Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Our 2020 Flu Shot Extravaganza

Episode Date: October 2, 2020

Gather the family around, it's time for our annual celebration of the flu shot! We got you the PERFECT gift: A bunch of answers to your flu shot quandries, especially in the age of COVID-19. C'mon, the party's starting!More Information: The Immunization Action CoalitionMusic: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saw bones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We were shot through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines that escalate my cop for the mouth. Wow! Hello, and welcome to Sawbones, Marinald Durham, Skyd in Medicine. for the mouth. Hello, we're ready and welcome to Saw Bones, Marinald Durham, this guy at Medicine. I'm a co-host Justin McRoy. And I'm Sydney McRoy. Sydney's that time of year. Oh, that's spooky. All the witches and coblins and ghouls of the night come out.

And they go to a jug store or a hospital or something. Play your local health department or primary care physicians office. It's flu shot season. Yay. Yay. How come the flu? Hold on, let me see if I can still get a boozella button.

Go ahead, keep talking. I'll just at any point that seems appropriate. I'll just play the boozella button. That's right. It is, ha ha ha ha ha ha. You probably already knew this. It is, uh, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha going and every, you know, it's like a few muscle flu shots season. And I get so excited about it. Do you? Yeah.

See, we actually, we can't, it's hard for us to talk about anticipation for flu shot season in this house because Charlie's so afraid of shots. Yeah, she is, she, she insists she's not getting her flu shot this year. She's not going to get the coronavirus vaccine comes out. That's what she says. She actually, she caused the flu shot the, shh. The shh, right.

Yes, you can't talk about it. You just have to say shh. Anyway, it's okay. We get her through it. We all get vaccinated in this house. Whether we like it or not. Yeah, and I like it. Let me be clear, actually, it's my kink.

Okay. Anyway, so I, we asked her questions and we're going to answer some questions as we usually do on this show this time of year about concerns, fears, questions about the flu shot because of all the vaccines, I feel like it's the one that has the most like misinformation around it or the most at least in my anecdotal observations, the most hesitancy. So it's also the only vaccine where people feel like, even with the like vaccines,

feel like they can get a little bit of creative with it. Like there's a little bit of jazz and the flu shot vaccine, maybe I will, maybe I won't. I don't know. And not something we do about literally any other vaccine, but the flu shot, I don't know. It is. It makes it up.

It's really true. I am always shocked how many people will say, like, oh, I'm so four vaccines. I get all my vaccines. Well, not always a flu shot. Not, well, I've never gotten a flu shot. But anyway, that always shocks me because it's a vaccine. And if you're four vaccines, get this one too, please.

It's getting the flu isn't pleasant. No. And I think this year is understandably colored by stuff. We have a lot of people who are raising, I think, legitimate concerns, whether or not they sort of can be a swage. That's very much up to you. No one should listen to me about anything. Well, we're going to cover, there's a lot of questions related to how, what is the interplay between COVID,

the flu vaccine, flu season, people who are kind of sheltering in place, like how does that all play out? We're gonna talk about, we got a lot of questions about that, but then we got some more kind of general questions about the flu shot. I'm gonna try my best to address almost all of them, right? At least as many as possible.

I've kind of grouped them in terms of their theme. Do you want me to ask the, or ask questions or you, no, you, okay, I'll just, I have this organized in my brain in a way that you can't, oh, you want to try to answer them? I'll just try to answer them. You can give it a quick shot sometimes.

Ha, ha, ha. But I'm, so first of all, we got... I don't see if I still have a room shot button. Oh no. Oh, I don't think so. I'll replace it with this. I only have eight buttons. Well, I don't want that one. It's weird that I only have eight buttons and I still have one that's labeled this. Tank damage. I don't know what that is. So a tank-dining button. and I still have one that's labeled this. Uh, chain charming. I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is.

Okay, so timing is my first category of questions. Okay. Uh, a lot of you wrote to us to ask about like the idea of, is there a perfect time to get a flu vaccine? For instance, Kyle wrote, I got my flu shot in mid August this year because there were no other customers in the pharmacy area, so it seemed safe. Did I get it too early? Well, I need to get a second one. And there are a lot of other questions similar to this. Let me talk about shots. It's never too early. The best time to get your flu shot is right

now. So this is true. This is the way, this is what the CDC says. This is the now. So this is true. This is the way this is what the CDC says. This is the recommendation. And I should preface with, by the way, we've also gotten this question a lot recently. Should I trust the CDC anymore? I don't know. I understand your concerns. I think that I have made my fan, I am a member of the CDC fandom. I think I've made that clear on the show before. You liked the macro neighborhood. Good. Yeah, I am the first to admit that I have concerns about some of the data we've gotten from the CDC as it relates to coronavirus. But when it comes to the flu shot and influenza, one, that same stuff has been on the website for a really long time.

That's a whole other group of scientists and people. There's not as much, I would say, political necessity to interfere with any of that. As perhaps it is possibly being done with coronavirus. I'm not going to say it is, I don't know. But when it comes to this flu shot stuff, as we're going to get into, these are like worldwide consortiums that come up with these recommendations and ideas. So, I mean, this stuff has been out there for a long time. This is not new. I'm just helping to kind of get it out there and quell your fears. Anyway, the recommendation is to get it as soon as it is offered to you. Here's the reason we say that.

We had a lot of people to vaccinate. If everybody waited until later in the season, well, one, we just couldn't logistically vaccinate everybody. The shorter you make the period of time during which you give vaccines, the more people you got to vaccinate per day, the, I mean, the heart rate, like you just get, this is just a numbers game. The other thing is, for a lot of people, what we found is that if you have the opportunity to get the flu vaccine and you pass on it, that might be the chance for you in that flu season,

and you may not go seek it out again. I'm not saying you personally, if you're seeing they're going, well, of course I would. That's great. But there are a lot of people who are busy and if they miss that opportunity, they're not going to get it later. And getting it is always better than not getting it. So these are the reasons that we say, yeah, as soon as it's out there, get it.

So it would be bad if like everybody showed up in August on the same day to get their flu shot, because we just wouldn't be able to do it. Yeah, or more likely if everybody waited until November. Yeah, but if everybody, you're saying that if everybody did show up in like August in the same week or whatever to get it, it would be really bad, right? So you're, you think that would be bad too? Just a yes or no. A simple question. Yes. If everyone showed up at the exact same time to get the flu vaccine that would be wow. So someone's code Sydney McAroy advocates waiting to get flu shot. I do not

who saw this coming. I do not. I'm sorry. Sorry. Several people asked like Denise asked that they heard that the antibodies only last for six months and is this why we shouldn't get it early. And so to address that specific question, no, we don't know for sure how long the antibodies last. We don't know that they only last six months in you as an individual. It varies.

It varies from person to person. It varies depending on your age and health status. There is- Could be 20 years. You could have some cool 80s flu shots in there some like that. Probably not. But there is variation and there is truth to the idea There is could be 20 years you could have some cool 80s flu shots in there some way probably not But there is variation and there is truth to the idea that if flu season strikes way later than usual

You know in March or April then Would it have been better had you got in the flu shot in October, November as opposed to August? But here's the other flip side of that Sometimes flu season starts in October. There are cases of flu happening now. Now that does not mean that it's too late. It's never too late to get the flu shot. But there's unpredictability. There's a range of times that the flu tends to hit its peak. So the best thing is for you, for the safety of the people around you, to protect you,

just get it as soon as you have the opportunity to do so. Go get the flu vaccine. There is no reason to wait to make sure that it's more effective later. And there is no reason to say, oh, well, it's too late then. It's already October. I miss it. No, please go get it now if you haven't gotten it. The timing is, if you think you need a flu shot, go get a flu shot.

That's the timing that you should depend on. All right. OK. And thank you to everybody else who sent similar questions about timing. I know a lot of people had that concern. Like I said, a lot of people also specifically wanted to know about COVID and the flu and how that might change

this flu season. So one of the questions that several people asked, and here's an example of this from Brittany. I plan to get my flu shot next month. However, do you have any suggestions for what to say to people that are questioning getting one? Because if distancing and masks protect against COVID, don't they also protect against the flu?

I, Brittany, doesn't want to get dragged. Should, like, let me be straight up front with you. This is not me. Listen, I'm not going to come into Solba and be like, ah, I'm on the fence. Well, I'll be honest that I don't think I got an email from anybody who said they weren't getting their flu shot. Yeah, that's right. Good kids.

Good kids, that's what I'm saying. We know our audience, we know who you are. It's all the owners, they get the job done. And this is the same, I got a question again from a lot of people, Calum said this, if I'm working from home ordering groceries in, not eating in restaurants, wearing a mask,

every time I leave my house, should I also be safe from the flu and therefore not need a flu shot. Okay, let me try, let me try to fill that one. Similar questions. The math, the math that you're wearing when you leave the house, again, is to protect mainly to protect other people. It's helping you, but it's mainly to protect others and is not,

and I think like this is kind of gone lost in the shuffle, is not a prevention of coronavirus, like 100% full-proof prevention of coronavirus in the same way. It's not a 100% full-proof protection against COVID. Yes. Her flu. Sorry. Yes. No, masks and distancing are not 100% protection against any of these.

in the vaccine or not, 100% protection against any of these. Well, against the viruses in question, I mean, I guess if we're going to get real down in dirty, there are certainly some infectious diseases that you cannot get from six feet away. But that's another show. No, but when it comes to masks and distancing and hand washing, those things certainly are somewhat protective and they help reduce the infection rate, whether we're talking about coronavirus or influenza, but they do not eliminate the possibility that you can get these things.

Number one, number two, we all are, I think that all of us tend to assume we're being completely safe. And this is not targeting anybody in particular. I include myself in this. Or every once in a while, maybe you take a little risk that you didn't think about. Maybe your mask was a little loose on the side. Maybe, you know, or you're... It's so bad. You know, when we're talking about things like,

you know, we don't think that foe mite transmission, meaning in anemone objects transmission, has a big role in COVID. We've talked about that a lot. So like ordering takeout seems to be safe to do. And I have certainly not discouraged anyone from doing so. But at the same time, if, you know, somebody sneezes on your takeout right before you grab it and

then you rub your face or something immediately after you grab it, like flu still passes that way and other viruses. So it's not impossible that you can get sick even if you're being really careful. The flu vaccine is another tool you can use along with your mask, along with distancing, along with avoiding crowds and staying home and ordering in instead of going out. All those good things you're doing, the flu vaccine is another tool you have to protect you because, oh, sorry, go ahead.

Well, the thing is, we've worried about overwhelming hospitals this whole time, right? Well, in flu season, hospitals tend to get full of flu patients because people don't get their vaccine or they get it and they get sick anyway, which we'll talk about can happen We cannot overwhelm a hospital system that's already strained with coronavirus With influenza to We are putting all wait now. There's an influenza to Also, we would put everyone at risk, the healthcare workers, the community, everybody

is at risk if our hospital system gets overwhelmed. And by not getting your flu shot and putting yourself at increased risk for influenza, you are adding to that possibility that our hospital systems get overwhelmed. Also, I heard in the debates that we're going to have a vaccine in a couple of weeks. and if that is the case, once you get the vaccine, you're going to be out there, loving your wife, loving it, and you won't have a flu shot to back it up. Who knows if you'll be doing all the coronavirus stuff, even two weeks from now. I don't know about all that. I don't think. Three weeks have fun, you're going to twist my arms. I don't want to be negative. I don't know about that, but there is. I want to be negative or you can me just think serious.

Well, the, the COVID vaccine is going to come out at some point and people are going to get it. And there is no guarantee that flu season will be over by then either. That's what I'm saying. It's a legitimate point. I don't know about two to three weeks, but there are four weeks. But there, but and as I've said, like flu season can go all the way till March, April. I mean, who knows? So get your flu vaccine. Yeah.

Get your flu, if you're concerned about COVID, I said, man, I said this months ago, get your flu vaccine. That is something that you can do that helps keep us all safe. As a health care worker, I would especially ask you that because when our hospital systems get overwhelmed, healthcare workers are put at greater risk because there isn't the time or the resources for us to be as diligent about protecting ourselves. And then we put our families at risk, we put our community at risk.

Kids are in school right now. I mean, there's a lot of reasons to take every opportunity you can to protect yourself. This is another opportunity that you can take. Several people did bring up the question, is there a place to go that's safer than other places? Sarah asked, what's the safest place to go? Some people don't in my state don't believe in masks. That's, hey, I understand that there

And the idea of going to do a doctor's office makes me anxious So what I would do is look at into your community and see if there is If your local health department is one option is doing a drive-through or an outdoor FluShot fair. I know actually our health department is doing that here where we can go, we can even print out our flu shot form at home, fill it out, bring it, and so all you have to do is get out of your car, you're standing outside in a tent,

they will take your form, double check it, of course, give it your flu shot and send you on your way. You don't even have to go in a building. Check and see, there's also one of our local pediatricians are doing that here for kids. So you can do that. You can go to a pharmacy and that thing is a lot of pharmacies are giving it all the time. So maybe just like drive up and take a peek in.

They look busy. Does it look crowded? Most places aren't when they first open. Get it at a pharmacy if it's not crowded. You could call your doctor's office. We're offering special flu shot hours at our office in the evenings and We've been kind of empty in those hours. So double check. There are a lot the healthcare community is aware that this is a concern And there are probably more options than you're aware of it be cool

They got a flu shot gun and people can hunt you, you know what I mean? That's how you get your flu shot. Just go about your daily life. And then when you least expect it, boom, got you. That would be cool, honey. And then you pay to do that to be one of the flu hunters. You would do that to be a flu hunter. Yeah. Just trying to get people who didn't do it. I would never, I would never. I would never give someone a shot or do any procedure on them without their consent. Word minister, any medical. Allzum. I would never give someone a shot or do any procedure on them without their consent. Word minister any medical. All that all that I took. Now I'm not with Charlie. Would Charlie agree to that? That statement you just made. Well, that says a parent. I'm talking as a doctor.

I don't think she's ever considered to do it. There was one one question. This is a little different than some of these others. but in relation to COVID, paranoid and Pennsylvania, which I appreciate that, asked if the, is, I get my flu shot every year, but this year I'm worried about COVID-19, is there any risk to getting the flu shot and does it lower your immune system at all? Mm, interesting.

If I got the flu shot while I was infected with COVID, would that make symptoms worse? These questions. You might take a shot at this one. Sure, I don't know. I don that make symptoms worse? These questions. You may take a shot at this one. Sure. I don't know. I don't know why you let me try. Obviously I was going to have an answer to that.

I'm going to try to be honest about it. So here's the thing. First of all, there is no vaccines, flu vaccine, all vaccines, do not lower your immune system. They in no way make you more susceptible to other infections. So don't worry about that. Getting the flu shot does not mean your immune system is now more likely to not protect you in any way.

That doesn't happen. It simply encourages your immune system to create antibodies to the flu. That's what it does. It's not too busy doing that, that it can't protect against others. Now you're just protected against something else. So there is no risk in terms of will you get coronavirus if you get the flu shot, like will you be more likely or more susceptible or get sick or no, there is no connection to that. And I think that's important to say, because way back in January of this year, which I think was about 37 years ago, 38 years ago, is that when January occurred? Something like that. Yeah.

Is at least several decades ago. There was some talk that the there was a there was a study that suggested the flu vaccine made you more likely to get other coronaviruses, not this one, not COVID, but other ones. And that created a lot of concern. This was a flawed study. It was completely dismantled and found to not be true. And there has been no evidence of that sense. So if you hear people quoting that, that has completely been disproven,

there is no risk that you will get something because you got the flu vaccine. It just doesn't work that way. So I would still recommend, and if you got your flu vaccine while you happen to have COVID, one, if you're sick, we usually recommend you wait till you're better to get the flu vaccine. Well, have the second time you've advocated waiting.

Who are you? No, I mean, if you're having fevers and cough and chills and stuff, just wait till you're not and then go get your flu vaccine. We recommend that anyway. But two, even if you did for some reason, it wouldn't make your symptoms worse. No. So there is no danger. There's no interaction there between those things. So, I just, I thought that was a concern a lot, too, that I noticed.

And I've got to hear more about the flu shot. Please, don't keep me in suspense. There's got to be more for me to shoot. I will. I'm going to move away from COVID and talk about some general flu shot concerns. But first, let's go to the billing department. Let's go. All right.

So we haven't found a crack in this flu shot yet, but I'm sure somewhere it's going to trip up. And that's when I'll get it. That's when you'll get the flu? No, that's when I'll like book them. You know what I mean? Oh, okay. I got you. I haven't found the chink in its armor yet,

but I'm sure somewhere. So one question we got, which I think is important to cover is like general flu vaccine questions. Eli asked, is it the kind of vaccine where you can still get a less severe case while vaccinated than you would have gotten without the vaccine? Or flu cases after vaccination always do a different strain.

So this is good to know about the flu vaccine. The way we make it is, and this is a general answer to a lot of questions we got. The way that the flu vaccine is produced, there are, I think it's in 113 different countries all over the world. There are scientists and labs whose job it is to monitor the flu all year long. When people come in and they might have the flu and they test and they have the flu, they monitor what strains, what strains of flu are circulating all over the planet. Constantly this information is being collected. And what they do with this information is start to come up with a plan for what strains seem to be most prominent for the upcoming year. So they're not talking about

the strains that dominated last year. Because that was another concern. Like, isn't it always a year behind? No, it's not a year behind. They're looking at the way the viruses are drifting and shifting to the future. They're like the anareps that are going into the indie music clubs to try to find the artists of tomorrow, the hit artists before other people find them. They're like mavens.

Like Paul Rudd in... Knocked up. Yes, they're looking for tomorrow. And so the legends of tomorrow. Yes, so they start seeing the direction that things are heading, what viruses they are finding, exactly which strains of viruses. Yes, that are trending.

And twice a year, there are giant consortiums. One is for in February, they come up with the one for the Northern Hemisphere. And in September, they come up with the one for the Southern Hemisphere. Because it's different. I didn't know. It's different, depends on which strains are,

when their flu season happens. So depends on which strains are going to circulate for your specific flu season and your hemisphere. And they decide on the viruses that we need to put protection against in the flu vaccine. And then they ship those to the companies that make the vaccines who are already ready with everything all prepared to go. They just need the right virus to plug in there. They make what's called a vaccine virus, which is like the killed virus form, right? Like the one that's not going to make you sick. And they start producing them either in eggs or in a cell line, depends on which vaccine

they're making, and they produce a ton of flu vaccine and send it out there. Now, because of that, the flu vaccine will protect you, whether it's trivalent, meaning three strains or quadrivalent, meaning four strains against four, usually four strains of flu, 2A to B. If you get another strain of flu, it will not protect you again completely against that one. You can still get it, right? You can still get sick. But what we've found is that if you get your flu vaccine, even if you do get the flu, you tend to not get a sick,

as you may have if you had not gotten the vaccine. You get an attenuated form of the flu. There you go. Because the other thing about the flu is, while there are other strains, even if you get the flu vaccine, that doesn't 100% of the time mean that you won't get the flu. You could still get one of the strains that the vaccine prevents.

What's the point? Because you won't get a sick, and maybe you don't get a sick, so one, you don't have to, I mean, you don't have to feel as bad, which would be the number one benefit to you, right? Like, I don't feel as bad. And two, you don't end up in the hospital. And again, we go back to overwhelming hospital system that is already pretty strained. So it's still worthwhile to get the flu vaccine. Even if you start hearing,

I always love those whispers that they always, that usually is around December, people start going, why I heard that it's not very good this year. Well, I heard, well, I heard it's only this percent effective. Well, I heard, well, it's still worth getting. It's still worth getting. It's still worth getting.

More than 0%, which is what it would be if you don't get it. I like this question. Courtney asked, you know, there's a nasal spray flu vaccine that you can get. Oh, really? Try to be excited. And if somebody were to sneeze immediately after taking it, would they need to get it again?

Yes, but the person giving it to them would be protected, double protected against the flu. No, it is, you absorb enough of it and it goes down the back, you're throughout and everything immediately. We actually sneezing after you get it is not uncommon. It's just, you know, we're squirting something up your nose. So that's okay. You don't need to get another one.

You will have absorbed enough of it, so no problems there. Yeah, there is a nasal spray flu shot. It is available. You have to be two and up, believe it, to 50 to get the nasal spray. It is not for everybody. There are some reasons depending on if you have other chronic illnesses and things that maybe it isn't the best choice for you, but you can always talk to them about talk to the person giving it to you about which one is right for you. But that is something that is available to some people between the ages of two and 50.

A lot of questions about reactions. Steven asked, I get my flu shot every year. This year, however, I had a bad reaction. I got fever, chills, dizziness. And he wants to know if he should tell people. Here's the thing, there is a vaccine adverse event reporting system, but it's really usually for things that are not expected. All these things that you've listed can happen after a flu vaccine. Most of the time they don't, but you can

get a fever, you can get chills, you can get body aches, you can feel dizzy. These things can happen. Most commonly, most people will just get some redness or soreness at the injection site. That is by far the most common side effect, if you will, of the flu vaccine. At this point, I'd welcome the variety, honestly. At this point, I'd welcome the variety, honestly. And that, I know it's uncomfortable. I know it's unpleasant. And certainly, I would never encourage anyone. If someone feels like they need to tell their doctor about something, please go do.

You know, please go talk to them about it. If you have concerns, always do. I'm never going to discourage you from doing so. But I would say that just because you have this reaction, one, it doesn't mean that I know there was concern about your mom getting the flu shot. There's no reason to assume your mom would have the same reaction or two that you will next year.

It just happens sometimes after the flu shot. Let's see, there's a question. Can you get the flu shot and the various cello vaccine in the same week? Yes. What's the first cello? Check a box. Oh, okay. Yeah.

That's fine to do. I'm saving. What else? We've covered some of do. I'm saving. What else? We've covered some of these. I wonder if it'll be a problem for people if they have those flu shot reactions. I don't, I worry that it could be a mistake like if that could be a false sign of COVID,

like you'd worry that you got COVID or the inverse, you know, like you would get COVID and just chalkin' up to flu shot reaction. This is a really good point that you bring up and probably even a good reason, as I said, if you're ever concerned about something and think you might want to discuss it with your doctor, go do it is, and this, you know, I'll go ahead and address this issue. I know that these were some questions about, can you get the flu from the flu vaccine?

Do you know the answer to that Justin? No, you cannot. That's right. It's a kill virus. No, you cannot get the flu from the flu vaccine period. No, you cannot. You can get those symptoms that you just mentioned. They are usually fairly short lived, you know, a day or two the most, and people are not hospitalized with them. You do not get the flu from them. So they are far preferable to the flu itself. But a lot of people will then say, well, it seems like I get sick whenever I get the flu vaccine.

Well, what it probably is is either one, you got exposed to something right around the same time. You got the flu vaccine. It's a season for it. Or two, you got exposed to something in the two weeks after you got the flu vaccine while your body is still creating all those antibodies. It's not like when you get the vaccine, you instantly are chock full of antibodies. They don't just like poof up here. Your body's got to make them. And so what we usually say is from the time you get the flu vaccine until

two weeks later, you're still susceptible because your body's reacting. It's producing the antibodies. So in that two week period, you could easily get exposed to something. It's the season when we get everything. So there's the flu, but there's also millions of other viruses that you could get that are flu-like. All that being said, I haven't been second six months. It's been- Well, many have. That being said, I haven't been second six months. It's been held. But in this time of COVID, if you have symptoms, I wouldn't assume it was the flu vaccine. If you are reassured that it is the flu vaccine,

that is fair, that I wouldn't pause like, well, but are you sure can the flu vaccine give me a fever? Yeah, I mean, occasionally, rarely it does. But if you're concerned, please go get checked out because you yeah, you could get COVID. That is a good point. Another side effect question that we got a lot of was syncopy passing out after a flu vaccine. Hannah asked, do you have any advice about fainting during an injection or leaving needle, fainting related anxiousness, that kind of thing. Similarly, Laurie said that they were

worried they didn't want to get it while they were away at college where they didn't have somebody with them because they so frequently pass out. If you are somebody who tends to pass out when you get injections, which- Then I welcome help you. That is not, again, I don't want to say that's a common reaction, but that is something that can happen. There are, and it has nothing to do with the flu vaccine. Traditionally, it's just needles, just vaccines.

If that is, if that is the case for you, first of all, tell the person giving you the shot first. Yeah. And this would be a good reason. I should not be standing right now. Why are we doing this while I'm standing? Right. I'm going to sit down. Yeah. And like in a chair, as opposed to maybe like perched

up on the doctor table, you know, like your examined, examining table like, maybe lay down. Let them know. That means after you get the vaccine, they can like give you a little bit of time before they, you know, say, okay, you're done. Take off. If you're prepared for it, if you can do it in your doctor's office as opposed to like, I have advocated for a tent outside the health department. If you can, that's probably an easier environment, right? It's calming. You know the people, you might know your doc

who's giving it to you or the nurse or whoever. And, you know, I could see where like that might be easier. Make sure you're hydrated ahead of time. Make sure you've eaten beforehand. All those good things to like, if you have other techniques of dealing with anxiety, those would be helpful. If you have breathing techniques or ways to like,

Justin, you have those sorts of... Yeah, but weirdly mine is acupuncture, so I'm not sure that it would be the best. And ultimately, I would not want to delay a flu shot all the way until November, just to have somebody there with you. I would say it's still better to get it sooner rather than later. Maybe you can take a friend or just let him know. Just let him know before they give you the shot. Hey, this happens.

Can you help me? Because our job, our job as healthcare providers is to provide you healthcare. And that means if you're anxious or if you know you're gonna pass out, you fear or you know you're gonna pass out, we should be able to help you through that occurrence. So I would not wait, if it all possible, I wouldn't wait.

There was, Maddie asked, can you get the flu shot if you're pregnant? Not only can you, but you should. Please do. The flu tends to be worse in pregnant people. And the flu is very bad for newborns. So you protect yourself. If you are a pregnant person, getting your flu shot protects you from getting very sick

from the flu. And if you're towards the, you know, the time to deliver the baby and you get the flu and then pass it on to the baby, that's very bad for the newborn. So please, yes, the recommendation is very strongly that pregnant people should get their flu vaccines. There was some concern, vexed on vaccines in Buffalo wanted to know if you got the flu shot that had a live virus in it, they're talking about the nasal spray and you have somebody immunocompromised in your house. That'd be a problem. No, it's not a problem. Get whatever flu, get whatever flu vaccine works for you, whatever is appropriate for your age and health conditions and is available immediately in front

of you. Get it. It's fine. That is all fine. I liked this question. Adrian asked to get because there are a lot of pharmacies that offer you gift cards. If you get your flu shot, what would happen if you went back over and over again to get? Just keep getting flu shots. Well, your insurance would stop you, first of all. It's sad that it's about money, but they don't want to pay. This one's specifically case. I think it's okay. I don't, I mean, your flu shot grip. It's a tough question. I don't, my initial inclination is like, if you got two flu shots,

nothing bad would happen. I mean, there's no, there's no reason to think anything bad would happen other than like you've used up a flu shot that you didn't need. Your arm is going to hurt again. That's it. What you got 17? I don't know the answer. I don't know if anyone's done that study. Why would you? My thought is it wouldn't matter. I mean, my thought is like it's not going to matter if you do. Um, it's just not like just don't. Just don't. Like let's not try it. How about that?

Just don't get this don't do it. that. Kim wanted to know about egg white allergies. Her daughter tested highly allergic for egg whites. Can she still get a flu shot? Yes. If you are allergic to eggs, you can still get the flu shot. Here are the recommendations. If you have a mild... Jaxi and Zookas were talking to you.

If you... Okay. If you can eat eggs if they're slightly cooked, then there's nothing to worry about. You're fine. I saw that breakdown. People who can't eat some eggs, but can eat slightly cooked, then there's nothing to worry about. You're fine. I saw that breakdown. People who can't eat some eggs, but can eat slightly cooked, I don't know, you can't eat raw eggs.

Anyway, you're fine. If you have a mild allergy to eggs, meaning you get like hives, you're fine. If you have a severe allergy to eggs, like you've required an epipin, you have anaphylaxis, that kind of thing, you can still get the flu shot, whatever flu shot, you can still get it. We just recommend that if that's you, you get it somewhere where there is like a physician

who can take care of you. So as opposed to the tent outside the health department or the pharmacy, get it at your doctor's office. That's the only change. That's the only change. And not also at an angstore because that's taking a risk that you do not need to do. There are vaccines that are made in cell lines, mammalian cell lines as opposed to eggs,

and so therefore they are egg-free vaccines. And if you have that readily available to you, sure. But if you don't still get the other vaccine, just do it in a doctor's office. That is the recommendation. Why, why, the precaution, you can be honest a doctor's office. That is the recommendation. Why, why, why the precaution? You can be honest. In case you have an allergic reaction.

Okay. They are exceedingly rare and they are not a contraindication to getting the flu vaccine, but just in case, why not be somewhere where they can then manage that allergic reaction as opposed to, you know, the pharmacy? Got it. Where they may not, I'm not saying they couldn't, but they won't, they won't be prepared for it the way

we are in like a medical facility The benefits still outweigh the risks got it is the point okay other questions Logan was concerned about the swine flu vaccine of 1976 had a higher rate of Guillain-Barré syndrome you've heard of Guillain-Barré we've talked about that before so How do you handle hesitancy the results from that? before. So how do you handle hesitancy that results from that? First of all, we have not seen that echoed since that specific swine flu vaccine of 1976. We have not seen that that strong connection between the swine flu and this particular bad complication from it or vaccine in this complication. So what I would tell people is unless you have had Guillain-Barre syndrome within six weeks

of receiving a flu vaccine, you don't need to worry about it. You can get it. Okay. Again, benefits far outweigh the risks. If someone had an allergic reaction to last year's flu shot, should they get this year's ash, you have asked the one reason why you shouldn't get a flu shot. New would find it. If you are allergic to the flu shot, don't get a flu shot.

That is the one reason you're allergic to the flu shot. You should not get a flu shot. Also, if you're less than six months old, we also do not give them under six months old. So if you are less than six months or you are allergic to the flu shot, do not give them under six months old. So if you are- Thank you so much for listening, though. We so appreciate you. Less than six months, or you are allergic to the flu shot, do not get a flu shot. Which is, like, people can flate that, I think,

with the egg allergy. You can be allergic to eggs and still get a flu shot. But if you're allergic to the flu shot, do not get the flu shot. I thought this was an interesting question. Rachel asked, why do we inject the vaccine into your arm muscle instead of an IV? Because the IV you got in front of the pain? The biggest, I would say, I had to look into the history of this.

How did we get into this? The biggest reason is simply logistics. It's really easy to give an intramuscular and I.M. injection. It's a lot harder to find. You have to know how to find the, it's not hard, but you have no how to do it. So ease of administration, if we're doing a ton of them, it's way easier to put it in a muscle. The history of this is interesting. We used to give vaccines, the early vaccines we'd give were through the skin, right? We would kind of like scarification, cut the skin to insert it into the skin.

When we started adding adjuvents, which are things that aren't the virus or bacteria that you put in a vaccine to make it get your immune system to work. The microchips. There are no microchips in vaccines. When we started adding these adjuvents, which are harmless things that help you build up

a strong immune response, those actually are very uncomfortable to insert into the skin the way that we used to do it. So they started putting it in the muscle for tolerance, so that you could tolerate the vaccine better. But yeah, that's why we don't put it in the eye. It's an ease of administration is the number one, number one thing.

If you are really interested in this, read about the whole depot effect. There was an idea that you could like put it there and it would slowly release over time, the depot idea. That probably is not true. Almost certainly is not true, but that's okay, it doesn't need to do that. But that was part of the thought process behind it.

Let's see, I'm 24, I've never gotten a flu vaccine. K wanted to know, is this, is it going to be worse? What are the side effects? And is it going to be worse since I've never gotten one? Probably not. There's no reason to think that if you've never gotten one, the side effects, or that there's any problem

with waiting later in life, like if you haven't gotten one as a kid, would it be harder as an adult? No, no, there, no concerns about that. The side effects, as I've said, most commonly, are some soreness, pain, redness at the injection site. You can get some mild fever's chills, body aches, that kind of thing, rare cases, people pass out or feel dizzy.

That's it. Those are the common side effects from the flu vaccine. Okay, go get your flu vaccine this year. Send a picture. Somebody had a specific question about there was a paper published about the H1N1 vaccine. Here it is, Matt asked it, possibly playing a role in miscarriages. I thought this was useful to represent an idea in science that I think the flu vaccine illustrates very well. So there was this study that came out that suggested that perhaps people who got the H1N1 vaccine

had a slightly higher rate of miscarriages than patients who didn't. What happens when something like that, when we get a piece of data like that, like here's a study that shows this thing. One of the first things that we have to do is scientists, other than like look and see that the study was done well and all those kinds of things, is replicate it. Okay, well let's look at more people. Let's expand it further. Let's check out even more before we say this is 100% true because this would be a major thing. If

we thought that vaccines did this, we know how devastating the flu can be for a pregnant person to get the flu. So all of a sudden to reverse that recommendation, we could cause a lot of harm if we're wrong. So they expanded that research and found that this connection is not there. For whatever reason, sometimes in a study, what we find is chance. We try to control for that, but then if we replicate it 30 times and the other 30 studies say no, then that one was wrong. And that happens in science. So I think it's really important to know, first of all, there is no evidence that getting

the flu vaccine, H1 in one or otherwise, causes a higher rate of miscarriage and pregnant people absolutely need to get the flu vaccine. They are at higher risk for severe complications from the flu and so are the newborns that will eventually arrive. So please, please, if you are pregnant or if you are with a pregnant person who's wavering and then everyone around them should get the flu vaccine too. Yeah, I wish you get the flu vaccine. I guess we're gonna say I'm a little bit allergic

to the flu vaccine as we've covered. Yes, one, that was another question we had. If I'm a healthy person and I get the flu vaccine, am I taking that vaccine from someone else? You need to. They're like Doritos. Most places, they call you want, they'll make more. Most places produce more than what they say is uptake. They're uptake rate,

meaning how many people actually get them. Most countries have way more. Last year we had extras. I know because I got to take advantage of those extras and use them at the day shelter that I volunteer at. So, like give them two people. So, a lot of years we have extras. So, no, you are not taking it from a healthy person, or from an unhealthy person that needs it more. Last thing, dosing. Did you know there are different doses of flu vaccine? No.

That doesn't make any sense. Meg asked, I've heard there is a bigger dose of flu vaccine for heavier folks. And that is not, there is a higher dose, but it is not a weight-based issue. It is an age-based dose. A man like myself in the prime of his life, a man like me, I need a big dose to keep me safe, because I'm an old experienced grizzled.

No. As Laura pointed out, the pharmacist said they only had the high doses for people 65 and older and that is correct the higher dose vaccines Of which there are not many. I think there's only one in the US is that hurry up old people get it get there quick Oh my god, it's hunger games for the old people. It is only one flu vaccine guys. It is only for 65 over That's upstairs. I got to call him It is only for 65. That's a serious, I got to call him. The idea behind it is that there have been some studies that have suggested that as we get older, we are not able to create the robust immune response to a vaccine like we are when we're younger, that those, we don't create maybe as many antibodies and they don't last

as long. So the thought was a higher dose vaccine could create a more robust immune response and protect you more and longer. What we found is that there is some truth to this. Some studies looking at these high dose vaccines versus the standard dose vaccines did see some benefits in terms of lower rates of hospitalization from the flu and lower rates of getting the flu. So these may either the high dose or there's actually one that contains an adjuvant as we talked about that can stimulate a stronger immune response. They're only for 65 and older, so Zoe asked if

their fiance who has severe asthma could get it, only if they're 65 or older. Nobody else is, you just can't, it's not. We have to test it in age groups before we can say we can give it to them. This has only been targeted to 65 and older. But the important thing to remember, if you are 65 and older, or if you have someone around you who's 65 and older, don't hold out for the high dose vaccine. There are only so many of these in their only certain places. If the place you're getting your vaccine doesn't have that one,

get the standard one. No one is recommending that there is no organization that currently recommends that seniors, people over 65, hold out on the vaccine just to get that one. If it's there, if it's available, yeah, go for it. We have some evidence that it might be better, worst case scenario, it's just as good. But please do not hold out for that and delay your opportunity to get the flu vaccine because the flu is worse in older people.

And- Okay, first it was worse in babies, not worse in older people. Can, first it was worse in babies, now it's worse in older people. Can you get your stories straight? It's both. Whoa, look at 39 looking pretty good right now. So dead center. Did I cut, was there anything you think I didn't talk about?

It seems impossible, but if there is, if you want more information, you have answers that you are still in need of, we would humbly point you towards immunize.org. It's the website for the Immunization Action Coalition. If you want to support their, there's tons of information on their website. If you want to support their fine work, you can donate directly to them there or you can go to McElroyMarch.com and we've got a ProVax enamel pin and our vaccine t-shirt both of which all the profits for

that go to the immunization action coalition. So did you think Dr. Debra? Thank you Dr. Debra. Dr. Debra Waxler who asked us she is our good friend who works with the flu shot. She's to, she very, very politely reminds us how important this talk to her. Talk to her, she never reminds us, and then we remind you. Yeah, good, that's how it works. And then you remind your mom and dad.

She's wonderful, she works with the Immunization Action Coalition. And she asks that we do another episode addressing the flu shot. And I think she's right, we cannot say it too much, especially this year. Yeah. Please, it's always important, it's important every year to get your flu vaccine,

but especially this year, protect yourself every way you can, protect your community, protect your hospital systems that are made up of healthcare workers who are already strained, already working, probably without the resources that they need. And if we can prevent overtaxing that system, it's not just good for all of them. This is not selfish.

It's good for you. It's good for your neighbors. It's good for your family. It's good for the kids who go to school, for the people who are nursing homes in your area. All those people that... Okay, said we get it. The flu shot is great.

I should get it. I think our listeners probably wear masks, like they're supposed to. And I think that that's because they're people who got really early, that this isn't just about them, it's about everybody around them. And so they're happy to wear a mask to protect everyone around them. The flu vaccine is just like that. It's just like that. It's not just for you. It is for you, but it's also for everybody around you. And I believe that our listeners are the kind of good people who do that. To go for it. People sometimes tweet,

picks it out as after they get their shot. That's great. If you want to do that, we're at saw bones on Twitter. you can follow us there. Thank you so much to the taxpayers for these their song medicines as the intro and outro for our program. Thanks to the maximum fun network for having us at part of their extended podcast and family. And thanks to you for listening.

We really appreciate it. Go get your flu shot right now and help do some good, you know? Good to do a little bit of that. Yeah, and be sure. Where are your masks, of course. Where are my mask, of course. Be sure to draw this again next week for Saban

so until my name is Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. Alright! Maximumfun.org Comedy and Culture Artist-Oant? Audience-supported Hello, there ghouls and gals, it is I, April Woolf. I'm here to take you through the twisty, scary, heart-pounding world. and supported. favorite genre film. Listen in closely to hear past guests like the Babaduk director,

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