Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Color Therapy

Episode Date: October 1, 2014

Welcome to Sawbones, where Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband Justin McElroy take you on a whimsical tour of the dumb ways in which we've tried to fix people. This week: We repaint your house. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We pushed on through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

The medicines, the medicines, the escalant macaque for the mouth. Wow! Hello everybody and welcome to Saw Bowens meadow tour of misguided medicine. I am your co-host just come back Roy, and I'm Sydney Mac, right? Okay said so I got the I was looking at new lamps today We're all this sounds thrilling. I know this is a thrilling intro. I was looking at new lamps today because we're trying to Like get the house back in to some sort of shape. We kind of took nine months off, like done, peeing anything. Right.

And so we thought right now would be the best time to do some major overhauling. Maybe it's not doing that much overhaul in the house. So the one thing- I was being sarcastic. No, it's a lot of work. Anyway, the one thing I really want to do is get rid of that green. Yeah, there's a pretty atrocious color in our house. Oh my God, there is, it is almost like a unifying theme

of the worst possible shade of gray. If you put like, I'm trying to think of it. How would you describe it? It's kind of a light pea green. If you if you had double mitt gum and you put it through the the washing machine, you left it in your shorts, you put it through washing machine. When you got it out, that is the color of green that you would have. This sounds like something you've done. It is wholly unappealing. This color of green green and it's and pea soup, but like

Like not even appetizing and you may be wondering. Well, what room is it in just paint the room? Here's the problem first off all rooms. It's everywhere. It's every any Nuker crayon. It's like they won a bunch in a contest and Whoever had the one a bunch in a contest, then every looking cranny They could they could put it in I'm sure they liked it. It's just not our back. It's on chair rails and baseboards It's on the stairs It's like not the top not the part your foot touches, but like the you know I think the color of the screen is so unpleasant to me. I'm sure they, the people who, it's a bunch of doors painted it on,

enjoyed it. It's everywhere. And it's that old, like it's so old, you know it's probably got lead in it too. It's probably, it's probably lead. Probably it's giving my baby lead. It's probably something that, well, I mean, we just got to make sure she doesn't eat it.

Just stop eating the paint, baby. It's terrible. The good news is the color is so unappetizing that even the baby won't eat the paint. But I think this color, I hate the color green that this paint is so much, I think it's actually hurting me. Well, you wouldn't be the first one to think that color could have that kind of effect on you.

Do tell. So, let me tell you about chromotherapy, Justin. Tell me about chromotherapy, Justin. Tell me about chromotherapy, Sydney. And first of all, I want to thank Katie for recommending this topic. I thought it was interesting. She pointed out in her email that she didn't know if this topic would be off limits because it's still something that some people believe in, which is sometimes a topic that we would stray away from.

But this is why I think that it's okay. As I started to research it, it was called a pseudoscience multiple times in multiple places without me even doing much searching. So I think once it is uniformly recognized as a pseudoscience. This is the thing about a pseudoc… The fair. The funny implication about that word, pse-science, is that by definition,

if someone calls it a pseudo-science, that means there's someone saying, ah, no, no, no, this is real, this is legit. Because otherwise, it would be like, like nobody calls Spider-Man, pseudo-science. You know, like nobody calls it, well, the jury's still out on radioactive spiders, most are unconvinced at this pseudo-science

of radioactive arachnids. If there's a pseudo-science, there's one guy who's like, I don't know, I owe there something to it. Get some rays into the bugs. There's somebody out there who is just begging spiders to bite him left, right? He's just chasing them around on walls. Listen here, come here, right here.

And he's like, listen, it worked for one guy. It's got no, it didn't. no it didn't Dog that was a comic book That's so I think that that's one criteria the other criteria that I thought made it fair game for an episode Is that I saw it mentioned as a possible cure for cancer. Uh-oh You done goofed and when I see that I I kind of feel like all bets are off. If you're claiming that something that definitely doesn't call, doesn't cure cancer, cures cancer, then... So you've got to bring the hammer down.

Yeah. The hammer macaroni has got to bring the hammer down. So chroma therapy, you may be able to piece together what this is, Justin, from the word Chromo. Color therapy? Yeah, you can't get away talking about color. I don't know. I thought you wanted to impress us with your, with my basic understand of context clues. How far have I fallen? Do you want me to answer that? Moving on. It's fallen. Do you want me to answer that?

Moving on. So color therapy is based on the idea that we can use a light in the form of color, so you know, various colors of light specifically, to balance energy in someone. Now, what's the basic idea behind this? So the idea is that we are made of matter. I'm with you so far. Matter has many properties. Okay, yes. One of which is a vibrational energy.

I feel it slipping. And everything in our bodies vibrates at a different energy. That's true, that, well, that is true. The guy at the health food store told me that the the aroma therapy I got vibrated at my energy because he has a pendulum. He checked my hand, he checked my energy, and he said we're a good match. Okay, I've lost all credibility now. You did or I did? Well, I'm associated with you. I didn't have much to lose to begin with though,

let's be honest. Our DNA is mingled in this tiny human in my arms though. So, okay, so everything's vibrating at a different energy. We're all buzzing. And that means that all those vibrations, those good vibrations, if you like, correspond to different wavelengths of color, like light wavelengths. So we can affect things in our body with different colors.

Just find the right vibration of color, right? That grooves with that part of our bod. So we will respond to color and we can also use color as like a diagnostic tool. Okay. Which isn't totally wrong. I mean, I definitely, if somebody walks in and they're yellow, I say, oh, you're jaundiced. So I mean, I guess that is like a diagnostic tool. I don't think that's what they're talking about. And that color, and that we're also made of color.

That's the other thing. Oh, yeah, man. One color. Different parts of our body or made of different colors. And I could go into there's a whole like tangent you go on with chakras here. I'm not I'm not doing that. That's not what they're not going to get into chakras. That's the related it's slightly different, but

we're not going to. When I was a kid, I saw the special where they were like trying to disprove ESP or prove that it existed and that was a lady who said she could see people's auras and they tested by having 10 people stand behind a wall in like different numbered slots and she had to tell them which ones had people in it which didn't because theoretically she could see their orders through the the wall. How'd she do? Badly. Very poorly. I can't say I'm surprised.

It didn't pan out. But don't get me wrong. I would love if that kind of thing worked because like magic is cool. Magic's cool. I'd love that if that worked. And it would probably make your job easier. You wouldn't even have to stop in the patient's room. You'd walk right past it like, oh, that's lime green. I can sense the pneumonia coming from their room. Kind of run the pneumonia vibe. 10ccs of yellow. 20ccs of burnt sienna stats. Stat that all you'd have to do to to go to medical schools just memorize the crayola box. Yeah, CC stands for colored crayons.

So the Egyptians believed in chromotherapy. They thought it came from their god's thoth. Thoth? OK. Thoth. Thoth. Thoth. I'm not.

I didn't develop a list, suddenly. It's THOTH. Right. If it's pronounced something else, let me know. So they would use gyms and stones and saves and minerals, all of different colors for healing, different colors for different problems. The Greeks also use similar ideas, different gemstones, different minerals. I can see it.

They have a kind of a sexy appeal, different colors, you know, seem powerful. I mean, we've always used color as different, like purple for royalty, different kind of meaning, so why not? Why not healing properties? We're already just making offerings to various gods to ask for cures for things at this point, so I don't think it's that far off. Come at her, right? I mean, yeah, rub something red on it, who knows?

And during this time period, a sunlight was often used in general. So that and that was the reason that's included in chroma therapy is that it's you know all colors. Right sunlight. So it's white light. You would just have somebody stand outside in the sun. Could those get that D? There you go. What else? Yeah. They would also paint rooms different colors. So this kind of straights a little bit from the light, but it's kind of getting into a Feng Shui vibe now. Yeah, well, and it kind of borders on that idea that like surrounding yourself with certain colors will they're definitely psychological effects, but there was very much of a leaf that it could also heal you know physical problems as well. But they did have healing rooms that would be painted to kind of mimic nature. So you'd have like a green floor

and a blue ceiling and you would hang like prisms in the windows to let light come through. Seems like I don't know about all the healing, but it seems chill. Like chill. Like, chill. I'm into this room. A lot of this stuff, it would be, I mean, I don't think that it would be surprising to say a blue room would be calming. Mega chill, you might say.

And I'm not suggesting that it's not. I'm not suggesting that all those people who tell you that a red room is gonna make you want to eat more, you know, that they're wrong. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it's not going to maybe heal your, you know, open wound. And it'll make you want to eat more McDonald's, but it won't cure the diabetes you get from eating McDonald's. There you go. That's what I'm saying. Right on. Now, Avicena, who is a famous writer from the Islamic Golden Age, he wrote many medical texts, 40 of them, 150 other various texts, very clever guy.

Unfortunately, I also believed in chromotherapy. Can you win them all? And he kind of invented the concept that there were different. He has a, there's a chart, and it has to do with temperatures in the body connected to different physical conditions that can be caused and then linking those to different colors that could also kind of denote the problem. So if you can like look closely at the patient and see

different color changes and then also what colors could be used to combat those problems. So for instance, he believed that red would stimulate blood flow, the color red, that you could use blue to slow it down or cool something down that was inflamed. You could use yellow as a laxative. Sure. That kind of thing. So, so he came up with this big chart in the Canada of Medicine and kind of set out like the groundwork for this theory. One example that I ran into there,

and then many times as I was reading about this, is that it works both ways. A color can fix a problem, but you also have to be careful of the application of a color because you also noted that you could make a problem worse if you use the wrong color. So for instance, if you have a nose bleed,

don't shine red light on yourself because then your nose will bleed more. What are you finding a red light in this time? It's not good. It's not good you can get gel from the, gels from the theater supply company. And then, and I'm sure that, well, I don't know if gemstones maybe. Of course, we had stained glass, right?

So I mean, we cover. So yeah. Yeah, I've said something. So you could, I mean, they're a way to make different pigments and things at the time. That makes sense. Lamp covers, maybe that kind of thing. Yes, lamp covers. Yeah, sure. Why not? I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. You're looking at me like that's a bad idea, but I think colored lamp colors covers is a fine way. You didn't have any better ideas. I know this is the main problem you have with this theory. It is not the main problem. I'm curious about how they executed it.

I'm not saying that maybe it sounds like there's a great truth and something I want to explore more in my day-to-day life, the healing power of light. You're going to do this aren't you? What if we could both be doctors but different kind of doctors. This is my wife. She's more of an alipathic physician and I'm more of like doctor light. This is okay. This is where I know that Chromatherapy is not an accepted Healing technique that's just North America. It's just we have an open right no solid evidence that it can be used to Trader's not to be solid is light think about it And if you don't believe me, I've never heard of such a thing double check me on web MD where you get all of your medical information Don't lie. You know, that's where you go. I, I get it all from the rays of the sun, pop a sun, the sun is curing beams down

up to me and all this children. So these theories persisted. Theories, you say they were such a sneer. Let it in. One of the next practitioners had a great name Augustus Pleasanton. We prefer children, not practitioners. I'm gonna give you that name again. A Augustus Pleasanton.

A Augustus Papa Augustus, we call it Pleasanton. He was a Civil War general. So war general name Pleasanton, that's very good. He wrote a book about how great the color blue was. I want to read that. That's pretty good. He wrote a book about how great the color blue was. I- I'm healing instead of reading. I want to read that. Oh, for healing.

I thought it was just, I could really chill that book about, hey, it's me. It's a awg, awggy, awggy plez right knee from the front lines. It's 153 pages long. Yeah, I just want to reiterate. I don't want to. I am so into blue right now. I'm really feeling the color really into blue. Check out my sequel, Greenish.

Kind of that next. Although he wrote about the healing properties of the color blue on the human body, but he also noted how it was really great at making grapes grow and making animals fertile. Man, what can the color of blue do? Now, I wanna know how that experiment was set up. Cow, look at this.

Hey, Salon. How fertile do you feel now? How fertile do you feel, cow? Hey, cow, you like this blue? He inspired Dr. Seth Pankos who kind of came up with a modern concept of chromotherapy, which is mainly about an extension of what we've already talked about. Codified methods of shining different lights on people for various lengths of time, different

parts of the body, and what those colors of light can do. And this kind of moved to the next century. There were all kinds of different color healers who were writing about different ways to use different colors and the spectrochromometri in cyclopedia was written. And spectrochromometri. Chromometri. Right. There we go. And throughout that century we have kind of the definition of all the different colors. So what each color was for was, um, this is getting a little birth of a nation for me right now. I'm warning you, the territory you're varying into.

What the colors are for and what they're good for. It's getting a little racy for me. Do you want to know? Yeah. What do you want to know what they're good for? Yeah. Just don't like, you're starting to sound you want to know what they're good for? Yeah. Just don't, like you're starting to sound like my great grandpa right now with all this color talk.

I started freaking me out. What are you trying to, I'm talking about like Roy G. Biv. Okay. Well let's just keep it, let's keep it steady there. Okay, watch it. You watch it. All right, red. Tell you what the colors are good for. Okay. This is a family show. So I want good color and it's You watch it. All right, red. Tell you what the colors are good for.

Okay. This is a family show. So in one good color and it's all the colors. I'm going to delete you're the mother of my child. We don't eat. We don't eat. This views your spouse. That kind of humor is, that's not prime time humor.

Oh, man. It's bringing that kind of humor. I'm just trying to keep, I'm just trying to keep you from, from, from bringing your extremely socially conservative viewpoints in this program. There's no room for it here. All right, so let me tell you about the colors. Here she goes again. Drunk Uncle off on another tangent.

Go ahead, tell me about the colors, Sydney. Yikes. I already mentioned that red was great at simulating blood and growth and energizing your organs. And it's really good for sex stuff. Oh, it's a sex though. Yeah, so there you go. Red neclogy. It was noted specifically that you should not use red for cancer, which I think you could

apply to any of the other classic things. And if the other colors as well, don't use any colored light for cancer. Would be my advice. Right. Including but not limited to red. Yes. So I would agree with that piece of advice.

What do you mean I'm not in a mission? I use light. I sat in the light like it's, did you try, was it red? Yeah, it was. There you go. That's your problem. No. Now orange on the other hand would be helpful for me right now because it can increase your milk production. Fantastic.

I think you should just stick to the cookies I'm making you. The cookies are much more to adjust in is making me these lactation cookies which actually mom made first. I have to give her credit first. Yep. But now Justin is making them they're really good. If anybody's breastfeeding, look up lactation cookies, make those sufferers. I'm making these blueberry bramble ones. I'll send you my recipe. No worries. Leave out the brewers yeast though because it can make your baby gassy. Yeah. And why would you want that? Make your mom gassy too, but also the baby.

Now yellow light is good for the stomach, the liver, the intestines, and your stool. Okay, so that has a certain logic here, right? Because we're dealing with like, bile, that kind of deal. You can see where somebody would have come up with this idea. Right. However, it's also good for scars. So I got nothing there. Yeah, I'm not sure.

Green, it says that it's good for basically anything. Great. Because you have to spend money. And you know that it's reliable when they say this is pretty much good for healing everything. They mention specifically that it's good for cleansing germs. Now, scientifically, I don't really want my germs cleansed. You don't? No.

We don't want that. You want to scrub your germs? Or you want to just get a mosque weeky clean? No, I wish I'd kill the germs. You're right. Yeah, I take issue with cleansing germs. I think that the fact that your home, I think the fact that you're hung up on semantics right now is maybe missing the point of the fact that green light is even in the equation

right now. Well, if I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, they at least need to say it right? Fair enough. Alright, so blue is more useful. It's good for stopping that bleeding. So if you cause a nose bleed by looking at red light, go look at a blue light. Perfect. You can also use it for headaches, high blood pressure, and hysteria.

I liked that application that you could treat hysteria with blue light because hysteria, as we have mentioned previously, is a fake problem. And this is a fake cure. So it kind of, that's nice, actually, when they can dovetail like that. Yeah. My thing is better. Well, good. Probably cure it. It wasn't a thing, sovetail like that. Yeah. My thing is better. Well, good. I'm probably curious.

It wasn't a thing, so I'm glad that it's, yeah. Indigo light has uses, but I'm not gonna address them because it's not officially part of the rainbow anymore. Burn, what's up? So you're out into go. Take that. We're going right onto purple. Pluto, cure stuff too, but we're not even full

with that either. Yeah, forget it. We didn't even put it on our kids' wall. She's got the whole solar system. No, not Pluto. No, not Pluto. Purple is good for alcohol addiction. Nope.

Tell that to the bottle of crown oil I got in some I covered. It's also good for white blood cells. That was very non-specific I thought. I mean, you have those. They're good. Yeah. So this is good for white blood cells. That was very non-specific, I thought. I mean, you have those. They're good. Yeah. So this is good for those. Feel good.

Look at this. He's look great. It also has the added benefit of decreasing sexual activity. No. No, okay. Maybe you've never seen Princess Bedroom, but I can definitely, definitely say that one is BS. Also, why is that a problem?

What do you mean? Why do you need to decrease sexual activity? Oh, you're saying like, well, you know, for some part, remember. This is listed as a healing property. But for some people, the population, a little overactive sex drive, nymphomaniap, perhaps, and they need the purple light

to suit them. I don't think it would work. Now, Sydney, I'm looking ahead here on the notes. It says here, white is good for everything. Yikes. Again, with the racially charged material. Can we just do our science show? Oh, there it is.

Please. I just like that this was a, this is a medical treatment in which green and white are pretty much good for everything. Go hard. It's a Marshall, Marshall, whatever. That's a local football team. Marshall reference for those of you out there we are. This is somebody's list of the box I sound just shot at.

Marshall. There's a cool moment for them. You know if you are looking for a movie to watch this weekend, you might treat yourself to hit Maxima Kanye film, we are Marshall. Film right here in Huntington, you can see Cindy's dad for like a half second in one of the scenes. That's right, he is there. Now, things got a little sketchy.

We moved into colors that, at this point. And above board until now. Well, I felt like we started moving into colors that are a little bit harder to, I mean, like magenta is our next one. We're really including that in our prime. Like, you know, these are the colors that are easily. Well, that's hard to recreate too, magenta.

Magenta. You don't wanna make sure you nail it. But you've gotta get it right because the healing property of magenta is that it strengthens contact with your life purpose. Whoa, that's the secret. I don't know what that means. The secret.

I copied that directly from the strengthens contact with your life purpose. Okay. So, pink is good for grief and sadness. And then finally, turquoise. I like turquoise because it's good for sensitivity and intuition, but also for disinfecting. Sure. I'm at my most empathetic and receptive when I'm free of germs. Tercoise that seems a little more useful than for intuition, disinfection.

Those are pretty much what we're working with now. Now you understand the basis of curmatherapy. Yes. Okay. I can tell you're myself well-educated. So some different applications. There was a doctor Fenson who he had observed that ultraviolet light can inhibit the growth of bacteria, which is true, right?

We know that ultraviolet light can be used. A real care for light, a real use for light. Awesome. But then he went on to just use randomly different lights to treat wounds to try to get a smallpox scars and to cure TB. I think he had like a TB clinic where he went and got light treatments. Couldn't just be happy with that ultraviolet and having the bacteria thing. Although I can see how, you know, we give all time

people a hard time, I bet it is kind of confusing that, especially in 1877, one of these things works. Something actually kind of happens. But I don't think that's fair to say. Like, were we that dumb back then that when one thing worked, we were just like, well, there we go. As someone who is 60 episodes of this show in I can confirm that yes, we are just that dumb

Harry Spittler later developed Centonix based on chromotherapy Centonix is something that if you start to do some research, you will find is very much still practiced. Absolutely. This is where you shine different lights directly into somebody's eye to do different things, to bring different things into balance and to cure different problems.

So you would kind of sit there with, I don't know, like some kind of goggles on and they're shining a color of light into your eye for a certain amount of time, so many times a week. It can do everything to, but from know, like some kind of goggles on and they're shining a color of light into your eye for a certain amount of time, so many times a week. It can do everything from treating anxiety and depression to correcting a lazy eye or different visual issues near-sightedness of different visual problems. This is basically lacing, right?

Oh, yes, this is what lacing is. Basically. It can it's been said basically so no matter what I say it's correct. More or less. It can cure dyslexia. It's one of the claims. It can improve your tennis game. It can make you read faster. You can feel calmer all the longer. It will speed your reading along. Well, that is true. You can try different lenses and prisms and light colors. And basically by improving your vision and your visual problems, you're going to improve your whole body.

That's kind of the theory. And like I said, there are people who are practicing this mainly optometrist, not all optometrist. I'm not saying that your local optometrist is doing this, but you will find that there are hem optometrist who do this. Excellent. Currently, there was also some interesting research done in the 50s that linked sun spots to levels of non-specific unnamed proteins in the blood that can change your menstrual cycles. What?

And so therefore proving that light had an effect on your body. What? This was repeated in the 80s. I can't imagine it was confirmed because it probably wasn't right in the first place, but that was where they began to say that, well, sunlight then maybe absorbed the eyes can affect internal organs, and this was more support for all of this craziness. Okay, so speaking of this craziness city today,

what's going on in this field? Like I said, it's considered a pseudoscience chromotherapy at this point. There are people who are still practitioners of it. You can go to them for chromotherapy and they're basically just going to shine different colors of light on you, either on your whole body or different parts of your body, depending on what you're complaint is. There are also infrared sonnas that you can go to with different colors in them. Excellent.

You can just sit in a purple sauna if you're having too much sex. It sounds chill. That's also at Princess House. All right, practitioners can use... Well, I'm kind of not cool down, Rome. You've been having too much sex. Is that your prince impression? They even the purple line.

Did they beloved? Is that what prince sounds like? That's basically what print sounds like. Practitioners can use everything from gems and candles, prisms, lenses, color baths to lasers, and crystal wands. Okay. Wait a second. I sincerely doubt that crystal wands at any point

have been held by any but well I shouldn't say anybody because we will believe anything about me crystal wands. All I'm saying is that if you're going to a doctor's appointment because you're like I don't know gosh my stomach's hurting really bad and I've been pooping blood for the last week and they pull out a crystal wand in response. No no No problem. What? Like leave.

Yeah. And don't pay them. Let me consult my ala communities. You can also combine it with hydrotherapy if you're just in the mood for all kinds of things that don't really work and get one of those colored shower heads. You know, like they have in sky mall. Oh, yeah, that's yeah, that's a healing. That's a therapeutic item. Yeah, then you get the ability to medicare.

The therapeutic light and water. And you're, I mean, you're clean, right? Which I approve of. There's also a chromotherapy torch that I found advertised, which is a- I'm sure this is a British site then. Yes, okay. Which is a flashlight.

In American speak. Yes, that's what we, this is what we call a British site then. Yes. Which is a flashlight. In American speak. Yes, that's what we call a torch, flashlight. In which you can insert different little colored like clear discs. I had so it'll shine different colors. I had something like that when I was eight that I used to shine the bat signal on my wall. So I'm well acquainted.

So you are already a, you already practice chromatheros, but you're saying I'm basically plugged in this tech on the I like the the frequently asked questions for this product one of the one of the frequently asked questions was Can I use it on animals? Yes, I'm here to guarantee you that it will be just as effective on humans as well on animals equally effective. I'm going to need some pink light now to fix my grief and sadness over the fact that there are that many people who are trying to use chromotherapy on their animals. Poor thing. They're also colored sunglasses. You can buy if you just want to look at the world.

Here's some cool magenta shades. And then on this website, in addition to all of these, you know, medical devices, the manuals, charts, etc. You can also buy a decoder wheel and a mood ring. Excellent. If that gives you some idea. Like with all fine dealers of therapeutic goods. So here's the deal. I didn't find any solid evidence that chromotherapy is real. There are uses for light in therapy. A lot of people would mention for high-billy rubin levels and babies we use UV light. So there are ways to apply light in

medical practice, but shining purple light on somebody as far as I know isn't going to do anything other than, hey, I like the color purple so maybe it'll cheer you up. Thank you to everybody tweeting about solbona's our program like Carly Amanda C. Corey who asked if we were gonna have an episode today Here you go, Corey. Also Katie Madeline, Brendan Steve, Honto Carr, sounds like a barbarian Adam, Carrie Justine, Korn, Slim Dog, Bethany, Alex Bob, Hannah, Clohu, Josh, so many others. Thank you so much for tweeting about our program. We hope that you have enjoyed it. We're at saw bones on Twitter, so you can

Talk to us that way or use the saw bones hashtag. We've also got a growing Facebook group for you to come join us search for saw bones there and come join up. It's lovely community people We'll put episodes there and some photos and Kind of great stuff. There's a picture up there right now. Maybe Chuck gonna blanket one of our dear listeners made us so you can go enjoy that. Thank you to the Maximum Fun Network for having us on. They've got a lot of great shows. Thank you to the taxpayers for the use of their song medicines for intro and outro. And I think said that is going to

do it for us. Right. Yeah. Thanks to iTunes. We have a house to repay. A training about our show. We appreciate that. I think you're the best. But that's going to do it for us for right now. Until next Tuesday. I'm just Macaroi. I'm Sydney Macaroi. As always, don't draw a hole in your head. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture, Artistone Listen or Supported.