Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Epilepsy

Episode Date: April 22, 2014

Welcome to Sawbones, where Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband Justin McElroy take you on a whimsical tour of the dumb ways in which we've tried to fix people. This week: We squeeze a beaver's scent glands. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We pushed on through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines, the escalant macaque for the mouth! Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Soblins, a marital tour of this guy at medicine. You know, I'm Justin Macro. And I'm Sydney Macro. What are you? What are you doing there, Justin? Oh, I'm looking through a list of saints. Are you just surfing the web? Are you just like checking out your sights? I'm trying to do a show here. of saints. Right. Are you just surfing the web? Are you just like checking out your sites? I'm trying to do a show here.

No, I'm trying to find a patron saint that I can identify with. But so far, I haven't found any for video games. There's none for like people who write on the internet. There's not a patron saint podcasting. Did you Google saint video games? Saint video games of a CC. Did you really think that would work? I thought I could check, but there was,

I'm not having any luck. Well, I can speak to this with a little bit of authority. Oh yes, you're of the Catholic persuasion. That's right. And now, I don't know all the saints because there are a lot. Name all the saints. No are a lot name all the saints No, I never I never had to do that because I don't know if you've ever checked it out

But there are a lot of saints so certainly a whole like there was a Remember we had I had that giant book of saints There was like a saint for every day, but then there's extra saints for some days because there's too many saints that you they can't each have their own day There's a lot of saints said I don't think there is a saint video game or a saint podcast or like a well I mean, I don't think he wouldn't change his name to say comedy genius. Thank you first. Oh gosh gosh I'm so flattered. I don't think he would be named saint podcast. That would be a nice confluence But I think you probably this patron St. podcast. That would be a nice confluence, but I think you'd probably

this Patience St. of podcasting, right? Like St. St. St. Mary and St. Justin, St. Justin would be fine. Patience St.

Hey, maybe that should be your goal in life now. I guess I'm wondering with so many different, you know, so many different saints, there certainly gotta be some to spare, right? There's gotta be some area I can dip into to maybe file an appeal with the big guy. And see if you can get a saint of something that you do. Exactly, I'd say. I'd say transfer from one department to another. Somebody that you can ask for help

when you need to, I don't, beat a level. Yes. Or write about beating a level. Exactly. Exactly. That you need to beat a level or write about beating a level? Exactly. Exactly. That you have described the full scope of my job. Yes. Write about beating levels.

Beat a level. Beat a level or write about beating a level. That's my whole gig. Well, there is one area where we probably have more saints than we need. Are you familiar with epilepsy? Uh, not as familiar as I imagine. I will be in about a half hour, but I'm okay. I caught on.

I'm okay. I know that the Pokemon calls them a lot of problems a few years back because of the flashing. That's true. That was a big issue. That's true, see? I had this connection there. So this is a natural fit then. Yeah, it's perfect.

It's a perfect natural organic fit for me. Epilepsy is one. And then there are plenty of other things that have excess saints to represent. But epilepsy is one that has about 40 different saints. Oh, come on, epilepsy. Listen, I know. It's a hard road. You have to hoe there, but like

You can't spend one for your buddy the J man there's games or podcasts There's one big one St. Valentine actually. Oh really? Is the biggest probably the number one patron saint of epilepsy, but there are And you know, we always throws it around too, you know, they all get to get well I mean if there's we all do a great job guys, but I think if you had to point to one, it's gotta be me. Which isn't, doesn't seem very fair, because he's kind of already got a whole thing. He's got like a whole thing. Why is he got to be so stingy? I don't know, but there are 39 other guys. I bet you people with epilepsy are tired of hearing about Pokemon. When you think about there, too, let's,

let's try not to bring up Pokemon the rest of the yeah. Okay, Sydney, I'll just go a half hour talking without talking about Pokemon. I doubt it, but let's give it the old college try. It would be it would be a great present for me anyway. Did somebody suggest epilepsy? Actually, yes, two people suggested epilepsy. Oh, wonderful. Both Lisa and Amanda. Thank you both so much. If you want to suggest a topic for our show, you can write a solbones at maximumfund.org. That's the best way to suggest if you want credit

because we get a lot of tweets and sometimes we'll steal ideas from there, but like it's hard to keep track of the list. Yeah, we try to keep a running list. Yeah, but you can email us there. Anyway, Apple App Store, I'm assuming this is a very old. So Apple App Store is extremely old. As long as we've been writing about illness, we've been writing about epilepsy, more or less. From the earliest written history,

you find mentions of epilepsy. It comes from the Greek word that means to seize, possess, or afflict. I'm assuming the reasoning for that will become clear. afflict. I'm assuming the reasoning for that will become clear. Well yes and it's interesting because this perception of epilepsy because there are so many different names. This is actually if it has a lot of saints it has even more names epilepsy. Things that it has been called throughout history and a lot of them come from the the root of possessing or being seized by some sort of madness or evil forces. A lot of the words that even today are used for epilepsy, especially in a lot of Asian

cultures, come from that sort of root. And that just simply reflects the fact that through most of his history, epilepsy was seen as more of a spiritual disorder than a physical disorder. I'm going to guess that's not accurate. No, not accurate at all. So if you ever want to look, you can find, I actually found it, it was called at one point, the disease of a thousand names, which is great because no, now technically at this point, it's a thousand and one name day because you just gave it another one

But there are 50 recognized epinems. There was actually a study I would have had to buy it if it was like a real deal Research paper that somebody wrote on PubMed that I would have had to purchase in order to get the 50 different names So I'm sorry, but I found some examples St. Valentine's Malady Okay the 50 different names, so I'm sorry. But I found some examples, St. Valentine's Malady. Morbis comatallus, which means disease of the assembly hall. That's a spell you cast in Harry Potter to give someone epilepsy. Morbis comatallus. No, it's disease of the assembly hall. I don't know why. I don't know why it's the following. It's also known as the falling sickness, which you may have heard before.

Yeah, I'm actually familiar with that one. And there are lots of others. It was first written about in Mesopotamia around 2000 BC. And it was when they were actually describing a witness seizure. Now, they didn't call it a seizure. They didn't know that's what it was. It was usually you would hear it referred to as a fit. You hear that a lot.

So they described the person falling and shaking. And at end of it, and it was a very well-written account of a seizure, but at the end they said, so clearly this person is under the possession of the moon god. Also known as the hand of sin. I wanted to clarify something for myself, and maybe we'll talk about this later, but not everybody who has seizures or everyone having a seizure is epileptic, right? Or has epilepsy, sorry. Not necessarily, there are a lot of different reasons

why you can have a seizure. Epilepsy we're really using for people who have a seizure disorder, I think is what you'll hear it kind of commonly referred to as, but epilepsy is the same idea. You have a condition in which you have seizures periodically. But if you have a seizure, for instance, because maybe you're an alcoholic and you're withdrawing from alcohol, that doesn't make you an epileptic.

You just had a seizure. Okay. It makes sense. And seizures, we say sometimes in medicine like everybody gets one just because you've had one doesn't necessarily mean you have epilepsy. It could, but it doesn't necessarily. I haven't used mine yet, which is quite a relief. Something to look forward to.

I guess. I should clarify. That doesn't mean everybody has a seizure. Okay, I got it. It just means that one seizure does not necessarily necessarily mean you have epilepsy. Now you could and that could be the first one of many to come, which is why if you have a seizure and I guess this probably goes without saying you should go see a doctor, especially if you're having one right now, like what are you?

Listen, we'll still be here. Go get checked out. Get your priorities straight. Actually, call somebody else to take you to get checked out. Don't drive. Don't drive right now. No. So our first written account of seizure in Mesopotamia, we thought it was the moon god, and we promptly exercised him. My guess is that it didn't work.

Sorry. It's also mentioned in Hammurabi's code. Oh, really? So shortly after about 1790 BC, it's listed as a reason that you may be owed a full refund for a slave. Wait, if the slave has a seizure, you can, as long as you capture receipt, you can go get a new slave. Well, as long as they have a seizure within three months of purchasing.

Okay, fair enough. There's a time limit. There's a warranty. Basically, you've got a three monthmonth warranty on your slave on your slave And which you can say, oh, I'm taking them back yet a seizure Accept you again. You don't know seizure so a fit. Yeah, an attack. Right. Evil spirits got him But nobody keeps the packaging, you know You can't keep the warranty. No, it keeps the warranty. No, we keep the packaging. You have them writing. No, of course not

We need a paper pay for yet. You have your seat. I probably didn't make paper. I'm sorry. Was it chiseled into stone, like in the Flintstones? I'm sure well the code of him or Abbey was, right? Yeah, right. Or is it the Rosetta Stone?

Who can keep it straight? Well, I mean the Rosetta Stone is definitely a stone. I think we can definitely. All right, listen, listen, Sassy. It's also, I think a language program. Yeah, all right. Let's move, I think a language program. Yeah, all right. Let's move on. I'm getting frustrated now.

So in addition to a full refund on a slave policy, it also states that you can't marry if you have epilepsy and you cannot testify in court if you have seizures. Epilepsy, seizures, detailed and Babylonian texts, Ayurvedic texts. A lot of it at that time is specified as a loss of consciousness. So there was a lot of confusion that anytime anybody ever lost consciousness, maybe they're having a seizure,

because the two used to be simultaneously for a while. But either way, the idea was that it was always spiritual and origin. Something... Not physical. We were certain it was something with your state of your soul. Exactly. It was something either a God is mad at you, a God of some sort is mad at you.

You are possessed by a demon of some sort. You have moral problems, something to that effect. And the stories from the Gospels, a lot of people would probably already know that epilepsy is mentioned in the Gospels led a lot of credence to this because there were epileptics who were healed by a spiritual leader. So therefore perhaps it was a spiritual disease. That's species though, because they, they, spiritual leaders cured non-suitual diseases too, right? That's species though, because they, they, spiritual leaders cured non spiritual diseases too, right? Well, I think these are so curing everything. Welcome back, by the way.

Jesus, he was curing everything left and right. That's true. I think that they look for, they find a lot of support for it when there's one specific mention in the gospel of Mark. When a tonic, clonic seizure is described very well. It's actually a really good depiction of what a tonic clonic seizure looks like. But then it is. Well, it's a tonic clonic seizure, sidebar. So like the shaking, like stiffening and shaking. Tonic clonic is the stiffening and shaking. Clonic tonic is the worst mixed drink you can get.

Don't even order it at your waist in your time. But then they say that they've been struck by the spirit of dumbness. Oh, like, probably like the non-speaking. Right, right, because I'm assuming, and I haven't read the incomplete description myself, but I'm assuming that the patient couldn't speak at the time, which is very typical of a seizure.

You can't speak. That would be very common. So somebody laying on the ground shaking and stiffening and then not able to speak, they were struck by the spirit of dumbness and then they were healed, which further connected it, especially as the gospels were interpreted years and years later, further connected it as a spiritual disorder. So what everybody else think about it? Well, the Greeks took a slightly different view of epilepsy. They thought it was definitely something spiritual.

They still were not on board with any sort of physical cause. Specifically, they thought it was what happened when the goddess of the moon, either Artemis or Selene, got mad at you. So there's definitely a spiritual connection there. The goddess of the moon gets mad at you and she punishes you by giving you epilepsy. I feel like every time I hear Selene, there's a spiritual connection.

When she hits the bridge in my heart, we'll go on. It's like, yes, I'm there. We could be a thousand miles apart and it's like, yes, I feel it. I'm there with you. I didn't know you were such a Celine Dion fan. Maybe you should pay closer attention to me. I'm sorry I didn't know you were looking for a patron saint. Yeah exactly. What do you know about me? Clearly not much.

They however, although the Greeks did think it was the result of making a goddess angry. They did think it was also a divine Malady and they associated it with genius. So if you were an epileptic, ooh you made saline man, but you're probably very brilliant. So therefore it was called the sacred disease. Another eponym right there. So rare you find a disease that people actually are lining up to get. They want they want that disease. This was probably bolstered by the fact that Julius Caesar had epilepsy. Very hot, very trendy. Yeah, exactly.

So Caesar's got it for some reason as part of the mythology of Hercules. He was said to have epilepsy. So then Caesar and Hercules both have it's like, who wore it best? I don't know. You have to decide for yourself. Who seizures with the hottest? Who seizures? Seizure seizures?

That's harder to say. Maybe that's worth it. I don't know. You could, because this was the conception of where seizures came from, you could cure them. If you were willing to spend a night in the temple of Selene and wait for her to come to you in the middle. Which is in Vegas.

Of course, you got to pay to you which is in Vegas. Of course, you got to pay $130 for the four seats. It's like not even worth it. Just kidding, totally worth it. Been there three times. Me and all the girls, we try to make it up every year. Highly, highly recommended at the blush. Right. Still talking about the moon goddess, not the Canadian songster. That is why I was like, you would think I would remember from earlier, but that is not correct. So if you decide to spend the night in the temple of Celine, which sounds like a really cool, like, dare for somebody. Yeah, right. I dare you to spend the night.

It's like the beginning of a, of a, uh, this is what we do episode. She'll come to you in a dream and tell you how to be cured. How to be free of the seizures. But it's different for everybody else. You really have to put the work in. Don't try to copy up your buddies. Yeah, your buddies. Let's lean told them. Now everybody's cure is different. And because of this idea that it was a spiritual disorder in addition to spending the night at a temple, you could also put up offerings to the gods. Obviously, prayer was a big component of your treatment, so to speak.

You could also, one cure that was not spiritual in nature was to try using drinking, eating, and by being in some way, caster from the scent glands of a beaver. So what's caster? So it's a substance that is secreted by the scent glands. Like that is that within the glands of a beaver. Where do people come up with this?

I don't know. And I don't know how you get, like, do you milk the beaver? The beaver glands? I'm gonna milk you. This is gonna get dicey. I'm gonna milk you. This is gonna get dicey. I'm gonna milk you to cure my epilepsy beaver. Come here. I don't know.

You had to capture a beaver. Milk is sent to my clients, right? Get that castor. And that was a treatment that that persisted for years and years and years. Like through the middle ages, people were still trying out this whole. Until eventually beavers are like,

enough, enough. It's not doing anything stop it until we ran out of beavers and that children is why the beaver is extinct today that's why there's no beavers that's not true there are beavers there's still beavers I'm glad you clear that up there Sydney I got really worried for a second I'm sorry I didn't mean to distress you do you also also love the animal, the beaver? Well, I needed caster from its glands. I love it. Not from my epilepsy, my- You don't have epilepsy, just do it.

Don't be silly. I know that doesn't work. I just love the stuff aftershave, brighten up a margarita. I think I found that it's used in vanilla, scents and flavorings. Really? I should be for a small grate. Now, I don't, you know what, double check me on that. Really? Uh-huh. So beaver smell great.

Now, I don't, you know what, double check me on that. But I think I- I will be double check. I was not looking for information on vanilla scents and flavorings, so I may have skimmed that section. I suck the explotative program. This is what we say not to do anything, because sometimes my wife barely reads the internet, and she thinks bevers and I like vanilla

No, it's a sign. This is why we don't It has nothing to do with the matter. It's why we don't skim said we've talked about this So there was one Greek who didn't agree with this Hypocrites so pretty smart one. What was his game? Hypocrite said, you know what? I don't think this has anything to do with gods or spirits or anything like that. I think this is a physical disease that comes from the brain. Wow, good guess. Yeah, that was like right on.

Yeah. He thought that it was, they was heritable, that you could pass it on through family lines. And that it was probably treatable, although he wasn't entirely certain how. He did think it was treatable by something other than spending the night and got his temples. So he proposed the same kind of stuff you would use for anything back then. So a healthy diet, exercise, balance your humors. Sure.

So various methods of excreting substances, whether it be peeing a lot, the diuretic, or puking, or bleeding. and then there were some herbal things. So the classics. Right. So he didn't really have any novel treatment ideas, but he definitely was right on with his, you know, theory of what caused it. He also wrote an entire book about the sacred disease and then changed it. Change the name.

What do you uh, what do you go with? He changed it to the great disease. Okay. Which is where grandma comes from when we talk about grandmaw seizures or generalizing. Oh great disease, grandmaw disease. Great disease. It makes sense to me. The crazy thing was that Hippocrates who a lot of people put a lot of stock in, you know,

back then and and to this day were pretty impressed by Hippocrates who a lot of people put a lot of stock in, you know, back then and and to this day We're pretty impressed by Hippocrates and his ideas A lot of nobody listen to him. Oh good. No, he gets one right. Yeah, he was totally right and everybody was like, no, you know I know what you're saying. We love the listen Don't get us wrong. It but crates. We love the oath crazy about it But I think I'm gonna stick with the whole beaver scent gland We're really into that right now and it's being a spiritual and everything like we're very much feeling that So despite the fact that all you know an ancient Greece

Hippocrates had this great idea that was totally true for years and years after we continue to see epilepsy is primarily a spiritual disease. There was one interesting idea that came out of the Greeks a diagnostic idea, which was if you thought somebody had epilepsy you could wash their head and then burn a ram horn under their nose. If after inhaling the ram horn fumes, you fall down, you've got epilepsy. I get so tired of these people and they're crazy, crazy diagnostics and cures. It doesn't make any sense and you were just guessing. It's got to be a sick. The Romans had a different idea. They would you're just guessing, it's got to be a sick. The Romans had a different idea. They would just hold a piece of jet, which is a kind of stone under your nose,

and wait and see if you had a seizure. Or got annoyed, it was like, stop it. You're killing me. That was actually a pretty common thing that you would do before you purchased a slave in the Roman, in the time of the Romans. Just check them. Kick in the tires, sort of.

Kick in the tires, or check Kick in a horse's teeth. You would hold a piece of jet under their nose and see if they had a seizure. Because you didn't want to have to bother to keep their seed and get that refund. Yeah. The Romans also had a strange idea for treatment, which we I think may have mentioned slightly

in a previous episode, the blood of a gladiator. Yeah, when did we talk about that? In the cannibalism episode. Oh, right, of course. The liver of a gladiator would do as well. And as we mentioned in that episode, that idea, now not of gladiators necessarily, but drinking blood or eating liver from a person,

that treatment plan didn't completely go away until about 1908. Okay, I can sort of get it. I sort of get that one. That's not as crazy as that. Wait, wait. You sort of understand the cannibalism? No, don't misunderstand me.

I would not personally ingest the liver of a gladiator or nae even Russell Crowe. Well, how about any other human? I mean, are we just, you're just not going to eat a gladiator? You know what? I draw the line there. I'm not going to eat a gladiator. I guess what I'm saying right now is that I get why you would see a gladiator like fighting people crushing it, uh, doing a great job and saying you like, I'm gonna eat something of his. I'm gonna eat his liver or drink his blood and maybe I'll get strong too. That makes sense to me. That I can see the line, the old time people are drawing. That's all I'm saying. That's it. I'm still gonna keep one eye open tonight, I think. That's fine.

I would not eat your liver. That's that was in our vows. The, uh, Galen also had an idea. We talked about him a lot, but that it was due to thick humors in the brain. He also was one of the first to associate it with, because it was associated with the moon, the moon was often associated with madness. And so you see this theme arise again and again that for some reason if you have epilepsy, you also have some sort of psychiatric disease. But there's no psychiatric effects? No, no, no, it doesn't.

There, there, if you, no, I, I, I will say this, if you read about it, there is some slightly higher likelihood that you may suffer from some other sort of psychiatric, like maybe depression because of epilepsy, but that they're not the same thing. They're not connected. It's not causation. No, it's not causation. No. Like a me. Yes, good job. There may be a correlation, but it is not a causation. It's not a psychiatric disease. It is a neurological disease. Got it. In the middle ages, when we were crazy and didn't understand anything.

We got worse notably in the Middle Ages. We forgot everything that we ever knew about anything. We definitely thought it was a sign of evil or witchcraft. Even our ideas about drinking blood didn't seem so good. We just went right back to prayer, fasting, sacrifice things, perform exorcisms. That's when all those 40 saints really came into play. Because what else can you do? Just pray to somebody. Just keep picking new saints, I guess.

It's weird because in the same time period that witchcraft was seen as a big cause of epilepsy. And there were actually some people were burned at the stake because of epilepsy. Some people were accused of witchcraft, were actually just epileptics. Gosh. It was also, some people turned to witchcraft to cure epilepsy. So there were various like- Well, they are the dog, huh? Well, I think it was one of those where, yeah, sure,

it's fine to point fingers and accuse somebody else of witchcraft until it's you or your kid. And then all of a sudden, you're willing to go to the neighborhood which and say, hey, you got one of those amulets that you gave the other epileptic person. Try anything. And at the time, trying anything was kind of the name of the game.

There were a lot of different herbal remedies, Valerian, Fox Glove, Misselto, Beledona, just anything that you thought worked for something, you may as well try for epilepsy. In the Renaissance period, we also added a lot of like metals to that and elements, copper, tin, mercury, silver, zinc, whatever. Just taking whatever shot the dark we can.

Anything, that's when the human skull treatment, we mentioned this before. If you grind up some human skull and ingest the powder, we think, well, that covers the brain. It has something to do with the brain. Maybe if we eat some skull, why not? And mugwort was a very popular treatment. It's mugwort. It's a kind of flower kind of plant. It's also part of absinthe, which led to absinthe becoming a very trendy treatment as well. At least you have some laughs, right?

Make you feel good. Yeah. Yeah. And I should say, Mugwort was a very popular treatment at the time for everything. It was a real cure all of the time period. Yeah, they were real deep into absinthe. They got it. Well, I mean, have you tried it?

Yeah. I mean, half. It tastes like burning. It's hard. It is. I know Nyquels for grownups, but if there was something above grownups, absinthe if I know Nyquels for grown-ups, but if there was something above grown-ups, absence would be the Nyquel for them. Absent is the Nyquel for grown-up grown-ups.

And then it's rubbing alcohol. Right. So, as I mentioned, throughout this time period, more and more of the association of epilepsy with mental illness was being made. So there were a lot of people who suffered from epilepsy who were locked up in asylums. There was this whole idea of an epileptic personality where even when people weren't having seizures, they were seen as being negative and angry and immoral,

which of course none of this was true, but they were diagnosed with all of this. And as I said, that they all had spiritual issues, that in some way they weren't right with God, which is why this is happening to them. And there were also some specialized institutions, not just the general psychiatric words where a lot of people were sent, but special epilepsy institutions where you could kind of send your family member, if maybe you didn't want to acknowledge them. She is weird.

Have not done well by epileptic people. No, not at all. Well, we had no idea. And if you've ever seen a seizure, they're scary to watch. And I can see where, if you don't understand anything, it would really frighten you. And you may think, oh my gosh, this has to be a punishment for my higher being because I've never seen anything like this in my life. Well, and there is something about it that is weirdly, I mean, not to be cruel, but it is dehumanizing to watch.

I mean, the person does not see, they're not in acting on any sort of human impulses in the moment, and that can be really disconcerting if you don't have the cause. Right, they don't have no control, And that was very frightening to watch, which is why so many people confused it with possession, time and time again, that something else was in control of them. And because of this, it has been stigmatized all throughout history. From the earliest days, when we thought it was a spiritual disorder

and we thought people had you know upset gods to you know even as recently as you know 30 years ago. We thought it was contagious for a long time and so even in the early church people with epilepsy had to sit segregated from everyone else. They couldn't share the communion cup, they couldn't touch any holy objects because they thought it would they would desecrate them If someone with epilepsy touched you you were supposed to spit on the ground so that the demons couldn't pass from them to you No offense. No offense, but I've got a spit real fast

Just let me spit real fast because you did touch me just one second Expanded to an idea came along in Germany in the 13th century that you could even get it by somebody breathing on you. So if an epileptic were to breathe on you, you had to spit on the ground. Oh. So I guess if they walked down the street, everybody's just like spitting, which is really great as we're moving through all these years,

where tuberculosis was a big problem. But that was a long time ago, right? Right? Well, unfortunately, this persisted, these different sorts of laws, for instance, in the UK until 1970, epileptics were not allowed to marry. Yikes. That's right. And there are still some areas where in India and China, where it could be grounds for you

to refuse to marry somebody. If you find out they have epilepsy, other there aren't laws against it. In the United States, it was a state by state law, but the last state actually repealed their ban on people with epilepsy being allowed to marry in 1980. Oh my God. That's right. That's horrifying. And in 1950s, epilepsy in the US could be used as justification for forced sterilization.

Oh my God. People with epilepsy. I'm sorry. They really benefited from, you know, the Americans with disabilities action, all of the, the ways that we've finally stopped discrimination against people with disabilities, because until the 70s you could deny People with epilepsy a job you could deny the mentoring to your restaurant you could deny the mentoring into your theater People with epilepsy listen

On behalf of people without epilepsy. I want to say I'm sorry I owe you an apology if you have epilepsy and you see me in public I want you to walk up to me and demand your apology because I on behalf of my ancestors that did not have epilepsy I I am very sorry and I will owe you an apology. I would echo that because it's it's really a crime. We knew that it had something to do with brain electrical activity as far back as the 1930s when Hansberger invented the EEG. And it led to a much better understanding of the root cause of the disease. We had treatments with medications that worked like Phenetone in 1938,

Dylantin, an old seizure medication. It was approved by the FDA here in the 50s. So we've known that it was a physical disorder from the brain since way back then. And now we have, you know, tons of different medications, of course, that can treat epilepsy. But even to this day, you will find studies where they see in like classrooms, for instance, teachers have more negative views of children with epilepsy than children with other chronic disorders, like maybe asthma. And I think it's just that stigma that's been around since, you know, 2000 BC, unfortunately in some ways persist today.

Ugh. I know, it's a really sad thing. It's terrible. So I thought I'd tell you about some famous people with epilepsy to make you feel better. Okay, tell me. So I already mentioned CZ. People who beat the odds.

Alexander the Great. All right. Handle. Okay. Joan of Arc. Cool right. Handle. Okay. Joan of Arc. Cool. Van Gogh. Wow.

Dostoyevsky. Nailed it. Van Gogh Shwin. Fantastic. Good job, everybody. There are many, many others. Many others. So thank you to all of you people with epilepsy that managed to succeed despite society trying

to apparently just like really mess you up all the time constantly. I'm sorry for your raw deal. Don't let them hold you down. And if anybody comes at you with a beaver, just run. Yeah, you don't deserve that. Thank you, everybody. Tweety about the show. We're at solbons on Twitter. I think it'll lens liquor, Corey Dutson, Mommy Chatter, Katie Lorraine, Lynn's liquor, Corey Dutson, Mommy Chatter, Katie Lorraine, Caitlin Garinger, Garinger, sorry, Kevin rushing, Andrew Brasa, Devon Bug, Teresa Kern, JD Harper, Libby Knight, Tin Todd, Saria the cat, Amy Clark, Barnhart, Megan Schuler, Layla, so many others. Thank you so much. Again, if

you want to tweet about a show show you can use the link to our program Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww the goose down, lady to lady, Ono Ross and Carrie. My brother, my brother and me. These are all, if you like our program, I guarantee you'll like, I would highly recommend Ono Ross and Carrie, they'd go into more like modern stuff than we do, but similar vibe, and I think you would enjoy it. And Justin's on at least one other show. Yeah. At least one of the ones we've mentioned.

Yeah, so find it. Good luck. Figure it out, listen to him all and see which one is it. It's a that, huh? And that's gonna do it for us. I believe thanks to Tax Bayer, to let us use their song medicines in the intro and outro of our program.

And until then, that's gonna do it. Please join us again next Tuesday for another episode of Solvla's, until then, I'm Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture Artistone

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