Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones Classics: Fluoride

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

With all the news around fluoride, we bring the classic Sawbones episode about the benefits of fluoride in drinking water, because the science has not changed.This week, Dr. Sydnee and Justin explore a medical mystery: Why, for a town in Colorado, was having brown teeth a sign of great tooth health?Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers https://taxpayers.bandcamp.com/Center for Reproductive Rights: https://reproductiverights.org/

Hello everybody and welcome to Sawbones, I'm your host, Justin McElroy. And I'm Sydney McElroy. And it's just kind of a, I have to do that for superstition, but this is not the actual episode yet. No, well, will you do it again? Will they hear that again?

I don't know. Who knows? What are we doing? Well, Justin, there's been a lot of news lately about health and human services and the secretary thereof. And one of the things that was making headlines is fluoride. We know RFK Jr. is not a big fan of putting fluoride in public drinking water.

He has a lot of concerns that it's a neurotoxin. And shall I just preface with, many of these concerns have been found to not be based in any sort of evidence as long as Fluoride is kept to appropriate levels meeting EPA standards in our drinking water however He has recently said publicly that he is going to direct the CDC to stop recommending it That's not the same as banning it

but he is going to direct them to stop recommending it. And he could work with the EPA to change the levels that are allowed in drinking water to in effect ban it. If that makes sense. Already one state Utah has banned fluoride in public drinking water and RFK Jr. has applauded that and feels like they have set the precedent that should be followed by the rest of the nation. So I feel like it's an important time to remind everybody how great fluoride is. Fluoridating our water is one of the

greatest public health achievements of the century. And also share with you once again our most controversial episode of Sawbones ever. Yes. This is the episode that has generated more emails than any other episode we've ever done. And so we've taken a lot of time to think about those emails. We've read all of them. And Sydney, did you want to update anything that people are gonna hear in the episode? Nope.

Fluoride in public drinking water is a good idea and we should continue to do it and There's a hot you can listen to the whole episode because it's still the same. There's no new science on this All right, we'll see we'll see you next week Sawbones is a show about medical history and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. from that weird growth. You're worth it.

Alright, this one is about some books. One, two, one, of Miss Guided Medicine. I'm your co-hosturl McElroy. That's some cold stuff Columbus. Dag. You know why? I was wearing my official badge. Yeah, her official staff badge.

I wanted to make sure that people knew I belonged. No one harangued you? That I wasn't just wandering around back there eating peanut butter and drinking beer with no reason. Yeah, I'm hearing a lot of people just saying random things and I completely agree with all of you. I love Cosi. It's a magical wonderland that I got to go to very rarely when I was a child in Huntington, West Virginia. They would take us here to Columbus to see Kosai.

And it was beautiful and amazing. And I love Kosai. Children. We're here and I feel like we have to go to Kosai tomorrow because I mean we're here. Children. I mean we're here. They would bring us to Coastside and they would say children this building is where the first Wendy's was. Can you even imagine? Click click click. That's where it was right there.

Here's a unicycle that you ride on a wire. Amazing. So we love Columbus. We come to Columbus a lot for to go to Cosi. But also growing up in Huntington for like concerts. Yeah. Stuff like this was a cool place. Your cool stuff was happening was Columbus. But Cosi, Columbus is so much more than Cosi, which so many people forget from Huntington.

Did you know, for example, that Columbus was the destination of the very first ever cargo flight? It's true. It's true. They were transporting silk. If you're saying you knew that, you're lying. Yeah, you know, I think they probably knew. They were transporting silk. If you're saying you knew that, you're lying. Yeah, you know, I think they probably knew. They're transporting silk, which like,

if you imagine planes back then, that makes a lot of sense. Like, hey, I want to do the first cargo flight. What do you want to bring? Something light. Planes are bad. None of us trust them. Silk, perfect. What other facts do you know about Columbus? Columbus is the home of America's first water filtration system. Columbus. That's

important. Yeah. Clean water. Clean water, so cool. Yeah, no bacteria, no parasites. That's great. Yeah. Do you like clean water? Yeah, I do actually I Don't really thought about squid, but you're right. I do like my water clean You know, it doesn't clean water, but it's also something we add to water that makes water better. So Well, yes, oh wait no, I know this. That's not what I'm talking about. I know this. Crystal light. Or propel.

Is propel the thing now? You might know it by the name H2 flow. Right. Fluoride. Fluoride. That's right. Fluoride is something else we add to water. Do you like that segue? Fluoride is something else we add to water that's really important.

Uh, what's fluoride? Here's what I know about fluoride. I used to put, did you all do this, have the foam thing that they would put the goop in at the dentist and you would bite it for like 20 minutes? Mm-hmm. Who did that? I'm so relieved to hear that you all did that too.

Because if not, like I need to talk to my dentist, emergently. We need, there needs to be a cold case investigation reopened. And then Dr. Judith Woodruff and her practice We need there needs to be a cold case investigation reopen Dr. Judith Woodruff and her practice of just like pumping juicy foam into kids' mouths But who did who did the school-based fluoride programs where you had to like

Take it though They would bring like the tray of like here are your shots fluoride children. And you would like do your little shot and swish it around. And I always felt like this is a great, this is a special day. This sucks, but it's a special day because it's different, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. You never did that?

It's very one flow of the cookie sense. So fluoride is a naturally occurring mineral. It's in rocks, but it can get into air and soil and water which is why it's important and the the reason we talk about it is that when You have acid from bacteria So you got you got sugar in your mouth because you eat it. We all eat sugar, right?

We're all eating sugar. Even if you don't know you're eating sugar, you're eating sugar. There's sugars, sugars everywhere. You're eating sugars even in your beans. Only on set. Even in your beans there are sugars. There's some, there's some bean sugar I'll admit, but it's very slow, it's a slow carb. So bacteria eat the sugar and we get acids in our mouth and those acids eat away at the enamel on our teeth and fluoride helps to build that back up. So that's where fluoride comes into play in dental health. Now we didn't know that for a really long time. How long? Until the early 1900s, which is like really recent for our especially for our podcast we were usually talking about like ancient Greeks and Romans and right now we're

talking about early 1900s is when we figured this out but the first time we connected fluoride to teeth was actually in a really unhealthy way the first connection between fluoride and teeth was a very bad one. Go on. So, it's 1901. It's not. No, well. Nice try. Try to gaslight me. Drink some more.

It's 1901. Do do do do, do do do do, do do do. drink some more. It's 1901. And a dental student named Frederick McKay has, he's finished dental school and he's decided he's going to head west, young man, he's going to go out there and seek his fortune and his future in dentistry and he's going to Colorado Springs to start his first dental practice. And he gets there and he thinks, I made a great choice because everybody here seems to have brown teeth. And that seems like a great place to start a dental practice. Yeah, for sure.

Because there are a lot of jacked up grills in Colorado Springs at this point in history. I mean, lots of brown teeth, brown teeth. Okay. Okay. You got that? Yeah, brown teeth, I'm with you. Yeah, so many people have brown stains on their teeth so much that some people look like their entire teeth

were coated in chocolate, as he writes. Ugh, sis. Especially kids, especially the children in the town of Colorado Springs in 1901, look like their teeth are coated in chocolate 24-7, all the time. Eww. So if you're a dentist, you're like, Jackpot.

I picked the right place. Maybe, except like, I wouldn't say your values necessarily align with this populace like The first guy that gets his teeth clean in the town where everyone's house our brain Everybody's teeth are brown is like Why you really ruined it for a bit? I guess Todd. I Guess we all got to get our teeth clean now. Thanks Todd real cool, man. Thanks But here's the thing. He started seeing these people and it didn't just come off with a brush and

He started reading in his dental books. Now. I have none of these and I don't know anything about teeth There's my I read about this but I'm a doctor. We don't know about teeth I've said this before on the podcast, but it's the God's honest truth in in medical school I feel like it's a monopoly that dentists have where they're like, don't teach doctors about teeth. We don't want to mess it in teeth. That's our area. So I mean, he had dental books, I don't. He read them, I haven't.

He still didn't find anything about brown teeth. So he still didn't know why, even though I scrub and scrub and scrub and brush and brush and brush, all of these people in Colorado Springs have brown teeth. So he still couldn't figure it out. Even some of the local livestock like cows and sheep and horses had brown teeth. They called it copper teeth in the livestock. It had nothing to do with copper. I don't know why old timey people name things old timey things. But there you go. It had nothing to do with copper, but even some of the livestock had brown teeth. And if you ask the locals, like,

Hey, you, why do you think everybody has brown teeth? They would say things like, well, magic. It's 1901 probably like as somebody somebody like ran over somebody every thought was a witch with their carry or something. No, they would say things like some of the common thoughts were you know it's the water there's a lot of calcium in it. We eat a lot of pork out here. It's probably the milk, because it's kind of low quality, et cetera, et cetera.

That's it. And nobody had any good idea about it. And there had been reports other places at this point in history. So there were places in Durango, Mexico, where people were getting brown teeth, and they said, well, it's probably something in the water. In Naples, Italy, so that far away, the locals said, well, we have brown teeth and they said well it's probably something in the water in Naples Italy so that far away the locals said well we have brown teeth but it's

probably just all the volcanic ash and dust they probably make it look good too you know they do you know they do you know they look so cool but they're brown teeth and and they're like it's just okay I got the little scooter like they can sell those scooters. Like I think it, like they can make a Vespa look cool. Like I think they can sell brown teeth. And we're like, what's wrong with your teeth? And they're like, stupid Americans.

Americans. Nothing is wrong with them. That's a French guy, but like. Yeah, that's not. There's no way for me to do Italian it's like Mario whenever you go into your stupid American accent it's a French one yeah that's that's okay so he read these reports and he thought dr. McCain he thought well this really makes any sense it still doesn't explain why all my patients have brown teeth. So he decided this was a whole new clinical entity that had never been

discovered before. And he named it, of course, the very clever Colorado Brownstain. Hey everybody, my name is Colorado Brownstain and we're going to play some saxophone music for you tonight. Everybody get real comfortable, here's my first song. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe. Colorado Brownstain. I'm gonna lay it down real for you, real smooth. Here we go. Wop wop wop wop wop wop. The other name that he tried for it later was Rocky Mountain Model Teeth. But it never caught on the way that Colorado Brownstain persisted, as you can imagine and he he tried to get national attention for this

But everybody was like listen if there was a if there was a disease of like if everybody's teeth were turning brown We'd know about it all over the u.s. So this is this is not something that's real It's like in a few people and so he said well You know why I'm gonna do a study with local dentists to try to prove that this is a problem around here So he started this kind of just like survey with local dentists Like what is the scope of this illness and at the end of it? He found that 90% of the kids born in Colorado Springs had brown teeth Okay, like that's a lot of kids. Yeah had brown teeth. Okay. Like that's a lot of kids with brown teeth.

And so he published these results like, listen, maybe not all the adults have brown teeth, but we've been studying and now all these kids who are born in Colorado Springs are growing up, they get rid of their baby teeth, they grow their permanent teeth and they're brown. And it's 90% of them and what's going on. And he used the statistic to lure a luminary

of the dentistry world to Colorado Springs. Of course, you know I'm talking about green, Vardaman, black, GV Black. Obviously, everybody's heard. Sorry, one more time? Of GV Black. What's the name? Green Vardaman Black. black okay that's good that is

a bad guy for those series of unfortunate events books right he was at you're not a dentist if you were guilty if you were you would know this name because he is just he is a giant in the dentistry world. He invented one of the first drills. I mean he was he was really one of the fathers of modern dentistry. This guy devoted his entire life and career to dentistry. So to for Dr. McKay to get Dr. Black, Dr. G.V. Black to come out to Colorado Springs and look at these kids with brown teeth was a huge deal. But trust me. I'm going to take your word for it. Trust me.

I'm not a dentist, but I know that this was a big deal because he was a big deal dentist and researcher. So he comes out and initially, he had invited him before. This wasn't the first invitation, but he was like, I'm not coming to Colorado Springs. I'm kind of a big deal. I don't know if you've heard of me. I'm GV Black. Someday Sydney's going to say I'm a big deal and Justin's going to be like whatever, but it's true. But finally he came out because he was like 90% of kids have brown teeth.

Well, okay. I could do something with this. So he came out and they started studying the problem together and they had a lot of trouble trying to figure out why. I mean they figured that this was a problem. A lot of people in Colorado Springs have brown teeth, mostly children, and they had zero clue as to why. And they studied that until Black's death in 1915, which didn't give them an answer but they did come up with a couple

really important observations during this time period. So, number one, the first was that it mainly seemed to happen to young children, people who were born there who had not yet developed their permanent teeth. So, if you were, if you moved to the area, you were much less likely to develop it, but if you grew up in Colorado Springs, it seemed to be something so inborn or something like that, something with your developmental process. The second thing they noticed is that whatever made these teeth brown also seemed to make them resistant to decay. OK, so they looked bad armor. Right. So he looked bad. It was like armor. Right. So they looked bad, but they were actually great. They were actually super healthy teeth. And they kept noticing that

like these kids would have teeth that were really jacked up, but then they would they would, you know, examine them and go, I got no cavities. Amazing. So whatever is making their teeth so brown seems to be making them healthier. It's quite a deal with the devil though if you think about it. No cavities, but there's this one thing. It looks like you just Willy Wonka'd it out all over your teeth all the time. Yeah, you got Augustus Gloop teeth. It's called the Augustus Gloop Disorder.

All over your teeth all the time. So McKay had some theories as to what could be causing it, but nothing concrete. In 1923, there was a case in Oakley, Idaho that really helped him break through. So the town contacted him because they knew the studies he had already done in Colorado Springs and they said, listen, we have kids that have started developing these same brown stains that the kids in Colorado Springs had and we don't know why. And so he went there to Oakley, Idaho and he started studying. You know, he was like, you mean Colorado brown stain?

I'm actually not going to say that out loud, but yes, but I'm not going to just say it once. I'm actually not going to say that out loud, but yes, I'm not going to just say it once. I'm actually not going to say it. So he went to Idaho and he studied the kids and he couldn't he couldn't find anything. But then they said, you know, when this all started is when we built a new communal water pipe. We, we, you know, we needed clean water into the community and so we built this big pipe system from one of the local hot springs and it pumped water into the community and ever since we did that, the kids born into the community have developed these stains.

And he said, well, listen, I tested your water with the means he had at hand. He couldn't find anything wrong with the water, but he went, you know what, you should probably stop using this water. I don't know what it is, but this is the source. And they said, okay, fine. So they stopped using this pipe. They went back to old methods of water. Over time, no more kids are born with Colorado brown stain. So this is the first clue where whatever the whatever the problem is it's in the water So now we know this he had suspected it But now he knows for sure it's in the water and at the same time as you see with like these kinds of

Research studies like this research is being done in the u.s. Everybody's really excited about it Everybody's really interested and at the same time you could echo like studies are being done in the UK, studies are being done in Italy that kind of show the same results. Like there's something in the water, we don't know what it is. And we finally figured it out when it happened again in a place called Bauxite, Arkansas. That's a whole lot of name. Bauxite. Bauxite. Boxite. Boxite, Arkansas is a town that was essentially owned by the aluminum company of America.

Oh my God, I thought you were going to say Illuminati. I was so excited. Dang it. No, I'm sorry. I just had one second. I was like, oh, is she going to, are we going to go, oh, aluminum, fine. Not that exciting. And there's one person who's in the Illuminati

in the crowd tonight who's about to be like, that's my boys! You, I'm on you by the way. I saw you with a fist raise. I got your number. The Illuminati do play a role in this story but not yet. Are you kidding me? Go faster! These people gotta get home and I gotta hear about the Illuminati! So, Boxside, Arkansas, it's this tiny little town. It's mainly owned by this aluminum company.

That's where they produce and whatever process aluminum in their giant factories. And they had recently been under a lot of scrutiny for suspected problems in the water and the soil from aluminum. There have been a lot of questions in the media recently from what does having this giant aluminum factory do to the health of the townsfolk? So now in this same town where we have all these concerns about aluminum, all of a sudden we have these brown stains

on kids' teeth. So as you can imagine imagine there was a lot of attention, a lot of doctors and public health service officers and media attention focused on this town. Is it the aluminum? That was the big question. So first of all Dr. McKay shows up, a public health service officer named Grover Kempf go and they investigate. They analyze the water and using their tools, again, they can't find a source. But they're not using the best ways of analyzing water at the time. They're looking for very obvious bacterial infections or toxins, but

they don't have all the ways that we do now of analyzing water. Well, guess who does? The aluminum company of America. They have these resources. You got me again. I thought for sure that time. No, not the Illuminati. You know who does have water testing that would put all that to shame. So they do this purely to cover their butts. They say, I don't know what's going on, but I sure hope it's not aluminum. We got to test this water and figure out if it's our fault

so that we can do some damage control. And they start testing the water. And what they find with their more sophisticated equipment is that the water in bauxite has incredibly high levels of fluoride. Mm-hmm, there he is. Not aluminum. Only took us 25 minutes.

We got that culprit. At the time, they thought, well, this doesn't make any sense. Fluoride means nothing. This can't have anything to do with it. At the time they thought well this doesn't make any sense fluoride means nothing this can't have anything to do with it so they get new samples they reanalyze it and again these are chemists yes they work for the aluminum company but they're chemists they're scientists you know I'm a scientist like we're nerdy we just want to know the truth we just want to figure it out and

like they're like well this is fascinating fluoride and water what could this mean and so they do it again And they're like, well, this is fascinating. This is fluoride in the water. What could this mean? And so they do it again. And they're like, more fluoride. This is fascinating. And so. You can't see it if you listen to this podcast later. But Sydney is hilariously tweaking her glasses.

That's just adorable. This is what scientists do when they're excited. They're straining their glasses. So they find all this fluoride. And the chief chemist at the Aluminum Company of America writes a letter to Dr. McKay and says, listen I don't know what this means, I don't know why it would have any effect, but here's the deal. You're worried about these brown teeth, we analyze the water, this is

what we found and if you want to get water samples from the other communities that have brown teeth, we will analyze it in our lab and look for the same thing we found here. And he says, yes, I want to do that. They send samples from Colorado Springs, they send samples from Oakley, Idaho, there are other communities where we've had this brown teeth. They send all these samples to the lab and they find high levels of fluoride. So there you go. Fluoride is named as the cause of all these brown teeth. Now this could be the end of the story because now we know... This is raising some obvious questions for me, but go on.

So this takes us all the way to 1930. We're in 1930 now, and the National Institute of Health has gotten wind of all these results, and they're fascinated by this, and they go, oh my gosh, well, fluoride in water can do these things to tooth enamel, cause mottled tooth enamel that can absorb brown stains more easily, and this is very interesting. But you know what also was really interesting is that it also seemed like all these people with the brown teeth didn't get tooth decay at the rate of all of our other citizens. It was a huge problem at the time, people with tooth decay. Everybody's teeth were rotting out of their heads. And so they said, you

know what, this is really interesting because I don't know, this fluoride in the water, while it turned their teeth brown, they also seemed to be really healthy brown teeth so let's start doing some studies to see how much fluoride in water will turn your teeth brown so the National Institute of Health did a lot of studies and they found that at one part per million your teeth are good they're not gonna turn brown for the most part over that you might get brown teeth under that you're gonna be safe so then they start saying you know what so if we know that we can put up to one part per million fluoride in water and your teeth won't turn brown for the most part what

will it do positively for teeth so dr. H trendly Dean who was working at the National Institute of Health said you know, let's start studying what this might do for tooth decay. So he started putting all these different amounts of fluoride and water to see like, could this maybe positively impact tooth decay? And this wasn't like a brand new idea. Like since the 1800s, there had been theories that like fluoride pills have something to do with bones. We don't know what teeth are but they seem like bones

Maybe maybe that might help them in some way So, you know, maybe if we put fluoride in water this might help people's teeth so they they did a hard sell in a lot of different communities and they finally got the community of Grand Rapids, Michigan to agree to be guinea pigs and put fluoride in their water for the first time in 1945. So that was the first time that fluoride was added to the water of an entire city. 1945, Grand Rapids, Michigan. God, if that had been Columbus, that would have been a great payoff.

Dang. Okay, we'll go on. No, sorry. I know it was Michigan, too. I'm sorry. Congrats, Grand Rap go on. No, sorry. I know it was Michigan too. Congrats, Kern Rapids. You did it again. I know. I'm really sorry about that. Everybody here hates Michigan. I know. I told you that. I know. You seem to forget I was reminding you. Okay. They were guinea pigs though. Ah, ha ha ha. Take that, Michigan. It could have gone horribly wrong But it didn't over over 15 years

You guys are laughing at that you sickin' me Just it's just football guys calm down, okay Yikes, we're talking about human life in the balance It's really disturbing go on. I mean human teeth. Well human teeth, but it could have killed them Okay? Yikes. We're talking about human life in the balance. It's really disturbing, go on. I mean, human teeth. Well, human teeth, but it could have killed them. Maybe.

You didn't know? I mean, well. They look around and a bunch of people with baked bean teeth and they're like, well, I don't know. Put some dirt on it, fluoride, I don't know. Guessing. from dirt, fluoride, I don't know, guessing. So over 15 years, they studied the population of Grand Rapids and they found that the 30,000

school children that they followed had a rate of tooth decay 60% less than the previous generation. This is still with the one part per million. One part per million of fluoride. This is a huge drop. So 60% drop in the rate of tooth decay. And this is meaningful. I mean, I know like it sucks to have cavities.

It sucks to lose teeth. But it also sucks to have cavities that you can't have the tooth pulled because you can't afford to have the tooth pulled or that get infected and you get horrible infections from these dental infections. So there are more serious consequences to, you know, bad teeth. So it's not so big a deal as like, well, whatever, like we improve kids smiles. That's great. Whatever. So really Michigan smiling. No, I whatever, like we improve kids' smiles. My mouth's gray, whatever, so everybody in Michigan smiling. No, I mean, like this was a huge deal in terms of preventive health. Like we did this one thing and now we have a 60% decrease in dental decay.

And so the result of that is every community in America went wild. And now we have. Bananas for this good stuff. Well, everybody wanted good tea. Everybody wanted their tea to stop falling out. So now 200 million Americans have fluoride in their drinking water. You probably have fluoride in your drink.

Why is it not all? Why is it not all? Shouldn't everybody have that? It seems good. It just has to be adopted, community by community. Okay. But no, but no. We've got it though, right? Why is it not all? Shouldn't everybody have that? It seems good. It just has to be adopted. Community by community. Okay.

Yeah. But no. We've got it though, right? We're cool. Yeah, we got it. You guys got it. Most major cities have it. I always ask the question when I'm seeing patients like, do you have city water or well

water? Because city water generally has fluoride. Well water doesn't always. But you can add it to well water. I mean, like, you can have people come out and add it. But 13 million school kids still have school based programs where you get the fluoride rinses, which I still remember from school.

Like the fun day where it was like something new, but it's fluoride, this sucks, why is this a thing? And in addition, the big shift other than water and these school programs is that like toothpaste, right? Yeah. Like fluorides and toothpaste. Yeah. So that was the biggest deal is that we said you know what if Lauren's so great, why don't we put it in the thing that we put directly on our teeth? Let's rub it on our teeth. Yeah for sure. That seems like it would make sense. There are other countries who have opted to add it to other things.

Like, for instance, there are some countries where they're like, most of our water is used for like washing stuff and toilets. And so we don't want to put it in the water because that seems like a waste. So they added to the salt so you can get fluoridated salt in some countries. That's really effective when they add it to all salt, when they just add it to some, it's not as effective. And you can also find places where it's added to milk. It's advised by the World Health Organization, water first, salt second, if you can't add

it to water. And it costs you on average to add fluoride to your water about a dollar per year. In some communities it's a little more and some it's a little less but on average it costs us all about a dollar a year to decrease the rate of dental decay by about 60%. Good job science. I'm so proud of you. That's a pretty good. And the end of this story is everybody thought was great forever. And they thought this is awesome. And we love our teeth and it's very cheap. Science is great.

Hooray for us! No. Let's all ride off into the sunset and enjoy our great teeth. It would be great if that were the end of the story because it was... It was considered one of the 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century, adding fluoride to water. And if that were the end of it that would be great, but the truth is there's huge controversy and if any of you have scanned the internet about fluoride you already know this. Fluoride is named as one of the great big conspiracy theories probably of our time. Now in some places they haven't added fluoride

to their water, not because of these conspiracy theories, but because they've already added it to toothpaste or salt or whatever and their rate of decay is so low that now that they're considering it they just don't decide it. So there are some major developed nations that haven't added fluoride to their water because they've already kind of stemmed this problem. So they don't really need it at this point at this point in time. There are places who have voted like we don't want to add fluoride to our water because we're independent thinkers. And we love when our teeth rot out of our head and we'll go to our dentist and whatever. We're independent thinkers that hate hard candy. And then the bigger thing is that there's a safety fear. There are a lot of people who say,

well, what is all this fluoride doing to us? Well, there have been exhaustive studies by the NIH and by the CDC and the FDA to try to figure out is there any negative impact on putting fluoride in our water? And over and over again they say no, no. There is fluorosis which is the condition we talked about at the beginning of the show which is when your teeth turn brown. This is from excess fluoride in your water. Now at one part per million there is a very small fraction of the population that could get some very mild degree of fluorosis. It is a cosmetic problem solely. It doesn't cause pain. It doesn't cause decay. It doesn't cause any problems with your functioning of your teeth. They still chew on pizza rolls just fine. So it doesn't do anything other

than they can get some streaks on them. And even that is incredibly rare. For most of us, fluoride in our water protects us from dental decay, period. Now that hasn't stopped people from accusing fluoride in our water of all kinds of crazy things. If you go on the internet, you will find that fluoride is the cause of cancer, bone disease, Alzheimer's, kidney disease, effects on enzymes, metabolism, thyroid issues, early puberty, increased allergies, hypersensitivity, fertility issues,

genetic disorders, neuro disorders, Down syndrome, lead poisoning, coronary artery disease, AIDS, arthritis, ADHD, SIDS, IBS, emphysema, fatigue, flatulence, and, wait for it, tooth decay. None of these things have ever been found to be true. In fact, you can find the American Dental Association has a 71-page document, PDF file on the internet, you can download for free to read how they refute every single one of these claims one by one with evidence, with studies, with research to tell you

why, no, I'm sorry, fluoride is not the reason you're farting so much. It's hard for me to pick, but I think my favorite is lead poisoning. Like absolutely not. For sure. Like by definition, not that. In addition, people have said that this is- Hey, hey, hey. It's fine. It's me, fluorite.

It's my friend, I- It's my friend, I... It's my friend, lead. He's with me. Come on in, lead. It's fine. Lead as much as he wants. It's fine. You don't need to process him, kidney.

Liver? Liver. Right, liver? What? What processes? Toxins? Both. What's up, slim good body?

I guess I know all the parts in the body now. Student has become the master. Also blood is in there for sure. In addition, you will find whole books written about how fluoride is either a Nazi plot to take over the US or a communist plot to take over the US or maybe a New World Order plot or perhaps an Illuminati plot. There they are.

Based on the idea that fluoride in our water makes us quote, stupid and docile and that fluoridation caused slight damage to specific parts of the brain making it more difficult for the person affected to defend his freedom and causing the individual to become more docile towards authority. There are books written on this about fluoride. I mean I know something's going on, right? Like, I know it's probably not fluoride. Something's going on, though.

It might be fluoride. Something. I think they've got a point about something's going on for sure. It just may not be fluoride is what I'm saying, maybe. Listen, I'm not saying everything's okay in the US right now That's not what I'm saying. Something's going on for sure It may be fluoride. I don't remember before fluoride, but I've met a lot of people since fluoride I'm not saying everything's okay. I'm just saying. Our teeth are dope though. For sure.

That you cannot take away. Yeah, exactly. Our teeth are fresh. Whatever is going on in the United States right now, it ain't fluoride, okay? Yeah. That's not the problem. It's keeping your teeth from decay. It's probably not turning them brown for the most part.

There are a few people who are gonna get fluorosis and I'm sorry in advance, but your teeth are gonna be so healthy. Yeah, they're super hard like steel. Brown, and with teeth, brown is the new white, it's okay. So, it's totally cool. So, and it's all thanks to Columbus, if you think about it,

because the first, think about it. Nobody even thought of filtering water before you guys. That's amazing. Definitely not Michigan. Before we leave, I want to say a huge thank you to William and everybody from the Columbus Podcast Festival for getting us out here. Thank you guys. and everybody from the Columbus Podcast Festival for getting us out here. Thank you guys.

I want to thank Dave Thomas for opening the first Wendy's. I want to thank Columbus for having us in the city. For having us. You told me that in 2013 they were named the most intelligent city. Yeah, did y'all know that? OH, right? Yes!

There it is. You guys are like, that's my intelligent folks. You're like, what? I've been drinking a lot, that sounds great. For sure you know how to spell Ohio. Do not even trip. Oh, I know, oh, what's he saying?

What's that chubby guy saying, OH? I know that. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. That's a little, that's a little intoxicating. Anyway.

Um. Um. Uh. Thank you. Thank, no, you can't do it, only I can. Uh. Uh. Stay in your lane.

Uh. Uh. You live here all the time. Uh, I want to thank the taxpayers for the use of their song, Medicines, as the intro and outro of our program. And thank you to the Maximum Fund Network for having us as part of their family.

They have a lot of great other podcasts like Judge John Hodgman, My Brother, My Brother, Me, The Adventure Zone, and many others. So, uh, thank you to Still Buffering, Court Appointed for doing such great shows. And folks, that's going to do it for us. My name is Justin Tyler McElroy. I'm Sidney Smurl Macaroy. Whatever. Whatever.

And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit.

I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. Whatever. Whatever. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. I quit! Alright! Maximum Fun, a workaround network of artist-owned shows, supported directly by you.