Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: The Pitt

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Dr. Sydnee brings a little levity as she talks about a new medical show, The Pitt. Following fictional doctors in real-time(ish), Dr. Sydnee discusses how it compares to working in an actual ER, as well as it how it compares to the 1990s show ER.Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers https://taxpayers.bandcamp.com/Harmony House: https://harmonyhousewv.com/ MaxFunDrive ends on March 28, 2025! Support our show now and get access to bonus content by becoming a member at maximumfun.org/join.

Sawbones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, this one is about some books. One, two, one, two, three, four.

We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess.

We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess.

We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. We came across a farm that was a little bit of a mess. Hey everybody, welcome to Saw Bones, Merital Tour of Misguided Medicine. I'm your co-host, Justin McElroy. And I'm Sydney McElroy. And we're going to get in the show real quick. I mean now, this is the show. But I did want to let you know, Maximum Fun HQ, it is Max Fun Drive Time.

And that means that our podcast network that we're a part of, it's really more of a family, every year we come to you and say, hey, we don't have a big corporation helping us make stuff. And you can look at the media landscape and see that's increasingly rare. And we're only able to do it because you all support us. So if you wanna keep stuff like Sawbones coming, if you enjoy Sawbones, if you think we're doing good work and you get something out of it

and you want it to keep happening, go to maximumfund.org forward slash join. You can pledge just five bucks a month and get tons of bonus content. We've got other gifts we'll tell you about later, but if you can right now, please go to maximumfund.org forward slash join. The money you pledge,

the majority of it goes directly to the shows that you listen to, like Sawbuns. So if you could do that right this second while you're thinking about it and before the show proper starts, we would sure appreciate it, right, Syd? Absolutely. It means so much to us, all of you who are already members,

thank you. And if you're in a position to join this year, thank you. We appreciate you. Yes, it's really important, I think, now more than ever to support medical media in the world. And that's why we're doing our part here to support the other medical media, because I think the more media about medical,

the better, Sydney, personally. I mean, I think so, but I would, I'm a doctor. This week for the Max Fun Drive, we wanted to have some Max, it's been kind of men fun lately on cell phones, I feel like. So we wanted to have, it's been a tough few months, right? So let's, we thought it might be good for the drive to just get a little bit more relaxed.

Well, I mean, so there's a lot of heaviness. We're trying to have fun here. We're celebrating. Celebrating. Our network and our shows and our creators and our listeners, we're celebrating you too. We're all celebrating. Celebrating an independent source of accurate information

that we are so happy to be. And it's like a party. Here's something I know. When you go to a party and people start talking about, I don't know, their jobs or life or work, I have found that if I start saying, yeah, let me tell you about some medical stuff that happened at my job today,

or like, let me discuss the measles outbreak with you. It's a bummer at a party. It's important in other venues, right? It's vital and important, but at a party, people walk away from me. So let's pretend, Sydney, here at the Max Fund Drive party, we're all having some nice, polite conversations, and someone says, well, Sydney,

did you do anything normal this week? What would you say? I would say I watched The Pit. Oh, that's good. That's a normal show. Everybody can watch that, not just doctors. It's a TV show. It's not real.

It's dramatized ER stuff. It's not ER. That's another show. Are you sure you're not a professional TV critic because I'm spellbound over here. It's a show, so I won't bum you out talking about The Pit because it's all pretend and you can watch it and you can engage with drama and experience catharsis

and then it ends after about an hour-ish and then you're back to your normal life. Yes, we're gonna be talking about The Pit. So I was very excited to watch the show The Pit. A brief, first, if I may, a brief history of Sawbones and medical TV. We've talked about almost, like a lot of medical TV shows here on Sawbones,

because we got our, if you haven't been listening, this is also kind of a callback to our initial podcast, The Satellite Dish. It is. Where we talked about a lot of TV and medical TV and we've done many medical TV episodes on Sawbones. I'm always interested to hear how pop culture is like. I tried to stand up for popular culture and narrative

and the importance of narrative to Sydney, and she stands up for the rigors of accuracy. I like that, well, the accuracy, but I also like to see, I think that watching these medical shows gives me sort of insight into how society and culture views what I do. And now I'm not an ER doctor,

so I know this is a specific subset of medicine. But I think it's interesting to see the perception of healthcare providers throughout TV history. Because I think, and I'm gonna talk about the pit, but just to kind of briefly illustrate my point, I think if we look back to like my favorite TV show of all time, MASH, the doctors and nurses on MASH are portrayed as heroes, and I mean, obviously there's the military

angle too, but like they are heroic humanitarian figures who are the last line of defense between you and death. And most of the time, their actions are pretty much beyond reproach. Now, I mean, there's moments, but most of the time, that's how they're portrayed. And I think that you have a lot of- And the drama is typically from human elements,

and how will it shake out rather than was the doctor fallible? Yes, and I think that we entered, we had some fun medical shows we've talked about on here before, like Scrubs, which was more about the foibles of medicine. Doctors are humans, sometimes they're goofy, sometimes they're selfish, sometimes they're sarcastic,

like whatever, not necessarily negative. But then we talked about the show The Resident, which very much not necessarily the titular resident character. He was the one heroic, good doctor. But it very much portrayed not just the healthcare system, but specifically doctors as part of the corruption, part of the problem.

Not all the physicians on the show, but that, and that was what really pushed me away from it, is that I didn't feel that that was a fair representation of us either. How surprising. I know. The system is bad. There are good and bad people in bad systems. There are good and bad people in good systems, by the way.

Are you ready to talk about the pit? So I'm gonna talk about the pit. So wait, before you talk about the pit, because it's Max Fun Drive, could you tell me about the pit in a way where we have a little bit of fun? So you know that I've been in several rooms, not a lot, where I've had to pitch TV shows to people,

right, so I was thinking maybe as a way of explaining the pit to me, I could be like a TV executive, and you could pitch the pit to me like it's your idea that you just came up with, right? So it's a cold room, it's so stressful, you walk in, I'm the exec from HBO Max 2. It's the second, we're bringing back HBO Max with a sequel, right?

And we haven't told Max about it yet. So Max is gonna be so mad when they hear HBO Max 2 is the new, new kid on the block. And we're trying to get a slate of programming. So that's our spiel where we're at with HBO Max 2. Tell me about the pit, because I saw this on my schedule today and I was so excited to have you come in

to the office today. Okay, can I have a whiteboard? Yeah, put the whiteboard up. Yeah, we've got, if you look, the marker's right behind you. The whiteboard's eight feet long. I don't know how you missed it. I'm gonna, okay, first of all, can I ask you, do you remember the television show ER?

Yes, please. The wildly popular, groundbreaking television show. I've been in Hollywood for 30 years. That's why they call me Paul Hollywood. Okay, so I'm just gonna write two letters up on the whiteboard. You're writing E? Okay, now you're writing an R.

That's a big R. Yeah, E-R. Okay, now. This is really good. I'm going in front of E-R. Okay. Like before that. Okay. There's a word before it now. And here it is.

before that, the word before it now. And here it is. Now do you see what I've written here? I can't, as big as the whiteboard is, I can't make it out. Could you read it to me? I wrote more. What? I wrote more.

More. More ER. Do you remember how ER ended and everybody said, no, we love that, could we have more? Well. That's more ER. Can I tell you something? That pitch would work.

This is, do you know the? You can tell the reference. No, I'm not gonna tell. That's why I was opening the door for you to tell the reference story. No. I was opening the door for that. This was the reference.

When Jason Cameron went into pitches equal to alien, he went in, I read this in Blackjack, he went into a big whiteboard and he wrote the word alien, right? And then he wrote an S at the end of it. And then he put two lines through it and turned it into a dollar sign and then walked out of the room.

It's the best pitch. That this was, I was, thank you. This was my reference. That was for you. I love that story, so it was a gift. That was a gift to you. So I don't wanna be reductive. I think this is a really great show.

I have not finished the season, so I won't be spoiling all the arcs of the season. It has some things about it that make it different than ER. The formatting is different. But I think that- That is not what we were pitched. Excuse me, we're gonna have to pump the brakes. The vibe is ER.

The vibe is, and if you enjoyed ER, I think you would enjoy the show. And then of course, the main character, Dr. Robbie, is played by Noah Wiley, who is the chief of this emergency room of the ER in the show. who is the chief of this emergency room of the ER in the show. And while he is not a grown up Dr. Carter,

it is not hard if you are a big fan of ER to watch and think, so this is where Carter ended up. I mean, it's not that, it's not a stretch. Yeah, but it's like, I think, headcanon, right? Like, yes, absolutely. No, it's not part of the show. That is not the part of the show. That is not the fiction of the show.

He is a different guy named Dr. Robbie. He's a totally different guy. But you can imagine that if you want. If you're like me and you want to, you can. So it is called The Pit. I thought they were calling the ER the pit. Like, that's where they are. They're practicing in like the pit.

I figured it was about Pittsburgh. Well, yes it is. Okay. I didn't figure that out to the first, I started the first episode and they were like, welcome to the pit. And I was like, nobody calls their ER, I mean, I don't wanna say nobody, somebody might somewhere.

It is P-I-T-T. Well, I don't know. No, but it's because they're at a Pittsburgh hospital that is colloquially known as the pit. You went to the pit. Is this a real hospital, Neo? Well, honey, I don't know. Well, allow me to look it up while you talk about the show.

I'll look it up and put it into that stuff. Yeah, I don't know if it's a real hospital. It's a fictional Pittsburgh Trauma Medical Hospital. There you go. Good news for you, Sid. It's already been renewed for a second season. Thank goodness. So here, a couple things that are special about it,

just in the formatting of the show, I didn't realize it until I turned it on, it's in real time. So like episode number one starts at 7 a.m. and it runs through 8 a.m. It is the first literal hour of Dr. Robbie's shift in the ER that day, and it is the first, and of Dr. Robbie's shift in the ER that day. And it is the first, and it is an hour long.

I mean, like it is, it mimics what an hour in the ER feels like in an hour. And I think that is such a cool idea. Then obviously ER didn't do that, right? An ER episode could span days, you know? But to see the number of things, like that's always kinda, I think, been the draw of medical shows,

is to see the intensity, the moments when people have to do, I think they do heroic things on the show. I mean, I know that sounds conceited because I am a physician, but I think working in healthcare, occasionally, people just casually do heroic things and then go about their day and it's no big deal. And there are other professions where that's true,

but this is the one I know. And I think that in other shows, they show that, but because, I don't know, it's all, you have no sense of like, well, did they save those lives over the course of a year or a day or whatever? In this, they show you what an hour is like in a busy ER. And that's interesting.

There have been other shows that have tried to do the real time thing. Obviously the most notable is 24, which was all, it was 24 hours of a day. Each 44 minute episode of the show was an hour. So you could imagine there's always 16 minutes of time on ER where it's like not much happens, right? But-

We get, well, they were in the bathroom or something. Actually, no, that's part of the action. A lot of shows can't keep it up. There's some that do like individual episodes. I wanted to go for a list because I thought there might be some I was forgetting. They mentioned a MASH episode here called Lifetime that is in real time. I guess there was a Grace Anatomy episode

that was the same way. Movies too, what is the Nick of Time? There's a Johnny Depp movie where he's trying to like rescue his kidnapped daughter in a mall. It's 90 minutes in the night. But I always wonder with shows like that, like does it feel, because you have to maintain, and they don't have commercial breaks on this show, right?

So it's like, you have to maintain a level of action that, does it feel artificial, I guess, that they're trying to do this in real time? Is it realistic that things would be this like compact? that does it feel artificial, I guess, that they're trying to do this in real time? Is it realistic that things would be this compact? Does it feel real? So I am, again, I'm not an ER doctor, but I've spent a lot of time,

I've done a ton of hospital medicine in my career as leading an inpatient service, and so I have spent a lot of time in busy ERs, and obviously in residency, you spend a lot of time in a busy ER. Not as busy as this ER, we're not as big a city. We would, on our worst days, I think we may reach what they demonstrate in the show,

maybe, but still, it's not typically that busy. I would say that it is pretty accurate. They are cherry picking a little. I mean, obviously it's a TV show, so they're allowed to. But if it were a real ER and you were really walking, like if you're following just one doctor through their shift in an ER, you would have a lot of stuff

that probably wouldn't make very good television interspersed in the things that they demonstrate. So like you would have these very gory traumas where you have to act very quickly and stop bleeding and be creative to save somebody's life and restart people's hearts. And although we don't really do that very often. And all of that-

You always have to mention that, Sydney. We know you don't bring people back to life that often. I mean, I don't, again, this is why I shouldn't be at parties. But there's that stuff. But then there's like a lot of ER mean, I don't, again, this is why I shouldn't be at parties. But there's that stuff. But then there's like a lot of ER visits that I'm sure we have all been,

maybe the patient or know somebody who has, like a visit that because you couldn't access healthcare in another way, you didn't know what else to do. So you went to the ER. So you went to the ER because you ran out of your blood pressure medication and you couldn't get ahold of your doctor or you don't have a doctor, your insurance ran out or you moved to a new place and you ended up going to the ER because you ran out of your blood pressure medication and you couldn't get ahold of your doctor or you don't have a doctor or your insurance ran out

or you moved to a new place and you ended up going to an ER because you were scared what happens if my blood pressure gets high and I'm not really sick but I don't know what to do. There are a lot of things like that because our healthcare system is so broken that they don't show on the pit.

And I mean, I understand why, I don't know. I mean, that was- How do you make that near, like how do you make that interesting or compelling? It's boring and it also, I understand why, I don't know. I mean, that was- How do you make that near, like how do you make that interesting or compelling? It's boring and it also, I think that it, I mean, I think, and maybe they'll discuss it at some point. Maybe that will be part of it. This shouldn't have been an ER visit.

This is the kind of thing that we should, and it's, but the problem is you don't wanna blame the patient for that. Cause the reason people come to the ER for stuff that isn't ER stuff is because it got no other option. Right. Right. We do have,

because what is it you always say? We do have single payer healthcare and we just have the least efficient system. Yeah, we have universal healthcare in this country because of MTALA. We cannot turn you away from the ER, but it is the most expensive, least efficient, and the least effective for your health.

Because the ER is, their job is to find the true emergencies and get them in the hospital to fix them, and then triage out people who can go see another doctor the next day. Their job is not to provide for your chronic care. And so you're never really getting the chronic care that you need in an ER. But anyway, back to the pit.

I don't wanna, I promise I wouldn't be a bummer. I do think it's fairly reflective of if you were to just condense the most dramatic things that are happening in a busy big city ER at any given time, you would get an episode of the pit, especially since they follow multiple doctors. I think that makes it a little more fair. If it was one doctor whose entire ER shift

was just nonstop drama, that would be unrealistic. How do they handle that in the show, Sid? Because I feel like ER was so defined by, well, I say ER, but really all these medical shows, right? It's always about a team. Like it's always about, except for House, which was obviously he had a team, but it was about House. But he had a team too, right. But it was about House, except for House, which was obviously he had a team, but it was about House.

But it was about House, right? How do they make it seem like he's not just like the, how do they balance that? Because I feel like we have moved away from like saintly hero doctor as a template. You know what I mean? So like, how do they make it seem like it's not just the Noah Wiley show?

Well, okay. It is a little, a little it is, and not in a bad way. So we start with his shift. I think that's a really powerful way to move into, and in all honesty, that was the first episode of ER, was it was actually Mark Green's shift. You were following his whole, now it wasn't in real time, but that was the opening.

You wake up with him in the call room. So you're following Noah Wiley's shift, and so I do think that kind of immediately puts you in his perspective. And there's a through line, so there's all the other doctors, but it's important that we're following Dr. Robbie on this day, and you find this out immediately, so I don't really think this is a spoiler.

He is working on a day of the year that he traditionally takes off. It is unusual that Dr. Robbieby would be working on this day because it is the anniversary of the death of his mentor and predecessor as chief of the ER, who died of COVID during the height of the pandemic five years ago. And so he's working a shift that is specifically very hard

and traumatizing for him to be at. And we don't know all that, like the details of that are slowly unveiled through the, you know, so far through what I've watched and I assume we'll find, there is some level on which you can tell he blames himself and we don't really know why. But throughout the episodes, while we're slowly getting insight

into each of these other doctors, we're getting a lot more insight into Dr. Robbie. I would say that, I mean, his segments, if you went minute to minute, I'm sure we'd get more screen time with him than anybody else. And then the other thing is he has flashbacks. He's standing in an ER room taking care of a patient

in the present, and then he'll have a momentary flashback where he's in the same room and he's wearing his PAPR, the big space hood looking thing that everybody ordered in COVID. And he's surrounded by patients, you know, just packed in every room, three and four people, all on ventilators, pictures of their loved ones taped to the machines, the thing, the COVID thing.

I get choked up when I think about it too much, I'm sorry. But he's surrounded by COVID again, and nobody else quite gets that kind of insight. So it is a little bit the Noah Wiley show, but they pull away from that very quickly. It's kind of cool, the way they do it is like, you'll have one character who you've been following their narrative and then they stop to talk to somebody and another character just sort of enters the scene

and the camera follows them to the next thing. Yeah, it's a great technique. And that's the way that they guide you to the next character story. They are gonna do, I'm looking at this, it looks like 15 hours for this first season. So Sydney, do you think it's a missed opportunity that it's not like 35 hours?

So like, shouldn't it fall on interred that you get to hour 30 and they're not even like making sense anymore? Like you can't even follow storylines. Like there's a whole episode where they're just trying to nap and no one will let them. Well, can I say that would be, I think that would be a real great idea for a next season.

I mean- It just picks up. He's like, well, this has been one crazy day. It's like, it's just getting started. We got another 15 hours to go, Robbie. Well, I mean, I do think that that would, that might terrify, this might become a horror movie if you had to watch, if you had to be in the mind

of a resident who's been on call for 36 hours and has been awake that long. And I don't know if, I don't know how you would reflect the amount of caffeine that is generally coursing through your system and what that does to your brain at hour 36. Sid, I wanna talk more about the pit, but first I did wanna remind everybody

that it's MaxFun Drive Time. And that means that if you can say, hey, I love this stuff, I want it to keep happening. I'm going to pledge, let's say you can say five bucks a month to make this happen. You go to maxfunfun.org forward slash join, you're going to get so much bonus content that you won't even believe it. If you're already a donor, by the way, and you haven't checked out some of this stuff, go to maxfunfun.org forward slash how to Boko. And you can find all the information we've got this year.

A Sawbones Nights Medical Mystery is our bonus episode. Sydney and I played at NYC Emergency Room Board Game, and it was a lot of fun. And you get to meet Nurse, what was her name? Nurse Tammy? Was our Nurse Judy. Nurse Judy. Nurse Judy and all the great characters there.

And there's a lot more. There's like heck, 11, 12 hours of sawbone stuff, just sawbone stuff. Just sawbones. The main thing is you're helping us to make the shows possible. What that means is that if you pledge five bucks a month to Maximum Fun, the majority of that is gonna go

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like kind of a silly medical podcast. It makes me really thankful and proud that we have a source of information right now that I know is accurate and reliable and that we can be that for people and that we can provide that when other people don't seem to be that interested in providing that kind of truth and insight.

And it's just your donations that make us able to do that. Yeah, you're part of that. Yeah, you're a big part of that. You are the reason it happens. Exactly. Maximumfund.org forward slash join is the address. If you can do it right now while you're thinking about it. If it lets you can do 10 bucks a month, that's amazing.

Wow, that would be cool. Cause you're gonna get a pin. Have you seen our pin, Sid? I have Justin. You know what it says on there? It says kill all the mosquitoes. Which is not a very sawbones vibe, you know, like advocating violence,

but we thought let's mix it up, right? Who can we turn our anger against? And it's mosquitoes, folks. Listen, we've done the work. We went to entomologists. Guys, we took this bold theory to a room full of entomologists and said, where are you guys at? We're killing all the mosquitoes.

And these entomologists were like, probably should kill all the mosquitoes. Right, and their job is to like, defend all the bugs, I think. I think that's their job, is like to protect bugs. But they don't wanna protect mosquitoes. So let's kill all the mosquitoes for just 10 bucks a month. You're gonna get an animal,

you can get it from any show, but that's the best one. For, and we have other pledge gifts at maximumfund.org for it's last join, but really, it's just about supporting the media you likeorg for it's last join, but really, it's just about supporting the media you like, and it's about supporting stuff you like. And if you could do that for us, it would really mean a lot.

We only do this once a year, and if you don't go support the shows, then we can't make them, so please. Thank you. Sid, the most interesting thing to me with medical shows, because you and I watch them together, so I get to experience this in real time, how do they handle jargon?

Where is jargon at? Because I think jargon is so interesting with these shows, because you have some where like, okay, Scrubs handles it by only using jargon when they wanna communicate that a character is confused, or that they're being smart. So if a character has an answer in Scrubs, it's a jargon. And sometimes House will use jargon to show

why he's smarter than the other people in the room. They don't want the audience to guess what he's thinking. So House can use medical terminology. He uses jargon like that, because he wants the audience to be lost, right? So how does the pit handle that? Because I think that when you bring jargon into it, you are adding realism, but you're also risking,

I think losing the audience so they're not being able to follow the story. I think that is why you see so many shows that are set in teaching hospitals. Oh, interesting. I think that's how you, so if you, the way that the pit is structured, and this is similar to Grey's Anatomy,

you have, in this show you've got Noah Wiley, who's the chief, he's the attending in the ER. So he's done with all his training, he runs the ER. He's just, he could just use jargon the whole show if it was just him, because he knows what he's talking about. But underneath him, you now have senior residents, junior residents, so in various years of residency,

interns, first, second, third, fourth years. And you've also got medical students. And they introduce themselves, I thought it was interesting, I mean, I guess most people could figure it out. They like introduce themselves and they're like, so and so, MS4, so and so, MS three. I'm assuming most people know that means they're a med student in their third year and fourth year.

Med student three. Med student four, you know, that's what they're. Anyway, so you have all levels of learners in the ER. And so that helps. And then you also have doctors explaining things to patients and specifically, they actually have one character who gets criticized a lot. Anyway, she gets, Dr. Mohan,

she gets criticized a lot because she spends too much time with her patients. And part of that is her explaining things to patients in ways they will understand. So I think when you have characters like that, it also helps they have a social worker whose job is to explain things to characters in ways that the doctors didn't.

And then I really think that's part of the draw of teaching medicine in these shows is that then there's a reason for two doctors to be standing at a bedside and make a decision, leave the room, and for one doctor to look at the other and say, did you understand why we did that, this, leave the room, and for one doctor to look at the other and say, did you understand why we did that, this, this, this, and this, that's real, that's all real, we do that.

And with med students, especially when you're in your third year, I don't know that they know all the terminology yet, and they probably don't. And so there are times where I might use some jargon and then I might quickly define the jargon as soon as I say it, just to, so I don't put them on the spot and then also to reinforce what that,

I mean, they're learning a new language and I wanna reinforce this new language as they start to feel comfortable using it. Do you feel like the blood of medical shows throughout TV have, or especially recently, do you think they've increased the like literacy of, as these shows become more realistic, do you think that people are more literate,

like medically literate when it comes to TV show? Not like the actual system, but like, they can handle a bit more as we move forward, right? It can be a little bit more realistic and jargony because we've been hearing a lot of this jargon for 30 years. Yes, I definitely think there are probably terms that I can use, the medical terminology or abbreviations

that I could just toss out. Do you know what an MI is? Myocardial infraction, infarction? Myocardial infarction. Or colloquially. You want me to know the colloquial name for a myocardial infarction? I think a lot of people when they hear MI have learned that-

If you could take, it would be so personally meaningful to me if you would take like a half second. If you would just take a half second. It would be so personally meaningful to me. It was impressive that you knew what MI stood for. That was very impressive. You know, Wayne, if you're not careful, you're gonna lose me.

Yes, that was very impressive. I just meant, I do think that there are some terms that have seeped into the lexicon. I mean, I think most people know immediately when we say EKG that we're worried about your heart. And that, you know, I mean, so I do think that like some things have because of these medical shows. I think that there's still a lot that you can learn

from them about the system. I mean, I would not say that these medical shows are a great place to learn about medicine. Certainly, I will say a lot of it on this show is pretty accurate. What they're demonstrating looks pretty much like things look and people survive things that they generally could survive

and we see the consequences when it is something that we can't fix or save. And I think they're really honest about that. They tackle some things that I think, they're not medical concepts, but I do think are important for people to talk about. There's an elderly person who has advanced directives that say don't intubate him,

but his adult children show up and are demanding that he be intubated. And so we see that drama play out. And that I think is like a real, I mean, I can tell you that happens. It is not uncommon. I've been the doctor in that situation many times in my career.

And it is as heart wrenching as it seems on the show, every single time to try to figure out what is the right thing, ethically, legally, medically, how do I, and how do I make the people in the room feel okay with the decision that we're all about to make. It is so difficult on the show and that echoes real life. So I think there are moments like that that are instructive.

They also talk a lot, and I think this is maybe what they wanted to do with this show. In ER, they talk about, like in the original ER, they talk about HMOs, and they talk about like underfunding in medicine and shutting down ERs. They talk about some of that stuff, but it's always sort of like secondary to the relationship drama and like the personal drama,

you know, and like there's some like people are doing it and stuff like that. Whoa, are you telling me that love can bloom even in the ER? Even in the ER. But that- So can I take a guess? Is it? I'm seeing Dr. Cassie McKay, a 42 year old second year resident,

that makes her a non-traditional student. Is that the love interest for Dr. Robbie? Not that they have indicated in any way. It's your show, Sid, you gotta tell me, are you gonna get these two together or not, honey? I'm trying to sell this to HBO Max 3, by the way. HBO Max 2 got canceled, I'm so sorry. It's Max 3 now.

And I need love, I need romance, I need sex, I gotta sell, sex sells, what do you got? Honey, for all I know, he's married to somebody. They don't talk, I mean, they get a little bit into their personal lives at times, but like Dr. McKay has an ankle bracelet. And I don't know why. That's wild, that's a big swing.

Yeah, and so like, I mean like an electronic monitoring just in case that wasn't clear. I don't just mean she has a bracelet on her ankle. No, no, like a. Yeah, and like we don't know why. So there's all kinds of things we don't know about these. That's a great, man, if I was a TV writer, can I just say, as somebody who's done, who has had to script things on the fly before a lot,

that's great. What a great idea. Do that in your D&D campaign, folks. Put an ankle bracelet, put an ankle monitor on some character. You don't have to know. They may not know. But here in a few years, they'll be like,

oh yeah, this whole thing, I'm wanted. I'm a one-fellon. So, I mean, I think they very much wanna, they're separating some of that personal life drama to really focus on the trauma that their career has inflicted upon these characters. I mean, I really think that that's the point because we get a little insight into how medicine

has impacted them and less into how whatever's going on in their personal lives. So I don't think we're gonna have that kind of like, that sort of thing. The drama we're getting is, and I do think, man, I think this is gonna mark every medical show. We've talked about it on Dr. Odyssey. COVID is part of Dr. Odyssey, if you can believe it.

I think these post-COVID medical shows, and when I say post-COVID, COVID isn't over, by the way. I diagnosed cases of COVID. It's a shorthand for the world in COVID. I mean, is it accurate to say the pandemic is no longer an active pandemic? Right, right. We are moving into the,

which we knew would happen scientifically, we are slowly moving into the phase where it is becoming endemic in multiple countries, which will mean it will be hopefully less fatal overall, but it is still a serious illness. I diagnosed cases of it this week. There is an active outbreak ongoing in our community and in many communities right now.

COVID is still a thing. But there was a time period. There was a time period where it was, obviously it was different. It was a different thing. It's still a thing. It's just, it's changed as to how we think about it. When I say post-COVID, I mean in the world

where COVID exists. Yes. In this space, I think we're going to see a return to healthcare providers being a little more of the heroes. I think there's more sympathy. They treat these characters with a lot more care, with a lot a gentler lens. I think that there's more understanding for what they're going through. I think we see that in the show. We see them stand in a room and deliver heart wrenching news or there's a kid who maybe is gonna do a school shooting and then he runs out of the ER

and nobody knows where he went. And then everybody has to go on with their day. Knowing that that kid is out there may be gonna do something horrific. And then they have to go on with their day because that's their job. And so I think they do a really good job of humanizing doctors again and nurses, they're maybe gonna do something horrific, and then they have to go on with their day because that's their job. And so I think they do a really good job

of humanizing doctors again, and nurses, all healthcare professionals. I think most people like nurses. I think it's us doctors that need more humanizing because I mean, you know, I think to say that like, nurses are angels and heroes is not like a revolutionary statement. I think people have felt that way for a long time.

To say that doctors are heroes, I think it's controversial now. A lot of people hate us. A lot of people think we're part of the problem. And some of us are, I'm not saying we're all great, but I don't think most of us are part of the problem. But anyway, I think we're gonna see that. And I think we're gonna see the trauma

of living through and working through the pandemic, surviving the pandemic. I think there's a lot of survivor guilt among the medical community because we lost some of our colleagues. And I think we're going to see that playing out in these shows. And I'm glad that we're talking about it because it's part of the great, what did they call it? The great people are, it's quitting. It's a great quitting is what I'm going call it. People are quitting medicine, people are leaving the medical profession because they're traumatized, they're worn out. A lot of people don't like us very much.

And the system is so impossible to work in and do a good job anymore. It feels hopeless. And so I think that it's gonna talk about that. There's a lot, the administrator comes down and is like, you're keeping people in the ER too long, you need to move them through faster. And they're like, well, we can't,

because there are no beds upstairs. Well, the truth is there are beds upstairs, but they don't have nurses to staff them because the hospital doesn't wanna pay nurses a living wage. So they can't attract any nurses to staff these beds. So they shut down whole units and then people sit in the ER for days and days. This is all true. This is all true.

This is all true about the system that you are interacting with. And so I think that knowing that and absorbing that and then demanding something else is a really good thing that this medical drama could do. Now, Sydney, before we wrap up here, I did wanna say, and I know that Sawbones, we haven't talked about Natsui yet,

and I know Sawbones can't be just about medical TV, but shark attacks are a huge problem. And Dr. Odyssey has the guts to turn that into a two-part event. Honey, it's Shark Attack and then Shark Attack part two, Orca. And I'm just saying, if you could consider that for next week, Doctor Odyssey, Shark Attack, a very important two-parter, which just like the pit, highlighting important issues,

Shark Attack's in this case, and apparently Orca's. Honey, nothing would make me happier than to talk about Doctor Odyssey next week. Honey, nothing would make me happier than to talk about Dr. Odyssey next week. Well, nothing would make me happier than if people supported our show in the Max Fund Drive. Maximumfund.org forward slash join is the address. Again, five bucks a month, 10 bucks a month. I'm so happy that we get to make this show for you,

and I'm so grateful that your support has made that possible. It may seem like something that somebody else is gonna do, but I hope that you realize that it is an individual thing. It is a bunch of people individually making the decision that I want this to happen. I'm gonna support it and I can make a difference. And I know it may not seem like a big deal,

but it really does add up and it's allowed us to do the show for a decade and to pull on a good stuff out. And I really appreciate the opportunity to do that. Yeah, thank you so much. If you are a member already, thank you. If you're gonna donate or upgrade or boost this year, thank you, thank you.

Share the show, tell your friends. If you just listen to our show, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Share the show, tell your friends. If you just listen to our show, thank you. Thank you. Oh, and listen, if you can't donate, if you can upgrade a little bit or boost, you can even just a couple more bucks a month would be so hugely helpful. And if that's not a possibility, just share it around,

let people know that it's MaxFun Drive Time. I really appreciate it. That's gonna do it for us for this episode. Oh, thanks to the taxpayers for the use of their own medicines as the intro naturopath program. And thanks to you for listening. That's going to do it for us. Until next time, my name is Justin McElroy. I'm Sydney McElroy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. All right! Maximum Fun, a workaround network of artist-owned shows, supported directly by you.