Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Dr. Mesmer and the Power of Animal Magnetism

Episode Date: April 1, 2014

Welcome to Sawbones, where Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband Justin McElroy take you on a whimsical tour of the dumb ways in which we've tried to fix people. This week: We mesmerize you. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

Saw bones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books! One, two, one, two, three, four! We came across a pharmacy with a sewing box locked it out. We washed on through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines, the escalant macaque for the mouth Wow, hello. We're ready and welcome to saw bones a meeral tour of Miss Guy to medicine. I am your Co-host Justin Nakaroy and I'm Sydney, Macro Sydney. I want to say belated happy birthday to you Oh, thank you Justin It was your your 31st birthday and I'm 33 and I can't help but thinking like do you we are old? We are so we are getting so crazy old that we're older than anybody who's ever lived but that's not what I was going 31 felt old 31 felt old yeah 30 didn't feel old 31 feels it cuz it's like it's anti climactic yeah it's like 31 now I will continue on into my 30s yeah Yeah, marching. I remember when I was in college

I thought people who were in their 30s were the oldest people on earth We had one guy and our like good friends who like secretly hit 30 and was like a seek it was like a dirty secret Did you hear he's 30? He turned 30 like it really happened. Anyway, Sid your 31 on 33. I feel like we're running low on time for our great invention I do one on 33. I feel like we're running low on time for our great invention. Did you have anything particular in mind while we are gonna invent?

I don't have any particular areas for expertise or any specific creativity, but I feel like we're running low on time for our great. Like, I just wanna know that after I'm gone, something will be named after me. Like, you know. Like your legacy, like the thing. My me. Like, you know. Like your legacy, like the thing that. My legacy, like you know the guy that invented

Tottino's Pizza Rolls? Like they named those Tottino's after him. Like, I'm really. You think that guy was named Tottino? Yeah, Tottino and they worked Tottino's Pizza Rolls. Was that his first name or last name? Both, Tottino Tottino. Are you?

Like the founder of West Virginia, Morgan Morgan. Morgan Morgan, right. Uh, do you? So what do you West Virginia, Morgan Morgan Morgan Morgan, right? Do you? So what do you think it will be? I don't know. It's just an eyes something or just an justification. Just anification, just an eyes. I'm having a really just in that.

That sounds negative. That sounds negative, doesn't it? Yeah. I don't know. We'll think about it. You know, the doctor we're going to talk about today succeeded in this goal. Yeah, what do he get? Yeah, well, have you ever heard of the word mesmerize? I have. I have heard of mesmerization. Mesmerization. Mesmerizing. Mesmerizing. Maybe.

Or mesmerizing, right? Yeah. To mesmerize. To mesmerize. That's a dude. Yeah. France and Tain mesmer. Mesmer. Yeah. France and Tain mesmer. What was his deal? So, Dr. Mesmer was born in Germany in 1734. His father was a master forester. I only mentioned that because I didn't know there were such things as master forester. You keep chopping them down and planting new ones.

You'll get there someday. I'm patta on. How many trees do you have to chop down? Do you think to become a master for a star? You know, here's the surprising thing. It's 50. It's not. It's not. It's a very low bar. Maybe there's quality measures too, not just quantity. Like you have to chop down 50 trees, but you chop down 50 trees. But if one tree falls on you, you lose your standing for a week. So is that all it is if you can survive jumping down 50 trees?

Survived jumping down the trees, don't stand where, because it's hard to guess. We're really gonna fall. I don't know. Well, I think that's part of becoming a master forster as you know, you know, which way they're gonna fall. You gotta get your tree out, get your graph paper

and just go for it. So he did not fall on his father's forestry footsteps. Right, because he can't track him, because his dad's too good at Florida's thing. I don't even think we know it. So he did not follow in his father's forestry footsteps. Right, because he can't track him, because his dad's too good at his forest thing. I don't even think we know what he's done. The forestry is. He doesn't leave footsteps. He instead, he studied medicine. I'm boring. Yeah, I'm more conventional. At the University of New York. There's a whole forest out there for your son. I thought I'd leave this to you. You've let me down today, Fron.

There's so many trees still standing. I swore, I was your age. I moved every cursored tree, this great earth. Every tree in Germany. Let me down, Fron. Okay, so Fron studied medicine. He studied medicine. He actually, I think this is kind of interesting.

His doctoral dissertation was on the influence of planets on the human body. Okay. This was basically, and we'll see this kind of theme echo. Just made up. Yeah. The idea is that there are tides in the human body, like a fluids or whatever,

and that they're influenced by the movements of planets and the moon, kind of like the tides of the ocean or influenced by the moon. I mean, it affects your health and mental wellbeing and all that. I think what the weirdest part about this is that this was probably just plagiarized. Good start, Franz.

Good start. So it's kind of a bizarro theory and it wasn't even his. Oh man, that's not. Good start, Franz. Good start. So it's kind of a bizzare theory and it wasn't even his. Oh man, that's not a good start, Franz. We keep going. I don't, and I found that mentioned several places and I found two different things about it. One, it didn't seem like that big a deal. So maybe the guy who really made up the theory was like,

well, it seems dumb in retrospect. He's welcome. Let's let it be that mesmer, guys, full. And two, it was also mentioned several times that it was pretty commonplace to plagiarize your dissertation. No, we could read anyway. Back then, it's practically cave man times. I thought that was pretty... So there's the justification. So maybe you should, hey, if you're working on your doctoral dissertation, just plagiarize it and then say, I am following in a grand tradition.

Of stealing. This is just what you do. We're seeing you operating out of. So at that point, he started practicing medicine in Vienna. He married a very, very rich lady. And you know, this is always that point, I feel like in our episodes, where he could have just had a really rocking life, right?

Yeah, everything was going fine. He's a super rich doctor. He's living in Vienna. He's got a big fancy house. He's a huge patron of the arts. He's like a buddy of Mozart's. Well, I mean, Mozart was like 12, I think, when they met. So, I mean, I don't know about buddy, but I actually wonder if there's something to that. Like if you don't have enough money, then you're basically like focused on paying the rent and keeping food and clothes on your kids' backs. Well, you shouldn't put food on your kids' backs. We know I'm sad.

Like, unless that's a weird game that you make them play. Like who can get the food off of your brother's back first? You know, I think the distractments from the hunger most nights. But maybe like once you're like independently wealthy, it leaves the brain free to wander into stupid alleys where you can find dumb ideas. Well, that's exactly what he did. You know, instead of just enjoying this really rock-and-life, he started experimenting with

magnets. He had actually in one experiment, he would have a he had a patient swallow Like a compound that contained iron And then he would attach magnets to various places on her to try to figure out where food goes when you eat it No, just to influence her health and well-being With magnets people are still doing that so people have people have always been fascinated with magnets We I don't think we've ever done a show on this. We should do a show on this at some point, but magnets are a big thing.

When it was over, she felt a lot better. And what was weird about it is that, this is the kind of story that you would think would lead into. And so he came up with the idea that magnets should be used in medicine. No, instead he thought, you know what? I don't think it was the magnets.

I think it was me. Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! I know it seems like it would be the magnets. What do you mean?

This is how he came up with his theory of animal magnetism. This is really what it's called. There was something wrong between me and Victoria, something visceral that I think he healed her with my personal sexual charisma. You're not that far off. It's really the idea. Okay, so wellness, health is the free flow of energy throughout the body. That's what he believed.

That there are these channels throughout the body and if this fluid, this, I don't know, this magnetic fluid, I mean the fluid is, does have a magnetic property. If it can flow freely, then you're healthy. But when one of those channels gets blocked, you get sick. So when you are sick, the only way to fix that is to transfer energy from another person into you, or it could even be from an inanimate object, as long as it was imbued with the magnetic energy of a person who was a really great conductor. Okay, I got it. So he thought I'm a great conductor of Magnetism energy of healing energy, right? So you don't need the magnets. You just need mesmer I wish more doctors did this. I don't know. I gave her aspirin and he went away But I think there was something there though

I don't think it was the ass I think it was me. I'm gonna call her I don't think it was the ass, but I think it was me. I'm gonna call her. I haven't been in vanity yet, but I'm gonna give her a telegram or something. No, no, no, no, remember, it's not just a sexual, personal connection kind of energy. It was this kind of, you could think of it

in a very platonic way. It's an energy that all of us need and some of us are just better carriers of and so we can pass it on. But it's not necessarily like a sexual attraction. Okay. So once you overcome these blockages with the help of this, you know, magnetic energy, it'll restore balance to your system. And the energy itself, like I said, it's this magnetic fluid that's in your body and he believed that it was made of air and fire and spirit. Okay, so he was still workshopping that bit of it.

Aren't those like what Captain Planet has made up, at least part of it? It's most of the Captain Planet team. And heart is in there, I don't know. Wind? Wind? Water. Isn't that air? I don't know. Air, fire, wind, earth. Earth, wind and fire. Earth, wind, water. Isn't that air? I don't know. Air, fire, wind, earth, earth, wind and fire.

Earth, wind and fire. The temptations. The temptations. Chicago. And more, this summer, at Silphaz coming out to the river bin. We've got all the greats. You're going to talk about some animal magnetism. Yeah, right.

Thank you. Wait till Lionel Richie gets up on the mic. Okay, sorry. So okay, in Vienna, he he didn't get a lot of footing with this theory. He started trying to practice it. He was on faculty at the medical school there and that was not it. People were not down with us. Yeah. And actually what did him in in Vienna as far as you know his respectability was where he kind of succeeded. I think this was really weird. What I read initially is that he tried to restore the site of a blind musician. He couldn't do it and he was kind of you know publicly shamed afterwards.

What it what it really was is that he tried to restore the site of Maria Teresa von Paradis, who was actually, she was a blind pianist and Mozart actually wrote a piece for her. So, kind of a big deal. He attempted, she had been struck blind suddenly at the age of three. He attempted to restore her site and from the accounts that I read from her family, he did partially succeed. Okay. Now, I again, I don't know that this proves any of his animal magnetism theories. No. But somehow the fact that she could sort of see actually made her unhappier than before. It made her life worse. She didn't rely on her

like her finger memory to play piano anymore. She started looking and it caused her to make mistakes because obviously her eyesight was still very poor. Right. And she, I mean, she's still probably by today's standards would have been considered legally blind. But it started making her life worse. And she wrote that she was happier before this ever happened to her. And basically the family kind of blamed him for even more problems than she'd already encountered in her life. And he was shamed and kicked off faculty and had to move.

Wild, okay. Kind of a weird story. Yeah, that is a weird story. And then he set out to ruin blind people. That's the world. By partially restoring their side. This is origin story.

He, uh, at that point, he moved to Paris. Okay. Um, and there he was, he was, he was met with some mixture of views. Um, people had kind of heard of him and they were like, Oh, no, that's that weird guy. The one who, you know, I like that. Nobody likes that guy. Nobody likes him. Um, but then he recruited one follower, uh, uh hangs out with most of them. Nobody likes him.

But then he recruited one follower, Dr. Charles de Eslan, who was actually really well respected in Paris. It's all it takes is one. You convince one person to believe in you. And that's pretty much what happened. This one regular doctor who everybody liked said, you know, I actually think there's something here. And boom, there you go. At that point, he really started developing his treatments.

So I wanna tell you about the treatments that he used to, you know, practice his animal magnetism theories. I'm ready. Okay, so first of all, you could just go to Mesmer or to Ezlan, once he of all, you could just go to Mesmer or to Eslan, once he was trained appropriately, to have one-on-one therapy. Okay.

So one-on-one therapy is when you go, and you go, I don't know, I don't feel good, whatever you don't feel good, you know, whatever that means, you're sad or you're stomach hurts or you broke your foot or whatever. All the above. All the above. It's, again, this would be a cure all.

So you go to Mesmer and he sits across from you and he might touch your hands for a while. Well, that's nice. Or maybe just put his hand right below your diaphragm and like in the area of your stomach right below your diaphragm. Okay, hey, hey, they're hot shots. Slow it down a little bit. How about some dinner?

What do you think? And then just hold it there. Okay. And then he hold it there. Okay. And then he would probably wave his hands kind of around your body, like around your head and over your sides. This would be the moment that I had start to suspect my $20 had been wasted. And this could go on for hours.

Wow. Just this keeps getting better and better. Now, if this is too weird for you, it is. Maybe you want to bring a buddy, bring a friend along, and go in like a group. You know, this seems like the kind of thing where if you're not familiar with it,

maybe you want to go as like a group of people. OK, that makes sense. So, in group therapy, and again, this is probably a bunch of rich people in Paris. You would all go in together and you would sit around a back-k. Oh, it's a back-k? It's like French for tub. All right. But a back-k was like this big wooden tub with a lid on it

and it was filled with water and iron filings and broken glass. Okay. But there's a lid on it, so you didn't see that. Okay. But he would tell you that, I mean, it was like a secret, but that was in there. There were like holes in the top of the lid

and you would have like the number of holes dictate how many patients you could treat at one time. So each one would sit at one of the lid and you would have like the number of holes to take how many patients you could treat it one time So each one would sit at one of the holes and there was like a glass bottle with a metal rod sticking out of it that would extend Out of the hole. Okay, okay, so you kind of get the idea Yeah, you have me grab a picture before we got started So I'm I'm looking at what I assume is a back. Hey now. is a back hay. Okay. Okay, you can look this up. It kind of looks like a Mr., no, not a Mr. Bucket, the crazy water,

like the octopus water toy that you took a hose into and it sprays. It does and the little metal things sticking out of it would start squirting around in the air and water all over the place. Yeah. It did not do that. It looks like if a spider got super fat and its legs

could no longer reach the ground. With a real ugly a long top. A big fat spider. Like a big fat spider. There were also some ropes hanging off of the device that were mainly like to attach you to the device and to attach. In case things just got like so cray. And to attach each other, you do each other. So you'd kind of all either hold hands or tie yourselves together in a big circle. And then you would set the metal rod like on your body somewhere. You could hold it or it could rest on your shoulder or your stomach, probably wherever you were having a problem.

Okay. So once everybody was in place, mesmer would take over. And this is why I think this more than anything is why mesmerize means all the things that does now. So you've got to understand, you would, he would do these treatments in his home. So you'd come with all your rich friends,

all your fancy rich friends, to his very fancy, you know, Parisian home. And it was, I mean, just the, you know, decadence and opulence just gorgeously outfitted. And you would be led through these beautiful rooms to the room where you would, you know, sit around the bouquet. It was all dimly lit. There would be this like slow, beautiful, translike music plane, and he was, you know, elaborately dressed. Okay, so wait a minute. I hate to stop you.

You are basically describing the plot of Rocky Horror pictures. So that is basically what is happening here. That, Mesmer is basically Dr. Frank and Furter, and he is basically basically exactly rocky hard. It shows what you're describing here right now. That's pretty much it. Basically a bunch of rich people doing the time warp.

That's all it is. Thinking of those moments when. And that was a big, a big part of it is that these people would come in and they were the time warp. At the time warp is it then they would do the time warp. And then I always figured it must, when I read read about this it must break out into one of those like Eyes wide shut orgy scenes. Oh no question. This is all orgy pretense like that's obvious Toats toats obbs very nice try old-timey people, but we here in 2014 are on to you. This is total orgy pretense

We know what you're doing. We know what you're doing. We know your game. So you picture all the internet. All of these gorgeously dressed women when they're big wigs and everybody's like sitting around this thing and They're listening to this music and it's it's dark and it's you know everybody's like oh my gosh the luxury and they're holding these things And they're waiting for something amazing to happen. And then Mesmer starts wandering around the room, talking because there could be three of these going at the same time in the room. Talking in this quiet voice, encouraging everyone to whisper, don't talk out loud whisper, if you must.

And basically working them into kind of a trance. And he would carry a wand and touch them with his wand periodically. And then he would wave his hands around them and wave his hands around the bouquet as a way of kind of controlling the fluids inside. He would say, I'm controlling the fluids. What are they supposed to be getting out of the bouquet? Like what is, is there a heat coming from the pipes or is there water or nothing? No, there's nothing about it that's no, it's not doing anything.

It just looks like a big stupid ice cream maker. Yes. With like metal rods coming off. No, because again, it was coming from Mesmer. These were conducting fluids, like yeah, they've got iron and they've got water and we were kind of vaguely like mimicking something that sounds like science. Guys, awesome. And electricity thing.

But really, I mean, the idea is that it's coming from Asmers that he is able to steer the fluids in the container, which are helping to steer the fluids in you. And what he's working you towards and what many people would have during these sessions is a crisis. Good. Good.

So when the treatments finally worked on you, and again, a lot of people in the room would have this crisis during these treatments, you could, this could manifest in a variety of ways. You might throw up, you might start coughing, you might start spitting things, you may enter like a hypnotic translate state and just become very calm and still, or you may become insane for a minute. Just a bit. That's very common. It will pass. Whatever happened, it was only temporary. And in that moment, when you entered crisis, the belief, his belief, is that you could look

through your own body and see the source of your own illness and correct it. So find that blockage and fix it. Okay. And in these group therapies, he took it a step further and said that in that moment, you could also see inside the people around you in order to help them understand their illness and fix it. If you did it exactly right, you'd see the matrix. What I'm telling you is when you're ready, you won't have to dodge.

This is also how you see things in those 3D pictures, you know, with the squiggly lines. Right, we just slightly cross your eyes, yeah. A lot of people would leave convinced that whatever was wrong with them was better, at least for the time being. Yeah, like after that, it's either that or tell people what happened.

I think you just wanna go with, oh yeah, it's way better. It was also a very trendy thing. It was very, like the well to do, enjoyed it, and a lot of women would go back just for like a diversion. Like it was a fun thing to do. Was that being mesmerized? Like, was that what the... That is today, yes.

That is where that would have come from. At the time, they weren't saying, like, oh, you were mesmerized. But, yes, that is what we're referencing. My problem is this, hard to franchise. No, you need mesmer. You have to have mesmer there. Good for him, bad for, you know, the mesmer, mesmer incorporated. Which is probably why I didn't catch on. that hugely is that he, I mean, he trained

he had a protege, um, Charles Eslan, but I, you don't read about his treatments being like this. Oh, and Deslan eyes is like, doesn't exactly trip off the tongue. No. Um, during this time period, as he was gaining some, you know, popularity, he did write a book. So there is a book where we can read about all this if you're interested and where he outlines animal magnetism and practices.

He did win some favorite, Marie Antoinette was a huge fan. But and there were some societies of harmony they were called that were springing up around France and there were basically groups of followers of mesmer who Would have somebody kind of be the leader in the group who would learn the techniques And then they would have like little meetings different places around France and probably other places in Europe to be fair It eventually spread somewhat to England and to the US And you could pay and become a member of these little weird the US and you could pay and become a member of these little weird society. So did there some franchising? He knew he had to get it out there a little.

Yeah, yeah. There was some limited, you know, interest in it. But there was a lot of controversy. This was not something that was widely accepted. There were people who thought it was good, and then there were plenty of people who criticized it. There was actually a play written about it. So if you're ever interested, Elizabeth Inchball wrote animal magnetism, which was a farce of the practice and a huge send-up of it at the time. I bet that'd be, still be a total gut buster today. I was thinking we should do it with our children's theater.

We'll reenact it, yeah. Don't you think? I can't think of anything better than a bunch of 12 and 13-year-old girls acting the sound. Yeah, I'd pay to see that. So this sounds like, you know, this is the kind of thing that could have just kept going. You know, it had modest following and rich people liked it. And he was a you know an

attractive cool guy but Louis the 16th stepped in and said you know I think I'm not a big fan of this for whatever reason he upset him it made him mad and he said I want an independent commission to investigate this and find out if there's any truth to any of this. Not so much. He was not, and this is very important, he was not seeking to prove that Mesmer was a quack, so to speak. He just wanted to find out if this whole idea of like animal magnetism and this magnetic fluid that may or may not be in the body if any of this was true. So we got together a crew.

Yes. So we got together a crew. Yes, so we got together a crew, actually, that included Benjamin Franklin. He was in town if you were not. And it actually, the commission met at Franklin's house because he was older and sick at the time, and it was just easier for him. Mesmer, in a very clever clever move did not go himself.

He sent Deslan. Ah. And said, Hey, why don't you go, you know, answer all these questions because you're such a good, you know, you understand this as well as I do. Good buddy. Old pal. I don't want to, don't you want to meet Ben Franklin? Imagine it. You then it bifocal.

He'll tell you the kite story, I bet. Go check it out. You then did Bifocal. They'll tell you the kite story I bet. Go check it out. So Deslan went and he walked them all, this commission through the theories and explained everything to them, showed them, I'm sure showed them the bouquet and all of the different things they did.

And then they put him through some tests. And one of the tests that I thought was a great example of what this was. So they asked him to magnetize something Okay, so you you were a follower of mesmer you have this ability to transfer energy through yourself So magnetize a tree. All right now see even I know this is going to be problematic Find any tree on the grounds go magnetize it with your hand waving and Then we're going to

blindfold this 12-year-old boy that we've got hanging around. Sure, okay. And we're going to have him go find the tree by feeling the magnetic forces that you have, you know, imbued the tree with. Okay. Okay. How that works. So he magnetized a tree, blindfolded the kid and he wandered around the yard and He continued to wander further and further away from the appropriate tree Saying I think I'm getting closer. I think I'm getting closer. I'm feeling the magnetic force and then he passed out Not a great showing for animal magnetism. No, so it didn't work. That was not, I would say not a successful test.

Yeah. Now to be fair, I don't know all of the other magnetic kid Olympics that they, that they, that they, whatever I test some skill that they had. I don't know if this is just like a school field day that happened to overlap. Yeah. And they're like, we'll just kill two birds with one stone here. And, and almost kill one kid. I have no reason to think that the kid wasn't okay. If anybody's worried, by all accounts, the kid was fine. He's seen fine.

He's seen fine. He's seen fine. He's seen fine. He's seen fine. From wandering the yard, aimlessly blindfolded, looking for a magnetic tree. So I'm assuming that was pretty much the end of mesmerism. That pretty much was.

At that point, they wrote up a report and basically said, if there are any effects, it's imagination. That put it into mesmer practicing a lot in Paris. He actually, after this, left France, which was probably good for him because this is right before everybody started getting guillotine. Oh, okay. Right before the reign of terror. So it was probably a good thing that they did him a big favor. He was exiled though after that. He still lived out the rest of his life rich, I should say. Oh, thank God. Now, what exactly he did?

I don't know. He was still patron of the arts. He still loved music, but I don't think he did much in the way of medicine after this. Now, the great thing about people like this is that no matter how bizarre their theories and practices, there's always going to be somebody to pick that, pick up that ball and keep running. Sure. Right.

So the legacy he leaves behind, other than obviously the word mesmerize, which, you know, we all know now where that comes from, is that there were people still practicing this throughout different parts of Europe and then again in the US until the 1920s. Wow. So we're talking about the late 1700s to the 1920s. Yeah, like 150 years, I'm like, yeah,, that these, after long after he died, people were still practicing mesmerism. If you remember from our phonology episode, we talked about the Fowler Brothers. They got into mesmerism as well.

That was part of their business. Where you would, I mean, and this is essentially the same kind of thing, you would sit down with a practitioner and they'd wave their hands around you and put you in sort of some kind of trans-like state and then you were fixed. And what's even more interesting is that because this is, as you may have gathered, kind of closely related to hypnosis. Some would call Frans Mesmer the father of hypnosis. So although the two theories are hardly identical. Hypnosis being sort of realish. Yeah, yeah. Us actually having some like evidence that there is something there with hypnosis and there are certain ways

to practice it and you know there are certainly very many people who are trying to do studies on hypnosis now. Mesmerism kind of led people in that direction, and those ideas inspired what was later known as hypnosis. One other thing I thought was really interesting, I read this on a psychology website about kind of the history of psychotherapy is that this was also known as the first secular psychotherapy. Up until that time, any kind of therapy was very much based on the teachings of the church and was told from a religious perspective. And while there certainly was some kind of spiritualism, you may say, to this therapy, it was not based on any kind of traditional Judeo-Christian or any other kind of religious background,

which opened the doors to the, I think I saw it phrase, the great unchurched to intertherapy, which was a good thing. So good news. Nobody got hurt too bad. Say for a few well off folks in a poor discredible blindfolded 12 year old. And maybe a blind pianist, perhaps the jury's still out. I don't know. I don't know. I think that was that was pretty interesting. and obviously today This isn't practice hypnotism is but mesmerism mesmerism is not Well, thank you so much for listening to our episode here about our our new friend and personal idol friends mesmer You the pretty cool dude. It seems like a cool guy. I kind of dig it

So maybe that's the, the, you know, the moral of the story, Justin, is that you don't actually have to invent anything that's useful. Just name something after me. Just make something up. Run with it, huh? It would be really cool about it. And then we'll name it after you.

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That's going to do it for us this week. And be sure to join us again next week for another set of solbons. Until then, I'm just Macarois. I'm Sydney Macarois. As always, don't joke over with your head. Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture, Artist Owned Listener Supported