Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: The Tea That Doesn’t Cure Cancer (and Might Make It Worse)

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Often cure-alls cure nothing (and do nothing), but other times they may actually hurt. Dr. Sydnee and Justin talk about the Essiac tea formula, which claims to cure cancer while preventing people from seeking actual helpful medical care. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers https://taxpayers.bandcamp.com/

Saw bones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, talkies about some books. One, two, one, of Miscite Medicine. for the mouth. Wow. Hello everybody and welcome to Salt Bones, Mayor Dutur, Miss Guy to Medicine.

Oh man. I just got lost in the tones there I think. I felt like John Michael Montgomery. Are you pretty late, I want to get my son. I'm thinking, what do you think of it? You haven't introduced yourself yet, so I can't introduce myself until I get you. I'm a coach just to Macaroi.

And I'm Sydney Macaroi. So you have to start. I'm sorry, it's been so long. We're both down here today. We're both down low today. I know. Stay tuned the season. I always feel like it's starting to get cold here,

and I always feel like at this time of year is when I start thinking like, this is a mistake. Certainly it's gonna get warm again for a while. Like I let myself believe like, we'll have some more sunny days, you know, some more. Cause I don't wanna think that I'm just like,

I always feel like I didn't lap it up. You know what I mean? I feel like I didn't, I should have spent more time outside. Yeah, I always have the same thought. I spent time outside, but I feel like I should have. The thought I always have is you didn't sit on the porch enough. You didn't sit on the porch enough.

You didn't sit on the porch enough. That's a thought that I have a lot. You didn't sit on the porch enough, Sydney. It was warm, you could have sat on the porch while you did whatever you were doing, while you were researching this show, you could have said, not this episode because it was already cold,

but I could have sat on the porch more while I was researching other episodes and I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. But here we are. There's no point in looking forward. Things will, or sorry, backward. Beijing, Dr. Freud. Oh, we for you.

They're so poignant, backward. There's no point. Maybe just, there's no point. Should I just be a bit more serious? I don't feel that way. I'm not really cynical. I don't feel that way. I feel like nightless.

You know what, we've had a lot of fun, watch a lot of scary content. You know, there's good things about every time here, I guess. Yeah, we have. Set for February. Tart. In January, those two months are like, whatever.

I feel like things still start to heat back up to September. Cooper's birthdays in February. God bless your for it, but she didn't turn things around. I mean, it's not enough to save a month. Love the kid. But Justin, I had never heard of this one, this topic this week before. One of our listeners told me about it. Thank you. We do. Thank you, Melissa, for sending this in. And as always, if you find out about weird medical stuff and you think it make it, please, please send it my way. If you think it make a good show, because most of our shows these days come from you all, and I really appreciate it. And thanks for your weird medical artifacts that you send

to our PO box. Oh my gosh. I got 24 hundreds of West Virginia 25706 is the address. I got some real wonderful ones this last time. But be thoughtful. Be thoughtful about the space. I don't want, you know, we can't take 30 books. Please don't. No, yes we can, yes we can. Yet what are you doing?

What are you doing? Are you kidding me? I'm antagonizing you. The books are you doing? Are you kidding me? I'm antagonizing you. The books are my favorite. I love everything. I love the books and can I tell you I save if you send me a book and it's got like a little note or a card or something from you too.

I always keep the note or the card in the book so that whenever I pull the book off my shelf and open it to look at something or read, there's your little note and it's like this wonderful little. It's just it's wonderful. Thank you. The amount of book. The joy it brings me, I cannot express that. The number of books you are now condemning me to hauling back from the local post office. Do you know the looks they give me, Sid, with your books?

I love my books. Okay. So what is the, come on. I'm talking, we're talking about the S.E.A.C. formula. Okay. Or S.E.A.C.T. you may have heard it. It's a T. So it's a formula. I'm a little more interested in the S.E.A.X. formula. It's just these muscles. Oh my God. Because these moves S.E.X. No, no, no. Okay. S.E.A.C. as an ESS I.A.C. Okay. That is the name. Okay.

I will tell you why it's... I'll tell you if I'm not getting anything from... Yeah, no, you're not gonna be able to figure this one out until I'm gonna tell you. There is a, we know exactly why it's called this. You might be able to puzzle it out. See if you can Sherlock it out before I tell you. Do not talk to me like that.

I do not appreciate. I'm not the child on Mr. Wizard. Dizzy, you might get to. You might be able to figure it out yourself, your tiny child, right? Hey, no, no, this has no, you don't have to know any science to figure this out. Okay.

We talk a lot on our show about fake cures. Yeah. Right. And I usually say something about how a lot on our show about fake cures. Yeah. Right. And I usually say something about how a lot of them are pretty harmless. A lot of fake cures at the end of the day. I mean, it's like if you think about a lot of homeopathic things. They don't treat anything, they don't cure anything, but most of them don't do anything either. The most of them, we're talking about homeopathic stuff.

Most of it's just water, honestly. It's just a bottle of water. And even stuff that actually has some sort of ingredient in it, most of them aren't going to kill you, right? And some of them do, so please just don't take them willingly. But a lot of the herbal things that we talk about either don't do much in the body or do so little that it doesn't matter. However, another reason that these things are dangerous is something we don't talk about a lot on the show, which is that they offer an alternative to actual medicine. And in some cases are

recommended instead of actual medicine. Now, because it keeps people from getting the care that they need. Yes. That is a factor that I don't think we talk about a lot, which is if you are encouraged to pursue this non-evidence-based, you know, completely untested, unproven substance as a cure for whatever your disease process is over actual evidence-based medicine, then you may unnecessarily suffer or even die from something that was treatable or even curable, right? And we don't focus on that piece of it.

I, I, I, I, maybe I should be a little more careful about saying like worst case scenario, you waste your money. No, the worst case scenario is that you avoid actual medical care and don't get the care you need and deserve. And I think that right now I feel like distrust of medical professionals is still pretty high. I don't, I mean, like it wasn't great before COVID. The faith that people have in us as healthcare providers, I think that because of all of the disinformation and misinformation during COVID, of all the people who

lied and said that we were falsely diagnosing to bill higher and all of those, which were complete lies, by the way, nobody was doing that. I don't think I need to tell you all that, but we weren't doing that. We were struggling to try and keep people alive and not get sick ourselves. That's what we were all doing. And trying to keep up with the best treatment practices would shift it seemed like monthly. Because it was a real time, real time science. We were learning in real time.

But I think that because there is so much mistrust, and a lot of that in this country has to do with the fact that you, you should not trust the healthcare system in the United States of America. It is not built to take care of you. It was never, it's not broken. It was not built to take care of you. You can trust individual people within the system. Yes. There are providers that you can trust absolutely. And you can trust evidence based medicine and science to move you closer to a state of well-being. All of that is true, but the healthcare system was built to make money. And so if you don't trust the system, I don't blame you, I don't either.

But because of all that, because of all that, the alternative medicine industry can look a lot more attractive, right? Because it's a rebellion. And that's on both sides. Like it's natural, it's crunchy. And so there are some people who are drawn to it because of that. Like it's more the way we're intended to live.

And there are some people who are drawn to it out of kind of like the other end of the political spectrum, like, you know, conspiracy theory and we know better and the government's trying to hide things from you kind of stuff. Either way. So I want to tell you the story of SEAC formula because I think this is a good example of something that pulled people away from actual treatment because it offered a cure where there is no cure. It seemed safer, cheaper, more natural, all of those sort of buzzy things that people are attracted to. And for cheaper, more natural, all of those sort of buzzy things that people are attracted to.

And it had a lot of testimonials, which we see a lot in these kind of medicines that led people to believe it might work. This is the cancer cure that is not a cancer cure. Not a cure for anything. But yes, the SEAC formula is specifically touted to be a cure for cancer. I feel like- One of the most cure for cancer. I feel like- One of the most egregious.

I feel like if they figured that out, I would have heard about it. It wouldn't make any headlines. Yeah, well, I'm telling you about it, but it's not, I mean, I, and it's, it has given a lot of people false hope and it's, I mean, as far as I can tell, no more than a T, but Renee Case

is at the center of our story. She was one of 11 children, her parents. You can read, by the way, like in her own words, a lot of this story that I'm telling you comes from her first-person account of her life, her career, the invention of this cure. There are lots of websites devoted to her and then her actual story, her from her book and from her autobiography, from her life, right? So like, it's kind of nice to have a first person account of somebody's life. She had a good child, Nantario.

Her parents were a barber and a seamstress. She grew up wanting to take care of others. It sounded like a very religious upbringing, like providing and caring for others was very much part of her life. And she wanted to do that. So she went into nursing, a great field to go into if you love taking care of other people and you want to give back. And in nursing, she made a discovery. And so to kind of get into her, her story from how she figured this out, she was, this is the mid-1920s, by the way. That's the era we're in right now.

She was working at the Sisters of Providence Hospital in Northern Ontario. And she noticed that on one of her patients, they had some scar tissue on their breast. And she was asking about what is that scar from? And the patient said that about 30 years prior, she had had breast cancer. She had had advanced cancer in that breast.

Okay. Okay. She went to a doctor and the doctor said, you were gonna have to remove that because it's cancer. Okay. She went to a doctor and the doctor said, you were going to have to remove that because it's cancer. Okay. That was the treatment plan to remove the cancer, which is still, you know, surgical treatment of cancer is still a mainstay of, you know, a lot of, not all, but a lot of cancer treatments to this day. However, in this patient's words, before we left, they were at a camp where they were seeing this doctor. Her husband was a prospector, so they were kind of out in the wilderness when this was

all discovered. Before they left the camp to go pursue this surgical treatment, she came across an old Indian medicine man. Now, I believe in this case, they're talking about someone who would have been indigenous to this area of Ontario is where we are. And told this medicine man that she had cancer, and he said, I can cure it. I have this remedy. You don't have to have surgery. Take this instead. So she went with the medicine man out to the wilderness. They collected certain herbs.

He showed her which ones to collect. She helped. They brewed a tea from these herbs. She was told to drink it every day. And she has had no problems with cancer ever since. She was able to avoid surgery, she was able to avoid any treatment, and she lived, she was 80 years old at the time of this telling and drank her herbal tea every day.

So we are already setting up for several different, if you've been listening to something for a while, you can already see the logical things that are going to be brought into this, right? We've got appeal to ancient wisdom. There's going to be the appeal of like the natural thing, right? It's natural and it's ancient. And there's also a layer I think of like other cultures,

having more wisdom, older cultures, older societies have more wisdom than we do about, about Healy, which is kind of like a relationship with, but like, you can already see some of these tenants. Like, there are things that are rooted deep down in us, right? Like, we want to believe that the care for the thing is just growing out of the ground and we just are two, you know, two city bound to see it.

Have you seen the movie, Madison Man? It's in the ants. Yes, city. I have it. Reigns the whole time. It's a wild flow. It's in the ants. It's in the ants. It was in the ants. That's spoiler for medicine, man, though. Oh, I'm sorry. You, if you haven't, that is a wild statement to make, by the way, like it's in the ants. What does that mean? Yeah. I mean, obviously, there's a time when Sean Connery and Lorraine Brockko could headline a picture, think about that. Man, can I tell you the fantasies about that movie anyway? Yeah. So Sean Connery died. Come on. Go ahead.

So this young nurse here's the story she thinks it's intriguing. She remembers it. She remembers the herbs, the patient recounts to her. I remember it too, so they told me they heard the cure cancer. No special merit points for that. But we have to build the story. So like a year later, she's working with this doctor. They're walking around out in the garden. And the doctor apparently points to one of the plants growing in the garden and the doctor apparently points to one of the plants growing in the garden and says, if people would use this weed, there would be very little

cancer in the world. And she looks and it's one of the same herbs that was in this tea that she learned about from this patient. So she starts to think, huh, maybe there's some truth to this. So we're like building, so we have this like natural fault cure. And now we have medical science authenticating it. A doctor said, yes, it does cure cancer. It does work. And we, and also I love the idea that this doctor

is like casually like this cures cancer. We're not telling anybody. People love that. Yeah, they love that I go. So then she finds out that a family member has cancer. We're not towing anybody. People love that. Yeah, they love that. I go. So then she finds out that a family member has cancer. And she's very worried because, you know, I mean, like this is why unfortunately cancer is so ripe for this kind of fake cure. Yeah. Is because this was true in the 1920s and it's true today. We often can't cure things. Sometimes we can. It is not uncommon that we can't.

And so people start to feel hopeless and desperate and will be more vulnerable to these kinds of scams. So she decides, you know, I'm going to get all of the herbs that are necessary to make this tea and bring it to her. Which I think still we're pretty harmless at this point. She this family member has undergone actual cancer treatment. She's just bringing her a tea too. I think that's fine. A tea too.

That is actually the terrible metallic terminator that can shape shift. So she didn't bring her. I don't want her to bring her a T2. If medicine man gave me good dreams, terminator two gave me so many bad dreams as a kid. So anyway, she makes her this T and she claims that after that, her aunt, those are family members,

lived for 21 years after this. Even though doctors told her the cancer was incurable, she had very little time left. She lived for another 21 years. Right. And so because of this, other, like there are doctors who were involved in this patient's care. So this was a patient who was actually receiving care from doctors, told there was nothing

left to do. She got this tea, supposedly beat the odds. And so the doctors start to become interested in this and start asking her, nurse case, what are you doing? What's this tea? What's the deal? Tell me about the tea. What's the name are you doing? What's this tea? What's the deal? Tell me about the tea. Tell me about the tea.

Tell me about the tea. Tell me about the tea. Tell me about the tea. And they come to her and they're like, we've got this other guy who's got cancer. And I said, spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea.

I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea.

I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. I said spill the tea. Give me the tea. Got it. We could do that all day. So they're like, look, we've got this guy who like, we don't expect to live more than like a week or so. Why don't you come try your tea. If your tea's so good, come give him the tea. So she comes in and she gives this guy who's in a late stage cancer who has, like I said, about a week or so to live. The tea, he was bleeding actively at the time. The bleeding stopped within the first day and he lived another six months.

I think that that's great. And six months is definitely more than zero months. But I do think that if you're saying I have a tea that cures cancer, it's a little weird. So I want to make it six months. So then you're like, ta-da. Personally, I think that's not a not a great homework of ethics. So, according to Nurse Case, what happened next is that because the doctors saw this with

their own eyes, a petition was drawn up and sent to the Department of National Health and Welfare in Ottawa to allow her to do independent research on this tape. Does this end with Canada having the cure? to allow her to do independent research on this tape. And then there's doctors send. Oh, sorry. This is in with Canada having the cure to cancer. They just won't tell us about it. Is that where we're going with this? I don't think, I think some of our Canadian listeners

can weigh in on that. I'm pretty sure. I'm just wondering a trick where they can cure cancer. But they won't tell the US about, no. Canadians are way too nice to keep that secret. You all would tell us. You would tell us. You would tell us. They gave us B.

They're definitely gonna give us the cure of cancer. You all shared insulin. You shared insulin with everybody. You would tell us. You would tell us. So anyway, they send this petition. And she, you know, after this feels like, this is gonna be great.

I'm gonna save the world with my new T, except that then she gets after they send this petition, according to her, to doctors from the Department of Health and Welfare show up at her door to her raster for practicing medicine without a license. Well, I never. How dare they. And this would, you know, this would kind of be like the next phase of this. She's got this tea, she learned about it

and these, you know, sort of, who knows if they're real stories. She gives it to people, saves their lives, it's miraculous and the state suppresses it. So it's a perfect setup. So does it work? What's in it and what did she do next? I'll tell you after we get to the billing department. Ah, let's go.

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That's COOP-TO-B-E-R. Thank you so much for your support and have a great co-optober. It's a low point, Sydney. We find ourselves in prison hard times for our hero, but I feel like she's going to rise above all this. I'm keeping the faith. So she has been told to stop, but she does not. She does not. So even though the government is like, you can't go around saying you have the cure for cancer because you don't like you don't have any, and there's no research on this, right? Like we have like so far three maybe anecdotes.

And again, some of this, just I can't explain to you some of these testimonials and I couldn't. You could go through any patent medicine and tell me a story and I wouldn't be able to explain to you other than suggesting that people are lying. And I don't want to suggest that people are lying. I don't know. I don't know. Weird stuff happens. The body does all kinds of weird stuff.

And part of it is that with whenever we're talking about cancer, there's only so much you can predict. We give you time frames and a prognosis and like ranges of weeks or months or whatever. And sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more. There's always that unpredictability. In medicine, if I could tell everybody exactly how much time they had left,

well that would be horrifying, I'm glad I can. That would be, of all the like superpowers I could get, that would be the worst one. Imagine walking past the door. They're like, Dr. McGrady would check in here. And you're like, eh, there's no point. I don't want to. I'm pretty pissing up.

And they're like, see you tomorrow, Dr. McGrady. Actually, actually, hey listen. I would hate that. I'm glad I can't, but. It's a funny idea, but I don't think it's a practical. No, and we can't. And we do the best we can always understanding that like the human body is infinitely more complex

than even with all of our tools and tricks and diagnostic things we still understand. So she basically finds like a small subset of doctors who are willing to like, we will work with you. And again, these are only patients who are under the care of doctors already. Okay. And so this is in conjunction, which I still don't have a giant problem with. Like, I always think about a good corollary to this is, while I was breastfeeding, you

used to make me lactation cookies all the time. Yes. I don't really think those lactation cookies help me lactate. I don't really, there's not, like the ingredients that are in there, I don't, there's not a ton of evidence that this was making a giant difference in my milk production, but they were delicious.

There was no harm, and I was happier because you made me the cookies. So I don't know, like there's no harm in that, right? So if you're a patient who's undergoing cancer treatment and you decide to drink her T2, that sounds okay. Now I will call that into question before the set-up. Do not drink the T2, it is liquid metal. It may seem very thirst-quenching, it will be a disaster.

So while she's doing this, one of the doctors who she's working with says like, you know, you could get some more credibility if you actually did like studies, like you need to do like tests on that. You need to do science on this. So from 1928 through 1930, she actually does some experiments. Like there's some mice in a lab. There she's working in a lab in Toronto, Christie Street Hospital Laboratories.

And she, these mice are injected with a kind of sarcoma, a kind of cancer. And basically, she kept these mice are injected with a kind of sarcoma, a kind of cancer. And basically, she kept the mice alive longer with her SEAC tea than anybody had ever been able to do. Like, she kept them alive 52 days. Oh, no, 52 days. Yeah, no, well, I mean, they died of cancer. But like, she did keep them alive longer, well, I mean, they died of cancer, but like she did keep them alive longer supposedly than other people had.

She, and she says like, you know, I had been doing my own treatments at home, or my own experiments at home. Like, these are not the first. Like, I of course did this in my basement, but like, now I've done it in front of doctors and they saw that these mice lived longer. And then another doctor was like,

you know, I think instead of a T, it would be better if you like injected it into people. Maybe that's why we're not getting, maybe that's why they're not curing the cancer in these mice. Maybe we need to make it into an injection. So they started testing injecting mice with T. But this feels, sorry, I know that these are all Canadians, but this feels like a very British solution.

I don't know. Sorry, that was not a slam on anybody who's British who listens to our show. Tea's great. Coffee's better, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, but tea is great, I appreciate T. But anyway, so they're like, this is even better. When we inject it, they're curing their cancer. They believe that it was carrying off all of the disease cancer cells. All the cancer cells were completely removed. So they start giving these injections like you would get a flu shot or something. Right. Basically, of an herbal preparation, it's basically T. And so then they start trying that in humans. So these same doctors, again, that they're working with,

they start applying this injection to humans who are otherwise receiving cancer treatment and incurable. Okay. And it's the same kind of thing, like there's somebody who has cancer of the throat and tongue. They give him an injection of the S.I.C.A.C. and initially he had a terrible reaction to it and they thought that they had killed him. Oh, wow. Yes, but then after that he went home and lived another four years. She's okay, well.

So again, you continue to get these kinds of anecdotes. So she is working, she's still working as a nurse. There are select doctors who will let her come in and give tea to people. Tea shots, not tea shots, not like testosterone shots, like tea as in T.E.A. shots of tea. I'm with you. Got it. Okay. And then in her apartment, she's having people come visit her for tea. Oh, God. So she's gonna get, you know, she's gonna get in trouble for this again. I'm not supposed to do this.

No, because she's having, she's had up to 30 people a day or coming to visit her in her apartment to get treatment for their cancer, which is gonna be a problem. She even makes an appointment at one point because she really wants to legitimize this. So she goes to Dr. Frederick Banting, which do you remember who Banting is?

No. I've alluded to him earlier. Who's Banting? His discover of insulin. Oh. Remember, that was the Canadians gave a insulin. And. Of the Banting Institute.

Exactly. Exactly. So she goes to Banting and she claims that he agrees with her. Like, basically, I'm not saying this cures cancer. He looks over all of her stuff and he's like, yeah, I mean, it's the best thing we got. He starts winking. I'm not saying it. It's a cure for cancer. Don't tell anybody. Not the Americans, especially. But he, and like supposedly, he's like, this works better than anything else we've got for cancer so far. I don't know, this feels a little bit to me,

like you know how we've told the story of how Einstein investigated the sex box. Yeah, it's the same, it's the same kind of like Banting investigated this tea. And was like, you really got something here, but then like encourages her like go. Now this is her quote, that's her, we've telling of this way. Oh, that's her retouch, that's what I want you to know. And you asked Banting, like encourages are like, this is her quote. That's her retelling of this.

Oh, that's her retouch. That's what I want you to know. And you're not spanting, he'd be like, uh, the tea, let me tell you about that day, that lady would not leave. I eventually just looked at her, I was like, I don't know, maybe. And then she finally agreed to leave.

That was, that was all the encouragement I gave her. I see, I think that I love these first hand accounts though, because this is her, this, this is her, I mean, she's a true believer. Like there's no doubt that this woman felt she had the care for cancer. I don't think she was lying about that. I don't know about how true every aspect of these stories are. But I do think she believed that this was a care for cancer.

So anyway, he did recommend like, you need need to actually apply to do research on this. Like formally research this in big studies to prove that you have it. If you've really got a cure for cancer, you got to do that. Because that's kind of what he did with insulin, like researched it. He didn't just say, like, I got this wild idea and I'm going to inject this stuff into humans and see what happens No, they did proper research to arrive at insulin and which is also by the way why insulin is you know real and works and saves lives And you know, it's a vital medicine. Yeah

So she's saying I wanted to do the same thing But here's why she decided she didn't But here's why she decided she didn't. She decides that when Banting registered, and by the way, when you do this, you have to share your formula, right? If you're gonna register to actually get it properly tested and authenticated, you have to share your secret with them.

You don't get to keep it a secret. She said that if she was going to do that, she was worried that basically they would take the formula and suppress it and it would disappear forever. Because when Banting did that, and I think she's maybe alluding a little to sexism and the fact that like he was a doctor and she was a nurse that he was taking very seriously and celebrated and honored and that if she did the same thing, she would not be. Which I mean, there's some truth in there, but like- So she's a woman.

But also you just don't want to test it because if you test it for real, you might find out that it doesn't work. So she decides at that point, I'm not gonna go that route. I'm not gonna do what he did. I'm not gonna actually submit my formula and try to get it like, you know, tested for real and do the clinical trials and everything that Banty did with insulin. Because I know it's a conspiracy. I know that they will suppress it.

I know that even if it works, nobody will ever find out about it, which is a very convenient little logical trick there. And so I'll just continue doing it on, nobody will ever find out about it, which is a very convenient little logical trick there. And so I'll just continue doing all my own. So she did. So she continued to see patients on her own. And that's not by the way, can I say, can I make a point? What? Those are not the actions of a true believer.

No, that's true. I do not think that if you really believed it, deep down in your heart, that you would not take every opportunity to blow it up as big as it could possibly be. Like to get it out to as many people as possible. If you're a real true believer, I don't think you invent something like that. And, and, and I mean, I guess it's true because what she has after this is a really good story for people who want to believe her because what Because what, for the rest of her life, basically she is continuing to secretly treat people

and occasionally getting reprimanded for it. Occasionally getting letters like cease and desist type letters to say like you can't do this. You're practicing medicine without a license. You're promising people treatment and cure of cancer. And that's not what this is. And you've never gone through the proper channels to get any of this tested, which may have been offered to her.

I mean, I don't know how much of the band-teens story you believe, but like, you know, she doesn't go and do that work to prove that this is anything. And she would also need to involve, like, you can't prescribe medicine if you're not legally authorized to prescribe medicine, which is what she's doing. So she basically kind of takes this like martyr kind of position at this point. I have the secret cure for cancer. If you come to me, of course, I will share it with you, but I cannot tell it to anyone else.

She says that she treated people for like 25 more years with her formula and saved all these lives and help people live out of pain. And then after that, after she eventually died, would pass that knowledge on to just a select group of people around her. Disciples, if you will. Yes. If you're curious, what is in this tea, which by the way, I still haven't told you what's in this tea.

Yeah. So, it's, there are different formulas of it now. Like if you look up SCAC tea, you'll find slightly different variations of it. But the four main herbs are bird-ock root, slippery elm, inner bark, sheep's oral, and Indian rhubarb root. And then you'll find different formulations that might have other things in it. One thing to make note of, if you read some of the stories behind the different companies that sell this, some of the herbs they include that they say are from this original preparation that was given

to a woman by someone indigenous to the area, some of the herbs that they claim don't actually grow in some of these places. So that's already, it already calls the whole thing into question because like some of these plants aren't native to the appropriate areas that they're talking about. And then of course, when you do research into the various components of this, they've never found any evidence

that any of this helps with cancer in any way. There actually have been studies done to look at specific herbs within this formula to see. And in most cases, there is no efficacy whatsoever. It does not slow any tumor growth. And they actually had a couple studies that showed it increased the rate of cancer growth. Whoa.

Yeah. So since, and this is, by the way, since 1977 is when the formula was, was sold and trademark rights were given to another corporation, and this is why it's widespread. So since 1977, it's been sold, touted as a cancer cure. Initially, there were a lot of these companies that would encourage patients to seek this out instead of cancer treatment, but obviously you get in trouble for that. It's like a lot of alternative medicine now. It is supposed to be complimentary too.

Do not seek this in, instead, seek this in addition. I found like FTC complaints that have been issued against all these companies for false advertising, for promising cancer cures for saying that it has been proven to cure cancer when there is absolutely no scientific evidence that it does anything. And there was one study that showed it might increase the rate of cancer growth, which I think you'd have to do again to say, is that true or not, but either way, it doesn't help. Yeah. We know it doesn't help. It's usually marketed as like a supplement, like a dietary supplement.

So, you know, we know the problem with that. You don't have to, the same guidelines don't apply as some sort of medicine. Yeah, I'm looking at medicine. It's not calling it a medicine. Very much for sale. No, you can buy it. The first thing when I started looking up SEACT, what I first got were a bunch of ads for where I could buy SEACT. And there are, again, I think the thing is that even though they're going to be really clear on all the advertising and say it doesn't treat or cure anything, right? They're going to put that on everything because they have to. And they're going to tell you, still go to your doctor, but this is in addition.

But we know that the problem is there are a lot of people who would love to believe that they can take care of themselves without doctors, they would rather, they'd rather avoid us. And I mean, I get it, I understand. And maybe the only reason that they have to say, this doesn't treat or cure something, that you should also see your doctor is because the government doesn't want you to know. Yes.

But again, there is no evidence that any of the components of these do anything for cancer growth. Any of the studies that were ever done were small were done in labs were done in mice, maybe at best none of them ever showed any effect. were done in mice, maybe at best, none of them ever showed any effect. These testimonials that we have, I don't have an explanation for other than you can say anything. You can say anything. And cancer treatment is an evolving science. And so there are lots of unpredictable things. I have seen patients live much longer than the prognosis that they were given by the

experts. And I don't think it had anything to do with a T. I think it's just because there's still a lot that we're working to understand. SCAC also just to round it out, it can cause headaches, nausea, diarrhea, or constipation, vomiting, low blood sugar, liver damage, and kidney damage, allergic rashes, and rarely serious allergic reactions. So it doesn't do anything. It might hurt you. It might increase the rate of cancer growth, although I don't know for sure, but either way, it doesn't do anything for cancer.

It sounds like we're gonna have to give this one a C plus on the old sub and scale. No. If anybody tells you to use SEAC T, please don't. It's not, I mean, other than just like, this is a T I like, but please do not use it to treat or cure anything. But even don't do that because apparently it might make cancer worse. Have you figured out what the, what the, where SEAC comes from?

No, but I was really more listening to you. I wasn't really trying to look at her name. How do you spell her last name? Oh, it's a, oh, C-A-I-S-S-E. Oh, is it just like rearranged her letters? It's just backwards. It's just backwards. Oh my God.

It's just your last name. Yeah, the formulas are last just backwards. Oh my God. It's just your last name. Yeah, the formulas are last name backwards. Oh my God, that's great. That's where that comes from. But yeah, so, I mean, and it's tough, because like, it sounds like she was a very sweet lady who was probably an excellent nurse. I would, I would imagine.

But it's very unfortunate because whether she was a true believer or not, this tea was definitely for a while touted as an alternative. Do this instead of what your doctors say, which is incredibly dangerous. And again, false hope, missing out on actual treatment and possibly doing harm. So that's the story of SEAC tea. Thank you again for sending it in Melissa. And if anybody else has suggestions, I always love them. Yeah. Thanks so much for listening to our podcast. We call it

Soul Bones. And you should do because that's what it is called. Thanks to taxpayers. She's their song Medicines is the intro and outro of our program. Thanks to you, actually, my friends, the most for listening. We really appreciate you. We hope you've enjoyed yourself. We hope you join us again next week for Sawpones because it'll be good now. We hope you join us again next week for Sawpones. Until then, my name is Justin McRoy.

I'm Sydney McRoy. And as always, don't drill a hole in your head. Maximum Fun, a work-road network of artist-owned shows supported directly by you. Bye! Man! Maximum fun. A work-road network of artist-owned shows supported directly by you.