Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Legends of the Hidden Breast

Episode Date: May 7, 2018

This week on Sawbones, Dr. Sydnee shares her breastfeeding experiences and discusses some of the stigma surrounding the practice in America. She and Justin also take some time to shatter breastfeeding myths. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saabones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We saw through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines that escalate my cop for the mouth! Hello, everybody and welcome to Saw Bones, a Marinal Tour of Miscite at Medicine. I am your co-host Justin McAroy. And I'm Sydney McAroy. And I'm Justin McAroy. You already said that. Uh, Roy. Wait, if you're waiting for Cooper to introduce herself, I don't think she's going to. Oh, sit on beat. Life on the road.

Must be so hard. Travel to exciting places. Get to see all your fans. Life on the road is tough said flying an airplane without children under four. I actually did like I don't remember let me fly the airplane that would fly in an airplane. He said flying the airplane flying an airplane flying an airplane. I remember there was a time where the confusion there was a time when I used to know what it was like to fly without children, but I don't. I don't remember that anymore. You know, they have kids have changed a lot of aspects of your life, Sydney. You could say you can make

the argument. That's true, Justin. That was very well done. I don't call it. This episode of Salmons will be a little bit different. One of the most frequent emails I get is questions about or kind of thanks for discussing the topic of breastfeeding. We've done an episode on breastfeeding before, but I looked back to see, I knew it was a long time ago, and I looked back to see how long ago it was. And believe it or not, it was in June of 2014. And what's notable about that for me is that we had our first child, our daughter Charlie in August of 2014. Yeah. Can we went on a real tear of parent and maybe related topics for a while that you were pretty good.

We did and I'm surprised that me of the past felt so comfortable tackling breastfeeding before I'd done it. You know what we do? Let's talk about one of those stuff that we haven't experienced personally. That's very true, that's fair. But I will say that as much as I think, if you, I mean,

I'm a physician, I have to counsel people on lots of things that I haven't necessarily experienced firsthand, but breastfeeding has really been something that doing it has helped me understand it better and has helped me to navigate some of the pitfalls and to understand why there is, I don't wanna say a stigma, but why it seems like breastfeeding is something that can bring controversy. Yeah, it's weirdly, and I've even seen that sort of second hand. It's interesting how much, a lot of vitriol, I think, weirdly.

interesting how much a lot of vitriol, I think, weirdly. Now, multiple sides of the conversation for various reasons, and it can leave a lot of parents feeling really bad about themselves, unfortunately. And I think I understand all that a lot better now having been through it. And I feel like when I now counsel people who have given birth and desire breastfeeding on how to do it and what to worry about

and what to look for, I feel like I'm a little better at doing it now than I used to be. And so since we get so many emails about it, I thought I would just kind of talk about what that's like, breastfeeding in 2018. Well, and since 2014. Yeah, and you're going to talk about your experience in them.

And the second half, we're going to talk about some myths related to breastfeeding. Exactly. And try to address those. And like I said, if you haven't listened to it, we've done a whole episode on the history of breastfeeding. Yes. Came out in June of 2014, if you're interested in that episode titled breastfeeding. Easy to find.

There you go. Google. So I started breastfeeding, like I said, in August of 2014 when we gave birth to... It would have been a while if you had done that. Charlie. Honestly, it would have been... But I knew that I wanted to for a long time. Do you want to talk about what your sort of thoughts were up until that point about breastfeeding?

It, sure. A lot of it came, if I'm being very honest, a lot of it came from my training as a physician from medical school. I can't say before I learned about breastfeeding as a, you know, as a doctor in training, I can't say before I learned about breastfeeding as a, you know, as a doctor and training, I can't say that I had a strong opinion on whether or not I would. Honestly, because I probably hadn't thought about it that much.

You know, I knew it was a decision I would make someday because I knew I wanted to have children, but I never had thought about what I would do. I didn't, it wasn't something I ever discussed with my mom or any family members because as we, we kind of talked about this in the first episode about breastfeeding, in the US, breastfeeding really kind of fell out of favor for quite a while. And so there, there are quite a few generations of people who didn't breastfeed because either at

the time it was thought to be not the best option. For a while it was perceived as not the best option for your child. That if you are an attentive parent, an attentive guardian, you would feed them formula instead preferentially because it was, I mean, it was the better, you could buy it. Right. It was kind of that mentality. Sure. Why, if something for free cannot be as valuable as something that you buy? If you breastfed, and I think you talked about this a little bit on the last,

I was at the idea that breastfeeding was a main poor people did. Yes. Because they couldn't afford formula. Exactly. And so formula feeding was a mark of wealth did. Yes. Because they couldn't afford for. Exactly. And so formula feeding was a mark of wealth and wanting the best for your child. Right. So there are generations of people who didn't breastfeed for that reason. And then therefore they didn't really have the family support, the social support that helps you learn how to breastfeed, because it can be very challenging at first. And once you leave the hospital,

not everybody has resources available to them, to coach them through those early days when it's challenging. There certainly are those, and we've talked about them before, things like the LLHLEG. And I mean, our most local hospitals will have lactation consultants

that you can continue to see after you are discharged. You know, you don't have to be a patient in the hospital to see them. Right. It's worth noting though that like making an appointment to see a lactation consultant or really anybody, but like it is a huge hurdle, especially if you don't have that support system there in your life to help you with like the baby and getting the baby, like it's a big deal, like it's not easy. Because babies eat a lot at first and you can't just say, well, I'm seeing the lactation consultant next week, I'll figure it out until then. You know your child needs to eat and it's scary if you think they're

not getting enough. And if maybe their weight isn't rising as expected. And, you know, that's a really scary place to be in. And so, for that reason, a lot of people abandon it pretty quickly because they're trying to honestly do what's best for the baby and they feel helpless. I learned a lot, obviously, about breastfeeding while I was in medical school and the benefits of it. And as a result, I was pretty determined by the time we decided to start our family to do so. And I think we've talked at length about Charlie's birth, nothing went as planned.

And I think I became even more determined after the C-section and Charlie went to the NICU that I was going to make this work. It was something that I still had available to me as an option that I wanted in my perfect birth plan. And I was determined to make it work. that I wanted in my perfect birth plan and I was determined to make it work. And I was, I've always said, I was just very lucky. It was, it was the one thing that according to my birth plan, not that this is the ultimate right, but right for me, this is the one thing that we got right kind of from the jump, Charlie and I. Now, it's worth noting and I think we should probably, let me, hey, let me step in here

as a person who doesn't breastfeed. Tell everybody that it's not the, I don't think we're going to, I think probably talk very possibly about breastfeeding, but I want to make it clear. I hope you that you will make it clear because my opinion is not particularly valuable in the arena of breastfeeding that if you are not able to or your circumstances have somehow prevented you to or whatever, it's still perfectly safe and fine and healthy and like no reason to feel guilty also. Well, and you hear these competing kind of mantras and I think that they are complimentary. I like to say that everybody who's trying to advocate for healthy babies, we're on the same team. Whatever your perspective is, whatever organization you represent. And some people say breast is best, as in breastfeeding is the best way to, you know, provide

your child nutrition. And then other people will note that Fed is best. I think that those two things can both be true. At the end of the day, we are so lucky to live in a time where we have formula that is a completely safe and effective and nutritionally sound way of feeding your baby. And it's absolutely fine. And if you choose that or if you simply, you don't want to, you can't, you try and it just doesn't work for you or you try and it does work and then you decide you don't want to do it anymore.

Whatever your reason. We just want to give some good press, I think. Press feeding, press feeding got kind of bum rap. So we're just here to say like also, press feeding is very cool. Well, I think it's one of those weird things that is probably dependent on where you live because I had once I started breastfeeding Charlie of course in the hospital that was mostly embraced although I was constantly not literally right because I think that would be an opportune time. Don't please don't embrace me while I'm breastfeeding I'm in the middle of something.

There's these fun fact fun breastfeeding fact numero. Don't hug her while she's breastfeeding. Thanks, I'll hug you when I'm done, it's fine. But mostly in the hospital, everyone was supportive now with Charlie being in the NICU. I was surprised how many people tried to tell me always just gonna be too hard, don't bother. Oh, that's the best way. They might have actually known you very well

and had wanted it to go great for you and wanted you to never stop because that is absolutely 100% the best way to guarantee that that happened. And outside of the hospital, I don't want to say that anybody was not supportive. It's just I did like I said, I didn't come from knowing in my family had really, that I was close enough to talk about it with, had breastfed, and I didn't have a lot of tips. There were some people who were able to kind of give me a little feedback here and there

if I had questions, but for the most part, I felt like I had to figure out a lot on my own, and the other thing is, I think in the area we live in, I don't see people breastfeeding out in public very often. And so public breastfeeding was very scary for me at first because it wasn't something I had seen growing up around here. It was, I knew it was fine.

I knew it was fine. And I was ready to fight that fight if I needed to. Like I don't yell at you when you eat You know a hot dog on the street. So why the heck are you yelling at my baby for eating what they eat? Outside, you know, I mean it's what why should I eat? Why should my child eat in a bathroom? Do you eat in a bathroom? No, I Have eaten in a bathroom. Let's back up. I'm just saying like I had all these arguments and I have eaten in a bathroom. Let's back up.

I'm just saying, I had all these arguments, and why are you sexualizing this breast that is made for feeding this child? What's your problem? Maybe you could look elsewhere. There's lots of places to look. I had all the arguments in mind, but it was still very intimidating for me

to breastfeed in this society, in this time, in this place in history. You think, okay, let me ask you this. It's funny as we see these like, at the airport, you see them now, and I bet big cities, you probably have a lot more of them, but the booths. The booths, now I was trying to go with the Port Mantau

for Boob and Boob, they're just over there. I forget what they're called. Boob booths, they're like momvana or something like that. Something like that. They're really nice. I haven't been in one, but I understand they're really nice. It's like a weird thing where it's like cool to see, but also sad to see. You know what I mean? It's like kind of both, right? Well, you, you don't understand though. So I spend a lot of time thinking and talking about this, um, not just as a physician

counseling patients and as a person who is still breastfeeding, but I am in various Facebook groups with other, actually, other Dr. Moms and some exclusively, like exclusively devoted to breastfeeding. And so we discuss these things a lot. I like to hear other people's stories. And the, there are quite a few people who prefer some privacy when they're breastfeeding for their own comfort. And that's fine.

If you don't want to pull your boo-bout in public, that's fine. No one should feel like part of breastfeeding has to be advocating for it constantly with your body. That's not necessary. I don't, I'm at a point where I don't care. It doesn't bother me. I do not feel embarrassed. I do not feel uncomfortable.

There are certain places. If there are a ton of kids around and parents, sometimes I'll be a little more modest because I don't wanna have to have an angry parent telling me to put my boob away and then me having to tell them why they're wrong And then there's kids in the and your boobs and because you didn't notice it's just I would feel like I was right But I also don't want to I don't want to have that argument in front of a bunch of kids

So there are times where I'll be more modest But for the most part it doesn't bother me now if you feel differently and you would appreciate a nice little booth with comfortable seats and you know some, I don't know what's in there, a TV, probably something, something. Maybe some outlets, that would be nice. Plug in your phone, charger laptop, whatever. Maybe a barista, like some bottles of water. Sure. That would be nice. Whatever's in there.

If you prefer that, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. I just think that the I'm an emperor. I want to make you go in. There's no race in this. We have mystery. It's just not me. It's a puzzle. You have to crack. Just duck your head in.

I almost did it. And I thought like that's like a bad look all around. Because one of two things is going to happen. One of them would be like, Oh, excuse me. Persuade best feed. I'm going to leave. Sorry. Or someone who needs to rest feed is going to open the door.

And like, uh, what are you doing in here? And I'll say, I could ask you the same question. And they would say, well, I'm going to leave sorry or someone who needs to rest feed is going to open the door. And like, uh, what are you doing in here? And I was saying, I can ask you the same question. And they would say, well, I'm about to best feed. And I would say, well, that's a very good reason I will give you the room. Everything is spits spitting span in here. I was just reconnecting the AV cables to the TV that is probably in here. Okay. Can I ask you, Justin,, were you uncomfortable at all when I first started breastfeeding? Did it make you uncomfortable? Because it never bothered me. It felt, it, it, my instincts, I think, kicked in and it felt very natural to me from the jump. I'm not saying it was easy. I'm just saying it felt fine. It felt like what I was supposed to do. Okay. There are some, you do not understand how narrow this livers of light for me, just in Tyler

McAroy here are in this conversation to be honest and not worry about saying the wrong thing because I really want to be, I really will defer to whatever. But let me tell you why I'm asking. And while I give you a chance to formulate your response. Okay. I wandered when when I started breastfeeding in front of you and our family. I knew it was hard at first for my dad. Yeah.

When I would breastfeed in front of him, I could see him like my dad was always a very kind of modest guy. And the idea that here I was sitting there with my shirt half down. I think that probably, but now he, it doesn't bother him now. Or if he does, I mean, he doesn't want to get her covering it on. Yeah. Well, no, I mean, I don't think it bothers him at all now. It never bothered my mom. I, I was shocked at how my sister Riley, who at the time, gosh, when Charlie was born, that was three years ago. She was 14. 13. 13.

She was actually 13 when I would try this born. She was probably the most comfortable and cool with it from the jump and acted like it was no big deal. I was very impressed with that maturity. They are. They are. You know, I don't know how your brothers felt. I think now they wouldn't feel uncomfortable.

Now they've been through it themselves, but I always wondered. I always wanted to look at people and go, do you feel uncomfortable? Because it's okay if you do, but then that's even more uncomfortable. So relationship with your boobs had to evolve. That is what I will say. And I will leave it at that, but I had some growing up to do.

I had a little growing up to do. What has been the, I'm gonna put some questions to you, so you're not having to model up. What is the biggest surprise to you since you started breastfeeding? What has surprised you the most about maybe if people's responses or your feelings on it or any of that? The biggest surprise to me and we'll probably talk about this a little more in depth is

I used to say I would very much like to breastfeed for the first six months. That was my goal was to make it six months. And I would be willing to continue up to a year. And I was absolutely dead set that that's when I would be done. That was my plan. And that obviously didn't happen. And I'm fine with the fact that I'm... We'll talk about it. I'm still breastfeeding Charlie.

And I'm fine with it. And I'm not embarrassed to say it. And I don't feel weird about it. I'm still breastfeeding Charlie and I'm I'm fine with it And I'm not embarrassed to say it and I don't feel weird about it That that has shocked me about myself because I really I really thought I felt a different way about it until I did it As far as responses from other people You've never had it I have a power play Like I think people are more intimidated than they are. At least my sense of it has been that people are more like, whoa, what a boss. She's really running, running stuff.

Well, I've been very lucky. No, I've been very lucky. Sometimes I'll read horror stories, especially about people who work and breastfeed and say, I have to pump and they have to store their milk and things like that. And I'll hear things like, my boss won't let me store my milk in the fridge at work, cause it's a biohazard and things like that. And I just... There isn't an evil you mean,

you're an America, it's a resident evil. I have never, I go to my office and I put up a sign that said, um, pumping in progress and, and pump. And my good friends would knock on the door and say, it's just me, Sydney. Can I come in while I'm doing this while you're doing that? Not I don't care. Sure.

Yeah. I'm, you know, whatever. And then Nancy Doug, the one that I at the office who everybody hates would do that, but you'd be like, not now, Nancy Doug. I know your name. I mean, I did, it didn't bother me. But you also have the best brain surgeon there, so it was very important.

And he had a patient on the table, but he was still nasty. So you had to make the choice between saving a life. And like, Nassie Doug, get his piece out of the whole. So I just put my white coat over my chest and continue to pump. Yes. No, but I stored my milk in the fridge.

People would laugh as I would be walking up and down the hallway all day with more bottles of milk. And I mean, no one ever gave me a hard time. I think maybe that's what shocked me most about other people. I was so uncomfortable and so intimidated going out in public and talking to people at work about it and I thought, oh, I'm gonna meet all these barriers and all these people who don't understand why I'm doing it. And that really wasn't what I experienced.

Even people who didn't do it and didn't really understand it. And maybe even thought I was a little weird for how long I've been breastfeeding are supportive or at least they're not hostile. Do you wanna talk about some of these breastfeeding myths? Yes, I do, but before that, let's head to the building department. Let's go. The medicines, the medicines that ask you make my cards for the mouth.

Myths here, Sydney, about breastfeeding. At least I think they're all myths. I'm going to, it's going to be hard for me to say myths over and over again. Okay. I have a cold. Misconceptions. Misconceptions. Oh, this kind of a good one. Oh, wives tales. Okay, you know what I'm talking about. Lies. Has that folklore? Old lies. Old lies. Old lies. At least I hope they're all myths because I got them from all around the internet and my own brain. So here we go. Are you ready?

Yes. Sydney, is it true that people with small breasts can't make enough milk? No. No, that's not true. You got to have more of it from me than that. Well, breast size has nothing to do with whether or not you can breastfeed. And your bigger boobs can't store more. It really doesn't.

It has to do with the like the ducts in your milk production and how much stimulation your nipples are getting. Right. No, it's not. You're thinking of breasts as if they're big bags of milk and it's a system. And no, it's a system of ducts, ducts, like quack ducts, like ducts, glands. And no. And then there is, there's surrounding fatty tissue, but no, there is not, it's not a storage facility for milk. You can breastfeed

just as well with small or large breasts. It doesn't matter. And pregnancy changes your breasts a little bit too. So some of us may be... That's all that I had to make, because I have... Okay, I miss. Okay. Babies will reject the breasts after they've had a bottle or vice-evoisa. No, not necessarily at all.

It is important the way you introduce a bottle the first time. Let's say that you are starting off breastfeeding and then like myself, you plan on going back to work and you'll need your child to be able to take a bottle when you're not available. You want to wait a couple of weeks to introduce the bottle. Honestly, a lot of babies, even if you introduce the bottle after a few days, may do fine, going back and forth, but if you really want to be certain, it's best to wait a couple weeks and then introduce a bottle for the first time once they're really well established on the nipple. Just to make sure that you don't create nipple confusion where they either can't take

the bottle or they get used to the bottle and then have trouble going back to the breast, it's the same idea with the pacifier It's usually recommended that you wait a little bit before you introduce the pacifier as well Just to make sure baby can go back and forth between these various Nipple shaped objects Is the true Sydney that breastfeeding is a good form of birth control This is man. This is a good misconception to tackle because if you don't know the truth, um, could be catastrophic.

Yes. So while it is true that because of, we'll say like the hormonal milieu, the hormonal situation of your body while you're breastfeeding, it is less likely that that you will ovulate, meaning that you wouldn't get pregnant because there's no egg to be fertilized. It is not impossible to ovulate while you're breastfeeding. So it's not foolproof.

You are less likely to get pregnant, sure, while breastfeeding because you're probably not gonna ovulate all the time, but it is definitely possible. So I would not rely on breastfeeding as a sole form of birth control. I wouldn't either. If you need a good sort of example of that, uh, Sydney is holding her, her name is Cooper Macaroy.

And she was defo born. Was that he was still breastfeeding? So an hour pro-tracted three year long episode of Mythbusters has come to an end. Mythbusted, I'm Jamie and this is Adam. Which is a really good example. You are most likely to not ovulate early, like right after birth and early while you're breastfeeding. The longer you breastfeed, the kind of less, I hate to use a word protective,

but the less inhibitory towards pregnancy, it becomes. But I would not rely on that solely. I would, if you don't wanna get pregnant, I would use something else as well. Is it true sitting that breastfeeding will make your kid dependent? No, no, not at all. Actually, there have been studies that have shown kids who

breastfeed to be more independent. And in no way, clingier or needier or something that you were considering developmentally negative in any way. So no, it is totally safe and and fine to breastfeed your child or not, but there is no worry about that. Only the is another myth, which I'd probably need to say because that's always done but still I'm gonna say this here I think is a myth. I'm clarifying because I'm in a little embarrassed to say and I thought this one was true. So only people who have given birth can breastfeed. Like specifically, the parent who gave birth to the maybe is the only one who can breastfeed.

No, I mean, historically, a good example of why this is a myth is that there are wet nurses. So wet nurse, there was a time when, especially like a person of upper society and upper class person would not breastfeed because it was kind of unseemly and there was a lot of stress on them to appear to get, to look like they did prior to giving birth as quickly as possible and not to be unclothed. There you go. unclothed. You know, in any polite society. So you would have a wet nurse who was usually someone who had given birth and breastfed and continued to breastfeed and maybe breastfed their own child as well, but also breastfed

your child. Modern day, it is possible to induce lactation using certain medications. With some people, I was in not- Yes, not everybody. And it's not again, it's, I mean, once like breastfeeding, it's not 100%. Not everybody is, everybody who wants to or attempts it is going to be successful in breast feeding. There are cases where no matter how many times you try and you do everything, you can,

it just doesn't work. It won't work for everybody, but you can induce lactation. Uh, let's talk about pump and dump. Because this is one that like as recently as the after our first baby like I still thought was true. Yeah. So the pump and dump myth, if you're not familiar, is the idea that if you are a parent and you are breastfeeding and you decide you want to have a few alcoholic beverages, that the best way to manage that. You need a minor 10 or 13 or 14.

I'm just going to say no matter. Plow. No, no, maybe. No matter who you are or whether or not you can or want to breastfeed or have children, please don't have eight or nine or 10 or 13 drinks. Please. It. Please. That's not good for you. It's too late for me anyway.

That's a bad idea. I've got to start it out. It'd be a full life. No, but let's say you want to go out and have a couple drinks and you're nervous about the alcohol that will then be in your breast milk. Because there is a transmission of alcohol from the bloodstream into the breast milk, it is important to note that it's incredibly small, first of all. That's the first thing you should know. The amount of alcohol in your bloodstream, the percentage, is equal to what's in your breast milk. So your .08%.

Think about gravity. If you think about like if you think about like a Miller or a Bud Light or something having like a five which I just use it basically for five percent I'll call content you're talking about point 0.08% percent is like a very low that would be yes it's like less than O duals level of not that you want to give your baby O duals but you know what I'm talking about right it's actually less than orange juice orange juice naturally for men's to a certain level of not that you want to give your baby or tools, but you know what I'm talking about. Right. It's actually less than orange juice. Orange juice naturally for men's to a certain degree, so it's .09%.

Wow. Yeah, there you go. But and this is not me advocating that you drink and then breastfeed. What I'm saying is, no, no, don't give your baby orange juice. No, formula or breast milk, please. But what all this means? More gatorade if they've been playing sports. No, please do not give them gatorade.

The alcohol is being transmitted from the bloodstream into the breast milk as long as it's present in the bloodstream. Once the alcohol is no longer present in the bloodstream, it's no longer present in the breast milk. So if it is, you know, five, six hours after your drink, or if we're talking the next morning, after you maybe you did have kind of a bender, something like that, you did have three or four drinks. No, that's not a bender, what do you know what I mean?

You did have more than, you know what I'm saying. Yes. The alcohol is out of your bloodstream, so it's out of your breast milk. It's not stored in there. It's not like you're now storing bags of vodka in your chest. Even if you don't call breastfed or maybe it's not going to hurt. Like while you were like drunk, it was like I heard him.

Well, generally we advocate not to breastfeed while you're drunk. More because it was a physician and breastfeeding advocacy societies. It's dangerous to try to care for an infant period when you're drunk, whether or not you can breastfeed. Correct. So the same would go for you, you don't breastfeed. Please don't take care of our babies while you're drunk. That's just a general rule.

You're more likely to fall asleep when you're drunk, and if you're holding a baby that you're breastfeeding, that's very dangerous. So that's the bigger concern, honestly. But my point with this is, please do not think, oh, there's beer in my milk, I need to pump and dump the milk. No, just wait. And then breastfeed later. Or don't. I'm over here running the numbers, people. I said he can't say this. I am. The baby will be fine. Listen, it's point eight percent. It's fine. What I have told what I usually tell people is if you want to have a drink with

dinner, that's fine. It's fine. Just have your drink and don't stress about it. It's not going to harm your your child, but the big thing I want to advocate against is the pumping and dumping because you're wasting breast milk. That could be it. You're wasting the breast milk. Don't do that. I mean, unless you are just so engorged, unless you are completely drunk and you're so engorged and you can't, and it hurts so much, but you're too drunk to breastfeed a baby, then fine.

By all means, you can pump and if you want to dump that, although you really don't need to, but if you'd feel better about it, but you really don't need to pump and dump, just wait and breastfeed later. Is it true, Sydney, that breastfeeding is bad for your breasts? No, breastfeeding is bad for your breasts. Okay. No, some people are concerned about like changes in the shape of their breasts over time.

Pregnancy does that, as I already mentioned. Breastfeeding really doesn't change that. So, you know, don't worry about that. And it can actually be protective against breast cancer. So, it's good for your breasts. Is it true that you should stop nursing when you get sick? No, you, you, unless you are so sick again that you can't hold the child to breastfeed them, you know, please don't like vomit on your child. All right, welcome to Justin's doctor where I will feel

this one don't puke on your baby. Don't puke on your baby. If you are so sick that it is detrimental to you to try to breastfeed, if you are not in a position to be able to provide breast milk, then obviously don't. But if you're worried about because I'm sick, I'll give the sickness to the baby through my breast, through the breast milk, whatever. No, that won't

happen. And actually, you're probably forming antibodies against whatever you've got, and then you're going to transmit those to the baby. So for instance, one time I was sick when it's Charlie, when I was breastfeeding Charlie, I had an upper respiratory kind of infection thing. I did wear a mask because I didn't want to cough in the sneeze on her. So I wore a mask while I was breastfeeding Charlie, I had an upper respiratory kind of infection thing. I did wear a mask because I didn't want to cough and sneeze on her. So I wore a mask while I was breastfeeding her and I washed my hands a lot, but I still breastfed. Um, is it unsafe to lose weight while breastfeeding? No, not necessarily. It's always important to monitor that you're still making, you're still making milk, you're

still producing because there is, you can lose weight too quickly or not provide your body with enough calories, and then that could be detrimental to milk production. But overall, as long as you're doing it in a safe, healthy manner, it's okay to try to lose weight while you're breastfeeding. Lastly, and we touched on this, but to return back to it at the end here, all babies should be weaned before their first birthday. So I think this is, this myth is probably more prevalent in the United States than in a lot of other places, because our breastfeeding rates are kind of low and certainly our extended

breastfeeding rates are very low. Worldwide, the average age that a child is weaned from breast milk, so they stop breastfeeding rates are very low. Worldwide, the average age that a child is weaned from breast milk, so they stop breastfeeding, is between age three and four. So worldwide, it's not unusual to nurse your child past that. I've read that from like an evolutionary biological perspective, the human animal, could conceivably be breastfed up till age five. You could make the argument that they are meant to be breastfed up till age five. You could you could make the argument that they are meant to be breastfed up to age five. Not like a consumer because they can see we've been breastfed for a very long time.

Well, you can breastfeed in forever. We're out of adulthood. But if you're looking at us as animals, when is it beneficial and and and a good idea up to age five still makes sense. And this is not me saying that after five, it's damaging or detrimental. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just kind of looking at it as his animals. You know, we were, we were dogs. This is what we would say. Do you, as a doctor, Sydney, do you look through a lot of things, to the lens of if we were dogs, what would we do?

I think about us as animals a lot, probably more than the average person. probably more than the average person. So you don't need to, you don't need to wean your child. I mean, really at any age is the short answer. Unless you don't want to breastfeed anymore. Yeah. Then by all means, wean your child, you should, you're not forced to do so. Everything passed a year of age is called extended breastfeeding. There are, I mean, like I said, well, why that's not unusual. So I don't even think that term is really accurate. There is nothing damaging to your child to continue to breastfeed them past the year. If you are only breastfeeding and you're not giving them other foods at that point, that's

not a good idea. You should be introducing other foods. I mean, you should have, you probably did already at six months. Now you don't have to, but you really need to at this point. If you haven't already, your kid who's a year old, you need to be introducing other foods. You need to be introducing other things that they can eat and drink. That's just part of a normal, healthy toddler diet as they age. But breast milk can be part of that too.

And there is nothing dangerous about the act of breastfeeding, about like we've talked about, the idea that a kid will become too clingy or too dependent. That's not true. There's no studies that support that. And there's some benefits that we, I've actually seen firsthand, when Charlie was sick,

even as a one year old and a two year two-year-old, an hour-to-three-year-old, and maybe didn't want to eat or drink anything, I could keep her hydrated with breast milk. She would always want a breastfeed. No matter what else she didn't want to eat or drink, I could keep her out of the emergency room needing IV fluids by breastfeeding her. So I felt really lucky that we were still doing it for that reason. I think that traveling was a lot easier. We traveled a lot with Charlie when she was little. And I think that always having me there and the comfort of the breast made it a custom to new surroundings pretty quickly. And there's been some evidence of that that maybe those kinds of things can be helpful. I think it's worth I'd like to own up to that this has been I it without

still being too much into our personal lives. This has been a struggle for Sydney and I I mean from my for me I am not particularly proud to say it, but I had, I never had any struggle with your breastfeeding in public or anything like that. As Charlie got older, and this is just societal, right? It's nothing to do other than that. I started to feel like uncomfortable that somehow we had like infantilized her or that is the, and that is like messages that I had gotten from society and from the media. So I'm not like, and I would be lying if I said 100% that I don't feel some tinge of that that I have to push back against.

To to this day. And there, there's some really, you know, when I, when I got close to having Cooper, I started to get a little nervous about it. Because at that point, Charlie wasn't nursing very much. And as you can imagine, I wasn't producing very much. I still did produce some breast milk while I was pregnant, but pregnancy decreased my production significantly. But it didn't matter.

Charlie wasn't doing it so much for nutrition as for comfort and bonding. But after Cooper was born and I was definitely making milk again, which I will say that, my milk came in a heck of a lot faster the second time around and I produced more than enough. So there's no, I don't have any of the worries about production that I did the first time. I Charlie started to try to nurse some more and that is one thing that I've read You know if your child is doing it to try to get your attention That's something I'm not saying that you have to stop breastfeeding, but that's something I try to push back against a little bit It's to show her that she doesn't have to do that to get my attention

There are lots of ways that we can be close and cuddle and I can talk to her about things and show interest in her And it doesn't have to be that because she sees Cooper doing it and she thinks, oh, that's how I get mommy's attention. So that is one pitfall. And then- And then I would like to mention is that we definitely had to struggle with it when it came to sleep training

that we had a really tough association between the way I fall asleep is to nurse. And as she got older and was like, what we were wanting her to like sleep in her own bed throughout the night, at the start we really had a hard time breaking the association between, I need to fall asleep so I need to be nursing.

So that was, I think that was definitely one of the struggles with like, doing it later. And it's, and it is, a lot of people will ask, like, is it safe to continue nursing Charlie while you're now nursing a newborn? Well, now almost three month old. It, yes, it is safe. It is fine. It is not, there is no problem with continuing to nurse your toddler and nursing a new baby.

You do need to think about it. You know, it is something that there are times where Cooper will have gone on a nursing marathon, and so I will feel like throughout the day, I'm just not not quite as full as I normally am, and I'll be a little more app to try to distract Charlie if she wants to nurse, so that I'm maintaining a supply for Cooper that day. So it's something I pay attention to. I always make sure Cooper's full first before I let Charlie nurse, but it's not dangerous and it hasn't, I mean, Cooper's growing just fine. She's a big girl. I will say also sometimes Cooper, because her sister is still nursing. I think Cooper sometimes gets a little more milk than she bargained for. You just remember that scene in UHF where Stanley Spidowski's like, who wants to drink for the

fire hose? Then he opens fire hose like it. It's a little bit like that. Sometimes Cooper gets a little overwhelmed. I have a vigorous letdown. That's the way to put it. I remember at the point we are the vigorous letdown. Let's rock. That's my man. The let down is when your breasts fill with milk and the milk starts flowing naturally. And it's not because the baby is stimulating or the pump is stimulating your nipple in case that wasn't there. It's a great show on Netflix called the let down. Yeah.

I think it's out of Australia. I would highly recommend that show. It's just about early, early planning. Says, or anything else you wanted to talk about breast milk before we bring this to a close? I would just say, um, I really, it means a lot to me when people say that thanks for talking about breastfeeding because it helps to normalize it. And that was a lot of what I wanted to do by talking about it more was reinforce that,

um, it obviously breastfeeding can be, is, it's not can be is a completely normal healthy way to feed your child and bond with your child. And that it is fine for it to continue up to Charlie is now over three and a half years old. And I'm still nursing her. And I'm not embarrassed to tell people about it. I don't do it in public quite as often as I used to because it's just like in the mall people look and sometimes I just don't feel like dealing with it. But so I do it at home a lot more Charlie than I used to but I'm not embarrassed to say that I am and she's fine. There's nothing wrong with her for it and there's nothing wrong with me and we're not weird. I'm not ready to say that I am and she's fine. There's nothing wrong with her for it and there's nothing wrong with me and we're not weird.

I'm not ready to go on the cover of Time magazine. This is just not me, but I don't say it, but I just, I wanted to normalize that because I think extended breastfeeding people start to get squeamish about even if they, they're totally fine with breastfeeding and newborn. It's fine. It's, it's okay if you don't,

nobody has to breastfeed, everybody's gotta do what's comfortable for them, but if you don't, nobody has to breastfeed. Everybody's got to do what's comfortable for them, but if you make this decision, at least know that Sydney Macro is out here doing it too. So that's gonna do it for us this week. A little bit of a different one. I hope you still enjoyed it. And please take a moment to share the show with people

you care about or leave us a review on iTunes that sure does help or tweeting about the show. We're at solbones on Twitter. We have also a Facebook page if you search solbones on Facebook you can see us there like us there. We can email us. Yeah, go for it. Solbones are maximum fun. Do it. Yeah, we don't say that email enough. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time.

So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time.

So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time.

So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. So I'm gonna have a short time. from me, Justin McRoy, and mainly Sydney, and also her sister Taylor Smirral does illustrations. You're going to love this book. I think it is great. And I think that everybody who buys it is going to be like really jazzed about it. We're really excited about it. Eight or nine times. It is a, it is a labor of love. I hope, I hope you enjoy it. It is a labor of love. I hope I hope you enjoy it. It is a labor of love. Please pre-order a book and We appreciate it very much and Thanks to taxpayers for use their song medicines is the intro and outro And we will be at the Columbus podcast festival next week. Yes, this

Saturday May 12th we're gonna be at the Columbus podcast festival We're going to be at the Columbus Podcast Festival. Tickets I believe are still available. We're going to be there with still buffering quarter pointed all on Saturday. Saturday, yes. Starting it, 730. Yes, Saturday at 730. We're kicking it off.

Go get tickets. Go to Columbus Podcast Festival.com, get your tickets, come see us. It's at the short north stage. It's going to be a lot of fun. Tickets are like $20 a day for like a day pass. It's $20 all day for a bunch of podcasts or 40 bucks for a weekend pass, which is like four days of podcasts. So what a bargain.

Please come see us. We come to Columbus. Yeah, go to Kosa. See our show. Yes, it's a great, it'll be a great day, educational and edifying. And that's going to do it for us folks. So until next week, my name is just a macro. I'm Sydney McRoy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head.

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