Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Aah, Real Monsters!

Episode Date: October 1, 2015

This week on Sawbones, Sydnee and guest star Rileigh Smirl introduce you to the diseases at the root of some monsters myths. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, of misguided medicine. I'm your coho Sydney, McAroy and I'm your other coho's Riley smirral

So you may have noticed this isn't Justin. Sorry again You don't have to say you're sorry. They like me better anyway. Well, they like me better. That's fair. They do they do like you better so as you may be aware It is well it was probably by the time you're listening to this National podcast day A very important holiday for those of us who in part make our living podcasting and of course Because it is America's,

I would say biggest holiday? Biggest holiday. Bigger than Christmas, bigger than Labor Day. I, the two big ones, Christmas and Labor Day. Only bigger, only topped by National Podcast Day. And as a result, of course, all the youth of America are assigned to a podcaster. You should know about this. Your kids were assigned to a podcaster. You should know about this.

Your kids were assigned to a podcaster. To learn from, to shadow, then take your podcast, pertejet, to work day, so to speak. Because that's what we're all being taught how to do now, I guess, is just be podcasters. Listen, if you're not, it's a cool gig. It's a ton of fun.

Where am I PJs? Drinking some hot chocolate, and we're just talking about medicine. It's great, it's great. And there are kinds of awesome people who listen to your show. Anyway, well, later when we're not recording a show, I'll tell Riley about how wonderful the life

of a podcaster is. As if I haven't heard enough about it already. I've been trying to talk her out of being an actual doctor and just talking about doctor e-things on a podcast instead. And calling myself a doctor. Like, hey, I'm the doctor. Listen to this. The only thing better than that would be just to be Doc McStuffins if you can swing that. I'm not a cartoon character and I don't take care of animals.

And this isn't Disney Jr. Close enough. So Riley was lucky enough to be assigned to me on National Park. You don't think? I mean, I was kind of forced to be assigned to me on National Park, and you don't think? I mean, I was kind of forced into being assigned to you. I think it's an honor and a privilege.

You weren't cool enough, I guess, to be assigned to WTF with Mark Maron. And you weren't strange enough to be assigned a night veil. That was the one I was really aiming for. Either night veil or Mabin Dam. Apparently I wasn't brother enough to get into Mabin Dam. Mabin Dam, I wasn't weird enough to get into night veil. Listen, what you should have done,

if you'd had more force, you should have just gotten into cereal because that's really where the money is gonna go. So anyway, I'll quit naming podcasts that teen girls don't listen to. So no, Riley got stuck with me. So she's here in place of Justin who I don't know, he's somewhere else. I would say I'm sorry, but I know you like me better. So you're welcome. He's too busy. I'm assuming that someone has been assigned to shadow him.

Oh gosh. Probably someone really weird. Yeah. He got the bad end of the deal. Sydney got me. I bet there was a huge line though for people who wanted to shadow adventure zone. Oh, I'm sure. I mean, I was on that list too, but this is like my fifth choice.

Thanks. Good. Great. So since you're here shadowing me reluctantly, I thought that I would let you pick, you know, our topic. What do you want me to teach you about with all of my podcasting and medical wisdom? So Sydney, since just a few hours here, probably it has been when everyone's listening to this, things are gonna start getting spooky.

It's gonna be October. That's right. Months of Spooks and Scares and Haunted Houses and Candy. So tell me all about the Halloween diseases. The Halloween diseases? You know, the ones you can only get on Halloween. The ones that are all about being spoopy and being scary and you can only get them on October 31st. I don't um, who told you that there were Halloween diseases? We learned all about

them in podcasting school. Is that what mom told you would happen if you ate all your candy on Halloween? Maybe. Is Halloween disease the thing where you were afraid of your neighbor putting a razor blade in your apple? No, Halloween disease. The one where it's like I turn to a vampire or I turn to a werewolf. I like everyone thinks I'm a witch. I gotcha. Okay. So just to clarify, do you actually believe that there is a medical condition that will turn you into a werewolf? Sydney, that's why I asked you the question.

Okay, you don't know. Okay. So I just need to fill in this gap in your mouth. I'm like 90% sure there's a disease that you get that turns you into a werewolf, that you only turn into a werewolf when there is a full moon, you cannot control yourself. And like all teenage girls, I'm assuming that you desperately hope there is a disease that turns you into a vampire because there are just so many cool teen vampires out there. Because then someone like John Green would write a novel about me.

But do you write a vampire novel? Teen Girl Vampire number four. I didn't know you wrote about vampires too. Everybody writes about everything. Yeah, everything teen girls love. Well Riley, I don't know that I can grant your wish and tell you that there are actual causes of like real life where wolves and vampires and whatnot. But throughout history, we have had a lot of diseases that have probably contributed to these myths

to what we think of as vampires and werewolves and witches. So I think maybe that would, would that like? I mean, I don't appreciate calling them myths because they're actual factual, everything is satisfactual. How long is this? Well, let's just go through, we'll go through these. I think this will slake your thirst for blood-d diseases. For blood, because I also have the Empire Disease.

Okay. Happy Halloween! Do you sparkle in the sunlight? Don't tell anybody. Okay, that's cool. So there are a lot of these myths of different, we're gonna mainly talk about werewolves and vampires, and I'm gonna talk a little bit about witches,

but these myths have been perpetuated throughout the years by, I don't know, we don't really know, right? This is all just medical historians and people looking back and going, why do we think there are werewolves? Perhaps it was because we didn't understand this. So these are the most common theories as to why we why think these kinds of things exist. And it's usually diseases or disorders that have a lot of kind of unusual or just different like a lot of different

systems of the body might be affected by one thing. And something that we may not have easily been able to understand hundreds and hundreds of years ago. Right, because everyone was talking about the hip-new Halloween diseases. It was the first time anyone had ever talked about and I'm sorry, I thought they were real.

And that you're crushing their dreams back in, you know, the 16th century. These time traveling people from the 16th century. They're listening to our podcast right now, Sydney, and you're making them really sad. It's October, the spupiest month of the whole year, and you're making them sad. I appreciate that.

I think you're saying spupi. And I'm going to insist that you continue saying that. That's what the word is. Spupi, S-P-O-O-P-Y. Spupi, sp-o-o-p-y. Spupi. So our first spupi disease is lycanthropy. Lycanthropy is also the word that you could use to just refer to the idea of a werewolf, like lycan referring

to wolves and the cons, like you could say, in a world where there really are wear wolves, like in this world. Right, and of course, in the real world, where there are wear wolves, like inthropies, like the existence of the fact that there are wear wolves. But it is also in reference to a psychiatric disorder, which is basically the delusion that you are like a wolf. Does everyone get that around Halloween? Do you believe you're a wolf? Don't you?

No? Oh, oh, oh! I'm sorry, I can't help it. Lichenthropy is, it's related, it can be like part of another psychotic disorder, something like schizophrenia, or it can be just a fixed delusional unto itself that you think you're some kind of beast or animal or creature, and then most famously would be a wolf just in this context,

but I mean, it doesn't have to be a wolf. It could be any kind of animal. The one of the most famous cases that I read about was from 1589, so this is like, and that's why I think this probably perpetuated the werewolf myth because it's been written about for a really long time. That's pretty simple to understand why somebody would be confused because if you have this delusion,

then you would go up to someone and say, hi, did you know I'm a werewolf? I do that every day. I'll get to random person on the hallway at school. Hey, did you know I'm a werewolf? Great, bye. How many of those people do you think like percentage wise? Do you think believe you? Pretty sure about 92% You know the other 8% is kind of go well third time I've heard that today. Just gonna keep walking. That's what high school is like now I would say that in 1589, if you started telling people

that you're aware of, you may have had a lot of people, maybe 100% of people who actually, even then didn't believe you on some level went, well, maybe, I don't know, possibly. Yeah, aren't we all? Perhaps you are. So he, in his delusion claim that he had a belt made of Wolfskin that if he wore would then turn him into a wolf.

Cindy, I have one question about this whole thing and it is where can I get that belt? Well, I think you have to go to Germany. Can I get it on eBay? You can get everything on eBay, right? Find me this belt right now. Look at Peter Stubbs Wolfskin belt, Magical Wolfskin belt as soon as we're done. But he also claimed in addition to having this belt, he also claimed that he had killed and eaten like 25 people. Now the sad part, so this is the sad

parts, this isn't funny here. The sad part of this is that I mean, he probably hadn't, right? Like this is probably part of his delusion is that he probably never did anything wrong. But this was the time before. Unfortunately, we didn't understand this kind of thing. So he was tortured until he confessed to all the confess to all of these probably fictional crimes that he'd committed. He was then beheaded and burned at the stake on Halloween on Halloween on Halloween in 1589 Spoopiest of all spooky which sounds like like this sounds like the beginning of a really scary movie by the way It I bet it is I bet that's the beginning of This would be a great yes

I was scared maybe. This would be a great yes. A horror day Halloween, the Spupi Extravaganza. But a really sad story in highlights, a lot of people, Riley, you probably don't know this. A lot of people ask us on the show to talk about mental illness and psychiatric diseases. And we don't very often because a lot of it gets to, it's just kind of sad and it's like we like to be funny

in light and we like to poke fun at things. And this of course was a very sad thing because this guy probably had a psychiatric disease and it wasn't recognized. And you see a lot of that, like people who had these kinds of delusions and especially in the context of like that was something people were afraid of, so that may be the way your delusion manifested, something like you're aware of for you are a witch, then because people didn't have a good understanding of mental illness, then you would have been persecuted as such.

And they were actually, you know, you've probably heard about like witches being burned at the stake throughout history. Yeah. Do you know a lot of people were for being werewolves? Really? Yes. Same idea though. They were, I mean, they weren't werewolves. They were just people who had some sort of illness that led them to look or actor think or believe they were a werewolf and... But City, what if they were?

What if they were actually werewolves? These people back in the 16th century had cracked the case. They figured it out, but no one believed them because it was the 16th century, and now we're just totally blind to the fact that where wolves do exist. I feel like there's probably like a whole internet group who would agree with you on this. Oh, I mean, yeah. I'm the leader of this internet group. Oh, okay.

Another cause of some unusual behavior throughout history is ergot poisoning. Now this ergot is a fungus and it grows on grain. And especially like if grains are like, you know, if you harvested a bunch of grain and like put it in a big pile and a silo or whatever. And then it got damp. That is a perfect setup for growing this fungus. And the problem is that people didn't understand this, so they would use this grain to make bread, and they would eat it. Well, that's not good. No, because now you're eating this, this urgot.

The Greeks actually understood that there was something special about it, because they would, like, there were some ceremonies where they would advise you drink a little bit of it before you could visit certain temples. So the Greek people told you, hey, drink this mushroom, you're going to feel great before you go to church. But more or less that's what it was. Yes. It was a way to, you know, get you into the right, like, groove. Get ready to do some praising and some blazing on this much.

Hahaha. There were two strains. There were two strains. One strain of this fungus, unfortunately, caused something that was called St. Anthony's Fire. And this had nothing to do with hallucinations. This was a kind of gangrene where you could like lose your limbs because it made your blood vessels constrict, get real tight, and cut off blood flow.

And the only thing really famous about it is that it was called St. Anthony's Fire because there was a hospital where everybody went to back in the 1100s to get care for it and it was the patron saint with St. Anthony. But the more famous strain of this caused more of a central nervous system problem. So it would act on your system kind of like a drug that I'm certain you have never heard of Riley called LSD. What is it again? LSD. That's good. That's great. You've never heard of LSD. Oh, you mean ecstasy. No, it was a little different. But still.

Similar idea. It's like something that would make you like a designer drug that makes you feel. Ready to go to church. Yeah, ready to go to church. It's exactly what LSD does. I don't know, I've never done LSD full disclosure. I don't know what it does.

I mean, I have like, I never does. Seriously, don't tell mom I've done LSD. Okay. I don't know what it does. I mean, I know what it does. Seriously, don't tell mom I've done it. Let's do. I really haven't. So this can cause hallucinations. It can cause you to have delusions of things like metamorphosis, thinking that you're turning into something else, like another creature. It can also cause some unpleasant things, like seizures, and vomiting, and diarrhea, and blindness, and deafness, so unfortunately it can kill you. But this again could be responsible for a lot of wear wolf myths or witches as well because a lot of people ate this bread and they would have these hallucinations and whatnot and kind of talk out of their head.

And there are some theories that this may be what was responsible for, have you heard of the Salem Witch Trials? I have. There's a theory that this is what was going on with those girls that were accused of being witches that maybe one had poisoning and so they began to accuse the other one of being a witch.

It's all connected. The werewolf disease, they were hallucinating that they were, but really the people who had this mushroom poisoning were hallucinating, who hallucinating the other people were. So everyone thought everyone was a werewolf all the time. Everybody was pretty confused for a while. It was a confusing time. It's now to be fair, this has been disputed because why everybody was eating this bread,

why did it only affect these young women? I don't know, that seems kind of weird, right? So it could have been something like more of like a mass-secogenic illness or just a really awful prank has been suggested. Like they accused this girl of being a witch and it was just like a really mean thing that some other girls did.

That's not even like funny. No. That's just like, come on. We're all just trying to be cool. We're all supposed to gather and go to church and feel great. And do LSD. Do LSD. Go to church, praise and blaze it.

But there is some thought that throughout history that because Urgot Poisoning has been a problem many times throughout the centuries Maybe that's been responsible for some weird behavior that has led people to believe in supernatural type things. I'd have to think somewhere along the way that was responsible for some sort of weird thing Sometimes it sounds like it right right now One disease I'm not really gonna go into because we did a whole show about it, but just to mention it is rabies, because I don't think you can talk about like we're wolf myths and not mention rabies.

Again, it's transmitted by the bite of a dog, which sounds, I mean, right? Like you become a werewolf by getting bitten by a werewolf, right? So, you get bitten by a dog, and then you get this awful illness that among other things that it does to you also makes you maybe hallucinate. You may kind of lose control of yourself,

bite other people as well. Zombies. Yes, it's also been tied into zombies it has. So maybe part of the werewolf origin story comes from observing people with rabies. I don't know. It fits. Sounds like it could be possible. For more on rabies, please listen to the Saul Bones episode. Oh believe me, I already have for my studies, for my podcast class. Good, I'm glad they're teaching you what matters.

So Riley, you probably want to hear about some more spooky diseases. I do! And I'm going to tell you about those right after we visit the billing department. The medicines, the medicines that ask you let my God before the mouth. So, Riley, I want to tell you about Porphyria. About what? Porphyria is a disorder that comes from the Greek word for purple. I like purple. I know purple is your nickname, right?

A little bit. Back in your tennis days? Back in them days. How did you get the nickname purple, by the way? It was around a very spoopy time of year. It's coming up on us quite fast. It was around Halloween. And I went to my first tennis practice wearing an entire purple track suit.

And my tennis coach called me the one-eyed, one-horned flying purple people eater. And then to shorten it, it was just purple. He really did you a favor in like, made you popular among the kids with that nickname. So popular. It's like, oh, you're purple. What is that stand for? Oh, you're a monster with one eye and a horn. Okay, bye. So, um, so maybe it said we can call you porphyria. I think that's kind of a mouthful. I think it is. It's also a disease

So like a disorder probably not a disease a disorder It is a genetic disorder in which you can't properly make something called heme. Now, you need heme. It's part of hemo-globin. You've probably heard of that. You need heme. You need heme. For your hemo-globin, we don't really say it that way.

It's just hemo-globin. I was highlighting the word heme. Carey is on hit. I didn't want you to think I actually say hemo-globin. Heme. Hemo-globin. Hemo-globin, Hee, hemoglobin. Hemoglobin of course is the part of your red blood cell

that carries oxygen. So it's, I mean pretty, pretty important. I mean if we didn't have them, we would just all be vampires. Well, we're getting there. Don't get ahead of yourself. Sorry. There are a bunch of different steps in it.

There's a pathway. Your body has a lot of different pathways that it goes through to make different substances that you need, right? And there are a bunch of steps in the pathway to create heme. And porphyria actually refers to kind of a constellation of different disorders that all result from different errors in that pathway. So it depends on where the problem is, kind of what step, that shows how this disease might manifest in a different patient,

and some types are more common than others. But in general, the idea is that you don't make enough of the heme that you need to create the hemoglobin molecule to carry oxygen to your body, which is a problem, because you don't have that. But then the other thing is that all the stuff because your pathway doesn't work, they're byproducts that build up. Oh, no.

Does that make sense? So like you're making something, and it turns into one thing, and then you've got to add something else to it to turn it into something else, and you've got to add something else to it to make it something else. Well, somewhere along that chain it gets stopped,

and it just keeps accumulating that thing where it got stopped. Okay. And you don't want all of that toxic byproduct. You need to break it down and you can't. So then you get sick. Yeah, you get sick in a variety of ways. Now Riley, I know I had asked you this earlier, you did not watch a lot of scrubs. I didn't.

Scrubs is one of my favorite medical TV shows I've mentioned this on the show before and I think it's one of the most realistic as well. And for all of you Scrubs fans out there, this is the thing where JD and Turk had the urine sample and they were supposed to figure out what was wrong with the patient and they accidentally left it outside in the sunlight and it turned purple.

And so then they Googled purple pee and they diagnosed the patient. I've never seen that show before in my life. I guarantee there are there at least 10 people right now who are like, oh, I know what they're I know what she's talking about. I promise. I'm not one of them. Okay, well, they matter more than you right now. Well, okay. I do like that. Bye everybody. So yes, that is one of the interesting, this is true about Porphyria. That's one of the interesting facets about it

is that your urine will turn like a purplish color in UV light in the sunlight. That seems like during the Halloween season, that'll be kind of a cool thing to do. Well, I will tell you that I diagnosed this once as a resident, and I was very excited when I took the urine sample and ran out front of the hospital and stood at the entrance to the hospital holding this cup of pee up to

the sun. And that was the moment that everyone around Sydney realized how cool it was. I took it, I, it turned a little purple that day. I took it home and put it in my window cell, poor Justin had to deal with it. You took a person's pee home. I just, it was, that, I was learning. Okay. All right. I brought it back to show how purple it got. I did. To show. Like replace it with lemonade. To show how purple it got.

It got really popular. Your cool doctor friends were like, oh my God, and he got to take home the pee. No, actually everybody kind of made fun of me before. Well, and this is okay. This is okay to joke about, because this is very treatable now. Now thank goodness we have treatments for this condition. As you can imagine for a long time,

we had no idea what was happening to people unlucky enough to have this, because you really have to understand the complex physiology to understand this disorder. Now we knew that there was something that was like a collection, we used to call it like a blood liver disorder, dating back to hypocritees,

who described this without knowing what was causing it. That wasn't until the mid to late 1800s that we started understanding hemoglobin, and then after that that we were able to actually define the illness. Famously, King George III had it, who was occasionally I think known as the Mad King, because it can create, among many, many different symptoms of this, it can create some hallucinations and delusions and kind of periods of time where you are not yourself, like psychosis.

So it's all cycling back to the werewolves? Exactly. And actually we're going to get into a little bit of vampire mythology here too. It's also been suggested by the way that maybe Van Gogh had this. So this is why there's a whole episode about Dr. Who about Vincent Van Gogh is because he had this Well, sort of yeah, I get it now. That's one of the best episodes of dark. Go watch it right now Please pause this episode of saw bones. Yeah

Watch that episode and come back and talk to me once you've watched it go watch the episode of Dr. Vincent it is it's amazing. Yeah, I would highly recommend it um In addition to some psychiatric problems and central nervous system problems, it can cause a lot of strange symptoms. You can be really sensitive to sunlight. Van buyers.

You can get these blisters on your skin and as they heal, they grow extra hair. Where wills? You can get other changes in your skin, like sores or discoloration, specifically like the skin around your mouth can stretch away and even your gums can recede, which will make your teeth appear much more prominent. So this is also zombies, this is also werewolves, and this is also vampires. It can well, yeah, because it can reveal like your insiders more.

like you're insiders more. You can lose parts of your body, your nose, your ears, your eyelids, your fingers. And patients with this may have a little bit of increased sensitivity to foods with a lot of sulfur in them. For example, garlic. You got it. Vampires, boom, case cracked. So there's been a lot of people who like to think about such things who've suggested that maybe this is the root of not the root, but contributes to both vampire and werewolf mythology.

It's like a two-in-one deal. Yeah, because you've got a couple different people who would suffer from this may unfortunately, not so much now again, because it's treatable, but back before we understood it, take on kind of another worldly appearance after a while from, you know, the different manifestations. And so maybe this was part of why, why we had these kinds of strange mythologies. That's why we have Edward and Jacob,

so you're all welcome. That's it. They just both have Porphyria. Right. We can treat that. They can, I mean, if they want to call me. But we don't want to anymore. But let me tell you, if Jacob wants to call me,

he can call me anytime. Listen, Justin's not on the show right now. All I'm saying is, I'm only offended because I'm team Edward. What? Are you kidding me? Sydney, we've had this conversation before. If that cute werewolf wants to come run it over here. I have an 38 page document that is an argument of essay on my computer right now.

That is explaining why Edward is better than Jacob and 38. He's kidding me when he's running around with just his jeans on and his shirt off and he's all outdoorsy. He smells like the woods. Does not the time to have this conversation. Okay, I just can't. Okay, we'll get into this later. Our last, our last disorder that I want to talk about is extremely rare, but probably

very obviously when I tell you about it, um, contributed to the werewolf myth throughout history. It's called congenital hypertricosis universalis. Say that in human please. It's also known as human werewolf syndrome. Okay, so werewolves. This is again, this is a very rare disorder where you just, I mean, you basically grow a lot of hair everywhere.

You can have it like a localized manifestation of it, so you just have a lot of hair everywhere. You can have it like a localized manifestation of it, so you just have a lot of hair in one or two places, or you can just have it everywhere. You're just, even your face, it's just everywhere. So, there's also where like, big foot came from. You know, that's really interesting, maybe. Maybe any kind of... That's the guy who had this disease with really big feet.

Maybe. Because we've known about this for a really long time. People have, when you think about like people who were like side show performers, like JoJo, the dog face man, Lionel, the lion face man, the wolf man, the bearded woman, they may have all, I mean, depending on which side show, which person, they may have been suffering from this We have documented cases of all of those people having this disorder. It's not very funny. No, well no It must be comedy Sydney. Well, sorry

The first known case by the way that we know of the of the states back to 1648 Petrus gone Salva so the Canary Islands And the only thing that's I think it, and it's just interesting about that, is if you look at, like, you can Google him because they're like family portraits, because several other people in his family had this. And they're these very, like, you know, there's like, old, like, really stoic-looking portraits

of people. I know exactly, you know what I can't say. Where they're looking just really serious, and they're dressed like- It's like a little old portrait, ever. Yes, and they're dressed like very, you know. Very fun, sir. Yeah, very fancy and they're just kind of,

and you know, they must have stood there for like ever. Well, and you know, those are also the kind of portraits I have to leave this back to Halloween somehow that are always in haunted houses. Yes, and like the eyes are cut out, and the eyes are watching you. Right. Like in the haunted mansion right at Disney. Or Scooby-Doo. Or Scooby-Doo.

There's a portrait of him like just like this that you can find, except that he's you know unfortunately covered in hair. Maybe that's Bigfoot. Maybe it's just a portrait of Bigfoot. He got so bare as he ran out in the woods and now he lives forever. It's definitely petrists, but it's an interesting point that you bring up that he that maybe this also contributes to the myth of Bigfoot. Although I feel like as I'm saying this, there are probably people listening at home going Bigfoot is not a myth. Bigfoot is real. It's not a myth. I think you just believe in all of this stuff. Of course it's Halloween!

Well, Riley, have I satisfied your need for some spooppy content? Even though spooppy month of the year doesn't start for about another two hours, I'm already feeling pretty spooppy. Well good, well good. I think it's interesting to talk about, you know, of course, like I said, not these things aren't funny in the sense that we think of funny. Luckily a lot of these things are treatable now. And certainly we have a better understanding of things like psychiatric disorders.

But it's interesting to think about how these different things that we didn't understand throughout history may have contributed to the movies that we love and will be watching for the next 31 days. I'm ready. Are you ready? I'm so ready. Thank you to the taxpayers for letting us use their song Medicines for our intro. Thank you, Riley. You're welcome for joining me on the Spoopie Spoopie episode of Sov. I really enjoyed sharing. Take your podcast or to work day with you. Happy Halloween, everybody. We hope you have a very spupi October. Justin will be back much to your pleasure, Orsha Gran. Unless something spupi offers to him.

Unless Riley decides to kill him because she's enjoying this so much. Justin will be back with us next week. In the meantime, thank you guys so much for listening. We'll see you next week. So until then, I'm Sydney McRoy. And I'm Rory Lussemore. And don't drill a hole in your head. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture, Artistone

Listener Supported