Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Pica and Eating Dirt

Episode Date: April 14, 2017

This week on Sawbones, Dr. Sydnee and Justin explore some of the reasons people eat things they really shouldn't. Like dirt. And cigarette butts. And clay. And mattresses. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books! One, two, one, two, three, four! I love everybody and welcome to Saul Bones, a marital tear of misguided medicine I am a coach Justin McElroy and I'm Sydney McElroy Hey Justin. Yes, it's true. How's the how's the diet?

Slow-carb life is a little repetitive. Yeah, you eat a lot of beans. I eat a lot of beans There's nothing good, like there are no good snacks in our house anymore. I didn't realize that you were the main provider of snacks until you stopped providing that. As the man of the house, Sydney, it was my duty to provide you with snacks. Yeah, yeah.

But you've been eating kinda, I mean, I don't wanna say strange, just different. No, it's fine. The way you're eating is different than the way you used to eat But I would think you'd be like missing some things. Yeah, I you know my biggest craving is and this is what it's not for a specific food it's for the texture of crunchy The texture of crunchy and not

Vegetables nice try everybody. It should know when you have crunched a vegetable and it's not the same thing. It should be noted that Justin started like his mouth started watering as he started talking about crunch. I am watching him his mouth water. Maybe it's technically crispy. Is that maybe more accurate to say crispy? Those are adjectives you enjoy. Yeah, I do. I like both of those. But yeah, I miss crunchy and crispy.

Do you think anything crunchy or crispy would satisfy that craving? As long as it's not a vegetable sitting, we've covered that, yes. So like, I don't know, wood chips. No, that's wood. No, or maybe some chalk. No, I did bite chalk that one time in elementary school, but I don't eat chalk as a rule. That wouldn't satisfy my craving.

I didn't know if any crunchy thing might satisfy it, because you know, if you did turn to eating non-food items, you wouldn't be alone. I've heard of this, right? It's a medical thing, not just a preference. Not just a preference. Not just a preference, any more. That's the slogan, pica, not just a preference. Yeah, nobody prefers the wood chips and chalk.

No, no. But it is a condition and it's a little, a lot of people misunderstand Hike and there are a lot of kind of theories and ideas about it that are sort of true but don't explain it entirely. So I thought we should talk about it. Okay. And a lot of our listeners did too. Well, let's go. I'm going to learn about this.

This is something that I've been kind of, it's one of those things like I'm interested in but not so much so that I would learn about it. You know what I mean? Well, not take the time. Hopefully everybody who is currently listening to the show feels differently and will continue. Yes, right. Well, no, like you're gonna deliver,

you're gonna hand deliver the information to me. So that's a lot. You didn't have to find it on your own. No, no, no, no. Yeah. Well, thank you to Sarah, and Jenny, and Lindsay, and Liz for suggesting this topic. Pica is very interesting.

Is anybody who's ever watched my strange addiction? Can a test? Yeah, that border is on sort of like voyeurism, I think, which is a little yucky, but yeah. So Pica comes from the Latin for Magpie. Okay. You know, the bird. Do you know why? Um, is it because the magpie just goes around picking up whatever trash it finds and eats it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Magpie's basically will eat anything. And I even read that they don't necessarily seem to prefer food to non food items. So really they will eat anything. And so that's where Pike comes from. And it's basically just the compulsive eating of stuff

that isn't food, something that will not, as far as we can tell, traditionally give you nutrition. Okay. And it has to be for at least a month to meet the definition of Pikea, which I think is interesting because that means that if for like two weeks you've been eating dirt every day, you still don't have Pikea.

You still don't have it. That's just like you're doing that for you're an edification at that point. I don't know. Maybe you're on a reality TV show. Right. It's like you have to eat this wood. I've never seen like good job survivors. Welcome to the island. Now eat your boat. That's never been one of the ones. I would watch that. I would watch that if they had to eat the boat for sure. Pica is often tied to iron deficiency. That's what most people, and that honestly, to be fair, that was kind of the main thing that I learned about it in my medical education is that Pica is a syndrome that is connected to iron deficiency. For some reason, people who don't have enough iron and so therefore, probably anemic crave things that aren't food.

And usually ice is the example. So the classic example is a pregnant person eating a bunch of ice chips and can't stop eating ice and it's pica and it's because they're iron deficient. And there you go. I know lots of people that like your whole family likes eating ice I don't think they're pica. They're a pica do they actually mom did have pica while she was pregnant with Riley She ate she used to eat ice by the buckets. Wow just ate ice constantly every time you talk to her She was I mean huge like jumbo cups of ice constantly. Every time you talk to her, she was, I mean, huge like jumbo cups of ice constantly. Wow. Yeah. So, but this is only one manifestation of pica. And by the way, Pega, Fagia is the word

for eating ice. Pega, there's words for every different thing you could eat. Yes. Okay. Now, there are other forms of pica and they're not necessarily connected to iron deficiency. And we know this because if it is connected to iron deficiency, typically we give you iron and you get better and you stop eating whatever the thing is that you've been eating. But there are other forms that don't respond to treatment with iron or maybe the patient wasn't ever iron deficient to begin with. So it's more of an umbrella term than anything else. Exactly.

And Pica is still not completely understood. So I'm going to have preface with that as I kind of get into the history of it. There's still, we still have questions about this. So here's some examples throughout the ages of stuff we have documented cases of people eating who have Pica. Ashes, balloons, burnt matches, chalk, cigarette butts, cloth crowns, detergent, feces, buzz, grass, insects, urinal cakes, metal newspaper, paint chips, plant leaves, pencil erasers, plastics, baby powder powder puffs, sand soap, starch string, toilet paper, twigs, coffee

grounds, oyster shells, and tomato seeds. Now I noticed you dropped plant leaves in there and I just want to thank you for finally backing up my family hell belief that eating the leaves of a plant is an aberration and one that should be avoided at all costs. Well, I mean, like not traditionally eating plant leaves, I guess. We have evidence of the condition back to Greek times. People were noted to eat clay and dirt primarily. That was the main thing that was written about and observed. Hypocrity's wrote of the connection to pregnancy, and this is from his writings. If a pregnant woman feels the desire to eat earth or charcoal and then eats them, the child will show signs of these things. I don't know how the child is going to show signs of eating earth or charcoal. But one way or another, they were connecting pregnancy

with strange cravings for non-food items. And there's also an account from the Romans that notes the connection between people who like to eat clay and their skin being somewhat pale, hinting at this anemia idea. So you had efficiency. So you had an efficiency. I had efficiency idea. I always heard that if you had an iron deficiency

and you rub like gold on your skin, it would make lines here or that. Yeah, that has more to do with whatever the substance you're actually rubbing on your skin is. I feel like I'm gonna ask you about that before. So apologies. That's okay. Plenty, of course, said something to say about it.

Plenty of the elder, family friend. He talked about a particular delicacy that was popular at the time, Alika, which was a porridge that had some red clay in it. And he wrote, used as a drug, it has a soothing effect as a remedy for ulcers in the humid part of the body, such as the mouth or anus,

used in an inema, it arrests diarrhea and taken through the mouth. It checks menstruation. Hold on there, diarrhea. You're coming with me, getting the patty wagon. So, so of course, the start to the looper stick. Plenty, you could not come front plenty with an item that people were putting in their bodies and and challenge him. Is there something this would cure? And he wouldn't come up with at least three things. Yeah, it's something.

No, it will. And here are the various orifices in which you can insert it to fix different problems. The Egyptians were fans of topical application of mud, but they also did eat dirt and clay for stomach troubles. OK. So that was a remedy if you were having GI disturbances, you could eat some clay.

And we find an obstetric text from the sixth century, from Edias in what is now Turkey that calls it Pica. And then again, draws the association between that impregnancy. So we've seen that connection for a long time. Ava Sina wrote about it. He advised that if a young boy had Pica, you should imprison them to stop it.

Okay. That'll just eat their way out. Sounds more like just like a behavior modification. Like I'm going to put you in jail until you promise not to have Pica anymore. Although he did say like you don't have to do that to somebody who's pregnant, you don't have to put them in prison. Oh, well, that's a relief.

Yeah, that's good. Of course, ice is probably a very valuable resource at that point. So it would be better if they weren't eating on your ice. Please don't eat the ice. Please, that has to last until December. We just figured out how to make that. Tratula of Salerno, who was a midwife, wrote that if you had a pregnant patient who was craving something like Dirt or Clay or something non-nutritive, you could mix beans with sugar and

just give them that and they'll be happy. With all the beans you've eaten lately, has it killed all your cravings? Would you say? I have for what specifically. Well, Dirt? Dirt? Yeah, I've used to be crazy and stuff. And now I just can't get into it the same way. And you know what's you know what's interesting is that dirt has actually been used.

I mean, we're talking about a lot of medicinal reasons people have eaten dirt and clay, but there were also just for seasoning in some Native American tribes. It was used as like a spice dirt was used as a spice in your food. And clay was mixed with some bitter foods to counteract the bitter taste. I mean, you got to start somewhere, I guess. And that's with culinary growth. That seems like a fine place to get started. So and what I'm building, I hope you're seeing as I'm talking about all this,

is this phenomenon of eating things that we don't think of as food, it crosses cultural bounds, time, space, different origins where different, you know, different groups arose and what eating habits they developed. And it crosses species. Eating, dirt, and clay is a universal animal, animal's on earth experience. And we'll get into a little bit of what people think about that.

But just as I'm talking about all these different cultures that do it, think about that, this eating dirt is way more common than you think. Maybe we shouldn't get so trapped about it then. Well, I can't hurt you, you should dirt. We'll get there. All right. In 1563, a medical text coins geofagio,

which is the idea of eating dirt, eating clay, geofagio. Fagio, meaning eating. Geoming earth. Yep. The rocks, geology, earth, right, stuff on earth. G.O.M.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E fascinated with Pica, and specifically with eating dirt or clay. And so we have tons. There's like a, there's hundreds of case reports and papers written in this point in human history about it to try to figure out, is it connected? You know, what are the characteristics of people who do it? They tied it a lot to anemia, which was called the green disease at the time.

And so they thought it had something to do with, which was called the green disease at the time. And so they thought it had something to do with anemia. And so that was, and that was also very widely studied at the time. Anemia was a big popular medical topic. So that you, you found more Pica patients, the more anemic people you studied. Riding of the time, detailed various cases, and then try to make guesses as to what could be the cause. So like one theory was that maybe it's that you have rotting food in your stomach

and it throws off your taste for stuff. So you start craving other stuff like maybe dirt. Dirt? Maybe. Fine. You see in this time period, iron recommended as a treatment for the first time. Just fascinating. Pretty good called shot. you see in this time period, iron recommended as a treatment for the first time. Just, which is fascinating. Pretty good called shot. Exactly, exactly.

It was also suggested at the time that maybe Pica has something to do with a psychiatric condition as well. That was the first kind of guess that maybe there is more to this than just, you know, craving a mineral or something like that. And then they also made a connection that it was observed more during times of famine.

And this is a theme we'll keep seeing. At times where a certain population was at risk for starvation and didn't have enough food, you see this practice a lot more commonly. Throughout the 18th and 19th centuries, we find more writings about the practices of different people engaged in geophagion and pica in general, as especially as European travelers are going further and further across the globe and encountering different cultures than comparing them to what they've already

seen. And so we start to see descriptions of it of geophagia used for religious ceremonies, tied to magical beliefs, and then different ways that it's used for religious ceremonies, tied to magical beliefs, and then different ways that it's used for medicinal purposes. Right. And can you give me some hints? Well, I'm gonna give you some examples,

but first, why don't you come with me to the billing department? Let's go. The medicines, the medicines, that ask you let my God before the mouth. So as I mentioned, as travelers are crossing the globe and encountering different populations, we start to see more records of people eating dirt and clay for different reasons. In South America, the atomic tribe would store up red clay to eat in times of famine.

So they would have stacks of red clay and just keep it stored somewhere in case they encounter to famine. In Guatemala, clay briquettes with various designs on them were sold for pregnant people to eat presumably. In Zanzibar, it was called Sephora and would commonly lead to death due to the amount of earth that some people were eating. Now of course it's interesting because we didn't know, like we didn't understand the idea of nutrients, right? And some of these cultures I would assume, like it was just about having something to put in your belly. Exactly. And that's, I think, I think you start to see that arise too, is the idea that this will stave off hunger in some way by filling me up.

I'll feel full. And then, and I'll get into this a little more. There is stuff in dirt. I mean, there are minerals in dirt. There's bad things too, right? It's kind of a crap shit. Exactly. There's bad things too.

There's bad things too. The, the tip tribe of Nigeria still looks for eating dirt as an early sign of pregnancy. So if somebody starts eating dirt and you're like, Oh, guess what? You know, you got a bun in the oven and also a little bit of dirt. In other parts of Africa, they found clay used for syphilis for diarrhea. It was commonly eaten used for syphilis, for diarrhea. It was commonly eaten by girls starting puberty, which again, you could maybe assume was tied again to anemia because if you start menstruating

and you're losing blood. Replenishing that. Yeah, then eating dirt for the anemia, but maybe not doing that without knowing the reason. It was thought that if you ate it while you were pregnant, it would guarantee painless birth. It was also used as punishment in some places. Earth was considered to be sacred.

So if somebody was a criminal, you would force them to eat dirt. And if they were guilty, then they would die because the dirt would kill them. This is, I don't know if we're gonna talk about this, but like, does, is like the iron deficiency, right, triggers your body to want to eat something hard, right? Basically crunchy or something. We're not, I mean, I can't tell you exactly the path that is the

energy of trying to do. Like, what's it trying to achieve? There are two theories on that. Okay. And I'm not, I'm going to get to them. Okay. I'm not sure. I'm it trying to achieve? There are two theories on that. Okay. And I'm not, I'm gonna get to them. Okay, I'm not sure. I'm just trying to make conversation here. No, I'm gonna get there. Okay. I'm gonna get there. Okay.

There are two theories on that. But, and we'll cover them. But again, I'm gonna, spoilers. I don't have all the answers, because nobody does. It's still, it's still not completely understood. It did, and this is interesting. This is something I did not know.

It took root in the American South during the time before the Civil War, especially among enslaved populations. So eating clay was incredibly common. This has persisted in the American South, even somewhat today, but as recently as the 1950s, 1960s, it was so common that you could buy bags of clay, little bits of clay at like the bus stop to eat to eat. And people who would move north sometimes would like write home to their families to say, can you send me my favorite clay because my favorite clay comes from this area. flavored clay maybe like no just clay not to choose clay or pizza blasted clay or just clay clay

um I mean you find that and I mean uh I mean there were writings of like the the earth eaters of North Carolina and I mean all over the South people in dirt is it's not uncommon. How strong of a tie did you see between this and like poverty? Very strong. Very strong. Yeah, this was, there are many times where doctors have written about it in various case reports and papers and connected it to that. Now, that's not 100% though,

but that's definitely, you see it predominantly in populations that are at risk again for starvation or are living in poverty. You see that tie for sure, but that's again, I can't tell you 100% of the time. There are exceptions to that. The iron deficiency angle is kind of funny and weird, weird human thing.

I just wanted to be clear that like, I'm in no way, we're having a little bit of fun, but it isn't the way to experience it. People who have nothing else to eat, obviously. No, no, that's not, and that's not, like we're having a little bit of fun, but it isn't no way to experience the people who have nothing else to eat, obviously. No, no, that's not, and that's not really what we're talking about with Pica. I mean, the idea is not, I don't have anything to eat. I know that Dirt is not something that I typically would eat, but I'm going to eat it anyway, because that's not the same thing. Right. Pica is the compulsive eating of something, even though it's not,

I mean, even you might have other things available to you or I mean, you're doing it without considering the other options. You know what I mean? It's different, it's different. Yeah. And then geophagia, the practice of eating earth isn't necessarily pica either. You know, you can think of like picas and umbrella term for things like geofagia and Pico-Vagia and

all the other things I've mentioned. But at the same time, the practice of eating Earth, so we would still use the same word geofagia, exists outside. Because if it's a religious ceremony or something like that, then you wouldn't call it Pica. It's actually in the DSM definition of Pica. If it is for some specific religious reason or something like that, then that doesn't qualify. It's a compulsive eating.

In Haiti more recently, there were stories about people making mud pancakes out of dirt and water and salt and sometimes if you had some butter, baking them out in the sun and eating that, again associated with lack of food supply. K.O. Peck-Tate. Do you remember K.O. Peck-Tate? Sure, yeah. G.I.D.R.U.G. used to treat diarrhea and indigestion

before pepto-bizmo came along and kind of took over. Yeah. It's made from the clay mineral caolin. Oh. Okay. So if you've ever had K.O. Peck-Tate, you've eaten clay. You've eaten some clay. There's snooty with your, up on your high horse, doesn't everybody? You've had a little You've eaten some clay. There's snooty up on your high horse.

That's everybody who had a little clay in your time too. And speaking of snooty, anything like this that has persisted across cultures for hundreds and hundreds of years sooner or later. I knew. I just knew when you start talking about how people used to do it. I knew there was going to be a few people are like, wow, let's go with another world. 2014 Clay Clean's Diet becomes a popular thing.

People. And basically, it was, bentonite clay was the one that was the most popular. And I think still is, I mean, you can still buy this. Like it's still all over Amazon, you can buy jars of bentonite clay. I am sure there are people who still do this. I don't hear about it a lot,

but it's either powdered or in tablets. It's made from like volcanic ash for, I mean, you know, it's whatever they tell you, it's special. And you, I don't know the back story that they're going to make up for it, but it's special volcanic ash. And you take it to the clay tablets and swallow them, or you mix the powder and some water. And that's how most people talked about doing it is you would mix it with some water and then drink it. And the idea was that it would swell up in your stomach

and make you feel really full, and then you would lose a lot of weight. And if that's not enough, it also detoxifies you. Oh, thank goodness. So it was promoted for wellness as well. So you saw it tied with a lot of wellness and detox programs. I didn't look to see if it's on goop.

I don't know that it is, but I wouldn't be shocked if it is. Yeah. And so it was such a remove heavy metals. And like it was built that like you'll do it, you'll lose 10 pounds in two days, 10 days, 10 pounds, 10 days. And your poop's gonna smell like metal because of all the metals that are coming out of your body. Oh. You know.

You people. I just knew, I knew. As soon as the star saying like, oh, this is really sad that some people are so, I knew somebody's gonna be like, well, let's go, let's do it again. Let's give it another spin. Ugh.

Now, and it should be known that not just with the clay clinsdion, there are among certain populations, like among some South African populations, people who are still eating clay today, in order to like improve the softness of their skin and that kind of stuff. And again, in some tribal cultures, among pregnant people, clay eating is still common. So I'm talking about kind of the new age diet fad stuff, but there are places where it's just commonly accepted.

If I were to ask those people, aside from tradition and superstition, like, Verda asks those people, like, why are you eating clay? Or anybody with pica, like, what would they say back to me? Usually they just say they enjoy it. Because they like it. They like it.

I mean, and if you, it's funny, because I read that, like, they like it, but that is exactly what if we have watched my strange addiction and if you ever have and they ask people, why do you eat couch cushions or whatever, you know, that's what they say because I like it. I like the taste, I like the texture,

I like the smell, I like it. They try to summon up culinary adjectives where there aren't like creamy, creamy crunchy zesty. None of the supplies. So you'll see them like struggling for like ways to describe the flavor in like a tertulinary way. Yeah. It's been theorized that it does help help you lose a twist. We still fought guilty about it. By the way, super want to make clear. We don't feel good about our choice of watching my strange addiction make clear, we don't feel good about our choice of watching my strange addiction.

No, we don't do that anymore. We've moved on. We've moved on with our lives. We better be that in more. We don't advise that. Now it's just my 600-mile life or bust. It's, no, no, no, no. Just, no, no.

It's been theorized that it helps you lose weight by making you feel full. I don't know. I mean, certainly, you will find actresses and people who have said, yes, that's how I lost the weight. I hate that, sure. And you also had like a personal trainer and a personal chef. Right. Yeah, the clay of horse. It was linked with celiac disease in one study that maybe it was a symptom of celiac disease and by fixing the celiac, you

fix the the pica, but at the same time, it still probably came back to iron deficiency in that particular case report. So that was a very weak link. Pregnant patients will sometimes say that it helped with stress to eat ice. I don't know, so they'll say I did it in part because it helped me with stress. There are also of course cases linked to obsessive compulsive disorder or other psychiatric disorders where it was just one facet of that, you know, not an independent thing. And then it also can be associated with some parasitic infections.

Oh, right. Yeah. The bug is like, give me dirt. That's exactly it. The worm is whispering inside you. Come on, dirt. Give me dirt. Hey, that's exactly it. The worm is whispering inside you. I want dirt. Give me dirt. Peter Michael is me.

The worm inside you, I require dirt. Again, this could be due to the lack of certain minerals and nutrients that because the parasites taking it from you. But it is thought to be in some places you would see somebody eating dirt or whatever and think, oh my gosh, they need medicine for a parasitic infection. Speaking from an evolutionary perspective, this happens in over 200 species of animals. It crosses cultures and continents, just like I said, when you see something that pervasive,

you got to start to wonder if there's a reason. Because this isn't just, this isn't just, I mean, and that sounds contrary to what we say on the show a lot, like just because some people have been doing this crazy thing for hundreds of years, doesn't necessarily mean it does anything. But this is a little different

because this crosses cultural and species lines, isolated groups who would have no way of knowing about each other, we're doing these similar things. So this kind of behavior, you start to wonder, is there some reason we would do this? Well, dirt does contain minerals like calcium and sodium and iron, so there was a theory.

Do you think maybe in times of famine or you're worried about, or maybe you're not getting enough of a certain thing? So you start to crave dirt because it's going to fulfill that need. That's one theory. And then we've observed animals eating specific kinds of rocks and things that would satisfy different nutrient requirements and that kind of supported it. But the problem is that you actually absorb very little of the minerals from dirt

when you eat it from dirt and clay. So that theory kind of falls apart because even if that's what you're seeking to do subconsciously, you're not really satisfying that. The other idea is that maybe it's it is somewhat detoxifying. Okay, what? That is the other that is the other theory in that negatively charged clay ions can bind positively charged toxins and expel them. Now, as soon as I read that, I thought, well, that doesn't make that sounds like the usual detox kind of nonsense. And I wouldn't buy that theory because your liver and kidneys do that just fine. However, there is some thought that maybe it can, that clay has action against bacterium viruses. And so maybe animals do that for some reason,

for certain infections. Livestock feed is prepared in clay for this reason. So not so much detoxifying, even though that's the word you find commonly used, but maybe to help fight off some sort of infection. Yeah. I don't know. These are the two theories that have been put out there. I neither one really satisfies me or makes much sense.

And anytime I hear detoxification, I start to get right. I immediately assume this is nothing. But, but again, people across species and cultures do it. So, so who knows? What can happen if you do this? That was my next question. Yeah. Why is it bad? Well, if the thing that you're eating is toxic to your body, that's bad. So if you're eating, you know, if the thing that you crave and you're eating can give you metabolic issues or throw your electrolytes out of whack. I would say probably speaking, anything that is not food, if you eat enough of it will not be great.

And that is the other thing about my strange addiction, which we felt super guilty about watching, but it is really interesting to see the doctors on there try to make a buck wild called shot about what happens to you if you eat your whole mattress. Because it's like, this is gonna cause, you know what, actually, I have no idea. I don't know what happens if you spray air freshener on your tongue and swallow it. I don't know.

Over and over and over again. Nothing good? It couldn't be good. And that's the thing, it can throw your electrolyte out of whack. Some things that you eat might have heavy metals I don't know. Over and over and over and over again. Nothing good. It couldn't be good. And that's the thing. It can throw your electrolyte out of whack. Some things that you might have heavy metals in them. So even though in like then you'd get this weird new agey thing like it detoxifies you from

heavy metals, you may actually be ingesting heavy metals if you're eating the wrong thing. It can damage your liver and kidneys. Abstruction can occur. So if you're eating something that's bulkier and isn't well digested or isn't digested at all, then it can just block your intestines, which has happened. And then if they puncture a hole in your intestines, I mean, that can lead to death. So that can be super serious. You can hurt your teeth if it's something that you shouldn't be chewing on.

Also you're probably not getting the nutrients you do need because you're eating these non-nutritive things that I've already said. You don't get a lot of minerals from, even if they're in there. Also, sometimes there's stuff in dirt like lead and arsenic and worms and germs. So, you're eating that if you're just eating dirt. So, it's not a good idea if you have other options. What do you do for people? Honestly, for Pike, the first thing would be to rule out iron deficiency, because it's an easy thing to fix.

Check for a mineral deficiency or iron and replace it, obviously, if you find it. And sometimes it goes away. If it doesn't, you know, the other thing is, is there some sort of behavioral counseling? Is there some other component to this? Like we talked about some comorbidity, psychiatric condition, obsessive compulsive disorder, that kind of thing. And let me clarify, this practice of eating earth while it has persisted for a very long time, which was fascinating for me to learn.

I think you can distinguish that pretty clearly from Hike, where somebody has options to eat nutritive food. Right. They just decide. Not food. Well, they're not deciding, but they're compelled, I think, is a word to use. They're compelled to eat something else that is not providing them nutrition. And obviously that needs to be addressed for all the reasons we just mentioned.

So, thank you so much for educating me about Pica. I feel a lot smarter now. Welcome, Justin. I hope that comes up at a dinner party soon. I want to say thank you to people who sent us some stuff in our PO box, which is PO box 54. I need to once Virginia 2506, hedge for a natural alternative, sent lip balm, hand-assent souvenirs, Madeline sent feminist books, Emily and Russell sent a t-shirt and stamped Danielle for the book. James James super big thanks for the John Allison Buffett Jimmy Buffett t-shirt. Nick Sint-Silly Putty, Ellie Butler sent a book, Sarah sent stamp and chocolate, Christina sent a very kind letter, Casey for your cross stitch that was

beautiful of our logo, it's radical, and Katrina sent some lovely letters and stickers. So thank you to all of you all. Yeah, thank you. We love this stuff. You didn't have to do that, but it's really nice. And for all your cards and letters and wedding invitations and everything. Thank you. And if you're going to advise to your wedding, please leave a fun and bring there so we can randomly call you as we very much enjoyed doing to people.

We will try not to call you at 8 AM. Like we actually did. Sorry about that. So Daisy, anyway, that's going to do it for us folks until no, wait, the taxpayers, they're abandon Portland and they are probably in Portland, right? They're probably all over. Yeah. But I think they're raising. Yeah. I think they're out of Portland. Anyway, they made our theme song, Medicines, and you should go find their music. I think it's on Bandcamp. You can get an alternate version of that song. I'm pretty sure and a lot of other cool stuff. So go check them out and that's going to

do it for us folks this week until next week. My name is Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy. And Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture, Artistone Listener Supported Artistone. Listen or supported.