Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Chocolate

Episode Date: February 18, 2015

This week on Sawbones, Dr. Sydnee and Justin take a sunrise and sprinkle it with dew. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

Saabones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books! One, two, one, two, three, four! We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We were shot through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines, the escalant macaque for the mouth. Wow, everybody, welcome to Saw Bones, Metal Tour of Miscite and Medicine. For the mouth Welcome to saw bones metal tour of misguided medicine. I'm your co-host Justin McAroy and I'm Sydney McAroy Sydney happy-belated Valentine's Day. Oh, I mean I wish you Happy Valentine's day on the day. You did you did you not only wish me happy Valentine's day You got me a Valentine and candy well Well, chocolate. Yeah. Not candy. I don't know. Was it? Yeah.

I don't know. You make a call. I'm not a ridiculous classifier. It was wonderful. Justin had delivered to me a platter of chocolate covered Oreos and nutterbotters and graham crackers and pretzels. It's really hard once you're married to buy chocolate for the other person,

because especially if you're like trying to watch what you eat, because you're basically saying, like, well, this is at our house for a while now. Now you have this to continue with. Yeah, because I mean, I'm not gonna eat all of that. That would be bad. So I'm gonna have to jump in there and I'll feel obligated to help out and do my part.

You know, it's always nice to, is my dad has gotten me a heart-shaped box of chocolates every Valentine's Day, for as long as I've been allowed to eat chocolate. That's sweet. Yes. That's nice. I gotta do that for chocolate, when she's,

I mean, now would not be good. No, don't give her chocolate now. She's six months old, she can't eat chocolate. I have, we have been eating a considerable amount of chocolate though. I'll be honest. Despite my best efforts. Well, you know, that's not completely bad for you. Oh yeah. There is some possible small health benefits to chocolate or at least people have thought so for a long time. So you're saying it's a health food? No. I'm I know. No, no, I'm not saying chocolate is a health food. I'm gonna say that several times, I think.

This one weird food will make you live 20 years long or it is chocolate. No, no, that's not what you're gonna get if you click on that link on Facebook. I don't know actually, I don't know what you're gonna get. Probably Garcinia, Kim, Bojia, probably. I don't know. How is it clicked on it?

And what makes chocolate the world's greatest health food, Timmy? Okay, it's not, but let's talk about chocolate because for a long time now, not just currently, but for a long time, we thought that it was a medicine of sorts. And before I get into this, I wanna thank Adam for recommending this topic. Thanks Adam.

He thought it would be a good Valentine's Day topic and we're close enough. There is. It's after. We're still within the, I don't know, perimeter of Valentine's Day. So people have been, first of all, chocolate goes back a long time. Sure. Aztecs. Largely when we talk about early uses of chocolate, we're mainly talking about it as a drink.

People would take the cocoa beans and then crush them and add hot water and there with some sort of like, it's a kind of like hot chocolate drink or sometimes a cold chocolate drink, but something, but a beverage. So largely as we're talking about chocolate in ancient times and then throughout history, we're mainly talking about drinking chocolate. And then I'll tell you when we start switching to other forms. It dates back as far as 600 BC. And as you kind of alluded to, it was mainly in the Americas first.

So in Mexico and in Central America, it actually reached Europe because Cortez brought it back after visiting the Native peoples there and discovering this amazing brown gold as it was sometimes called. Brown gold. Which, personally, I like chocolate a lot, so I think I would call gold like gold like yellow chocolates. I mean given the choice between the two. Slide a little bit of that yellow chocolate on the finger, man. We are getting hitched. I'd rather have that. In the early American cultures, it was a very precious drink. It wasn't something that you or I would probably have access to. We aren't fancy enough. No, we are not of high enough stature.

Mana Zuma drank it, famous for the revenge. He drank it before sex to give him energy and stamina because it was thought to provide both of those things. Yeah, I worked. You know, you say chocolate is the food of life. We're quoting the room now. It's gonna be a good episode. I like where we're going In general, it was seen as a strengthening drink that it was it would give you a lot of vigor. Yes And for that reason it was not suitable for women and children Only for men right who needed to be strong You give women and children too much stamina. Who knows what's gonna happen?

I don't know. They're gonna not be oppressed by men. I guess, but that's what our seekers is the whole time men. He's been chocolate. Keeping, if you're... He's been women and kids away from chocolate. He's been eating women and children away from chocolate.

You've done a really bad job. I think chocolate is primarily marketed to women and children. Yeah. It fixes every problem women have according to love commercials. Yeah, that's not true, but that's okay. If you drink too much chocolate, it could make you deranged, or at least that was the thought. Now drinking too much could make you deranged, or so it was thought, but- Too much vigor, too much vim. Yes, you just get, like, so much energy.

Well, flip a table. But in moderation, it was invigorating. And you could use it for anything. Angina, dysentery, dental problems, indigestion, constipation fatigue, hemorrhoids, it cured kidney disease. Didn't. No, but they used it for other things.

We have evidence that it was used for all of these things. Sometimes you get a little carried away, and you forget your old-timey, well, dittins. I guess you could call them the dittins, where you'd say they didn't do this. And instead, you'd just swept up in the meathouse that you say that they didn't. It did all this stuff.

It didn't. No, it didn't. And it was very much seen, I think, in these cultures, as like a spiritual thing, it was this amazing tasty beverage that probably made you healthy in a lot of ways. It wasn't formalized until it was brought over to Europe, probably in the 16th century. First, via Spain, it was, of course, brought it back to the King of Spain. And then as it spread throughout Europe, people began to see it in light of what was then the system of medicine

for humors. Right. So just to review, because we kind of referenced it a lot, but I don't think we've talked about the four humors for a while. So we've done a four humors episode. We've never done an episode just for humor. So just in general, we used to think that all medicine was the result of, or all medicine was based on the idea that the human body had four different fluids in it, basically, blood, black, bio, yellow, bio, and flim. And if you had all of those things in the proper balance,

you were healthy, and if they got out of balance, you got sick. So it's pretty much, pretty much the gist of it. Got it. Now, what went along with that was also this belief that people had different, like, climates. Individual people had different climates? Well, it depends on what age you were.

So for instance, babies and little kids were hot and humid, young adults were hot and dry, adults were cold and dry, and old people were cold and humid. And when you get your humorous out of balance, these natural climates get out of whack, and then you need to eat or drink something that's kind of the opposite in order to balance it. Okay.

Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. When you get to eat to me pretzels, you get a little bit of a dry mouth and you need something to balance it out, like a frosty soda. I'm sorry, do you mean peasels? Peasels, some may sell to you some peasels and you get a frost-chip, and so on, so to just wash it all down. That's similar. That's similar, right? Yeah, basically.

Yeah, I mean, that's generally because Coco was seen as cool and dry, and it would ward off hot human conditions. It works in the York peppermint patty commercials from way back then. That's true. They make it sound like eating something with chocolate and it is a very crisp cool Refreshing, yeah, and it's I mean nothing against your peppermint patties like I like them. I Don't think I mean it's refreshing. I don't think there's chocolate with candy

I need one the size of a dinner plate because they're so thin. I thought I'm not eating anything ever It doesn't matter how big they are either. I get one of those big ones It's like what I just do that wasn't a candy bar I thought I'm not eating anything ever. It doesn't matter how big they are either. I get one of those big ones. It's like, what did I just do? That wasn't a candy bar. You know, like you just get put in a shape that I understand. When you say you need one the size of a dinner plate. I need one the size of a dinner plate

for it to be satisfying. Okay. I think you'd feel awful. I get the sensation, but I want the other sensation of being full from a York peppermint paddy. You'd get the sensation that you were going to spend the rest of the day throwing up. No, I would. I feel great. So fresh.

Woo. Like, whizzy now mountain slope on ice and snow. Nobody has eaten a York peppermint paddy. The size of a dinner plate and felt like skiing afterwards. Nobody better ever eaten the size of a dinner plate and felt like skiing after work. Nobody better ever eaten the size of your peppermint patty the size of a dinner plate period because nobody called me about it to say, Jamie, you got to get up in this. And I've made my desire to eat a giant York peppermint patty very clear. Okay.

Well, that everyone knows. So the word is out. Peabox 54. I'm going to request for you in the next five, seven, six. If you come across. Please don't giant your favorite value. The size of a dinner plate is going to be size of a five. Please do not do this. Thank you. Okay, so you could just take chocolate alone, cocoa alone, or you could add different things to it depending on what sickness you had.

So alone, for instance, you would make your cocoa beverage, your chocolate, and it could treat liver disease or breast issues in general or stomach problems. So that's a big list. If you add gum to it, you can stop diarrhea. If you add corn and vanilla, and then make a paste out of it and then put it on you or maybe eat it, I'm not sure. Then it's an aphrodisiac, I'm going to guess eat it because if you're covered in corn, chocolate, vanilla paste, well, I don't know. You can kind of want your into.

Maybe. Okay. There's a bunch of other like herbs and plants you could mix it with, and it would fatten people up. And chocolate was generally seen that way throughout the centuries. If somebody was sickly and thin and had something that was causing them to waste away,

chocolate was a good food for them. They would fatten them up. But you gotta go by how you feel, right? So sometimes you feel Like a nut in your chocolate and sometimes you you don't Right, right. I think this probably predates all men's joys But not mounds mounds were down here Most mounds you see were made in the dark ages you can find all kinds of recipes for

Most mouths you see were made in the dark ages. You can find all kinds of recipes for your health chocolate, for your medicinal chocolate. Just friggin' scroll Pinterest, you're gonna hit the finoa, use this ancient chocolate blend to help cure depression. Yes, I want to you, but thank you. Do you appreciate the effort? One that I've found, and this is a great recipe.

This is specifically for people who are sick, but not with a fever. So if they have some sort of illness, but not one that has a fever, careful. You could use cocoa, sugar, cinnamon, vanilla, cloves, anise, chili powder, and server-diss-a-warm drink, and you could also add almonds if you wanted to. So wait, sometimes, if you feel like a nut.

Okay. The thing is, that's, I mean, that sounds delicious. Yeah, it sounds restorative, I would say. So I mean, except for the in these. Oh, you don't eat it. But this sounds like a delicious spicy chocolate drink. Yeah, this is, this would be great. I can see why you would want to drink this.

And curative, too, see the other thing. And the part of the reason that the view of chocolate as something that was medicinal was very important as it flourished in different countries in Europe because religious groups started denouncing it pretty quickly. Chocolate was seen as something decadent, it did, because largely because people tended to add things like sugar to it, it could make you invigorated,

it was seen as something connected to sexual feelings. So it would encourage sinful impulses was the fear. So if you just drank it without having to for a medicinal reason, you were seen as kind of being sinful or as giving into a sinful impulse. So you needed a doctor to prescribe it to you in order to get away with it.

It's like, I don't know, marijuana. Right. It was medicinal chocolate. It was medicinal chocolate. No, no, no, it's cool. I have glaucoma. I have a license for this chocolate. I have prescriptions.

So as a result of this, doctors expanded it to use to everything. It was a diuretic, meaning it would make you pee, it was an expectorant, so it would make you cough or break stuff up. If you mixed it, this is probably a less favorable recipe, if you mixed it with ground human skull, musk and ambergris. That's what's in the watchman call it.

So now you know there's your answer. There's the ingredients of what you're calling. We those are not in fact the ingredients of a watchman call it. Whoever makes that, please don't sue us. But the ambergris. So ambergris is this is gross. It's a waxy substance that is produced in the digestive track of sperm whales. And it was largely used as a perfume base, like a fixative for perfume.

Nowadays we usually don't use that, we use synthetic things, but you still could use it for that. So, if you wanted to mix that with some human skull musk and chocolate, that would be good for hypokondria. Largely because I think if you gave somebody this, they'd go, I'm not ever sick again. I'm never, I'm fine. No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I said I was sick. As it spread throughout Europe, there were three main areas and I kind of alluded to this that it was used in in medicine. It was weight gain for the sickly.

It stimulated the nervous system. So for people who felt like fatigue, or just kind of puny, wimpy people, and it improved your digestion. Oh, whereas one, I like this one quote from a French doctor. Therefore, the use of chocolate is salubrious. It excites and strengthens with its warm mild juiciness. The bow is inborn, warmth and strength.

It helps digestion. It fosters the spread of food and the secretion of the unnecessary. It accumulates fat. It is not an enemy to the brain. It is Venus' friend and very suitable for body and soul. That's nice. You couldn't fill that in a wrapper, but it's nice. No.

I mean, I think some of that, yeah, sure. I think chocolate is very suitable for body and soul. Yeah. The Grand Duke for Nando Yudimidici found it great for flatulence. So, which he felt the need to record for his scribe. So we can all know that now. Write this down. There was this great spread of chocolate over, you know, over the continent of Europe.

There was finally some pushback against it when it hit Florence and it hit Florence in a big way. Flore, the, the, Flore, Flore, Floridians. Floridians. Floridians. I know how to tell you. That's Florida. Italians. Yes. I know that's Florida. Italians. Yes. We're way into chocolate. Um, and in the 18th century, there was a doctor there, Dr. Giovanni Batista Felicci, also known as the great chocolate accuser. Oh, that is what a distinction that is. And he thought cocoa, basically, he didn't think it was medicine.

And part of his reason is he thought it was mislabeled. I kind of said that it was seen as a cold, dry substance, and so in the humoral system of medicine, it would be used for hot things. Well, he thought it was mislabeled and that it was a hot substance. And especially because we tended to drink it hot and we added all of these spices to it and sugar and whatnot. And so as a result, if you drank a lot of it, it

would ferment your blood and then your blood would spoil. And I don't know what that means, but it would be bad, probably, your blood spoiled. So he started accusing chocolate, sorry, the chocolate in position. There was a guy in Florence who who worked at a coffee shop uh Francesco Zetti who his name he was known as the Hunchback of Pannon. Why is that? Because that was the coffee shop he worked at and he was a Hunchback. I'm not super clever but which I don't know if those are the two people that the corners of the ring over here we've got the great chocolate accuser and over here we've got the hunchback of Pannon. I don't know.

I don't know who's going to win. But he was really worried that his business would drop off because in addition to coffee at their shop they sold chocolate drinks. And he was afraid, oh my gosh, if business drops off I'm going to get fired. He didn't own the shop either. This is just a guy who worked there was really worried about his job. And so he wink wink commissioned a report from a doctor that was anonymous about how great chocolate was and then published it a defensive chocolate. Sorry, there's old tobacco ads that tell you like this specific brand is good for your T zone. Yeah, that was pretty much that he was like,

no, no, look, I've got this report from a doctor locally. And he won't give his name, but I swear a doctor definitely wrote this about how great chocolate is. It's great. Basically, all the people who made chocolate jumped in defensive Zeti and joined his side. And obviously chocolate kind of won out. And that's how lobbying was invented. So what's next, Ed? Let's move closer into the future yet still past of chocolate. Well, Justin, I'd be happy to do that for you, but why don't you head on down to the

building department with me first. Let's go. The medicines, the medicines that I skilled at my car before the mound. Uh, seven the 18th century chocolate is at this point well established as a medicinal beverage. But now it's especially recommended that you melt it and add it to milk. Come on guys, like we're on to you. Like we know, I mean this is hot chocolate. It's hot chocolate. I mean that's a good chocolate.

That's great. That's great. It's great. It's funny, you can even find, it it suggested that if you couldn't afford chocolate because by now of course it had spread to that everybody was it was recommended hey for your health each chocolate but not everybody could afford to buy it. So you could make like a fake chocolate by toasting flour and then mix it with sugar and milk and egg yolks. Okay, that sounds good. I would actually try that, I think.

That's not chocolate. It's not chocolate. Do you remember that cooking show we were watching where somebody tried to make chocolate? Do you remember that lady? It was like the worst cooks or something and she tried and she got, oh, what's she got?

She cooks in America. She thought you could make chocolate by, I don't even remember what she put in there. Oh, yeah, I do remember that though. Yeah, she was trying to make chocolate, holy crap. With like peanut butter or. I what she put in there. Oh, yeah, I do remember that though. Yeah, she was trying to make chocolate holy crap. With like peanut butter or... I think she took...

Yeah, like... Kero syrup or something. I don't know. She didn't know that chocolate was like a, like, now there's cocoa. Yeah, there's something that... The thing called chocolate. The notes chocolate.

Right. Yeah, no chocolates like an actual substance. It's not flour, a toasted flour. No, it is not, it's not. In the 19th century, we start to see chocolate in different forms coming into play and then some famous chocolate names. For instance, John Cadbury was a quaker who... You know they're getting the stricter about important Cadbury chocolate in the US. I know.

It's getting to be a thing. Not Cadbury, as we know it, but British Cadbury chocolate, not like. It's better. Cadbury cream eggs and which are great. Which are great. Cadbury cream eggs are best.

The dairy milks are the best. The dairy milks are the O man. You guys know how to do chocolate. Sorry, everybody who loves Hershey's, but there it is. It's, yeah. There's no comparison. So John Cadbury was concerned about how much everybody was drinking booze, and he thought, you know,

it'd be better if everybody started drinking chocolate instead, because it's still tasty and it's good for you. So I'm going to start making chocolate and encouraging everybody to drink it and advertising it as good for you, which obviously turned out well for us all now. Chocolate was also at the time considered a healthier alternative to tea.

And so it was encouraged, especially since we had all kinds of kids. Healthier. Healthier than tea? Uh-huh. Chocolate was healthier than tea. So, you know, we've got all these four kids who were stuck in like factories and workhouses and they were all sickly because they didn't have a lot of food.

The thought was like, well, if we could give them each a little bit of chocolate every day, they'd all be healthy. I mean, they'd be happier, I think. They'd definitely be happier. It was linked heavily with energy, with vigor, being robust. That's like really old school. Just the fact that association went back thousands of years ago. Yeah.

Chocolate has always, and I don't know if it's because early on, the idea of mixing chocolate with sugar or cocoa with sugar and making chocolate was not not new people have been doing that for a very long time and sugar obviously makes you feel more energetic but I guess just the properties from cocoa alone people felt better afterwards makes me feel good yeah right there was one testimonial from that time period I read that there was a husband who was being treated by his doctor with chocolate. His doctor was, it was, had prescribed him drinking some chocolate every evening for some sort of respiratory condition that he had. And his wife decided, you know what, while he's drinking chocolate, I'm gonna, I mean, it's good. I'll drink some chocolate too. And it's good for you. So what can I hurt? And the story goes that she ended up getting pregnant even though she was supposed to be barren. Chocolate. So chocolate will get you

pregnant. Chocolate will get you pregnant. I think that's the hope on Valentine's Day, right? Yep. This is also the same. No, no, no, not that. I don't think you know what baby tonight I'm gonna get you Try try one of the cook and not caramel Gonna pregnant a year gonna be pregnant like this particular Bombon is pregnant with strawberry cream. I'm gonna tell Charlie that to scare if any boy gives you chocolate. He's trying to get you a pregnant run.

Even if it's the Easter Bunny. Especially if it's the Easter Bunny. Watch out for Santa. Watch out for Santa. He tries to trick you by giving you an orange. Nice try. This is all the same century in which Nestle invented powdered milk chocolate.

And this trend developed of milk chocolate at this point. And there, so it was kind of a double edged sword, because on one hand, it was not as healthy milk chocolate. But on the other hand, this was a powdered thing that everybody could get and keep on your shelf and so the use of chocolate became much more widespread as a result. We also see the chocolate bar making its debut. And these different forms of chocolate,

like different not just as a liquid, but like different solids, not only led to it being more widespread just as chocolate, but also being used in medicines in different ways. So like coating pills and tablets and stuff with chocolate became very popular. Like miracle max? Exactly like miracle max. That's what you got to do. Helps it go down better.

And the idea of health chocolate became a thing as well. So we start to see products because we're kind of moving into the patent medicine era and chocolate became a thing as well. So we start to see products, because we're kind of moving into the patent medicine era and chocolate later on that. We've talked about this before, like medicines that really contain things like alcohol or cocaine or something opium to give you an effect, but nothing that they, nothing like

what they advertise it would do. Similarly, chocolate was used this way. So you could see like doctor days, chocolate tonic laxative, which just tasted like chocolate. I don't know. Probably, you know, probably was a laxative. We were really good at making laxatives. That was one of the things we could do. If you needed to poop, we could fix that. We got you. There was also one I liked was housewalt vigor chocolate. That's good. You know, even the heath bar, which came out early into the 20th century, the Heath bar

was supposed to be healthy for you. Its original slogan was, Heath for better health. Nice try. Guys, it's literally, it's toffee and chocolate. There's not even like nuts to help you make your case. At least Snickers, they're like, you'll be full afterwards. Snickers' whole campaign is like, eat one of these, you don't want to eat anything else because ugh, what I do. I don't think that's how the ad goes.

It's, yeah, it's basically how the ad goes. This is also the center where Milton Hershey makes his debut. And, you know, we kind of, that changes the whole concept of chocolate on the US side. And ads for Hershey's at the time also push chocolate is kind of like a healthy substance. Similar to like, you know, we, when you see like the old Guinness ads, like Guinness is good for you, they're old Hershey's ads where it's like,

Hershey's for your health and that kind of thing. So as we move into the 20th century, we initially still have this view that chocolate is a health food. And it's even included in rations in World War II. Everybody gets a little bit of chocolate, like all the soldiers, because they need it. It is seen as not just like,

I'm not a treat for our fighting men and women, but our fighting men and the thai. Something you need to do is strengthen the fight with the gun. Exactly, they need the chocolate. But what really starts to move chocolate away from a medicine and into the food realm is the assertion that fat is bad for you, which we get later in the 1900s. Bruined everything. At this point, because if you were just talking about the pure cocoa beans, you're not talking about a lot of fat, but the way that we eat chocolate, there is a lot of fat.

We eat it with, it's got all the sugar and everything, the carbohydrates, and then on the butter and cream, make it whatever you're gonna make out of the chocolate. So chocolate started to be seen as an indulgence and something that wasn't really good for you. And by the 1950s, we see chocolate really just marketed at this point for being yummy and a treat

and something decadent and something that you would have like on a special occasion and not something that you would take certainly to make you healthy. Oh man. But. Oh, it's making me come back. Now let's go again.

That's not the end of the story. Nowadays, and I won't say this is Really recent. I think that people have been saying this probably for a good 10 20 years now There is some evidence that maybe chocolate is good for you Especially chocolate that's more chocolate more cocoa, you know dark chocolate And that's where that comes from the more chocolate that's in there and the less other stuff, the better it's thought to be for you. So we see some, there are some studies that suggest maybe it's heart healthy,

like it improves your HDL, your good cholesterol. There's a lot, people always talk about flavonoids. I always love to hear that. People will ask me like, well, I need to eat dark chocolate, right? And drink some red wine for the flavonoids. And it's like, well, I mean... I think I'll probably get your flavonoids in. Yeah, and, you know, I won't prescribe dark chocolate.

I don't think we're back at that point where we start to see chocolate is something that you can actually prescribe people. Right. Um, but it definitely is, is seen as healthier for you than it was before. It's also maybe an antioxidant. But it's one of those darker, the better, right? That's, yes, that's generally true with chocolate. definitely is seen as healthier for you than it was before. It's also maybe an antioxidant. But it's one of the darker the better, right? That's, yes, that's generally true with chocolate.

Again, just because you're getting more chocolate, like the actual cocoa, I mean, because you know, you can't eat a hundred percent chocolate chocolate. Maybe you can't. Well, I mean, it's very bitter. Oh. Chocolate has a bitter flavor,

right? Like pure chocolate, it's bitter. And so we we throw the sugar in there so that it tastes good. I used to not be able to eat like even Hershey's special dark couldn't do it. Oh man, you're crazy. I know, but now I love dark chocolate. And let's be honest, chocolate is just really good. So I think that it's, I think it's funny. It's probably our nature to try to find a justification for eating chocolate. I don't think there is. Just eat it in moderation. It's like anything else. Yeah. You know, maybe, maybe dark chocolate is, is a little bit good for you, but eating, you know, that entire platter of chocolate covered nutter butters and Oreos that I have downstairs probably isn't. So, you know. So just know what you're doing when you absolutely do eat the entire platter of chunk covered, butter, and ground crackers, like we have.

Thanks to taxpayers for letting us use their song Medicines as our intro and outro of the program. Thanks to you for listening. Thanks to the Maximum Fun Network for having us on. There's a lot of great shows on there for you. Listen to Maximum Fun.org, Lady to Lady, the Goose Down, One Bad Mother is great about being a mom. My brother, my brother in me. Thank you, dear. Judge John Hodgkin, George has to go so many more. So go check those totally out. We love being on MaximumFund.org, and there's a lot of great shows there. So don't miss them. Anyway, thanks for listening. We'll be back next Tuesday with another episode of Solvins.

Until then, I'm just Mac Roy. That's Sydney Mac Roy. And there's always don't drill a hole in your head. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture Artistone Listener Supported