Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Dr. Charles Drew and Blood Donations

Episode Date: February 22, 2022

In a Sawbones rarity, we’re talking about someone who contributed positively to the medical field. Very positively. Dr. Charles Drew, the first Black person to get a doctorate from Columbia University was also the person to discover a better method for preserving blood for use in transfusions. And we’re glad he did, because did you know there’s a national blood shortage?For information on the blood shortage and how to donate blood: https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/dlp/red-cross-national-blood-shortage-crisis.htmlMusic: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers https://taxpayers.bandcamp.com/

Saw bones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, talk is about books. One, two, one, two, three, four. Hello everybody and welcome to Saw Bones, a marinal tour of Miscite Adminison. for the mouth. Wow. Hello everybody, and welcome to Saw Bones, a Marinal Tour of Miscite Adminisson.

I'm your co-host Justin McRoy. And I'm Sydney McRoy. And today we're going to be celebrating a very special month. The month that I Justin McRoy became a notary public. Just got the paperwork through today. It's very exciting. A lot of people are talking about it.

And, um, gosh, February. It's very exciting. A lot of people are talking about it. And, um, gosh, February. That's not the most important thing to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month.

I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month.

I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd like to celebrate this month. I'd yeah, Justin gives off that feeling of like, guys are notary, I bet. I bet that guys. I need something notarized. I bet I should call Justin McRoy. I bet he... I don't know that you know what I'm saying,

but I don't know that that's necessarily my podcast persona is like guy who should be a notary, but like if you know me personally, that is 100% my level. Yeah. That is where I'm at. Guy who's probably a notary. And now it is. And now you be correct.'s probably a notary. And now it is.

And now you'll be correct. He is a notary. No, just in February is not about you. Everything's about you. Sorry. February is not about you. It's Black History Month. You know that.

I know. Just having some fun. Yes. And because it is Black History Month, I thought we would do something that we don't often get to do on sawbones, which is talk about someone in medical history who did good stuff. Wow, always nice to hear. Not usually we're talking about when you come up as a figure of interest on our show. Yeah, if you don't want Sydney, you want Sydney to keep your name out of mouth.

Now, we've done this before. We've talked about other famous people in medical history who actually did good stuff and contributed and that kind of thing. So this isn't the first time, but I thought that this would be particularly timely because not only can we celebrate an amazing black physician in history, but we can also emphasize the importance of blood donation at the same time, because as you may be aware,

we're in, we're in dire straits in much of the country in terms of blood banking supplies. Yeah, it is not, it is not, now some people are doing their part. Yes, like you. Yeah, I know, I know you wanted to brag about that. It's, you know, I just got the notification that my blood is headed to, God, it's headed to WVU, to be used in the medical center there. I do wish that I could have somehow indicated them that that's the blood of an odory.

I mean, it wasn't when it was extracted, so I don't know if it's quite the same thing. But like next time I donate, I'll be sure, like, can you please put an end on there? For notary P, for notary public, or something like that. Yeah, okay. Because I want people to know. You want people to know.

It's a wonderful experience. We'll talk more about that in Urju if you can to consider donating blood at the end. But it is a wonderful experience. I donated blood once overseas and had the opportunity to actually like take my bag of blood from my body and hang it on an IV pole and help. Well, I didn't hook it up because I am not as good at that as the nurse that I was working

with. That's how I thought that. But I got to do that. And it was such an amazing feeling and you can get that glow. That's a said, the vessel blood just goes straight. You can't get fresher than that. No, it was still warm.

So warm from a vein. But anyway, we have done an episode before about the history of blood transfusions back in 2015 when we were so young, naive, had no idea what was in store. So if you want to hear the whole history of all the dumb stuff we did before we figured out blood transfusions and all of our attempts, that is detailed in that episode. I don't want to go back and talk about all of that again. But I did think, like I said, this was a really good opportunity to talk about blood donation, blood banking, and celebrate the work of Dr. Charles Drew, which when I say Dr. Drew, I'm talking about

Charles Drew. Dr. Charles Drew. We're talking about the good one. No good one. The famous American physician, surgeon, scientist, blood scientist expert who is the father of blood banking, as you know it. Not. Love line doctor.

No. Who I think has said some sort of... He said some things we're not going to get into. We're not going to get into that doctor. Dr. Drow. No. No. Dr. Charles Drew was born in Washington, DC in 1904, the oldest of five children.

He studied at Amherst College and then he worked as a professor of biology and chemistry for a couple of years at Morgan College to save money for medical school. When he applied to medical school, he decided to go to McGill University in Montreal for his medical training. And while he was there, he would work alongside a Dr. John BT. Now, I tried to find out more about Dr. John BT. And I couldn't find a lot of like documentation of like his work there, because I kind of wanted some like context for like, I knew he was working on treatments for shock.

And like, what was he doing and what was his history? Apparently there is, cause we're in Canada, right? Apparently there is also a John Bede in Canada who was associated with like neo-nazies. So it was really hard to research this specific John Bede. So I can't tell you much about him, but he was a guy who was a doctor working there who was interested in how can we treat shock. Now, do you know what shock is?

Uh, I mean, I understand basically, it's when you got, you received too much of something input wise, be that temperature or visual or or lever and it makes your body go, whoa. Okay, well that's different than the shock I'm talking about. That is, that is a shock, yes. I am talking about like medical shock, like the condition of, and there's different. I'm like, what am I talking about? No, like, okay. Shock is a, He's in shock, you know what I mean?

Like, Yeah, but that's not when you're, He just defeated Holmes Goober. Yeah, that's when you're like, He's in shock. He's in shock. There are different types of shock, medical shock, and they're usually distinguished by like,

the cause, like septic shock, is when you're septic probably from, or well, from an infection of some sort, should they probably that you are? You have an infection, you've become septic and you can go into shock from that. There's hemorrhagic shock, which is you lose a lot of blood and you go into shock. And basically the idea is that you're not getting blood and therefore oxygen to a lot of parts of your body all at the same time, your blood pressure will drop.

You can start to have multi organ damage. It's a big deal, right? It is deadly if not treated. Shock. No matter what the cause is, you got to do something about it. The treatment of shock is different from shock treatment. Those are two similar sounding concepts that are completely different. No, this has nothing to do with electricity, like shocks. This is different. Okay. So basically what he was looking at is in a lot of these cases,

you need to put volume back in the vascular system. You need to put something back in to maintain blood pressure, to keep blood flowing to the organs, to keep, you know, you're going to get a lot of blood in there. So that's the solution. For a lot of these conditions, we need to put blood or there's lots of options we have now. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options.

We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options.

We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a lot of options. We have a that's the solution. For a lot of these conditions, we need to put blood or there's lots of options we have now. I don't know if you have any of these. I don't know if you have any needles finding out the other things we put in there besides blood. Well, at this point, we didn't have a lot of ideas.

I mean, blood seems good. Well, there's lots of options now. Sailing? Yeah. Gatorade? No, not gatorade. GDI? Well, you don't, I mean, you can drink pdLI, but that, but like when somebody's wanted to shock, you don't have time to be like,

go get me a case of pdLI. What about bronidone? No. So, okay, at this point in history, the idea of just someone needs blood, give it to them is not that simple, okay? Here's why. So we knew already about the concept of blood transfusions. And like I said, a lot of this we talked about in a past episode, but just to kind of sum up so you know where we are. We had, like I said, we had already known about it for about a hundred years. Dr. James Blundel was a British obstetrician who during a delivery where the patient was losing a lot of blood, he actually took blood out of the patient's husband, the father of a child, took blood from him and injected it

into her. Quick. Hey, shout out to the people who were choosing their obstetrician and there was some may-name blood, Dr. Blundel. They were like, sounds good. Dr. Blundel guarantees to drop your baby just the regular amount. No matter what, even though it sounds like I'm pulling by a freaking Rowan Adkinson, like I trust him. I'm a regular good doctor. And he, I like was one of the early,

like pioneers of blood transfusion, good. Despite the name Dr. Blundel. So. Dr. Blundt sounds like a pudding doctor. So, this was back in 1818. Okay. And this is obviously not how we do blood transfusions today. We don't just randomly like, here, let me draw some blood from you and inject it straight into you.

Good, good work. Like, we wouldn't do that now. But this was like the first attempt at these things. And since then, there had been a lot of research done in that area to try to make the process better, to do like whole blood transfusions. So not just like, like he literally had drawn a few CCs of blood from the one person and injected into the other person.

So like doing whole blood transfusions for patients with hemophilia, that was one of the first areas where they really tried this. Discovering blood types. At this point in history, we already know about blood types. We know about in transfusion reactions. If you don't use the right type, what can happen? We have the concept of matching somebody's type and also crossing the blood.

Like, let's take blood from the donor and blood from who we're going to give the blood to, the recipient, and put it together and make sure nothing crazy happens. Like, we had already sort of figured a lot of that stuff out. We had briefly tried some weird stuff like, why don't we transfuse milk into people? Oh, yeah. That wasn't great. There were a lot of reactions from the transfusion of, it was like cow or human milk. So we weren't doing that.

We had figured out saline at this point that if somebody just needs volume, you just need more stuff to keep. It's just salt water. The doctors come up and say, I need more, but it's just salt water. And we even knew about like, what's that ocean?

There's other stuff in the ocean. Plaint of the truth. Saline is like just saltwater. Mermin, coral, mystery. We even knew about like universal donors and we knew about anti-clotting stuff like sodium citrate that you can put in there so that the blood won't clop in the bag. Because that was a big problem at first was like, you don't have a lot of time. Here it is, I'm ready to save your life

with my bag of scabs. Well, I mean, that really would have been a problem. That was why it was like direct. Well, you're right. You don't have to actually shock every time I say something that's apropos to the conversation. Yeah, but this allowed for like, you could store the blood for short periods of time very short

We're talking a couple days like you still you still don't have blood banking abilities But you at least don't have to take it directly out of one person and put it into another they even tried for a while like sewing of vein from one person to an artery of another person to like have the blood flow Direct hookup. Oh, yeah. But that didn't work very well, but it was very important to organ transplantation science later. So it was a really big thing that they did,

but that didn't really help blood transfusion. Anyway, so if a patient needs blood and you've got a couple of units that you've stored for a couple of days or whatever, great, but in an emergency, when maybe multiple people need blood product or somebody needs more than just a few units, this is not ideal, right? A lot of hospitals are not going to be able to maintain that and do this. So because he worked with this John Beatty at McGill on this sort of shock treatment and

well, treatment of shock. And that kind of thing, he was already aware of this problem. This was already something that he was interested in. He'd studied, he had knowledge about as he continued his career. He graduated with a medical degree and a Master of Surgery from McGill and he went to work initially as a professor of pathology at Howard, and then as a surgical instructor and assistant at Friedman's Hospital. But in 1938, this is really when he kind of took all that knowledge and experience, and he would sort of embark on the science

that would define his career. He was a Rockefeller scholar at Columbia, and while he was there, he devoted the research on what he would eventually earn his doctorate in is blood sciences, which I didn't know that was its own. I think that's a very cool thing. Like, I am a doctor of blood science. Pretty good. I think that's a very cool thing. Yeah. So he's already a medical doctor. He's getting also, this is like a PhD. He's getting another doctorate. I've had the interview process to make sure you're not a vampire for that as like wild. Like because of course you would be, you know what I mean?

Like a lot of vampires are trying to get a blood science. A lot of them are just like number one. Number one interest. I don't know what girls me to. I don't know if you'd want to, I mean, that well, I guess vampires are kind of arrogant because I would say like, why wouldn't you just want to like something that wouldn't be too high profile, just like volunteer at a blood bank or something? Or like, you know what I mean? We want to kind of like, fly under the radar. If you volunteer to blood bank, someone's taking inventory of that, right? So if you're sipping off a pint, go to a place with a quality or whatever you do,

you're, people are going to notice that pretty quickly. But if they're giving it to you, if you're like, I need all this for research, trust me. Then no one's going to check up on you. I guess that's true. And you can. I mean, all this for research. And I guess you could just say, like, well, it didn't work. I tried.

I don't have anything published. I sometimes it doesn't work. I tried. I don't have anything published. He's a science. Sometimes it doesn't work. I'm standing on the shoulders of giant. So, okay. So anyway, he took all of his knowledge. He earned his doctorate and his dissertation was titled, Banked Blood, a study in blood preservation.

So basically, he took a lot of the sort of the basic science that was being done on these areas of separating blood and storing blood and preserving blood and what he figured out from all this and what he developed on his own was a method of separating out the components of blood. So what we think of as whole blood, which is like I just took some blood from your arm.

There's the blood, the whole thing, all the blood. It can only be kept for so long, but if you take out the cells and then you've got the plasma, everything else, separate, that if dried or nowadays frozen appropriately can be kept a lot longer. So all of a sudden you go from a couple days to a few months that you can store this stuff, right? And you can reconstitute it when you need it. So you keep it in storage and when you need to, you know,

reliquify it, you can do that. You can combine it with cells if you need whole blood again, or you can just give people plasma. Sometimes, I don't wanna get another particular, but sometimes you can just give people plasma. It's a little dirty, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So nowadays, just to flash forward a little bit nowadays. We have

lots of options for do people need like packed red blood cells right now? Do they need fresh frozen plasma? Do they need cryoprecipitat? Like there are lots of different sort of and it depends on what's going on with the patient. You can do they have like different like platelets. They have one called power red, which is that you could do when you sign up. I didn't go this route, but it's, they, a special machine is used to allow you to safely donate two units of red blood cells

during one donation, and then they give you the plasma and playlists back. Yes. It's like, if you want to get really, if you want to level up the donation, you go power red. And what we're talking about right now with Dr. Drew is like the beginning of that.

This is where all this idea started, and which really allows us to best utilize the blood that's donated, right? So that we can get people, the parts they really need, save it for as long as it's safe. You know, make sure it's all screen properly, make sure it's matched properly. I mean, like this is the beginning of all that sort of thought process.

So this was his dissertation. This is the science that he was sort of spearheading. What did he do with it? I will tell you, but first we got to go to the Billy Department. Let's go. you, but first we got to friends to share the highs and lows of their teen years. Like moments with Aisha Tyler.

But when you're a kid, the six are just pretty low. Go to school, try not to get in trouble, get laid. Jamila Jamil. I watched television probably every waking hour during that time and I was sh** faced on medicine. And Dave Holmes. We talked and talked and then everybody laughed at us just and it was just us too, and I was like, I love you.

Learn how you too can be a functioning adult after the drama and heartbreak of high school. Every week on the JV Club with Janet Farnie, find it on Maximum Fun. Or wherever you get your podcasts, this is a judgement free show. We have wasted this world. Our magic put a storm in the sky that has rendered the surface of our planet uninhabitable. But beneath the surface, well that's another story entirely. In a city built leagues below the apocalypse, survivors of the storm forge paths through a strange new world.

Some seek salvation for their homeland above. Others seek to chart the vast undersea expanse outside the city's walls. And others still seek what else, fortune and glory. Dive into the ethersea, the latest campaign from the adventure zone. Every other Thursday on MaximumFun.org or wherever you listen to podcasts. So he has all this knowledge. What's he doing with this head? He publishes this thesis, this dissertation. He is, by the way, he was also the first

Black American to receive a doctoral degree from Columbia. So he does this and it's groundbreaking. It's very exciting what he has published. And it drew the attention of a Dr. John Scutter who had also been studying methods of preservation and the concept of like how can we better bank blood so that we don't, so that we can have a supply of it in a hospital for whoever comes in, a trauma or whatever injuries or what if we have a mass casualty event whatever it is like

How can we supply people blood better what can we do? um and there was a ton of interest in this at this moment in history Because the year is 1940 War it war drums are sounding across the planet Yeah, that's war Our fighting men women are getting up to do war. Yeah, over there, over there. Over there. So it is, this is prior to the US entering the war. But obviously, we were interested keeping tabs on things. Would love some more blood had like a side we were on

You might say not so much so that we had entered the war But but definitely had one one side we were sort of you know ready to support and so It's 1940 and the idea of having plentiful bloodstores for transfusions is very appealing Right to us depending on what the future would indeed bring, and to the people of Great Britain who very much needed blood banking at this time. Our former overlords, you mean? Well, I mean, like, we're in, it's 1940. I'm not gonna let go of the grudge.

A lot of people are just gonna sail on pass and keep on drinking tea or whatever over here, but I won't let it go. I would hope by even 1940 people were kind of over that. No, never. No, still not. I'm never let it go. So Scutter reached out to Drew and said, hey, I would love if we could develop a program for banking blood.

And we can ship it to Great Britain. We can ship it to the UK. Wouldn't that be great? Like the US can do it. You're the genius who came up with all of us. Let's get together. Let's do it. Let's make it happen. So Dr. Drew spearheaded what would be called the blood for Britain program. That's fun. Yeah. And love the illiteration for sure. Yeah, and basically, and that's exactly what he was doing. He was collecting, processing, testing, making sure it wasn't contaminated, you know, safe collection and storage of blood from initially like New York hospitals. So they were taking blood from

kind New Yorkers who are willing to donate and happy have it preserved and shipped overseas to support the British military. He collected over 14,500 pints of blood with this process donated a ton of blood to the British military. And he also developed during this the concept of like, well, what if we could take instead of having to go to a hospital to donate blood? What if we could find a way to do it out in communities, or to set up shop at other medical facilities where they don't necessarily do this? So, we developed the concept of what would be called a bloodmobile, or a blood bus.

Bloodbus. Bloodmobile, bloodbus. And you would send this blood bus out to wherever, And it had like a refrigeration unit and everything. So you could go, have people come in, donate blood, you store their blood, and you can get it back to the hospital or wherever you're, you know, you need a bigger facility. But like he developed all this, all this sort of science so that we could increase our supply. And this was really like the first blood banking effort. Dr. Charles Drew came up with all these ideas, strategize, not just like the science behind it,

but the logistics. How will we do this? He was the one who figured it all out. And like I said, this was before the US at Interd World War II. Well, once we did enter the war. Boilers? You think people don't know. But once we did enter the war, it became all the more apparent why we need drew skills,

why we needed, you know, to take those same techniques that he was using to bank blood, ship it overseas. We need to start doing to support the US military at this point as well. That's when we're going, Brent, we're like, listen, can we have some of that blood back? Do you have any of it? I know we got all like, will and daily start throwing blood. Blood around because we got a little cocky, but we would actually like some of that back. That's a American blood.

That's a New York blood and not UK blood. Give it a toss. No, we didn't do that. Dr. Drew was named director of the first American Red Cross blood bank, the very first effort of this in February of 1941. And basically his job at this point is everything you did for blood for Britain, we want to do it here. We want to create a second blood, his second blood bank. And this would be specifically to supply the US military personnel, especially like the

army in Navy is where this was was focused. So unfortunately, as he began this part of his career, it would be cut short by racism. So he began this part of his career, it would be cut short by racism. So he began to collect blood explicitly, again, using a lot of the same like science and logistics, all these techniques that he had developed that were his, like he had done all this. For members of the US Army and Navy, and the military came to him, the Army and Navy and said, this is great except we don't want blood from any black Americans, please. And obviously, this is ridiculous.

It's besides being racist and ignorant. It's devoid of science. Like there's no reason to limit blood donation by race. There's no scientific basis for that idea. Right. And he pointed all that out and was very upset about it. And they were like, okay, well, listen, fine, fine. We get your point.

How about instead we just sort of store separately, maybe like segregate, you could say, the blood supply from black donors and white donors so that they would only use the blood supply from white donors, right? And at this point, because again, this is racist and unscientific and unnecessary and dangerous because it's a war effort.

You need all the blood you can get from any kind willing donor. At that point, Dr. Charles Drew said, you know what? I'm actually done. And so he resigned his post in 1942 in protest of the racist policies from the US military. I know. It's a complete shame. Now the work he had done, the methods he had spearheaded his dissertation all of his research all of his science People were still benefiting from you know all of that good that he had done and put out into the world was still there I mean the first blood banks he created these first logistics and methods he was the one who came up with this who problems solved all of this and

provided who knows at the end of the day, stemming from all this research and stuff, how many people's lives were saved from these methods. I mean, it would be impossible to quantify the number of people who benefited from this. He did continue his medical career for a while at Howard and Friedman's Hospital. He was a professor, he was a surgeon. He was honored in his lifetime. It's always nice because I feel like a lot of these famous figures from medical history are not recognized into after they-

A lot of history, a lot of history, right? That's true, that's true. But the NAACP gave him an award in 1944 for his just outstanding efforts and achievements that changed mankind, essentially. And to this day, there are a number of medical facilities, schools. He was on a stamp in 1981. He has been honored since then for his contributions to medical science and for being the father of blood banking.

I know you always give me a hard time when I mention the end of someone's life on this show, but I think that it is relevant because the first time I heard about Dr. Charles Drew was on an episode of MASH and they talk about him and they actually repeat a myth that I did not know was a myth for many, many years after watching that episode. So if you've seen that episode of Mash, what I'm about to tell you is that, Hock, I lied to you, I'm sorry. But he died in a car accident

since about the year 1939, he would go to an annual free clinic that was held in Tuskegee and volunteer his medical services, He would go to an annual free clinic that was held in Tuskegee and Volunteer his medical services his surgical services during this free clinic And so he did the same and was headed back. This was 50 and was headed back from this the next morning and Unfortunately, died in a fatal car accident on his way home. There is a story and if you've seen the mash episode, you've heard it, that he was taken to a hospital and

desperately needed a blood transfusion and was denied it because he was black. This is actually not true, but that was the that was the myth that I had heard on mash and thought was true. Well, this is shocking. Sydney's from an acro, a popular podcaster and candidate for high-level nuggets has racist them a myth? No! I don't believe this Sydney. talking, Sydney's from an acro- I probably the podcaster in Canada for how the Lulget says, racism ameth. I don't believe this, Sydney. Why would you even say that with that in there? Don't give a sound bite, no. No. No.

Because this would take you like, it's a racist, it's not. No, I just, yes, that was not, that was not, I mean, it is, he was absolutely. I mean, worse, I've probably happened that day. So it's not, yeah, right. Yeah, no, I mean, it is, he was absolutely. I mean, it was, it's not probably happened that day. So it's not like, yeah, right. Yeah, no, I just mean that that, I had heard that story on Masha and I thought it was true for the longest time.

But it's still sad and tragic, because his life was cut short and he obviously had done so much. And such short time. And such a cut short by racism, and his life was cut short by car accidents and such tragic. Yeah, but a wonderful contribution to the list. by racism and his life was cut short by car accidents. It's a tragedy. But a wonderful contribution nonetheless. Yes, yeah.

I mean, the blood banking, as we know it, it came from him. He is the one who spearheaded that and came up with that science. And it is especially relevant, again, to celebrate Dr. Charles Drew as an outstanding black American physician surgeon, scientist, doctor who made these great contributions, but also because, as I said, right now, we are in dire need of blood donations. If you can, this is a great time to consider donating blood.

I would especially raise that charged my fellow notaries. We are, as you know, held to a higher standard and this is your chance to step up and do the right thing for all notaries. Yeah, and I can tell you, it's very real and it's being felt. I have in medical facilities where I've worked in recent weeks, we have had, you know,

variously no blood product in the hospital at various times. It's also not that bad for the record. I shouldn't say no blood product, I mean, of specific blood products we needed. I'm a bit of a wimp and it's really like, it didn't hurt that bad, it didn't take that long,

it didn't wait around that long, did give free snacks the end. That's the only way that that's- I was gonna say, do you get snacks? Oh, I got snacks. Yeah, they'll let you have another one if you ask. If you're like, if you want a second one, you can totally get another one.

And they got juice too. Simon, they have brownie brittle, like, and chips. Like, it was pretty good. I'm fruit and stuff. And I wanted to just as a kind of brief addendum. So take sure of this next. A lot of people have asked about, or a lot of people still continue to bring up the fact

that we, at this point still have limitations on who can donate blood based on sexual behavior. So specifically the guidelines and these come from the FDA. I thought they were red cross, but they are red Cross with their VIA FDA recommendations. So any blood collection facility in the US would be subject to these same guidelines. If you are a man who has had sex with another man within the last three months, you are not allowed to donate blood, this is vastly different from even just a couple of years ago in response to the pandemic. That has changed through the years from you can never donate blood to,

if you've had sex with another man within the last year, you can't donate blood to six months to now three months in response to an increased need, which I think a lot of people have pointed out is lousy. We didn't let you donate blood, but now we will because we really need it. And because we knew it was safe, and we knew that this policy at this point was unnecessary

because we have such great methods of testing blood product for things like HIV or hepatitis or whatever the concern is. Specifically, what this stems from is the beginnings of HIV whatever the concern is. Specifically what this stems from is the beginnings of HIV and the AIDS epidemic. That is where all of this comes from. There is a study going on currently that hopefully we'll change this completely. It's called the Advanced Study and there are sites all over the country where they are trying to see if this is, well, what many, what many expect is that this is not necessary.

That certainly it's always important to ask people who are donating blood screening questions to assess their risk for something like HIV, but that the time frame in which they may have had sex with a member of the same sex is not the best question to ask, is not the best data point somewhat, so to speak, to collect. So hopefully we should have results from the study later this year. This will change that because it's always been discriminatory in a lot of ways it is. And it's not the best science, it's not the best way to screen donors and we can do better. And so hopefully from this study we'll see a change in that this year.

I hope so. Well, thank you Sid and you for that and thanks Dr. Drew for that incredible conversation. Dr. Charles Drew. Dr. Charles Drew, well all Dr. Drew's are pretty worthy of syllabus. No, I wouldn't. No. Thank you to you so much for listening. We very much appreciate it.

We do my math here. Yes, we are going to be doing a live virtual show as part of, well, we're going to be opening for my brother and my brother and me. If you go to bit.ly, Fort slash Mbmb virtual, you can see all the details. It's February 26th, that's Saturday. Tickets are $10.00. The show's going to start at 9pm.

You can watch it on VOD. That's video on demand for 14 days afterwards. It's going to be, I would say a hood and possibly a holler that is yet to be seen. But I know short notice, it's just like this Saturday, but we hope to see you there, bit.doi4tslash, MBA and virtual. Thanks to taxpayers, the use of their song,

Medicines as the intro and outro of our program. Oh, mackleroymerch.com. You can, for the rest of February, just a few more days to get the, we're calling it the bookstore trouble pin, but it's a reference to bookstores. It's very clever. Our designer said I'm okay. I didn't want to film a job with that one. And a great quote from Sydney, I'm not ashamed of my clown husband.

That is now a bumper sticker that you can buy that supports the Huntington Children's Museum. So please get some of those. That's designed by Jacob Bailey. So thank you, Jacob. That's going to do it for us. What's the thing you got, Sid? Nope, that'll do it.

That's going to do it until next time. My name is Justin McRoy. I'm Sidney McRoy. And as always, don't, chill a hole in your head! Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artists don't. Audience supported.