Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Bee Venom Therapy

Episode Date: April 1, 2018

This week we've got bee venom therapy another Goop favorite, that despite all the Gwenecdotal evidence may not be worth the risk. Hopefully Dr. Sydnee and Justin's goofing will help take the sting out of it. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saabones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We were shot through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines, the escalant macaque for the mouth. Wow! Hello everybody, welcome to Saul Bones, we're going to your a misguided medicine. I'm your co-host Justin McElroy and I'm Sydney McElroy Well, she's on her grind again Who me? Nope not Sydney. I'm you are on your grind again not Cooper Cooper's doing her thing sleeping She just had a great bath and a great. A great poop and then a great bath. And now she is passed out in my arms. Na, guinea pig.

Oh, no. GP. GP. That's how she signs her little general practitioner with a soldier GP. She's, you know, she doesn't mean that to be misleading. I'm going to give her that. Like, I don't think she, I don't think she has anyone., well outside of the US, it's used a lot more frequently. Okay. But yeah.

Yes. Go on with Paltrow. This is actually, I'm going to get into how Goon with Paltrow is attached to this story by the end. I promise. This is actually an older recommendation of her. So we're going to cover this week. We're going to go to the Boneyard, front some classic deep cuts. The reason is that there was a story in the news just this last week or two that sparked this episode. A lot of people had already recommended this topic, so this isn't out of nowhere, but let's get into it.

I want to talk about apathy therapy. Okay. Apathy. Apathy. Apathy. recommended this topic. So this isn't like out of nowhere. But let's get into it. I want to talk about apathy therapy. Apathy. Apathy. Apathy. Apathy. No. Okay. I bet you could figure out that route word, route No, api. No api. Well, this is going to go now. You're going to Google it and pretend like you knew. Google it. Just going to say that having to do with bugs, bees, having to do with bugs. Bees. Bees. Having to do with bees. Of all relating to bees.

Yeah. Okay, so it's like bee stuff therapy. Kip bee junk repair. Yeah, it's, it's, it broadly refers to the use of any kind of bee product to treat disease. Okay. And like I said, there's a recent story that I want to start with, but Stephanie, Annie, Dana, and Brendan have also suggested this topic in the past, just took us as long to get around to it.

So thank you. Thank you. So, like I said, we have talked about honey before. That's not new, and that would be considered a B product, I think. Probably the primary B product that... Yeah, one of the top five B products we've been product that we use. I hate to choose favorites, but it's definitely up there. But so I'm not going to go back into honey because we have a whole episode on it and if you

haven't listened to it, the long and short of it is, honey actually works for some stuff. Yeah, it is demulsant. It's good for wound healing. So, in some cases, so that there are some actual medical uses for certain kinds of honey. So if you want to know more about that, we have a whole episode about it. Go listen to that one. Yeah. And if you're all right, listen, download it again, sucker. But we're not going to, we're not going to talk about that.

I'm going to talk about the other B products. So let me tell you this story. This is why, this is why this has sparked my interest at this moment. There was a recent case report published that tells the story of a 55 year old woman in Spain who was receiving regular B-acupuncture treatments. regular B-acupuncture treatments. Now, what just tell me what you think that means and you're probably going to be right. Like acupuncture, except B using B singers to sing the plays. Now, acupun I think means in the right place, right?

How are we getting bees to be like, a little too little of jury? Like, so we acu anything, let's be. I found this term, bee acupuncture. I actually, I also found the term, apupuncture, apupuncture. Does that happen? I don't know about the prefix AP.

I guess I just did a Verlaine TV. APupuncture. Yeah. But yeah, unless it means completely random, about the prefix AP. I guess I just did a really into these. Yeah. But yeah, it doesn't mean it's completely random. That's where you're being sung. So this one was receiving B-stings, B-acupuncture treatments for muscle pain. She had a lot of muscular pain.

And that is one of, we'll talk about all the things that it is used for, but this is one of the things that it is. And I'm not saying treats one of the things it is used for, but this is one of the things that it is, and I'm not saying treats, one of the things it is used for. And she had an anaphylactic reaction to the beastings, and she unfortunately died. There are some complicating factors, the health center where she was having this done, which was not like a hospital or necessarily any kind

of doctor's office, just a health center. The way she was having this performed, they did not have at the Neffron. Hey y'all. Hey y'all, it's Justin. Hi, I'm from America, I do a podcast. That's not to say, like we have figured have figured out America just by way of introducing myself. I'm sure you don't have an epic in so hey, look under the candles.

Hey, can we take a second, just dig under the candles and make sure that your beasting factory does not have an epic in it. Now, I know they're, but like, right, we're not going to throw too much shade because I can see that happening in the US, not because you didn't know or think to have an epi pin, but because, you know, they're prohibitively expensive for so many people. The life savings, you know, that's prohibitively expensive. Yeah, for sure. I'm no doubt that's a total crime. Let's go ahead and fold that into the startup costs of our freaking bee sting resort. That's true. They made me have epipins on hand when you were like just looking at some tarantulas on your TV show. Yes. And that wasn't that didn't even really

make any sense, but like I did it. Yeah, yeah. Two epipins. Ready. Off camera. In my holsters. Yeah, you have two happy pins. Ready off camera. In my holsters. So, they didn't have any epinephrine and it took the ambulance like a half an hour to get there. I don't know all the reasons, the location, I don't know. But the point is there were complicating factors. One way or another though, a woman was receiving what was being called a medical treatment

and she had a predictable reaction and a flaxis, and she unfortunately passed away. Now this is very sad, and I'm sorry for her family, it's all the tragedy. Is it weird that she had an antiflactor response like if she'd been having this regularly, isn't this the kind of thing that you do or you don't? This is actually the kind of, no, this is predictable and can happen.

Cool. Where you do not have a reaction the first time you're stung by a B or even the second time, it can happen if you have continued random exposures to a certain trigger. Some people can develop sensitivity over time and have an anaphylactic reaction. I'm not going to say that it's common, it certainly isn't. But, see, if you don't think you're allergic to bees, eventually there could be one that gets you. Is that what you're telling me right now about bees? It is much more likely in a case like this where you're intentionally repeatedly being exposed

to bees. At a random schedule with random doses and all that kind of stuff. At a random schedule, it's every Tuesday at four. Or I can't even be myself, let's have my bee things for that week. And we'll get more into that, but let me take a step back because if you're interested in bee therapy, there are different B products that people use and have used for a long time. We talked about the long, long history of honey.

Well, honey is not the only B thing that people have used for health reasons. We talked about B venom is also called apatoxin, apatoxin. And it contains some proteins that can trigger an inflammatory response, especially if you're allergic. Obviously, even if you're not allergic to bee things, you get an inflammatory response, you get like a little red bump and it hurts

and it gets swollen and... Yeah, it's unpleasant. But obviously, it's much worse for some people. There's also propolis, which is a mixture of B spit and B wax. And it's used as like a sealant on the hive. Like it's all, it seals up all the little holes. It's like if bees dipped. It's like a resin. Okay. Yeah. And then they like put it all over the hive to like hold it all together. Okay. And then there's also royal jelly. You've probably heard of royal jelly.

Yes, I have heard we got some, we've gotten some Christmas before. Yes, and my dad takes it off from us. He hoards all of our royal jelly. Wow, about this stuff. He is to use on his face, I think I'm just going to say face. I don't want to know where else my dad used this for. Let's not talk about that. Let's forget we ever had that part of the conversation.

New episode. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Solvans. So Royal Jelly is a secretion from certain glands in the bee that is fed. It's actually fed. I always thought it was just fed to the queen. It's actually fed to all the bees, but the queens, like, they develop in it. Like, I saw, you can see pictures of this, like little pools of royal jelly with queen B larva in it. Like, develop a lot. Because I think any bee can become a queen bee if she believes in herself.

No, if she, a queen of tower banks. If she is, if she can smile, if she models H2T and if she is submerged in royal jelly when she's a larva. Is that the sequel? That is the plot of model Lantu. God God I can't wait for that book to come out

so So these are all all these things supposedly have had medical applications for a really long time royal jelly as I've already kind of mentioned is very popular in skincare a lot of people say it makes you look younger and Mirror skin firmer and has more elasticity and that kind of thing There a lot of alternative medicine sites, for instance, on the internet that will advertise it for everything from allergies to Alzheimer's, to menopause, to diabetes, sperm production. It's commonly recommended if you are worried about fertility or virility or you just want

more sperm because you like them. We're actually recommended for that. There's no clear mechanism of action for this. Like why would this substance do these things? Yeah, we don't know. And there's no real strong evidence that any of that works. Propolis is supposedly effective for a couple of different things. Oral health, like any kind of dental disorders, stomach health, any disorders of the stomach. And you know something to sketchy when they just start saying, it's good for stomach

stuff, it's good for like gynecological stuff. And then it's also recommended for some cancers. Is it though by whom? Um, by people who don't have any degrees related to medicine. Oh, so is that so you tell me that degrees or knowledge about medicine is what qualify someone to advise what medicines do you take? Yeah. Okay.

Is there more to that question? There are no two. I want to focus mainly on BVT, BVNM therapy, because this was the one that I found the most intriguing, because it seems so counterintuitive. I don't like to get stung by bees. Okay. Do you?

My lifestyle is such fast. Have you never been stung by a bee? No, I have. In my younger days, I definitely was stung by a bee. My lifestyle is such that it would need to be like a B would need to come to our home and have interests in like leasing half of my office for like a co-working situation. And then eventually I would just accidentally sit on him or something like I don't know the situation that would lead to me being sung by a B at this point in my

life. Did you ever get yelled at for running around outside without shoes on because you might you might step on a B and absolutely and then did you step on a B had did happen. Yeah. See, I was yelled at frequently. I might yell that I was instructed firmly to put on shoes. So I didn't step on a B never stepped on a B ran around barefoot a lot. Yeah. My parents were mainly just gized that I was outside. So, BVNM therapy, you can either administer it from the B's directly or you can get injections

of collected BVNM. And it is used even to this day. You'll see people claim that it's good for arthritis, specifically multiple sclerosis, MS. Guys. And then again, you see some people recommending it for cancer. Now the use of this dates back to ancient times, the ancient Egyptians, the Greeks, it was used in ancient Chinese medicine.

It was advised by all of the big hitters, Hippocrates, Plenty, Galen, Celseus. Of course, they all agreed on only one use, and that was gout. Okay. They all said it was good for gout. Plenty through in there that he also thought it was probably good for boldness. Probably if a big is there. Probably. If you just stung on the head by a B. It's hard to say. I see you got

stuck by B. You got a little patch from in there. It's nice. He also said honey was good for that, which I mean, if you're giving me the option between the two honey. And you see like throughout all these different recommendations throughout history mainly for like rheumatism arthritis, basically aches and pains and that kind of stuff. You see it used to see their like live beastings. They They take dead bee carcasses and powder them and put them on people. Take extracts of the venom to inject and then just even eat bee bodies. Bee bodies, yeah, or rub them on your joints.

All kinds of variations in this. It was used for acne for a while. Just have bee sting your face, which leads to red well, right? And then you can say, oh, it's not acne, it's just beasting. Oh, I cured my acne. This is just a lot of beasting. You should just beasting. My face is just covered in beasting.

No acne. What? No. What are you wild? No. There's no acne here. Look above my face. It's all a beast.

They're just highly attractive bee stings. They're just cool bee stings. Do you see how they form the pattern of a unicorn? This is a skull. Is a skull, it's a very particular. It's documented that Charlemagne would receive bee sting therapy for gout. There is also some evidence in the 1500s

that bee stings were advised for things like kidney stones and like issues urinating. Just get some bee stings. Just get some bee, get a bee in there. Um, and you see as late as like the 1700s, it popped back up as a recommended cure for baldness again. Okay, sure. I really feel like somebody must have gotten sung by a bee and grew some hair later and just threw off medical science for a long time. Yeah, like they're having a few for this like,

did pan out in some way. The legend to be perpetrated that long. It really started to pick up steam in the 1800s and that's kind of what I wanna focus on next. Okay, tell me. How long? It really started to pick up steam in the 1800s, and that's kind of what I want to focus on next. Okay, tell me. But before I do that, oh man. Let's head to the building department.

Let's go. The medicines, the medicines that ask you lift my car before the mountain. My name is Ryan, and I love Ono Ross and Kerry. I'm Megan, and I love solbums. I have a genuine love for the investigations of paranormal claims. No matter what they talk about, no matter how gross it is, no matter what the syndrome or whatever they're talking about, they find a way to make it funny. It is smart, it's not brutally honest, it's professionally honest.

I've realized I was listening to almost every podcast you guys put out. No, but at least I could do with Give Something Back. I became a Max Fund member because I wanted to support the things that I was getting so much entertainment and joy from. These are listeners just like you, and they support Sobhones and Ono Ross and Carey with a Max Fund membership. The 2018 Max Fund Drive is April 2nd through 13th, and if you want to support your favorite shows too, it's the best time to sign up or upgrade your membership. Just tune in starting April 2nd and we'll give you all of the details. Now you were about to tell me about some 19th century promotion, RE-B Venom.

some 19th century corrosion, R-E-B venom. So in the 19th century, we see the use of B venom, kind of spreading like west, westward hoe. Here comes B venom. What's that on the wind? By then, it was actually interesting. There was folk wisdom that beekeepers never got arthritis. This was like just one of those common like little tidbits. Like, oh, well, you must be a beekeeper.

You don't get arthritis. You know, like people say, when people say that, about beekeepers. For sure. And that was because of this association with getting stung by bees and it being helpful for arthritis.

You also started seeing people who were bringing acupuncture to the West doing it with bee therapy, doing it with bees, which at the time, I don't know. So I guess it's a good time to kind of describe the way that it developed. Sure. Because you said that about like, we're just randomly gets sung by bees and that's what I envisioned at first is you just put somebody in a room with a bunch of bees

and like hope they get stung. Mm-hmm. Like tell them to like insult the bees maybe, throw things, something to make the bees mad, call names, show them the news for more than five minutes. No, but the way that it works is you actually have to hold the bee and lower it down and like place it on the person's skin. And what I read is that as soon as you let go, the B will have been frightened

from, I guess, being held by a very large mammal and will instantly sting the surface it's land, it's land time. And then later dying. Yeah. The stingers stay in. They're removed 24 hours later. So you just leave them there for 24 hours. Pleasant, but also the B dies. Yeah, it sings one time at beef sit. That's a really terrible. I didn't think about all of the B fatalities. Yeah, how about all the B fatalities? Yeah.

Also, the next time you want to do it again, you gotta go out and catch a bunch more. It's not very fun. But we got a lot of clover fields near your house. Considering how we're trying to like preserve bees. Yeah, can we not? Maybe send them on from a car to me and focus now. It's not a car to me until just now.

So anyway, so you could go to an appapuncturist and they would, and that's how that, that's how it would work. They would hold a bee and then it would put it on your skin in the place that they wanted to apply. So that's, that's where the accuracy comes in. They could put it in the same places that they would place acupuncture needles. Okay. And they would sting you. And then that was it. Certainly, you could be more accurate

if you were extracting venom from bees and then using needles to inject it. Okay. But that wasn't traditionally how it was being done. In 1888, a book was published a report about a peculiar connection between the bee stings and rheumatism by Philip Turk, who was an Austrian physician. And this really kind of codified this like folk medicine tradition that it was being passed down and a lot of people kind of did it. But this was the first time like it was put in print Widely enough that everybody read it and said like oh well

I'm excited by this peculiar connection In 1935 dr. Bodoge F. Beck, don't rush on past that little gem, sir. Why don't you give it one more pass and give it the relish and omph it deserves. Uh, Bodog. Dr. Bodog F Beck. Guess what the F stands for. Did you guess? I don't think that's what it stands for.

Francis! So he brought... Of course he did. Of course, Bodog brought it to the US. To be a Bodog back on the 7th and 9th got traffic. Bodog back. So he brought it to the US for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis. And then from there we started seeing another physician Charles Moraz start recommending it

for the use of autoimmune diseases. And then that's kind of where you saw it spread from like arthritis to specifically like rheumatoid arthritis and then for M.S. and all kinds of diseases of like the joints and connective tissues and that kind of thing. Now, here's kind of the theoretical and the real science behind this. Okay. Because I think what's unfortunate, as the more I read about it, the more I found that

there's some really intriguing things about B. Venom, It's just that it's not like what we think, what we think is true isn't. It's not a panacea. Right. That's nothing ever is. I mean, it really is. So the idea is that Bvenum has anti-inflammatory properties, which is weird considering that it has specifically

inflammatory properties. Like it is specifically, it induces inflammation. Right. And that it can block pain receptors as well. Okay. And they have, they have seen some of these effects, both in, in vitro and in small animal models. They've seen some ways that it like activates and blocks pain receptors briefly in intriguing patterns.

They're not entirely sure why. Then that could theoretically, if you just saw that, you might think, oh, well, maybe it would have blocked pain in a human. There are some intriguing things about bevenum for sure. When they've tried to replicate these studies in humans, one, you're not gonna find any large scale studies. Like nobody's doing this head-to-head with like, I'd be profanin' and seeing what works better or something.

Well, nobody wants to waste all the bees. And a lot of people don't wanna get stung by bees. Oh, weird. And the results typically have not been statistically significant. So you gotta be careful. I noticed this in a lot of the studies that at the end they'll conclude that there is something to it. And if you read the numbers, what they saw was a correlation, but the numbers actually,

so what you have to calculate in a study is how likely is this to have happened by chance. If there is a difference between the two groups, between the group of patients who got b-venom and the group of patients who didn't. Which are almost certainly will be of some amount. How likely is it that this would just have occurred by chance versus actually indicating some therapeutic benefit? And the majority of the studies didn't show any,

any like, it was not statistically significant. So it could have just been by chance. And that's also another hard thing to sham treat. Like if you think about the group of patients who are getting a pill or nothing versus the group of patients are getting pinched. Well, that's the thing. Like you would have to like apply stings in the wrong place or apply something that you think is a bee sting, but isn't. It'd be very hard, in which acupuncture,

it's hard to do that in general. We've talked about that before. It's hard to do sham acupuncture. You just basically are putting needles in the wrong place. Right. But I mean, either way, you're getting stuck with needles or stuck with something. You're right.

It'd be a hard study to blind. And when you start to look at objective results, then you start really seeing a lack of evidence. Anytime they have said there was a difference, it was subjective. So it was asking people afterwards, do you think you hurt less and them going, yeah, I think I do.

And I'm not saying that people lie. I would never suggest that. You guys really get me shot at my elbow, right? The people that are selling my elbow, right? Because they definitely do feel like my name. But are you guys saying the elbow? I believe you. But we know how good on the way. We know how powerful placebo can be. And if the patients who agreed to this study already believed in Bivenom therapy, how likely they may be to to experience results one way or the other, which is great, but doesn't mean you should get stoned by bees. MS studies have not shown results that are that that that that it is helpful. And that's really important because you will see a lot of claims to the contrary that this is used as

a treatment for MS. No, yes, people will tell you that and people are falling victim to that, but they have never shown a reduction in the plaques that form on the brain and spinal cord. They've never been able to show any improvement in that in patients who've received B-Vin and therapy. So, even though you will see that lie again and again and again, it's not. There have been patients who subjectively say they think they feel better afterwards, but it's not actually halting the disease process. There have been some shingles patients, patients who got zoster, shingles, and fibromyalgia patients

and rheumatoid arthritis patients, again, who've reported subjective improvement, but nothing that we could test or objectively clock or anything like that. And this is used way more sensibly outside the US. So you'll see a lot of these studies have been published outside the US and are not being done here. There are just aren't as many cases of it here. There aren't as many patients who have bought into it at this point. Now, before you start B therapy, B even in therapy, you're supposed to challenge the patient to see if they are allergic. Yes, that seems like a good step.

Not just take their word for it. You're supposed to actually test them for a B allergy. And B allergies are pretty rare. So if you're testing and asking and statistically they're rare, most people are probably going to be okay. But sometimes as I already mentioned, sensitization can occur, and that can be very unpredictable. So you can have patients who have received weekly treatments for years, and then all of a sudden have an anaphylactic reaction. And I think that's where you have to really come down on if there is this possible risk, even if it's small,

then you better have some really compelling benefit if you're gonna try a treatment. Because all treatments have risks. I mean, that's usually what, at this point, somebody who practices alternative medicine would look at me and say, well, all treatments have risk. Absolutely, they do. But we don't

recommend them unless the benefits outweigh the risks. And so far for BVN of therapy, we're not seeing that to be the case. There was a case in 2003 of a 34 year old man who received B acupuncture for pain in his back because he had a bulging disc. He had planned four sessions. The first time he got 50 stings to his upper back, they were left in for 24 hours and removed. The next week it was the same treatment. The third week he got 60 stings to his back and butt. And then on the fourth week he got 70 stings all up and down his spine. Some number of hours later he began to experience vomiting and difficulty breathing and he became severely ill. He had, he became,

he made it dynamically unstable. Meaning his blood pressure dropped very low. He became unresponsive. He was transferred to the hospital. He was put on a ventilator. Eventually, they were able to get him off, but he was found to have had a hemorrhage in his brain. As a result of what was probably like an anaphylactic reaction that was triggered. From all the beast things. Exactly. In 2011, a 35 year old woman receiving

beaven therapy for multiple sclerosis developed liver injury. She came in severely jaundiced and was in possible liver failure. She was treated and recovered. But I think when you see these cases, and I'm, you know, so far, I've not seen any compelling evidence that it works. Right. Why would you do that? And again, this was endorsed a few years ago on Goop by Gwyneth Paltrow herself. She puts these little notes on some of the articles, like if she actually tried the therapy and is like, hey there, kiddos, I use Beven of Therapy for some pain. Yeah, well, she signs them GP. There's some pain I was having and it just worked great.

And so now I'm going to tell you all about B stuff. So she is endorsed it saying she used it herself and that it was helpful. What I kind of alluded to, I want to invent a new thing and I think this is going to really catch on. It's called, clinic total evidence. I like that. Thank you. And basically what it means is, Gwyneth Poucher says something worked and there's no other evidence than you have clinic total evidence. There have been, this is what I was saying. There have been some studies in recent years, these were published I think in 2014,

or researchers actually isolated the components of B venom that seem to have some positive effects. They synthesize them. And so in doing this, by taking out the things that you think are helpful and then creating them synthetically, you're removing all that bad crap that keeps hurting people, which is like, I mean, key if you're developing a, do the least harm, therapeutic treatment. So they synthesize these compounds and they started using them against cancer cells

actually delivered by nanoparticles Okay, yeah, they've actually found some ways to create like nanobes. Yes to deliver these compounds. Oh my god I was feeling so disheartened and then this episode really turned around the end with the presence of nanobes Yes, and they found some around the end with the presence of nanobies. Yes. And they found some evidence that they were effective in targeting cancer cells. Now, of course, these compounds could do no stop right there. Wait, no, no, no, this is also good, this is all good science. These compounds could do damage to healthy cells,

just like any chemotherapy could. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, noarticles come in. The nanobes are, they're like smart bees, they deliver it directly to the cancer cells, which is, I mean, that's where we're trying to get with cancer therapy, right? Better at targeting the bad cells and less destruction of the good cells, which means less side effect and less damage to the body. And they have found some intriguing in vitro studies. So the next step are animal studies and then human studies.

This is a long way off. But I think this is an example where I volunteer to distribute to get the nanobase. I think this is a really great example of where there is a truth in all this. There is a real scientific truth that we could all be really fascinated and excited by. But when it's covered up with all this. There's a real scientific truth that we could all be really fascinated and excited by, but when it's covered up with all this junk, with all the pseudo-scientific junk, and people who

are exploiting that for financial gain, because if you think all of these people who are administering Bivenham therapy are doing it for free out of the kindness of their hearts. Say it. No. the kindness of their hearts. Say it. No. And I think that's unfortunately, it hides what might be a really fascinating scientific discovery underneath. And it can be really hard, even as a physician, somebody with like a medical background, to wade through all that, to try to figure out what the truth is.

And so if you don't have any, you know medical background or scientific training It's almost impossible to to figure out what what is true and what is not and that's very frustrating I guess where we come back to is the nanobies will fix everything So thank everybody for listening to this episode of nanobies a new podcast that's just about nanobies now We hope you enjoyed it Sorry to just have those you want to say I have to say that I think that the bottom line is, please don't get stung by B's intentionally. I mean, I'd rather you not even get stung by B's accidentally because that hurts. But if you were considering being intentionally

stung by B's, my advice would be don't. So back to Nana B's. Thank you, all the Nana B's that listen to the show. That's so cool. It makes me feel really cool that I made something that y'all would like. Next week's the max fun drive is going to kick off. It's going to be fun. We got some cool episodes lined up. We're going to have gifts. We're going to a just just joyous time as a family and if you like solbos and you want to support us This is it folks. This is the moment. This is the time So get pumped get sight where we've got great stuff for you for the whole Two weeks and we hope you enjoy it You know you know you were gonna get a lot of mileage the next time you're out with your buddies and you start home about nanobase, so Thank you. Yes

That thanks to taxpayers for letting us use this all medicines is the internet over a program and thanks to you You're the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you That is gonna do it for us this week. So until next time My name is just McRoy. I'm sitting McRoy and it's always don't drill a hole in your head My name is just Mac Roy. I'm Sticky Mac Roy. And it's always don't drill a hole in your head. Unless it's with Nanopies. If you get a bunch of Nanopies,

No, no, no. Alright!