Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Hydrogen Water

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

Dr. Sydnee has ruined her TikTok algorithm for the listeners once again and came across something called "Hydrogen Water." Similar to alkaline water, hyrdrogen water goes through an ionization process that leaves it with excess hydrogen molecules. But . . . is it better than regular water? Probably not.Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers https://taxpayers.bandcamp.com/

Sawbones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, this one is about some books. One, two, one, two, three, four.

Two, three, we came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert.

We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert.

We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. We came across a farm in the middle of the desert. Hello everybody and welcome to Saw Bones, a marital tour of misguided medicine. for the mouth. Oh, you can't do that. Hello everybody and welcome to Sawbones, a marital tour of misguided medicine. I'm your co-host Justin McElroy. And I'm Sydney McElroy. I'm really hoping you didn't clock the moment

where I stared up into the heavens, trying to recall what podcast I was recording and how I started that podcast. Hey, J-Man, I'm used to that. Yeah. Yeah. I just gotta get, it's like a loading, like a, I feel like the jukebox, getting the, to make myself super relevant,

getting the vinyl out of the slot and watching it pull it out and play it and start it. Yeah. You know kids, you know how the jukebox kicks up the vinyl. You know how it picks up the CDs and. Or the CDs, none of that. You know how it pulls out,

they should have one that's full of Napsters, where you just reach in there and it takes out a Spotify or a Napster or a LimeWire, and it plugs it in for you to listen to. All of the eras are just mixing there. Nobody expects a museum to be modern, right? I'm fully inhabiting the fact that I'm a 43-year-old man. So you're a museum? What? You're a museum. I'm not embarrassed to the fact that I'm a 43 year old man. I'm not embarrassed to the fact that I'm irrelevant.

I'm a font of information. I'm historically relevant. I would back up that I think that- It's a secret. This is a cultural treasure. Outdated references are a cultural treasure I'm passing down. No, but I think specifically when it comes to technology

as it relates to like music and media and device technology, I would say you're kind of a museum. And I do, but you're like uniquely poised. We're of that right generation where we experienced all of it very quickly through our most formative years. We ordered a VHS tape recorder, like a VCR camcorder. VHS camcorder to use as a prop in

Charlie the Chocolate Factor, the show we're doing this summer. And both Sydney and I, when we opened it, were like, what, everybody look, kids, get in here. It's just beautiful. I can see it propped up on my dad's shoulder at every Christmas and beach vacation. So many 80s families had that moment where the one of the parents brought home the VHS camcorder and the whole family's freaking out and sitting there trying to react and

our kids are like, what could that do? What could it be for? What could it do? And I'm sure that if you're of this age, you have those tapes that's just like probably your dad. It doesn't have to be your dad, but probably a dad. A dad figure, a dad type, a dad type, holding it and just looking at like the beach

or like the room or whatever. Like there's no one there and just narrating, talking about it. Anyway, that's not, that doesn't really say anything we're talking about. I love the intro that you scripted for us. The question is, how does it relate to your topic? I'm really confused.

I'm gonna talk about our main topic. I wanna make a quick mention of something else that we got a lot of emails about. You're pinching at me. I'm worried. I'm pinching. I'm motioning at you. Like a little crab occurring in here. Oh, I didn't tell you about this.

But we got a lot of emails. I wanted to do, I almost did like a, sometimes I'm researching one episode and then something happens in the news and I'm like, okay, well nevermind, that's the, we'll put this one for next week, this is this week. And all the articles came out about the worm in RFK Jr's brain.

The dead worm that ate part of his brain. Have you heard this? From you, honey, from you, the person I know in my life that is very obsessed with the worm in RFK's brain. I am not. Let me tell you, I am not the only person who's thinking about this a lot. That's fine. You're the only person in my life.

RFK Jr., who's running for president, said that there was, I guess there was a time where in court he said he couldn't earn enough money to pay child support because a worm crawled in his brain and ate part of it and died. And so he has some cognitive deficits as a result. And this just was released. You know, stuff comes out on the campaign trail. Yeah, you ran out of conversations. Anyway, I'm not doing a whole episode on this right now because I don't know the nature of the worm that ate part of his brain. I've read a lot of articles from a lot of doctors who are like hypothesizing.

I'm waiting for more info. Okay, so we're waiting to get more of a complete picture. I would like to know exactly the nature. I mean, I could guess, I could guess. And a lot of these doctors have guessed and they're probably right, they're probably right. But we don't know. You don't wanna do that without any,

you don't want to be an armchair. So I just wanna let you know, I am aware of the dead worm. I am looking into it. If I find credible data as to exactly what did eat part, or, I mean, it didn't, like that didn't happen. That's not exactly what happened, but I will let you know. So this will not be about the worm,

but it is about another current medical topic. Well, it's current for me. And I think it's current in this country, but maybe a little older outside of the US. Okay. I got a TikTok surface to me. And I will say that this is as a result of the research I do for this podcast.

I cannot imagine that this TikTok would be surface to me based on what I seek out for my own enjoyment and edification, but for you, my listeners, this is the sort of stuff I seek out. Sydney's algorithm isn't shambles, folks. Everybody knows it. So there was a lady on TikTok telling me that her water that she bought has hydrogen in it, and that's why it's better than my water. And I've gotta buy hydrogen water, cause it's got hydrogen. And as you can imagine, because I watched this TikTok, and this is how things work on the algorithm, right?

You watch one and so then you get all the people who are like duetting or stitching. Chiming in, right. And they were already doing the thing that I was doing as I watched it, saying like water has, water has, it has, it is mostly, it is hydrogen. It's in there.

It's right in there. When you told me, me, a layman. So I wanna talk about hydrogen water because when people are selling hydrogen water, I think that, and especially if you listen, if you just saw those TikToks, you would think like, oh my gosh, this is the snakiest of snake oils, right? Like, what are you like? This seemed a little, this seemed like light work for you.

I was, it seemed like you'd be right. It's like selling salt with sodium in it. Yeah. Right. It almost feels like a dad joke. Yeah. It feels like I don't have water, but I can make you some couple particles of hydrogen mixed with oxygen.

Exactly, exactly. Okay, I am not saying that it's not snake oil, but there is more to it. I had to look into it to see like, are we really just rebranding water as hydrogen water? Or is there something else happening in this water that they can make this claim? That this is different than

Standard h2o water there is a difference. Okay, and I think I think that the reason a lot of people have this reaction is We don't know the chemical formulas for a lot of things like standardly right like unless you unless that's your area of expertise Unless you studied chemistry you don't know like Do you know what CH3COOH is? CH3COOH. If you look at my notes, then you're gonna know. I'm not looking at your notes. I'm trying to think, nope.

Okay, that's acetic acid. I know that because I have a minor in chemistry and I know that that's basically vinegar. That's like the primary, that's what makes vinegar vinegar, right? It's not all the vinegars, but that's like, right? So I see that and I think vinegar. But a lot of people don't, but you probably know CO2. Carbon dioxide. There you go. You probably know NaCl.

Sodium. Yeah. Well, it's not just sodium. Yes, sodium. Dioxide. Chloride. Yeah, it's not just, yes, sodium. Dioxide. Chloride. Chloride, yeah, there you go. If you saw NACL, you would know that was salt, right?

Yeah. You would know salt. There's one that spells out nacho. That's one of the ingredients in cheese. I don't know. And you know H2O, as you've already referenced. Yeah. Okay, this isn't just H2O water.

They've got extra hydrogen in the water. Sorry, I just wanted to clarify. Sodium citrate is the chemical formula and it's spelled, it's this. So that's the ingredient in the cheese that makes it melty and stuff, but it spells out nacho. It's crazy. I see what it is there.

Okay, that makes more sense now. Okay. You got, there's numbers in there? Yeah, there's all kinds of numbers. The numbers matter. I assumed, I'm not a smart man, Sid, but I didn't think people were just having some fun

with numbers. The numbers change things a lot of the time. Oh yeah. That is what it is. I've noticed that popping up in everything in the world. In everything in the world. When you change the numbers, it changes the thing. That's the thing about chemistry.

Yeah, that has been a real firm one lately. Okay, so how do they get extra hydrogen? How do you put extra hydrogen in the water? So the water molecule is an oxygen with two hydrogens on it. Okay. Right? Right.

You can see the little, it looks like a little angle. You know what I mean? There's like an O and then you can see the little drawing, two H's, little sticks off of it. Okay, so here are the different ways. Can I tell you, I've said this on the show before, I'm a biologist, that's my primary degree was biology. I like the goosey sciences,

I like the sticky gooey ooey yucky sciences. These are too, a little too cold for you. Yeah, when I start getting into chemistry, it's hard, I did fine, I did well in chemistry. Let me just clarify. That's good. I did well. Great. I earned my minor. It was harder, I had to work harder.

Biology comes naturally. I like things that are goosey. So I read about how they make the hydrogen water many times to try to get it straight in my biology brain. So first of all, you can perform electrolysis on the water. Okay. Okay, now this might start to sound familiar to you

if you listen to our episode on alkaline water, we've talked about that before, or if you are familiar with that whole sort of culture of like special water with special properties that you could even make at home. Cause they sell things that you can use to make this stuff at home. So you can basically shoot an electric current

through the water and you separate the oxygen from the hydrogen. And then you've got extra H2, little bonded hydrogen molecules, free floating. Broken the bonds, so you got extra floating around. You can also, this is a cool way, you can put magnesium sticks in the water and the magnesium combines with the H2O

and what you end up with is MgOH2, so one magnesium, one oxygen, two hydrogen, and then an extra two hydrogens over on the side. You got to get two H2Os in there. You get what I'm saying? Anyway, so you get these other molecules that leave you with excess hydrogen. Depending on what you're buying, if you're buying hydrogen water, they might use a different form. They will tout the ways that they created it, perhaps as like evidence that it's a better

way to do it. You can also, as I mentioned, you can buy machines called ionizers to try to do this at home. Kind of like the home alkaline, alkaline, alkalinizer, right? I remember there being a box. So basically they're like, it's like the same process to make alkaline water or make hydrogen water. You can use, you're using an electric charge.

Every time you say alkaline water, I think about that movie you and I watched on YouTube. Do you remember? Mm-hmm. What was it? It was the super, the super religious misogynist movie. Best Friends regurgitated or Best Friends recycled or something like that. This is about like a 60-year-old cat biker guy meeting

this lady who shared his libertarian mindset. And there's this like romantic scene at a dinner. And the first thing they connect on is the guy's like, this lady who shared this libertarian mindset. And there's this like romantic scene at a dinner. And the first thing they connect on is the guy's like, have you, or no, she says, have you ever tried alkaline water? And he's like, yeah, I'm really into alkaline. There's like a whole scene about how into alkaline water.

It's great. But there's also a whole thing that it's important like that they're virgins or something. I don't know. I'm not it's important like that they're virgins or something. I don't know I'm not a libertarian but libertarians you guys you gotta clean up your yard there There's a lot of people in there, and I don't know that we're all of that you're all of one mindset anymore That's the problem with libertarians You gotta, you gotta, well I don't know that's his right to be a dullard. I don't know Okay, moving on Anyway, I would not recommend. I'm glad we don't remember the name of that movie because I don't know. That's his right to be a dullard, I don't know. Okay, move it on.

I don't know. Anyway, I would not recommend, I'm glad we don't remember the name of that movie because I wouldn't recommend it. Okay, so you can buy these ionizers and they do one of those two things, and I imagine they're marketed to do different things. The plates that are used to charge the water are different.

One of them will make extra hydrogen and one of them will raise the pH, making it alkaline water. So there's electricity stuff happening. Oh man, see then we bridge over from chemistry into physics. And then just- This is like watching a technology connections video right in front of my eyes.

Like you have perfect grasp of the material. I read the description of this process so many times. And then I was telling a friend about it and they were like, are you talking about like heavy water? And I was like, no, like for nuclear reactors, no, I'm not talking about that. But that's also, it's a different form of hydrogen, but that is hydrogen water. It's just a different kind of hydrogen because that's the kind it's a different form of hydrogen, but that is hydrogen water.

It's just a different kind of hydrogen, because that's the kind that you use to make like nuclear weapons, not the kind that you use to sell people expensive water. Y'all, you will walk out of Sawbones, hopefully being a little bit smarter about biology and science and medicine. We never promised that you would leave this show any smarter about electricity and science and medicine. We never promised that you would leave this show any smarter about electricity and chemicals and all the things we're sitting at. Both are kind of like, I don't know.

Listening to you talk about it, it makes me feel how you must feel trying to listen to me talk about a biology thing, except if I don't understand it any better than you. So I'm just kind of nodding along like, mm-hmm, the metal plates, absolutely, reverse heavy water into it, break the bonds, absolutely. I am telling you, man, it's just bringing back

flashbacks of chemistry and it's, whew. Okay, part of the problem with this whole thing is, so you've used one of these methods to make the hydrogen water, okay? So people who are selling you hydrogen water have done one of these things to make the hydrogen water. Okay, so people who are selling you hydrogen water have done one of these things to it already and then bottled it. I mean one hopes, right?

One presumes. So then they've bottled it and they're selling it to you. Now, how are they gonna bottle it? Well, most water is sold in plastic bottles, perhaps glass, I guess, could be. Will that mess up your ionization though? Well, the problem is that hydrogen can diffuse through these substances. So they can get out all your precious hydrogen.

Yes, all your precious hydrogen can leave solution pretty quickly. And so once you've made hydrogen water, it won't necessarily stay hydrogen water very long. It wants to go back to being regular water. Well, or just diffuse through the walls of the container. The extra hydrogen just leaves the vessel. But then doesn't that- And then you've just got water. Yeah.

Yeah, it doesn't- And go back to water. Well, I mean, those hydrogens are not rebonding with oxygen I didn't mean that they were I didn't mean that the hydrogens were leaving the bottle to go find another water to be part Of there. It's not it's not Milo and Otis the law Not the incredible journey. It's just I'm saying the water goes back to being water Well, yes, the water goes back to me I meant that the extra little hydrogens, the H2s,

don't like find oxygens to re, like they're happy to be free of their oxygen shackles and they exit the bottle. Got it. Okay, so this begs the question. That's a lot of questions. How much hydrogen is in the hydrogen water that you're buying?

Like if you're buying a bottle of hydrogen water, it was made at some point in time, and then bottled, and then shipped, and then put on that shelf, and then at some point you bought it. In that period of time, did all that extra hydrogen leave the bottle, and are you just buying really expensive bottled water?

I mean, I don't know, but I'm hoping you're gonna tell me. No one knows. Nobody is checking the quality of that. Okay. Because it's just water. So this is sort of the problem with hydrogen water. Now I wanna get into like, okay,

in the US it seems to have become popular pretty recently. I think that it's following off of the alkaline water trend, right? Like, I feel like that's been, and again, I'm only speaking from the US perspective right now with this, because this is where I've lived for the last 41 years, and so I have watched this happen in real time.

We went from drinking water, which that was a big advancement. I feel like when we were kids, nobody drank water. That's true, it was kind of like, no, yeah. We all drank juice boxes. Yeah, for sure. Right? And our parents drank diuret or RC Cola.

And then we drank juice and then at some point they were like, kids are drinking too much juice, give them water. And then we all drank water all of a sudden. And at first it was just water and then there were filters for water. Ooh. Nice. And then there was bottled water, very fancy.

And then now this was the next evolution of water is all of a sudden we got like alkaline waters and now hydrogen waters. So it's just like water technology, it's just better waters, more expensive waters to sell people. There's Hampton Water, John Bon Jovi's Hampton Water. That's a wine brand that he makes with his son.

It's interesting because I feel like you have these two competing tracks that water has gone down. You have like the very natural, like spring water sort of thing. Like we sourced this water from a glacier somewhere and now we've brought it straight to you. And then you've got this sort of water, which is like, we biohacked it.

We made it better. This like earth gave you a water that was fine, but humans gave you a superior water. We have fixed water. We made water, ultra water. Anyway, so. It's also this annoying thing of like the corporations made water better than the government makes water.

The people, this is better than the incredible, like free, clean public water source. This is better than the incredible, like free, clean public water source. This is better than that. That comes through most of our taps, yes. Yeah, but a lot more accessible. Yes. So anyway, this is newer, I think, here, but this specifically, hydrogen water,

actually has a much longer history in Japan, where it has been popular for quite a while. And so I want to talk about like sort of that history as like why I think it has taken root and its popularity has been cemented here. But before I do that, we got to go to the billing department. Let's go.

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So Sid, how did this get a foothold in Japan? So it's interesting. It sounds like there was a lot of research being done. And I mean, this is since like the early 1900s on hydrogen. Hydrogen was a big area of focus, not just for like water, but for energy. Right. Yes, exactly. That's obviously a big splitting the atoms of the hydrogen is how you make

the bombs and you're going to get energy out of it too. Now, Sid, could you give everybody a quick primer on sort of like hydrogen fusion for energy purposes and like how that all works? Nope. Okay. I believe that, moving on, I think that even as I was trying to read articles about specifically the history of hydrogen water in Japan, which like you can read little, a lot of the excerpts about that come from the different companies that sell hydrogen water. So it gets difficult to like trace the actual history of like there was research being done to this day

I think it's a big area of like focus of research in Japan is hydrogen used for various applications one of them being healthy water Healthier water I should say water is should be healthy healthier water so back in the early 1900s, they started this sort of research on hydrogen and what its possibilities are and that, and they made like the first electrolyzed water in like the 30s. They were making ionizers that you could use at home

to do things to your water. And some of this, it kind of gets mixed up because as you're looking at the history of hydrogen water, it's really easy to accidentally start reading about alkaline water and then read about water that is both alkaline but then had hydrogen, that's not possible, that doesn't make sense because we're going acidic versus,

we're going in different directions with the pH. And so, but you will find this all kind of mixed together. I think the idea is we can do stuff to water. Isn't that exciting? And then the water, and if you change, my understanding is, and I've never drank hydrogen water, is that it tastes slightly different. And so you could tell a difference.

And I think we are kind of predisposed as humans that if something has a stronger taste to it, we think it's doing something to us. That's well established in the show, I think. Yes, and so they started making these ionizers back in the 30s, and by the 50s, they were kind of popular to try to access or buy some of this water or have it in your own home even

for all of its healing effects. This water we have maximized to, not just to drink, but also like bathe in. It was very popular to bathe in these waters for the like all around healing effects. It was called Shin-Noro solution or senal liquid, which is still, you'll still see these terms used for when it sold from the different companies

who sell it in Japan. They were basically brought to the Japanese ministry of health at the time, and they applied to be like a medical device in the 60s. Like, I mean, this was very quickly legitimized. Like they were taking this very seriously in Japan. Yeah, and whereas I think here in the US, it is now much more of like a kind of a medicine adjacent,

popular medicine. That's the term we're supposed to use for stuff like this. There's popular medicine. What term do you want to use for it though? I'll get into the studies. Okay. Um, so, so they initially, I'll get into the studies.

So, so they initially they didn't get medical approval for the devices because it's really difficult I think with this process to produce something that is stable and stays that way kind of like we talked about like it just wants to do water if you yeah when, when you use an electric current to change the properties of water, it doesn't necessarily stay that way. Gotcha. So they added calcium lactate to it, and anyway, they were able to make an actual alkaline pH, a higher pH, that stabilized. And so because they could do something, these devices could generate

something that was actually different and that was believed to have. And a lot of the evidence I think is, again, like we talk about on the show a lot, just because something happens in a Petri dish doesn't mean it happens in real life. The idea that having these ions, these different could change the nature. A lot of this is theoretical, but anyway, it was granted recognition as a medical substance generator. All right, well, then that's a special one. And so initially, like, alkaline water got the biggest kind of endorsement,

and they said you could use it for, like, chronic diarrhea and indigestion, all kinds of stomach stuff basically. And then from that, an acidic water, hydrogen water was the next approved. And then eventually we see that like in Korea, they followed these. And so like there are other parts of the world where the idea that hydrogen water or alkaline water, either of these, could be healthier for you is well established and probably the kind of thing where if you said it, people would just sort of nod like, this is my assumption,

not having been part of that culture, people would say, well, yeah, I mean, like, we know that. In the same way that we say you should drink more water and everybody sort of nods like, yes, this is an accepted thing in our culture. None of us drink more water and everybody sort of nods like, yes, this is an accepted thing in our culture. Right. None of us drink enough water. Even though that, even though that isn't necessarily true, by the way, I think it's the same sort

of thing. In terms of being able to verify that this, these actually do the things they say they do. We don't necessarily have a lot of evidence for that. It seems like it would be really hard to test it because it seems so fragile, right? Like chemically fragile in a way where doing repeated testing in a way where you know that you're testing it

on the same formulation, the same concentration is not the right word, but the same, you know, chemical makeup. Exactly, because I think the problem is that if you have a bunch of test subjects in a lab and you're trying to see like, if I put these magnesium sticks in this water and turn it into hydrogen water, extra hydrogen in the water,

and then I have them drink it. And I mean, if you're going to do this with any degree of validity, you are going to create the hydrogen water and then test the hydrogen water to ensure it is what you say it is, right? You're going to have some sort of standard, okay, we created water with X hydrogen molecules in it, right? And then you're gonna give it to the test subjects

and then you're gonna, whatever your outcome you're looking for. Do they have more energy? Is their diarrhea better? I don't know what you're doing it for, but like. Whatever. Whatever. The problem is that when you replicate that in real life,

it's almost impossible. What you would have to do is create your hydrogen water, bottle it, put it on a shelf in a simulated like grocery store environment, right? Wait for some amount of time and then have people and then test it and then drink it, is what you need to do. Which is a much more difficult and expensive study to do

and it's easier in a lot of cases just to tell people it's better. What's easier, doing the research, improving it or coming up with a really clever marketing campaign where you just sell it to people? Because at the end of the day, if it's just water. Hey, listen, I will just say that marketing is not easy. Well, I'm not.

It takes a lot of work to come up with these great campaigns. Our marketers are out there doing the hard work. They may, no, I'm sorry, Sydney. Yeah, take a sip of your coffee. That's why I'm talking for a few seconds so you can drink some coffee. Cause it's early in the morning and sometimes in the study you have to talk for a long time. So then I talk sometimes so you can drink some coffee, because it's early in the morning, and sometimes in the study, you have to talk for a long time,

so then I talk sometimes, so you can drink coffee. So folks, if you seem here like, wow, Justin's really prattling on a little bit, it's because Sid wanted to drink some coffee. Our marketers are out there doing the hard work, creating commercials. It's a thankless job. Everybody complains about it.

Everybody says, during the Super Bowl, I only watch it for the commercials commercials as though they're so terrible. Our marketers are out there working day and night to try to sell us stuff and help us find the right things to buy. Help us make, look for the helpers, Mr. Rogers says, that help us make the good buying decisions. You know what I mean?

I appreciate him. Thank you to our heroic marketers. We get emails from all these science people. I want emails from people that come up with commercials that sell me new kinds of Doritos. That's what I want. Those are the heroes. I am not insinuating that marketing is easy.

I am saying that when it comes, and I am certainly not insinuating. Yes, I am certainly not saying that it is inexpensive. I am saying that dollar for dollar, it's more expensive and arduous to do, and time consuming, to do long-term, heavy duty, peer review, double blind control, all the things that we do to say if something real or not.

Especially when the most lucrative option is no. No, we didn't. No, we didn't. We don't have an answer. That's more lucrative to not know. When you're making something that isn't going to be a prescription pharmaceutical, why would you hold yourself to those standards

if you're just trying to sell it, depending on what your goal is? Now, if your goal is really, I mean, if you're pure of heart, I don't know. My point is- If you're able to pull the sword from the stone. There are a lot of devices that have met approval in Japan to make hydrogen water. The amount of hydrogen water they make is pretty variable. I thought it was interesting.

I read a lot about there are pretty strict regulations on how they can market it in Japan. Like it's not like everybody has bought into this and everybody's making all these wild claims on commercials and stuff and everybody's agreeing with it. They have to, I mean, it's similar to here. You can't just say like it'll cure cancer. You can't. And I also read that similar to the US, and this of course makes sense, just because something is really popular among the public

does not necessarily mean doctors agree with it. I don't think doctors in Japan are prescribing hydrogen water any more than doctors in the US are. Do you know what I mean? Just because I think what we're talking about, again, similar- Popular science. Popular medicine.

Similar to the idea that everyone in the US right now carries a water bottle and will tell you you need to drink more water. As a doctor, occasionally I might tell someone they need to drink more water, but I am not just giving everyone the advice all day long that they need to drink more water because sometimes you don't need to drink more water. Sometimes you've had plenty of water.

So I think it's the same thing. I don't think we should just assume, you know, I mean, just because it's widely accepted among the public because it's marketed well, something does not necessarily translate to it is prescribed by doctors. The thing is that I found a small study from 2011 that showed consuming whatever hydrogen-rich water is improve quality of life measures of patients undergoing radiotherapy for liver tumors. That's the only study I found, and this was very small,

and I would not, again, one study does not change our scientific understanding, and is was very small and I would not, again, one study does not change our scientific understanding and is a very specific case and I would not generalize it. Some of the claims they make, there's just no study for it. Like it will promote skin health. I can't find where anyone has studied that. So I don't even know, there's not even like a tiny study. It's like anecdotal.

I like to think that there's a bunch of, there's gotta be a contingent of Japanese Dr. Sidneys over there who are like, guys, you have to, this water's driving me crazy. It's just water, please. I would assume there are. I mean, I would assume, but the idea behind it is that hydrogen, those little hydrogen H2s

that are floating around are antioxidant. So they're gonna help antioxidize your body by binding with oxygen. Now, say it if I can just say, now I'm listening. And so it will, I mean, but then the claims from that are like, it's like any other antioxidant, right? It's like why they tell you to eat blueberries. They're going to detoxify you and improve your immune system and give you energy and promote organ health and like things that you can.

Why did you wait until the end of the episode to tell me all this great stuff? You know who wouldn't have made that mistake? A marketer. All I'm saying, they wouldn't have buried the lady with all this great benefits. I'm not marketing, I'm not marketing hydrogen water. What I'm saying is. I know Sydney buried the lady with all the straight benefits. I'm not marketing hydrogen water. What I'm saying is- Oh, I know, Sydney. I don't even want to buy it at this rate.

I have no way. I would not. It's more expensive than water and I have no- You put all the extra hydrogen in it. Well, I have no evidence that it really does any of these things. Hydrogen for free? Just because you can put some hydrogen molecules together with other molecules in a lab and then say look it did something I bet it's good in your body that doesn't

Mean that it has that same impact on the complex system. That is the human body It like one does not translate to the other. Okay. I don't have evidence for these claims I don't have a reason to think hydrogen water would hurt you, especially since it's not standardized. You may be buying hydrogen water that by the time you drink it has no extra hydrogen in it because it may have all diffused out. So, I mean, it's hard for me to say it could hurt you because it might just be water

that you're paying extra money for, but it hurts you in the sense that one, you're wasting your time and money. Two, you may be seeking this out instead of something that would actually address whatever issue you're having. And three, when people make claims of a miracle cure for everything that ails you,

that will make everything better in your body. Your problem is that you haven't been drinking hydrogen water. Whatever your problem is, it can be fixed by hydrogen water. It erodes our confidence in any sort of like scientific process to arrive at these solutions. And I don't mean your confidence in the American medical system,

because if your confidence in that is eroded, welcome to the club I mean, yes, of course But the scientific method is Sound is valid separate that out from the structure. We've built around health care There is a way to find answers if you truth can be known if you contort science Then it to suit your needs and it kind of devalues the whole public faith in the enterprise.

Exactly. So that is the deal with hydrogen water. I have no evidence to say you should drink hydrogen water. Maybe you even shouldn't. I don't know. Let me say this. I am not going to start drinking hydrogen water or alkaline water.

I am going to continue to try to consume an appropriate amount. Only drink beer. No. No, water. Water, right, got it. Regular old. Regular old glass of water.

As everyone on TikTok is fond of saying, I grew up drinking out of a garden hose right now. And so I'll just keep drinking water. That is gonna do it for us this week. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks to the taxpayers for using their song, Medicines is the intro and outro of our program. And thanks to you for listening, we sure appreciate it.

That's gonna do it for us for this week. Till next time, my name is Justin McElroy. And I'm Sydney McElroy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head.