Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Iridology

Episode Date: October 18, 2022

The eyes are the windows to the soul, but could they also be the windows to all the body's ailments? Dr. Sydnee and Justin discuss iridology, the idea that changes in the eye color could possibly indicate different diseases and conditions – and perhaps even personality traits – although there is very little evidence that any of this is scientifically sound.Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers https://taxpayers.bandcamp.com/ 

Saw bones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, talk is about books. One, two, one'm that isn't, the escalant macaque for the mouth. Wow. Hello everybody, welcome to Salabones,

Mayor Lidur of Miscite at Medicine. I'm a co-host Justin McElroy. And I'm Sydney McElroy. What was that chair flap there? The chair flap in the arms of the chair. That usually means it's time to go. That's what you do when it's time to get going. What do you mean when it's time to get going?

That's the signal. Like when we're out of the house and I'm signaling time to return to the house, everyone, I'm losing strength. This is a universal, well, not universal. This is a cult, there are other people who do this. This is some subsection of culture that does this like,

it's either like a slapping the arms of the chair or you do the knee slap, well, and you say, well, well, and that means either I gotta go or you need to wait. That's weird, that, well, and that means either I got to go or you need to wait. That's weird. That's weird. It's time for you to offer like, oh, I guess I better get going. That's what that's the expected reply.

Well, and then the other person says, well, I better get going. That's actually weird because a lot of times I'll do that and you'll act like you don't know that I'm ready to leave. So it's weird. I know. Oh, you know, I'm ignoring it because I don't want to leave. Oh, perfect. Hey, Sid, what's on the, what's on the docket today on the sob, the sob, the sob, the docket?

I already told you last week. So I'm just terribly disappointed that you've forgotten. I know. I know. I'm setting people up. I know. Last week we covered draws and his many forays in de pseudoscience. And one of those was erodology.

And I gave you a little snippet, a little tidbit of the history of erodology. And then I thought, well, let's do a whole show on that. Sounds fascinating. So that is what I'm thinking, no, I don't wanna thank draws for anything. Thank me for- Thank you.

Thank you. For dressing it to me. Thank Sydney of the past. Usually Sydney of the past is doing no favors for Sydney of the future. But it's one time. So I mentioned, and let me say that with a lot of these alternative medicine practices, it is common for there to be this claim of ancient roots, right? Like, this is something that's been practiced for thousands and thousands of years.

You can't always find evidence of that. Of Iridology. Or just the evidence of the practice of being practiced for thousands of years. Yes, exactly. Like, I don't know that the erudology is certainly as we understand it today, that there's any ancient roots to that practice because it involves such an intense inspection of the iris and modern tools make that a lot easier.

It would have been hard to examine the iris to the level of, you know, specificity that we can. Sometimes you see this though in, in, um, complementary alternative homeopathic medicine, where it's building on an ancient concept with modern technology. As if to say, like, we have the best of both worlds. Like, this was a great idea, but now we really have the technology to get in there and look at that iron.

Well, and they're really like, so they talk about the ancient Egyptians had the silver engrave. What do you do in silver engrave? I don't know, silver. Silver plating? Plate, thanks. What are you doing? I don't know.

They have pictures of the iron silver. Okay. Plating, thanks. When it's, I don't know, like they have pictures of the eye and silver. Okay. It's like silver art. Yeah. Anyway, as like, so see they really got eyes that eyes are important. Which like you could, you can think eyes are important

and not believe in your ideology, I think. But like, Yeah, I'm a big fan. There's that. And then there's like, and then there's ancient Tibetan medicine, which talks about how you can see liver disease in the eye. And it's like, well, I mean, okay,

there's some, like you can see jaundice. So. Yes. But that's not your ideology. So I don't have any. You see, um, what's it? What's the, like, red lines in the eye for when you've been like drinking or stuff like that.

You know? Yeah, this is like dilated blood vessel. So, dilated blood vessel. Yeah, well, there's lots of stuff you can, this is true. There's lots of stuff that you can see in the eye that aren't iridology, right? Like, I'm not gonna sit here and say like,

we don't use the eye as a diagnostic tool. First of all, there can be things wrong with your eye. So like we have doctors who... You look inside the eye. To eyes, that's their thing. You know that little light that they're looking at where they look through the hole, they're looking inside your eyeball, folks.

Do you know this? I found this out when sitting in medical school. They're looking right inside there. That's why. That's the back. Right, right, right, I saw the wild. Say, hey doc, let me spin that around you and take a look in your papers while you got that out real quick

because it is wild in there, folks. It is wild. But that's, I mean, we have doctors devoted to this. We have optometrist and we have ophthalmologists and they know all about the eye and can tell you all things that are wrong with your eye. And then of course, there are signs of systemic diseases that we can also see in the eye.

If you have high blood pressure for a long time, we can see changes in your eye. If you do have liver disease, obviously we can see changes. And then there are some things that are like classic, like they use them on house. So you know it's like, oh, that's a thing in medicine because we use it on an episode of house. Like you see the gold rings in the eye

and you're like copper, that's Wilson's disease. Like, you know, I mean like... And then Wilson's like, I'm excused. Well, not that Wilson, it's a different Wilson. The volleyball. The volleyball. Not the... And you know, so there are all kinds of things, like we can look at the size of your pupils and say like, hmm, you've been exposed to a certain kind of toxin. So there are lots of things we can tell from looking at your eyes. By the way, Wilson, they picked that because it sounds like Watson. Wow. How's your mind? Is it blown? Because I think so. Also, House, it's just like,

it's just like that one is lazy. That one is always easy. It is, homes, it's like that, but there's just one. And it's more of a building. It's just house. It's a house, just a house. And then you can build on that and be like apartment. A part, what like Jeff Goldblum is, apartment's.com, man.

Hi, I'm Jeff apartment. Well, I'm a set of Sherlock Holmes and then Gregory House. I don't know what the next iteration is, but I'm just loose associating with House. My name's Kirk Tent. I'm Kirk Tent. I'm gonna solve your wild animal mystery,

whatever's loose in here, Kirk Tent is gonna get it out. I would totally watch that. I would watch Kirk Tent. I would watch Kirk Tent. Make that show, please, it's TM. So anyway, this is not what erudology is, though. None of this that I'm talking about is erudology. These are all like real things.

We wasted a lot of time. Well, I'm just saying that because to say like, well, of course you can tell things about a person's health from their eyes. Well, yeah, obviously we can. But that's so erudology that we are talking about starts really in the 1800s. There was, and I mentioned this on the draws episode, there was this Hungarian physician Ignos Pesli, who by the way was also a lover of homeopathy. And you see this with erodology,

a lot of the practitioners of erodology, like a lot of other alternative medicines, like sort of overlap. They like a lot of them. So anyway, Pesli broke the leg of an owl when he was a child, like accidentally. How did he break an owl's leg? I don't know.

I don't have that information. I don't know anything about this. But the owl's leg was broken as the point. The owl did survive because he went on to notice changes in the eye of the owl over time. So obviously the owl was okay. How else would he have noticed these changes? And again, like I mentioned, I don't know if this story is really how he got interested. This is supposedly his origin story. He looked in the eye of this owl and he noticed a dark spot developed after it broke its leg and it healed.

And he thought, well, there must be a connection. There must be more we can learn about health because there's a change in the eye from a broken leg. In a nail. In a nail. There, as often happens around the same time, there was another physician who had sort of his own like accidental zone is his own twisted skewed view on this

bring a little bit wouldn't be wild if I was about to get the flu can tell it in their eyes wouldn't it Wouldn't it be wild if it was also bird related or two, if it was another owl with a broken leg? It was like two different doctors broke Owl's legs. And then, now. It's the same owl and he's just traveling around beating their muse. No, he did not have any, there was nothing avian about his discovery.

So, Niels Lilljakwist was a Swedish priest healer doctor. Okay, all around. I don't know. I don't know, I don't know his schooling. The thing is he loved Al's. Yeah. I believe the other guy did go to medical school of some sort.

I don't know about, Neel's may have to, you know what I'm not gonna say, did I, I will tell you that this is, in some branches of alternative medicine when you get into sort of like the founders and fathers and I know that's gendered, but they're often men.

I mean, there can be what? They're often men. But when you get into those stories, like you'll find this really intense, like everything about them, this is one where like, I'm not finding a lot of easy giant tomes written and tribute to these particular people.

This is a bit more of a, this sounds like one where even the true believers, maybe it gets a little weird. You start to lose a little weird. You start to raise a little bit of a broken-in-how aerodology stuff. Yeah, which is why I found as many mentions where they're like, maybe that's not true.

But either way, he definitely was into this. So he was treated with some medications. It was not me true, but that's not really mattered to us, that was. Well, I always like to preface that, that there are lots of stories in this area that are somewhat apocryphal. But then when the whole practice isn't based on science,

it's like, yeah, we're all open to. So anyway, he was treated with some medications, quinine and an iodine, and then he noticed that his eyes changed colors. According to him, his eyes were bluish and then after he took these medicines, they were greenish with reddish spots. Probably not. I probably not.

I looked into that because, you know, we don't, in terms of just straight, quinoine or straight iodine, we definitely use these things in medicine like derivatives of them and, you know, medicines made including them and things. These are still medicinally relevant medicines, but I would imagine we're talking about, you know, the 1800s, the doses and the methods by which he was taking these would not be the same as today, right? Like, he would not be taking the same sorts of substances or using them the same way or with the same caution or monitoring. And iodine particularly, you have to be very careful with. But anyway, like, is it like back then, if you just took these things straight up, would you see changes in

eye color? From what I could find with quinine, I know, with iodine, it does like, if you do a fundoscopic exam, meaning they're looking in your eye, when they take the up thalmascup and look in your eye. If you're looking, you can see changes there related to iodine. Like if somebody is taking a lot of iodine, you can see some changes there. And so I don't think it's wild to pause it that if you're taking that unmonitor, you may see some sort of difference. I don't know about this blue to green with red spots stuff. That seems like a lot. And then some of the, I

couldn't, because I also found that there was this whole other area of the internet where people were suggesting that you do this intentionally to lighten the color of your eye. Which is, yes, problematic for a variety of reasons. And also still, I couldn't tell that there was any truth to that. That also seemed fake. So, the point is, I do not believe that taking iodine and quinine would turn your blue eyes green and red. Okay.

There you go. That is my medical opinion. Please do not try it Please do not take these substances On your own unregulated please don't need us. Please don't do that I Saw one source that tried to link his story to vaccines There was one mentioned where they were like he had a vaccine and then he took quite nine and iodine and then his eyes changed colors Do the math but and like there was a smallpox vaccination around But, and like, there was a smallpox vaccination

around at this point. Like, so there was a vaccine to get. I have no, not even his stories talk about that. So I don't know where that, that was just sort of like, I think people who were in alternative medicines and also hate vaccines were like, what's the vaccine into that story? Nobody knows.

It's really hard to research these people. They bought the Alstuff which is just so it sticks. So anyway, both of these guys notice changes in the eye, one in an owl, one in a human. They seem to correlate with other things, one a broken leg, one with taking certain medicines. And so they embark on their own individual investigations of the iris, basically by looking at the eyes of a lot of people.

That was kind of like the, that's the methodology of this. So I see this connection maybe, I'm going to examine the eyes of as many people as I can and take a detailed health history and find connections, you know. Yes. So they both did this and drawing lots and lots of pictures by the way you can look up. I mean so many diagrams of irises with like detailed like clock face drawings for the different parts of the iris, you know, because it's a circle. It's clear for people that may not like what it when you say the iris what parts of the

eyes. I'm talking about the pigmented part of your eye. Okay. The black parts the pupil. about the pigmented part of your eye. Okay. Um, so the black parts, the pupil, and it's the iris. Yes. And then no one, they have not yet come up with the name for the white part. You'll never know. Do you know? Well, there's the cornea and the sclera.

Yeah, but the white jelly part, there's a lot of name for that. Well, there's, there's the, there's the vitreous humor in the aqueous humor and the, there's lots of parts of the eye. The whole iris white part. and the there's lots of parts of the IRIS white part. Well, there's lots of parts of the IRIS white. You're talking about the cornea and the sclera. I don't. The please. The sleepers. The white part. There's the part where sleep boogers are made. There's the white part. There's the iris and the people. The import part is the colored parts. The iris. The lids. Sorry, forgot. Yeah, the lids. The lids. The lids.

Oh, and for me, the dwindle. That's in mind. This is not in every box. But if you look at me, you see there's something special. Yeah, so unique. That's just the, yeah, anyway. To a bottle. OK.

Let's get back to the iris. That's the colored part. So anyway, they both start looking at these irises and they're drawing these pictures and guides. Pezly publishes discoveries in the realms of nature and the art of healing, which included a chart of the iris and all of the different parts that it connected to in the body in 1880. That's when that work comes out.

In the same period, Lil' Jacquist is working on his own account. First, he publishes just a short paper that's titled, Kwainine and Iodine change the color of the iris. I formerly had blue eyes. They are now a greenish color with reddish spots. That's the yellow that's all that I tell, like, can you do it over time? Kwainine and Iodine change the color of thedish spots. That's the y'all, that's all that I tell likes that can you do it over time. Quine nine and I, Dine, change the color of the iris. I formerly had blue eyes there. Now a greenish

color with reddish spots. That's a quite a book spine. Quite a book spine. Yes. There. And then he goes on to actually publish like his account of all the other eyes that he examined in 1890 with like a ton of pictures. I looked through this a ton of pictures and diagrams of the iris. And then in 1916, his like the diagnostics for the diagnosis from the eye, erudology, his big tone in 1916. So and of course, when you put these great works of science and medicine out into the world, you become the giant on which others must stand.

Exactly. So others will build upon this and grow this field in directions you have not yet predicted. What? But before we talk about that, we've got to stop by the billing department. Let's go. The medicines, the medicines that ask you let my God for the mount. Her Majesty served Great Britain and the Commonwealth, loyally, for over 70 years.

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watching adaptation, an adaptation of her own work, and comedian Harry Contabolu on why Harold and Kumar was a depressingly important movie for Southeast Asians. So join me every Thursday for the Bealing Scene podcast here on Maximum Fun. It's funny to think that someone could read quinine and iodine change the color of the iris. I formerly had blue eyes there now greenish color with reddish spots and think there's still more to do here. There's still more meat on the bone, but you're telling me that's what happened.

We figured it out. Well, part of what I imagine the issue was moving forward, like if you're going to build this into a new field of medicine and science, you need something that's easy. Like I was looking through all of these diagrams and charts of irises. And I imagine it was difficult to apply that. Like, okay, I see, I would have to, every time I would see an eye, I would have to flip through page upon page upon page. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. To figure out all the different things about,

it would take a long time. Every eye is different. That's why they use eye scanners as security, you know what I mean? Yes, so it would be a very difficult thing to put into practice. So what you needed was somebody to put together a universal chart that would become your dominant chart. Yes, you could really use. Take it out of the dark ages and really modernize it. like a universal chart that would become like your dominant chart. Yes.

You can really use it. Take it out of the dark ages and really modernize it. That's where Dr. Bernard Jensen comes in. He was already sort of this natural healing enthusiast. So he has a story and a lot of people, there's actually another person we're going to talk about who has a similar story, where he had his own sort of health challenge when he was younger. And he found that, you know, modern medicine just couldn't, it just didn't do it. Like he could not find any solutions among actual medical doctors. And so he turned to natural alternative, nutritional, holistic. I always hate

when holistic, the word holistic gets taken away from me. It's great word. Yeah. It's a great word. It's so useful. Well, and I like to think that the kind of medicine I practice is holistic. I understand that it's more than just the wound or injury in front of me. I understand that there's a whole human who has a variety of questions and concerns and barriers they face and problems they need to work through.

And like, I understand that. And I feel like the word holistic has been taken from those of us who, you know, practice. I don't know. I think of it as just medicine, but I guess. Just alipathy, men. Yeah, or osteopathic medicine. They're in the same boat. But like, it's been taken from us, and holistic has to include,

but also like, do you take into account all of these things that have never been proven to work but might work? And it's like, well, no, I don't take those into account. I take the whole person into account. And I don't know why the whole person has to include things that might. Suda science. Things that don't work.

Yeah, I mean, that's not then that's something now. You've tried all the things that work. Why not? Then in that case, like, be a spiritual advisor or a philosopher, like that, you can do those things. Like that's fine. Life coach. Yeah. I think there's lots of room for all of us

to try to help people live better lives, but medicine is a thing. Be one of those people that consults on like law of attraction. You know, one of these like visualization teachers that teach you how to like harness the secret and achieve all your dreams. Just do that.

You go do that. I will not be seeking your expertise. Well, send, we'll send Ono Ross and Carrie after you, at least then you're off our streets. And you know, we don't have to, we don't have to patrol you. That's not my particular preference, but just don't, don't steal holistic that way. What I do is holistic. I will stand on that. What I do is holistic and I don't steal holistic that way. What I do is holistic. I will stand on that. What I do is holistic and I don't practice aerodology.

Dr. Bernard Jensen went looking for some non-traditional sort of methods. Really like naturopathic practitioners, where he found a lot of his solutions for himself and botanicals, and nutritional kinds of food is medicine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That kind of thing.

So, he was a big proponent and proprietor of a lot of these methods. You know, I mean, we're getting into the modern era where it's not enough just to develop a new field of science or medicine or pseudoscience or pseudomedicine. You have to find a way to sell it to you. Yeah, right, you got to profit. He wrote more than 40 books on various natural healing methods. He has, he had three sanitariums and one of them was called the Hidden Valley Health Ranch.

I... Listen, my methods are a little bit, a little bit out there. I put this stuff on everything. That's the whole bit. I love this ranch seasoning. I love Ranch popcorn. Ranch?

It's really good. I get it. Yeah, for sure. I think it should be part of your diet, not your whole diet. Yes, it's that ranch is a sometimes food for her. But it's I mean, I get it. It's tasty. His interest in iridology specifically. So when he became introduced to that, he was like, wow, okay, this, this is something I can really work with. Now this and he wrote books about iridology and he did lectures all over the US. He became like the United States' aerodology guy, right?

This was our expert on our shores, who any went around, any taught it, and he sold books on how to practice it. And like, you can't, I mean, you can be, I don't know, certified, you are trained, and then somebody gives you a piece of paper that says that you were trained and then somebody gives you a piece of paper that says you were trained in your ideology. Right.

And he did his own sort of interpretation of all of this information, all these charts, and made like the chart that is, if you look up iridology charts, you will probably stumble on his, even if you don't put in Bernard Jensen, iridology chart, which of course I did, because I wanted to see that one. You will find it a lot just by looking up what Jensen iridology chart, which of course I did, because I wanted to see that one, you will find it a lot just by looking up what is an iridology chart look like. And you can see, they're very pretty. I can see why you would want one.

Like, in the same way that I see a lot of people in like science and medicine or like in psychiatry, psychology or just people who like medical history will have like a fornology head in their office. I could see wanting one of these erudology charts next to it. Do you see how pretty it is? Like all the colors. It's trying to find it.

If you look at Bernard Jensen, erudology chart, you can find a lot of images. Some of them are in black and white and those are interesting too, but the colorful ones I think are quite looking. Do you know what these are, I mean, if they look like the map for like a starship or something? The different layers that you'd see. Yeah, and it's just like you would imagine. It's the circle. It's the early Epcot designs.

It's the circle of the eyes of the iris and then it's like wedged into all the different, what they, you know, connect to in the body. And like when I'm talking about what they connect to in the body, so iridology, it looks like the one I'm looking at, you know, it looks like exactly. I'll help you picture this at home. Imagine the wheel from wheel of fortune. Yes. That's what it, that's what these look like, except instead of money you could win, there's things like locomotion or shoulder or spleen or whatever. And so they're hand.

So you can look. And by looking at like slight changes in color in those areas or sometimes you'll see little flecks of other colors or things like that or a different pattern in the iris at that exact location. All of that would correspond with a specific organ system dysfunction or a specific disease or just something, we can learn something about the other parts of your body

by looking at that in your eye. This is like, phonology and reflexology. And it's the, yes, it's this, yeah. It's the, I mean, it's seductive. It would be nice, right? What if we could do all-dagnet? What if we could take, because we know we can do this now, right?

We can take really detailed pictures of your iris to track you. So like, why couldn't we take a really detailed picture of your iris and then we could like print out a health profile for you? And now you know everything that's wrong with you. That's a very seductive concept. Were it true?

Yeah, not real. No, but I mean, I can see why you would be drawn to that and want it to be true. So anyway, he developed this chart. That is the dominant one that has been used and built upon further around the same time that Bernard Jensen was kind of formalizing erudology in the US, Dorothy Hall would go on to expand like, why settle for just diagnoses and body parts connected to the eye, why not personalities, types, and characteristics?

And so Dorothy Hall started to develop this kind of like, I can look into your eye and tell you things about who you are as a person, not just if your spleen has a problem. I can tell you if you're very independent or I can tell you if you're very creative or whatever by looking in your eye, which I don't know. That really, I begin to call into question, what is the which I don't know, that really, I begin to call into question, what is the benefit of that, unless we're talking about, I want to use this as some sort of therapy, like mental health kind of, but I don't know that, I mean, I don't know that that has any relation at all.

So then we started to understand the field of erudology started to include this kind of like we can tell you things about who you are by looking at your eye. And I will say one time. And I will say one time. People love that. Yeah, no, exactly. And I think that made it a lot more attractive because then you see like this development of clinical erudology and applied erudology, especially by Harry Wolf. Why does the slide always mean faker? Well, it shouldn't. Applied means you're taking something

and using it for something, you're applying it. Applied gives us geology. It's like, stop messing up words. Applied means useless. That's great. So this, and this will take you both, as this field expanded erudology into the past and the future, is the way I think about it, because first of all,

it builds on this idea that we can tell what's wrong with you from your eyes, and we can tell what you're like from your eyes to, we can tell what happened to you in the past from looking in your eyes. So we can look in your eyes and see, like, past trauma, long-term stress, and not just like the things that have happened to you about how you personally have adapted and dealt with that and the changes in the eye related to that response. I will say this. You know what? I will say this as somebody who has

now heard about a lot of these, your ideology shows a real lack of discipline. You got to hand it to those for, for know what you people and their reflexology people, they put out the chart and they say, listen, can't do everything, but if you squeeze this toe, you're kidding. It'll be fixed, but that's it. Like, you can't say much personality. It does have limits. It's just if you tickle your heel, it makes you bar.

And this, and this, like, this field takes us into behavioral erudology. So like, first of all, we have a plighterodology. And by the way, with applied erudology. So, first of all, we have a plight of erudology. And by the way, with a plight of erudology, again, the idea is like we can figure things out about you from reading your eye. And I'm certain you would pay someone to do this, right? Like, you'd go to a practitioner and pay insurance. It's not gonna cover this.

I'm just gonna say, I haven't looked into every insurance plan. Insurance doesn't cover this, I'm just gonna say. I haven't looked into every insurance plan. I, insurance doesn't cover this. Oh, let's hope not. So you go to, you go to an your doctor's, you pay them to tell you about your eye, and then probably from what I can tell, because I kept trying to find like, but what are they gonna tell you to do?

Like what's the cure? What's the treatment? Oh yeah. And what there, what a lot of, there's a lot of overlap with a lot of these practitioners with other, again, alternative medicine fields. And so like they may tell you you need certain supplements, homeopathic remedies, natural herbal botanical kinds

of things, chiropractic work. There were a lot of work with like body work like that. Like I can adjust you to fix that. Like there was a lot of overlap between this. And then I also do these other 10 things that can fix the things that I found when I did the erudology on you. Does that make sense?

Yeah, for sure. It's the check-in gel light of the human body. Yes, exactly. We use this to tell you what you need to do and then we also happen to be able to provide a range of services that could fix the problem. Now, I will say I use a similar technique for you because I need to look in your eyes

to be able to tell what I should do in a given situation. Right. Well, because when I'm wearing sunglasses, that's hard for you. Yes, I did. You find that very challenging. Hey, eventually I just admitted it and honestly, things have been a lot better since I admitted to Sydney

that I can't tell how she feels if She's wearing sunglasses and if she's gonna talk to me she has to take them off Yes, and I take them off and our conversations go better. Yes What you always think I'm upset when I'm wearing sunglasses. I can't I don't know why your default is whatever's hiding under those sunglasses It's anger. I need all the clues folks. I'm just barely hanging out there I understand what happy people are feeling. I need all the clues, folks. I'm just barely hanging out there, I understand what happy-born feeling I need all the clues. Get with all of it from me. But again, that's not, you were not doing that

in a pseudo-scientific way. No, it's scientific. It has taken me 16 years to create this, my chart, I was saying, no, it is all scientific. I'm tested. So from this, and there's a whole, I was, you move into behavioral erudology, which Jim Vergas is the one who has developed this field.

And we're moving into modern times, by the way, now, now this stuff is still out there, these people are still alive and practicing and selling products related to these sorts of areas. But behavioral erudology is like, we can tell you very personal things about you and give you guidance, not just for like medicinal purposes, but for like mental and spiritual well-being.

Perfect. Based on things that we can see in your eyes. You can learn how to take photos of your eyes so that you can send them to them. They can... I mean, again, and you have to pay them to read these things. There's all kinds of diagrams and pictures about what we can tell. There's specific areas. I thought it was interesting.

I was looking at through this website about behavioral erudology. And there's a whole section on fertility. So I don't even want to, I can't go down that road right now. That's just too much for me. But anyway, that behavioral erudology is a field that has branched off of this. He, by the way, feels that, like, generally speaking, everybody's iris puts them into two types.

There are two types of iris people. There's a thinking type, and you have burnt orange or dark brown spots in your iris, and then there's an emotional type of iris, and you have rounded openings in your iris. And the thinking type has like a left brain sort of mentality, and the emotional iris is a right brain kind of thing. Yeah, I love that. That sounds good to me. It's just, but it's just like it is, it is all these same things we use to predict people's personality and behaviors and like how they'll react to things without having like great

research for that. Yeah. And then finally, of course, where it all comes back around, I was reading some work from John Andrews, who also is doing a lot of... And when I say studies, please remember that a lot of studies in these kinds of practices are not what we would consider rigorous scientific studies. They often don't have a control group, meaning like a bunch of people tried something and then they asked them if they thought it worked.

They don't have like another group who didn't try it and see if, you know, are they fine too? They're very small. They could be done solely on people who sought out the practice to begin with, which is a bias in a selection sample, you know, if you are someone who is predisposed to seeking alternative healing methods, you are also predisposed to believing that they are working, especially if you're spending money on them. Yes.

So anyway, John Andrews has expanded this work to talk about vaccination reactions. Yes, we got there, folks. And children. To bedding. there folks and children and like basically trying to say that there's immune issues that you can see in the eye because of vaccines. There's no absolutely no evidence for any of that that is absolutely nothing to worry about when it comes to vaccination because the practice upon which that is built your ideology has never been scientifically validated.

So that's where we end with this. There have been meta-analysis done of studies that have been published on urodology through the years. And basically to look and say, is this something that works? Is there research that supports it? What is our whole of information on erudology and after looking through dozens and dozens of studies, there were like 77, this was published in the year 2000.

So this is an older study, but you're not gonna find a lot of meta-analysis on erudology. They look through like 77 publications from all over the world. They only found four at the end of the day that actually had a controlled masked approach to it. So like something where you could tell something from it. You know, no, but the participants didn't know who was in what group and all this different stuff, right?

And in all four of those, they found absolutely no evidence that someone practicing your ideology could tell anything from a person's eye outside of random chance. So there is no evidence that your knowledge started there. And just read it very, so it's well, I feel like you all knew where we were headed. There's no evidence that all the erudology works. Like a lot of things looking in your eye is not harmful, right? Somebody looking at your eye is not a risk. The problem, The problem is, one, did you go do that instead of seeking out actual medical advice at which point you've put yourself at risk?

Two, there's a financial risk. You're wasting your money because there's no evidence that this works. And three, if the person who's practicing your ideology is also practicing other alternative medicines, they may recommend to you things that are harmful, because we've talked about a lot on this show, just because something is quote unquote natural,

doesn't mean it's safe for you to put in your human body. It can have lots of side effects or direct effects that can be harmful to you or interact with other medicines or make a problem worse than it already was, on top of the fact that you're not actually getting treated for whatever was wrong to begin with. So, you know, I would not recommend seeking your ideology. They would need to do way more studies, really rigorous

clinical trials to show any sort of impact of this whatsoever. And I don't really see that happening. All that being said, one time I was getting my eyes whatsoever, and I don't really see that happening. All that being said, one time I was getting my eyes checked because I wear contacts and glasses and I have to do that regularly. And the ophthalmologist told me that he could tell, I like Dr. Pepper. And she did.

And I do love Dr. Pepper. So, okay, just take that for what it is. We have two opposing sides. There's two different, we're letting you choose this week on saw bones, either all that other stuff, or this one time, you know about that. I don't know. I-I-I-I but I also used to frequently use Dr. Pepper chapstick So I feel like that may have played a role Mmm, and you're holding a Dr. Pepper at the time. I don't know. There had to have been something there was some I do I do not believe

I just wanted to the chair slap. I did the chair slap and scoot to in the episode two I'm ready to leave the episode. Thank you so much Hey public service announcement. Don't forget to go get your flu shot. Yes. It's a good one this year. Real smooth. And if you haven't gotten your, you know, they call it by a valent. The most recent COVID booster. I go. A lot of people think of it as the one that will protect you against a macrosion related. We should do like a, we've just talking to people lately. So many people don't know when they can get it. Like, there's a lot, some people have a lot of questions about like, when I had COVID last and, you know, is it safe for me to get it now or when it's like the best time for me to get it? Like,

check the see, how about this? Check the CDC website. They have really clear, easy to follow guidelines. If you just type in COVID vaccination or COVID booster, it is really easy to follow. You know, generally speaking, if you don't currently have COVID, you're probably do. Unless you got your last booster fairly recently. So check the time frames, look and see, has it been a couple months since your last booster, you're probably do. Or did you have COVID, but you're out of the quarantine period and you're now fine, you're probably do. Or did you have COVID, but you're out of the quarantine period and you're now fine, you're probably do. But check the CDC.

They have really clear to follow guidelines. They have a calculator. They have a little thing where you can plug in information about your last doses and current stuff. And it will tell you like, yes, go get a booster or no, don't go, you don't need one. Yeah, knock them out at the same time. Yeah, no problem. That is, that's going to do it for us for this week.

Thanks to taxpayers for these two songs, medicines, as the intro and outro of our program. And thanks to you for listening. I'm going to do it for us. Until next time, my name is Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy. It's always, don't drill a hole in your head. Alright! Artist-owned? Audience supported.