Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Adenoviruses

Episode Date: June 7, 2019

This is the story of the military-funded vaccine that was, wasn't and then ($100 million later) was again. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books! One, two, one, two, three, four! Hello everybody and welcome to Sawbode a metal tour of misguided medicine. I'm your co-host just a macaroni and I'm Sydney, man I'm just a macaroni

You already did that you did that first. I'm not only did I do that actually did that last episode So it's kind of getting to be kind of a fun tradition. Here it is, isn't it? No. No. Okay, you're not crazy about it. No, I don't love it. For next week, come up with something else. New. Perhaps. Some new stink. Yeah, some new material. Some new stink. It's very sad. Yes. My mom started out with pink eye a few days ago. Did you get your permission to share this very personal story? I told her that the episode was gonna be about what she had.

Okay. And then it has, this is the episode where you're gonna reveal the secret medicine that you have that could fix her right away that she's convinced you're holding out on her. Yes, mom always thinks that doctors are holding out on her. She progressed to fevers and respiratory symptoms and generally you had a flu-like, I would say,

a flu-like illness. And it has become apparent to me, we haven't actually taken her in and had her test, be tested because as we will discuss, I don't know that there's much of a point in it at this point, because there's not, that wouldn't change treatment, I guess, is what I mean. But I believe my mother has ad no virus.

Dun dun dun. I think that's a dun dun dun. I don't actually know with dun dun dun. Well, I was a little concerned. I went to look through our email to see if anybody had ever suggested this topic. So I could thank them, even though I kind of decided to do it because of mom. I still wanted to thank anybody who suggested it and no one ever has. So I'm worried that nobody is interested in ad no virus. You should. That is a worry. I'm thinking, just as you're saying that now, I'm worried that nobody is interested in ad no virus. You should, that is a worry. I'm thinking, just as you're saying that now,

I'm thinking about the tweet to get this one out there and I don't know, can you come up with like a better name for it? Is that maybe something we could do this episode? It's something a better name for ad no virus. That's really interesting. What's the real name of Yellow Fever, right? What's the real name for Yellow Fever? And we just, what do you mean?

We call it yellow fever? Yellow Fever? Oh man, okay. What about? Okay influenza Nothing the flu dramatic sounds like a noir villain So that's what I'm saying is like a sexier name for ad no virus That we can help that will give people excited about it.

No. Okay. I mean, you can call it by like what it causes like a lot of people get like, friend joke conjunctivitis. Friend joke conjunctivitis. Friend joke conjunctivitis. Friends.

No, friends. Friends. Like, like, friends like, I know, Sydney. I know, but I'm just saying it's a catchy name. Um, why don't you ever let me bring this is. I'm sorry. I'll keep on it.

I'll come up with something. I'm sorry that I don't have anything better for you. Um, so I'm the idea guy. All right. Well, you work on that in the meantime. Can I tell you about adenovirus? Sure. Is that acceptable?

Okay. So I want to talk about it because I tell you about adenovirus? Sure. Is that acceptable? Okay. So I want to talk about it because I fear that we're all about to get it from my mom. It's a it's a medium sized virus. There are around 57 different serotypes that can cause disease and people. What's a serotype? So there's like this word with me five times today and I still know what it means I'm sorry. I was doing this to admit it. What you would probably call a strain. Okay. A type.

Yeah. Well, there's like the species or well like yeah like the species and then the species are further divided out into like sort of subspecies. Got it. Things. But serotypes is what we call them. They're various, very closely related, but different. Got it. Perfect. OK.

And there are about 57 different ones that are divided into seven different species, and what, depending on which one you get, determines what kind of symptoms you might get from it and the severity. And you may determines what kind of symptoms you might get from it and the severity. And you may not have heard of Edna virus because a lot of times what it causes is sort of like a cold. And so you probably would never know you had it because you wouldn't get tested because you would be that mad right now. Right. So for most people, actually, most people, by the time they're 10 years old, have been

infected with some strain or another of adenovirus at some point. So you've almost certainly had this. It was first isolated in the 1950s from adenoid tissue. And so that's why it was called adenovirus. That's all the adenoid tissue tissue that one confined in the body. At kind of like up in the back of the naso pharynx kind of area. Got it. Back.

And the naso pharynx, like where might that be? Like nose, throat up or throat nose up there. We're getting there. You remember this is a podcast for non doctors right? You do have to slow things down just a little bit. I know. I know. If you've heard of adenoids it's because you may have gotten them removed when your tauts were removed. Just while they were in there. They do. They removed them for the same kinds of reasons. They don't get inflamed in a while. They are not. It's not that they're pointless that you can live without them. I don't get inflamed. And well, they're not. It's not that they're pointless is that you can live without them.

I don't want to have this conversation again. We had a whole episode where we tried the pancreas. No, it was the spleen. The spleen, that's right. So the symptoms depend on the strain as well as the age of the person who gets it in their immune status because if you have a compromised immune system, it can be worse, which is true of many things. You can get no symptoms at all.

Some people have an adenovirus infection, never know they had it. Are they contagious still? Yes, they can be. Yes, they can still shed virus in their stool, even if they didn't necessarily have symptoms. You might get cold, you get a sore throat, you get conjunctivitis.

So inflammation of the eye, the conjunctiva of the eye, like pink eye, just what you would think of it as pink eye. Is it pink eye? It is, I mean, it is. I don't actually have pink eye as a gift. Pink eye, yes. Yeah. Yeah.

So you can get bronchitis, you can get gastroeneritis, like diarrhea. You can get fevers, of course. In younger kids, we worry about things like pneumonia as severe complications. It's not common, but it can happen in little kids. In older people, we worry about things like inflammation of the brain or inflammation of the tissues around the brain and spinal cord meningitis. That's what I'm talking about.

So meningitis and cephalitis. Those are, again, very serious, but extremely rare complications that we can see in certain age groups and in immunocompromised people. For the most part, you get fevers and sore throat, maybe symptoms of pink eye, maybe some upper respiratory symptoms, maybe some diarrhea, and you feel lousy for quite a while.

That's the other thing about adenoviruses. It can knock you down for a week or two. You know, it's pretty significant. It's more so than a cold. It lingers. It lingers. That's more, yeah. For sure.

Is it more contagious than a cold, would you say? It is very contagious. Yeah. The virus is pretty hearty. It can survive on surfaces for a while. So that's a distinguishing factor among different viruses. One's that can survive outside the human body better. tend to be more contagious because if you cough

or sneeze on a surface and then somebody touches that surface, they can pick it up. Yeah, this thing is insidious. Ever since you told me about it, I keep feeling like I'm getting sick. I know, my eyes have been itching in their sense. My eyes are watering now. I'm like, well, it's it. I got it.

All right, it's allergies right now. We already had this before. But anyway, so the big problem is you get sick for a while. It's very contagious. It's spread. Like I said, the virus is really hearty and it's spread through respiratory droplets. So if you cough or sneeze, it's very contagious. It's spread. Like I said, the virus is really hearty and it's spread through respiratory droplets. So if you cough first knees, and you get it on your hands or on your body and then you touch other

people or if you get it on a surface and then somebody else touches that surface, it can also be spread through the fecal oral route. So like I said, the virus is even after you get better, you continue to have virus what we call shed in your stool. So it comes out in your stool. So swimming pools have been epicenters for these infections. Son great. Sort of like the one my parents have. Great. Oh man excellent. Oh god is editing program at my head edges. No. But some good news. My dad is very attentive when it comes to pool maintenance. That's true. He is obsessive about the chlorine levels. He blows it out. And an appropriately chlorinated pool should kill the adenovirus. You should be fine. Sorry, chlorinated folks. The outbreaks have

largely occurred in unchlorinated or not. I shouldn say un-chlorinated, but under-chlorinated or like there have been specific outbreaks where the chlorination system like failed for a while. Oh yeah. Yeah. They've actually found it to be like a little heartier in water than like, you know, polio is spread through water. That we talked about that in the polio episode, that swimming pools were feared during the polio outbreaks in the summer It's a little it's a little harder than the inner of iris that causes polio. It's a little harder than the type of say Well, I wouldn't say it's worse certainly, but it can survive a little better in water Wow, so it's very contagious as the point there's actually one I read about a whole

series of outbreaks that occurred in There's actually one, I read about a whole series of outbreaks that occurred in swimming pools and like how many who were infected and this is how they kind of figured out this connection to the water. There was one that I thought was especially in Citius, it happened at a summer camp in North Carolina in 1991. There was a one-acre man man made pond that got infected. It became the epicenter of an outbreak. Which see, it doesn't seem fair that a pond should do it, right?

Who's getting in a one acre man made pond? While the people at the summer camp. Okay, like, I don't know. I feel like you're playing a fire at that point anyway. The campers who swam daily did not like that about 48% of them swam daily. And they got sick at the same rate that people who only swam once a week. So it was pretty intense. Yeah, that they were trying to figure out like how much did you have to be exposed

to this water to get it? And it turned out like not much not much at all. All right. Yeah. There were there was also a high rate of infection among towel sharers. Don't what? This is where we can't suck.

I want to go and say, who's like, okay, kids, you're trying to Paul good pass your towel onto the neck. I can't. I thought that was some pretty intense towel sharing too, because like, when I think of getting out of, I guess, the pond, the swimming hole and tallying off, it's sort of like a more of a dabbing, like just kind of a general, I mean, like I don't get it. I'm not wiping your butt cheeks. Right. It's not like an after shower towel off, right? Unless maybe it is at this summer camp.

Very hygienic summer camp, ironically. Like they got up in there with their pond towels and then pass them on to the next pond. That part over here, Rick. I need to get dry too all over. If you know what I mean. So they went to confirm it. They got a sample of pond water six feet below the surface and they found at no virus. They were able to isolate it from the water.

That's a scary virus to me, man. Yeah, one that can live, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's been a pond and it's still floating around enough to. I mean, invisible jaws. Yeah, that's what I mean. But I mean, again, like I polio is a fair comparison. But polio was the same problem back when outbreaks. If that happens before the, you know, vaccine that everybody should get. Yep. Because of all the life saving. I know. We know. So anyway, in 1953, one of one of our favorite, my favorite people that we

discussed on this podcast, not plenty of the elders 1953 folks, if you were about to say plenty of the elder, I did say it was 1953. So, yeah, it's, it's, he's like, he's become a recurring favorite here on the show show Maurice Hilleman. Maurice Hilleman Who was working at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research He was called to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri to investigate what they thought was a flu outbreak Huh, and among among troops. So they thought ah, there's a big bad influence outbreak that is happening So they thought, ah, there's a big bad influence outbreak that is happening. Let's get Hillamon down here, because at the time he'd already made his mark as an excellent epidemiologist and vaccine specialist researcher hero. All around.

All around great guy who also didn't brag about it? He he went and he checked out the outbreak and he got some swabs from some soldiers and he went back to his lab And he started isolating it and he found that it is not it was not flu It was a whole new type of virus One that belonged to a family that had just recently been discovered and named the adnose, the adnoveiruses. So, Hillamann found that these recruits were suffering from a pretty severe flu-like illness that turned out to be an adnoveirus. And they pretty quickly, after that, they started checking out more and more army bases

and finding that military recruits got adnovirus at a very high rate. They started to find that a lot of the cases of acute respiratory illness. So what we talk about is like, we call URIs and medicine upper respiratory infections. Sure. A lot of them turned out to be due to adnoviruses, which was very different than the general population. Most people who are most civilians when they walk into a doctor's office with some sort of cold or flu-like illness don't have adenovirus. But a lot of these military personnel that were living in training, like in basic training situations,

did in fact have adenovirus. So it seemed to be very specifically targeted at kind of the living in close quarters that occurs, which is why when you look through outbreaks that have happened outside of a military bases, you find like summer camps as a commonplace or college campuses, places where people live in really close quarters. Sure.

So, it did have a low mortality they found, the adenovirus, it usually was not something that was fatal. However, it was associated some of the various serotypes, the different strains, or associated with pretty significant morbidity, meaning you got sick, and you got so sick that you couldn't work, and you got sick for a while. So you actually had, like, and because it was so contagious, you had large numbers of troops who were down and out at the same time. And this is not great for training situations. The national security. Yeah, sure. It's not great when you think about that you,

I'm assuming that basic training happens on a certain schedule and, you know, an interruption of a week or two is a big deal. Right. And especially if you're talking, you know, three-fourths of your base or down at the same time. You start over, yeah. Exactly.

So it's a huge interruption. Plus the cost, the cost of everybody being sick and needing medical attention and the lost time and all that. So because of all that, there was a big effort at that point to come up with a vaccine. The idea being that if we had a vaccine, we could keep soldiers healthy, prevent loss of work days,

all the costs associated with the illness, the interruptions and their training. And of course, I suppose somebody would have made the point that if you carry this out to like an actual military, like active duty scenario, it would be very bad to get everybody with adenovirus at the same time. So it made a lot of sense to come up with a vaccine really targeted at military recruits

at the time, not at the general public. So Hillamann started the work and based on what he began an inactivated adenovirus vaccine was developed in 1956. So when we say inactivated, we mean a killed virus vaccine. So what I have it, why do I have to stress out about your mom? Why don't I have the vaccine? Well, Justin, I'll tell you the history of the adenovirus vaccine. But before I do that, let's go to the billing department. Let's go.

The medicines, the medicines that ask you let my God before the mouth. So, okay. So, Hillman and the scientists that continued his work, they made this vaccine. It protected against two strains, by the way. Four and seven, because those are the most common. Those were the most common that they were isolating

among military recruits. They added type three to the vaccine a little later, but even Helleman was like, I love reading paper straight from Helleman because I feel like I'm not reading about him. I'm actually reading his work and it makes me feel a little closer to him. He's like a rock star. He made so many vaccines. So many so many.

But I would have been happy in my life making one. If I made one cool vaccine, I would have felt really good about it. But so Hillman even noted like, I don't know that adding three was really necessary. It really didn't get us too much. There was some, they noted, they would note later that there were some cross coverage of different strains, which you see sometimes we say that with the flu vaccine as well, that even if we guess wrong and the flu strain that's prevalent that year was not one of the ones that was targeted with the vaccine, There is some cross-coverage sometimes, so you are less likely to get as sick if you get

the vaccine. So, they did see some of that. So, they said that adding the three probably wasn't very helpful, but the four and the seven were the main two that were targeted. They were the main two that they were finding more a problem. Now, there were some problems with the manufacturing of the adenovirus vaccine. There were two. One, pretty straightforward.

Hillman had even noted in his initial paper that it's got to be a pretty potent vaccine to be effective. And so if you aren't very careful with the manufacturing process of the vaccine, you won't actually have a kind of, to put it in an easy way to understand a strong enough vaccine to get the immune response you need. Thank you for not saying to put it in just in terms like you normally do.

I appreciate that for the show. So they had some variability among different vaccine lots and so some of them weren't as effective as others. I found notes that like the vaccine wasn't very effective. It wasn't that the vaccine. The vaccine has meant to be created wasn't quite effective. It's just that there were some lots that were made incorrectly. There also was a problem with,

and I think this merits just a little bit of conversation. There were some of the lots that were found to be infected with SV40, semi-invirus 40. Now, is that anything like you be 40? Nothing like you be 40. Figure no. Now, SV 40, if you have, I'm gonna guess if you're listening to our podcast,

you're probably not anti-vaccine because I think most of those people, I know we've, we've, are, should be too angry at this point to continue to listen to my voice. But you may know some people who are anti-vaccine and they may have mentioned SV-40 to you before, because SV-40 is a virus that causes cancer in hamsters. We know that.

It is isolated from the kidney cells of recess monkeys. And these cells were used in the production of some of these early vaccines. They used some of these kidney cells for monkeys. And the cells just happened to be infected with this virus, right? So the virus ended up in some of the vaccines. Now this caused quite a stir when it was discovered in the polio vaccine. It wasn't just the adenovirus vaccine. The polio vaccine was also found to have been contaminated by this virus. Some of it, not all of the polio vaccines, but some lots. And as a result, by 1963, all of those vaccines had been pulled out of circulation.

They were tested for SV40, and from 1963 on, no vaccines have contained SV40. Now, it is important to know this fact, because a lot of people will use this example as a reason not to get vaccinated. Because these are dangerous or careless. Yes, exactly. And they will try to say that people got cancer from vaccines. Well, here's a very important thing to note. SV 40 has never been proven to cause cancer in humans. We've never been able to find that by researching it.

It did in hamsters, but not in humans. Everything causes cancer in hamsters. Well, I don't know that everything does, but almost every before he can. I'm not saying they've still, they've still continued to study it to see, did we just do it under the wrong circumstances? Is it still possible?

Nobody has completely said it's impossible, but so far we've never proven that it can. Secondly, all the people who received polio vaccines in the time period that they could have been infected and all the people who received adenovirus vaccines in the time period. Are long dead? No. There has been no, they've all been studied and there was no increase in the incidents of cancer among these patients. Got it. So this is not true. If you hear people say, well, SV 40 vaccines give you cancer. Nope. Nope. They don't. Nope. Still don't. Your adults.

Vaccines are still great. Yeah. But because they found SB 40 and some of the adenovirus vaccines, they pulled all of these off the market. They went back to the drawing board, so to speak, and they came out with a live virus vaccine, which it was a little bit easier to make sure it was effective. Okay. You didn't have to worry so much about variability between different lots as they did with the other vaccine. Because it was live virus, they actually ended up making two,

one against four and one against seven, instead of it being combined into one shot like it was before. These are actually two separate pills that you take. It's an oral vaccine. Even better. It's a tablet vaccine. So there are two tablets.

One is a live virus. Is it like an ordinary military people? So yes, at the time. I just think it's funny that we're trying to save military people the pain and suffering of getting shots. They can handle it, I bet. I'm at almost any way the military can handle getting shots. They just, they were able to make it this way. They made them, um, it's terrible an ulcery. Can they get me shots? They were able to make it this way.

They made them... It's terrible. No shade. They made them enteric coated so that they could survive in the stomach and then you'd get vaccinated from the tablet. They build up an immune response from the tablet instead of a shot. Basically, they kind of caused what we would think of

as an asymptomatic, meaning no symptoms, and completely non-communicable. You were not infectious, GI tract kind of infection. Like they just, like a very, like a, they, kind of, the virus got down there and then your immune system attacked it and then you build up an antibody response. Great. But you weren't, you weren't gonna pass it along to anybody else and you didn't have any symptoms

So it was great. So it worked really well They gave the vaccines to different groups. It was all tried out among the military So they gave it to different troops and then measured rates of adenovirus among people who got four people who got seven people who got both The vaccines to four and seven people who got neither and they figured it all out you got a But yes, then the placebo and they did all this research and they figured out that you know what These both work really well they greatly reduced the rates of adenovirus and they should probably take both because It's hard to predict if they might get an outbreak of four or seven both of them cause problems

So let's give them both. We should probably just give it to them as soon as they show up. It became the standard that within, the way it was initially written within hours after their arrival at basic training, starting in 1971, you would give recruits both of these tablets. This is great. And this should have been the end of the story in terms of military personnel because they're all getting vaccinated as soon as they show up. However, there was only one company making the vaccines.

Lex Corp. And Superman shut him down. Now this would be this would be a weird twist. Now, why is laboratories in 1994 that they were the only people making the the adenovirus vaccine said, Hey, look, US government. We need a new facility to continue to make this. We are not going to be able to continue to meet modern production standards unless we get a bunch of money to build a new facility.

And if you won't give it to us, we're not making anymore. And we're the only ones making it. So you better give us some money. And a pool. We want a pool. There's a lot of it. Our soldiers are going to die right now. So pink guy.

They continued for a while as long as their equipment was functional to make the vaccine. In the meantime, the government kind of went to other manufacturers and said, will you make it? Please, we need this because Wyeth is about stop making it. Finally, their facilities were not working the way they expected them to. So, they stopped manufacturing the vaccine because they couldn't, they felt safely manufactured anymore. And then, they ran out in 1999. So the rest of the vaccine was depleted or it had all expired by 1999.

So they had nobody to make the vaccine at that point. And what immediately followed this? A lot of people were getting it. Yeah, new recruits started getting out of virus again. So they started seeing cases rise and they started again losing work days and the costs went up and all of the things that they already knew were a problem prior to this.

I'm gonna ask a question that you may not have an answer to but I'm just curious. Why, I mean, I guess people are just bringing it from outside. It just seems like for years, years of giving this to everyone in the military seems like there would be like lower, not viral load. That's not the word I'm trying to say, but like, you're thinking of herd immunity.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand what you're saying, but, and again, I am not a military person, but this is my concept, my idea, is that when you go to basic training, you're coming from civilian life, right? I mean, it doesn't matter. And once you're finished, you don't necessarily stay there.

Right. You go somewhere else. You know, you might be moved to a different place, would be my thought. So the places where the outbreaks were happening were being continually refreshed with unvaccinated, fresh new, new recruits, new blood coming out. Exactly. Yeah. So, so even though, I guess if some of the personnel, I don't know, do you get to like

graduate and then hang around like those people who come back and see your teachers come back and hang around their high school all the time. Maybe you can, but they would. You sit in with the drum line one more time Like like Matthew McConaughey and that Alright, alright, alright. Yeah, that one. It's a good map But I guess I guess they would be okay, but all the newerruits are still vulnerable and they're all still in close contacts. Anyway, so people started getting it again. At this point, the military realized, we got to do something.

Okay. So in 2001, the government contracted with a new manufacturer, bar pharmaceuticals, and provided the money that was necessary to start making the vaccines again, both Type 4 and Type 7. They had to kind of go back through the whole process of clinical trials and regulatory requirements and everything all over again. And it wasn't until March of 2011, 10 years later, the vaccine was re-licensed and able to be used. So by October of 2011, they started using it again over this course of time over the 10

years that it took to reestablish the Adnovirus Vaccination Program. They invested $100 million in the process. Probably would win Jibber Bird build those guys any building. The... Just as a comparison, why is the... What they had said back in 94 and 95 when they were asking for money, they estimated that they needed between 3 and 5 million to make the changes necessary to continue. With inflation, it's pretty close. So anyway, it was the however much money

it costs, I'm on the side of science. It was the right thing to do because once they started vaccinating military personnel again, rates of adenovirus due to type 4 and type 7, begin to fall again dramatically. And it's important to note that in the time period between when the vaccine ran out in 99 and when the new vaccine was introduced in 2011, eight people in the military died of adenovirus. Now, I know that sounds like a small number, because especially on this podcast,

because we talk about things like influenza and smallpox and the plague that kill thousands and thousands and millions of people. But if you're talking about young, healthy, you know, military service members who came in, it may be in peak physical condition and then are taken down by something that is preventable. So, one is too many.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Now, I hope your mom is just going to skip that part. Right? Yeah, I hope she's not going to listen to that part. I won't let her listen to this till she's all better. We'll make her a special edited version. So it is very unlikely that one would ever die from adverts. Eight people in the military die, but it is possible in a severe enough outbreak that they can suffer severe complications

and it can be fatal. Again, very unlikely of a possible. And so it is, and the reason that they actually did the study to like prove this and publish this, the reason that the researchers did this, even though it was a lower number in the grand scheme of things, was to say that the more successful this even though it was a lower number in the grand scheme of things was to say that The more successful this is what they said the more successful a vaccine is the more quickly the need for it will be forgotten So we have to remember and I think that that can apply that can be applied to a lot of the vaccines that we're talking about today specifically like measles

that we're talking about today, specifically like measles. Nobody remembers what a big deal measles was because our vaccine was so good at preventing it. Everybody thinks measles is in a big deal, and unfortunately it's taking the current measles outbreak for people to realize, like, oh, maybe measles actually was a big problem, and maybe it really was good that we were vaccinated against it. And maybe everybody who tells me not to give the vaccine is totally wrong. And a no do we they should stop. So what do we do?

I'm sorry, we're ready to, you know, when we tell people to rate and subscribe and help share this show, they often forget that if everybody did it, now this stuff will happen. Just remember, I'm just sad. I don't even have would happen. Just remember, I'm just saying, I don't even have this, I like a threat. I'm just saying, I don't know. Everybody listen to the song, this would be a lot healthier as a society.

I wish. Well, if everybody believed what I said, but- I wish too, you can't be average for that. Apocalypse, everybody listen to. I mean, yes, please. I'm just going to rename this show Yacht Talk, because it's just me and Sid talking about our yachts. If it was a podcast, everybody listened to.

We'd have to rename it cereal. So for the rest of us, civilians who don't get the vaccine, what do we do? beg for it. Well, no. Bye, don't eBay. You just, I mean, for most of us, it's just, it just sucks. Supportive care. You just waited out like drink plenty of fluids. Stay hydrated. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I had it actually, Charlie and I had this a couple of years ago.

I figured it out because Charlie was sick for days with a fever and he scared the heck out of me. And then I woke up and my eye was maddened shut and I realized like, ah crap, we have had no virus. That's what it hit me. But because it can manifest different ways even among like family members during the same outbreak, you know, because of our age differences. If you are, if you do get ad no virus or you think you have it and you are having sustained high fever, you're having neck pain or you are confused or you can't stop vomiting or anything like that.

Trouble breathing, please go see a doctor immediately. For most people, it's just something that sucks and you write it out and you get better. But if you're having anything that worries you, you'll get checked out. It doesn't hurt to get checked out. You may just need time and fluids, but you should always get checked out. There was a case of this at UVA just recently. Like yesterday, it was reported. Wow.

Okay. So, and now, like I said, it's always concerning on college campuses because close quarters. And one interesting note about Adna virus, so you don't have to hate on it too much. Can I say one cool thing? Yeah. The adnovirus has been used in a lot of different clinical trials to try to, as a vehicle for gene therapy. It's a good, like, package, so to speak, to deliver genes to cells in gene therapy. So it's under investigation for that, as well as for treatment of cancer. Oh, cool.

It's a way to, the virus can kill cancer cells on its own, but it has also been a way to activate your immune system to attack cancer cells by infecting them with the virus. All right. And then there are also, there are different genes that you can use the the virus like put the genes in the virus and use the viruses Or like Trojan horse to get into the cancer cells and deliver these genes that can stop the cancer. It's all it's also experimental It's also clinical trial investigative stuff But it's a add no virus has been found to be a really good virus for this kind of therapy. I know you think that That's really cool and maybe I'm just a softie,

but I just really wish your mom was a sick. And I guess, I think it's kind of a shame that people get it still, but I guess it is cool, so it's a good point. I mean, it's pretty cool. Justin. I just wish people, maybe I'm just sentimental, but I just don't like to see your mom say.

I'm Mary. We want to say thank you to people who sent stuff to our PO box. PO box 54, I need to wish your mom say hi Mary. We want to say thank you to people who sent stuff to our PO box. PO box 54, honey to West Virginia 250 and I say, if you want to send this stuff, you don't have to. But sometimes people send this stuff. Deanna sends some art. We got Mercer from Cat and Lynn, a toy from the snaps,

EAK sent books. Stephanie sent a prescription book, Colin, Christian, Thia, and Gus for the Cadbury's, Paul the tick and cards and mug when Mary got ill Charlie thought it might be the tick that we got it was a stuffed tick Yes, but she thought maybe that was the culprit that it was a real tick and that we all need to be super careful with it It is not it's just a big stuff tick, but it is a creepy look I want to say thank you the taxpayers for the social medicines as the intro and outro of our program. And we hope you get

better soon, mom. Oh, and I, yes, please come watch our children. You have to watch both of them by ourselves. Are you kidding me? I'll say. If you are worried, I know I made this podcast sound very dire. If you're worried, my, my my mom's gonna be just fine. She's okay She's gonna get shit in front of her. Yeah, she's we're keeping her hydrated with grape water her favorite drink And you know how last week on our paternity test episode I said that this would be a great one for my dad to do on court pointed. Yes, they're doing it. Oh good next week on court Appointed. If you want to hear the legal side of Paternity testing you should check out court appointed with my dad and Michael Michael cross over you can talk about all the legal stuff

So I thought I would I would mention that let's get to do it first folks so until next week My name is Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy and as always don't drill a hole in your head! Maximumfun.org Comedy and Culture Artists don't? Audience supported Welcome! Thank you, Paul These are real podcast listeners, not actors. What do you look for in a podcast?

Reliability is big for me, power. I'd say comfort. What do you think of this? Oh! That's Jordan Jesse Go! Jordan Jesse Go? They came out of the floor? And down from the ceiling?

That can't be safe. I'm upset. Can we go down? Soon. Jordan Jesse Go! A real podcast. a real podcast.