Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Insomnia

Episode Date: September 23, 2014

Welcome to Sawbones, where Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband Justin McElroy take you on a whimsical tour of the dumb ways in which we've tried to fix people. This week: We can't sleep. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

Saabones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a doing that's lost it out. We were shot through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines that escalate my cop for the mouth Hello everybody and welcome to saw bone to mental tour of misguided medicine. I am in your co-host Justin McRoy and I'm Sydney McRoy. Sydney welcome to program Thank you for welcoming me to the base my program, too. I welcome our program. We just we've been on Parental leave for a while. That's true. That's true Like should we start making Chuck introduce yourself to or Hey, introduce yourself Chuck. Okay, that's about as good. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's not good. She's busy. She's eating right now. I'm exhausted. So tired. Yeah. So get this. Babies don't sleep much. Well, that's not true. Baby sleep a lot when you don't want them to.

If you ever said sleep like a baby, you should punch yourself in the face. It doesn't, I said on Twitter, my baby sleeps like a frat boy fighting a drunken blackout. Like, what? No, I'm not, I'm fine. That's really true. And she likes to puke in Rally a lot.

Yeah, she does puke in Rally, that's true. So, he'd eat, eat, eat, eat, and then I'll pick her up and she will look at me so lovingly and then just puke. And then instantly she's like, I'm hungry again. I'm hungry, I've freed my mom. You just saw my food come back out. You know it's not in there. So we're exhausted.

We haven't been sleeping, but we have a very good reason for that We there's a child and it makes noises these noises you can't actually stare at all noises Now there are a lot of people who can't sleep But they don't have a child that's causing that problem right they just can't sleep. They are, if, forgive me, using a medical term, that's usually your area, they're insomniacs. That's right. And we've had several people suggest us the topic of insomnia through emails and tweets and in person.

I don't know, a lot of people wanna hear about insomnia and it seems very appropriate right now. Yes. I don't know how much sense we'll be able to make because of our lack of sleep. But we will give it a go. Sidney, where does it come from? Like, well, it's in the very beginning of insomnia.

Where does this all start? Well, the term insomnia is a reference to the Roman God's psalmness, the God of sleep. He's the equivalent. You may know him better as hypnosis, the Roman God Somnis, the God of sleep. He's the equivalent. You may know him better as hypnos, the Greek God, you know, since you're so much more familiar with Greek mythology. I've always heard of Roman mythology.

I would tell people I'm a fan of whichever one is not being discussed then, so then I complete ignorance. It's sort of like the heavy-ever-rid Dante's Inferno, not an English version of that argument. Do you say that? Not an English. I'm glad you didn't say that to me when we were dating. It's true though. I have it.

Because the subject might not be here. But it's true. I have it. Yeah, I know. But, you know, pretentious. Yeah, I know, but it's like a, yeah, no, I get it. Just like Mimi halfway on this, please. It's been a while.

I'm a little rusty. Okay. You're going to have to work on the goofs a little bit. The goofs will come. Yeah, are they going to get better Just like me and me have fun on this place. It's been a while. I'm a little rusty. Okay. You're going to have to work on the goofs a little bit. The good news will come. Yeah. Are they going to get better? It's the episode goes on or is that? I have no guarantee it's the best you've got right now.

It's four hours. Did you just burn that right now? Do you really think? It's all taste inferno. Can I tell you something? Do you think that this environment is goof friendly? Do you think there's a goof positive environment you're creating right now?

Chuck looks very receptive. She doesn't do anything to show she didn't contribute at all. She's useless. She's making coos. Oh, everybody loves those. Goofing. In Tomnia is a pretty ancient disorder. People have had trouble sleeping as long as they've been sleeping. Yeah, that makes sense. That's all human history. And it used to be just that dirt to sleep on they only had dirt They are rock pillows and they made blankets out of grass and straw and they made pillows on a rocks And of course they had trouble sleeping they slipped on the dirt. I don't think they were rock pillows They slept on rock pillows in the dirt and the other thing made blankets out of their own hair

Yes hair blankets, but we won't get into that because this is about medical history Medical right okay It so insomnia is also well-crondicle not only because it's been around for so long, but because a Lot of famous people tend to have insomnia and like to talk about it. Yeah, or complain about it I don't know I guess Insomnia was actually mentioned in Gilgamesh. Really? Gilgamesh?

I have never read Gilgamesh in English. In English? I think, didn't they make us read some of that in school? You were in the smart kid classes, I don't know. Anyway, it's like the oldest... I was offering like five people you mean heaven and Hunger games that's that's one of I believe it's one of the oldest recorded texts I think I think that's one of the deals with Goga mesh, but they talk about Goga mesh himself dealing with insomnia as he becomes mortal and

There were a lot of writings that Insomnia had to do with that bridge between mortality and immortality. I guess suggesting that if you're immortal, you don't have to sleep. So and then as you become mortal, you just can't sleep because you're used to not sleeping. Okay. And if you're becoming mortal and you're sleeping for the first time ever, can you imagine how good that would feel?

Like, good or weird? Like think about you've never had to sleep before. But now, I mean, that's your first sleep ever. But you don't, but like you used to have full days. You used to be able to stay up and see Kirk Ferguson, but now what? Nothing. You're asleep.

You used to be up, you used to watch the Carson Daily Show. Now you can't see that anymore. That sounds exhausting. I know. Well, maybe, I guess. Well, maybe I guess. Yeah, it does refine a nice rhythm to the day, but it's just because we're used to. Are we becoming immortal? No.

No, quite the opposite. I'm dying everything. In summary, it was also associated with love sickness a lot in writings like that. That was the time you couldn't. So either you're becoming immortal or you're crushing on somebody pretty hard. Yeah. There's probably a few cosmic articles about it. like that, that was the time you couldn't. So either you're becoming immortal or you're crushing on somebody pretty hard. Yeah, one of the two. There's probably a few cosmic articles about it. There was also a lot throughout a lot of history

when insomnia was associated with fear, specifically a very practical fear. Lions. The crap would happen to you while you were sleeping. Yeah. That's exactly it, that you might get killed or somebody might steal all of your human hair blankets. Yeah, all of exactly it that you might get killed or somebody might steal all your stuff all of your human hair blankets. Yeah, all the top of it. So forever to we those

So but the biggest fear was not that somebody would steal your stuff while you were asleep But that the devil would steal your soul while you were sleeping. Okay A lot of people sleep though. How is he gonna decide who stole the steal while he's asleep? This is probably this sounds more like paranoid people. I bet normal every day a lot of people sleep though. How is he gonna decide who's still to steal? Well, he's asleep. This is probably, this sounds more like paranoid people. I bet normal everyday jows weren't worried about the devil stealing their soul whether or something.

No, a lot of people were sleeping was considered a vulnerable state when you know, you could be demons could take you over. You could be. Well, how would you you ever take your standing? Well, there were people who tried not to sleep. Or at least not to sleep for very long. It was considered holy to make your bed extremely uncomfortable.

It was like a mark of your faith because then you'd wake up a lot at night and it protected you from the devil. I bet that wasn't a stretch for most of like the old-timey period dating from My pillow is made of rock, but that's because I'm so faithful. I'm so faithful. I'm so holy. Are you happy with this old-timey Jesus? Look how uncomfortable my human hair bed is look at my back. It's crazy. It looks like a Z hair better. Look at my back. It's crazy. It looks like a Z. Z-shaped. I have a Z-shaped back. I'm in hell. Yeah, I'm in hell. Shakespeare wrote about insomnia in several different plays that's mentioned that people with like mental disturbances have insomnia. So I think like Lady Macbeth would be a good

example of that, right? Didn't she wander the halls? Awake talking to herself. Yeah, hamlet. A boy hamlet probably. Yeah, one sleeping so good. Yeah, hand lit. A boy hand lit probably. Yeah. Yeah, one sleeping very good. And that was a common thing too. So if you weren't possessed when you weren't sleeping, you may just be crazy. It was kind of the way people saw. It was also associated in 17th century in Europe with morality. So if you were a good person, you didn't sleep a lot. Sleeping was kind of like

an indulgence, like, you know, sex drugs, rock and roll and sleep. It's the Justin Macri story, except not so much with the sex or the drugs and only occasionally rock and roll, but definitely sleep. So if you wanted to show off what a good person you were, you would stay awake a lot. I guess that seems that seems to have flipped now, right? It seemed like all the good people these days get their get their eight hours in no questions asked. I still think that there's an association with people who sleep in though,

because that was a big part of it. Okay, that's true. If you were a good person, then you were like up at five a.m. Milk and the cows or whatever, but raising barns, raising barns. I'm sorry, I'm sure you were like up at 5 a.m. milk in the cows or whatever. But raising barns. Raising barns. I'm sorry, I'm sure you were doing that. A lot of that.

And I think that persists that, you know, we always think of like lazy people sleeping. But that's not real. I mean, it was not a good quality. And it's not necessarily insomnia, right? I mean, like, somebody, no, this is an insomnia, but people who had insomnia were seen as being more moral, being as better people, because they just naturally didn't sleep. Right. So they were happy with it.

They got to bless them with a, you know, lack of need for sleep. How do you combat it back in those times? There's no ambient. No, there was no ambient. There were, there have been a lot of different cures for insomnia. So if we go, all the way back to the Egyptians, I found that you could write the name of the spirit who was responsible for insomnia, but I could not actually find the name of this spirit. Okay. Lost to history. actually find the name of this spirit lost to history. As far as I know. Like Prince. Like the artist probably knows the spirit known as the one within Sonia.

That one. You could write it on a laurel leaf and put it under your mattress or pillow and then you're good. I wouldn't recommend that. No, I don't think that will help. But that was better than in the middle ages when they recommended that you just drink some gall from a castrated bore. No, I'm good on that front too.

I think that it will probably probably give me indigestion. That's always a problem with me within Tomia, because I have trouble sleeping sometimes and you know how sometimes you get it and that you're like, oh, I should go take a thumbs, but I'm already in bed. That's probably the worst thing that ever happens to me. Yeah, that's the worst thing that ever happened. It's the worst thing. I'm pretty good there, my girlfriend.

Yeah, things are going well. But don't worry, you could mix the castrated boregall with some herbs for flavor. Okay, yeah, put that on a nice skirt snake. Mm-hmm, no. No. Cast iron skillet. You could always try instead rubbing some doormouse fat on the bottom of your feet.

Dormass fat gross. Yeah, I don't know. Do you know how to be lazy? I mean, could you know would you know a dormouse on site? Like if you saw a mouse would you be like not a dormouse? I don't know. Is it just like a really tiny mouse, like a shrew kind of? I don't, is a shrew a mouth a mouth? Shrews in the mouth's family. I don't know. I don't know anything about animals. It's certainly not.

You're, you're ever been sitting in a lot of this. I just wanted to. I didn't know if a dormouse was a specific breed of mouth. We should change the subject of how they show too. Marital tour of misguide medicine and definitely, totally, definitely nothing about animals. Oh, please, oh please. Don't listen to me.

We know less than our baby daughter about animals. When I think of a doormouse, I think of the mice on Cinderella. Oh, I was gonna say, how else in Wonderland, but yeah. Oh, well, yeah, there's that. That actually is a doormouse. Yeah, I think of Gus on Cinderella. The one with the member he's carrying is that cheese.

So I take Gus and I rub his fat little belly on my feet and Gus, like, what are you doing? And I say, I can't sleep. And he's like, I'm not a dormouse. Do you want some cheese? Have you been listening to sobones? I'm not a dormouse. That's ridiculous.

If you didn't want to do that, or you don't have a dormouse, I don't. If Gus isn't visiting you tonight You could just lather your head with hard yellow soap I wonder if if times get really tight as a dormouse you sell yourself into dormouse prostitution One things got real bad and had let a sleeping man Rumbly tummy ice feet. That was the lowestbett. I think it's a trouble that you assume that rubbing door mouse fat,

that the way we're supposed to interpret that, is that they took the tummy of a door mouse and just rubbed it on your feet and then let it scurry away. I like that interpretation. Maybe this is what it almost certainly actually means. I think that maybe what's happening here is you are so

tired from chasing a tiny mouse. But you fall asleep. Come back here you try to sleep. I'm trying not to laugh too hard because Charlie has fallen asleep. Well you you picked the wrong husband. Maybe you didn't hear earlier some of my jokes about thought things in front of you. Anyway, so what I was saying is you could just take a bar of hard yellow soap, lather your head in it, leave it in all night and do that again every night for two weeks. Okay. On it.

Which is better than the door mouse thing. Certainly. No argument there. In the 19th century, there were a lot of theories that it had to do, especially at the turn of the century, going into the 20th, that it had to do with blood flow, because everything had to do with blood flow then. We're talking about prime leaching time. So you could take a wet rag and tie it around your wrist,

because they knew that that was the side of your radial pulse, so they thought that that would do something to slow blood flow and put you to sleep. There was a theory that it was due to too much blood in the head, so you would prop your head up on pillows, or that insomnia could be the result of a lack of blood to your head, so you prop your feet up on pillows. None of that is accurate, I'm assuming. Don't prop both up on pillows, I don't know all the blood pools in your midsection in your butt swells up in your butt butt blood in in Japan one

Cure was C slug in trails. Mm-hmm. I don't even know how you get those. I guess you get a C slug. First of all, yeah track that down in early in the early colonies you could try a raw onion To what just eat it just eat you could try raw onion. To what, just eat it. Just eat it, eat raw onion. I don't know why. That would just, I think that would give you indigestion. I think that would cause problems.

Absolutely, no questions. That would make things definitely, definitely worse. Nobody wants to sleep with you after that. No, but you have that going for you. You'll have your peace. In France, they would try fried lettuce. I've never even heard of that happening as a thing. I guess fried kale is a thing.

Fried kale is a thing. So I guess you could fry lettuce. That just seems to feed the purpose. That shocks me about the French. They seem so much more sophisticated than to fry lettuce. Yeah. That totally sounds like something we would do here. I do love their butter though.

They love their butter though. Maybe I can fry it. What if I just took the salad and fried it? I can't sleep. I'm going to beer batter this salad. Beer batter this salad. No, no, no. Then I'm going to fry it.

I'm going to eat it. I'm going to take this kuton and fry it as you count. If you read different accounts, different places throughout time and space, time and the world, milk comes up again and again, and it was usually mixed with something, it could be something herbal. Warm milk is kind of an older thing, and that's not a new cure.

People still say that, but with elderberry blossoms and iris was a popular concoction. You could try a time, chamomile, which people still drink chamomile tea, hops, so maybe just have a beer. That's legit. chamomile has some calming chemicals in there. Valerian, which could help you calm down

and catnip, actually. So lots of different herbal cures that popped up throughout history. And a lot of those are still in use today. And I'm not saying that necessarily all of them work, but they're still touted for that. Plenty, of course, had something to say about it. Hit me.

Now, Plenty did recognize that poppies would work, and this was not, he was not revolutionary. A lot of people are already using poppies at the time for lack of sleep, and of course, that makes sense, you know, opium. He also claimed the word poppies came from, and I think we mentioned this before, the infant food pap. We talked about that on the, on the, on the opium episode. Or was it on the opium it? Well, whatever. I'll check the wiki. It was some kind of infant food mixture that they would make with like

bread soaked in water and stuff like that and they thought and he thought that word Pat led to Pappover, which is the word for poppies the root word anyway, and that was because poppies were often given to infants in their pap to law them to sleep. Yeah, You know, so do we want to try that later? I, at this point, it's got to beat the nightglobbin's lipiner. Disclaimer, we're not actually giving our infant nightglobbin. No, we're just staring at her and praying. No, please leave. Why are your eyes so open? They're so open.

They're so open and white. They're so open. If you wanna try a magic, a magic cure, yes. Are you kidding me? Is that a trick question? There's an amulet. There's a stone that is particularly effective in this arena. Luffy sluzzly.

Okay. It is a blue stone. I know that from Minecraft. Yes, youly. Okay. It is a blue stone. I know that from Minecraft. Yes, you can much. Thank you for your games. In addition to helping you sleep, it is also considered the stone of universal truth and friendship.

Okay. It enhances your psychic ability and it energizes your throat chakra. No, it doesn't. I literally thought it was made up when I first encountered it in Minecraft. I thought it was a made up thing like redstone. I absolutely did too, but no, it's real. And it has magical powers or so the the website on healing amulets that I read.

It has magical powers. So if you are having trouble with your throat chakra or sleep, try that pretty blue stone. You mentioned earlier in the program that some well-known folks have struggled with insomnia. Can you hit me a few names? Well, Justin, it's been a while, so you may not remember how this works, but before we can go on any further, I'm gonna need you to visit our billing department. All right, let's go. The medicines, the medicines, the ask you lift my car before the mouth.

Who said, famous people, I'm ready. Okay, well, first of all, you haven't heard of this guy, but his name is Al Herpan. Al Herpan. Al Herpan, and I mention him. It sounds like a real soldier type. Because he was famous for his insomnia. Oh, yeah.

He claims to be the man who never slept. He said that his mother had some kind of accident while she was pregnant right before she delivered him. And it resulted in him never sleeping his entire life. He lived to his 90s. He said that at night, he would just sit in a rocking chair and rest. Oh, I bet it's family debated over what room he was going to do that in. Not sleeping. That's weird. All are you in here? You have to say something.

I have to know you're in here. He just going to the kitchen. Now, now he claimed to not have any health effects from the lack of sleeping, which is how would he know we keep him from. How would he know we keep him from. How would he know we keep him from. Yes, no, we're on there. That kind of insomnia. Well, that's true.

That's true. He doesn't know. And there were a handful of other people who have that kind of problem, but I thought that was interesting. The man who never slept. Now, let's talk about real famous people. Okay. Churchill.

So, Churchill was in famous insomniacac and he had his own cure for it. He slept in two twin beds and he would switch between one and the other every time he woke up. I love that. That's like the extreme version of cool side of the pillow except it's cool side of the bed. It's funny. The other bed. It's funny that you mentioned that because Benjamin Franklin was another famous insomniac who believed very strongly that heat was the cause of insomnia, too much heat in the body. And so at night, he would get up over and over again.

Every time he had trouble sleeping, he would just throw up in all the windows and doors and let his room get icy cold. You know, I don't think that's crazy. Most of the time when I'm having trouble sleeping, I feel really hot. Like I feel like I can feel all my skin simultaneously. And it's very warm.

You can feel all your skin. I can feel all my skin touching everything in the world. Well, it is true that sleeping in a cooler room can help with good quality. That doesn't stop you from complaining about, though, every single night of my life. Okay, you make our room an ice palace. Anybody else, Sydney?

Dickens. Sydney calls me Elsa. Yes, I do. I call them Elsa at night, because he sleeps in an ice palace. Anybody else Sydney? Dickens. Sydney calls me Elsa. Yes, I do. I call them Elsa at night because he sleeps in an ice palace. Okay. And poor Chuck and I are freezing. Yeah. Dickens was a famous insomniac. He believed that you needed to sleep in a bed pointing north in order to help combat insomnia. Okay, don't believe that. So he would use a compass. What he would actually travel with one just to ensure that he could always position his bed, pointing north. And he would sleep in the exact center of his bed.

He would actually lay down in the middle of his bed and then hold his arms out to the side until he was certain he was right in the middle. The single life. He, this didn't work very well. So he spent a lot of nights just taking walks around London, which is actually probably a good thing for all of us. Yeah, actually picked up with his ideas. Mm-hmm. Exactly. His stories, you will, his tales. He wasn't the only one. Napoleon, Edison, Alexander de Moss, they were all in Somniaks who just accepted it, didn't really do anything to try to cure it and

put that time to good use. Van Gogh also an insomniac. Not a surprise there. No. A lot of things going on. And he would try to put himself to sleep by soaking his pillow and his mattress in camphor to try to knock him out at night. What's camphor?

and Camphor to try to knock him out at night. What's Camphor? Camphor is this waxy substance made from probably dried rosemary leaves, is where it's found. And it can put you to sleep. Oh, okay. Well, or at least he hoped it could. I hope it works sometimes. That kid has been eating for like 25 minutes. Yeah.

She's gonna pop. I'm really worried about her. Oh, she's not gonna pop. She's just probably gonna puke on me later. Fantastic. Or maybe you. It's possibly me. You never know.

It's impossible to say. Only she knows for sure. WC Fields was an insomniac and could only fall asleep if under an umbrella that had water falling on He was like a wooden him what's he with the busy fields? So I guess he hired somebody is my guess. Yeah, see I want to sleep underneath the giant mushroom Kind of be a big toad stole see yeah Lincoln was famously an insomniac who was known for taking his midnight walks as a result.

Bill Clinton and insomniac, although after his heart attack he actually made an effort to start trying to fix the insomniac. He took advantage of it so that he could do more stuff, but then after his heart attack he decided to take better care of himself. Marilyn Monroe had insomniac, which it probably contributed to her eventual overdose. Madonna is an insomniac and Margaret Thatcher was an insomniac, said that it didn't bother her because sleep is for whims. So if I actually want to treat it, said, what do I do?

What are my options? So there are lots of medications throughout history that have been used to treat insomnia. There are certainly a lot today. The oldest drug that was used is definitely poppies or opium. Poppies. The Greeks, the Egyptians, everybody used opium. Probably not an appropriate use, I would say.

Barbiturates were used. Again, Marilyn Monroe, probably a lot of people think of. We don't use those nowadays. Alcohol was used for a while and a lot of different sleep serums. Alcohol is not a good idea. It actually disrupts your sleep cycles. And even though it might knock you out at first, it will lead to low-quality sleep.

Opiaids are an inappropriate thing that was used marijuana. Became popular because of Queen Victoria. Used it for menstrual cramps, so that was used for a while. And then finally we invented the benzodiazepines things like volume. And those became popular in nowadays of course we've got lots of hypnotics. The ambience, lunettes, synodic. Hypnotics? What's this called? Yeah. I've never heard that terminology before.

Now I will tell you, that works for me. Just a little while. That stuff is gross. It's not good. I don't like that stuff. Now I will tell you, none of these drugs actually work to cure insomnia. Uh-oh. A lot of them, even if they temporarily knock you out

or not doing anything to fix the problem of lack of sleep that you're having difficulty sleeping. The only thing that's been proven to really fix it is cognitive behavioral therapy. If it is a psychological origin, I should say. Are there physical? Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of different, it depends on behavioral things.

Are you smoking or you're drinking a lot of caffeine or you're drinking a lot of alcohol or you're drinking a lot alcohol? It can be your sleep behavior. Do you try to watch TV at night? That's not good lack of exercise or it could be something underlying depression anxiety There are a million different causes and if you're suffering from insomnia instead of buying a sleeping pill I would definitely talk to a doctor about it But I mean it can't it can't kill you.

It's a good news, right? Well, that's not true. I don't know. Now, for the most part, the insomnia that we would have every once in a while, kind of like, you know, everybody has a headache every once in a while. You may suffer from some acute insomnia due to life circumstances. So for that kind of acute insomnia that we may have from time to time, don't worry about it. It's probably not going to last very long. Even if you have chronic insomnia,

where you only get a few hours of sleep at night, this is still not what I'm talking about. I mean, worry about it in the sense that like it sucks. So make every effort you can to address it, but don't lose sleep ever. But when we're talking about people dying from insomnia, we're really talking about fatal familial insomnia. Oh, so you can die about fatal familial insomnia. Oh, so you can die from it? Yes. Excellent.

It's a very rare disorder. It's a prion disorder. It's like a malformed protein in your brain. If you've heard of prions before, it's because of mad cow disease. This has nothing to do with mad cow disease, but there you go. Okay. It exists in about 25 different families worldwide. So it's extremely rare.

You don't. You are born with it. It doesn't start becoming symptomatic to a middle age. And unfortunately, the lifespan after that is about 18 months. You just slowly get less and less sleep until you can't sleep at all, and then you're hallucinating, and you kind of stay in this like pre-sleep state until eventually you can. Does that call into question how herping story? Well, that is a problem.

And that's why these cases of people who say that they've never slept, a lot of them obviously weren't well documented under research. Right. Some other things, just interesting facts about insomnia, animals can get insomnia, bugs can suffer from insomnia. Researchers have spent lots of time breeding flies that specifically have insomnia for whatever reason.

I mentioned earlier that- It's kind of messed up, scientists, by the way. If you're lying, embed it and I unable to sleep because you've done something very cruel, you have, and that's a good impulse. Lean into it. As I mentioned before, a lot of people think that love sickness can cause insomnia. It doesn't.

I don't worry about that. And I thought this was interesting. There's something called sleep concert. So if you're really desperate and you're an insomniac, check out a sleep concert. What is a sleep concert? So you can still go to these, I don't think there are many in the US, but you can still find them in Japan. They were popularized by Robert Rich in the US. This is back in the 80s. And he was an ambient musician. He is an ambient musician. And ambient music. Yeah, he makes ambient music. Ambient. Not ambient, the sleep medicine. Right. Ambient musician.

So he makes really great ambient music. There's nothing that puts me at ease and prepares me to shift on to dream land like a room full of people who haven't slept for a while. That's excellent. I'm at peace. He would put on these all night concerts. And a lot of it had to do with, he kind of cooked this idea up in the 70s so I had to do with like altered states and you know

You know groovy stuff. Yeah, and you would go to this concert and basically you're supposed to chill out and sleep and you laugh But you would totally check that music. You're gonna look up this guy's music. Yeah, you are One thing I should say is as I mentioned nowadays. We've got lots of drugs out there. I would talk to a doctor first. I wouldn't if you don't have to I would not use medication. I would recommend against it and try sleep hygiene. You know what that means? Getting into a rhythm, making sure the room's a good state. Yeah, a full dark room. Don't watch TV and bed. Don't do anything in bed other than sleep and have sex. Yeah, a whole dark room. Don't watch TV and bet. Don't do anything in bed other than sleep and have sex.

Okay. And cut out the cigarettes and the caffeine and the booze. Booze? Yeah. I want to say thank you to people who shipped us gifts, especially pertaining to our new baby, Charlie. We had a beautiful blanket from Erica that she shipped us that is just gorgeous.

Hannah also sent us some candy and some booties that she made. And a really lovely letter for Chuck John Bailey sent us a Pliny One Z, which is really super cute. It says half pint on the back, which is kind of funny, because it's for the beer plenty of the other beer. Aaron made us a hat with little whales on it, which is beautiful. And Ann sent us some postcards from the

Pothacary Museum in her area in a book that she bought there. Yeah, very cool stuff. Thank you to everybody who did that. If you have the urge to send us something at PO Box 54 on each one's 1525706, we don't expect you to. This is as far as our contract between each other goes. We just ask for a half hour of your time, and in exchange, we offer you the world. Yeah, but thank you so much, especially, when you take time to make something for Chuck,

that really means a lot to us. And we will make sure as she wears these items to get pictures out on Twitter. No, not Twitter. I don't want my big, big amount of Twitter. We'll open them on the saw bones page. I'll say, we'll do that. That's on Facebook, by the way,

to search for saw bones. You can go join up there and talk about the show or you can do that at the maximum fun forum. So that's the maximum fun.org. You can see, maximum fun is a podcast network that we are a part of together with other great programs like stop podcasting yourself my brother my brother in me Oh, no, I said my brother my brother in me. I'm not supposed to took my part. Let me try again Let me try again pretend it's a stop podcasting yourself the goose down Jordan Jesse go one bad mother my brother my brother in

I thank you so much here so many others. Uh-oh, that means that it's time for us to go. Please go subscribe to us on iTunes, give us a review. Uh, and so all the other things that you do to promote people that you like, come to our Facebook group, come to the maximum fund of our reforms, and thanks again to Harry's and thank you to you so much for the same fair program. Until next Tuesday, I'm Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy. And it's always don't draw a hole in your head. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture, Artistone Listener Supported