Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Tobacco

Episode Date: October 4, 2013

Welcome to Sawbones, where Dr. Sydnee McElroy and her husband Justin McElroy take you on a whimsical tour of the dumb ways in which we've tried to fix people. This week: We take a big drag off of wellness. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers (http://thetaxpayers.net)

Saw bones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We were shot through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

The medicines, the medicines, the escalant macaque for the mouth! Oh, everybody, and welcome to Sobhone's a marital tour of misguided medicine. I am your co-host Justin McAroy. And I'm Sydney McAroy. Sydney. You look extra fantastic today. What is going on with you? Well, thank you, Justin. I must say, you're looking pretty sexy today

yourself. So kind of you to say, dear. I can only think there's one reason for that. Is it my cigarette? That's right. It's your cigarette. Cindy I only spoke cable unfiltered cigarettes because they are the ones that make you a man. Or a woman. You know Sidney, the best thing that I've found about cigarettes is the health benefits on which my doctor said I'm stressed out having trouble breathing in my T zone. I'm worried that I am not getting enough nicotine in that area. And you're a doctor, I bet you can guess what he told me.

I'm Betty told you to smoke a smooth, smooth cigarette. Yes, a cigarette brand cigarette. That's what he recommended to me. SIGURATE brand cigarettes, when you care enough to buy the most generic. You know, the great thing about cigarette brand cigarettes when you care enough to buy the most generic. You know, the great thing about cigarette brand cigarettes is getting them in the hands of kids. You know, so many kids.

I'm sorry, wait, what? Yeah, so many kids these days look like little weeners. Not literally, but you know, they act like little weeners. Well, wait, I mean, you don't mean really little kids, right? No, I think if you can get, here's what I'm saying. If his hands can clasp, he's ready to make ash. That's part of the thing. No, okay, okay, I can't, I'm sorry.

What? I'm sorry. I can't do this anymore. What, we barely have been going two minutes. I know, no, I don't mean the show. I mean, I can't do the sponsorship. Well, why, Sydney, we've worked so hard to build our program to a point where we have sponsors on it, and now you're gonna blow it up for us.

Do you really think that cigarette brand cigarettes was the best sponsor for our first sponsored show? Okay, maybe not. We're a medical show. I'm a doctor. I can't recommend that kids smoke cigarettes. I can't recommend anybody smoke cigarettes. I can wreck. I can think of a few people who medically should smoke cigarettes. No, I can't think of anybody who should medically smoke cigarettes. I can name one off the top. I can name a bunch off the top of my head. Who? Robots that use cigarettes for fuel. Okay, fine. This is one.

But, okay. But robots are already so cool, right? Why do they need cigarettes? I mean, do you think about that? I mean, do you think about that? Wrap. Yeah, you're right. Sydney, since we're not going to advertise cigarettes and therefore I have to lie about

them, why don't you tell me the truth about tobacco? Well, the truth about tobacco is that... It's cool. No, we are not endorsing cigarette smoking. Why do I have the feeling I'm going to be saying that a lot in this show? I can't imagine. Okay, tobacco. Well, it's a cigarette hasn't been invented yet.

In the old, ye olden times. In ye olden times. No, and it's true. It's fair to say that people have thought that tobacco had medicinal properties for hundreds of years. They were wrong, but they thought it did. It's a lot of our topics, Justin,

goes back to Europe from the origins of this or perhaps we go over to somewhere in the Asian continent, but tobacco is actually kind of a local. Oh, a local. Oh, local. My didn't know. Home of tobacco. No, no, not Huntington.

Home of tobacco usage, maybe. Definitely. Definitely. A list of a capital of the world. Well, and in this area, in general, smokeless and smoke full. Smokeful tobacco from the makers of cigarette brand cigarettes. Very popular. No, but the most species of the tobacco plant,

Niko Tiana are native to the Americas. Huh. There are some that are native to Australia, but most are from the Americas. So what did we start hearing about tobacco? So people were probably using tobacco products for hundreds of years before we really have record of them, but our understanding of the use of tobacco comes from probably when Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Do you remember when that was, Justin? It's going to be 1492. Very good. Thank you.

So when Columbus arrived, he found that the Native Americans were already growing tobacco and using it for, you know, pleasurable purposes for smoking, as well as for medicinal purposes. Actually, the word tobacco is kind of a misnomer. That wasn't the word for the plant itself. Oh, yeah? No, it was actually the word for the pipe that he observed of some different Native American tribes people using to smoke the tobacco. It was called tobacco or tobacco.

Ah, right. And so he thought that was what they were calling the plant itself. So what's the plant called? The plant has lots and lots of different names. I think it would probably depend on where you were in North America at the time as to what you called it, but a petum or a betum or Koji, Kojiabo, Kojioba, all kinds of names. A bunch of different names that don't really sound to anything like tobacco.

Obviously, we didn't just randomly pick up a bunch of leaves and roll it up and take the road to flavor country. We had to get there. So how did it start? Well, we have to assume that before we have records that the Native Americans were using tobacco that they did, they were familiar with lots of different plants for various medicinal uses as well as for food and all kinds of different things. And so they probably had already figured this out through generations of just experience. And Columbus and the people that came

along afterwards just simply observed it. He did note that people would burn torches with tobacco leaves to disinfect areas was the thought, and that if you burned a torch of tobacco leaves in an area it could ward off disease or fatigue interestingly enough. Not true. No. Okay.

That never stopped anybody that. I was like, aha, tobacco, not what I was about to say. Aha. Tobacco. See? I told you so. It doesn't use this. They did see that if you would use enough of it as opposed to we traditionally think of

tobacco and nicotine containing products as making this jittery and kind of hyping us up. But if you use enough of it, it would actually cause lots of consciousness. And it's actually hypothesized that they use this as an anesthetic during one of our favorite medical procedures on this show, trepination. Ah, that's drilling the hole in your head. Exactly, good job, Justin.

Thanks, Sid. I pay attention. Are you supposed to do that now? No. Very good. Not just a hat rack, folks. You all brain up there. You could also use tobacco in those days,

they would mix it with lime or chalk, and kind of use it as a toothpaste. So it was used to whiteen your teeth. And this is actually still done in India to this day. It's called Meshiri. And there are tobacco-based toothpaste still sold there. All right. Ah, and there are tobacco-based toothpaste still sold there. All right, Sid, what else?

Tobacco sounds like a wonder jug so far. Well, it actually became that. By 1500, everybody was trying to find things to use tobacco for. The Portuguese explorer, Pedro Alvarez Cabral, started reporting on all the different ways you could use tobacco. And a lot of these started out as topical, meaning that you applied them to your skin. So, um, mean, I'm about the government shutdown. Exactly.

Topical cures. That's it, Justin. That's exactly what I meant. No, you put them on your skin. So for like, ulcerated abscesses, fistulas, sores, anything. If you're listening to this year's formal, the government shutdown's going on right now. Maybe you're in a Mad Max style future where the government has been shut down for years and you won't understand why that's a topical joke.

It's topical because it's happening right just so you know. Right, and right now it's more of just this funny joke. Right now it's a joke, but to you, it was the donning of the apocalypse. Anything but a joke. How now it's a joke, but to you, it was the donning of the apocalypse. Anything but a joke. It was just that. How is it going to stay the podcast? For us, it's just that time period where we couldn't go to the Smithsonian. Hey, listen, I don't want to get political here. Um, so this is when it began to, uh, tobacco was known as the Holy herb. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Cause you could use it for the most desperate cases. I think it's interesting because, uh, you could use it for the most desperate cases. I think it's interesting because you could use it for the most desperate cases. It almost certainly wouldn't have worked, but I guess you still could use it. Sure, why not? Give it a shot. In some semblance of evidence-based medicine, a Spanish priest in 1529 began reporting

on different physicians' experiences with tobacco and how they used it and what their findings were. In particular, he found three or four physicians, excuse me, four. So that's not a big N. And an example size? Not a big N is what we would say in research terms, but they gave him some tips. So you could inhale the odor of fresh tobacco leaves to cure your headaches. Possible? Nope. Okay. You could take either green fresh leaves or powdered leaves and rub them inside your mouth to prevent colds. Okay. Or you could take

some like crushed tobacco plant, warm it up, mix it with salt, and then let's say you have a big neck mass, you need to remove, you could put that on the wound that's left after you remove the neck mass. Specifically for neck masses is what I found. I'm guessing all that's made up. Yeah, well, I mean, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't advise it. I'm seeing one of my favorite things here, Sydney, on your list of uses for tobacco. Why don't you hit me with that list? See if you can, you folks have noticed the pattern yet on our program.

So at that point, tobacco began to be used for many different things. It was an aid to digestion. It was used as an narcotic, as an anti-diarrheal. Used for fevers. Could suppress your appetite. Used for colic, nephritis, hysteria, hernias, dysentery, toothaches.

Falling fingernails, worms, bad breath, lock jaw, even cancer. Oh, Sid, first off, cancer. Cool. Bad job, guys. Second, like, bad job. Bad job. Mm, secondly, Sid, that sounds a little bit to me,

kind of like a cure-all. And what do we know about cure-alls? The cure. Nothing. Every time America wake up, wake up. And I guess you could kind of look at it. There are a lot of bad ideas that we saw in previous episodes. We've talked about spreading across the Atlantic

in our direction. Well, this was a bad idea that we sent right back over that ocean in the other direction. Take that earth. So probably the earliest documented use of tobacco regularly in Europe was in about 1554. And they started the first application was for something called Yaws, which for these purposes, let's just say, is a disease similar to syphilis in some respect. Okay.

Is it still around? Yes. I believe not here. Not something I've ever come into contact with. Fair. But still exists. Yes. But what's interesting is even then, as it began to spread to parts of the old world, where

there was a little bit, I mean, what we would think of, I guess, as research at the time, not what we would call research today, but where people are actually trying to think about things. Consent. Just thinking. That was the baseline in the 1500s. That's not what we're about here in America. We're about doing, forget thinking over in the old world, concerns were being voiced about safety, even then, even as early as, you know, the late 1500s

as tobacco used to begin to become more, you know, widespread. People noticed that if you used too much, it could cause you to be dizzy and it could cause you to pass out. And botanists began to, you know, really study the plant and found that it contained lots and lots of different toxins. But so did a lot of the medicinal plants we used at the time. So it seemed pretty much par for the course. So nobody was particularly bothered by that.

Good. Good. I'm glad to back a good a foothold. Glad the witch hunt hadn't started yet. I think it's interesting. Back then you could still smoke at the laundromat or at a fancy restaurant or at the internet cafe. Right, those things didn't exist.

Now actual witch hunts did. No, to be fair. That's true. The main use, I think this is interesting for tobacco became something that was called Noley-May-Tangre, Tangre. Tangre? NotTangray. Tangray? Tangray. Not Tangray.

OK. But this was a condition that probably was actually a lot of different illnesses that we all called the same thing, because it caused a similar skin condition. So it's anything that would cause a slow spreading, all-sortive lesion on the skin. So like lupus, syphilis,

erodent carcinoma, or a basal cell carcinoma of the skin, probably all would have looked like this, and tobacco pastes were made to put on these lesions. That was very popular at the time. This is actually how we got the the name nicotine was through its use for this condition. For no limit, right? In 1560 the French ambassador to the Lisbon, Jean-Nicot was given a plant by the keeper of a prison that he was visiting. It was a plant that he was told was originally from

Florida and he took it back home and he planted it in his garden. Well, I have to assume as the French ambassador, he probably didn't plan it himself. Probably had a servant. Yeah, probably paid somebody to plant it. Pierre. Pierre. Pierre one and two. Plant this, everyone. All of his servants are named Pierre. Yeah, 17. Bring me my lotion. I love the return of your French accent. Yeah, it's been too long so One of his pages had a skin lesion and this plan I should I should note grew very well in his garden at home Oh come Pierre 13. Let me look at that. Oh

I Must do something hold on so he went and got some of this. Where's that Florida plant? Not the oranges. The plant from Florida. Not the fruit. The plant from Florida. Yeah, it's excellent.

Where is this accent going? So we put that all over that skin lesion on his page's face. And reportedly it got better. Yeah, let me just, uh, fantastic period. It smells great too. You're going to be a relative to the lady's pair, 1713. It was noted at that point that because it helped, he thought it would help for a lot of different things.

So he just sent it to all kinds of different friends with, I'm presuming various skin lesions. P.F. 13, give this to your wife, Pirata. Let her try it on her lesions. It was for, he sent it to people for leg ulcers, for facial tumors, for scrofilo, which again, let's just compare it to kind of a to Parkinson's type of thing.

Sorry, did you say scrofilo? Yeah, kind of, just think about it like a... That is the grossest disease there's ever. There's like big lymph nodes and it's related to TB. Just, anyway. Scrophial up. It was also, there was one guy who almost cut off his thumb accidentally and they just kind of packed it back on

and wrapped it in tobacco leaves and reportedly it healed, so. No, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure it healed. I don't know if the backhoe played a part. No, and these were all like topical uses. You would again just kind of mash the tobacco leaves with oil and then kind of apply it like a poultice or a paste. And because Jean-Nicot sent this to so many people and that was really what popularized it and that part of Europe it became known as Nicotian which became nicotine.

Which is of course French for Nico's Sav. Do you want me to give you that one? Yeah, just pretend it's right. Okay, I'll give you that one. I appreciate it. So did people catch on yet? Did it was a little sketchy? Yeah, physicians were actually already starting to grow wary of it. They were cautioning against using it too much, although they were still advocating some

small uses. One physician actually Vaughn in 1612 wrote that, I thought this was great, tobacco well dried and taken in a clean pipe, fasting in a moist morning during the spring or autumn cure the meagrum the toothache obstructions proceeding of cold and help with the fits of the mother sorry the fits of the mother I'm assuming hysteria okay sure why not but even Vaughn said try not to abuse it. Take it easy. Just on, you know, those spring or autumn mornings, moist mornings. Get the barometer out. Check the humidity. If it's under 60, no smoking. But if you're using the word moist, just

go away. What if I need to do it to learn how to blow smoke rings or pirate ships. Does it blow pirate ships? Yeah, like Gandalf on his you can't do that. Not yet. It's been to it's been to dry. I haven't had a voice. Worried. It is an autumn morning, no most.

Wait until it's it. Wait until it's an autumn morning. It's an autumn morning. Is it fall? September 20th. Holy crap. Yeah, I know. I know. Time flies.

Interestingly, at the same time that there were still physicians in different parts of Europe advocating its use and certainly the new world. In Russia and China, they started banning it. Smoking was punishable by death in China, decapitation. And Russia, you could be banished to Siberia. You know, some people might say smoking's still punishable by death.

Think about it. It's true. It's poignant, not funny. Yeah, think about it. Yeah, let's not think about it. Don't think about it. Fair enough. OK not think about it. Don't think about it. Fair enough, okay, you're right. But the thing was.

I saw things down a little bit. The thing was, you'll enjoy this more. Yes, while it was being banned and people were becoming concerned about it, it is addictive. So everybody was smoking it. Right, we love it. We can't stop, we'll stop.

You don't tell me what to do. It's, look, feel this humidity. I'm ready. I'm gonna smoke this. And that's the great part is that, and I have to imagine, and this is purely my hypothesis, that because everybody was addicted to it and wanted to smoke it so badly,

the people found lots of reasons why maybe we still should. For instance, during the London playout break in 1665, children were instructed to smoke in their school rooms. God. That would be the, if I could see that once, I could die a happy man. I just want to see a whole class here when kids smoking. Someone made me that poster. Do you think they had like a chart, like like a like they would show in front of the class

Like here is a diagram of smoking here is how you do know the song and do you think they had a song or a rhyme or something? Mommy says to like my cigarette. I'll grow up big and strong. Yes, you bet. That's good. That was great That was really good. I bet that's exactly what they sang during the plague outbreak. Possibly, maybe. They didn't sing anything except plague songs. Do you know any old plague songs in the old traditional plague songs? Are we going to discuss Ring Around the Rosie and whether or not? Oh, I didn't know that.

Why does that think? I think so. I don't even remember. I think that's what it's for. Yeah, it makes for the plague. I believe it's for the plague. Check out our Ring Around the Rosie episode coming in the coming months. We think that's what it's for. Yeah, it's for the plague. Yeah. I believe it's for the plague. Check out our ring around the Rosie episode coming in the coming months.

We'll deal with that at some point. In the 1700s, that's when they began to advise blowing smoke in your ear for an earring. Have you heard that? I've heard that. Yeah, that's still something people advocate. Is there a way to ear-candling? You think it's something that's going to be easy to do? It's probably a similar kind of idea.

Ooh, that's a whole other thing we got to do No, people still do that people suggest a lot of things for us we guys We appreciate all the suggestions and keep them coming we're trying to avoid things that people still believe in because nobody wants to listen to a podcast where someone calls them a dookie head for a half hour. Right, we like to make friends. We like to make friends, not any of me. No matter what dumb. And influence people. No matter what dumb thing you believe in, as long as you are from caveman times, you can enjoy our program.

And maybe even if you are from caveman times, we don't discriminate. So that stuff is fake though. You just have to wait. Hopefully we're all still recording the show in 50 years. And then you can learn what a demo you've been. Long after the government has been shut down. You know, Skabies was originally treated with tobacco. Actually, what I read was an infusion of tobacco and water.

And I read infusion, so I assume they mean in the vein. Ugh. Out to root. I read infusion, so I assume they mean in the vein. Ugh. Outro. Because of safety concerns, though, in the 1700s and into the early 1800s, it was converted into like a SAV, so like a nicotine SAV that you could just kind of rub all over you. Nice.

It's quicker than smoking too. You can do that at work. Rub yourself into nicotine SAV. You just cover yourself into nicotine salad. No one will think that's weird. Just keep that in your desk drawer. As late as 1882, they were still recommending it for outbreaks, a smallpox outbreak.

All the residents of a small town were issued to backo. Is that cool down? Yeah. Yeah. No. No. Stop it. No. I don't care what grease told you. It's not cool.

They also, as they began to, you know, through the years as we began to realize that maybe tobacco smoke inhaled wasn't a good idea, we'd still advocated its use per rectum. Ah, good. Did you know that that was something we used to do? Not until this exact moment. The tobacco smoke animal was very popular for a variety of illnesses. This was also the first usage of tobacco to be banned in the workplace. That, um, thanks. So it was used for worms, ew. Gross. Stric nine poisoning. Sure.

It seems like you might want to act a little faster than that. It seems like a weird way to spend your last few movements. Quick, quick. Bend over, pull down your pants. Let me light this. Wait, okay, and then tell my wife I love her. But also the other thing. Constipation. again, seems dangerous,

strangulated hernias, hydrophobia, and tetanus. Actually, in the 18th century, tobacco smoke animal was the principal medical method used to resuscitate victims of drowning. That is the dumbest thing. We have talked about a lot of dumb medical. That might be the dumbest thing. We have talked about a lot of dumb medical. That might be the dumbest thing we've ever talked about. Quick, he stopped breathing.

He's slow-smoke up his butt. Maybe that's what we should say when someone's lying to us. Hey, do I look like I'm drowning? You don't need to blow smoke up. I like that, I like that. Look like I'm drowning over here. It'll be a joke only you and I will get. And our listeners and our dear friends.

It was noted in 1913, the Lancet, which is a medical journal that's still around. Many of you will probably know that. There was a chemical and tobacco smoke that could kill the collar of a cell, basilis, but at the same time they also noted that smoking would hurt your immune system, so you're probably still better off not smoking. And this is when we started to notice that like, I don't know, maybe in a lab, you could kill cholera with tobacco, but don't smoke. It's a bad idea. And that was, you know, that went along with the time, because in the early 1900s, more

and more, we were doing studies that started to show a link between lung cancer and tobacco. A proposed link, a possible link, a theoretical link. Well, no, I mean, it's a real link. We just didn't know where you'll link. No, and it really put a damper on in 1926. They started doing studies into injecting nicotine subcutaneously into patients with Parkinson's. They found that it seemed to make things better like for an hour or so and then things went back to the way they were. That's very strange. They also tried to advocate at the time that perhaps you were less likely to develop Parkinson's if you did smoke.

Now see, I actually heard that. Or no, no, you know, I'm thinking of Alzheimer's. Now they didn't, they could never support that. They actually, there were studies that showed smoking was linked to more incidents of Alzheimer's. But again, a lot of this, there were other factors they weren't controlling well for. So it's got to be how to control something like that though, right? Like to back a study. Well, and you also have to look at the time period,

everybody was smoking. It was a lot harder to do a study because it was just normal. It was part of, you know, you grew up, you got to, I don't know, 14 and you started smoking. Got a job at the doctor. You went bowling and you dated a tea bird and you smoked a cigarette, I don't know. But by 1950, we knew definitively that lung cancer was definitely linked to smoking cigarettes.

And everything started to go downhill for big tobacco at that point. Oh man. In 1958, I thought this was kind of interesting. A retrospective study was done looking at all of the different uses for tobacco from like the, basically the mid 1800s to the early 1900s. And they decided that some of those were still successful. So, some things that in 1958, a study said were successful uses of tobacco, applying it to bites of poisonous reptiles and insects. HISTORYA, not a real thing.

Not a real thing. Kind of calls your study into question. Still didn't know that. Pain, Neralgia, Gau, hair growth, tetanus ringworm, rodent ulcers, wounds, respiratory stimulant. You could also use it for constipation, hemorrhoid, obliterating, strangulated hernia only by mouth. They made sure to note, not correct them. Yeah. Now that would be less than desirable. Malaria. You could dislodge materials from the esophagus by inducing vomiting with nicotine and nasal polyps. He said, what's a rodent ulcer? That's that basal cell skin cancer that I

mentioned earlier. That's what it used to be called. It actually, that's what we would call a Clang Association for those medical students out there. Get back to study. If you see a question on your boards where there's an ulcer that looks like a rodent bite, that's a basal cell carcinoma. That's what they'll tell you. It looks like, I don't know, having never been bitten by a rodent? No, we stay away from those. It's 2013. I have to imagine that it was much more likely back in like the early 1900s to have been

bitten by a rodent. And so then therefore, if you got a basil cell scan cancer, you would say it looks like that rodent bite I had once looks like one of those many rodent bites I have right now. They would do everything they made chairs out of rodents. How horrified are you at the idea of a rodent bite? I can't understand a world. You're they're bite? I can't understand a world. They're small. I can't understand a world in which you would allow yourself to get in procs. He would have to drop from the ceiling like mission impossible in order to bite me.

I'm always looking for rodents all the time. In the 1900, there was also a sav made of burnt tobacco leaves, just as one last use that was still kind of popular. Tobacco leaves, lannolin, and they used it for ringworm and athletes' foot and ulcers and wounds, and it also made a good metal polish, by the way. It's 2013, said, what are we using it for now? Pretty much the only thing that we're really using nicotine containing substances for are to wean people off of other nicotine containing substances. So you can buy nicotine today in a patch, in a gum, in a lozange, perhaps in an electronic cigarette. An e-cigarette, as it's known. If you want to look cool.

And those, again, are all just use the only indication medically is smoking cessation, so to get people off of tobacco. We know definitively that tobacco is linked with lung cancer as well as it's myriad other problems. And so don't smoke, kids. No matter what we told you in the beginning of this episode, don't smoke. We want you to get off the nicotine, but we hope that you never get off of our program

here, saw bones. Sure appreciate everybody listening and really, really appreciate everybody tweeting about the show. It just means the world. Thanks to the gals from stuff in recent history class for their very kind promotion of our program. Absolutely. That made our day.

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and leave us a review, that would we'd appreciate that. Absolutely, and you can always tweet at us as well, at Justin McElroy. She's at Sydney McElroy, S-Y-D-N-E-E. I also wanna say a big thanks to the taxpayers, they made up our theme songs, it's a song called Medicine. Just for us, they wrote it specifically for us. That is not true, but we do love that song.

Tweeded them, they're the taxpayers and thank them for letting us use their music. Or just tweet at us, did we say that at Solbons? Oh, at Solbons, yeah, it's our handle. So follow us there and tweet about it. Make sure to keep sharing the show, and make sure to join us again next Friday. Until then, I'm Justin McAroy. I'm Sydney McAroy.

And as always, don't go a whole, in your head. Alright! Maximumfund.org Comedy and Culture Artistone Listener Supported Thank you.