed it greatly. We're going to reach a period where all the adults who are eligible for a vaccine should or could have been vaccinated, right? What about kids? They're doing studies. Obviously, at some point, the vaccine will be offered to kids. I don't know how young that will go.

I've seen like down to 12. I've seen some... Is there a point in which the serious reaction to COVID is so low where it becomes like kind of move. Yes, that point that certainly would exist. Like every kid can get it now. Obviously, we vaccinate against the flu. So this isn't a good example, but like we live with diseases that can sometimes have very serious complications for kids that we don't stop the world for.

Like, well, this eventually fall out of that category? Or do you think we'll go for like full, in the MMR style eradication? I know what you're saying. I don't think we can answer that question fully until we understand more about COVID and kids. Early in the- Like some guesses, if it's something you love. Oh well, I mean a lot of people have, I mean, I think we know a lot more

than we did in the beginning because right in the beginning they said said kids don't get it and kids don't, and even when they do, they don't get it bad. That was like the whole thing. And actually, their blood cares it. So kids are immune from COVID period. And then as we've evolved with our understanding of COVID, we go, well, no, kids do get it. Maybe there is a threshold, an age threshold where transmission is less likely, but they still can get it. And absolutely, they can give it to each other, they can give it to adults. We know that now.

Whereas, and I don't, well, I won't get into that. That was called into question in the beginning. We know that now. We still think, obviously, kids are not as likely to get severe COVID, right? Like, that's still true. We don't think there's likely. But how unlikely are they? And are there long-term consequences for getting mild or moderate COVID for kids?

We know that there can be for adults, which will lead me into our next thing. So like, if our kids are getting mild or moderate disease, well, that's great. They didn't, maybe they never got hospitalized. They never really had to, maybe they just missed some school and then they're fine. That's great. But is there some sort of long term thing that could result from that? Because if there is, then that's just a serious. Yeah. We just don't know all that yet. We think it's not as bad for kids still. I don't think as a parent, that's not enough for me. No, right. We're it's not as bad for kids still. I don't think I as a parent that's not enough for me. No, right. We're not kicking in a great wolf lodge or anything. No,

which is going to leave us into lead us into this world where adults are safe. Generally, kids are not generally. What do we do? I mean, I hope that they rush these try. I mean, I know, you know what I mean, I hope they start these trials, I don't mean rush them, I hope they start them soon. I know there are already some trials down to 12. I have read that they're going to start trials down to six months, which, again, I've said it on the show before,

if I can find a trial that I can get my kids into, I would in a heartbeat. Keep a lookout, listen, if you do anything as we anything, I would. Because at the end of the day, I'd prefer my kids didn't get COVID. I know that it is not as risky as someone who's older or who has other chronic medical conditions getting COVID, but I still would prefer they didn't. So I think I think there's still a lot of gray area here, and it's going to be a lot of people deciding what their personal comfort level is as we move forward with allowing kids into the world. Not so much. I think we're answering the question as to like you and I are vaccinated parents going out into the world

and coming back to our children. I think we're learning is not dangerous. I mean, we're still washing our hands and everything and I still strip down when I come back from doing medical stuff. But when we can let them go out into the world regularly, I still think that's gonna be a big, giant question mark. It'll be a while before you can safely take the masks off, I would say. Yeah. And that leads us into long COVID.

Which I thought I would end with because one, so many people have asked us to do an episode, I can't in good faith do an episode on long COVID because we don't know enough yet. We are in the middle of learning about this. I could tell you general ideas of our understanding. I understand why it's so far. What you mean by long COVID? By long COVID, people who have had COVID recovered from the acute disease, but still continue to suffer from either occasional or even persistent symptoms. So not necessarily the fivers or cough, but everything from like fatigue to headaches, to

brain fog, to all kinds of things that have resulted since they had and recovered from the acute illness, COVID-19. I don't know. I mean, that's the short answer. There are clinics that have been designed, that have been like built, not physically built, you know what I mean? Experts have been brought together to create long COVID clinics around the US. There aren't many. And I'm sure that that exists outside the US to try to study this and understand what is happening what are we looking at and how can we best treat manage, you know, maybe cure. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what we're talking about yet. I am concerned about people like

Winifio Paltrow taking advantage of this vacuum of knowledge. This is what I'm saying. That is what because we don't understand fully what's happening. But we know something is happening because I can attest to this, again, this is anecdotal, but I can attest to the fact that the last time I was running our inpatient service, we were frequently readmitting people who had COVID, got better, and then something else has happened. This is not uncommon right now. So this is not something that just goes away in two weeks. For some people, I mean, yes, of course others it does. But there is something that we're not, and we still don't understand it, we still don't know what's happening inside your body that's

causing all this, and we don't know how best to address it. There are very smart doctors, scientists studying this all over the country. And I do think we will understand this entity better with time. But right now, we don't have like hard, fast do this, do this, do this, you'll get better, no problem. If anybody's telling you they completely understand it and they have all the answers for you and also they can sell it for you. Or the doctors are ignoring you and not taking it seriously. Yeah, no, we just don't understand it yet.

Now your doctor shouldn't ignore you. They should take you seriously. They should listen to all your symptoms. And there are these clinics throughout the country to study this. But we just don't have answers yet. We're still in this like. But this sort of thing that this atmosphere

like not knowing is just really fertile ground for charlatans. I mean, that's how hydroxychloroquine became such a thing, right? Because you had so many people online, echoing back to each other that the doctors won't give it to you, but it is. I've heard that from so many people who never had COVID, who never knew, they didn't even necessarily know anybody who had COVID, but they knew that doctors were keeping hydroxychloroquine from people, even though it saved lives.

And that obviously wasn't true. So I do think that, yes, that, that point is is very worthy to make and this is a perfect example of that I guess unfortunately for for Gwyneth Paltrow because I don't want anybody to get sick or suffer She has she is a long covid suffer She had covid got better, but then says she continues to have Brain fog and fatigue and trouble concentrating, I think, or the symptoms she said she had, things like that. Anyway, she has consulted with someone

to help her address it and is now on some sort of specific diet for it. is now on some sort of specific diet for it. Takes a lot of vitamins, uses a detoxifying powder, and then also has recommended things like a specific pair of shoes that she uses for hiking because exercise is so important. And then there's a necklace that you can wear. I think while you're hiking, there's like an infrared sauna blanket. There's a serum. There's an acipia.

These things are very expensive too. I should know. Like everything, there's a price tag that comes with all these things and she's promoting them and I'm sure selling some of these things Through goop Can't be an America baby America is back. We're back can't be an America can't stop won't stop I that's that concerns me because I if all these things work for Grant Gwyneth Paltrow and Goodness knows she has the means to afford them,

then they work. Well, no, then that's fine for her. If that is how she is, we've talked about, there's no such thing as a detox fine powder. You don't need to detox your body, your liver and kidneys do that for you. But if that is how she chooses to spend her hard earned dollars and she feels better, I'm not going to come to her house and tell her to stop, but it does frustrate me that she's telling everybody else that she's cracked it and just do what she does.

And then you too can be better, but I mean it costs, I mean all together this stuff is going to be thousands of dollars. And I think that's very frustrating and you're going to see a lot of that. You're going to see a lot of people who are going to tell you, oh, I know the doctors say they don't understand it, but I do, and here's the solution, and also it's gonna cost you. And that is what worries me right now,

is that is where we're in that space. I think that unfortunately, we have to be satisfied as we have for the whole past year, knowing that we don't know some things. We will. We will always. We know so much more than we did a year. Look at this show versus one a year ago.

We know so much more. We will understand long COVID and we will understand how to address the symptoms more effectively and how to help people who are suffering from it. We will understand those things. I know how to make a bunk bed now. We do know that a year ago. Yes.

That's episode, all those call right there. That's episode we're done with COVID mission accomplished. We're moving, I'm rolling a banner. It says mission accomplished. We're moving in the right direction now. Things will fool hardy to me, Sam, but we're going to hear the doctor. That is the difference between a year ago and now.

A year ago, we were moving in the wrong direction, and now we're moving in the right direction. Let's just keep going there. Thank you so much for listening. We have a book, it's called The Salmon's Book. It's in paperback and hardback, you can go get it right now. And thanks to the taxpayers for these,

there's some medicines as the intro and outro program. Thanks to you for listening. That's going to do it for us for this week. So until next time, my name is Justin McRoy. I'm Cindy McRoy. And it's always don't drill a hole in your head. Alright!