Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Rabies

Episode Date: August 5, 2014

Welcome to Sawbones, where Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband Justin McElroy take you on a whimsical tour of the dumb ways in which we've tried to fix people. This week: We feed bloody nuts to chickens. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

Saabones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a sewing boxed it out. We were sawed through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines, the escalant macaque for the mouth Hello everybody and welcome to Sawboats a mental tour of Miss Guy to Medicine. I'm your co-host Justin McAroy I'm Sydney McAroy Well folks big news we have it's the news you've all been waiting for we have a big new addition to McAroy family That's right extended family. Yeah, that right, Justin. We are proud to announce that my parents have inherited a stray dog. Yeah, inherited, I don't know. Sorry, that was me. I'm not sure if it's accurate, that they inherited it.

That's sort of a dog wandered on to their porch and now will not leave. Now, I think it was a little annoying at first for everybody, myself included, because I don't like strange dogs. Well, and it didn't have a collar. And so you don't know. Farrell, you know.

No, part wolf. Well, I don't, I mean, why would it be, why would you, it was part wolf? I mean, part wolf. Well, in 1 1 1 1 half wolf, possibly. I don't, I don't think it looks, it's very friendly. It's clearly been. Many wolves very friendly. It's clearly been. Many wolves are friendly.

It's clearly been around. He initially. I know. I don't think wolves are ever friendly. Sometimes wolves are friendly. I don't. Look at watching Game of Thrones for once. I would recommend assuming that wolves are not friendly for everyone in the listening

audience. The other worry about stray dogs, of course, rabies. Well, now that is a valid concern. Say, every time I see a dog, I just assume rabies until proven innocent. That's probably not a good assumption in this country. Since the vast majority of dogs have been vaccinated. Okay. Well, since I clearly don't know anything about rabies, why don't you educate me a little bit, sister? All right, just to preface though, I don't think that dog has rabies,

and I hope we find it a nice home, or that my mom convinces my dad to keep it. Well, you're a doctor and not a vet. Because it's adorable. So if you'll forgive me. No, that's fair, but it's a very friendly, pleasant dog. That's fine. Thanks to Greg, who suggested this topic,

and I think there were actually some other people who threw it out there but great when you do on Twitter guys because we forget so just please email but it was a great idea it's all about maximumfund.org by the way so first of all what do you know anything about rabies no sin okay foaming at the mouth you know dogs so I mean at the mouth okay that's that's about what most people know. So it's a virus Right And obviously you can get it through being bitten by a dog, you know, everybody knows that

I think everybody worries about that. It's it's transmitted through saliva But you could also get it if like I guess spit kind of flew from the dog's mouth into your eyes or mouth or cool cool image. I don't know or from another human into your eyes and mouth I guess although that usually doesn't happen that's not a way it's transmenc. So you see a human their phone made the mouth you wander up there and like hey what's your spittle doing? I want to get in range of you. Make it in range of you and figure out your stitch. I should clarify for the most part humans don't typically phone with

the mouth when they get rabies. Oh, really? I'm not gonna exclude that there wasn't one human who at some point maybe did, but. So there's no way of knowing that people have rabies. No, there are people who have rabies you can tell. Okay. So all other mammals pretty much can get rabies.

And sometimes humans get rabies, unfortunately. And if it's untreated, it's, and I think most people know this, it's pretty much fatal. If it's untreated. And it causes, so in humans, you're more likely to start off with like a flu-like kind of symptom. And this can be after, I mean, weeks, months after you get bitten. This can be a long time after you've been exposed. You get some symptoms, feel like the flu, and then you start getting the dramatic stuff that everybody gets scared of. You know, you get tremors, you hallucinate, parts of you may become paralyzed. The classic thing everybody remembers is hydrophobia, have you heard of that?

Hydrophobia. I bet you could piece that together. A fear of water. Hydrophobia. I bet you could piece that together. A fear of water. There you go. So classically with rabies people described that the patient would become afraid of water. That's not technically what's happening. You have either an inability to swallow or a hurtrily badly when you swallow just because of muscle spasms, so patients will not want to drink. So they won't like freak out if you bring a super-soaker to the room or something? No.

I mean, typically I don't like it if you bring a super-soaker in the room. This chair I'm not allowed to have in the house, but that's okay. They don't make those anymore. Marriage is all about compromise. I wish they still made them. I know. No, but it's just that because the patient is maybe hallucinating and a little delirious and then they know that water hurts and so you try to hand them water and they adamantly

refuse it and it was seen as a fear of water. That's actually what the Greeks called it when a human would get rabies, they called it hydrophobia. They called when a dog had rabies, they called it Lissa or Lita, which were words meaning madness. Also named for the Greek goddess of madness, I believe, which is where the rabies virus is one of the Lissa viruses, that's where that comes from. But the word rabies comes from the Latin word, rabire, which means to rage or rave.

It's one of the, I got a compliment you guys on rabies because it's one of the easier like medical names of things. It's a lot easier to keep track of than a lot of these disease names you guys come up with. That's exactly true. And that's why I try to make sure and tell you, you know, the root origin of these words so that I can butcher some Latin.

Right. I can say rabies easily, so I had to find something that I could probably mispronounce for you. I don't, contrary to popular belief, all doctors don't know Latin. Yeah. No, I didn't take Latin. You know most Latin, I would say.

I understand the concept. You understand that Latin exists. Between my Catholic upbringing and my exposure to medicine, I get Latin. I get it. So, okay, rabies, it's been around for a really long time. We know that because people have been writing about some sort of illness that caused madness and dogs since 2,300 BC. in dogs since 2,300 BC. And that was written in Babylonian law that if you own a dog, which I think is kind of interesting people are owning dogs in 23 hunt like. Yeah, you kind of just imagine them roaming free. Now, I guess that long ago, we were like, Hey, look at those

furry little wolves. You can stay here wolf. You can find me. I'll feed you. That people forget that about domestic dogs. At some point in history, I mean that there was there was one guy or lady who was like, hey wolf come live in my house. I like you. I like you wolf. I'll feed you. We'll go to the fawn white thing here. Join me in and out again. Get in here wolf. Live in my house. But that was risky because if you had a dog and it bit somebody and that person died, then they were going to find you.

Big risk. Which actually doesn't seem that bad. No. I mean of all the things that could happen. And they knew they had laws about this because they knew that sometimes dogs went crazy and bit people and people died, but they really didn't understand what any of that meant. They thought I had something to do with the lunar eclipse and that it caused dogs to go mad. So this continues until like 500 BC when they actually write about the first recorded

case of a disease, you know, that is probably rabies. And they thought it had something to do with nerves burning. This was in a human. All their nerves caught rabies and they thought it had something to do with nerves burning this was in a human All their nerves caught on fire and they burned. Oh, well Maybe I guess no It's possible you're lacking some of the key components for fire that even I a modern man That doesn't have to build his own fires know about there's heat There's fuel. There's oxygen

And you don't have oxygen in your body. Oh my God, you're right, we can be on fire at any moment. You just say we don't have oxygen in our body. Not air oxygen. Did you think, not air oxygen? What kind of oxygen? Liquid oxygen. It's in your blood and stuff, right?

Oh, honey. God, this isn't an act, I wish this was an act. It's an act. We're going to have to talk sometime. We'll figure it out. So Aristotle was the first one in 400 BC to write about the idea that this was something that could be passed from animal to animal.

So or from animal to human. That there's something in these dogs. They, and again, a lot of this was written about dogs, they would become mad they'd bite other dogs and they'd also become mad So this idea that something is being transmitted is already being written about at this point now of course We have no idea what a virus is or anything The the Greeks thought that the best thing to do when there's a disease or something that's plaguing mankind and you don't understand it is probably assign the task to a god or goddess. So the Greek god, Ariseus, son of Apollo, got the task of preventing rabies.

So if you wanted to not get rabies, pray to him. And if you got rabies, then you switched to Artemis, the great goddess Artemis, whose task was to cure it. I wonder if that's a weird discussion with the God. Like, it's got to be some impulse from the God that, like, oh, that sounds like a lot of work. Why aren't you try Dave the God next door? I'm really swamped with everything I got. I'm covering travel, crops, my 2013 PC is like full up.

So try, please try Dave the God. He doesn't do anything. He's a God of staleness that keeps your food from getting stale. That's it. That's all they've done. Please, he's got room in his schedule for rabies. That, they really did load down gods with a god of staleness that keeps your food from getting stale. That's it. That's all they've done is please He's got room in schedule for rabies. That were they really did load down gods with a lot of give him a break Yeesh I do like that they divided it out like ooh preventing and curing that seems like an awful lot

I bet you that's how it I bet somebody started an email chain or something that was like listen Somebody's got to help me with this because I cannot take this entire burden. The gods started an email chain. Yeah, this is gonna mess up my four-hour work week. I can't both cure and prevent rabies. And you know this was way back in the day when email was super slow too. Yeah, right, we take forever. Like you're gonna dial up and everybody.

Have been stone tablets. The pirates. Uh, p-mail. That's what I was. There's p-mail. That's what I was. P-mail. Raybees really began to kind of permeate our ancient cultures as this, whatever it was, whatever Raybees was, because we're going to do it again. We don't know what it is. It's something that causes dogs and sometimes humans to die. Was this scary, deadly thing and that's probably why if you see on some very ancient maps on the edge of The map where they don't know worth, you know

What's past that if you see a dog's head? That that's why That sometimes you'll see that on a map and and that dog's head it represents the you'll see that on a map and that dog's head, it represents the mysterious, the unknown, the likely, dangerous, and it has to do with rabies. You mentioned like ways that you could tell. How do you know if a dog or a person has rabies back in ye olden times? So there were lots of ways, you know, because they knew that some dogs had it and you didn't

know that they had it until they started foaming at the mouth and biting people. So in the sixth century, so what you could try to do is take some crushed nuts. I don't think it matters what kind of nuts. And put them, this is assuming you've gotten bitten and put them in the bite wound. And then leave them there. Leave them there for a day.

Cool. And then take them back out and try to feed them to some sort of foul. Okay. If the foul will eat them, they are dumb. And you should, you should sell them. And the chicken's just stupid. Please someone buy it.

I hate this stupid chicken. It ate my blood nuts. It ate my crushed up rabies blood nuts. I hate this stupid chicken, it ate my blood nuts. It ate my crushed up rabies blood nuts. I hate this chicken. Well, but if it lives, then you don't have rabies. Or at least they thought. And it would limit, I think, the sort of gastronomical appeal

of eating that foul in the future. Oh no, that's the one with a belly full of rabies blood nuts. I'm going to go ahead and just that'll be for company. I save this chicken. That'll be my company chicken. That'll be the company chicken. I mean, my comfort chicken. I'll be having like leaks that night or something. We'll just let the kids play with this one. Yeah, this is the kids pet chicken, stupid, the chicken, the one that eats bloody rabies nuts. The other thing you could try to do is take a piece of bread and soak it in the

blood from your bite wound and then try to feed that to another dog. Okay. And that's good because it gives dogs a taste for your blood. The theory is all foolproof. Oh, this is delicious. You may I can have this flavor whenever I want just by biting him in flesh. Cool. Thanks for thanks for making such a cool dog. It's kind of it. It's kind of a two-part test because the theory was the animals were smart enough that if there was rabies in there they wouldn't eat whatever you were giving them. These are the same animals by the way that got the rabies in the first place and now they're the soothsayers protecting us from it. Good job humanity. I really like

this one so you could also try picking up a rooster, a live rooster and holding its butt to the bite wound. Okay. And if the rooster swells up and dies then you have rabies. Okay. No danger of infection there though which is good. I don't know what kind of germs live in a rooster butt. Not good ones. Or you could always the dog that bit you go ahead and cook it rub its flesh on your teeth and then offer that to another dog to eat. another dog to eat. Which I mean I guess you got your retaliation on the dog. I would think I would probably lean towards some of those other methods of divination. Like this sounds like somebody who's really at once you need that like third or fourth opinion. Maybe just don't do this one. Maybe just accept whatever result you've gotten

so far. The theory nowadays is that if a dog just viciously attacks somebody unprovoked, there is a possibility they might have rabies because most domestic animals don't do that. Most, I should say. But back then, I guess, with so many dogs being feral, you wouldn't necessarily know. A dog might just attack you because it was, you know, a wild dog. It was a wolf, actually. Right. A wolf in disguise. So obviously, we know how to diagnose it now.

Right. We have a great plan. How do we cure it? So we figure out you've got rabies. Some of the cures that you can read about are for dogs, and some of the cures are for humans. So to start off with for just a couple of dog cures, the best cures prevention, I think.

So instead of waiting for your dog to get rabies, you could just go ahead and at 40 days of life cut off their tail. This was supposed to prevent your dog from ever getting rabies. Sure. Don't do that. Don't do that. I'm not advocating you, Cunning.

That's cruel. That's cruel. You could also, they thought that dogs had worms beneath their tongues, which was probably just actually the little piece of connective tissue. Oh, stop it. That's just... That's just... That's just... That's just... Oh, stop. Stop, stop. Oh, stop it. That's just a cut that out. Oh, stop. I know. It's terrible. And then you could also just feed them juniper berries, which seems nicer

to me. Yeah, that's fine. I'm assuming that juniper berries aren't poisonous to dogs. I don't know. Don't try that. I have not a vet. I have no idea. I don't know. The Greeks and the Romans both had a pretty direct way of preventing rabies, which was that they had a special time of the year when you just killed all the dogs you found. Wow. They thought that it had to do with the appearance of Sirius, the dog star in the sky, that something about it, you know, once that time of year came around that you could see that, that star that it would trigger rabies outbreaks. So just go ahead and at that time kill all the dogs you can find. Man, that's short-sighted. Yeah, that's not very nice. It's cruel. No, that's a really terrible thing to do. Don't kill all the dogs. Plenty had a lot of things to say about this. Oh yeah.

Plenty had a lot of things to say about this. Oh yeah. It's unsurprising. He also thought it may be caused by that tongue worm, that worm that lives under dog's tongues. But, a lot of his cures, of course, were about humans. So first of all, as we may have mentioned previously in our hangover cure episode This is where the term hair of the dog comes from He said that if you take the tail of the dog that bit you

Burn it You got to cut you got to cut it off you got to burn it and then put the ashes in the wound Then that would cure your rabies. So that's where the hair of the dog that bit you, that's where that comes from. Wow. I think it would be a lot of it. I'm not cure, I suppose I'm not. No, yeah, I'm not.

A legit cure. You could also, if you didn't want to set the dog's tail on fire, which I don't, you could also try a cloth that soaked in a female dog's menstrual blood. Oh great. That's easy to come by. I think that I don't know which one's worse. They're both pretty bad.

Or you could just find a dead dog and take a maggot from it. And do what with it? Put it in the wound. Oh, okay, perfect. Yeah, you're gonna put this in your wound, whatever you're talking about. You're gonna get something in your wound

and it's not gonna be pleasant and you're gonna hate it and you're gonna be sad. It's just what is that thing gonna be? You could also He also thought that maybe you could get it by being exposed to dog urine Everybody kind of knew about the bite thing, but he also was like, well, you know, P is pretty gross too So you may want to stay away from dog P. So he specifically advised against walking in dog P, especially if you have like if you're feet are all torn up,

if you got cuts on your feet, don't walk around in dog P, which I mean, I guess that's good advice. Sure. You know, if you've got scratched up feet, don't walk in dog pee. Why are you walking barefoot through dog pee? Maybe don't ever walk in dog pee if you can avoid that. So I'll give plenty that one. Now you're not gonna get rabies that way, but it's pretty gross to walk barefoot in dog

pee. Just as a rule of thumb, don't do it. If that's a habit you develop in trying to avoid rabies, it seems like a good play. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Even if your feet aren't scratched up, I think even if the skin's all intact, just go ahead, don't do that. Yeah, why not?

Celcius came up with a cure. He said that what you need to do is clean the wound, suck out any saliva that you can find. Sucking dog true out of an open wound. And then yes, and then cauterizing it, burning it, you know, taking a hot iron and holding it to it. This was probably the predominant treatment that people turned to for about 2,000 years afterwards. There were some other crazy things tried here and there. In 200 AD, there was a case report,

if you like, a case report. Some boys who were bitten and they were injected with venom from seahorse stomachs. I didn't know seahorses had venom. This was, yeah, it's new to me. Yeah, this did not work. And then a lot of new things would pop up with the first huge human outbreak, which was in the 1200s. And after that, you see rabies crop up periodically throughout the centuries.

It's not like, you know, the plague where there was the one big time when everybody got rabies and then that one other big time. It just kind of crops up when things get really crowded and there are a lot of animals and a lot of people living close together. One popular cure that I guess again was not harmful was that you could pray to St. Hubert who was the patron saint of rabies because there's there's you know much like the Greeks had a god for everything We liked to have a saint for everything so the patron saint of rabies and you could travel to his shrine in Belgium When you were infected which does not sound like a fun thing to do when you are suffering from rabies. Yeah, but what does?

You could also try the treatment called St. Hubert's Key, which is to take a key. I guess you got to get a blessed at the shrine of St. Hubert. And then you get it really hot and you burn yourself with it. They also tried branding dogs this way to try to prevent them from getting rabies. And then of course, there were tons of different herbal remedies, you know, that people tried every every herb you can think of was mixed into a rabies concoction at some point either to apply as a poultice or to drink. Of course bloodletting was tried for rabies, it was tried for everything else. And there was even this kind of idea since we knew that in humans,

it caused that hydrophobia, that you could try this kind of aversion therapy where you would just hold the person underwater into. Oh, God. And you would do it, the instructions were until he sputters. Sputters? Until he sputters. And then you can let him back out. That seems a little risky to me, Sid.

That seems very risky to me. I mean, he's underwater. how do you know any sputtering? What is sputtering? So, what's next? Well, Justin, I'm going to take you on our rabies tour through history. But before I do, you're going to have to make a pit stop. Alright, let's go to the building department. The medicines, the medicines that I you let my God before the mouth.

All right, Sydney, I'm ready. So rabies continues to spread. It continues on its march across the world. It spreads through Europe, it spreads to the Americas. A lot of this is with travel, a lot of this is with us, not because we're bringing rabies, but because you know, man's best friend. We love our dogs and we take them everywhere and we give everybody rabies.

There were laws passed many places as rabies became recognized as again, something, some sort of strange madness that overtook animals that you kill a sick animal right away. That was something that was started. There were even in some places laws against owning dogs at all because you could never be too sure. Muzzle laws were also enacted in some places. You could have a dog, but you had to keep it muscled all the time to prevent it from biting people.

Because we didn't know what it was, but we knew we were getting it from dogs. So I guess the theory was we like people better than dogs. Let's just get rid of the dogs. There's some interesting things about rabies since it has permeated our culture for such a long time. You know, this fear of rabies and it's a very dramatic illness, you know, it does dramatic things to dogs, it does dramatic things to humans, so people like to

talk about it and write about it. There are ancient Indian texts that reveal like different recipes for poison arrows. With rabies? Like rabies arrows? One of them included the blood of a man and a goat in order to induce what they call biting madness. So the thought is that these were probably poison arrows tipped with rabies. And in 1650, there was a Polish general who said, you know, what would really get our enemies is if we took the saliva of all these mad dogs, put it into glass balls, and then catapulted them at the enemy. Perfect. Why not? Sure, it's worth a shot. I don't think anybody did that, but it's an interesting concept for biological warfare.

As far as I know, Rabies has not actually been used as a biological weapon. That's right, that's something. It's also permeated popular culture in the form of mythology. rabies is probably, at least in part, the inspiration for a couple of our big bad movie monsters. Like who? Like Werewolves, for instance. Okay, one good thing, team wolf from rabies. Thank you, rabies for team wolf. I don't know that rabies makes you better at basketball.

That's impossible to say. I would bad it doesn't, speaking generally. But the thought was that when humans got this biting madness, whatever it was, because we still didn't know. And after they were infected with rabies, that they became more animal-like. And so, it was feared that much like dogs became mad and bit people that maybe humans would go crazy

and bite people, attack people, hurt people. And so, this may be partially the basis for the werewolf myth. And then also vampires. Wow. You kind of see like the spread of the vampire myth with the spread of the rabies virus. They kind of follow the same pattern, especially in the 18th century. You see the two kind of travel across the across Europe together, which, you know, kind of

leads us to believe that maybe that was the basis for it. People with rabies tend to not like a lot of intense stimuli when they're in the throes of the actual illness. So things like water, maybe the holy water thing, or bright lights would bother them. Strong smells like maybe garlic And they also tended to have insomnia so they would stay up all night And of course there was the whole biting thing would I trade true blood for rabies?

It would would I eradicate rabies from history if it would mean true blood would disappear? I don't know I can't answer that I can't answer that question and. And there's a lot of course that go into these mythologies and I'm sure there are people who have written great tomes on the vampire myth and the werewolf myth and I'm not proposing that all of it stems from rabies but it didn't hurt. Now eventually we got smart about rabies. In 1881 Louis Pasteur, that's probably a name you've heard. Yeah he pasteurization. Exactly. So he started researching cures for rabies with Emil Ru, and they tried out their first

vaccine. They actually created a rabies vaccine on a human that had already been bitten by a rabid dog, and he survived. Wow. And you know what was interesting is they actually did this without isolating the virus. Most of the time now when we make vaccines, and I think we talked about this before, you actually have to have, you know, under the microscope, you have to be looking at like the virus or the bacteria or whatever causes it to know what to do with it to make a vaccine.

This was just parts of, I believe it was part of a dog spine or, you know, spinal cord. So it was part of the dog central nervous system that they used to make the vaccine, which made sense because the virus was there. But this was also the first, what we would think of as an attenuated vaccine, meaning that it had the virus, but it was in a weakened form. This is a huge deal. This concept of vaccination. Hmm, not just for rabies, but spread out. So through all vaccine history, this is a really big deal. Over time, of course, we refined the vaccine. Once we understood what the virus was,

we were able to do a better job at creating a better vaccine. And then, you know, the main thing was, why don't we vaccinate all the dogs? That's a fine idea. Which is what we started doing. Oh, and of course, you know, nowadays, that's why in the United States, you're very unlikely to encounter a rabid dog.

Not that it's impossible, but it's highly unlikely. What's interesting about the rabies vaccine is that we tend to think about vaccination as preventative, right? So when should you get vaccinated for rabies? Before you're attacked. Exactly. However, because it takes the virus,

I mentioned that it can take months for you to actually manifest symptoms, because it takes the virus so long to spread to your central nervous system. If you get vaccinated pretty quickly, you're fine. So you'll actually survive and not get rabies. So it's a post-exposure profile axis is what we would call it. After you've been exposed to rabies, you can go ahead and get the vaccine and prevent the infection. So if you were to get bitten by a dog, you should go check out your local health department or your family doctor and tell them about it. And of course, as I mentioned nowadays, rabies and dogs is very rare in this country.

Bats are actually a bigger deal. Again, not a huge threat. We don't see a lot of cases of rabies. But if for some reason, you find yourself exposed to a bat, that would be another reason to go visit your doctor, your health department, your... That's great, because I've been really cool on bats for a while. So now I'm glad I have a reason to finally be afraid of those flying mice. You're probably not going to get rabies from a bat. Probably.

This is not my again, don't own bats. Why would you own a bat? Don't own a bat. But that's not good pets. But if you get exposed to a bat, go see a doctor. Before you do that, if you do get bitten by a dog or a bat, you should wash it out right away. That's actually something you should do.

Wash it with warm water and soap and then go see a doctor. If you get the vaccine, no big deal. There are protocols for people who don't receive the vaccine in time. But they ain't great. They're not great. We have a couple of successes, but it's rare. I thought that was one success ever.

You told me. I think there's two now. Two now, okay. Two now. So not great. No. No, not nearly as effective. It's much better to, if you think you've been exposed to rabies, go see a doctor.

And if you're doing some out of country travel, it's a good reason to go talk to your doctor about our dogs, they're vaccinated. Because not all places in the world are they on top of their dog vaccination programs as well as we are. That is rabies, folks. Thank you so much for listening. I want to thank everybody who's been talking about the show and tweeting about, I believe that's the term tweeting, twittering, twittering about the the show at and Drew Sutton, Leah, Steven Ellis, Kurt, Sys Morrison, Jillian Daniels, Amy Eastman,

Lindsey, Astrom, Brenna, Ariel, Claire, Naomi. Thank you so much to everybody who's tweeted about us. We're at Sorbonne's on Twitter. This is pretty easy. Or you can tweet at us at Justin Macaroi. And she's at Sydney Macaroi, that's why the NEE, we're on the maximum fun network and we've got a ton of other great podcasts free to listen to. Just go to maximumfund.org, you'll find Lady to Lady, one bad mother, the goose down, Jordan Jesse Go, stop podcasting yourself. My brother, my brother and

me. Thank you so much, dear. And so much more. Just go go listen to all those. You deserve it. And keep sending us your topic suggestions. Like Justin mentioned, you can email it to us. We're saw bones at maximumfund.org. It's easy. And look for us on Facebook and like us there. I think that's everything. Please subscribe to the show on iTunes and leave a share of you. And a rating and be sure to join us again next Tuesday for another episode of So then I'm Justin McRoy. I'm Sydney McRoy. I always don't be drill a hole in your head All right Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture, Artist-owned Listener-supported