Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - COVID Vaccine Questions and Answers

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

Vaccines are here! Vaccines are here! But wait ... aren't they ... rushed? Did you hear they might be ... tainted? Do they give you ... cheetah powers? Even if you believe in vaccines, it's normal to have some questions about them. So this week we'll be providing you with all the answers we have to your pressing queries.Pre-order The Sawbones Book paperback!Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Sawbones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We were sawed through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines that escalate my cop for the mouth. Wow. Hello everybody and welcome to Sobhones and Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine. I am your co-host Justin McAroy. And I'm Sydney McAroy. Justin, usually when we do question and answer episodes. Q&A in Paralolce of the Beasons. Oh, well, okay, excuse me.

Q&A. Q&A. Q&A? Q&A. bees. Oh, well, okay, excuse me. Q and A. Q and A. Q and A? Q and on. No. No, sorry. Not here. Not here.

Usually when we do those episodes, I request questions ahead of time, right? Right. We'll like, tweak that out there and specify that we're looking for your questions. This time, this episode, as we like to say in the artistic world, arose organically from our listeners organically. In the biz, we call that rising organically.

Yeah, I say my mom's, I hear my mom say that a lot when she's directing community theater. Did it arose organically? Organically. Yeah, just let it just let it happen organically. That means she didn't come up with anything at the time. Did it arose organically organically? Yeah, just let it just let it happen organically. That means she didn't come up with anything at the time. I've used that line as a directive too.

Let's just see where this movement organically goes. Let's just watch this dance organically evolve. So anyway, this happened because a lot of you have been sending me questions related to the COVID vaccine. I didn't ask for them, but I'm very grateful that you sent them. who have been sending me questions related to the COVID vaccine. I didn't ask for them, but I'm very grateful that you sent them. It was a good idea. For that reason, usually when we read your questions,

we name all of our question askers, but since I didn't specifically request your questions, well, I'd left out names. Because they may not, it may not have been for public consumption. Exactly. I assume unless you tell me otherwise, I assume you don't want me to read your your name on air. Yeah. So that's a maybe that's a good thing to note for the

future. Yeah. Like if you're cool with it, mention it because or if we ask for your questions, but otherwise I don't. So anyway, I have collected all the questions that we've been sent because as you probably know, if you've ever listened to a single episode of the show, Justin and I are big fans of vaccines. Oh, we're wild about the things. Have you guys tried these vaccines? We love vaccines. And if you've listened to our recent episodes, you may know that we are both in the AstraZeneca vaccine trial.

So that's how much we love vaccines. We are part of science in the making. Can you say, by the way? I mean, yeah. Yeah, so well, that gets to one of the questions, actually. Okay. There's a whole question about it that I will use to update you on how that tries.

Okay. So I'll give you the updates. But I want to launch right in with these questions because there were a lot and they're the same questions that I'm seeing echoed from family, from friends, from like people on social media, just that I know casually are asking these same things from patients too. So first of all, could you discuss what the possible consequences there might be to a pregnant person or the developing human in utero choosing to get the vaccine? Why isn't their data collected for pregnant people, similarly, school-aged children?

So there were a lot of questions about this, actually. I kind of just, I put them all together here. Why wasn't it tested? The one that's out right now is the Pfizer. By the time this airs Moderna will either be approved or about to be approved, so it will be close to being out there. Why do we not know if they're okay for pregnant people?

I would say this is a problem in medical research in general. We tend to not test things in pregnant or breastfeeding patients just because of liability risk, that kind of thing. It's tough, we've talked about this in medications, I think, where nobody wants to be the guinea pig with their fetus. They're the guinea fetus, if they will. Well, you know, though, I think

what I have learned, especially from watching people get this vaccine, especially a lot of the healthcare workers who are getting the vaccine first, who might happen to be pregnant, it's not really so much reluctance on the part of the patients or the subjects. I think it's reluctance on the part of the researchers to embark on that research because of the risk or liability.

I have observed lots of pregnant people getting vaccinated right now with these vaccines. The official stance is that since we didn't test them in pregnant people or breastfeeding people or school-aged children for that matter, since we didn't do those tests, we can't say that they're safe. We're not saying they're not safe. We just don't know. We didn't do it. But unlike some drugs where when we don't know, we say it's contraindicated, meaning so don't do it. What they're saying for pregnant and breastfeeding people, not school-aged children, but pregnant and breastfeeding people, is you should have a conversation

with your healthcare professional and make the right decision for you. The reason is that theoretically, there's no risk. Okay. It's not a live virus vaccine. The Pfizer is not, the Moderna, which is coming is not. So based on that knowledge of what the vaccine is and how it works, it should not be dangerous. Now we didn't do the studies to prove it, but they're leaving it up to the patient to

decide if they want to. As far as like what risk there could be to the fetus, I don't even have a theoretical risk to give you. You can't get COVID from the vaccines, so that's not a risk. And the mRNA in the vaccine, and I'll get into this a little more in-depth, it doesn't enter the nucleus of your cell. So that's one big one, big fear is like,

well, what if it gets an up all up in my DNA and I don't know, turns me into a virus or whatever? Cheetah powers. What if it's like, I've seen so many images it gets an up all up in my DNA and I don't know, turns me into a virus or whatever. Cheetah, Cheetah powers. What if it's like, I've seen so many images of Jeff Goldbloom from the fly in this discussion. It doesn't get into the nucleus of your cell where your DNA is stored. It doesn't do that. So it can't.

So it can't do that to you or a developing fetus. What if your fetus is a dumb dumb tinfoil had our anti-vaxer that you've taken the choice out of there. Yeah, I got another for you So I have seen many pregnant people taking the vaccine. I have seen breastfeeding people take the vaccine I I have said this I think on the show full disclosure. I am still Nursing our youngest and I Participated in the vaccine trial

for the AstraZeneca vaccine. So obviously it was a risk that I felt was, say, I felt like it was worth taking, that it was safe. But it is a personal choice. But it is a problem in medical research in general. We don't check enough stuff in pregnant people. Another question was, I was thinking about, as news of the vaccine continues to roll in,

is, will I ever be in a situation where I need to decide which one to get? And how would I pick? I can't fathom that at least for the foreseeable future that's going to be an issue. The way that they're sort of rolling out the vaccines, they're very targeted like, I know locally, the first health system to get it got the Pfizer and some of our docs who go back and forth between different hospitals are actually on the list for next week when the other hospital system gets, like the VA system gets them a DERNA, assuming that all goes well.

So I don't think, at least for a while, it's going to be an option. I think you're just going to be offered one of them. If you were offered one, I really don't know how you would at this point, I don't have a preference. There's probably a quiz online. You could take a Buzzfeed quiz. What is some of your favorite flavors? Are you someone are you staying at home in cozy PJs? Or are you going out clubbing? Maybe you're an Astrosinica person. No, I'll be honest. I had been following the Moderna from the beginning

of this whole thing just because I thought it was cool. Because I'm a nerd. I have no other reason. I was gonna let you say why it's cool, but if you want to do something. Well, it was the mRNA thing, but the Pfizer is too. I just thought it was, I don't know. It doesn't matter. Take whatever one you can ever whatever

syringe hoves into your reach first I cannot think of a reason why you would choose one over the other just take whatever you can get someone sent me a big giant sort of anti-vax missive that they saw on their social media feed and sort and just want to make a kind of respond to it because and I think I'm responding to pieces of it not the whole thing because it veered into the um political realm yeah and I I mean I'm not going to talk I'm a scientist I'm not going to talk about that we've never talked as despite what uh several disgruntled former listeners have emailed us to say, we have never talked about politics on sovans and we never will. No, well, it's not that. It's like some of the

some of the arguments against it were like the gates paid for it. And like, I'm not... Hey, I'm not gonna... Real quick. Actually, can I touch on that for one? Oh, do you want to? Yeah, can I actually touch on that really quick? Just want everybody to know, and this would be a great thing. If you hear like, say, Tucker Carlson or anybody else on the Fox News or other properties like that, trying to sow seeds of doubt about the COVID vaccine, please know that Rupert Murr not got it this morning in the year of our Lord 2020, December 18th. That was reported. Maybe he got it yesterday, but yeah. Rupert Murdock got it. So, okay, moving on. Mike Pence got it. Mike Pence got it. Yeah. So, I mean, whatever. Not at least you are role models for you in your day

of day life, but if somebody tries to step, maybe mention that. I also, if people want to start throwing at you, like, well, Bill Gates paid for it, which I don't care. I mean, his money spends. Dolly Parton helped pay for the Moderna vaccine. It creeps. So you got a problem with Dolly? I don't think so. Don't think you do.

Nobody does. I don't want to go in. I mean, like, those are, I want to focus on the science problems. So this person who says their doctor starts off by saying that mRNA vaccine technology is completely new and they say we have no idea if it will be effective or safe. Okay, this is easily debunked. We know it's effective because they did the trials that showed it was effective. You can read these papers, they've

been published for everyone to read if you if you want to read the Pfizer data, if you want to read the Moderna data, if you want to read the early preliminary AstraZeneca data, it's out there. You can read it. They did the trials. They know it's effective. They know it's safe. They did the studies to prove it. So that's just I don't I don't I mean, this is just plain off fear. A lot of people have asked the question, why did they do something with new technology? When we have established vaccine technology, why would you go with mRNA technology? And I just kind of plays into this issue. Why did we? Well, first of all, it's new in the sense that this is the first vaccine that people have

gotten using this technology, but our ability to do this is not new. We've known how to make an mRNA vaccine for quite a while. We just hadn't had the opportunity to showcase it. The pandemic is that opportunity, because mRNA vaccines, as we've talked about on the show before, you can make so much faster. You can reliably make mRNA for commercial production really fast. So it was the perfect vehicle for a vaccine that was necessary and as fast as you could safely do it, to save lives.

That's why. We know how to do it. We know how to do it for a while. So we did it. It just bothers me. It's like, well, why did we decide to go to the moon? That seems dangerous. The next point they make is that because it's an mRNA vaccine, it could sneak into our DNA

and change us into flies or whatever, as I've said. It's impossible. It doesn't get into our nucleus. It does not incorporate into your DNA. It makes this spike protein, which is completely harmless, and then the mRNA is degraded by your body. So the messenger, the mRNA is packaged in a little circle of lipids, right? These little teeny lipid nanoparticles that make a lot of fear, and they circle the piece of mRNA, and it gets into your cell, not into the nucleus. And then there are ribosomes which translate the mRNA into proteins. It makes the spike protein out of the mRNA and then once it's done with the instructions, it does what you do with instructions when you're done with them.

They're moist. Throws it away. They're gone. And then you got these harmless spike proteins. So, I mean, unless it's for a part of what I say those because I might need to re-refer- You say I'm going to draw a while your body doesn't do that. It throws away the, unless it's for a part of all that I save those because I might need to re-refer- Same. Well, your body doesn't do that. It throws away the mRNA. It's done with it. And then those proteins teach your body how to fight off COVID.

That's it. It's not going to turn you into a fly. It just doesn't. Shame. These new vaccines contain form out of height and aluminum and mercury. No, they don't read the ingredients. They're available widely online. They just, no they don't read the ingredients. They're available widely online. They just, they just don't.

And even when they have been found in trace amounts in vaccines, it's less than what you would get when you like eat fish. So it's still fine, but they don't. Since viruses mutate frequently, the chance of the vaccine working for more than years unlikely. Nope. As we've said before, many times about the coronavirus, not just me, but anybody who talks about it, this one doesn't mutate very frequently to the scent that a vaccine wouldn't work. It mutates a little and the vaccine still

work. There's no reason to think the vaccines won't continue to work for a while. We don't know how long yet, right? Which is why Justin and I are in this study for two years. Right. But yes, they will continue to work. No long term safety studies. Well, okay, the pandemic started in this country in March. I depend on how you want to late February. I don't know. We got worked up about it in March. So of course, we can't have longer term studies on the vaccines than they've existed. Yes, that is fair. But we know from all the vaccines we've ever made, that you're most likely, if you're gonna have

any sort of problem or reaction to a vaccine, you're most likely to have it in the first, usually six weeks, but at least by the first two months. It is incredibly rare that anyone has any problem that could even possibly be related to a vaccine longer than two months out. That's why those two month markers were set for the FDA. That's why they said after patients have gotten their second dose and two months have elapsed, we look at all the safety data and make a decision. That's why that was

set because it's just almost impossible that anything will happen past that. I'm not saying nothing has ever happened in the history of mankind. I'm saying like that is an accepted role. Okay. And then I don't know. Then there was a bunch of lies about how COVID is not a big deal and not that many people are dying in the pandemic is over anyway. Okay, I'll we could untrue. I just got off the phone with a friend and she said she was likely not getting the vaccine because of long-term side effects. Have there been vaccines in the past that have long-term side effects? I think we just kind of we kind of covered that. No, most happen very soon. There are a lot of anti-vaxxers saying they're not going to get vaccinated because it's not going to stop the spread. I've read online that they're not sure if the vaccine will stop the spread or not.

Like it would help you not get that sick, but you could still spread it basically. Right. So, okay. First of all, I think it's still, I would argue that even if that was the case, it's still worth it to get the vaccine. It's not Diave COVID. Because then you won't like have to be hospitalized or Diave COVID. So that, I mean, that's still a good reason in my mind. We don't know for sure. They didn't routinely in the Pfizer and Moderna trials check for asymptomatic infections. So there is this thought, could you get vaccinated and still carry the virus and give it to someone else but not know because you never got sick?

Right. We just don't have enough data to know for sure yet. It's gonna take more time before we know that. The AstraZeneca trial actually did check for asymptomatic infections and did show that it was good at reducing the spread. So there you go. There is there is some data there and I'm not saying that's not true for Pfizer or Moderna. I'm just saying it again. It's an area where we just don't have the data. Yeah, similar to pregnant people. We just don't have

the data, but the fewer people who are hospitalized with COVID and die of COVID, the better. For everybody. Yes. Think about it. And for our hospitals that are overwhelmed. Yep. So, which they really are, by the way, can make that up. Yes.

Yes. That's the statistic. It's just awful. There are people being admitted to tents and parking lots. In the United States of America, there are people being admitted to tents in parking lots. In the United States of America, there are people being admitted to hospitals that are the tents in the parking lot of hospitals because the hospitals are full.

So that is a true fact. There is a question, and there were many questions about this because of the concern about severe allergies with the Pfizer vaccine, because there were a few patients who had an allergic response to the vaccine. And then there was a follow-up question with that about like autoimmune diseases. And basically, could you trigger, you know, should people with allergies not get them or

somebody with an autoimmune disease like celiac disease, should we not get it because it could trigger some sort of autoimmune reaction? The concern with immunocompromised patients and vaccines is really the worries that they won't work. Oh. If your immune system has trouble responding to viruses and bacteria in the wild. Then it may have trouble building the response based on the vaccine. Exactly. And this is for people who are on immunosuppressants or people who have other, you know, compromised immune systems for other reasons. So that is really the concern

is that it just won't be very helpful in these vaccines. If it was a live virus vaccine, we would have other concerns, but they're not. So that's not relevant to this conversation. In terms of triggering some sort of autoimmune disease, there's really just no, this has been studied. And so far, there's never been any evidence that that happens. You're actually way more likely to trigger an autoimmune reaction by getting a virus than you are by getting the vaccine to the virus. The best example of this is Guillain-Barré syndrome and the flu. While there was a slightly higher increase of cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome after the

76, 77 swine flu vaccine, I mean, 76, just in that one year, since then there hasn't been. And now, statistically, you're more likely to get Guillain-Barré syndrome after having the flu than you are after having the flu vaccine. Yeah. So, I don't know if that helps, but that is generally the accepted thought right now. I get what you're saying. There's some argument you could make, a theoretical argument for why this might happen after a vaccine, but so far, the evidence is not bearing out that it's a threat. Okay.

That's good enough for me. And the recommendation here is that if you do have severe allergies to the extent that you have anaphylaxis and have to carry an api pen, you may want to, like, I think in the UK, it was you may consider not getting the Pfizer vaccine. Here the CDC recommendation is you have it in a healthcare facility, like have it somewhere where there are people watching. People watching. Yeah, who can watch you for 30 minutes after the vaccine?

Okay. And obviously, if you're supposed to carry an FEPM with you at all times, please carry that. Yeah, have that with you. Yeah. Um, I've got a few more questions, Justin, but before we do that. Wait, but I have all these questions.

I know. What am I supposed to do? This huge stack of questions. Save them for after the billing department. Let's go. Okay, okay, I've still got them, but I'm running out of time, Sidney. I need to start addressing these concerns. Questions. I'll try to move a little quicker I okay that big anti-vax misive those always just Good way keep sitting you busy if you ever need to get some Work around the house done or you want to go Christopher shopping for or something just make us a cardboard cut out of yourself

And ask her about some anti-vax probably in the More about Dawson the Greek they both work. That's true. That fair. Since getting COVID doesn't mean you can't get it again, how does the vaccine work? This is a fair question because I have had a lot of people ask that question, well, but we think maybe the immunity isn't forever. That's a lot of stuff though, right? I mean, you have to get boosters of your tetanus shot

every 10 years or something. So basically your immune system is induced the same way, whether we're talking about a natural infection, a wild infection, or a vaccine, right? We're still enrolling your macrophage is gonna grab a hold of these spike proteins that are made, you know, the mRNA is gonna go in there,

you're gonna make some spike proteins, macrophage is gonna grab a hold of it and go, hey, look at this thing I found. And then your T cells are going to come over and be like, this is bad. This is an intruder. And then your B cells are going to be like, I'll remember that guy for the rest of my freaking life

and making antibodies. But then they die. And you got to get another one. But sometimes they forget. Sometimes they do forget over time. And you got to get a one. But sometimes they forget, sometimes they do forget over time and you got to get a booster. Guys never forget. Just like with natural immunity, sometimes your body forgets over time and you got to get a booster.

Which is better in the vaccine sense than it is in reinfection sense. This is why again, these studies are ongoing. Even though there was enough data collected to say, this is a safe, effective vaccine, let's get it out to the people, we will be in these studies for years so that they can say, and they're gonna be checking our antibodies so that at some point they can say,

you know what, either great, you're still immune or people's immunity might be waning, and then they will set a vaccine schedule. That's the reason, we have all these vaccine schedules where we know how often you need boosters, like when you're a kid and stuff and throughout your life, like the tetanus shot every 10 years and all that. The reason we have those is because we did really long-term studies and check people's antibodies for many, many, many, many years. We'll do this. We'll figure this out and we can handle it. We don't know yet, but it's okay.

We know this vaccine will work now and that's the important thing. There is a social media post, I've seen many people ask this question that states that the COVID-19 vaccine could inhibit fertility, specifically the Pfizer, but you know, it's introducing this idea for all of the COVID vaccines. So where did this come from? It took me a minute to trace where this came from, but there was a former Pfizer executive and it seems like someone who's kind of skeptical of the pandemic to begin with that is sort of where they come from in their world view, who declared, he's already also said,

by the way, that it was effectively over in November that the pandemic's over, so that's really. Are we wasting our time on it? He said that since the spike protein that the vaccine triggers your body to make is similar to a protein on the placenta that will train our bodies to attack placentas. Oh, wow, that's scary.

It will render us infernal. The problem with that is that that's not true. The two proteins are not. That's the only problem though. Yeah, the two proteins are not alike. There is no possibility that by teaching us to attack the coronavirus when it comes into our bodies, we will be teaching our bodies to attack the placenta. This is a lie, lie, lie, lie.

But other than that, what's the problem with it? Well, it's a lie. It's so it's not true. There is no, and they have seen absolute, and they also did all these trials, and they have seen no evidence that it affects fertility in any way. So please tell people it is not true. Please, this is totally untrue. Another allergy question, someone who has lots of food allergies, has anaphylaxis to some

things, and also is immunosuppressed, is concerned about getting the vaccine. First of all, they also asked, well, the other vaccines pose a threat. There's no reason to assume that just because someone had an allergic reaction to the Pfizer that they would to a different vaccine. There's no reason to assume that. They've actually said that they're not necessarily seen that as an increased risk factor. You just accept some people are going to be allergic to some things. That's just going to happen. Again, if you carry an epipin with you and you decide to get

these vaccines, please carry your epipin with you there too. I thought I'd make them do it, right? Don't use your epipin. It's expensive. They back on the hospital. I would still have it with me. If I tell a patient that I'm always carrying an epipin, I don't mean like, except not sometimes. I mean, like just carry it. Except like, but get big cargo pants. So you can hide your EpiPin and try a little bit, just be like, oh no, I thought it's in one of these pants.

You guys, we've got to have one. I mean, everybody's got to make the decision that's best for them, but if it, well, make the decision that's best for you. Yeah. But again, I don't know. I was a joke. best for them, but if it, well, make the decision that's best for you. But again, I don't know. I was a joke. It was just kidding.

Don't tweet at me, please. I know. It's a joke. I just kidding. Right. Bring your opinion. Please bring your opinion. If someone has told you to carry an epipan with you at all times, carry an epipan

with you all. All times, he's all times folks. Yes, exactly. So there's someone else who says that they were in a study and this is what I wanted to get to. They were in the Jansen study. And the question is that can I say just I don't I think all of vaccine to great. That sounds a little generic brand.

That sounds like a little generic to me. The Jansen study Jansen. More Johnson. Yeah, it just feels like kind of then the chance. Is it Janssen vaccine? It just feels like great value. We know we need all vaccine. Yeah, but this one just feels a little bit like, you know, when you have to tell the other kids that BK on your shoes doesn't say I'm for British nights, it's hands for Burger King.

Like that just feels Jans. That one, I'm not crazy about. I think I know I think if I was giving the option of not getting the vaccine or getting the Jansen, I'd have to have a good thing about it. As a scientist who had like a huge crash on this mRNA technology, um, I felt that way a little bit not getting either of them or any vaccines. Okay. Well, you see where I'm coming from. You just because of the many.

It's not better. It's just cool. Anyway. So what this person is asking is. I'm kidding. Also, God, your vaccine is great. Thank you for being a vaccine. Janssen, I'm sure it's great.

I love their class. I love their classroom. I hope that we have established that we love vaccines and we're all for vaccines and you're joking. I just really liked the idea of one of the things I predicted when everybody was rushing in was that people would start, I think I thought Jordan Morris talking about it

on Facebook, like I really wanted people to be like, oh, that's cool that you got Pfizer, but like I kind of held out from red herna. It's just got like a smoother finish. It's really, I hear it's like a little bit more ethically sourced and that's kind of held out from redderna. It just got like a smoother finish. And it's really, I hear it's like a little bit more ethically sourced and that's kind of my, but like any var, any more gray, but I just really, I really love my personal vaccine

that I got. I will not lie. I had a moment because I have been for whatever reason. I had, I had an affinity for the Moderna. I had kind of wanted it. But I, you know what? I'm happy to be vaccinated, so I don't care. Which is the answer to this question, by the way, I'm giving that away already. So this person was saying, what do I do when the real vaccine becomes available, you know,

in another from another maker, when, and asking me specifically, what are you going to do? So a lot of the vaccine manufacturers have already come out and said that this is their plan. So if you are in a trial, I would contact your investigator to ask the question. But basically, I was in Justin and I are both in the AstraZeneca trial. I received something and then I got an email from my job

last week that said, do you want the vaccine, the Pfizer vaccine, when we get it, we're going to get it next week. And we need everybody's name on a list. We need your phone number. And when we call you to come get the vaccine, you got to get your butt down here and get the vaccine because somebody else is going to get it. If you don't get it, and we only got so many. So, and I, my thought was one, well, I don't want to take a Pfizer vaccine if I've already gotten the AstraZeneca vaccine Speak for yourself if there was 70% effective. You're a hundred and forty percent against COVID, maybe No, I didn't want to do that

One because I didn't I mean like we don't really know what that would do And that one they will know. I want to not advise that was not been studying my science mind says it's probably fine But like probably fine is not how science works either So I don't know what it would do and secondly, I don't want to take another vaccine. There is a shortage I'm not going to take two That's bad Even Rupert Murkock didn't take two so the instructions are if you are Emmanently to receive a vaccine and not just because you want to know like Justin didn't do this because we don't know when Justin would be offered a vaccine otherwise.

Not only the house, he's not a priority for whatever reason. And you do love her, my dear. He's not a priority. So because I am a priority, I contacted my investigator, they unblinded me so that I could make a decision. With science. Yes. And I did receive, as I suspected, the real vaccine, just because I did have some very minor intolerable but symptoms that made me think it was the real deal.

And as far as we know, it's like effective now after two weeks, you said I'd go back and get your second shot. Yeah, I got to get my booster the day after Christmas. And two weeks after that is when officially, officially, it will be working in my body. The data suggests that probably with the AstraZeneca, after the first, you, you do have some pretty decent immunity after two weeks. But we don't take chances with COVID. So two weeks after Christmas, I will officially be immune from the AstraZeneca vaccine. So that's very, I'm very grateful and I'm very excited and I'm very

happy that I'm participating in the trial. And if you were in a trial and you are offered a vaccine outside the trial, I would contact your site investigator because I know a lot of a lot of the manufacturers are offering the same thing for ethical reasons. And also if you, so that's also a good tip to you listeners. If you start to hear Sydney get a little bit more lax about COVID protocols in the next few months, sort of like, I don't know, do what you want. You don't want to miss your sister's graduation,

et cetera, et cetera. You'll know it's because she's one of the, as I've reminded her many, many times, among the privileged few, currently enjoying some level of immunity for novel coronavirus. I know how privileged I am. And that actually leads me to a question.

As a white man, I'm just glad to have someone around me that has privileged that I don't for once. You know, can I just enjoy being able to check someone? You just don't know. Okay, well, that's still your privilege. Okay. Well, that leads me to a question. Somebody said, you know, this vaccine rollout is going to be a slow process. What will be the protocol in terms

of like masks, social distancing, et cetera. Nothing changes. Nothing has changed for me. And nothing should change for anybody who gets the vaccine. You're still wearing masks because of this issue that we don't know how that we don't know if they're good at preventing transmission of the virus yet or not. Also, there's bad actors who lie about it. I mean, there's the other fact. You're still distancing, you're still making decisions to like, don't gather in groups.

All the things that you're doing should stay the same for now. You really can't change that. I know that sucks. I know that's hard to hear, but I'm not changing. And I haven't, I'm, even though I've gotten this information two weeks after Christmas, I'm not hitting a bar. I'm not going out.

I'm not doing anything differently. It's just nice to know when I go work in the hospital next time. You would, you may go back and start volunteering at the home at a harmony house again, right? Yeah. That actually is one thing. Still wearing masks, still doing my best to protect myself, but I do feel like I'll be able to serve my community a little better now, knowing that I have this.

But I do not change your behavior at this time. I guess that's why you're a priority. I gotta do something in the community. Somebody asked, and this was funny, I've seen this question asked from a lot of the doctors that I work with. We've talked so much about how cold you need to keep the hyzer vaccine and the Moderna, but the Pfizer much about how cold you need to keep the hyzer vaccine

and the Moderna, but the Pfizer especially, how cold you have to keep it to transport it and stuff. And they asked, could it freeze my muscle, the injection site? You thought and bring it up to room temperature before you administer it. How are they gonna eat? They might use dipendots, freezers.

I know. Did you see that? Yes. Riley was bragging about it because she likes dipendots and I cannot stand them. And then dip and dots responded to her and I felt embarrassed because you had been dunking on the product. You know, it's still my brands and the sounds all sitting. Anyway, uh, no, they bring it up to, but which is also why like if you're going to get it, go get it and like sign up and go for it because when they

thought they don't, they have a window in which they have to administer it and you can't refreeze it. They'll just jab it and whoever walks past. There's probably somebody waiting for it. Someone also asked, given our experience, would we include our children in the next round of vaccine trials if they were for kids? In a heartbeat. Yes, I would. I believe in all in this technology, whether it's the Pfizer, the Moderna, the AstraZeneca, the Janssen. I believe in all in this technology whether it's the Pfizer the Moderna the AstraZeneca the Jansen

I believe in the technology I Believe in all of it. I I've read the studies the preliminary data the data that's come out for the ones that have been released I I Trust it. I have faith in it. Yes Yes, because then also if as soon as When my daughter is vaccinated, she can go back to school and see other kids and not sort of be in our

House she misses children. She misses other kids. Yeah, Mark. I miss the Mandalorian I need my child to be out of the house. They're becoming feral just being around us all the time They need other children, so yes, I trust it. I would. Yes, I would. Her teachers are doing a great job, by the way. Yes. Our 12 teachers are missad kids miss. I don't think I don't know how they're the most anonymous last names Charlie teachers. So I don't think I've added you, but you're doing a great job. Yeah, I don't know if they listen to our show, but if they do, we I've been so impressed with being able to like, corral, there's like 20 kids on a Zoom call. I can't get my brother's to behave

at least to gender. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. But teachers were already super here. I was going to know you're, I don't know, but I know that, um, that Charlie would very much like to hug her teacher. And so I am hoping that yes, I would have enrolled them in a vaccine trial and heartbeat. Oh yeah. And just a couple more questions. I'm not kidding, hate shots. So it would be a whole thing.

No, she has turned on this one. That's how much you know she wants to get out of this house. She told me that she's ready for it. She wants it. Somebody wants to get a great little watch. Yes, me that she's ready for it. She wants it. Somebody wants to get a great little watch. Yes. She knows it's a needle and she's okay with that because she so wants to leave the house. Someone said, I'm not into a vaccine.

I'm just confused. They're saying the vaccines have 90-ish percent effectiveness. How are they coming up with this? Are they giving people the vaccine and they're giving them the virus? How do you figure this out? Can I try? Because I think I know this. It's the, this is why there are policy buzz, right?

Because that gives you a control for people who are living their lives in their normal fashion, taking what precautions they would, and you compare those two groups and see who got COVID in that time period. And that's your, that's a big reason for the policy buzz. Exactly. You need, you need a standardized. And that's your, that's a big reason for the placebo seabass. Exactly. You need a standardized control group that has been randomized to sort of mirror the study

arm to make sure that the vaccine is working by comparing those two groups. You couldn't just compare them to like the country at us a whole or that state or whatever. You really need to set group to compare numbers to. Right. And also a group that you're monitoring and you know their they're daily habits and you know how likely they are to get covered in the first place, right? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You can just pick random people. You want the two groups to be

similar. I mean, it's going to be hard. The same kind of people, I think they've talked about this. The same kind of people who are enrolling in vaccine trials right now, you would start to ask this question. And again, this is conjecture. I don't have evidence to say this, but like enough, I mean, enough people have asked it that I think it's fair to ask this question. And again, this is conjecture, I don't have evidence to say this, but like enough, I mean, enough people have asked it that I think it's fair to ask, are you talking about the same people who would be taking precautions, who would like, they believe in science enough to

enter a trial. So they also believe in science enough to be masking and social distancing and all that kind of stuff. So are both groups less likely to get COVID than other people. But still, they see the difference. But that's why you have the control group is because then you can compare those two set groups of people and say, we still saw a significantly higher number of infections in the placebo group than we did in the study arm. So, and that's what they did. They discussed challenge trials, which are, you give, you vaccinate somebody and then

give them the virus and see what happens. Ethically very dicey. There's an argument to be made that you could do them, but since there's still so little, there's still so much for us to learn about the long-term effects of this virus, that's the problem, right? Because like you could pick a bunch of healthy college age students or something. I know that maybe a college age student I know was contacted about possibly enrolling in one. She did not, but as far as I know they didn't happen, but that was a discussion. Could we do challenge trials?

And then the big argument I'm seeing is that the COVID vaccine has been rushed and hasn't gone through rigorous testing. Um, rushed is true, right? I mean, technically, in what sense do you mean rushed faster than they would normally do a vaccine, not in the sense that we cut corners and skip protocols in order to, uh, we rush it rushed in the sense of rush delivery. They tried really hard to bring it the same consistent, safe way they always have, but it was a rush.

You know what? It's the maximum rush. Actually, that's a good way of looking at it. This is actually a really good, or stumbled into relevance. I think you have. No, I think you found a really good analogy. When you need a package like overnighted to you,

and so you pay extra to get the get the thing over nighted to you. Your expectation is not that the item that you have just ordered will be like launched out of a t-shirt cannon as they drive past your house. Exactly. Like thrown from the shelf into someone's hands who then like quickly stuffs it into a box and throws it onto the back of a truck that then drives at a hundred miles per hour to like, you know, get put in the back of an airplane from like an unlicensed pilot who really shouldn't be doing this and is fine under the cover of darkness so

that nobody finds out about it. The launch pad McClack. Yeah. I don't know. No, what you expect is just that the channels that can move it faster are being used so that it gets to you faster. That is what has happened here. No corners were cut. It was not done in any way that was, you know, like neglecting scientific rigor. These vaccines were made the same way all vaccines are made. They just had the money

and the resources and the lack of barriers that allowed them to move at this speed. This is, some could look at the like science could move this speed all the time. We have the technology. We could move this fast all the time. If you have the money and the political will and the resources and the backing and the belief of all the people involved to do it. We could we could do great things like this constantly.

We got to the moon. You know, catch the moon. It really makes you stop and question whether capitalism has any business in medicine and scientific research when you see this, but that's a whole other conversation. Yeah, maybe next time. Sorry, I'm just saying we could always move this fast. So that hopefully answers your questions. Quels from fears about vaccines. You know, if you're getting them, that's good for you.

Congratulations. I'd love to know that I, you know, had that level of safety that my wife is enjoying. Yeah, I'm got your arm got swollen. There was a little bit of swelling, but I'm always working out. It's not that palpable, not. It could have been my muscle bust, just making it look better and more swollen. It was it. There was a palpable knot.

Thanks so much, I do confess it. Thanks so much to the taxpayers for these were theme songs. It's a departure that's not actually accurate. That's my brother and my brother made. Thanks to the taxpayers for these. They're song medicines as the intro and outro of our program. That is the actual title track. I just think we should reiterate.

I can't tell you how much I believe in these vaccines and the scientists who have made them enough that we both earn a trial. Again, like our family members are in a trial, we would enroll our children in a trial. I would advocate strongly that when you are able to, when it is your turn and your name is called, get there.

Get the vaccine, the way that we protect all the people, like all of the kids who have not been, you know, included in the studies and all the pregnant and breastfeeding people who have not been included in the studies and may be a little wary at this point for that reason reason and all the people who don't have access to it. Because that's the other thing, like we are so privileged to be talking about getting this facts whether or not we want to get this vaccine in the next few months. There are parts of this country and then even more so corners of this world where they don't have that option. People will not have the option to get any of these vaccines

for the entire entirety of 2021. Yeah. And every person that gets vaccinated is helping to protect all the people who aren't yet. Some words of the world can't even get them. It's an easy to hear a thing about taking two. No, that's why I call the investigator. We, uh, okay. So, uh, if you're listening to this on Friday,

tomorrow is December 19th, and we are doing our annual candlelight spectacular, but this one's extra duper special because you can participate no matter where you are on this beautiful globe of ours. The candlelight's 2020 special is a taped event that will begin at 8 p.m. Eastern tomorrow, December 19th, but it is a video on demand thing. So you can watch it until January 4th. We'll be doing a sort of tweet along at 8.05 p.m. on Saturday. You do the hashtag canalites. I know, it's great.

It's like over two hours. It's so jam-packed full of songs and skits and goofs and celebrities and dances and. The medicine called Christmas trilogy. Yeah, come. It could be complete. I say that, but we'll probably do a fourth one next year. Well, this is the fans demand it. It's gonna be great. I say that, but we'll probably do a fourth one next. Well, if the fans demand it, it's going to be great.

It tickets are 625 and proceeds from that are going to Harm Any House, which is as we were talking about earlier, a shelter for people experiencing homelessness in our region. It's a whole organization. It helps people get housed and get jobs and all kinds of services, access, all kinds of services within our community. It's a wonderful organization that I'm very excited to take my vaccinated body back to to provide medical care next year.

Bit.au-wide-for-d-slash-cannonline-2020. If you can't watch live, don't sweat it. You can still get your tickets and watch it whenever you please. So please do that. It's a great cause. And I really am so proud of the show. Wait till you see it. You won't believe how absolutely bug wild it is. That is going to do it for us for

this week. Thank you so much. And be sure to join us again next time for talk about until then my name is just Mac Roy. I'm Sydney McRoy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. Wait, come back, listener. Wait, I stopped the music. Also, Sabons Paperback. Do you wanna mention that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't wanna forget.

This is a special, last one of these before Christmas, so do you wanna say, since we probably wanna have an episode next week because of Christmas, I would imagine, bit.au.wifords.lash. Sabons Paperback comes out December 29th. So this is the last episode before then. If you wanna pre-order slash, saw bones paperback comes out December 29th. This is the last episode before then. If you want to pre-order it, please, please, please pre-order it. Get it, that really helps us out.

The first week sales are a big deal for a book. It's got new content. Exactly. It's got some new stuff, chapters that are relevant to the pandemic, and everything that's happening now is not about that, but relevant to those things about quarantine and such. New art for my sibling Taylor that you will greatly enjoy. So, okay. Extra stuff. Bit.au. I'm Fort slash solvans. Bit.au.

paperback. Please go. Pre-order that now. We really, really appreciate it. December 29th. Thank you so much. Okay. Back to the music. Alright! Maximumfun.org Comedy and culture Artist Oat? Audience supported