Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: The Purification Rundown

Episode Date: March 2, 2017

Last week, we took you through detox. This week, we're going WAY deeper with a single treatment: The Purification Rundown. Strap in, folks, this one GOES PLACES. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We were shot through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines that escalate my cop for the mouth. Wow! Hello everyone and welcome to Saul Bones, a Marital Tour of Miscotted Medicine. I'm your co-host Justin McAroy. And I'm Sydney McAroy. Now, it's rare. Sydney is always excited about doing the show, but it is rare that Sydney is as excited as she has been about this episode that we're going to talk about today. That's right.

I am. I'm very excited, Justin. if you listened to our show regularly, you may know that last week we did an episode on detoxification as in products and therapies and processes that are supposed to cleanse you of toxins that exist in your body, that you don't know about, that doctors have no ability to test for, and therefore can't treat you for. So pay us us lots of money and we will do it for you.

Right. In my research, I came across a particular detox program and every once in a while this happens and it's very exciting when it does, I just started going down this rabbit hole and I when I realized where I had landed, when I realized the wonderland in which I had arrived, I was shocked and I knew it would be interesting and Justin would be very excited and it married it at its own episode.

Okay. So Justin, I'm gonna tell you the title of this and you have never heard of this before, correct? The purification rundown. Justin, I'm going to tell you the title of this and you have never heard of this before, correct? The purification rundown. No, I have never heard of the purification rundown. I solemnly swear. I'm going to tell you, there are people who have heard of this and right now they're

losing it. I'm going to tell you about the detox program known as the purification rundown, okay? So this is a specific process, again, just devoted to cleansing U of toxins that dates back to the late 70s. It was used by several different rehab groups in particular. Some names Narconon, Crimmonon, Second Chance, the International Academy of Detoxification Specialists. So a lot of big important, right, sounding, sounding groups were using this. And it was used for drug detox,

as well as the non-specific detoxing your body from various chemicals. The guiding concept behind this program is that chemical exposures are happening to you all the time. Specifically, the initial impetus for it was the idea that people who did LSD, the thought, the belief was that the reason that they might have flashbacks later is because LSD was kind of hiding in their fat cells. And so periodically you would have LSD released from your fat cells.

Just sneak back out. You would sneak back out, you would have LSD released from your fat cells. You would sneak back out. You would sneak back out, you would trip, and it was preventing you from being a successful member of society. And so the original birthplace of this purification rundown was for people specifically who had used LSD, even if they had used LSD, I mean years ago. So this was not like a drug detox,

like we think of, you know, you need to come down off of a substance kind of program. This was, you used it years ago, we think it is still preventing you from living a healthy life. So we're going to do this program on you. From there it spread, like I said, to everybody for non-specific toxins of all kinds.

Okay. Okay. They also thought this was the root of addiction. These lingering substances in your body. That makes a certain amount of sense. I can see how you would think that your body would just like hang on to that stuff if you weren't well versed. I asked myself. Did you pay any attention to science? Of solbums. Right. If you did listen to the podcast solbums. Then you might think that. You know, the thing is though, if you thought that, what you should probably do is test

to see if you're right, and then either prove or disprove your hypothesis. That is one of the facts. Let's just run with it. Okay. I'm running. I'm there. I'm with you. And in addition, what was cornerstone of this for people who began to try it and became part of this

program and became part of this way of life, really, is that doctors, what they would sell you on, if the doctors did not understand this, they didn't know how to diagnose you with it, they didn't know how to treat it. And so there was no other option. This is the only treatment because doctors don't even understand that it's a problem. It's so for thinking. Exactly.

That you can't even get diagnosed with it. So how in the world could a traditional physician ever treat you? Boring old by the numbers. Medical degree have a doctor. Boring old solbons. The foundation, the foundation of the program was spending a lot of time in SONAS, like

five hours a day in SONAS, lots of time in SONAS. Man, I don't know what field you're in with that kind of schedule, but I hope that your paperwork is laminated, because that's rough. There were a lot of facilities that would offer this program, so you would just go live this. Live this life. Live this for a while. I mean, certainly you could do it at home, but most people who were participating were going to a place to participate in the detox. So you would do Sauna's like five hours a day,

you would exercise a lot, you would eat a lot of fresh vegetables, that's fine. Initially, it was called the sweat program, and they also had a portion where you jogged a lot of fresh vegetables, that's fine. Initially, it was called the sweat program and they also had a portion where you jogged a lot while you wore a rubber suit, which obviously was kind of dangerous because of all of the massive loss of bodily fluids through sweat. Also, in that program, you took a lot of vitamins

and a teaspoonful of salt a day and lots of water. I'd probably get a teaspoon of salt a day, but just right now. Right. Well, you weren't taking a lot else in and this was a problem. People were getting really dehydrated on the old sweat program.

So it evolved into... When the salt purification run down. Actually, if you're losing a lot of water, would that help with hydrate you? Yeah, I mean, but if you're gonna jog in in a rubber suit, you're going to need more than some water and a teaspoonful of salt to keep you okay. Especially if then your other activity is spending all day in a sauna. In the run down, as it evolved, you would take mecha doses specifically of vitamin B3, niacin, like they would get you up to 5,000 milligrams a day by reference, most people are taking like 15 milligrams a day.

Wow. Even like where you prescribe mecha doses of niacin in certain cases, which we do sometimes not often, but we do, you would not prescribe doses like this. This is definitely beyond what we would consider a safe dose. Okay. Niasin, even at regular therapeutic doses, can cause flushing when you take it.

That's a very common side effect. I've told patients that before, when you take this, you might get hot and sweaty and flushed, very common. So basically, the way that they titrated your dose of niacin, slowly increase your dose of niacin to what they considered the therapeutic level you required. So the way they would titrate your dose is you would take one dose each day until and the flushing would happen of course. And the first day that you didn't flush,

they would bump your dose up. And then you would take that dose until you didn't flush and then they would bump your dose up again. Okay. And just keep going until they got you to that gold dose of 5,000 milligrams of niacin. What is this based on? Why would they just do that? Well, the belief was that there had been some early studies in niacin. And they, I mean, I think it was sort of like vitamin C when we did a whole episode on vitamin C where they had done some studies where they had attempted to treat some things with niacin

and they thought maybe they saw some results. And specifically, there was this belief that niacin could help with like radiation poisoning. And so they had done some early trials with that. And again, like this concept, like so, it fights radiation, maybe it fights other toxins or deadly substances and that kind of thing. So niacin was kind of in the scientific air, so to speak. It was an environment of interest. Yeah. The, um, the, it reminds me of something a theater professor used to call the, uh, the rubber chicken theory.

The wonderer chicken is funny. 1000 rubber chickens. A thousand times as funny. Like, just because something's good for you, does not mean that you cannot have too much of it. That's right. What do we, we've said it before on the show, the dose makes the poison. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Uh, uh, enough Nyson is necessary have too much of it. That's right. What we've said before on the show, the dose makes the poison.

Yeah. Yeah. Enough niacin is necessary. Too much niacin is dangerous. And this was shown because a lot of people got sick, by the way. And we'll get into how and why and how sick people got. But a lot of people got sick from doing this. In addition to all the niacin you were taking,

you would also drink a cup of pure vegetable oil every day. lot of people got sick from doing this. In addition to all the niacin you were taking, you would also drink a cup of pure vegetable oil every day. Yeah. There were a bunch of other minerals and vitamins and things you would take to support in addition, even though niacin was a cornerstone, you also had to take calcium, magnesium, zinc, iron. There were a bunch of other things. You would drink a lot of fluids, so which was, I mean, important considering how much you're probably sweating. Right. And then you also had to get a drink that they, that the inventor of this program specifically came up with. Okay. So you had to

buy this as well, or if you were already staying in the facility, they would supply you with this. It was just coming out the walls. I imagine you reached down the tube. It's always pumping it into your room. You had to drink multiple bottles of something called cow mag, cow mag, calcium magnesium cow mag, which was calcium gluconate, magnesium carbonate, apple cider vinegar and water. Yeah, and you would.

I'm not a scientist, but the words that you're saying right there sound like they would give you diarrhea. Like it sounds like diarrhea cocktail. That's not magnesium citrate will definitely give you diarrhea. Magnesium carbonate. I mean, there's magnesium in there. I don't know. I would worry that that

this program in any way, I mean, you're taking in a lot of liquids. You could eat fresh vegetables. So I guess you're getting some roughage in there, I don't know. I would worry that this program in any way, I mean, you're taking in a lot of liquids. You could eat fresh vegetables, so I guess you're getting some roughage in there. I don't know. I think diarrhea is a distinct possibility. One of these days I want to do a supplement. So it's just me, rapid fire naming things,

and you tell me if they could give you diarrhea. I don't know, Justin, if you try hard enough, I bet anything could give you diarrhea. If you're really believing in yourself. Yeah, if you put your heart into it. But you would drink this cow mag that you would either purchase or, you know, if you were staying at one of the detox facilities, they would supply you with at least three times a day. But as often as you could, it was definitely encouraged. The idea was that it would purify you, of course, that it would cleanse you if you had been on some sort of illegal substance, had an addiction problem before, that it would purify

you from it. Not only would your body be cleansed of the last remnants of whatever drug was in your system, but you would also be free of the addiction, because that's why you had the addiction. Because the drugs were in you? Right. Right. It also be free of the addiction because that's why you had the addiction. So if you... Because the drugs were in your... Right. So if you cleanse all the drugs out, you're not going to have any cravings, you're not going to want to do the drug anymore.

It will completely cure your addiction. Can you make a timeframe again? Whenabouts we're talking. How long you would do this? No, like what time of... Oh, it was like the late 70s and into the 80s. Okay. So not...

Still. That... Like we had science. Still being practiced today. into the 80s. Okay, so not still. That like we had science. Still being practiced today. We'll get there. Okay. Yeah, so the idea was that this would fix your addiction. It would also, by the way, help you survive radiation poisoning if it comes to that. And back in the 70s, this was I think more of a hot topic, I guess. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so it would help you survive radiation if you needed it. It will treat HIV, liver disease, heart disease, cancer, kidney disease, and obesity. It's a lot of things. It's a lot of things that it will treat. And back then, it would cost somewhere between $2,000 and $4,000 to do the whole program. The 90, sorry, that was actually, those are actually 90s prices or $2,000, $4,000 to do the whole program. The 90, sorry, that was actually, those are actually 90s prices or $2,000, $4,000. Today it would cost around $5,000.

And even more depending on which facility you use and how fancy it is, how jiji. Don't go buy the base of this though. You don't want the off brand stuff. They try to pad your cow mag out with tang. Now as I've mentioned, the purification rundown, while it arrived in the 70s, and it has been, I'm gonna tell you about how it's been much criticized.

It is still around today, it is still being practiced today, and there are actually even more facilities under these different rehab group names and many more that I've named that are doing this. Now, if you're not familiar with the name purification rundown, maybe you've heard it by its other name. It's also called the purif. You heard that name? No. No, never heard of the purif. Maybe you've heard it called the Hubbard method. No. As in the Elron Hubbard method. What? Yeah, this is a Scientology detoxification that we're talking about.

Oh, dunk! You can read the notes now. So Scientologists describe this detoxification program as a way of removing the toxins and drugs that are in your body that can cause biochemical barriers to spiritual well-being, to quote from their literature now, this is straight from a current site. The purification rundown is a tightly supervised regimen of exercise, sauna, nutrition, it is conducted in a properly ordered schedule

to include sufficient rest. It is obviously advertised as essential if you're going to join Scientology. Right. Because there are a lot of members of C or go through this. And they're not. But you know a lot, Justin, you know a lot more about Scientology than I do because you read that book.

Yeah, it was a while ago that I saw it. It's a little fuzzy. But the C org is kind of the elite of the elite of their sort of the the they will go through this program because this is how you get all of these blockages that are keeping you from your spiritual, you know, enlightenment from there also in my limited understanding very down on most pharmaceuticals exactly. So they believe that not just like heroin and stuff that we would think of as like, you need to get these drugs in the LSDI, your system, but rather. No, that's, no psychiatric medications. That's a big deal and that you would never use any medicines to help people get off drugs. And again, that the idea that addiction can be completely cured, that it would not be

something that would ever, I mean, that they believe that. If you go through the right program, you get over your addiction and you will never again crave whatever you were addicted to. This is probably a very contrary to this is probably a good time to mention city and I are not Scientology experts. We have a, a, an interest in Scientology for sure, but no, but we know we are also not Scientologists. No, no, you know They when they talk about why they think this works. You'll read cases specifically Like there was a Vietnam vet who had levels of agent orange that they tested for in his system

And then they did the program and it was all gone And then they tried this on victims of Chernobyl. Other thing that were gone, his bones, they all turned the liquid and fell out of him. They tried this on victims of Chernobyl and they found that they had reduced radioactive atoms after they did this program to them. There were some people who were detoxing from volume

and cocaine and they used the program and they talk about how helpful that was. And then the, I mean, these are like, these aren't studies. These are like what they cite as evidence, which are really just like anecdotes, case reports. Right. And then they're in this. They mention a lady who secreted black stuff through her pores because she got rid of so many toxins like lead mercury that were in her system.

And they use this as evidence that this Hubbard method can purify you, but obviously there are problems. I can't imagine what those might be. It seems okay to me. Alayman. I'm gonna tell you about the problems with the Hubbard method, but first, why don't we head to the billing department?

Let's go. The medicines, the medicines that ask you make my car before the mouth. The Dead Pilots Society podcast brings you hilarious comedy pilots that were never made featuring actors like Aubrey Plaza, Andy Richter, Paul F. Tomkins, John Hodgman, Adam Scott, Molly Shannon, Busy Phillips, Tom Lennon, Anna Camp, Laurie Metcalf, Alicia Day, Michael Ian Black, Adam Savage, Paul Sheer, Ben Schwartz, Skylar Astin, May Whitman, Josh Malena, Ben Feldman, Cole Bire, Jason Ritter, Sarah Chalk, Steve A.G., Jane Levy, Allison Tollman, Daniel Nicolette, Casey Wilson, Anority, Lorraine Newman, June Diane Raphael, Kurnichipka, Ed Week,

Zach Knight, and Carrie Kenney Silver, John Ross, Maui, Jamie Denbow, Janet Varnie, Alexander Varnie, Alexander Varnie, Alexander Varnie, Alexander Varnie, Alexander Varnie, Alexander Varnie, Alexander Varnie, Alexander Varnie, Alexander Varnie, Alexander Varnie, and many more. Listen, at maximumfund.org,org iTunes or wherever you download podcasts. Siby, I'm here to lob us about the purification run down not being great for your body. Can you fill me in on that? Well, okay. There are a couple problems that some of which I've already alluded to. There have been several cases and maybe more.

It gets as I tried to read for lists of who has been harmed by the purification rundown, it gets kind of sticky as you may imagine. Scientologists do not want you to know that it could be life threatening or indeed fatal, which in some cases it has been. And it's really difficult to find straightforward news, like actual reports of these cases. So what I find are a lot of stories from probably family members who are trying to get the word out. Like, you know, my sister, cousin, dad, uncle, daughter, whoever went and did this and they got super sick and they were in the hospital.

Or I know that this led to their death or something, but it's really hard for me to pin down actual events because it, I think it's been kind of maybe covered up. What about something? Something Scientology is a bit of a quesadot. This fit. The question that you may or may not have the answer to is this something that's just open to Scientologists or can you get up in there? No, it is no, you can get up in there.

It is not just open to scientists. Okay, great. But it is necessary for certain scientists depending on where they are in the hierarchy. It's just like a church camp that gets in with the fun stuff. The fun, easy things, and then you hear about the religion. And then you got to sit in the sauna for five hours and drink mag cal. But the vitamin dose that you're taking, that niacin dose, like I said, it is toxic.

You run the risk of severe dehydration. And that's what most of the cases that I've seen of hospitalization as a resultant from this are for dehydration, severe dehydration. Also severe electrolyte disturbance, largely because of all the sweating and loss of body fluids and not being able to replace them. And that doesn't sound like a big deal.

Like so what, you don't have enough electrolytes, like drink a gatorade, we're gonna fix it. But I mean, if your electrolyte disturbances are severe enough, you can have seizures, you can have fatal heart arrhythmias. Electrolite disturbances are a big deal. That's why you can't have too much gatorade. Well, I mean.

Right. That's what you always tell me, don't drink so much gatorade. Well, there's also like sugar. And a lot of sugar in a gatorade. Yeah, guys, it's more that probably. Yeah, if you really want to rehydrate pdolite, it's probably your best bed. I don't like it. It tastes salty.

But these people, pdolite, would not have been enough for. No. These were hospitalizations in the world. And kidney failure as a result of the dehydration. There were a lot of reports in people who had underlying chronic diseases becoming very ill. There were some reports of people who maybe went blind, who had diabetes, who went blind as a result of this program

There were people who had heart attacks as a just if they had underlying heart disease especially as a result of this program And like I said, I think there were some people who had seizures and weren't taken for problem Proper medical care and actually died as a result of this It is acknowledged as part of the program that you probably will get sick. I mean, that's an accepted part of it is that, you know, generally people get really dehydrated and generally taking all that nice and is gonna make some people puke

and they're gonna have trouble tolerating it. For members like of seorg, for members of Scientology, you're expected to kind of grin and bear it. Like listen, this is what, like, do you wanna get pure or not? Do you wanna get clear? I mean, that's what it is. Like you're going clear.

Do you wanna get clear or not? This is what you're supposed to do. And generally taking people to actual physicians is not part of the plan. Yeah. I don't want to do that. They're going to try to avoid that. There was one story I read from a former Scientologist who was kind of left and talked

about her experience. She was a seer. Actually, this is back when she was 14 when she had to do the purif. Multiple times because she just could not tolerate the niacin. It made her so sick and she, they kept trying to raise her dose and she just was puking and sick as could be. And finally they said, you know what, it looks like actually the problem is we've over treated you.

We are already clear. That's the problem. It was going good. It was great. We already cleaned you out and then we kept it going and that was the problem. So like you clear. That's the problem. It was going good. It was great. We already cleaned you out and then we kept it going and that was the problem. So like you're done. Don't worry.

Actually good on you because you got through it very quick. You did a very good, quick job at it. Fast for a week thought. You must not have had a lot of toxins in you. Mm. You didn't tell us you didn't have many toxins. That's kind of on you. Well, bye.

The auditing didn't go as well as they thought. Now, here's the reason I found this detoxification program is because when I was looking at detoxes, I stumbled across initially something called the New York Rescue Workers Detoxification Program that had been promoted by Tom Cruise. And I thought, this seems very odd, what could this be? So the purification rundown was used in 2003

under this name, the New York rescue workers detoxification program to help rescue workers From 9-11. I sounds like my homies in Scientology. I was trying to clothe their stuff. They know they know you sometimes you see something on TV and you're like, hmm, that sounds pretty good We should do each other nice and try to live good lives. And then you call them, they're like, hello, this is Scientology, we got you again. Like, ah, come on. Is that what those commercials for the society for better living or what?

No, they did have some. Remember, we got that DVD. Yeah, we did get that DVD. Yeah. No, after 9-11, Scientologists saw, I mean, that there were a lot of things in the air that people were inhaling. And this is true, we know this, that the air quality was bad at ground zero for a period

of time. And when the EPA came in and said, we now feel like it's safe, like what has been in the air is no longer there, and it is safe again to be at ground zero. Like in Tom Cruise was on, I think it was like Larry King's saying like, yeah, but there's no way that's true. We know that's a lie. We know that's not true

and we just had to do something and so this is what they did. They set up two clinics in New York to help address what they saw as the detoxification needs from all the chemical exposures in the air. So there was one called downtown medical that was like two blocks from ground zero. And then there was another one out on Long Island. And what they did at these facilities was the purif was the purification run down.

That was they just took that Scientology program and did it there. They treated some 800 and some rescue workers from September 11th with it. And while they did it, they discouraged them from receiving any other traditional medical care. They said, this is enough. We got this. I'm glad we can't curse on this show. We'd have to take an extended pause here. And it's hard to say, you know, some rescue workers said they felt better afterwards. But it's good. That's happy that that is an experience that they have. We don't have real evidence that anything happened. But there was a lot of attention as you can imagine on this program because we have a. Tom Cruise was their handy dog spying police officers. I'd go see that too. And the problem is that if you read about this,

there were a lot. OK, so first of all, this received $900,000 of public funding, public funding. Because for a lot of politicians initially, it was hard to under, I don't think they understood what they were buying into. And so you have doctors, I mean, they have doctors, like they had actual doctors who now, I don't know if they are a Scientologist or just believe in this or believe in Scientology,

whatever, who came and worked at these clinics and said, we're offering a program to help 9-11 rescue workers who need to recover from being exposed to stuff in the air. And if you're a politician and you didn't really do your homework, I can see you saying, well, yeah, yeah, we'll give money to that, absolutely. Like these were our heroes, we need to help them. So of course, we'll give money to that. So it got a lot of public funding.

There were a lot of people who kind of like initially supported and then realized what they were supporting and had to do like a quick. They got them again. You see? Yeah. They got them. They had to do like a quick. I think like Schumer was one of them who like initially was like, yeah, and then was like, whoa, no, no, wait, what, what?

Is this? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, I don't think I ever got a guy. Yeah, you hear a promoting mission in Possible Zeppelin because if not, sir, I'm actually giving me the depart. It was a lot of people who, you know who were there and then realized what they were promoting. And I have to wonder, there were a lot of celebrities who donated money to this. Like there was $2.3 million total donations for this, a lot from high profile celebrities. In addition to Tom Cruise, who obviously gave

lots of money for this. Paul Newman, Paul McCartney, Adam Sandler, Will and Jada, like a lot of people donated money to this, who I don't think are Scientologists, I mean, I know Tom Cruises, but I don't know. And that makes me wonder, did they know what they were donated money to? Did they think it was just a medical program

to support 9-11 rescue workers? Probably not. I know that those people, I'm fairly certain that people you listed are scientists. I don't think so. I don't think so, but I know. I mean, like, Lear Amini gave a bunch of money, but she used to be a Scientologist, so. Yeah, and yeah. Some of that money did go to two Scientology groups, the foundation for advancements in science and education,

which sounds like legit. Classic Scientology, quote. And the association for better living and education, again, which sounds really nice. But they were both Scientology groups and they did get some of this money that went to this 9-11 rescue workers. That's fun.

Program. Today, it is still promoted by face, what I mentioned, the foundation for advancements in science and education, and the health med clinic, as well as there was a book Diet for a Poison Planet, which was not written by a Scientologist, but was essentially the same thing. I mean, it was. It was the purification rundown released

as a non-scientologist publication. The Church of Scientology tried to get Hubbard and Nobel for this, by the way. They were really hard to get all the Elrana Nobel Prize for his purification rundown. Now, it has been criticized over and over again by medical organizations and independent researchers who have tried to reproduce any of its claims, the Niasin, the Magcow, the sweating, anything. Any of it. Any of it. The only evidence that they've ever been able to produce

that it's helpful in addition to the testimonials I mentioned, people who went through it and said, yeah, I think I feel better now. In addition to that, they would hang, especially in the downtown medic, where they did the downtown medical, where they did the New York Rescue Workers program, they would hang towels with a lot of like stains,

like brown and black stains outside the clinic to show like, look at what we're getting out of our heroes. Look at the toxins we've gotten out of them. We've collected them on these towels as evidence. No, the foot pads? No, not on foot pads. Your candles? No, no, no, no, no, air candles, towels, detox towels, special ones. So, so like I said, it can make you sick. We've never been able to prove that it can do anything independently. In addition, just the whole impetus for this was LSD. Remember that.

And that's when I talked about it in a clarify who did this. Al Rohn Hubbard was trying to find a way to get members when he was out on his yacht. I always get confused with that movie, the master. When he was out on his yacht with all the people that he was coming up with with their original like dynetics with. When they were floating around on their boat, there were people who were having like flashbacks and he needed a way to get them all pure, to get them all clear, so they wouldn't have this anymore. So he just pulled it from my LSD. So he just pulled something out of his butt. Why not?

Exactly. So that's what he did. And you know, after a while they actually stopped letting if you used to use LSD, they wouldn't let you in C org. Oh, really? Yeah, even though they have this, like they have this purif. Well, they certainly were used to the boat. The point is LSD is out of your body in about 24 hours. So I mean, this isn't even like the the very basis of it to get that residual LSD out of your body. That's not a thing. Okay. That's not something we need to worry about. So here's the scary thing. Narcanon is still out there rehabbing patients with what they call the new life detoxification program. I mean, dozens of centers worldwide. Like I looked at one place and I counted all the centers and I counted 38.

And I mean, they're all over the world. Like there's some in the US, they're in Mexico, they're in Australia, they're in Russia, there's ton and Italy, they're all over the world. Like, there's some in the US, they're in Mexico, they're in Australia, they're in Russia, there's ton and Italy, they're everywhere. They're all over the world. But I counted those and I was like, so they're about 38 worldwide. And then I found like, it redirected me to like something, Narkinon Easter something,

which was a whole other host of centers. I thought, is Mark the man, I'm like, real group? They do this. This is what they do. I mean, on a real group. They do this. This is what they do. I mean, they do other things. They do other parts like group therapy and things like that, but they do the detox program. It is no longer a sign,

like they no longer claim that they are Scientologists, like they don't claim that, but like them follow the money, follow the money. It's all going back. We get to say that literally on this show. Yeah, it's, I mean, this is, this was an offshoot of Scientology, like that's where this comes from.

They were doing, Narconal was doing free, like don't do drugs programs for kids in California schools for a while. Gross. And like promoting this. And then they realized what was happening and like they looked over the literature and they were not only were they promoting a

Scientology based program, but they were also giving out inaccurate information about addiction. Because like I said, they don't understand addiction based on this program. I just think that I did an knock on was a Scientology thing. And I mean, these these places are all over and this happens a lot where I found a lot of casers were like public money would be used to send people who were you know battling addiction to one of these programs. And then it would it would because it wouldn't come to light. I mean because you do that all the time. You see like judges force people to go into a rehabilitation program as opposed to going to jail. And these programs kind of get slid in there sometimes if people aren't aware what they're, and they change their names.

There's all kinds of other names, like these are just some of the names. But it's easy, like you click on, if you go to one of the Narconon sites and you click on new live detoxification program, it's what I just told you. Like the niacinus there, the sonas are there, they don't make it sound so scary,

but I mean, it's not, they don't hide that. Well, you wouldn't want to show up, right? And if you look at a Narcanon website, they talk about the founder of the detox program being Elron, they've got a picture of them on there. Whoo! So, I mean, it's there, like, it's not that hidden. Let me say that, I don't mean to make them sound sinister

and they're like, it's not that hidden, you can find it. Yeah. What they'll say though is that it is, they have branches that are secular in that they are not scientists, they will not try to get you to join Scientology. They are not using those principles, but they are using this detox

because they believe it is scientifically founded. So it's not religious at Scientib. When you say the sentence, they believe it is scientifically found that I actually get literal hives. Hives cover my bot. Folks, that's going to do it for us this week. Thank you so much for joining us. Special programming note, woo, woo, special programming note, alert, alert, alert. We've got

a fun treat for you next week. If you don't know, if you don't listen, we have sort of a, well not us, we didn't have anything to do with it, but a quarter-pointed is a podcast that Sydney's uncle Michael and her dad, Tommy. Tommy, make about law, and it's similar to solvents, but kind of a more legal take. Yeah, Michael's a lawyer, and he talks about funny laws in the history of law things,

and my dad makes dad jokes about it. So next week we've got a sort of a two-parter show. I guess you could call it that that's going to be about. We're going to talk about like patient privacy and sort of the history of HIPAA and then the doctor patient confidentiality and those kinds of issues but from like medical and legal perspective. So it's going to be fun but we're going gonna be in addition to that sort of two part, looking at it from two perspectives, we're really switching our dumb guys. So those are just insorts, not mine.

It was never cause me more of my dad dumb guys. I'm gonna be over on court appointed, talking about this, and Tommy, Sydney's dad is gonna be on Solvon's next week, so it's gonna be fun. I think we're gonna dig it, but check that out. And I wanted to mention one of my other podcasts where my brother and my brother made a TV show,

it's on CISO, which is a comedy streaming service from NBC, kind of like Netflix, but with jokes. And that's it, CISO.com, and they have an app on the Apple TV and iOS and Roku, and you can watch it through Amazon Prime and what have you. So there's six episodes of it. We worked really hard on it, and the feedback on it's been really great.

So if you get a chance to go check it. And it's hilarious. I can use you to go get it and watch them all right now and watch them over and over. And you can see the sister in episode what you're in two jobs, and three. Oh yeah, I am in three. So we hope you'll check that out.

Yes? That's it. Oh, taxpayers, thanks for letting us use your song medicine as an intro and outro program. But that's gonna do it for us until next week. My name is Justin McElroy. I'm Sydney McElroy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. Alright! Yeah! Maximumfund.org

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