Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: John Kellogg's Odd Prescription

Episode Date: August 16, 2013

Welcome to Sawbones, where Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband Justin McElroy take you on a whimsical tour of the dumb ways in which we've tried to fix people. This week: We force feed you corn flakes. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

This week's episode of Saw Bones includes some mature themes like masturbation and general mutilation, so some listener discretion is advised. Saw Bones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. One, two, one, two, three, four. One, two, three, four.

We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We wished on through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around, some medicines, some medicines that escalate my cop for the mouth. Wow. Hello, and welcome to Saw Bones. My name is Justin McAroy. And I'm Sydney McAroy. This is a marital tour of misguided medicine.

It's said, how you doing? Well, pretty good, Justin, but I kind of, before we got started, there was something I really needed to talk to you about. Okay, hit me, baby, anything. I mean, this is kind of personal. No, it's fine. It's just us and our close friends here.

Well, I've noticed lately that, you know, you just haven't been very interested in, well, you know, like, private time. You mean sex. Yeah, that's what I mean. Wow. Okay. So a couple of things.

First one, I guess would be I kind of wish we talked about this before I pressed our record button. I mean, that would have been ideal. Well, you said it was okay. I didn't know. I mean, I thought maybe we were gonna talk about whose turn it is to wash the dishes, something like that. Always yours. Always mine, correct.

That's right. That was a trick question. So, okay, so I'm sorry, first off. Well, thanks, but I just thought, you know, maybe something was going on. And so, you know, maybe something was going on and so, you know, I've really been thinking about it. And I think I know the reason. Hit me.

Well, you know how you've started eating cornflakes for every meal. Right. Every single meal morning, new to night cornflakes. Right. Well, aside from the fact that that's really a lot of carbs. It's a bit of carbs. Yeah, well, debatable. You know, and kind of low on like all other parts of the nutritional pyramid. I think it's fortified, but go on.

I think all that bland food is really driving, driving your libido down there, honey. Okay, I know you're technically a medical doctor. I'm looking at your diploma as we speak. But why are you formulating this theory? I mean, what is ledger to this point? And what are you basing this on? Well, I'm really building this on the teachings

of the great Dr. John Harvey Kellogg. Now, I know Kellogg, I see that name, Health Three Times a Day, when I tear open one of my many, many boxes of cornflakes. It looks ridiculous in our cabinets right now. It's just wall to wall cornflakes everywhere. And then my homas in the cabinet. I don't know how to store food.

Yeah, it's rotten, but God love her. She won't give up on it. Tell me about John Harvey Kellogg, Sydney. Well, John Harvey Kellogg, Sydney. Well, John Harvey Kellogg is a, he was a doctor. He was a surgeon, a physician a surgeon. He lived from 1852 to 1943. And most people recognize that name and think

instantly of serial, as you mentioned. Delicious, delicious life giving serial. Now, to be fair, the serial that we all know and love well you love today. Kellogg cereal is actually the creation of his brother will not John. Will Kellogg. But John was involved in the initial process. So. So how did John Kellogg the one we're gonna talk about? John Keolog's the one we're gonna talk about today because he's the one who was, I don't wanna say a little crazy because that's not fair, but had some interesting ideas about medicine.

Well, let's take it back though. Whoa, how did he get his start? Tell me the origin story of weirdo John Harvey Keolog. So John Keolog was born in Tyrone, Michigan to John and Anne Kellogg. Sure. He grew up there, attended Battle Creek Public School. He started studying, he was an active member. This is kind of the beginning of his pathway. He was an active member of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. And it was actually at the urging of one of the church leaders, Ellen White, that he attended medical school

because they had a lot of ideas about healthy living and promoting a, you know, a better healthier lifestyle and they thought, you know, we could really use a physician to help guide our kind of ideas about this. In classic, in classics, it's fashion. They had a lot of ideas, but not based on it's fashion, they had a lot of ideas, but not based on reality. They thought, hey, wouldn't it be great if we had someone who actually knew about this stuff so we wouldn't just keep guessing? Well, that was kind of the problem, is that a lot of their medical theories were based on, well, visions. And visions. Ellen White was a prophet and spoke with God many times.

And so a lot of her ideas about healthy living work from those conversations. Okay. God's getting into the nutritional game. I say, it's a huge market. I say, yeah, not content to just leave it to Susan Powder. God's dipping his ephemeral toe in. The margins are great. Great margins on health. So John Kellogg decided he was going, he was an active member and he wanted to go in

a medicine. So he initially actually studied at the Hygio Therapeutic College of New York, which was a school that Russell Troll, who was actually an MD, he was actually a doctor, had opened to kind of promote a way to teach medicine in light of his own beliefs, which were about vegetarian lifestyle and don't use medicines like that. If somebody has a disease, it's not that we need to put something in there to fix it. We just need to figure out what they're doing wrong and take that away. A lot of what we'll see later that John Kellogg went to develop his theories about health

and healthy living were based on some of these same ideas. we'll see later that John Kellogg went to develop his theories about health and, you know, healthy living were based on some of the same ideas. But he also knew that this was kind of, you know, this was like a one-sided kind of view of medicine that he was getting. So he transferred to what would later become Eastern Michigan University and then to the NYU Medical College at Bellevue. So kind of all over the place. Yeah.

Was he looking for someone who married his own beliefs or was he still kind of forming those, do you think? I think he was still forming those beliefs. I think he was definitely already influenced by, you know, the leaders at the Adventist Church who had, you know, kind of shaped his way of looking at the world. And he was, I think he was looking for support

in the scientific realm for the things he already believed. He already had his conclusions. He just, he wanted, you know, some reasons for them. So he, he finishes medical school. What's next for Kellogg? So when he finished medical school, he actually, very young, he came to the, what was called the Western Health Reform Institute of Battle Creek, which was a center for healthy living that Ellen White had started.

And he became the chief physician there at the young age, I believe, of like 24. Wow. He also, by the way, he married Ella Eaton, and throughout their life, I think it's interesting. He had 42 foster children. Wow. He actually adopted seven of them. Wow. Okay. He was a busy guy.

As we go on, I'm going to tell you about what he did because the Western Health Reform Institute of Battle Creek, he renamed the Battle Creek Sanitarium, which you may have heard of. It's a creepier name, but perhaps a bunch of year one, than the Western Health Reform Institute of Battle Creek. That would imply that there's an Eastern Health Reform Institute of Battle Creek

that they had an ongoing feud with. To be fair, there may have been, it just didn't get the recognition because it didn't have a John Kellogg. That, okay, fair enough. If you worked at the Institute, the Eastern Health Reform Institute of Battle Creek, it's using email email us. We'd love to know, but perhaps if you worked at the Northern Health Reform or the Southern, yeah, any of the South Westerns,

of Battle Creek. Um, so he, so he started working there and he changed it to the Battle Creek Sanitarium, which would actually be later just known as the Sands, the Sam, the Sam, that's what it was called. So what is the name Sanitarium imply? Now this was a lot of people get this confused with a psychiatric facility or a mental health facility It wasn't it was just a like a hospital or a health center if you, a place where you could go and stay and get treatments and advice and work with a physician on how to be healthier. And he was an active guy. I mean, he only slept four or five hours a night. He was cycling and

jogging every single day. Like I said, he, or he raised 42 children, he wrote 50 books, he edited magazines. This was like a dynamic guy who wanted to do lots of stuff, believed he had uncovered the secret to a healthy, happy life and wanted to share it with all these people through the Battle Creek Sanitarium. So what is, what's the secret, Sid? What's his secret to a happy, healthy life?

So the whole concept is called biologic living. Biologic living. Biologic living. Again, a lot of this is based on, you'll get the same kind of thing if you look into the profit, Ellen White, and the seventh day Adventist Church. What she told him to do. But it basically is a, so a grain-based vegetarian diet for sure. Definitely.

That's like the big corner snack. Okay, so far into it. Serial way into it, not milk, I guess. No, you can milk. No, you can have some, well, you can have yogurt. Okay, sure. I guess you can have milk. well, you can have yogurt. Okay, sure. But I guess you can have milk. I'm actually into Sierra Leone yogurt mix together.

It's actually a pretty good combo. I do that some mornings. It's nice, a little more substantial. That's not your main to the topic, but go on. That's fair. You can share. It's a safe space. There's some cranberry in there.

True yourself, go on. So no, he said you can eat things. You know wheat germ. You know wheat germ is good for you. I don't know why, but they sell in a big bag and I put it on stuff. Okay, well I think that's good. As far as your breakfast habits, I think we all understand now. We've got a pretty good understanding.

I mean that's just that sometimes I go a little more protein. They added some bacon and eggs into that. That wouldn't be down. No, see. That would not be okay. Not biological. With Dr. Kellogg, no. Biologic living is a stupid name, right?

That's a dumb name. It is a dumb name. That means like life living basically, okay. Like living things, living. Okay. The science of life living. Okay, so I'm into the green-based vegetarian diet. Into it, what else we got?

And that kind of consists of, so eat things like peanut butter, granola, eat yogurt. And then of course, he invented cornflakes. So eat those because, you know, again, those margins, things to avoid in this diet for sure, of course, meat, but then things you might not have suspected. Such as spices. Mm. All of them. Why? Condiments. Okay. All of them. And then of course, alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, and sugar. Okay. And I'll get into why this spice is in the condiments because I know that seems odd.

He also believed in some things that are to be fair, good ideas, exercise, fresh air, good posture. He also believed in lots of sunshine, you know, and if you couldn't be outside or if it was winter, you should have a sun lamp. Get your D. Yeah, so, you know, I mean, I don't think he knew what he was that that's what that was for. He knew he felt better. But he knew he felt better. I feel like I got out of the sun. I don't know what D is, but I feel like I have have my D. He believed in hydrotherapy. So just, know hang out in the water I guess get some water going on there and and dress well That's a good for health. Yeah

I feel part of the biological living. I'm not sure if there's a causation or a correlation But a lot of unhealthy people do you know where sweatpants like to be fair? I a lot of people I see a Walmart that don't seem to be taking the best care of themselves, aren't some very blossoming outfits. I mean, they're very loose-fitting clothing. So it's a real chicken or the egg kind of scenario. Right. Does the sweatpants cause the poor health, or are you trying to hide your poor health by wearing sweatpants? Interesting.

I don't know. This and more on another episode. I love to do a study. Our sweatpants episode. Now, I do think it should be mentioned that at the time, you know, our meat processing industry was not, well, safe or clean, right, necessarily, bad for you. And people did not always have the greatest refrigeration methods available to them for me. So urging people that maybe meat is making them sick is not totally crazy at the time.

Right, but it wasn't, I mean, again, I think this is more like him not knowing why it's better, but I mean, it was, if they could have assured him that it was,'s better, but I mean it was, if they could have assured him that it was, you know, process well, I still don't think it would have been. No, no, he still would not have been okay with it. I think, you know, his main thesis was that all disease originates in the stomach and bows. So this is the sort, this is the site of all of our kind

of bad germs. We need to cleanse them out of us and only put good things back in. So what kind of good things am I going to put in in me? I'm into the yogurt and the cereal and the nuts and peanut butter. I like all that. Well, you're going to put all those things in you, but you're not just going to eat them, Justin. Well, I'm going to smell them before I guess that's good

That says that's the move for your palate. I mean to that. I'll smell them sure Well, that's a good start, but what I'd also like you to do is take this yogurt and just go ahead and put it right up your butt Okay, right up there number one cumbersbersome. That's not a no. I don't, I, you may need some tubing. I'm good on that front. You know what, I didn't get any tubing at the store like you told me to for the episode. I didn't get that.

So I'm going to have to hold on for you. You didn't get the animal tubing. Yoga in a tubing. So he believed in daily animals very strongly because disease. Daily daily daily. Because disease originates in the bows, you've got to keep them

clean. So daily animals are important and the even better are yogurt animals. Daily though, I mean, that's like you can't go to sleep without knowing you had an animal that day and you're definitely, definitely going to have one tomorrow. But every day, that would be hard to sleep.

He, that kind of, the cleanliness of colon was very important to his whole, what about tightness of butthole? Like that, that's going to wreck your shop. Well, he seemed to do okay. He had one every day. Yeah, but, okay, we know he lived to a nice long age. There's nothing about how cavernous his aim as well is one of the end of it.

I don't have any data on that. That's not an end of it. Is it documentation? That was not on the Wikipedia page. Oh, man, I don't want to do a yogurt anima-sidney. That's crazy. That doesn't even make sense. Well, okay, let me at least say this.

His idea about yogurt animas, where one, he already believed so strongly in animals, but two, he thought that you could clean out the bad like germs and bacteria is what we're talking about although he wasn't using that word. But he also thought you would be putting things back into your colon that it needed by putting yogurt up there. Now that's not a totally crazy thought. Probiotics, right? Right. Yogurt does have active cultures in it.

So now I am not by any means. Let me make this very clear. I am not recommending yogurt animals to anybody. Ever. Don't do that. Please don't do that. But what flavor? No. Eat yogurt.

I will say that unless you're allergic to it or something, or you don't like it then don't. But if you enjoy yogurt, that's a good thing. You should eat yogurt. It does have active cultures and those, you know, your vows do need your good bacteria. Bacteria isn't all bad, you know? Oh sure. We need a bacteria cloud around this.

Right. We need a bacteria cloud. You need those good bacteria in your colon. So it's not crazy to think, well, we'll take the bad stuff out and put good stuff in. That's not a crazy idea, but a yogurt animal is a crazy idea. Okay. So we don't want to put yogurt in the butt, technically speaking. No.

No. Is there anything else I need to avoid, Sydney, because I'm definitely avoiding the yogurt animals, but I want to try to stay on Kellogg's good side at the sanitarium. So is there anything else I can steer clear of that might help? Well, so if you, Dr. Kellogg believes that if all of your problems weren't coming from your stomach, the only other place they could be coming from is your bedroom. He firmly was against any sexual intercourse at all. But that's just counterintuitive.

I mean, he thought it was a source of disease. He claimed that in the 40 years that he was married to his wife, they never once had sex. And that was the reason for a lot of the bland diet is that foods like grains and cornflakes do not increase your sex drive, so it's easier for you to avoid sex and maintain your healthy status, but spices and condiments and things like that make you want to have sex and sugar, so you shouldn't eat them because then you'll want to have sex more.

To be fair, if you were married to a man whose anus was like a fleshy tuba, you probably wouldn't want to lay down with him. No, we're not supposed to say things like that on this show. There's no profanity there. It's just bad ideas. So he was very much, he preached abstinence, he preached celibacy. That was very important to him. Not just, you know, don't have sexual intercourse with other people, but don't have sex with yourself either. Now see, this is where I have a problem because I mean, even in the... I mean, even in these backwards times when we didn't know all the stuff we know today, it seems to me that that's so obviously a part of human nature that we need to keep

the species going. I mean, it's like it's very obviously essential to our continued existence. It's a very strange perspective. If you read, you know, there are places where he's touted as like the father of natural medicine, which is bizarre if you think that it is totally unnatural to tell everybody not to have sex. That's a very unnatural thing because you're right. In our species, ceases to exist. And I didn't find any evidence that he wanted the human race to die out. So I don't know what his long-term plan was.

Is it just the idea of triumphant over animal instincts, you think? You think that's the idea that, by giving into that, you think that's the idea that, by giving into that, you're sacrificing some of your health? I think so. I think the whole idea of like your body is your temple, you need to keep it sacred, keep it clean, keep it healthy, and not let anything violate it. I think that was where he was coming from.

And other people in their germs would violate your sacred temple, I guess? So what? You mentioned self-pleasuring. What's so bad about that? He thought everything was bad about that. He essentially thought any of your ills could be caused by masturbation if you engage in that activity.

So he blamed cancer of the womb on masturbation. Any urinary problems, impotence, epilepsy, insanity, any ability, if you had problems with your vision, and then of course, if you were just morally corrupt, all of these things could be caused by masturbation. He had specific cases he would cite, one of paralysis that was caused by masturbation and one of clubfoot that was caused by masturbation and one of clubfoot

that was caused by masturbation. And he firmly believed that this was, if it wasn't in your, if it wasn't in your bowels, it was in your underwear. I just do wanna say one quick note, if you give yourself paralysis or clubfoot with masturbation, you are doing it wrong. You did a bad, bad one.

That's not how you do it. That's a bad job. That's a bad one. That's not how you do it. That's a bad job. That's not how you do it. That's not how you do it. I'm sure there are many instructional videos online that you could refer to. Many, ever-yielding comments. You're looking for.

You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for.

You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. You're looking for. you could say that with all these different symptoms that not masturbating was sort of a cure all. I think you could say that Justin. And what do we know about carols in the carols cure nothing. So he had to have a treatment for this right if somebody just couldn't help themself but

masturbate. Oh no. And specifically at this point we're talking about kids. At the sand, you know, there were a lot of rich people who would come and they would bring their children. And you know, you can tell adults not to masturbate and then I don't know, at least maybe they're smart enough to lie about it or, you know, they're telling you they stopped at least. But the kids, they would catch doing it. And no matter how many times he would tell them to stop, they wouldn't.

So they had to come up with a way to make them stop. I read in Red Book once you can give them a ring in their pocket that they can play with, that it would distract them. You read that where? Red Book, popular women's magazine, Red Book. When were you reading Red Book? Probably 10 or 12, I don't know.

Looking for sexy stuff. No dies. And you checked readbook. Good enough a lot of choices in my home. See you on man. I'm sorry. So how did they stop it? It probably wasn't a ring in your pocket. No. One option was circumcision. So yeah. Nope. Dr. Kellogg actually recommended against routine circumcision for infants. Okay. Because it's so much more fun to do it when they're young children. Nope. Dr. Kellogg actually recommended against routine circumcision for infants. Because it's so much more fun to do it when they're young children. I want to like super clear memory of it, definitely.

Well, that would have to be my first memory, actually. Oh, he wanted you to have the memory of it. That was the whole idea. Stop circumcision or stop masturbation. By doing a circumcision, when they're old enough to remember it without anesthesia so that they have a negative association with you know that whole arena with their penises and they're not going to want to touch them. He said it would make them soar initially so they're definitely not going to do anything for a while and hopefully that would stick and they would never want to touch themselves again. Okay

that's that's all pretty messed up. That's very messed up. Did, uh, so this is all goofy. Does, uh, does, does it apply to girls too? Oh yeah, well, um, you know, there is, of course, the idea of the, I hate to even use a term female circumcision because I think we're talking about genital mutilation at this point.

But certainly that was an option and he was a surgeon. He performed all these surgeries himself. So you could remove the clitoris if it was necessary. But most of the time, you could just settle for putting carbolic acid on the clitoris of a young woman who would not stop masturbating. Ugh, that's the best. So just burn it with acid.

Just burn it with acid. If these things didn't work, you could bandage their hands, tie their hands together. Oh, and you're always watching them 24-7, by the way. He definitely recommended that. Keep your kids with an eyesight all the time. Don't let them have any privacy. They hove out of your field of vision,

they may begin masturbating. You could go, Do you know how much you have to want to masturbate if you know that you are running a risk of getting the tip of your penis lopped off? Like do you know how much you have to want to masturbate? I mean, I'm saying when I was 13, it might not have stopped me to be fair. I was pretty determinative memory serves, but that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,

that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,

that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, this seems so nutty. Was it, did it work?

I mean, were people into it? No, I mean, well, were people into it? That's a tricky question. Certainly, the people at the sand were variant to it. And let me just finish out that thought. There were the surgeries, of course, but you could also put some cages that he patented for your genitals, some general cages,

so that you couldn't touch yourself, or you could sew the four skin together, or you could just apply electrical shocks to all of your private parts. So, he had all these options for children as well. And the sand became very, very popular. At its height, there were like 7,000 guests, 1800 staff. Famous people came. John D. Rockefeller, Amelia Earhart, Henry Ford.

Wow. So, Jorn or Truth, Mary Todd Lincoln. Ah, Mary Todd Lincoln. We got you again, Lincoln. You're on notice. Every episode. Every episode. We're coming for the Lincoln family.

And with all these famous rich people coming to the sand, it was, you know, everybody thought, well, it must be, he must know what he's talking about. These must be good ideas. I can't imagine. I don't know why all these people were locked there together and told not to have sex and they were okay with it. So these glory days could not have lasted forever. I'm assuming just because it's, you know, it's not a thing now.

Well, I think the first problem that it should be noted, the seventh day Adventist church actually broke all ties with him in 1907. Do you know how bad off base you have to be for churches to say you've gone too far after a reservation? You based your whole thing on our teachings and now you've totally screwed it up.

I listen, hey, he's talking, I had another vision. It was big gene. He's like, we're out. Yeah. Do you know what he's doing to little kids, penises? We're done. He was cool with the yogurt even the whole thing. The butt yogurt. That's great. He's just not this whole scene. This is a mess. He cannot be a party to. So it continued on until really the depression at that point. People just couldn't

afford to go. It kind of declined in popularity. He tried. A lot of people had tried to push him to move the whole thing south where the weather was better because one of his big things was like, hang out outside in the sunshine. And everybody said, we'll move it to Florida. So finally in like 1931, he moved it down to Miami, but it was just never really as popular as the original San was. It kinda, I mean, I think it had just fallen out of favor at that point. Plus that was when he started talking

about the importance of eugenics and separating the races. Uh oh. And at that point, I imagine that a lot of people lost interest in him, and hanging out with him. I assume that maybe he lost a few friends over that one. You know, you really would have thought that the mutilation of children's genitals would have done it, but I guess. I had to be a few stragglers. This was the

straw that broke the camel's back. And he really was that that is something, you know, we've said some nice, I don't want to say nice things about him, but we've said some fair things about him. But he definitely was a member of the eugenic society and he promoted, even though he adopted African-American children, he absolutely thought that anybody who wasn't white was polluting the gene pool. Awesome. That was a great job. Not a great guy.

It should be noted, his brother Will Kellogg was a much cooler guy. They accidentally invented cornflakes when they were trying to make some other gross bland flake and they burnt it and then they ended up with cornflakes and they disagreed over whether or not they should add sugar. They should. Well, that's what Will said. And he did. They went their separate ways, each making their corn flakes, Will's with sugar, John's without and eventually Will formed the company we know as Kellogg and all the cereals that came there from. Tell me, just tell me he's dead. That's all I want to know. He definitely is. He died at age 91 of pneumonia. He wanted to make it to 100.

He didn't quite make it. That's a funny goal. Like, you know, my goal is just not. That's just don't die. Like I think it's just why set limits? How about we just all have the goal of just going as long as we can without dying? Well, I think he, you know, he was trying to be realistic and he was also using his life as a, like, an example of the success of his own theories, you know, like, look how great

I did and I did all the things I said you should do. So I think anybody who restricts their diet and does the yogurt, I mean, he's obviously determined. Now it is sad. He wrote, this is interesting. He wrote a letter to his brother Will on his deathbed apologizing to him so that they could be friends again before he died. And his secretary also hated Will so much that she refused to send it. So after he died, she stuck it in a drawer somewhere and

it was found decades later. Who am I supposed to feel bad for again? The General Mutilator or his brother? I guess I feel bad for his brother. All he did was like make sugary cereal. Is that bad though? I don't know. It hasn't been great for a miracle long term I think. And now, that's fair. And to be fair, I don't really know much about Will Kellogg's personal beliefs. He may have been just as big a jerk as it sounds like John Kellogg was. I don't really know.

Although to be fair, you would have to add a lot of sugar to cornflakes before you're the general mutilated level of bad person. Yeah, separation of races kind of, you know. I don't think, I don't even think oops, all crunch berries, the level of general mutilation. What about that Reese Cup cereal? Does that one count?

Yeah, maybe, that's a possibility. It should be noted that John Kellogg also invented electric blankets. Great, okay. I wasn't solved. You're off the hook. But then, nope, because you made meat substitutes. Pro toast and new toast?

Well, I don't even know, you. So. Oh, Kellogg. I know. And you got so close, you feel too close to the sun. Your wings melted. Your wings melted onto the genitals of youth. Ugh. Now, most people probably are

familiar at least somewhat with John Kellogg because this of course was the basis for the movie road to well-ville I'm assuming it's a heightened a heightened version of the story or maybe absolutely no I mean it's based on these things that we've talked about but it's different and I it's been a long time since I see the movie but I don't I've the movie, but I don't think they covered the circumcision aspect at all. I bet they didn't. That probably made it on the, if you'll pardon the pun, cutting room floor.

I had that was unnecessary. Thank you so much for listening to our program, saw bones. We've hope you had a lot of fun here today. We want to thank people taking time out to tweet about the program that always makes our day. I read everyone. Cindy reads everyone, and I knew too, but I think she tries to shield me from the heat. Well, that's because I read them to you.

You guys have all, because I can't read. You guys have actually been, everyone's been really, really nice and complimentary using the at-saw bones on Twitter and helping to spread the word there. We have really, really appreciated it. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you guys so much. I'm really glad that those of you who enjoy it do. Thanks to people who reviewed the show, like DVMoc, Action Allen, ETINKC, Reject 14, Camcrain, Pod Gong,

Dirk and Brooklyn, Dr. Fibs, Cad God, Jess Callum, Lobster, but I like pop C, Marlowe family, Doug Leah, so many others. And thank you so much to PT Hilton. He wrote a wonderful review of our show, though I really appreciate it. Thank you. So thank you to everybody.

Thank you for the reviews. Thank you for the tweets. We're here every Friday. If you want to get in contact with us at solbonsatmaximumfund.org. We have a website solbonsshow.com, although that's just a redirect to our page on maximum fun, where you can listen to a ton of great programs like my brother and my brother and me, stop podcasting yourself, judge John Hodgman, Blambang-Powell, one bad mother, bullseye,

Jordan Jessica, I could go on. And you can always tweet at us at Justin McAroy and at Sydney McAroy syt in ee and thank you so much for tuning in. Make sure to join us again next Friday and as always I'm Justin McAroy. I'm Sydney McAroy. Don't drill a hole in your head. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture, Artistone, Listener Supported. or comedy and culture, artist owned.

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