Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Knock Knock Hi

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

Justin and Dr. Sydnee are joined by parallel-universe versions of themselves, The Glaucomfleckens! The two doctor-spouse duos talk about Will and Kristen Flanary's journey into podcasting, including serious medical scares, balancing work and kids, and social media. KNOCK KNOCK HI: https://glaucomflecken.com/podcast/ Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers https://taxpayers.bandcamp.com/

Sawbones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. from that weird growth. You're worth it. All right, time is about to books.

One, two, one, two, three, four. Hello everybody and welcome to Sawbones, a Meryl Turef misguided medicine. for the mouth. Hello everybody and welcome to Sawbones Meryl Tour of Miss Guided Medicine. I am your co-host Justin McRoy. And I'm Sydney McRoy. And Sydney, I am so excited. Me too. I'm on Tintor Hooks. I'm on Eggshells. These are bad ones. What's a good cloud nine?

Yeah, I was going to say Eggshell. That's not a good. That's good. That's not a good. I'm on Eggshell. Today we are joined by, I guess kind of like an alternate universe reality. If there's a multiverse of our life experience, we are joined by Will and Kristen Flanner. You may know them better as the Glocken Flockens.

Am I saying that correctly? You are. Glocken Flockens. That was great. Nice job. A lot of people trip over it. I get a lot of like Glocken flock and glock and spiel. I said it a hundred times in the mirror, so that it was worth every second.

We did practice. We did practice to each other. That's good. Sing it in different styles. Outside of ophthalmology, it's an unknown term, but it's an actual medical term. I don't know. I'm sure a lot of our listeners are familiar with your all's work, especially because they email us about it regularly to say,

did you all know that there's this other parallel universe? You guys, tell me about your, give me the, the, the spiel, your pitch, your, your overall life journey condensed as much as possible. Yeah. Well, I mean, the reason she, how far back do we go? Keep it short.

No, quite a winding journey. A lot of, yeah, a lot of twists. We don't want to leave anything out. Well, I was a pretty happy baby. That's great. Kristen was a little bit rough around the edges. I was busier, yeah. No, you know, we met in college and then

went on to med school. Well, you did. I went on to med school. Kristen was in grad school at Dartmouth and absolutely hated it. It was like the worst experience of her life. And I enjoyed med school a little bit more than you enjoyed grad school. But anyway, we didn't start the social media stuff

really until resident. I was in residency in Iowa. And by that point, we had a couple of kids. I also had- Well, you are really just breezing through this. It's skipping a lot. It's a long, it's a long- Trying to get to the good stuff here.

Yeah. Well, maybe you should back up. Maybe you should get the kids, get to the good stuff. A few things happened in vegetable school that were rather important. Right, that's true, that's true. So I guess I'll back up a little bit. We had our first kid in third year of med school,

my third year of med school. Fourth year. Was it fourth year? Yeah, he split. One of the years, I don't know. I took five years. I took an extra year, because I needed some extra time.

But we had our first kid, and then not too long after that, I was diagnosed with testicular cancer. So I had that going for me in med school. Recovered okay. And I was, as far as the comedy stuff, I had started doing that in high school. I was doing like some stand-up comedy, just amateur stuff.

I was, I never called myself like a professional stand-up comedian. Even though I did make 20 bucks once, I was very excited about that in med school. I did a little opening set at a, at like a VFW kind of, it's just, I don't know. Anyway, rural Vermont, very exciting place for comedy. Anyway, so yeah, I had the cancer thing. I recovered okay from that.

I was doing some, some standup comedy thing, I recovered okay from that, was doing some stand-up comedy stuff, not medical related stuff at that point really. And then we went to Iowa, where I went to, Kristen was very excited about that, excited about moving to Iowa, right? Yeah, when he told me that that was one of the programs he was interested in, which it turns out, like it's one of the top programs in the country

for ophthalmology, but all I heard was cornfields. So when he told me about it, I was skeptical to say the least I was not in sure yeah, yeah, but but I was I was thrilled. I was really happy to It was it was a great program. We went out to Iowa Iowa City she had Iowa City Hawkeyes and We had our second kid while we were there. During residency. So if you are keeping track at home, we now have a med school baby and a residency baby.

We're doing everything correctly. Yeah, right, right. That's tough. Yeah, life was, it was busy, but we were getting through it. And Kristen was working at a center for gifted education. So doing some programming stuff, some marketing stuff. And then during residency, I had cancer a second time. Yeah, so.

I have to imagine too, I don't know if you were the kind of med student who had med student syndrome where like you diagnosed yourself with everything that you learned about, because I definitely did. You did the opposite, everything is fine. Well, for others. I definitely did. You did the opposite. Everything is fine. Well, for others. I kept imagining. I kept imagining I had things, but I didn't. And so, for me, that would have been, I just can't imagine how anxiety provoking like, oh, I was right this

time. I had this fear. Twice. Twice. I was right twice. Yeah. That must have been scary. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I certainly at one point thought I had ALS, you know, and like all these other diseases that you learn that get stuck in your brain. I totally relate to that. But it was kind of the opposite, though. Like when I felt this lump in my testicle, I tried really hard to convince myself. It was nothing like, oh, I'm just, that's just my epitomist. The obstacles are lumpy.

It's just, you know, something there. You know what? Well, let's use the platform here a little bit. What would you, because I'll be honest with you. I think that a lot of people with testicles have this, this sense, or at least I do, I'll speak for myself, right? I have this sense that if there was a problem going on down there, it is solely my responsibility.

I am the, I'm the front lines of testicle care in this house. Nobody else has testicles. I'm the front lines of testicle care. Nobody has testicles in this house. Yeah, but even though our dog had testicles, we got those removed. We got those removed. Did you get the fake ones, the plastic ones

that are for the dogs that are supposed to, was it Shark Tank that had that? Anyway. Yeah. Wow, that's a product. OK. Yeah. Then a zippy name for it too that I don't recall. But like, what should I be feeling for? If people, people with testicles are worried about it, what? Yeah. So I felt like it was just clearly like my testicle was growing another testicle.

It was like this, it was like my testicle was dividing. There was this huge, it was a very hard feeling, like compared to a normal testicle, which is a little spongy, a little, you could squeeze it a little bit. Yeah, sure. But this little gift to it, that's right. But this thing that was on the testicle was very hard.

It was small though. It was pretty small, because I caught it very early. And, I mean, fortunately, I guess I just spent a lot of time. I was very comfortable with my own testicles. And I knew. You got to be thorough. Right, you got to be thorough. Yeah, I feel like men don't need any extra encouragement

to just be feeling their balls. So just while you're down there, pay a little bit of attention. That's fair. Yeah, I feel like men don't need any extra encouragement to just be feeling their balls. So That's something you've brought to my attention before just a tendency to just Just sort of straighten or rearrange Okay, so the second time the second So the first time around had the, I had my testicle removed. It's called an orcheectomy. It's a very straightforward, pretty easy surgery to recover from. And fortunately you don't, you don't really have to have two testicles for the most part. Like, yeah, fortunately you got, you got an extra there. So.

It's just a little bit off balance when you walked. Yeah. Just a couple little you got an extra there. So it's just a little bit off balance when you walked. Yeah, just a couple little things. Yeah, exactly. Um, do you, I will, I'll ask, because everybody's wondering, did, did they let you keep it? Oh, um, no, I, no, I didn't, I mean, I, I didn't ask. You're looking me like I wasn't like you weren't wondering. Okay. I'm not.

We'll strike that. I'm sure some people were wondering because I do not put it past any man who has to have their testicle removed to then put it on their shelf. Like, look at this. Look at this. I have a dip too. We're all just like, right.

I mean, when I take cataracts out, people are like, can I keep my cataract? I'm like, no, it's in a thousand pieces. You can't do that. But it's a common question. We get that on the show a lot. People asking asking like are you ever allowed to keep your appendix? Are you ever allowed to keep your gallbladder? Like I think a lot of people do ask that Now I got a dirty look from her this weekend during the snow that we were all suffering from

Sydney was digging through her drawers. We're into her drawers, and she just kept finding teeth. And then I kept hearing her say, there's gotta be more teeth in here. And she's rooting through looking for more teeth. I know exactly what this is, yep. Yeah, I don't have a heart to throw them away, but I had to put them somewhere where the children would never discover them.

Right. And they just landed in my underwear drawer. Cause that's where you put all the things you don't want anybody finding. Because they're not going to look in there. They're not going to look in there. So, but they're just loose in there, which does, it does make me look like, I don't know, a serial killer or something. This is fewer teeth than I would expect in my underwear drawer.

Yeah, you know, you, I just hope that your teeth and your underwear didn't get mixed up. And then it was like that movie, you know What's the move? I don't know Where it's a it's a the woman has a teeth and a vagina. Yes It's a movie it's like a real movie I think it's called teeth. Yeah, yeah, I think it's called teeth. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it was old school too. I think it was called teeth. Yeah, teeth.

Yeah. I think it's called teeth. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, so be careful for that situation. Yeah, watch out. Well, no, so I don't have testicles in my underwear drawer. They don't, I don't keep them there. Sure.

They're in a lab somewhere, both of them, because the second time around I had also had to have the second testicle removed, which was a more harrowing experience, because I wasn't quite sure what to expect. I had to like, do I bank sperm? Do I get a prosthetic testicle? I ended up nodding. I'm just going ball-less. What I've learned is that testicles generally are kind of overrated in a lot of ways. I'm sure they are.

Yeah, I mean, they're great for having kids, right? But, but you know, you know. How many times do you want to do that, you know? Exactly. And all the rest of the time they're just dangling. Never again. Never again for the rest of my life. No.

Twice and done. Twice and never. That was us. Twice and never again. But you know, supplemental testosterone, there's like a ton of different options now. And so, you know, you can live a normal life. Well, so for those who aren't medical, I didn't realize, because I'm not a doctor, I didn't realize how many things testosterone does.

You only ever hear about it in like one or two very specific, you know, contexts. But it's like very involved in your just overall health. Like your mood, your energy level. And like your bones. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's, it's, it's really important hormone and it's, you know, easily replaced. Yeah. Kristen, can you talk a little bit about your experience through this when you are with someone who is like a medical professional. Like I know that when I talk to Sydney, I'm always kind of wondering like, are you toning this down?

Are you making this like more comfortable for me to hear? Are you like dumbing it down? So I'll get it. Like how did you all sort of like bridge that communication? Like make that communication work between the two of you. And like, do you think that has been applicable to the work you've done since in science communication? It's a good question.

If anything, I feel like it's the other way around. Like I'm asking him questions that he's like, it doesn't matter. Why are you asking this inane, like very specific detailed scientific question? You're very detail oriented. Yeah, and my graduate program, I went to grad school for social psychology

and cognitive neuroscience. So I had to have quite a bit of biology and took a med school class. So, I have just enough to be able to like, just enough to be dangerous, I guess. I can follow along and understand, but I'm not gonna know all the ins and outs. But I feel like I kept up pretty well.

I was used to doing FMRIs on people's brains, so even when we went in for the scans to find out whether it was cancer or not, I could see what, I could tell what I was looking at and all of that. So I don't know, I think I annoy you with the questions more than you dumb things down for me. Well, and I was learning a lot too, because I'm an ophthalmologist. Yeah.

That's totally different type of ball. Like that's not the type of ball I'm normally talking about. About the same size though. Very similar actually. Um, but, uh, so, so yeah, it was a lot of this stuff was new to me as well. So we were learning a lot of it together and what the surveillance schedule was like and what we can expect after it. It was honestly a lot of, especially with the testosterone stuff, like that. That's been the hardest part.

Because it's a controlled substance basically. And so the whole insurance and help him, that's a whole can of worms to get into, right? But, you know, it's just very frustrating. Well, and it's been like seven years, I think now, of trying to find the right dose and the right delivery method to get him the levels that he needs. And in the meantime, his PMS has been like worse than mine has ever been.

So, you know, it's- It's never been more under control than right, than at this point. Yes. We figured it out. Yeah, we are finally making progress. But yeah, it was a process. Well, what I learned from talking to my urologist,

actually talking to a lot of urologists, so going to speak at different conferences, I've spoken at a couple of urology conferences, and I talked to some people who've been in practice for over 30 years, and they said they have never, like one person had seen one time in their entire career someone who had two primary testicular cancers, one in each testicle.

It's extremely rare for that to happen. Usually it's just one one and that's it. One and done. One and done. One and done. I had two primaries in both, which I didn't realize was as rare. And so that makes it a lot harder

to get the right testosterone levels. Yeah, because he just needs way more than most people do. Yeah, yeah. Sure. Because I still have one. Well, plus I'm just, I'm trying to get huge. I'm trying to lift. Yeah, you can see. Because I still have one. Well, plus I'm just, I'm trying to get huge. I'm trying to lift. Yeah, you can see.

Really. He's very bulked. I'm using this to my advantage because when I'm gonna be 60, like I'll have like quadruple the testosterone of my peers because I'm already on the juice. I'm already on the juice. They'll come to you for the juice.

Do you have any extra to do? That's right. Tell me how to deal with the juice. That's really interesting. I understand those struggles. I provide gender affirming care here in West Virginia. There aren't a lot of us who do. And so I understand the insurance struggles.

I know the people who do the prior offs for our state Medicaid now. Like when I call, I'm like, oh, hey, it's me again. Testosterone. Yep, same old, same old. Because I have to go through that process every single time. And it is such a struggle. And it's also an area of medicine where I feel like

we're still evolving our understanding of like dosing and what is the best schedule and the best amount. And it's individualized for different patients. And so there's still so much we have to learn there. And it can be really challenging to find just the right thing for that patient. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break. We'll go to the building department. Alright, let's go.

The medicines, the medicines that I still need my card for the mouth. And I'm Jordan Morris. We're real comedy writers. And real friends. And real fucking cheapskates. We say why subscribe to expensive streaming services when you could stream tons of insane movies online for free? As long as you're fine with 25 randomly inserted super loud car insurance commercials. On our new podcast, Free with Ads, we review streaming movies from the darkest corner of the internet's bargain bin.

From the good to the weird to the holy shit, look at John Claude Van Damme's big ol' butt. Free With Ads, a free podcast about free movies that's worth the price of admission. Every Tuesday on Maximumpun.org or your favorite pod spot. Hello everyone out there, thank you for coming to our service. We are ready to heal you. We are Ross and Carrie, we are faith healers. Yes, you there. Yes, sir, you have a spirit of... Not listening to enough podcasts.

We have the solution for that. We can cure you. You should listen to Ono, Ross and Carrie. Hallelujah. It's on maximum fun. I couldn't have said it better myself. Yes, ma'am. Yes, you there.

Gladys. A spirit of boredom. Oh my goodness, we have the solution for you. It is to listen to the podcast. Ono, Ross and Harry. Oh no, Ross and Harry. Okay, and we're back. Thank you, Justin and Sydney. What an app.

Can I say, by the way, any of our listeners, this has been very interesting to us. Outside of the US, we started to get these emails when we had the billing department asking why did we have a billing emails when we had the billing department asking why did we have a billing department and what was the billing department? That was a very interesting thing as we started to do this show like, oh, cause we billed you here.

Yeah, we had a paper for it. Here in this country. It's wild, yeah. Here in this country, we bill you for that. And so we have a billing department, but it's very interesting to get emails like, why would a doctor have a billing department? Right.

What are you talking about? It would be like a firefighter showing up and be like, I need 80 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to get it. Well, why do you have this? All right. So we were in residency.

Yes. So, so we I'm in residency. I've lost both my testicles. We have two children. Uh, I have some sperm in the bank. Like very expensive process, by the way. It's, it's, it's a whole thing. But, um, and then I graduated residency, got my first job,

which is a job I'm still at now in Portland, Oregon in private practice ophthalmology. Love and life, it's great. Finally done with residency, get to start paying back all my student loans. Kristen is, you were still working remotely. Yeah, I kept the job that I had in Iowa, but just pivoted to remote work instead.

And then at this point, I was starting to do the Glock and Fleckin thing. So that started as a sec, I was a second year resident at Iowa and it was more just, I couldn't do stand up anymore. I didn't have time to like go and do like open mics

and comedy sets and things. So I used Twitter at the time. That was really the only thing I was on as kind of a surrogate for stand up. So just telling my jokes on Twitter, generating a following, moved to Portland and then shortly after, not shortly after, I guess a couple of years later,

things were going great. Hold on, hold on. Twitter's where the name came from, cause he was still anonymous at that point because he was in residency and he didn't want to jeopardize anything. I was afraid of ruining my medical career. As many trainees are whenever they're putting themselves out

there on social media, because there weren't a lot of people that were trying to do kind of what I was doing with combining being a physician and like comedy. And so, you know, I did get a lot of pushback. You know, a lot of people who are just like, oh, doctors, you can't be saying stuff like this. You can't be telling jokes. You can't.

That's not professional. I got a lot of unprofessional accusations. From the same demographic of person for the most part. And I'll just move you to your imagination of what demographic that was. You know, it's just the old guard. It was, you know, cause that's how, that's how physicians, people are growing up

revering physicians and they're this, you know, you know, professional deity almost. Exactly. You put them up on a pedestal and so to see someone like, you know, making fun of themselves and other specialties, you know, it just, yeah, people accuse you of like, you're going to erode the trust. Yeah. Doctors, you know, listen, there's a lot of doctors on TV that are already

doing a killer job of that and do any of those help whatsoever. Exactly. Dr. Oz existed already. I mean, just on the planet. By the time I was doing my thing. But it was a lot of fun and I remember by the time I left Iowa, I had like almost 10,000 followers on Twitter. I was very proud of myself.

I was like, wow, look at this. Look what I've built. This empire I've built with my 10, I was no other social media platform, it was just Twitter. And so me and my family and my 10,000 Twitter followers we went out to Portland, Oregon and it kept doing the pretty much the same stuff, social media wise, and life was good.

And then the pandemic hit, you know, and that came with all kinds of challenges. We closed down our offices and that's when I started. I all of a sudden had all this time on my hands because as what- There's no testicles to be feeling, so. Right, you're the most intelligent. It frees up 10, 20 minutes every day.

Yeah, that's a lot of time to talk. What am I gonna do with my, well, you know, as other physicians were being like redeployed to the hospital to help during the pandemic, as an ophthalmologist, I was not asked to do that, which probably surprised nobody. Shocking, right?

And so I started making TikToks. I started making, you know, that was like really, or that was when TikTok, I don't know if you guys remember or were on TikTok at the time, but it was, it just blew up. Yeah. Because everybody's at home and has nothing to do. Everybody got on. Yeah, I remember Sydney a lot of times during the lockdown,

like hurriedly coming in to show me one of your TikToks and showing it to me. And like, so it was wild, like to see you all pop up. Well, I also really appreciated the overworked, underappreciated family doctor. That is a very controversial character. That was, that's the character that got me into the most trouble with people actually.

Yeah, you'd be surprised. I had a lot of, when I first started to make videos with that character, so this character, in case people don't know, it's a family medicine physician who is disheveled, appearing, glasses askew, overworked, underappreciated. That's the point of the character. It's like, look how hard this person's working

and is not getting the appreciation they deserve. Well, I actually got, every time I'd put out a video with this character, I would get a couple emails from people, from family physicians saying that I was pushing med students away from family medicine. Like I'm worsening the primary care crisis. Oh, no, I mean, I can understand why someone would like

knee jerk that, but the thing is it's the profession itself that is pushing students away and lying about it. Lying about it doesn't help anyone. And I mean, I try to always, because I work in academic medicine, and so I try to always be very honest with students. This is what you're getting into. And try to help them see like,

I still am glad I made the choices I made. There you can find a niche sometimes. So it's not everything all the time. I don't know. I mean, I didn't take it that way at all. For me, it's celebrating that we do all this stuff. I do feel like we get undervalued a lot of the time for it. And most people felt that way.

Like, this was just a few, it was just surprising. I didn't get that kind of pushback from any of my other portrayals of all the other specialties. Something about, and what I think it was is just like family medicine, primary care in general, just gets stepped on a lot in a lot of different ways. So I feel like just there's a little bit more sensitivity around people poking fun at primary care just in general. And so I think there was just some sensitivity there that I tapped into. But yeah, it's like, I wasn't saying anything

that people didn't already know. It was, I was just highlighting it. And I felt like you were sympathetic to family medicines challenges. Yeah, that's the whole character. So that I felt like that definitely came through. And when you partnered that with your depictions of rural docs, because the entire state of West Virginia is considered rural by definition. So I work with lots of rural docs.

And so with all my rural family docs, we love what you do and your depiction of what we do out there kind of with limited resources. And you know. Yeah, those are very popular people like the rural myths. I love those. Where are we at? I guess we're in 2020, right?

Okay, yeah, 2020. This is 2020. 2020, it's like March, I think you get on TikTok. Mart. Yep. April. We get our first mortgage. Yeah. We put it on the bottom of the house.

This is great. Mid-30s at this point. And we finally are able to buy a house. Yeah. Very fortunate. And then, um... And then May. Is May.

I, wait, we went to, it was right after Mother's Day. You're thinking he's gonna be getting me some really nice gift. No, I woke up and I found a lump in my third testicle. There was... A twist, no one saw coming. Plot twist. No, we went to bed. On Mother's Day.

On Mother's Day. And at about four o'clock in the morning I Started like gasping for breath in my sleep Kristen it woke Kristen up. Well, you should tell the story. Yeah, I was gonna say why are you? Yeah, you were like fairly there. Okay? Yeah Yeah, no He right he started making these really weird sounds and I was 445, so I was like being awoken

from a very deep sleep, right? And so I was a little groggy and confused. First I thought he was just snoring, so I kind of am like, you know, just quit it. Trying to push him over to get him to stop snoring, but he doesn't respond at all, which was a little unusual. So then I started like kind of like, trying a little harder, like slap his face a little bit. So then I started like kind of like trying a little harder, like slap his face a little bit, not slap, but just kind of, you know, and he didn't respond to that. And so then I started getting really

concerned because the sounds also were like picking up in, they sounded like, I don't know, they just had this like urgent, panicked, desperate quality to them. And so I called 911 and this is May of 2020 and he's making these like respiratory sounds. And so obviously I'm thinking this is COVID related. Sure. We hardly knew anything about it at that time, right? So, but I called 911 and I remember as it was ringing, I don't know why I did this, TV maybe, I don't know. But I put my head on his chest and it registered

that his chest is not moving and I don't hear anything. But it didn't like sink in. It was just like a fact. Like I was going through some sort of like mental checklist from who knows where, but I called 911 and she's the one, the dispatcher is the one that told me to start doing CPR. Like I had no, I wasn't thinking anything about his heart despite just having listened to it and not heard anything. So that was, it was just so bizarre. So I did 10 minutes of CPR.

Um, I couldn't move him off the bed. He's six, four, and I'm like five, three, if I have my shoes on. And besides that, I have like, I have symptomatic hypermobility and I had just had a cervical disc replacement a couple months before and I was kind of still recovering from that next three. And so I couldn't move him and have any confidence in my ability. I was worried about whacking his head on the nightstand and making everything even worse, right? So I just did it on the bed. This was poor timing on my part. Yeah, it was really rude. Yeah, very rude. I was gonna say, at least it was technically after Mother's Day, because it was before

I hit him. Yeah, right. It was 10 minutes. She had 10 minutes of continuous chest compressions. Wow. Yeah. Which for those of you who are not in medicine, it's, that's an extremely long time to be doing nonstop chest compressions.

Yeah, well, like I said, we just had a mortgage and we had two little kids and then actually, you are not leaving me here. You're not today. No, no. And I guess- My dead body, not yours. And Kristen, please feel free to ignore this question if it's too tough to talk about,

but how often do you bring this up in arguments? Because for me, it would be 100% of the time. Like 100%. It's just a standing, like a blanket. It's just a verbalizer. Understanding, yeah, just the look I give him. Like I don't, you don't win arguments anymore. It's just a standing, like a blanket, understanding. Yeah, just the look I give him. Like I don't, you don't win arguments anymore.

If when your spouse saves your life. Yeah, that right is bad. You can maybe get out with your dignity. So talk to me about a podcast. How did that, how did you all like hit upon that? Where did that start? Well, I mean, that, that started about a year and a half ago. You know, we, we, we talked for a while.

It was like, we have such a, so many interesting things that we've experienced in life. Like we, we should do something. We already had the, I had this, the social media following already is like, we could do something together. So we talked about doing a podcast, but like many things in life, it sounded like a lot of work. And so it was very easy to just like, not do it. But then, you know, we were approached by this, this group of podcast network called Human Content. That's the producers that we're with now. And they have been in the podcasting game,

the media game for quite a while, and they were starting their own thing now. So it was a group of three people, and they reached out, they had seen my content, and was like, hey, we're starting this podcast network, do you wanna talk through some ideas? And so just right timing with where we were, where they were, and we ran with it. And it's, you know, we called it knock, knock high with the Glock of Fleckens because the videos that

really catapulted my social media presence were these first day of rotation videos with med students where every single video I'd go in and be like, knock, knock, hi, I'm the new med student. So that was the origin of the title. And it's been a lot of fun. We've learned a lot, like doing a podcast together and just doing something that's more long form, having fun, we haven't talked about divorce yet. Yeah.

Well, honestly, so it's working pretty well in terms of, you know, yeah. Well, he actually doesn't like to talk, which is funny because now he's a podcaster, uh, but this is the way that I get him to talk to me. It's like, you have to do it now. Cause we're recording and people are depending on you to do this. So I'm a little introverted by nature. So it's, you know, so I really just trapped him into talking. But I feel like we could learn a thing or two from you.

I mean, you've been doing how long have you guys been podcasting? 11, 11 years this June. Yeah, that's so like early on. You seem like reasonably happy with each other. We used to do it. Well, we used to when we started, we were doing a TV podcast called the satellite dish. Well, before that it was a two and a half men review show hosted by people that hadn't watched

until Charlie Sheen left the show. So we started with Ash and Kutcher. It was called losing the sheen. We made it eight episodes before we were like, I don't want to watch two and a half men anymore, sweetie. So we did a TV podcast for a year after that called satellite dish. And then we got into the medicine. And maybe that was, uh, I guess it was residency is what made that,

because I would have been in residency at the time that we were doing that. And that was one, we just didn't, I didn't have time to watch TV. And two, kind of what you alluded to earlier, I was trying to be careful about what, like the me that we were putting out into the world while I was simultaneously going through my training. And so, Solbones was like the perfect solution for that. Like, we'll do this show that's very like,

it's buttoned up in that way. We're talking about medical history, we're making jokes, but it's fine, it's professional. Have you all gotten to the point yet in working together on something like this where you, and I'm cheating a little bit, I know because I heard you talking about it on a recent episode,

where you realize that as the two co-hosts and also the two co-parents, you have no, there's no backup plan for any of it. Like you were talking on the show about getting a note slipped under the door, which was cracking me up because we, like literally the day before with the snow day, similar like scenario, we told our kids like, if you just go to the play, just go play for a half hour.

If you could just play for one half hour, we will literally give you anything. You won't. Like we'll do anything, just one half hour. Well, even cave on screen time, I'll like hand them an iPad. Yeah. Just watch the YouTube videos that I wish you weren't watching because I don't think they have educational value. Just watch them, go for it.

Watch the unboxings. Yeah, how do you balance everything? There's a lot of bartering. So I definitely relate to that. It's gotten easier as they've gotten older. Well, and I think it helped. You have younger kids than we do. And so, I mean, if they were like,

if we were trying to do this when they were like five. Pause, because we did. Well, not podcasting, but I have been working remotely since 2017. Of course, yeah. From my home. And we did virtual kindergarten in that time period. And that was when I had someone else as a boss. So I had to, you know, so I think that helps a little bit

as they're just so used to it. I mean, the young one, that's all she really knows. She was two when I started working remotely. So we've had to set a lot of ground rules for what it means when this door is closed and what you can do, what you can't do, where you go if you need help and we're not available, you know, whatever.

And by help, I mean like they want a password or something. They want a password. Unless bone is showing, you don't interrupt us. That's, no, I don't know. Right, no, but, but yeah, I think that helped. We had some ground rules set to begin with and then yeah, now they're older and they understand what a podcast is and, you know.

Sometimes they'll still like the bust in though and like, you know, we have to redo something, but it happens. Our problem is our kids really want to be on them now, especially our oldest. She wants to be on the show, she wants to do her own show, she wants to be on the show, she has great ideas. She'll bring me ideas for Sawbones.

Like we don't need daddy for this one. Well, it's the family business for you all. Sure, right. Yeah, they might as well learn the trade, right? Right. Exactly, put them to work. Starting in my IRA, there you go. There we go.

Well, I want to ask you, you've been in the TikTok games games you were kind of alluding to pretty early, like I'd say early adopters, somebody who bubbled up pretty early. It is a platform that is from my perspective and we've only really made a push, trying to like make more of a push into it in the past year. So it seems like the platform is almost like,

like the most, what was it, I wanna try to say. It seems like the most notable thing about TikTok is how inscrutable the algorithm is and how quickly it evolves. Like to what extent are you as a content creator trying to like anticipate that and say ahead of it, or is it just more about like making one feels, yeah. I don't, in fact, it's probably to a fault.

So like I'm, I'm, I don't think about the algorithm at all. I literally, and that's the thing, like that you see, is this happens with, with all social media platforms now, but particularly with Tik Tok and YouTube. You'll see people make videos about like, well, what's best for the algorithm? How do you end and Mr. Beast, who's like the biggest, you know, content creator in the world? We're familiar. Yeah, right?

Like Jimmy, Jimmy, to his friends that have been forced to watch all of his videos a hundred times. Jimmy, like, he's gone into detail about like how he, like obsessively has tried to tinker with his content, his thumbnails, whatever it is, to appeal to the algorithm. And you can see the effect it has, right? So you can do it. It obviously it works,

but I don't have the bandwidth to like, like I could barely just make content and I have time to do that. Feel like I have time to do that because I still work four days a week as an ophthalmologist. So I still have that career. Which as an ophthalmologist is in fact full time. That's full time as an ophthalmologist.

Absolutely. And so no, no, I really don't think about the algorithm much at all. I just I make what I think is is fun content to make. And it's always just been his hobby and it just sort of accidentally became big and then we're like, well, I guess we have to do something with this behemoth that we now have. And so then we like turned it into a business

and I'm running the business side of things and the marketing and so I'm always like, hey, what if you did whatever, like this is trending. And he's like, no. Like maybe you actually should have a YouTube thumbnail instead of just some random screenshot from your video which is exactly what I do what I have been doing and but it's yeah it's it's been a I didn't get into this be like oh I'm gonna make this a career right it was it really was my creative it was a surrogate for doing stand-up because I've

loved doing I love making people laugh. And once I started making the videos, I was like, oh, this is a whole creative outlet that I could really run with. Not a lot of people are doing this in medicine. And so I did, I feel like I came along at the right time for video content. Yeah, a lot of it was just dumb luck.

I mean, which is like a lot of the opportunity. And, you know, so it's. Well, I think it's interesting. My job wouldn't have existed when I was like, I didn't want to do what I do when I was a kid because it didn't exist, right? And I feel like this is, it has allowed people to make a, I'm able to make a living making a much more specific type

of humor, and more specific type of humor and more specific type of content than I ever could have, you know, 15, 20 years ago, right? Like, I don't have to be, you know, the Smothers Brothers, like, doing something that appeals to, like, a huge wide range of people. I can make something pretty specific that I know is going to hit with a certain number of people that I think is only allowed, like only the internet has allowed us to do that. Yeah, for sure. It helps, I don't know.

It's helped me from getting burned out, doing all this stuff to be able to continue just doing the things that I find interesting, you know, and I not doing it because like when I make a skit or something, I'm not thinking, oh, the people are gonna love this. It's something like, oh, I think this is funny. I'm gonna make this and I hope people like it, but it's really like an outlet for me and people just happen to really enjoy it. And so, and I think that's the key is like,

and what I tell people, you know, when people ask me, like, how do you get started doing this social media stuff? We're like, I don't know. Like, well, there's a lot of that. There's a lot of, I don't know. I don't know how it happened, but there is a lot of like, you gotta do it for yourself first and foremost, because then it's just gonna be like a chore, you know. Yeah.

That's 100% true. That's, I mean, when we finally settled on the show that we've been doing for a long time now, it was because I was really interested in, we didn't learn any medical history in my med school. We knew like nothing, like occasionally get a little anecdote, nothing. So it was something I wanted to know about.

It was something, we love just, I don't know, I love telling Justin about stuff I learned and him making jokes about it. Like that was just, it was natural. It was this sort of offshoot of what we were already doing. So I really think that's the key. And then you'll kind of select for people who are like, oh, I also love that.

And then you can kind of build that relationship with that audience over time. But I would love to know from you, Kristin, you've all been hosting this show now for every year. And you talked to a lot of people in the medical profession and adjacent to the medical profession. Are there conversations that you feel like you wish people were having more surrounding medicine

or things you wish people knew, more people knew that you wish more people were talking about? Sounds to me like you're asking me what my soapboxes are and let me tell you, I have so many. Okay, great. Please. So, okay, we have this, I guess, have an odd perspective having been adjacent to medicine this entire time, right? Like we met in college before he was even in med school and then I was along for the entire ride. So I had this kind of like insider outsider perspective of what goes on in medical training,

what goes on in medical education, what goes on as a practicing position. And then on top of that, we have the patient side. He's been a patient of some serious things. I am a patient of some serious things. I am a patient of some serious things. And then, I have this piece that I call it a co-survivor of his cancer and his cardiac arrest because those things, and same with med school,

anybody who's been partnered with somebody in med school or even as a practicing physician, you know all of that stuff happens to you too. And that is not really talked about. So that's really my main goal in using any kind of platform that we have is, for me, is just pointing that out, that those people are there and they have needs too

and they are affected by the medical system in many ways, just as intensely as the med student, the resident, the patient, the specifics are different, but it happens to them too. That's one thing. Another thing that I really just have always harped on is just, you know, before you are a doctor, right, you are a human. And I saw that goes all the way back to watching him go through med school because I saw that they are learning how to take care of human bodies and they are not allowed to take care of their human bodies, you know, like you don't go to the bathroom all day. You probably have to

skip lunch. You're not drinking any water because you can't take a break to go to the bathroom any day all day. They're not getting enough sleep and there's all this stress. There's just all the expectations of the medical training system on them. I always had to remind him, hey, it's okay if you have a human need because guess what? You're human. You know, like the system you're in is going to tell you that's not okay, but let me remind you that it is. And so I do that too. I wish people would talk more about that. And that's a big part of what we try to do together too, is just highlight the humanity in medicine, whether that's, you know, on his side, it's kind of the humanity among physicians and nurses and other kinds of clinicians.

And for me, it's for the patient family side of things. It's one of the best things about ophthalmology. I get unlimited bathroom breaks. That's true. It's huge. Like, I can, whatever I want, I can go to the bathroom. Yeah. And so...

I'm very jealous of that. I don't have that. Yeah. Before we let you go, well, I just want to tell you, I'm 43 years old, everybody in my family has glasses and I don't. So I guess I'm wondering like, how cool am I? I guess would be the question or like,

it's like an amazing medical. You're a medical marvel. Marvel, that's a good, yeah. You're a marvel. Have you considered that your father is not your father? I'm just gonna throw that out there. No, he's on podcast. Anybody who's listed the podcast that he is on with us

has zero doubt that he is in fact my dad to a fault. I think if that's something. Yeah, if the looks don't give it away, the sense of humor. Yeah. I am also a non-glasses wearer. Yeah, he likes to rub that in a lot. Which is unusual.

He has never had an eye examine his entire life. No. That is true. He's gonna tell you it exam in his entire life. That is true. He's gonna tell you that it is true. What are you doing? Are you sure you don't need glasses? Right? I see just fine.

I just love to stand close to words. I'm just gonna say, when I got my glasses in sixth grade, I remember the first day I went back to school and went, you all could see the board. I wonder why they put stuff up there. I couldn't see it and I assume nobody could see it. And I just thought, it's so weird, teachers write stuff up there, nobody can see that.

Yeah, leaves on the trees, when I got my, I was like, wow. Wow. There's like individual leaves up there, not just a big green clump. My personal statement for Althomology is like, I have perfect eyes and I want other people to have that joy.

So we've already talked about the podcast. We are gonna be appearing on an episode of the podcast, so people can check that out. Where can people find more of your work? So you can find, we're on pretty much all the social media platforms. You can just search for Glock and Fleck and it's just easy. Just like so.

Everything can be found on our website, GlockandFleckand.com. We have a newsletter, which is what we just launched that not too long ago. It's very exciting because it brings in all the stuff we're working on. So all the skits that I've posted recently, the podcast, we go into some deep dives on some medical related topics as well. So if for people that want more email, you can sign up for a newsletter. I just felt like he was putting his face too many places.

I was like, we've got to just make it a one stop shop for people if they want to see your stuff. Exactly. And then our podcast and knock, knock high with the Glock and Fleckens. And we have interviews with people that's what we do once a week. And then I also do these knock, knock, I episodes where it's just me and I go into, I pick a topic, some random I related topic and just nerd out for

about 30 or 45 minutes. So I've been very surprised at how many questions people have about eyeballs and how many people are willing and want to listen to eyeball stuff. I gotta admit, like I thought that was gonna be a flop. Yeah, I heard on one episode, Will, you saying like you were incredulous that people listened to the show during their work commute. And this, and it's honestly, man, a first, I've listened to a lot of podcasts in my life. It's the first time I've ever heard a host say, what are you doing here? I have to make this. You don't have to listen to it.

What are you doing with your life? Well, Chris, thank you so much for joining us. Make sure you check out all the guacamole guns work because it is, if you like this show, I mean, you're pretty much as close as we can get to perfectly selected to enjoy everything they make, so make sure you check it out. That is going to do it for us for this episode. Will and Kristin, anything you all want to plug

before we head out? You just did some live shows, is that right, or you're going to do? Yes, oh. Yeah, we did a little test run of live shows in Southern California and basically it's called Wife and Death and it's a comedic slash serious, tragic comedy. Multimedia stage show. That's right and so we're planning it went really well. I had a great response from people we're

going to planning on going around the country at some point, it's kind of in the works. So yeah. Come on out to West Virginia. We're working on 2024 dates right now. So those will be up on our website once we have them. Exactly. And just thank you so much for having us. Yeah, thanks for being here.

Thank you all. Thanks to you for listening. Thanks to the taxpayers for using their song Medicines as the intro and outro of our program. And thank you again to you for listening. We sure appreciate it. If you want to pass it on the show to somebody else, SaulBoneshow.com is the URL.

If you want to send us an email at SaulBones at maximumfund.org, that is going to do it for us for this week. Until next time, my name is Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head.