Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Nose Blowing

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

Blowing your nose is maybe the only small glint of satisfaction had while having a cold or sinus infection. But is blowing your nose actually good, or even safe? Dr. Sydnee and Justin look through the history of handkerchiefs and nose-wiping to the science of what happens to your sinuses when you blow your nose in order to try and find a happy medium.Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers https://taxpayers.bandcamp.com/

Saw bones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books! One, two, one, two, three, four! Hello everybody and welcome to Saul Bones, a marital tour of misguided medicine. I'm your co-host, Justin McElroy.

And I'm Sydney McElroy. I'm so excited about this, what's it? Because... You seem punchy. I am punchy because when you found this topic, I was sitting next to you, um, doing some business of my own, some work business. You were playing a game.

I, that is a part of my job. Yes, that's true, Sydney. I'm a very fortunate man, but I heard you go, no. Like sometimes I, you make this noise like, oh, I'm gonna have to do this episode, but I don't wanna do this episode, but I think I have to. And that is certainly the noise that I heard you explain today. I have no idea what that is in reference to, but I feel pretty confident that that was your attitude.

That is definitely the attitude I had, especially this week, this topic in reference to what I've been experiencing this past week. It felt targeted. When I thank the listeners who sent in this topic in reference to what I've been experiencing this past week, it felt targeted. When I thank the listeners who sent in this topic recommendation, I'm going to try not to say it in like a kind of like, like sarcastic way. Because what I'm saying is thank you, Will and Keana for this topic recommendation, but what I mean is thanks, Will and Keana. Wow. Thanks. Thanks. For making me research this and learn that, as you can tell, as you can probably hear,

I have been struggling with an upper respiratory infection, which started out as all of us had experienced some sort of viral infection. I suppose, I mean, it wasn't, it was some non-COVID. That's all we know now, right? We test for COVID. It's not COVID the way I have a cancel of signing uh at book's a million here in barbersville and listen signing aren't ain't that hard so if it had been if it had been really really bad I wouldn't done it

for ufa dofa it lay like we took a lot of tests like like a lot of tests. Right, because it felt so much like COVID. Well, and it went through the whole family, all of us, and then finally I was the last, the last one standing to fall to the illness. Yeah. On the day I turned 40 is when my symptoms started. The day, isn't that cruel? Yeah, it is cruel.

Not cruel. But what happened to me is, and this may happen to you sometimes in your ill, my original viral illness was running its course. I was getting better. Yes. And then I got worse. And I developed a secondary bacterial infection as one may do. And I am particularly prone to when it comes to sinus infections.

I'm saying, I always... Sinusitis. Sinusit. It's a tough cookie. I've seen these things lay her out. It is brutal. If you've had a real deal sinus infection, and I don't just mean like you're sniffly, you know what I'm talking about. If you've experienced this, the pain in your face, in your ears, in your teeth, your jaw,

I mean, it's all up in there, honey. It's like your whole head's going to explode. It's rough. That is what I've been experiencing. I am thankfully now receiving proper treatment. Yes. I did not treat myself. No.

I reached out to my family doctor. There's a little plug for family doctors out there. And she took good care of me and I'm getting better. But what I've been doing a lot of this week, or longer, actually longer than a week, is blowing my nose. Not sustained. Not the entire time.

Yeah. No, like intermittently blowing my nose. And I think that we all take for granted this idea that it's good, right? Yeah. Not only do we blow our noses when that isn't necessary. Yeah, we teach our kids to this has been an ongoing battle with us recently Teaching art because we've all passed this thing around and they're bad at it. Yeah, like I didn't think you could be bad at it But they're like bad at it like Charlie at first. It's like not don't embarrass her

When she was younger, I'm saying as a young child She would hold the the tissue or what have you like two inches from her face and blow like it was like a net It's like no, honey. We're not it's not like that. That's not the way to approach now. Here's what I'm gonna I'm gonna throw you Justin not one of the tissues. No, no, although there is a pile of your tissues on this table Which we're to talk about later. My tissues? No, ma'am, those are not my tissues. They're the little teeny ones when you get a nose bleed. I know what's happening. Oh. Anyway, I'm going to throw this idea at you. I think Charlie is probably technically better at blowing her nose than we are. No kidding. We've been doing it wrong. And I'm going to call it a

question, the idea that we should do it at all. Oh, come on. I know. Sydney, can we just have one thing? I know. Now, I can't sit here and tell you the history of nose blowing. I don't, there may be a cultural historian who could document such practices.

I can't, I'm not interested in this. That is beyond my, I'll pay you the world. That's beyond my particular research capabilities. I obviously, the idea of clearing your nose when it feels stuffy is, is very ingrained in us. And there's a whole etiquette system developed around it, right? It's been around so long that we know you shouldn't blow your nose at the table. Yes. Or if you do blow your nose at the table, you should at least turn around

Which the fact that that has to be in a book somewhere is kind of disturbing to me. Yeah, like don't blow your nose directly over the food How would you turn around like you Sit backwards on your chair like a coach talking to young folks and then play like turn your head does your body not rotate Turn around or around or excuse yourself. So like I said, I can't I can't cover the complete history of when did the first human say, hey wait, I could blast this stuff clean out. Hey, I find if I plug one of the holes, I can really blaze. I can really, that had that idea which I'd been there for like that cultural moment, it went in the early man when he was like, hey, if I plug this in up, look, you're really blasted out.

This is a news like I call it the Derek. It's a new move I just came up with. I mean, if I'm just, I'm going to talk a little bit about handkerchiefs and Kleenex as a way of sort of indicating our relationship with nose blowing. Okay, that's sort of my conduit that I'm using because I can't tell you when we first are blowing our nose. So I'm going to talk about handkerchiefs.

But I think it is fair to say that since I mean colds and stuffiness allergies, all the various reasons why your nose might need, you might feel that it needs to be blown date back to as long as there have been people. They're probably were. That was probably what happened first, right? People just sort of like snorted it right out there. Just like right there. Blades it right out. Maybe put a hand up. Maybe know it. Who knows? No snorted. Snorted is inward. I feel like snort. I don't think he snorted it out. Well, then what is the word for blowing it out?

See, that's why I've been struggling here. I think I said blaze or blast. That's not accurate. Blow? That's the word. It's blow. Blow, okay. And we can look back to ancient history for indications that we used to carry something around

to use like a, an all purpose utilitarian cloth that you may have on your person. Yeah. For whatever you needed and certainly these pieces of cloth would probably have been used for you. I don't know gently dabbing sweat from your brow as well, I suppose. And you can find depictions of this as far back as like a thousand BCE and the child dynasty there depictions of figures holding like pieces of decorative cloth

that you would just carry on your person. So we can kind of like, if we look back to why would someone just carry around a piece of cloth all the time? You can interglactically, it's well established that everyone has a towel, I think Ford pre-fret effect, drops that on an ice or dent, that the most useful thing you can have is a towel

and what is a handkerchief except a small towel? Well, that's true, Justin. What are you referencing? The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Ah, okay. Okay. A historical document. A historical document. Yes. So, as I said, these were multi-purpose. These are also often used to, like, put on your head to shield you from the sun. And we're going to get into that with our modern, the Greeks and Romans would have carried around a small piece of cloth, especially for like, if you the sort of image of like at a sporting or athletic events, like waving a white cloth,

that would have been very common. But the idea of a Kirchiff, and when I say a Kirchiff, I mean a piece of cloth that covers your head, right? Which comes from like the hand purchase. I just got it. Did you just get that? Yeah, I had no idea. Okay.

Okay. And Kirchiff is from the French for like head and covering. He had a lot of success. He had a lot of energy. Yeah, so that's what led to the widespread use of the Kirchiff, obviously, predates the hand Kirchiff. Although again, people have probably been carrying around dirty rags for bodily functions for a long time.

People carry human rag that have to have for all the various secretions. It is so, I like this kind of thing because this is medically adjacent, right, the history of a hankerchief, but it is so human to say I'm gonna carry around I mean that's what it is it's my human rag for for my bodily secretions it's so grody when you put it that way but like the way you think about it too much you can't because these are I think my bathrooms like that like how absolutely wild it is that we're like, well, it's a normal thing being a human. One little like quirk that we have is that everyone's wild.

We have to go to a hole to put some of the stuff we've stored up into the hole, sort of dangle our bottom over it. We put the bottom of the hole and some of the human goot comes out and it's you don't I know it's going to seem like you need it. You don't trust me. It's just completely fine. I like though that we have created I mean much the same way that you and I have themed bathrooms in our house.

We have created a sort of fun playfulness around around this, this very basic elimination. There's our Twin Peaks bathroom. This is our, this is our, it's a Tartus, but it's actually the bathroom. It's a Tartus, but it's actually you poop on the inside. So anyway, people would carry a curtief in their pocket. The original is bathroom is actually smaller than you expected to be.

Like you get in the tardis and it's like, whoa, and then you see a huge door to the bathroom and you open it. It's very small. You have to cross down. It's very tiny, like half bath. It is a half bath. I will say it's like a normal sized door. You say like a huge door. No, in the tardis, it's just like a normal door. I'm saying the bathroom on the real tardus. Oh, not our Tartus bathroom. It's huge door and then you open it and it goes

into a very small bathroom. Does the doctor go to the bathroom? Can't. Can't. Okay, so people would carry a curative in their pocket because you would need it to cover your head periodically. And it began to become like a fashionable thing. Sure. To have a curtiff for different reasons. And initially it was, it's dated back to royalty were the first to like instead of just having something that you just sort of, again, very utilitarian tucked

in your pocket to have in case you needed it, to have something lovely that you would have on your person where you could see it, you know, that others could view it too, and that you would use for all kinds of things. And it is at that point that you start hearing people refer to them not just as purchase, but hand, purchase or handkerchiefs. And then they start to take on different meanings at this point. So you start to see the idea of a handkerchief being a token of affection, you know, something that you could give to a lover, something that could be beautiful, that could have embroidery

on it with your initials or with some sort of message. They could be used to show your social status, you know, again, they were associated with royalty early on. So you can see, we've talked about this before, this before, if a king does something, it becomes popular. Even if that's like getting a officiala, remember? Yeah. Yeah, even getting a recto-fistula is something that you could catch on. Yeah, it would be all the right.

It would be very trendy for a little bit. And especially if they were ornate or embellished in some way, it's like a lot of things. We all need to carry this. I'm going to make mine prettier to show how fancy I am. And as Hanker Chiffs caught on, it really became popular throughout all this time here. We're talking about the Middle Ages where we write about ladies giving gentlemen their handkerchiefs and all these kinds of things. And they play big roles in things like a fellow, a handkerchief is an important symbol,

Shakespeare writes about. But it's not until the industrial age that you see, everybody everywhere needs a handkerchief and they really start taking off. And the reason is because we start to have these kind of more crowded urban areas. Pollution is a bigger problem. And we are aware enough that there's something about the air that is different. That makes us think we need something to occasionally cover our face or blow out that city cred.

Oh, yes. You know, I'm talking about, that's why I moved out here to the hills away from the city that city air got to me said Yeah, don't Don't say too much because we do live in the chemical valley, so hey, but still They're not in the air isn't the water and water Listen don't some in the air don't blame it all on cities. We us out here, we're pretty good at polluting the air too. We all find our own way. So, and they've ranged.

At this point, you kind of see like this variety of different handkerchiefs for different purposes and different. The code, we all know about the handkey code. It's the code. What's the handkey code? Yeah, yeah. I thought you were talking around they code. It's the code. What's the hanky code? Yeah, yeah. I thought you were talking around the hanky,

just avoiding the hank. Oh, you mean like flagging? Is that, I guess, maybe? Like to show what you're into? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, I'm not talking, I'm not talking about that. That's not of gist and fusing.

Yes. You gotta be careful with the hanky code. I looked it up just to make sure that I could, in case you weren't unaware, I could have a specific point to reference. And there's a lot of like a lot of things in the hanky code are like, it just give you an example,

it's pocket dependent. So a lot of it's like, I like belly button stuff. And if you put it in the right pocket, and then the left pocket is like, avoid my belly button, all costs. You just got to be really, really careful about this. So I could need to carry a chart. You need a flow. Yeah, you absolutely need a chart. I don't believe that this is an actual

practical daily use, but it is a fascinating. I'm looking at like a legitimately like this chart that I'm looking at has like mustard gold, lame, rust, brown lace. Like it's, there's a lot to keep track of here with this. Yeah, you also have to be really good at differentiating colors. Yes, that's true. You could, you could be a colorblind person that has a very surprising evening. You have to be careful. Well, that is not, I was talking more about the idea that as handkerchiefs were popularized, you had everything

from like your snot rag, which was just some torn piece of fabric that was very functional to like a pocket hanky that would look nice that like maybe someone who considered themselves a gentleman may carry around, maybe offer it to, I don't know, a hysterical woman. Yeah. I'm saying that in, with sarcasm. Oh, okay. Why are you shaking your head and saying, no, I'm not. This is how I feel.

No, I'm not. I'm don't pretend like I'm doing that. You're giving me a double thumbs-ups. Well, I feel like in the context of our show, people would know that if I use a phrase like a hysterical woman, that I'm being sarcastic, but I don't know. Maybe you're a new listener and you think oh my gosh gosh. This is a guitar. I was enjoying it Um, so the stuff about the hanky code and then the hysterical woman bit you could you could perfume them tuck them in your sleeve That would be lovely. There were all kinds of specific occasions like wedding hanker chips A special baptismal hankchiefs to dab off,

baby's head after it's been doused. And all these things could be embroidered with dates and names, important events and that kind of thing, prayer handkerchiefs, which also could be used, it's funny because I was raised Catholic and I think about my upbringing. A lot of the adults in my

life always had handkerchiefs. And some of that dates to the fact that when my mom was growing up going to church, if you forgot to cover your head, because this was traditional at the time in their faith, you would just pin a handkerchief on your head as you walked in. And so she can recount many times just having like, her, yeah, her mom's hankerchief just dropped on her head and Bobby pinned into place. I know.

This was not, this was before my time, that was not something I experienced, but I remember hankerchiefs always being around and having like the monogrammed ones and you're looking like you don't believe me. No, I believe all of it. I just feel like whenever someone would have one of the dad would have one sometimes.

And normally, I think there's definitely a place for re-examining cultural stuff. I mean, like, did we move away from this too far? You know, there's people that want to like pine for a simpler era and they cling to some of these like things that we don't necessarily like. They're not a necessity, but it's nice to have you see something with like a, I don't know, pocket watch,

something like that, right? There's a, it's just the idea that you would keep this rag with you and then offer it to other people or even have it in your pocket or use it and put it back in your pocket. I just feel like the first day that someone came up with disposable. Everyone should be like, okay guys, handkerchiefs in the fire. Never again. Well, Justin, you have led us to someone coming up with disposable. Yes! But before we talk about that, please follow me to the building tomorrow.

Let's go! The medicines were medicines that escalated my car before the mouth. With Max Fund Drive in the books, we'd like to welcome our new members and say thanks to everyone who supported us over the years. Welcome! Thanks! And now, onto the sticker sale! A lot of this year's drive gifts and live streams focused on food.

We love how food can bring communities together, but not everyone has access to the food they need. So we'll split the proceeds from our sticker sale among five US food banks in areas disproportionately affected by poverty. The sale ends Friday April 14th. Members at the $10 monthly level and above can purchase any stickers they'd like. There's also a special Max Fun sticker featuring Nutsie the Squirrel that all members can purchase. For more info head to maximumfun.org slash sticker sale and thanks again for your support. Her Majesty served Great Britain and the Commonwealth, loyally, for over 70 years.

And while of course we feel a profound sadness, we must remember she lived a long life and died in such a way that I think many of us would want for ourselves. She was at home, surrounded by her family. And of course, she was listening to the Beef and Dairy Network podcast. The Beef and Dairy Network podcast is a multi award-winning comedy podcast and you can find it at maximumfund.org or wherever you get your podcasts. I hope whoever came up with the supposed disposable tissues wasn't too proud of themselves because I just arrived at it and finally, you know, and all I have is the benefit of their previous existence.

Now, you've got to understand that at this moment, we're about to talk about disposable, not handkerchiefs at this point, tissue. I'm not going to use the brand name. Yeah, well I am going to use brand name, but I'm not there yet. There's a flow here. No, I know, I'm not trying to rush them to say it's hard to not say. And it's true. The brand name. So, we're in the 1900s, and at this point, hanker chiffs are ubiquitous, and so the designs

and patterns and colors, it could be a way for a fashion designer to start introducing their look or their style with new patterns, like a geometric print or a certain color palette, that kind of thing. For you to use up a fabric, they don't like, they have extra cutoffs? Yeah, exactly. Well, and I mean, all of this would be a way of saying, this is the direction of fashion. They were also used for things that were practical. You could have recipes, cocktail recipes,

were a popular thing to have on a handkerchief. And you can find, there's tons of these, if you wanna look for examples of these from throughout the 1900s, of beautifully designed ornate, or like funny, there were ones with cartoons on them and comics, like funny how-to guides. I bet you're busing up every time you got that.

You got a Ziggy in there. Got a Beat It Bailey to enjoy. All of those things, all of those things would be on there. There were like your hobbies, how to do things. Things like palm reading, more popular things. You'd get a handkerchief that would show you how to read someone's palm. There were things like maps. It was popular to put maps on them. That was a very practical thing. Just put a map get a handkerchief that would show you how to read someone's poem. There were things like maps.

It was popular to put maps on them. That was a very practical thing. Just put a map on a handkerchief, you can carry it with you. So all kinds of things. So handkerchiefs are really this sort of, I mean, you can see where that would catch on. It's not just like a style or status. It's like a, it's who you are. It's like a slap bracelet.

It's showing your personality. This is who you are. It's like carrying around the Wiz backpack. Everybody knows what your deal is. I think it's like the equivalent of what we do with water bottles today, right? Everybody's got their reusable water bottle and it's a certain brand and color and style

and they do things with it and that tells you everything. There's lots of TikToks that tell you exactly who you are based on your water bottle. The main criteria that I looked for in a water bottle is one that would say nothing about who I am other than this is the man who enjoys hydration. I wanted one that was big but not too big. Yeah, you failed. You got one that was extremely extremely big. So, right as hanker chips are really on the rise, of course, the disruptor has to. Got it disruptor.

Right, mess it all up. So there is a company called Kimberly Clark and during World War One, they made these crepe paper filters for gas masks. That's where this starts. Okay. In the 1920s, they took that sort of, I don't say formula, but that product and refined it into co-tex. Oh, the, oh.

For menstrual cycles. And so first come the co-tex. And then they take that product, make it softer, lighter, thinner. And by 1924, they renamed the co-tex to the Kleenex. And they start marketing Kleenex. Now initially. Co-tex is so thing, right? Yeah. Cotex to the Kleenex. And they start marketing Kleenex. Now initially-

Cotex is so thing, right? Yeah. Oh, it's just the company net rather than the- I got you. They just didn't call those Cotex. If you're going to use it on your face, it's called Kleenex. And that's what Kleenex were for, to wipe cold cream off your face. That was the initial purpose of a Kleenex.

They were very heavily marketed as if like all the celebrities, because that was a common beauty practice of the time, was to cover your face and cold cream after you removed your makeup. To remove all the celebrities after they cover their face and cold cream, they use Kleenex to remove it, because they're soft and gentle on your skin. And that was where Kleenex started. People still use cold cream after they take off their makeup.

I'm sure there are people who do. I don't think, do I think that it is as popular as it was? No, I'm almost a big Vaseline fan. Hmm. Perfect for a slow free phase. No, there are, again, I've learned this from TikTok. There are lots of products to remove your makeup now. So I think it's very variable

and up to how much you want to spend on them. I'm sure, everything. So, initially, people very variable and up to how much you want to spend on them. I'm sure. So initially people are just using them to, I mean, that was, it was like a beauty product. And it was very much associated with femininity too. It was not something that a masculine person would want to use because you wouldn't put cold cream on your face either, right? So about five years after they're introduced, one of, and this is the story that is told.

One of the researchers at Kleenex has a cold and is using the facial tissues to blow his nose and thinks, well, this is better because after I use this, as folks not, I can throw it in the trash can. That's so superior to these hanker chips that we all carry around. And so at that point, they start marketing them not just for removing your cold cream, but also for blowing your nose or wiping your nose or in some way, you know, are you sneezing or you cough and do you know, are you sneezing or you coughing?

Do you have a running nose? That kind of direction. And what they really harp on is this concept of, you know, with a handkerchief, you're putting the cold right back in your pocket. Yeah. Guys. Or your purse or whatever. Yeah.

And this was a really compelling idea to people and it would take a few years for everyone to adopt it, but obviously Kleenex took off. Unthinkable. If seven, one had line in one newspaper and then ever was like, yes, burn the rags. Well, but again, a couple things. One, we're talking about a price point. A leftover piece of cloth was accessible for almost anyone at the time. That's true.

Yeah. of cloth was accessible for almost anyone at the time. Vine, a box of tissues was a whole other matter. And also, again, they'd become part of culture. And they were associated with things. I mean, it was. It was a very romantic gesture for, you know, I think you kind of, you get this image of like, and again, these are like old stereotypical images of like a woman being overcome with emotion and starting to cry. And then a very nice man in a trench coat

and hat like handing her his handkerchief. And it was all very romanticized, right? So you had to like fight that, which they did. And then specifically introduced products like tissues for men to fight the idea that only women were supposed to use Kleenex. So there were marketed like in the 80s Kleenex for men. You laughed both in the last like 12 hours.

I saw dude wipes at the store. Like it's still, we still feel the need to label who we think is the best target them out for our various wipes. Well, and I think it's interesting because what you're fighting against is the best to target them out for our various wipes. Well, and I think it's interesting because what you're fighting against is the same sort of like this idea that somehow it's masculine to use a dirty piece of cloth to wipe off your nose and that it's also then affectionate,

gentlemanly, romantic, whatever one you want to use to take that dirty piece of cloth and offer it To someone the same cloth and we know we knew about terms at this point So we knew and so at this point Kleenex kind of take over yeah a lot more people are using them Now the Hagerchief doesn't go away the Hagerchief has not gone away to this day. I know But definitely I think people are more likely to use cleanx. Now, all of that goes away because at this point, I think we're kind of into today where most of us would use cleanx. I'm going to talk about the blowing the nose too. But the question is which one is

more sanitary. Now, if you use a cleanx in the way that you wipe your nose, put that immediately in a trash can and wash your hands, I can see a great sanitary argument there. But I think we all have been guilty of taking that Kleenex and like shoving it into your pocket, or balling it up and putting it in your purse. How many of us have those memories, going through a loved one's purse and finding bald-up clean-ex.

You know that happens. And we all are guilty of that. Also, even if you do throw it away, and you don't leave it on the podcasting desk or on the arm of the couch, even if you throw it away, did you go wash your hands immediately after? Yeah, unlikely, right. If I didn't throw it away. So, there does become this sort of question like, well, I mean, with perfect use, yes,

this seems more sanitary. And certainly, I think we can all agree that like if you think about a traditional handkerchief, a piece of cloth that you blow your nose on, sort of wrap up the snotty part to cover it and then tuck it into your pocket or your bag or whatever. And then you've got this like dark, warm area with germs in it. It's like you've just made yourself an incubator, right? Like you, it's like you're trying to grow something. None of this is any different from traditional handkerchiefs though.

So far, I can think of, right? Like, this is all, you know, I'm talking about traditional handkerchiefs. I'm far, that I can think of, right? Like this is all I'm talking about traditional handkerchiefs. I'm saying you can see why that would be a problem. Yeah. And I don't think it's realistic to say I have a reusable handkerchief, but as soon as I use it one time, I throw it in the washing machine. I think that would be difficult for most people. But then there's the sustainability issue.

Yeah. You know, we throw away a lot of Kleenex. That's a lot of waste. Yeah, but it's gonna be a lot of waste if you watch those handkerchiefs as frequently as you should, which is every time you bull you're nose. So I don't know. It was a big, there were articles written about it

all throughout the pandemic about this idea that like handkerchiefs either should be done away with once and for all. Do we finally see like this is ridiculous? Get rid of reusable handkerchiefs. And then other people who argued the other side of it, no, this just like because if you fold it right, you're hiding the germs better than you and you're not throwing away the tissues. Let's be honest, you're not just say you're not washing your hands.

Just say you're a nasty dog who loves this dirty rag and move on. Stop trying to justify it. Kids could be reading that. You know what I mean? Kids are nation's kids. If you use, I will say the final word on whatever you use after you use it, whether you're throwing it away

or putting it in the washing machine, you do need to wash your hands, which is something that people still even after. I don't want to say after, during continuing COVID, people are not consistently washing your hands. With all that being said though, wiping your snot is one thing. Should you be using these implements to blow your nose? So when you blow your nose, this probably doesn't surprise you. You generate a lot of pressure inside your nasal cavity, okay? And is that a wise thing to do? I mean, are you actually asking me because I'm a little too smart to just like barrel into

this question knowing that there's some sort of trick coming? Okay, there's a study. Yeah. There's a study. Yeah. There's a study done at the University of Virginia. Studies, tricks, same thing with these scientists. In the year 2000. And basically they put a thick liquid dye into the nose. They squirted it into the nose of adult volunteers for the study.

And then they had them either sneeze cough or blow their nose. And they would make them sneeze by like putting something under their nose that would trigger a sneeze, okay? And then they actually did cat scans of their sinuses afterwards. And this is upsetting to me. What they found is that people who blew their nose had some of that die in their sinus cavities afterwards, whereas people who coughed or sneeze didn't. And it kind of gave rise

to the pressure, right? The pressure that you generated by blowing your nose blasted some of that not just out of your nose, but into your brain tube. Well, not into the brain tube and the holes in your skull that we call synuses. The brain tubes. And what it led, one of the researchers who's infectious disease specialist begged the question, if we are blasting some of that mucus, you can't say, blast thing. Well, I mean, that's what you're doing. You're generating an incredible amount of pressure. If you're blasting some of that mucus into your sinus cavities and that mucus is laden

with some sort of germ, viral or bacterial or whatever, are we worsening the condition? Are we setting ourselves up for exactly what I have just developed, which is a secondary sinus infection after this viral upper respiratory infection? Now the study did not go on to like chart rates of sinus, in fact, you know, because that's what you need to do, right? To prove whether or not this mattered, you'd actually have to see to people who blow their nose more often or at all. Or has outcomes. Yes, have longer infections, requiring antibiotics more, have more sinus

infections, documented sinus infections, not just like, you think you had one, but like, actually, whatever criteria you're going to use, clinical or CAT, you think you had one, but like actually whatever criteria you're going to use, clinical or CAT scan. So you need to do more than that, but there's a question there. Is it bad to blow your nose? I don't know. And there are other risks. There have been documented cases.

First of all, blowing your nose more can lead to more nose bleeds, which doesn't seem like that big deal, right? Okay. So your nose bleeds. Most of the time, that is a benign condition. Yeah. Can be serious. Most of the time, that is a benign condition. Yeah, can be serious. Most of the time isn't. But also there have been cases of things like air in the brain or air in the inner ear or even like as a result of blowing your nose, you blow your nose so hard that you

blow air into your brain. Seriously, there was a case of an orbital blowout fracture, like the, the orbit, your eye socket, like breaking because you blew your nose so hard. And like, you read these case presentations and like, someone comes into the emergency room and they're kind of sleepy and out of it and there's clear fluid running out of their nose and that's their cerebrospinal fluid running out of their nose and it's because they blew their nose so hard.

You need that stuff I'm assuming. Yes, you need cerebrospinal fluid. Yeah, you need to re-brose spinal fluid. Yeah, you don't want it running out your nose. That's usually a bad thing. So now, again, these are incredibly rare, right? The reason they're curious for it to cause they're incredibly rare. Incredibly rare, but Sydney did want to take a moment

just to make sure that was somewhere in your brain every time you blow your nose from now into the end of time. Well, this is the best. That's like the city's version of it doesn't, she looked tired. Like, it just slips it in there a little bit. Just like, just a little thing about it. Listen, if blowing your nose was clinically proven to be a good idea medically, a healthy

idea, then I think an assessment of risks and benefits, you would look at these things and say, oh my gosh, this is incredibly rare. This doesn't weigh in. But if you can't prove that blowing your nose is a good idea, you start to look at these rare complications because you're like, well, is it, was it even a good idea? And then, you know, was there any benefit? There was another study done in 2021. And I think this might be a middle ground for you. Okay. And it said, okay. Normally I, I, a bore a middle ground, but please go on, Cindy. Blowing our noses has not been proven to be helpful.

It feels good. Yeah. Which is helpful. But it also might blow mucus back up into our sinuses and maybe that's bad. We don't know. Or as you've demonstrated, explode your brain. So I think my pleasure of it will be somewhat subdued for this point forward. So this study looked at, is there a safer way to blow your nose? So when you blow your nose,

Justin, do you pinch one nostril closed? I think we've established that I do. Okay. Can't really blast it out without that pressure. This study looks specifically at whether or not it was safer. Well, not necessarily safer in the sense of the pressure generated. So if it changed the pressure that was generated inside the sign, inside the nasal passages, if you just blew your nose instead of pinching one nostril shut, and it looked at the objective clearing of the nose that you can get in that way. And what they found is that if you just blow your nose, and what I mean is you don't shut one nostril off, just blow your nose. The pressure you generate

is like half of the pressure you generate when you close off one nostril. Okay, so if we're worried about these sort of incredibly rare, you know, unicorn complications. This does decrease that risk, right? Because the pressure is so much lower. They also found that objectively speaking, you clear your nasal passages just as well when you blow both at the same time as you do when you do one at a time. Now, the only hang up is that subjectively, meaning when they ask people how clear does your nose feel, they felt that it was clearer when they pinched off one nostril and blue one nostril at a time, even though objectively it wasn't, they felt like they're not just confused due to the huge hole they just blown in their skull with their awesome nose blow, possibly.

Well, you know, the average adult, when they have a cold, they found blows their nose like 45 times a day. So what I would posit is perhaps we need to blow our nose a little less, less vigorously. You know when you're going for it. You know when you're really trying to blow it out. You don't wanna talk about. Every case said, every single time, okay? No half measures here.

I live my life a quarter mile at a time, okay? I use all eight cylinders, all eight. What I'm saying is calm it down. I'm saying calm it down. Don't blow your nose, quite so hard. Consider this technique. Blow both nostrils at the same time. Don't pinch off one nostril at a time. These may all be safer alternatives. You still clear out your

nose. Okay. That's all I'm saying. It's just take it down a notch. Okay. You don't have to sound like Tommy Smirlini blows his nose. It's brutal folks. Yeah. And all I'm saying is that just calm it down. Just calm it down and wash your hands. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoyed yourself. Thanks to the taxpayers for using their song medicines is the intro and outro program and big thanks to everybody that supported us in the max fund drive. We very much appreciate your support. It means the world to us. That is going to do it for us for this week. So until next time, my name is Justin McElroy. And I'm Sydney McElroy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. Alright!

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