Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Mumps

Episode Date: February 15, 2019

This week on Sawbones we return to the MMR vaccine, specifically the "mumps" part. We'll also meet the brilliant mind behind the vaccine and the tragic reason he never gets the credit he's due. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. I'm your co-host Justin McAruid And I'm sitting here. I know don't don't do that anymore sound like I was throwing up my own name don't do that

It sounded like you were mumbling Or maybe mumpsling I was I You know I was gonna go there with mumbling and then you took it a step further. Mumpsling. No. I was very curious as to where we're going to talk about mumps this week. I guess we're just launching right into it.

There it is. And I was very curious as to where the name mumps came from. And I was trying to find an answer to that. And the best answer I found, this was actually my clever transition. But then you said mumps a lane. Is mumble lumps. Mumble lumps. That's fun to say. Mumble lumps. Is that it because it caused big lumps in your cheeks that made you mumble. People call that mumps. I don't know that that is true, but that was the best guess hypothesis.

A poor man toe or a star says a poor command toe of mumbling in lumps, mumps, mumble lumps, mumps. Yeah. Got it. But I wanted us to talk about mumps this week, Justin. We've talked about measles before, which is the more, I'd say like the more interesting, topical thing in medicine right now, measles, right?

Yeah, because we've got an outbreak in Washington, is it right? And there are other places, I believe it was, I actually think there was one in New York before the one in Washington, which has made all the press recently. But many states are seeing a rise in measles because of lack of vaccination, largely. There's also concern that, and this is fair, there is waning immunity as we get older. So we are seeing measles cases in people who have gotten vaccines. Most of them, in case anybody's interested, most of them are in kids who have only gotten one vaccine because

you're not, that's why we get boosters, right? That's why the vaccine schedule has, there's a logic behind it. Sometimes you get one and then you get another dose of it later and it's because you need to boost the immunity and make sure that you're completely protected and you're numbers of people who are immune go up with each booster. So a lot of the patients have only gotten one measles vaccine and so they just haven't got, they're not old enough to have gotten the second one yet. They're not behind. They're just not old enough. But we are seeing like people who were fully vaccinated much, much later down the road, maybe getting measles. And so there's some concern that maybe we need another booster as we get older.

So I may have all the vaccines you can get me. Well, me too. I mean, I would happily do that. But the problem with all this, of course, is like if we were all vaccinated, this really wouldn't be an issue now, would it? Hmm. Hmm. But we've done a whole episode on measles.

If you're interested, that you can check that one out. But if you get vaccinated against measles, you also probably get vaccinated against mumps and rebella at the same time because of the MMR, the vaccine that most of us at least in the US get. Nobody's getting like independent measles mumps rebella vaccines for the most part. So I thought it would be good to talk about mumps as a reminder of all the things that this wonderful vaccine can protect you against. Also, it's also, I think, for sure,

mine because both her kids just got, or not this one, but Charlie got a booster, is that right? They both got in memoirs yesterday. Yes. Charlie needed her booster because she is four and Cooper got her first one because she is one. Can you talk, before I want to get to the topic, but real quick, can you talk about what that nurse told you?

Because I thought that might be a good PSA for everybody, which about parents not assisting in that. Yeah. So both of our kids got their vaccine yesterday. Our oldest Charlie is four and between four and six, you get what a lot of people think of as a kindergarten vaccines, the ones you get before you start kindergarten. She's not starting kindergarten, but she was due. So she actually had to get four. And then our youngest Cooper is one. So she had to get five,

which is no fun. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say that because I know they're safe and effective and important. It's easy for me to see my kids get shots. It's hard. And they both cried and they hurt. We know they don't hurt as much as kids think they do, but they do hurt. And the nurse asked if I was going to be in the room and I said, well, I'll help you. We don't need it because she said, do I need to get somebody else into holder while I give the shots? And I said, no, no, no, I'll hold her. I want to be here. And she said, well, a lot of parents don't. And I said, why? And she said, well, they either hide in the corner or they leave the room because they don't want to be associated with it or they don't want to see the kids cry, or whatever.

And I said, I'd rather, and this is my personal preference, this isn't judgment, but it is something I would say think about. If you have kids, or if you're thinking of having kids, or whatever, think about. I want our kids to know that I'm part of this decision, that Justin and I decided that they need these vaccines because we know the evidence says they will be much safer and less likely to get horrible diseases or die if they get them. And it's a hard thing, but it's important for them.

And we do a lot of stuff our kids don't like because it's the right thing for them. And so I wanna be their part of it. I'm holding them, I'm comforting them, I'm telling them it's gonna be okay. I'm hugging them when it's the right thing for them. And so I wanna be there part of it. I'm holding them, I'm comforting them, I'm telling them it's gonna be okay, I'm hugging them when it's over, I'm drying their tears, but I'm also helping the nurse make this happen.

Right. Because I know it's the right thing for them. And it's hard, but it's the right, so often the right thing is a hard thing. So. So let's talk about mumble lumps. Mumble lumps. I don't know if that's where it comes from,

but I hope so. I'm gonna go with that. I hope so. And thank you, Rory and Charlie and Greg and Chloe and Anthony for suggesting this topic. Mumps is a viral illness. It's a virus that spreads. It's caused by a paramaxo virus, in case you're interested

in what kind of virus. Ooh. People want to know that kind of thing You after you get exposed there's an incubation period from 16 to 18 days and then as much as 25 days So you can you can be exposed to it and not know you have it quite yet for quite a while now people tend to Think about when they think about mumps. I think everybody pictures like the The kid with the bandage think everybody pictures like the the kid with the

bandage around their face, like the thing, like the bandage tied around in the big cheeks, like looking like Jacob Marley. Yeah, yeah, like Jacob Marley. Why does he have that? It corpses. Oh, so they're mouse in hand. You know what? I should have known that. I'm impressed. Pulled it completely on my butt, but a bed is true. Sounds true. Dark, if that. Sounds true.

It feels true when I say it, and that's the most important thing, right? That's the most important thing. The most important thing is that it feels true to me when I say it. Rarely right, but always certain. That's me. Yes. My family want to. Mumps is best known for that. So the paraded glands, which are salivary glands, are in your kind of at the angle of your jaw and your cheeks, but like further back, not right in the meaty part, but further back closer to your ear. Those get swollen when you have mumps, right? They get inflamed in swollen. And so you get those big chipmunk cheeks. And that's what I think most people

think of when they think of mumps. You can get fever and headache and muscle aches and you feel tired and achy and lousy. Now some people who get mumps don't get very sick, right? They get maybe they get a little bit of swelling, maybe just some of the symptoms, but they don't feel that bad. They get like a mild case. Most people recover completely in a few weeks with no complications. So for most people, it's a pretty benign, annoying, but benign thing to get. Now the problem is with mumps that one, it can be spread pretty easily through infected

either like spits, saliva, or through like respiratory droplets. So by coughing, sneezing stuff that sprays out of you, that can spread it, sharing food or drink. And then if you like, you cough or sneeze and it gets all over a table and then somebody touches the table, you can spread it that way. So these are not hard, it's not a hard thing to spread. And this is important because something that spreads pretty easily, even if the complications are rare, if enough people get it, somebody's going to get the complications, right? Statistically, you know, if you give it to enough people, people

are going to get complications. So while these are rare, you can also get inflammation of the testicles and inflammation of the testicles in some cases can lead to fertility problems down the road, not often, but it is possible. I'm very frustrated with you and our relationship in this program that you said inflammation of the testicles and then waited and stared at me as though, well, let's see. Let's see what he has for inflammation of the testicles. And then I'm frustrated with myself

if we're passing it around, but I had nothing. I opened my heart and my mouth and nothing came from the inflammation of the testicles. And I feel like that kind of low-hanging fruit, what I'm going to go with is it's not that I'm tired. Low hanging fruit. Hey, there you go.

It's that it's beneath me now. I'm going from a high-minded observations that something a little loftier, a little more obeying than inflamed testicles. So please, my dear, I'm so sorry to interrupt. Please proceed. You know, it was interesting. I asked both my parents if they had mumps

because this is not something. Tell what you did to your mom. Oh, I texted mom and said, did you ever have mumps? And my mom called and said, why, what's wrong? Do you think I do? And I said, no, no, I'm texting you. Why would I think you have mumps?

No, I'm curious. Because my dad had told me he had mumps and so I was curious if you ever had mumps. And she said, no, she didn't, at least she didn't remember. She said, if I did, it wasn't bad enough that I remember it. But she remembered that her brother did. My mom was one of many children. And she remember one of her brothers had it.

And that the doctor told him to make sure and stay laying down so that it didn't drop. What? Is that it didn't drop to his testicles? That's what they, that's what, that was the reference was that if you, the thought was if you lay down, it'll stay up in your cheeks.

And if you stand up and she said and like jump up and down or something, it would drop. Which of course is not how viruses work. But I think that's a really interesting thought. I like this is our show. How else would it get? How else would it get? How else would it get?

How else would it get down there? But this can in rare cases lead to fertility problems. It can also cause inflammation of the ovaries. Again, these are rare rare complications. But it's kind of like I always would tell patients, like here is a side effect of a med that you need to know about. It's incredibly rare, but if you're the one who gets it, you don't care how rare it is. It's important to you and this is why you need to be informed

to know about it. Doesn't mean don't do it. It just means you need to know about it. Well, you can get inflammation of the ovaries of the breasts even, you get mastitis, inflammation of the breasts. You can get severe complications like inflammation of the brain, which is called encephalitis, or the spinal cord men in gytus, again rare, but they can happen. And then it can also actually result in loss of hearing in rare cases. So there were cases of

mumps where afterwards the children had completely lost their hearing. And it doesn't come back. That's not something that resolves over time. So again, most people with mumps, because that's what I think I hear this argument against vaccine specific vaccines. A lot is like, well, what's the big deal? I always heard this with chicken pox. What's the big deal? You get chicken pox? What's the big deal? And people might have said that about mumps. What's the big deal? Well, for a lot of kids, probably not a big deal, but if your kid is the one who gets meningitis or loses their hearing or, you know, can becomes infertile afterwards, it's a pretty big deal. That's a pretty big deal for you. And if we have a vaccine that can prevent it, isn't that worth it?

Let's go for it. So when we look at the history of mumps, we have known about mumps since the time of Hippocrates, and we know that because Hippocrates wrote this description of mumps, that it seems like sometimes I'll stumble on something when I'm doing research that like a lot of doctors, like a lot of doctors really like to talk about this great description of mumps. The Hippocrates wrote. It's not, it's really interesting, because I heard all these people kind of like

waxing poetic about like, this is just a beautiful description. Like the perfect format, like we should all follow, you know, so that people know how to document things appropriately in the medical record, like show to all your medical students. But in, in 410 BC, he BCE, he wrote about swellings appeared about the ears in many on either side and in the greatest number on both sides. They were of a lacks large, diffused character without inflammation or pain and they went away without any critical sign. So that's very good. That's very good. That's, yes. I mean I yes, I would be impressed. I will say that if a medical student handed this

Hand in me I would say whoa you would think they were weird. Oh, no, I wouldn't you would That's how we wouldn't I wouldn't think you would I would be delighted and impressed. Okay I don't know You know me you would ask them to stop wearing a toga to work out. Well, I would say that is not appropriate dress for. That's also like the toga. There's so much fabric, like, same problem as a white coat, right? It's just a faux mite, just something else you can get germs on.

Let's just let's ditch the white coats and togas, please. Yeah. Anyway, so we've known about this for a long time, but we didn't, like I said, we didn't really know what to do about it. That's true for a lot of viruses. We tried a lot of stuff. Nothing really worked. People got better. Or everything. We congratulated ourselves. We congratulated ourselves. We blood people. They got better. We thought it was because of the fact that we bled them. But in most cases, since it was benign for many, many patients, it wasn't considered a big deal other than the few that would get these other complications.

But like a lot of viruses, we eventually figured out that the best, the best plan is not to try to treat it after it happened, but to prevent it before it could. Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah, so I want to talk about the development of the vaccine. Oh, okay. But before we do that.

Oh, Sydney. Let's go to the billing department. You would deny me this. Let's go. The medicines, the medicines, that ask you let my God before the mouth. Greetings. I am Pleck Dex Cetter Center contacting you from the Zix Squadron, which is frankly sort of crappy,

but I'm here on a heroic mission with my trusty crew, C53. A heroic feeling like an exaggeration, okay? Parts? Sure. And security officer DARR. Select, don't put me in your supercomputer recording. Well, and then we're all traveling aboard our trusty starship that our Jerry and Jade. Bargie. What? Sorry. I was just wide. Well, sweet. Hey, there. This is all in for it. I play PLEC and we are so excited to announce

that our podcast Mission to Zix is now part of the maximum fun network. Our third season launches on Max Fun on March 20, binge seasons one and two right now. That's mission to ZX, ZY XX said you're going to tell me about vaccines. Okay. So the the mumps vaccine that we use today. Now it's and usually like I said, the vast majority of people are going to get it combined with measles and ribella. I'm sure there are some, there's mumps vaccines out there somewhere independently, probably, but nobody's getting that. Of the other ones, indie mumps. Yeah, nobody's getting those. If they exist, nobody's getting them. It was licensed in 1967,

and I want to tell you about the researcher who developed it, because I don't think we've ever talked about this scientist on our show. And I felt very silly when I started reading about him that we hadn't. Okay. Have you ever heard the name Maurice Hilliman?

I've not. So his interest when it comes to like science probably came from the fact that he used to work on a farm and take care of animals a lot. And that was where his like interest in biology and science and all that kind of stuff But he used to work on a farm and take care of animals a lot. And that was where his interest in biology and science and all that kind of stuff came from. He grew up during the Great Depression on a farm in Montana.

And after that, he went to Montana State. He eventually ended up getting his PhD in microbiology and chemistry. This was a big, when he was growing up, his big goal was just to get a job like at the local JC Penny. He was hoping to like get off the farm and go work in a store and like be around people more. And then he ended up getting a PhD and working in a lab, which was not exactly where he thought he would end up, but he was very excited to do so because of his early interests in biology. In 1944, he joined the virus laboratories

of ER squib and sons in New Brunswick, New Jersey. And they were working on a vaccine at the time to help fight a certain kind of encephalitis, it's called Japanese bee encephalitis. And they needed it for the troops in the Pacific, this would have been during World War II. Okay, that makes sense. So they needed this vaccine. So he's going to say that seems like an extremely, extremely specific disease to be trading, but then when you said we needed it, where we needed it, that makes perfect sense.

Yes, it was a high yield for that moment in history. So he started off working on that vaccine and his interest in vaccines grew from there. So he started to kind of work on like characterizing different viruses and figuring out about like viruses changing and mutating because that that's all part of vaccines right, if vaccine, if a virus mutates a whole bunch that makes it harder to make a vaccine against it. Because it could change right, right. So you worked against one strain, but then it mutated. The best example of this problem is the influenza virus, which mutates so frequently we have to remix it every year. Exactly. So he kind of got into the idea of what these shifts and drifts and I won't get into what all that means, but can mean for a virus and can mean for making a vaccine against a virus. And this was really helpful when there was a new strain of flu in 1957 in Hong Kong.

And there was, there was concern because of this new strain of flu and nobody had been, this was, nobody had been like immune to it before. It was brand new, that this could be a worldwide pandemic and many, many people could die as a result of this flu. And so him and the researchers that he was working with worked like around the clock, like 14 hour days to jump on top of this and make a vaccine as quickly as they could, like this mass production of a flu vaccine, that probably saved hundreds of thousands of lives. I mean, it was still a huge epidemic.

69,000 people died in the US of this flu, but it would have been much worse had him and the other researchers not jumped on top of it and made this vaccine to protect people. So he was already doing a lot of great work on vaccines before he started working for Merck. Merck is where he did the work that probably impacts most of us today when we think about like the vaccines that he created and what which ones we get now. So he started working at Merck and I know a lot of people are going to go Merck. They're big pharma. They're Big Pharma. They're Big Pharma, yeah.

Yes. I am talking about Maurice Hilliman, a brilliant vaccinologist who happened to work for Merck and that is where the vaccines were made. Yes, I understand the problems with Big Pharma. I am not. Don't try to tell Sydney about the problems with Big Pharma. Trust me, trust me. I have.

Sydney has passed up so many free sandwiches. Yes. In. Trust me, trust me. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have.

I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have.

I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. I have. from Merck and he made a lot of vaccines while he was working for Merck. He developed more than 40 vaccines while he was working there. He worked on the measles vaccine. This was really interesting because much of the work that had already been done on the

measles vaccine previously was done by John Enders and we talked about that during our episode on measles. But the vaccine that they were using, the Enders vaccine actually still had some side effects. And that was one of the, you know, a lot of people talk about vaccines and side effects. One of Hillamann's biggest things was trying to make vaccines that were better, like a more elegant solution. Fewer side effects while still providing the protection that you need from the vaccine while still working. So, Dr. Hilliman and another Dr. Dr. Stokes started working

on a way to minimize the side effects of the measles vaccine. Initially, they came out with you would get a dose of this gamma-globulin shot at the same time you got the measles vaccine, and that greatly reduced the side effects But ultimately that was not gonna now you get two shots instead of one How much is the public gonna accept that even though the side effects were lower people were willing to do it But that wasn't they were trying to get more people to embrace the measles vaccine because they just put both them in a bigger syringe

Well, no Okay, it's not that it's not that the box here the box here the doctor I'm just a dumb with a great idea but both of them in a bigger syringe? Well, no. Okay. It's not that, it's not that simple. You're the doctor, I'm just a dope, um, with a great idea, I guess. But he did, he continued to work with the music vaccine. Why not? Well, we're also talking about,

so you're talking about like antibodies that you're putting in with live attenuated, so live virus that has been like damaged in such a way that it can't make you sick. And you're just going to put the antibody in. You'll humidify or dehumidifier next to each other. What happened? It's not that simple. But Dr. Hillman kept working with the vaccine. He, this was like a stopgap. They introduced this measure to get more people to get the vaccine. Because at the time, there were still like

500 people in America dying for measles every year. So and mostly children. So this was something this was urgent. So they started with this. Over the next four years, he kept refining the vaccine and eventually he found a safer strain of the virus that you could use to make the vaccine that would produce way less side effects and be much safer, but still give you the protection against measles. And that is the one we actually still use today. Now that, uh, that strain that he used, it could have been named for him. And you may have heard of Hillman. It could be called the Hillman strain, but it's not. It's called the Moriton strain. And you know what that stands for? What? He named it that for more attenuated

enders, because enders was the guy who made the original vaccine. And so he felt like he deserved the credit. Wow. I just think that was a very lovely story. He could have taken the credit. He didn't. His concern was getting the job done. And that was kind of like the mark of his when a lot of people talked about him when he passed away in 2005. A lot of researchers and scientists came out to speak because you probably haven't heard his name. Even though he is responsible for like eight of the vaccines, eight of the 14 routine childhood vaccines came from Hilliman. Wow.

You probably haven't heard his name because it just wasn't his MO. His interest was not in being famous or having a great deal of renown. His interest was in getting the job done and getting it done right. And they said that he could be a hard person to work with sometimes. He was demanding. He was, he was incredibly smart and efficient. And he

expected that of all of his employees. He actually kept a row of shrunken heads that one of his kids made for him for fun. But he kept a row of shrunken heads over his desk. And he said those were all the employees he's fired. And then murdered? Well, I mean, I think it was a, he was just a joke. No, I get it. Good job. Good stuff. It's just a joke. But he was, so he, and he, he apparently, he's a lot of profanity.

So he was kind of like a rough guy to work with. But it was because he was very exacting and demanding and really good at what he did. So in his career, he also was responsible for the mumps vaccine. And the way he made it, one night his five-year-old daughter, Gerald Lynn, was feeling sick. Woke him up in the middle of the night and said, Dad, I feel sick.

I have a sore throat and I'm feeling headache and I think I have a fever. And he looked at her and said, You look like you're getting the mumps. She had the swellings on the sides of her face and her and said, you look like you're getting the mumps. She had the swellings on the sides of her face and a product lens. She looked like you look like you're getting the mumps. So he was worried about her, but at the same time, he thought, hey, this is a great time for me to get a sample of mumps.

So he swapped her throat, put the swab, he actually drove to the lab first to get like the collection tube and everything, came back, swapped her throat, stuck it in the culture broth and the medium, drove back to work to freeze it, and then came back to take care of his kid. And that- I can imagine her just sitting there in silence through all of this. That is the strain that he started working on attenuating and weakening, that's what attenuating means, kind of weakening the virus so that it can't make you sick,

but it will produce the immune response we need, it will make your body make antibodies to it. So he used that strain to then develop the mumps vaccine that Jerelyn strain is still what is used, his name for his daughter, he didn't name it what is used his name for his daughter. He didn't name it for himself name name before his daughter. And that was used to go into the what would become the measles Mumps, Rubella vaccine, which was licensed in 71. The Rubella component was changed again in 79, but then that's pretty much been the same

since then. And it's funny because you can find a great, there's a great picture associated with all this of his, of Gerald Lynn's little sister getting her mumps vaccine. And she's kind of like squirming away from it and like a kid would do getting a shot. And Gerald Lynn is standing there with her. And it just reminded me so much of Charlie Cooper because it's the older sister standing there and it's like, yeah, that's my vaccine. Yeah, you go ahead, give my little sister a shot. But it's great,

because there's a little sister getting the vaccine from that was made from her older sister's case of mumps. That's crazy. So anyway, Hilleman really should be remembered as this hero of vaccines. He made so many different vaccines beyond the ones we're just talking about on this episode. Part of what really, I think, hurt him personally and maybe why I saw one person assert, maybe this is why I didn't get a Nobel Prize.

I don't really know that. I don't know the politics of that or the timing or anything. But in 1998, as you've probably heard, Andrew Wakefield, who was a British medical researcher, published a paper in the Lancet that claimed that there is a link between the MMR vaccine, measles, mumps, rubella, MMR, specifically, and autism. Now, we know now that this study was completely bunk. It was wrong. He mishandled the data. He lied. I mean, let's not use scientific terms.

Let's say what it is. He lied. There is no link between the MMR vaccine and autism. There is no link between any vaccine and autism. He told a lie, and it has been one of the most damaging lies in medical history. And as a result of that, towards the end of his career and his life, Dr. Hillman received death threats instead of thank yous for many parents because they had been lied to and misled and misinformed by Wakefield's completely, completely false data. And of course, Wakefield was later stripped of his license and the study was retracted but that's the problem is that the lie has been so powerful that even though

we're not hard and feather people anymore we're not hard and feathering we can't turn feather him i don't know what else you can do but but what's hard is i don't know what else we can do but say his study was false, it was a lie. It was a lie. And we've retracted, like the Lancer retracted it and said, we shouldn't have published it. We're sorry, it was a lie, it was wrong. And he's licenses gone. So he has been reprimanded as formally as you can be reprimanded for telling lies. And yet still people will say this as if it's a fact, as if there is any, there's no truth to it. There's no link there. It's all lies, lies based on lies based on lies. So that's the, that's unfortunately the, the, the bump in the road, when you get to the history of specifically mumps in the MMR vaccine, is instead of seeing this continued increase rate of vaccination with lower and lower cases and fewer and fewer people dying of measles and getting complications

from mumps, what you see is that everything improves for a while, and then you see vaccine rates start dropping and with it, cases of these should be gone, should be ancient history diseases start recurring. And we have seen mumps outbreaks, various places in the country. They're not often as highly publicized as the measles cases because measles can be fatal. It will be fatal to some percentage of the population. I mean, I think that's the thing we need to say with a disease like measles, someone will die of it if they get it. No most people won't, but someone will.

And that someone matters just as much as all the people who didn't. And with mumps, while most people won't get these horrific complications, someone will. That's the way statistics work. Someone will, if enough people get this. So instead, what I would recommend with a CDC, the Centers for Disease Control recommend, get two doses of the MMR measles' Mumps through Bella vaccine. The first dose is somewhere between 12 and 15 months. So that's the one that our daughter Cooper just got.

And the second dose is somewhere between four and six years of age. You have to get it before you enter school. And that's the one that our daughter Charlie just got. There's some thought that maybe immunity does wane with age. And so, you know, in certain, like I, for instance, before I started medical school,

I had to have titers drawn. They actually checked my blood to see if I had enough antibodies in my body to protect me against measles, mobs, and ribella. And I did. So, I was good. It was a relationship, it's made me the brag. I was good, but that's been a while ago.

That's not something, unfortunately, that's not something you can do routinely, just because of expense. I mean, it's just a blood draw. It's not like a unfortunately, that's not something you can do routinely just because of expense. I mean, it's just a blood draw. It's not like a risky test to do, but that's kind of expensive to go do just to see if you need another MMR vaccine. If it is clear that it's going to become necessary, you'll see recommendations come out for a booster. That's what happened with the whooping cough booster, right?

We used to just get tetanus boosters as adults, and now we recommend that you get a tetanus and a pertussis booster as an adult, and that's because we realized the immunity waned as we got older. And so if that becomes necessary, you'll get that recommendation and the important thing for you is the patient is that then your insurance will cover it, right? Unfortunately, that's the thing we have to think about. The MMR vaccine is incredibly safe. It's incredibly effective. The Mumps component is about 88% effective when you get both doses. The first dose is 78%, but that's why we get the booster

to bump you up to 88% by the second dose. And I know that's not 100, but what is? But what nothing is better than getting the mumps. Mumps used to be, like I said, my parents both my dad definitely got it, my mom may have gotten it. Mumps used to be something that everybody gets. But there has been a 99% decrease in mumps cases in the United States, since the vaccine was introduced. This is how effective because even if you're even if you're part of that percent that the mumps vaccine doesn't you don't get

complete coverage. You're not completely immune. If everyone around you is immune, that's her immunity. You won't get mumps. Folks, if you hear people continuing to propagate the nonsense that vaccines are not safe and effective. I think we have to call it out. Like I don't think that you can let that roll off our backs anymore. 2019 folks saw bones no quarter. We're not we're not leaving room for any wiggle room where there's no room to respect people's differing beliefs. There's no room for it. Can't do it. Not for this like I'm I'm sorry. I think that we, if you are somebody that is right-minded and believes in science, and that you don't need to believe in science

because it's just science. This is not a belief. If you understand it's not pro-vaccinated actually, even I don't think it's like real and fake. And I think, I think if you see, I know, I was, my sister was telling me about a YouTube series that was giving you, like, it's a pro-con kind of thing, and they were giving you, like, both sides of the vaccine thing, was a recent episode they did. In my mind, they're damaging, too. There is no other side.

Vaccines are safe and effective. That's science, that's fact, that's the truth. That's it. There are people who will lie and say other things. Right. There's flat authors. Right. And that's where I would put people who are anti-vax or in the same categories flat authors. They're lying. They're telling lies. I don't know if they all know they're telling lies. Some of them maybe may not have malicious intent, may just be misinformed, but that doesn't change the fact that those are lies, and they are lies that will kill people.

People will die because of these lies. In the end of story, and they need to be called out, there isn't another side of this issue. Right. There's the truth, and there are people who are lying. And if anybody tells you that there's a link between vaccines and Autism don't say well. I believe no you know Tell them they're wrong tell them their line and tell them that

Also even if that were the truth which it's not but even if it were the truth What again? I would still give my kids vaccines What again, I would still give my kids vaccines because that's fine if they have autism. It's not okay if they die of measles. What are you saying to autistic people? That's a horrible, horrible thing. It's a horrible lie. And again, it still does it.

I don't even like indulging that line of reason. Like it's true, it's true, but it's like, it doesn't matter. Like it's not as irrelevant. I know, but it's still, it's still not like as if as if being neuro typical is the most important thing on earth, if as if that's the end all be all being good at sports is the most important thing on earth. And second to being physically extremely, extremely attractive. And then the third thing, no.

No. But again, there is no link between vaccines and autism, the MMR or otherwise, there is no link, is no link, it was a lie, it was a lie. Any goofball biohackers that try to say otherwise on Twitter, please let them know they're incorrect. They're lying and those lies will harm people. It's just kind of just gonna play about that cat for a second that been whatever, please let them know that they're incorrect. They're lying and those lies will harm people.

Just kind of just go play about that cat for a second that bin whatever. I don't even remember a cashful name. Ben something. It was talking about how I would encourage you to educate yourself about vaccines the same way I did by watching these two anti-vax documentaries and reading these two anti-vax books. Okay. What are you like? That's not an education. That's like you're not getting both sides. There's not both sides. Anywhere there were, you're like getting one dumb side. That's what I'm getting sense.

It is wrong in the lives. I really think that's an important thing to remember. Not everything has two sides. There's you, Jackman. That's it. No, there are lots of things. The truth doesn't have two sides. There's you, Jackman. That's it. No, there are lots of things. Truth doesn't have two sides. No, there's the truth. And that's it, especially now, especially now in the United States of America, it's important to remember that there is the truth and it is knowable and we can defend it. And we don't have to give equal time to lies. There are opinions and there are beliefs. This is not one of them. Now the Chuck E. Cheese thing putting the pizza slices back together. I don't know about that. Jerry's still out on that. Folks, thank you so much for listening

to our program. We hope you enjoyed yourself. We started. We got a little bit preachy at the end there. That's how we do it here on saw buns, but we're going to try to talk about vaccines at least once a year. Just bump it back up. This is your booster shot for vaccine awareness. No, we still haven't done an episode on rebellis, so... Cut coming in 2020. No, I wasn't going to wait that long. Well, okay, you're going to run out of the vaccine-related topics to talk about.

Oh, I'll never run out of vaccine-related topics. You don't know me. We're part of the maximum fun network. You can find them at maximumfun.org. Thanks to the taxpayers for these. There are some medicines as the intro and outro of our program. And thank you to you for listening. We sure appreciate you. We hope you've enjoyed yourself. If you get a chance, please share this episode around. Say it's extremely important because people are dying of measles and mumps

and well, they're not dying of mumps, but they're it's not great to get mumps I will say that. No. And please share this episode or any of our episodes reviewed on iTunes if you can that's actually a really big help and subscribe and ask others to subscribe and all that good stuff but until next week when you we join you again my name is Justin McElroy. I'm Sydney McElroyoy. As always don't drill a hole in your head. All right. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture, Artistone.

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