Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Antimony

Episode Date: June 30, 2018

Imagine an incredible pill that could give you nausea and diarrhea and then once ejected from your body could be reused an endless number of times. Dream no more! Antimony is here! Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, what's wrong with these about? It's books! One, two, one, two, three, four! I'm your co-host Justin McElroy.

Hello, everybody and welcome to Sal Bones, a marital turf misguided medicine. I'm your co-host Justin McElroy. And I'm Sydney McElroy. Hey, Sid. Hey, Justin. Happy Saturday to you. Thank you.

Same to you as well, also to you in addition. Hey, Justin. Yeah. Before we get started on this week's medical misadventure, I thought our last episode got quite a response. Yes. Not both positive and negative. I find it funny with saw bones that everybody's very excited to see everything get dunked on until they are the ones receiving the dunking. And then we're off base. It never fails that there's always get to look close to home.

Hey, listen folks, I've been there. I know everybody's got a degree. I know. Well, we have, we have, I have challenged some of your strongly held beliefs about certain quote unquote treatments. And I, and I just wanted to clarify a few points. I'm not. strongly held beliefs about certain quote unquote treatments. And I just wanted to clarify a few points. I'm not, I,

about the key to genetic diet. About the key to genetic diet episode we did last week. I'm not, I'm not taking anything back. So if that's what you're waiting for, I'm sorry. I'm not, but I, A lot of people, I saw a couple, couple fellas accuse you of ignorance

and I'm glad they didn't say that to my face for starters, because I'll get all gross alpha male on them if that is what the situation requires. And by that, I mean, I would yell at them, back to them very sternly. I'm gonna give everybody the benefit of the doubt and say that if you were critical of that, it is because you have been using the ketogenic diet and you have had success.

And I think at least I tried to make this point on the episode and if I didn't, let me clarify it now. If you are using the ketogenic diet and you are pleased with the results in terms of you've lost weight and you wanted to and you're happy about that. You feel good. You've checked in with your doctor, your healthcare provider, and they say, everything's doing okay. You look good. Everything is good inside and out, and you're happy with that. And you feel full and fulfilled and satisfied with your life on the ketogenic diet. By all means, continue.

I didn't know way was trying to insinuate that everybody should avoid this. All I was simply trying to point out is that a lot of studies have shown that yes, you can lose weight on the ketogenic diet, but you could also lose weight on other low-carb diets. And you can also lose weight on low-calorie diets, and you could also lose weight on low-fat diets. And there's a lot of ways that you can lose weight. If that is your goal, if that is the thing you're trying to achieve, you don't have to do

the ketogenic diet to do that. In fact, for some people, it may be a bad option, whether because it could make you sick, because of other medical conditions, or just because it makes you unhappy. If it were me, it would make me very unhappy. And so I wouldn't want to do it because I couldn't live that way. So if you were having success, by all means, continue. But if somebody is telling you

that the ketogenic diet is the magic cure all for all your ills, I will tell you, just like everything else we address on the show, there is no one-size-fits-all solution to weight loss or any other medical condition, frankly. You have to find, I don't want to say any other medical condition, anything this complex that involves lifestyle change. There's no one program that's going to work for everybody.

So science isn't about belief. It's not about the thing that you get really excited about belief. It's not about the thing that you get really excited about necessarily. It's just about fact. And that's important to remember. So if you if you want to continue the the KD there and it's doing good for you by all means, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all of your friends and family have to do it too. And also I mentioned a couple times that it sounds really hard and I've been it's really hard and a lot of people were like, oh, it's so easy. But listen, I've done a couple of different, very car perspective diets in an easy.

And in my opinion, and this is from a layman who's only experience is just his own throughout his life, extremely restrictive diets like that are not sustainable for long periods of time. For most people, for me, I will say, I can't speak for most people, they're very hard to maintain. Especially if you have a life that is not you sitting at home and like planning out all your meals 100% of the time, it could be very challenging. Yes.

Some people might find it satisfying and easy for them and kudos to you if you do. I think a lot of people find them difficult. And I think that there's a whole other issue that is longer than a quick note at the beginning of a podcast about you have to be able to afford certain diets and you have to be able to have access to things and time to prepare foods. And let's face it, carbs are cheap and carbs are fast. And for busy people on a budget, some of these other diets can be very hard just to access food. And we want people eating. We don't want people going on diets that they lose weight on because they

just can't eat or afford any of the foods on the diet. So I think there are a lot more issues there than whether or not you like the taste of fat foods, fatty foods. So you know, fat foods with fat in them. But we're not here to talk about the key to genetic diet said we're here to talk about. I'm just going to say antimony because you told me this shows about antimony and I have literally no idea what that is. I have no, usually I can come up with like a cute intro. I have no idea what that means. Usually when I get emails about topics that we should cover, I'll read the email and

I'll think, oh yeah, I've thought about that and that is a good idea or I'm familiar with that, that would be interesting. So I want to thank Claire and Katie and Keehonder. They've all emailed us this topic suggestion and when I first saw Antimony, I was like, well, okay, that's an element. I don't why would I talk about that? I had no idea. And then I started reading and I got really excited

because it was a good one. Antimony is an element like on the periodic table, you know, of elements, those, the ones that are on those shoes that I have. Got it. It is a lustrous gray metaloid. Okay. So now you have that information.

The symbol for it is SB because like most of the elements on the periodic table, the symbol is derived from like the Latin or the Greek or the yeah. And its number is 51 if you care about atomic numbers. All right. And you've got that information. It's gripping so far said. It's you why you're so excited. Yeah, I'm getting there. It's naturally occurring in the earth, mainly as a sulfide mineral stib night, which is where you get the SB, a lot of its derivatives are SB. It's mine largely in China. And today, if you're talking about antimony, it's probably for some sort of industrial use. Okay. But like most other random, pretty substances that people log out of the earth throughout history, we have tried to use it as medicine.

I don't know what that is. We find something that's like, oh, that's kind of a pretty rock. Let's try it. Let's rub it in ourselves. Let's swallow. Let's put it in our butt. Something. It's got to do something.

It's got to do something. Also, a rock. Surf me. Also a poison. We'll get into that. So some of the earliest uses of Antimony are actually cosmetic. I think we may have talked about coal as in KOHL coal on the show before. So, Egyptians would use Antimony as an eyeliner of sorts or maybe even a

mascara to highlight their eyes with dark, you know, dark eyeliner, kind of blackish substance or bluish looking. But coal is a traditional cosmetic that can be made of different substances and it wasn't, it was used in Egypt, but it was also used throughout the Middle East and parts of northern Africa, and then you can find other variations of it used throughout Southeast Asia all over, throughout time and spanning cultures still used today. Antimony is what they made it out of there. And it was not only thought to be beautiful, but also for like eye health. It was thought to protect your eye from a variety of diseases.

If you had them lined in this and there's also some beliefs and other cultures that you can apply it to different parts of the face to like ward off the evil eye and that kind of thing. It's like It's not necessarily just for women, adults, children, any gender can use it. Anybody? Yeah, just as a side. Now, and now commonly, preparations you'll find today are, well, actually, there are a lot of cosmetic brand sold that don't have any toxic substances in them. But for a while, lead was a very popular compound in this and charcoal and things like that,

which obviously led to their own health effects, but the only option is to use antimony. How's it look? For me, I will sacrifice, I'll eat lead, if it was a good one, I'm going to use my eyes pop, give me that front-page shine that I need to succeed in Hollywood. No, you won't.

I would, I mean, if I had the option of like, lead-based paint or sunken eyes that made me look all, like I have to keep that like, late 20s kind of glow. I think at most, late 20s. I think it looks very nice. I don't think I could pull it off. Lead? No, I'm like the dark eyeliner, cold like that.

Oh, okay. Not lead. I would advise you please don't put lead cold like that. Oh, okay. Not lead. I would advise you please don't put lead on your face. Okay, fine. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah.

I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah.

I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. I'm like a warpah. It calls it like Stibi and Stimmy. Stibi, that's a cute one. Alibastrom, Larbasis, he's got lots of names for it. We're talking about Antimony, but in his book Natural History, he even has a chapter called Seven Remedies to arrive from Stimmy.

Stimmy. Stimmy. He thought there was a male and a female form. Oh, like so many elements. Right. That of genders. That of genders. Uh-huh.

The female form, he thought was the smoother form. This is like, like, like, like a naturally occurring form of the element. And then if it was the sulfide, like alloy, the sulfide compound, I should say, that that would be rougher and he called that the male form. Sure. You would use different forms, of course.

Sure, right. Like everything that Plenty found, he had uses for it because it existed in the earth, there's a reason to put it in your body. So he notes the eye healing properties. He agrees with that. He also refers to it as a platy ophthalmone, because for wide eyes, because it can dilate the eyes. He notes that women like to use it to make their eyes look wide.

But it's the same thing that Beladonna was used for this too, to put in your eyes and dilate your pupils so that your eyes would look big. It also, Pliny also noted that it was good for things like ulcerations of the eye, so we're getting a little bit more complex with eye illnesses, and then also, and when you're going to do that, you need to use it in its powdered form with some frankincense and some gum, mix it all together and then put it on your eye. Okay. You could also use it as a powder

to arrest discharges of blood from the brain. Oh, what? Nosebleed. Nosebleed. Did you think that was just popping out early brain? I'm not sure arrest discharges of blood from the brain, which I mean, you got bigger problems than what you mean like a subdural hematoma? Well, but like where are you sprinkling it then? That's a good point. You're not gonna see that. Yeah, it's a good point. Yeah, I'm impressed with your use of subdural hematoma though. Well, thank you, Sid.

Yeah, I'm impressed with your use of subdural hematoma though. Well, thank you, Sid. I Co-host a medical history podcast. He also thought it was good for dog bites Especially ones that are old Old dog bites you keep looking at you're like I gotta I gotta do something about that. Oh, it's looking bad Oh, I gotta get in there and you could mix it with grease or maybe some wax and put it on a burn. I mean, yeah, that would probably work great. Well, are you just like sealing over it with the grease and the wax and the antimony is just there for fun, although as we're going to talk about, it can

be poisonous. So not great to not great. Plenty also left very like precise, which he often did, on how to prepare it, because Antimony, you needed to actually get, like if you found, like, it in an alloy, you needed to actually remove, like, get the Antimony out of it. Remember the other substances? So you'll find lots of these different preparation instructions for different elements, not just Antimony. But for this one, I really enjoy it. So what you do, you enclose it in a coat of cow dung.

Okay. Your rock that has antimony in it. And you're gonna burn it in a furnace now that it's in this cow dung. And then you're gonna douse it with some breast milk. Okay. To cool it off. Sure.

And then which you're not using my breast milk for that. No, sorry, Plenty. Yeah, Plenty, hey, Plenty of refrigeration hasn't been invented yet. So, well, no, in that case, maybe they just had some extra burnt. Like, what are you into with it? Oh, well.

Kinky bit, kinky bit, frankly. People aren't pumping. What are you gonna do with it? Oh, well. Kiki, but Frank. People aren't pumping. What do you mean they had extra? I know what he was pumping. I guess, but if the baby's napping and your friend plenty next door needs your help, and you're just gonna stand over a fire with just squirming.

And hand express breast milk onto the cow dung for rap and spruity. for medicine. Yeah. Then you're gonna pound it in a mortar with some rainwater. At this point the breast milk is just useless. So then you're gonna have a thick and turbid part and you pour that off into a copper vessel. And then you're going to, let's see,

oh, then there's gonna be some stuff that falls to the bottom, which has led in it, and you don't want that, so you get rid of that. Okay. And you're gonna keep like siphoning off the top part of it into your copper vessel. And you're gonna cover it with a linen cloth and you're gonna leave it.

And then again, you need to remove the top part because now the bottom part of the bottom is what you want. Okay. And somehow. It's hard to keep track of. Yeah. And somehow and then you're gonna pound that with a mortar and you're gonna put it in tablets and you're gonna take it for what ails you or sell it to people.

Probably sell it if you're all that organ, so it to people. Probably sell it after all that work. I'm just gonna swallow it. It makes the money off of it. Who's gonna feel like doing that if you're afflicted with whatever this was supposed to cure? Well, just whatever. I mean, like Plenty said, you know, it's good for I stuff, it's good for burns, good for dog bites.

You know, it's interesting like all those different things you'd think you could just apply it topically but now you've made these tablets. So I guess you may as well ingest it. Yeah. Yeah. But it's poison, right? Yeah. At this point, what do you poison? Um, it depends on, I'll go ahead and say that. So it depends on how like it is depends on the compound. You know, a lot of elements can combine with different other elements to make compounds. And if it's combined the right way, it can be poisonous to you. Okay.

I feel like I'm probably not like on first contact, if you're taking a small amount, not enough to like kill you, it's not like arsenic, it's not like you're gonna take it and die. But that's a good comparison. It could have like similar but less toxic effects. I heard you describe that entire process,

and I feel like if any process is gonna turn anything into poison, it was what you just described. But it sounded like the most likely to become poison process possible. So the way that this became really, because I'm mentioning it as if like, so this was this really popular medical treatment. Not really, I mean, Plenty talked about everything.

Like if you look like this chapter that I just, that all this is from in natural history, the next few chapters are about like mercury and cinnabar and like all these other elements that he has remedies from that are similarly strange and labor intensive. And so I mean, it wasn't necessarily standing out as the chief treatment yet. That really didn't happen until Paracelsus.

Now, we have talked about Paracelsus. I love Paracelsus. Before, do you remember his full name? Uh, let me try to remember, hold on. Philippus Arellius, Theofastrispumbastusvon. Owenheim? Owenheim, that's right, the last couple syllables. Yeah, you cheated, but he called himself Paraselsus,

which either meant next to Celsius, because he called either as good as Celsius, who is like a famous Greek dude, right? There you go. A famous Greek philosopher. As I've, Paracelsus either means as good as Celsius or better than Celsius, depending on the interpretation. And if you, if you, like, if you listen to our episode about Paracelsus,

it probably meant better than probably that's what he meant. Dude was, there was a, a, a, out there. He was a little full of himself. He lived in the early 1500s and just to refresh. So he kind of turned all of medicine on its year by saying, hey, Galen was wrong. He didn't know what he was talking about. That he challenged the whole humoral system of medicine

saying that you are not sick because your humor is out of balance, you're sick because something from the outside, some sort of invader has made you sick. And to make you better, we can't just bleed you or give you something to make you throw up or go to the bathroom or something like that. To make you better, we have to put something in your body to heal you. And so he was like the first one to talk about chemical medicine. And this was a revolutionary idea, you know, and some of the chemicals that he wanted to put in your body made a lot of people raise an eyebrow because he was recommending treatments

with things like antimony, but also lead and mercury and arsenic and things like that. This was actually like a big war in medicine at this point between the Galenists and the Paracelsians who, who, you know, the Galenists were like, hey, that's poison. Don't eat that. And he was like, yeah, but your bloodletting is not so fast. He was like, well, but your bloodletting isn't working so great. Either is it guys? And I mean, the truth is, none of it was working right? No. Like none of it was. Let's do both. But listen let's talk about Drought. The idea of medicine was a good idea. Mm-hmm.

He also, by the way, I found a quote from him, I don't think we dropped into our previous episode that I really enjoy. Okay, is it related to the topic or is you just want to share it? It is related to the topic. So he's challenging the system of medicine. He was the first one to come up with this idea of take these chemicals, they'll make you better. And he wrote, I am different. Let this not upset you. I love

that. I love that. I love that. And so he was the one who really started saying, Hey, Antimony's good. I know it could be a poison, but it also could make you better. Let's give it a shot. The dose makes the poison, right? The dose makes the poison, too true. So do they give it a shot? Well, they did, Justin, before we talk about that, let's go to the billing department. Let's go. The medicines, the medicines that ask you let my God for the mouth.

Now, Sid, we are about to start giving this stuff a whirl. Okay. So it's the 1500s. Whoa. There are, there is this, as I've already mentioned, there's this battle waging as to whether or not people should be eating poison. Is it better than putting a leash on you? Who knows? But it is so controversial that in fact, in France, for instance, a lot of physicians were so concerned about people using these poisonous substances that antimony had actually been like banned by royal decree.

Wow. But Paracelsis and his writings and his influence convinced a lot of people to maybe we should be trying these things anyway, all these weird toxic substances that he recommends. So in 1666, Louis XIV rescinded the decree declaring that you couldn't use it because he was cured of an illness

with a compound that contained antimony. It made him throw up a lot and he got better. So there it is, that's all it takes. That's all it takes. That's all it takes. So at that time, antimony started to become very popular. People got interested like, well,

it made the king throw up and get better. I wanna throw up and get better. I wanna throw up and get better. We know how popular anal fistulas can get. Yeah. If the king does it. So if the king's, you know, puking up the antimony. You did. Yeah.

Thank you. Yes, please. Everybody wants it too. You actually find from 1755, there was a speech that, or a writing that John Huxam, the English surgeon, gave to the Royal Society. And he gives directions for the preparation, the use of antimony, and he talks about that, like it's gonna cause some sweating and some vomiting

and catharsis, but that all of that is beneficial. If you're sick, this is good. I mean, this was a time for violent cures for violent illnesses. What doesn't cause those things, you know? What doesn't? Well, medicine that works. Well, that that works. Well, that's not even true.

Some medicine that works doesn't cause that. I can't live with that. So basically, he said, yes, these things can be poisoned, but if you use them in the right doses, they'll make you better. So give it a whirl. And then it became pretty popular, especially as a laxative and an emetic. So something to make you poop and something to make you better. So give it a whirl. And then it became pretty popular, especially as a laxative and anemetic. So something to make you poop and something to make you puke. Both ends blow it out. It would just clean you out. And so for fevers of any variety, for any illness,

whatever was going on, the idea was I will purge it from my system with this sort of toxic compound, right? So you would actually, they would make pills of antimony that you would take and let it go through you and clean you out all the way probably in part because it was toxic to you. It was sort of poisoning you, making you sick, but it would completely clean you out and it would come out the other end hole because you can't digest it. Yeah. And then you would fish it out of the toilet or bucket or whatever. Right back on the shelf. Clean it off and save it for next time.

Not just for you, honey. Well, why would you buy more than one? It's fun, it's good though. If you're in a big house, you color code your antibody. So you know, like that one's dad's, that's when he takes when he is very ill to make him poop and throw up at the same time. That is also, I don't like, I, what do you like about this?

I don't like anything about it. I always get tickled though by medicine that's like, hey, you want to come see a movies after dinner? Like, no, I don't come see a movie this afternoon? No, I don't. I actually just swallowed my antimony so Victoria, clear my calendar. That's my day.

This is my day today is just sitting and waiting for this world with that I've reaped to just level my home. Pop out the other end. Yeah. It's good value though. It's like an everlasting God's offer. So you could take it again and again, you can share it. Every last thing, hold on, I'll get it. Every last thing, poop starter. Is that something you're getting there? I'll keep working off. I'll find it. So you

could share it with your family and friends. In fact, these things could be passed down from generation to generation, treasured family heirlooms. This is the pill that came out of your great, great, grandpauls, but now it's going to come out of your butt. Mom, please, no, please, mom, I don't want to know. Nope, nope. If it was good enough for a great, great aunt, Suzy, it's good enough for you. Nope.

Open up. Also, it may have, Antimony may have killed Mozart. Oh, no. Apparently, he was a hypokondriac. I didn't know this. Also, Antimony may have killed Mozart. Oh, no. Apparently he was a hypokondriac. I didn't know this. And so he often would be afraid that he was ill in some way and take treatments. And he used Antimony a lot.

Maybe so much that it killed him. We don't know. So, because antimony was prized, you would find other ways to make things out of it. And antimony is actually, it's good to know. Like, goblets and jars and things. You could store things in it. And then, I don't know, get some of that good, good element in your whatever. But it actually is not like if you see something, you'll find things that are supposedly made

out of it. It's usually an alloy because it's actually a fairly brittle metal. So you can't, it's hard to make something out of it alone. So in addition to doctors, and there was another group that was a big fan of really any of these kinds of toxic substances and trying to do things with them, and those were alchemists. Antimony was very popular among alchemists. In particular, the German alchemist Johann Thold, told the story that, and I guess he was kind of a famous charlatan of sorts. So he said

that at a local monastery, there was like a bolt of lightning that split open this pillar, this marble pillar, all of these, all these old texts that no one had found before came out and, and he collected them. And it was the basis for all kinds of alkym- Alkymical? Yeah, yeah. Advice and theory. In particular, there was one written by a monk, Basil Valentine, that had a nice one. This is probably a made-up person. Okay.

This is all probably fake. You gotta, hey, listen, my fellow, you gotta come up with more believable monk names than that. You can do better, I think than basal Valentine. So he had a lot of secret recipes in this book alchemy recipes and Antimony was a main component of them but that was also because probably because he was already like they already had strong beliefs in this so how convenient they found this ancient text that supported all of the things they were already saying. Believe it or not.

He was part of the Rosie Crucians, the Society of the Rosie Crucians, so we can ancient society that got into alchemy, and all kinds of various magical things in addition to actual academic study. I don't know, anyway. So he used this to promote his beliefs, and a lot of this was probably fraudulent, but it influenced a lot of scientists moving forward who dabbled in alchemy, including

Sir Isaac Newton, who bought into this so much he actually devoted in his career Newton devoted more time to studying Antimony than he did to studying gravity. Wow. And he created gravity. So that just tells you something. He didn't create it. But if you care about this kind of thing, I think this kind of interesting as a side note, the alchemical symbol for

Antimony is, if you look at it, it's like the upside down symbol for female, you know, the circle with the plus. It's that flipped around because I guess in alchemy, various elements, they kind of will describe like human characteristics and personalities to them, and it's thought to be a very feminine element for whatever reason. So it's very girly. I don't know. In case you, in case you, I saw it, and I was like, hey, that looks sort of like the female symbol, and then I read about it. I was like, ah, that's intentional. So.

The other medical use that arrived for Antimony, which was, this was actually only dates back to, I think, 1910 is the first time people started doing this. And then in the 1930s, it became an official treatment is for different parasitic infections. So they found that antimonyls drugs derived from antimony could be helpful in the treatment of two things at first, leachmonisis and chisdosamisis. Now we use other medicines for chisdos now, but leachmonisis, we actually, one of the treatments that is still in use today, is an antimonyl compound, a couple of them, sodium,

stibogluconate. What is that? Leach-domisis? It's a parasitic infection. Okay, got it. And and Meglamine antimoniate, but they're they're two different antimonide based medicines that are still used in combination with other things because they're actually finding some resistance to these things. The first one, Pinto Stam, is important to know it's also there's lots of side effects to these medicines. That one is very toxic to the veins. It's hard to you inject it and it can really destroy the veins

that you inject it into. And it has all kinds of side effects, like pancreatitis and nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, joint pains, dizziness. I mean, they're very toxic compounds, but they are still used as medications for this very serious infection that people can get that is very hard to treat.

And so you often have to use a combination of a lot of medications that some of them obviously have very unpleasant side effects. We do have, like I said, other drug for Chisdair now, we don't use that, but for Alicia Monaisis, you'll find it still listed. Other than that, antimony is mainly used, like 70%, I think if it's used today, is as a flame retardant. Okay, not a medical application necessarily.

Yeah, it's got some other industrial kind of applications as an alloy, and like bearings, and batteries, and things like that. Not a huge part of the pharmacopia as it were today. You will find it listed. I found there is this great site where they just list all the different elements from the periodic table and like they have pictures of different uses of the element, ways that it can appear and then things.

Like I found some of the goblets and jars and things that were supposedly made out of antimony and more in part made out of antimony on the site. And they also mention like, here's some things that are supposedly medicinal that will include antimony in its medicinal properties. For instance, Himalayan salt lamps, if you look at all of the things that they supposedly contain, Antimony is usually listed. Himalayan salt in general, like there was one specifically that listed 84 different, quote unquote, natural organic elements that they, that they were comprised of. And among them was Antimony. I will mention that in this particular Himalayan pink salt product, they also named plutonium and neptunium,

which not only do you not, I mean, you don't need those. In case, do I need to say that? You don't need that in your body. I've got it. They're also not naturally occurring, so... Except for like, nuclear fallout. Right. I guess if that is that I guess is that natural tactically. I don't think that's what they mean. And there was also I found an

immune boosting supplement that supposedly contains I don't know like 77 different elements that you need. And what is the antimum. Yeah, that's one of them. They also include valium, which is poisonous and talurium, which will make you smell like rotten onions. But the good news is that there's such a small amount of all these things in these pills that they just do nothing probably. I feel like you kind of filled on a rabbit hole

at the end of research in the set. Sydney, is that fair to say? I just found these weird things that I was just like, I think somebody, I think some of these fake medicines that people make, they just like Google, like what has ever been used as medicine and then they make a list of those things and stick them in pills and go,

this has ancient roots. Imagine. Paraselses, for the fans. Paraselses use this great puffy pill. Paraselses was a big fan and he said I am different. Let this not upset you Yeah, that t-shirt coming soon Okay, well folks that is gonna do it for us. I don't think my child will tolerate me holding her anymore She is not cooperating

She's supposed to be our third silent host and she has much to say today. Well, she's a lot of, well, she's a sleep host and then she decided halfway through that. She was not going to do that anymore. But thank you so much for listening. Thanks to the taxpayers for these sort of song medicines is the intro and outro of our program. She's not thinking anybody. No, she's all, no, no way. She's ungrateful. Thanks to Max Fletcher, who are having as far as their extended podcasting family. And thanks to you for listening. That is going to do for us this week, but until next time, my name is Justin McAroy.

I'm Sydney McAroy. As always, don't drill hole in your head. Oh, wait, wait, wait. One last thing, it's really cool, I promise. OK. The name Antimony may actually mean monk killer, maybe. Okay. Can I put the music now?

Yeah, go ahead, sorry. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and culture, artist owned. Listener supported. Now, I know as a max fund listener, you love enamel pins, but guess who are the first people to wear enamel pins? Everyone in Starfleet. We talk about them every week on our show,

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