Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine - Sawbones: Vinegar

Episode Date: March 10, 2016

This week on Sawbones, Justin and Sydnee harness the power of history's longest lasting, most widespread and (perhaps) least effective home remedy. The good news about vinegar? Still great on fries. Music: "Medicines" by The Taxpayers

Saubones is a show about medical history, and nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion. It's for fun. Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boil? We think you've earned it. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a moment of distraction from that weird growth. You're worth it. that weird growth. You're worth it. Alright, time is about to books. One, two, one, two, three, four. We came across a pharmacy with a toy and that's lost it out. We were sawed through the broken glass and had ourselves a look around.

Some medicines, some medicines that escalate my cop for the mouth Hello, everybody and welcome to saw bones and wearing to Miss guided medicine. I am your co-host Justin McElroy Sid I cannot seem to shake this Great gunk that I've had can you like can you suggest this this cold? Let's been going on forever and forever and I at least I feel like I've been hearing about it forever And I'm right. I think that way to you. Maybe I've been hearing about this like simple little cold that you've had I smart Alex smart Alex. What are you hearing? You like home remedies anything you think of that might help? I mean if you tried vinegar I guess I can. Yeah, I could try it. Also, I'd not mean to continue to complain here,

but I've been in some dry skin right around my scalp. Sure, sure. Stuff, I know you're not a dermatologist, but do you have any suggestions, any ideas? Yeah, how about some vinegar? Well, yeah, I guess I could I Okay, I'm already getting vinegar. I guess I should try that. Yeah vinegar. What about? Okay, we need to start recording the show. I guess I already pressed record didn't I but like do it?

It's too late for that. It's a show. But super quick. Do not let me forget the induction Stove top upstairs the last top. I've got to figure out what to get it clean. It's really hard to clean off and I cannot figure anything out. So remind me to like check what could be yours. Well, no, I, you don't need to do that. Just, you know, how about some vinegar? Okay, said you are suggesting vinegar for everything right now.

Yeah, it seems that way. It's weird, huh? Yeah, it seems that way. It's weird, huh? Yeah. It's weird. What's going on? Well, so vinegar has, it's really, it's really hot right now. It's so hot.

Yeah, vinegar. It's really popular. And everybody's kind of on this, like not just vinegar, apple cider, vinegar, or ACV, you know, for those of us, ACV. ACV? For those of us in the know. Okay. Uh, people are really into it now. And usually I kinda shy away from these things,

but I thought maybe I'd be more popular if I also suggested vinegar for everything. Okay, so you're just gonna give it in. Yeah, I'm just gonna give in. I mean, who needs research and science data? Act. Just go for it. Well, take this, Neil the Grass Tyson.

I mean, I'm going wild. I'm like, you know me. I'm like into it. Like, you don't need a lot of convincing to get me off that science train and into that just like belief, just like leaning into it train. So what do you, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, do it. Just tell me everything about vinegar. Well, I'd be following in a long, proud medical semi medical tradition of using something like, you know, that we

don't necessarily know that works over and over and over again. Because vinegar has been used since ancient times. Can I tell you something that you realize? What? I don't even know what vinegar is. I'm going to tell you what realize? What? I don't even know what vinegar is. I'm going to tell you what vinegar is. Okay, good. Like, I know what vinegar is, and it's like, where is this coming from? Real quick, I do want to thank Kara, Alan, and Erica for suggesting vinegar, because it is so hot right now.

So hot right now. Vinegar. So vinegar comes, the word vinegar, comes from the French for sour wine. Okay. And this is probably because of the way that it was first discovered, or at least this is the thought, is the first time that someone made vinegar it was by accident. So you take some sort of carbohydrate fruit or you know some sort of wheat or grain or whatever and you're going to ferment it, right? Right. And after that first fermentation,

you're going to have alcohol. Okay. Woohoo. Yeah. Hey, let's stop there. No. We're not going to stop there. We're going to ferment that again with a certain kind of bacteria that could randomly fall into some sort of container easily, which is why this probably happened by accident the first time. Some sort of acetic acid creating bacteria, a cedobacter, if you will. And that bacteria will create acetic acid from the alcohol and everything that was already fermented, correct?

Right. This product is now vinegar. So you can imagine if you left something to ferment for too long out in the wild, eventually this would occur, probably, most likely. When you say the alcohol, you literally mean like, it becomes not an alcoholic again. Yeah, no, vinegar is not an alcoholic beverage.

No kidding. I would guess the first thing is not much of a beverage at all. I think we'll get into that. Oh, God. I would quibble. But no, so the first soda is sour wine in that sense. It's something that you fermented into something delicious and then nature fermented into something. I don't know that I would call it delicious personally.

And you can do this with any carbohydrate. So whatever you're starting with, I mean, like if we're talking about apple cider vinegar, assuming we started with apple cider there, you know, or apples, or, you know, apple cider than apples, but you could use any kind of fruit. You could use anything. That's why there's so many different kinds of vinegar, right? Right.

There's so many different varietals of vinegar. Varietal vinegar. There's actually two fermentation processes for vinegar and it doesn't really matter. There's a fast way to slow away and the only reason I'm bringing this up is because... Hold on, I got... I've been using my whole seat, I was good up to the edge, two different ways to make a vinegar? Hold on. There is only one thing I've already that I'm mentioning this. Okay. Because in the slow fermentation process, their forms this substance, on the top of, as it slowly ferments,

as it's becoming vinegar, it collects this substance on the surface of the vinegar type solution. It's a slimy substance. And what it's made up of is a lot of yeast and a lot of bacteria goo and it's all mixed together in like this stew, this slimy stew that floats on top of the vinegar substance. Now if you paste your eyes vinegar this will go away. But if you're if you're really into vinegar, you don't want that.

No, no, no. No, because that substance, which by the way, has a name, we call it mother. That is not a joke. It is called mother, vinegar, mother, mother, vinegar, the mother of vinegar. That substance, people think has a lot more health benefits. All these things that we're going to talk about than just vinegar, you know, that's already been

pasteurized, just the clear vinegar. So that gooey, slimy bacteria yeasty, I- mother, is ingested by people for health benefits. This is the thing that just, I don't know why this is a trigger for me. Why is this making a city which is not a lot of whacked stuff. I literally have been about to throw up for 30 seconds. I don't know why this grossed me out so much. This really grosses me out. Oh my god.

This is like primal. It's like instinctual, you know what I mean? Well, that's because it's a bacteria yeast goo off the double fermented fruit. Like every impulse in your like primal programming is not like, wait a minute, it's the junk you throw off of the thing that's rotted twice.

Like, no, thank you. No, no, I mean, it probably doesn't smell good. I would imagine. No, Sydney, I think it smells bad. So what if it's double alcohol? What if alcohol leaves for the vinegar and it comes back for that? It's like, what's up?

I heard you guys are throwing a party and it just gives you super drink. Not in the mother. Alcohol too. It's like a new alcohol that's better than the old alcohol. I think, by the way, I think it's called mother because I think you can kind of use it like you would, you know, like a sourdough starter.

Yeah. Like you have that little bag of weirdness that I think you can use this use it like you would, you know, like a sourdough starter. Like you have that little bag of weirdness that I think you can use this to start a new vinegar. So I think that's where the mother comes from. Anyway, for whatever reason, that really, you x me out. And so, but you will hear, you will hear people say, like if you're gonna use vinegar for health benefits, you don't wanna use pasteurized vinegar,

you want the murky nasty stuff. Great. Yeah. Vinegar is more than just a cedic acid, which a lot of people nasty stuff. Right. Yeah. Uh, vinegar is more than just a cedic acid, which a lot of people are familiar with that. Like, oh, it's an acid. It's some sort of acid. It's a cedic acid. It is that.

But there are a lot of other things in vinegar, and it depends on what you start with, but there are mineral salts and amino acids. There are some, uh, trace amounts of different vitamins. There's all kinds of stuff in there. So you can't just take, there is a cedic acid that is a substance that exists all on its own. That's not vinegar and you can't just dilute that and call it vinegar and pasteurize food with it. Or I'm sorry, preserve food with it. I'm gonna like the conditions aren't right for fermentation but I do feel like

sometimes if wine goes rogue like if you leave wine open too long or something like I do think it's kind of like a vent. I can't remember having kind of like a vinaigret vibe. That can happen. I mean, that's not unheard of. That was probably, again, that's probably how this first happened. Somebody was making wine and it just kept fermenting. And there you go.

It could have been me. So yeah, if you left something that was still fermenting out long enough, because these bacteria that make acetac acid are just floating around, there's out there, just around. One time I left Mountain Dew in the water bottle that was attached to my bicycle when I was a kid,

and I left it in the garage for like six months during cold season, and when I got it out, I thought it was alcoholic, I thought that I had it was alcoholic. I thought that I had fermented Mountain Dew. I hope you don't ever ferment Mountain Dew because a Mountain Dew alcoholic product would be amazing. No it could really cost a lot of damage I think. Yeah but it would also be like I'd be rich. Right. Like super. No you'd be super. You're a flier of vodka. Isn't that one of the three?

Y'all have steadily doing it. They have a mountain, dude. I don't want to know. They, of course, it's not labeled. This is why I drink beer, people. Okay. So this has long been used as a food preservative, by the way.

Once we figured all this out about vinegar, it was a good thing to you use to keep food from going bad and for flavoring and things like that. Also, there are these weird stories that will pop up like Hannibal of Carthage used it to dissolve boulders that were in his path while he was invading Italy. I don't know if vinegar, I mean, I guess like enough, you can just dump it on a boulder. How big is this boulder? I have problems, but anyway, I found this documented several places, so there you go. There are a lot of biblical references to vinegar. I saw one person, I didn't count, I don't know if this is right, said that vinegar is referenced as many times as wine in the Bible. Wow.

I don't know if that's true. You can check that. Okay. Hi. Hippocrates used vinegar on everything. He really liked it for wounds, for sure. It was thought to clean wounds and disinfect wounds and help wounds from healing. Before we really knew what infection was, it was thought to keep them clean, especially

ulcers. He also, the Greeks and Hapocrysis, while used something with vinegar in it called oxymel, which was a mixture of honey and vinegar and it would be used for coughs, but also for just about everything else. So I want to tell you about oxymel. Okay. That's pretty good branding for Greeks. Yeah. For the ancient Greeks. Sounds good. It also sounds a little like a narcotic, which is upsetting to

maybe. Yeah, a little bit. So oxymel was four parts honey and one part any vinegar. Apple cider is a popular idea now, but I think if you scan through the references from Hippocrates, he never says apple cider vinegar. He just says vinegar. It probably wasn't apple cider vinegar in all honesty. Yeah. You could just mix those together and you got oxymel or you could boil it down with some water and have like a concentrated kind of syrupy thing. And then you keep that in a bottle basically on the shelf and you mix it with other stuff to use as like a restorative.

So you can take it for fevers, you can take it for sore throats, whatever, whatever is ailing you. They also put it in teas, and it would be used as like a base for a cough syrup as well, because you could boil it down to a CRP substance. So is apple cider vinegar, was that made from like alcoholic cider? No. Well, I mean, yeah, it would be alcoholic. Not like apple cider in the way that we think about like. You could know about me if you had just regular apple cider, you could ferment that into

alcoholic apple cider and then into vinegar. No, okay. You know, yeah. I'm just gonna just continue on. Yeah. The weirdest part about oxymal, this is a strange thing. So I've never heard of this.

And as I was reading about it, this started in ancient Greece. And it was around until at least the mid 1900s. Oh my gosh. That's how long this, this existed. That'd be like a record, right? I've never even heard of it. I feel like this is a huge blind spot for me

in my medical history because you can find recipes for this substance, which, and I mean, they don't always call it oxy-mail, but it's the same thing that they're talking about. And it was in the pharmacopieos from England, from Germany, from France, all the way up until the late 1800s. And it was really popularized in the US when there was a book called

Folk Medicine by Dr. DC Jarvis that was printed in 1958, 1958 that advocated using oxymal, which at this point was some sort of mixture of honey and vinegar and different, you know, different amounts for everything. Arthritis, gal, high cholesterol, weight loss, he said that it would extend your life. So this has been around for a really long time and I think this is part of where when you get people who say like vinegar cares everything, I think this is part of where that comes from. Especially that book in 1958, that folk medicine book, that's where that love of vinegar starts to we see like the modern version of it. Yeah. Hypocrity's had a lot of other uses in addition to the oxymel and then the wounds.

It was particularly good for head wounds, for difficulty breathing. You could use some vinegar. And then also he didn't mention because we're kind of in the humor system of medicine, right, the four humors that you had to keep in balance, that it was much better for those who had too much yellow bile than those who had too much black bile. So something, you know, I would get your humor's check before you try vinegar. And then it was better for men because it could irritate your uterus. Oh, you prescribed it to men more.

I had no idea Sydney. I'm so sorry. Yeah, you could have been enjoying vinegar This old time I feel like I've never been very sensitive about that so now if you Inability to enjoy vinegar. Yeah, if you could be the one I just really don't want to be around it just in case like my uterus gets irritated by it. Yeah If you could die eggs with Charlie this year just so I don't have to be around vinegar at all Will you still I don't even want it to seep through like what if you, sure. I don't even want it to seep through. Like, what if I spilled it on like my lower abdomen and it's seep through to my uterus and irritated it? Could you watch from a distance?

Would that be okay? I mean, could you be the same? We're like a mask or something. I'm sorry, I'm asking you that. I can get that. Okay. That'll be fine. Yeah.

Are you breathing or are you? And in both ancient Greece and Rome, there was a drink that members of the military would actually drink on a daily basis, kind of to keep them healthy, like a tonic called Posca, with vinegar and a bunch of different herbs. And that was just to maintain health and people who were probably already young. Like a tonic. Yeah.

Like a daily health tonic. Yeah. And in the 10th century, we see Sung-C advising the use of vinegar with sulfur to wash your hands between autopsies. Again, before we even really understood infection or how to transmit infection, we see people trying to use vinegar to stop it. One really weird story about Cleopatra and vinegar. So... Here's the one weird trick about vinegar. vinegar clear Patrick doesn't want you to know.

So there's this story that I found referenced of Cleopatra and Mark Antony who have this bet. He is eating a lot of fine expensive foods a lot of things that he's bragging about where they came from and how much they cost and I'm assuming trying to like show off because it's clear patcher right so like he's trying to show off and she bet that she could do better and she could eat 10 million sister's sister's sister's what's that it's a unit of money it would be equal to about five hundred thousand dollars now okay uh in a single meal she bet she could spend that, like, that she could eat something in one single meal that would equal that much money, right? And he was like, well, obviously you can't. I get the finest foods and they're the most expensive and I don't even spend that much money

per meal. So, they sat down to dinner together, they had a nice whatever for dinner. I don't know what they had. It doesn't matter. For dessert, she's brought out a dish, and when they lift the cover off, all that's in it is a bowl of vinegar. She then removes one of her pearl ear rings,

puts it in the vinegar, and after a time it dissolves. Oh wow. She then drinks the vinegar, and she is now consumed. The equivalent today, according to the story of $500,000, she didn't even have to eat the other one, by the way. She can save the other. But she does because she's hungry for pearls. And she becomes obsessed with eating pearls as the only visually anymore. She's got paika. We'll pay a drive. What is that? What I, is like, this story is crazy to me because like take that poor ancient Egyptians.

We're eating pearls. We're eating pearls over here, although people these days do eat gold leaf. So it's like, no, it's not too far off there. Is that really work, by the way? If you can you dissolve a pearl in vinegar? I don't, I mean, I guess it's an acid, maybe over time. I guess you can.

I don't see anybody contradicting this story, so I think it could be. You're just shopping like some apocryphal stuff today. Hi, you really like a wet one. Okay, this is not apocryphal because the person who wrote this story down recorded it for posterity is none other than Plenty the Elder. Okay, all right, you're done.

I'm coming you off. You know my man Plenty does not lie. Because apparently he writes down everything, including this weird story about Cleopatra and Okay, all right, you're done. I'm cutting you off. You know my man Pliny does not lie. Okay. Because apparently he writes down everything, including this weird story about Cleopatra in Paris. Where it's stored, he heard from just random people. Okay. Any other countries where vinegar's like, hot?

I'm gonna tell you about a lot more vinegar, vinegar lore and just a minute, Justin, if you will first follow me to the Billing Department. Let's go. The medicines, the medicines that ask you let my God for the mouth. So sitting you were going to tell me about some other countries where vinegar is so hot right now vinegar. So like I was saying vinegar is is not just a modern phenomenon.

It dates back to ancient times and it crosses oceans in In China, it was used for lots of different things. Burns, dog bites, hernias, again, high cholesterol. It was considered essential to a healthy life. You must have your vinegar. In Japan, there's actually, and I don't know what all 10 longevity rules are, but they're apparently your 10 longevity rules. The second one is less salt more vinegar.

Hmm. So. I mean, I guess. I kinda like vinegar and salt though. Just, especially on fire. Or maybe like salt and vinegar. Yeah. Yes please.

Don't worry if I dare, yes. But maybe this is why I won't live as long. Yeah, that's okay, but like salt vinegar together though. Counterpoint. Yum. I mean yum. That's our counterpoint counterpoint. Deliving on her yum yum in I wish that was a little further from the truth in plague times Doctors were fans of using vinegar to protect themselves or so they thought from getting the plague so they would rub themselves in Vinegar infused with herbs and essential oils just kind of coat their whole bodies in it as a way to try to like, you know, provide some sort of armor against their

plague patients. There were actually, there's this weird story about four convicted thieves. And I'm not sure. I know. I know. Listen, something like this probably happened. it, you see? Probably happened. Anyway, it's part of folklore, and there's a lot of that surrounding vinegar.

Whoa, I know this story. How do I know this story? Because it's very similar to another story that we've told, but let me tell you. Okay, okay, go ahead, sorry. So there were four convicted thieves. I didn't mean to look ahead. And they were either robbing sick plague victims,

either that's the case, or they were robbing them, and then they got caught, and then they were forced to bury dead plague victims as punishment. One of these two things are true. One way or another, they were being exposed to lots of people with the plague. Gotcha. Got it. Okay, that's the important part. And they didn't get it, though.

And so at one point they were asked, why aren't you getting the plague? You should be around all these plague victims. And they said that what they were doing to survive it was rub a mixture of vinegar with a bunch of herbs and also a lot of garlic in it all over themselves. And then there's also mention, maybe they were drinking it too. This recipe has, it has a bunch of different versions. The root of it is vinegar with garlic in it, and then there can be other things. And there are lots of different mythology surrounding it,

but one way or another, this is the beginning of Four Thieves' vinegar, which is different than I think we have talked about before Four Thieves' oil. Okay. Which has a, I think like some sort of similar story, not exactly the same, but some sort of origin story involving four people who are stealing things. Either way, there is a fourtheaves vinegar

that you can use for various. Yeah, that's so straight. Yeah. Realments. Yeah, that's really odd. And this ailments. Yeah, that's really odd. And this is supposedly the story of where that came from. I guess just whenever you get it in your head that you need some of the facts, you just sum up that four thieves story.

Exactly. And just go to, it works very well. It works something labeled four thieves. Yeah, it seems like just looking right here, it seems like the fourth thieves oil is more like a central oils kind of vibe. It is. That's where we mentioned it. It's in the near way.

We talked about it in essential oils. I don't, I don't remember the backstory on why it's called before thieves. Listen, listen, vinegar is just oil that you put on chips. No, no, no, no, no, no. Think about it. In the middle ages, this was a bad idea. vinegar was poured over lead to make sugar of lead, which was used for sweetening cider. That sounds, that's nonsense. Imagine while it is great for, for sweetening things,

it is bad for getting lead poisoning, or maybe good for getting, I mean, if you want to get lead poisoning, it's a great way to get it. I wouldn't do that. In the 18th century, we see mention of vinegar for again, for everything. Drop sea, poison ivy, crew, stomach aches. We talked about before on the hygiene episode, you could use vinegar to like soak a small sponge in and then hold it up to your nose because everything was smelly in the 18th century.

Plumbing was an issue. You know. So you could walk around with that little box, the venegrate. Remember we talked about this? Yeah, yeah. And you kept your sponge that was soaked in vinegar and your venegrate and then you opened it up and like took a few whiffs when you felt like you were going to pass out. Venegrate smelly tree.

Venegrate really let's be a finger on a lot of pots. They're not medicalists. We've touched on a lot. It seems like. I know. This is the thread that connects it all. There's also, you mentioned that you wouldn't want to drink vinegar.

I wouldn't. Well, not too fast there. Oh, I mean, don't try to help me. I would like to drink vinegar. I would not. guaranteed. Unless there are there are switchals, which was a vinegar based drink that used to exist,

especially if we look around like revolutionary times. It even predates that, but especially in the US. Vinegar-based drinks that they had some water, something sweet in them like molasses would be a good example of a sweetener used for these switchels, ginger, and then of course the vinegar. And this was good basically for anything that ailed used. You would make this, and it was also used as like a refreshing Summer drink so like if it was really hot outside you would make yourself up a switch Oh, okay, and it was a vinegar based cooling drink vinegar was seen as a cooling substance in general to fight heat

So that's why we thought it would fight fever and things like that But it was also just a good way to cool off after a hot summer day There's another variety and you could mix it with alcohol if you wanted to. There was another variety that was probably more often mixed with alcohol called a shrub, which was the same idea except with fruit. And you could make it just by pouring vinegar over berries and then letting it sit there for a long time and then taking the liquid. You have this vinegar infused with some sort of fruity thing.

That's probably not that bad. And you could not drink, but... time and then taking the liquid. You have this vinegar infused with some sort of fruity thing. That's probably not that bad. And you could not drink, but when, well, you could, again, you could mix that with alcohol. You could drink it as is. And it could be used to cool fever or just cool off. It was seen as healthier than water in large quantities. It was advised that like if you're really thirsty, don't drink water, drink, drink a shrub, drink some vinegar. It was often used on ships. They thought it would prevent scurvy. We have learned that that's not true.

Well, depending on what fruit they use, right? Yeah, yeah, I guess. But yeah. Yeah. But it was actually, they probably wouldn't, I know what you're getting at, but they probably wouldn't have used a citrus fruit. Because part of why these were so popular is that you know how vinegar has a tanginess to it. Citrus fruits were not easy to obtain for a lot of people at this time period in history.

So if you didn't have that tanginess from a citrus drink, you could add vinegar instead and you'd get that same, and that's, that is very refreshing on a hot day. Vanigra. Lemonade. And so, you know. Okay, you can't, that's what you're doing now is pustics. You cannot just say lemonade, you know, like vinegar.

Like, what are you talking about? Tangy. Tangy. Okay, yes. Okay. See, it's tangy. Sure. The thought on ships too is that you can use it to prevent

scurvy. You can treat any illness you wanted with it, because vinegar was in it and everybody thought vinegar was a cure all. And then you could also use it to clean your ship Yeah, great. It's sponsored. We're bringing junk We see it soon after this proposes a treatment to control diabetes Which is interesting and I'll talk about why I was some current research But especially before we had any idea how to treat diabetes vinegar was often used

And then the use for wounds, the use of vinegar to clean wounds actually persisted all the way up until World War One, where people were thinking that this was a good way to disinfect and keep bacteria from growing in a wound. Yeah. So, so let's. Okay, I have to ask, like, is it good for anything?

Okay. So I can get it, I think that there's a natural thing of like, if something tastes bad, object, I mean, I know in context it can, but like, you know, your first response to that is that it does not taste good. Right.

If something tastes bad, but also it doesn't hurt you, I think there's like, would be an assumption made that it's gonna be doing something good because it doesn't taste good. We see that a lot, I think, throughout medical history. The idea that a lot, I think, throughout medical history, the idea that because something elicits

some sort of response in your body, is either like taste bad or it's hard for you to eat or drink or it makes you throw up or makes you poop a lot or something, that it must be helping in some way. I don't know why we think that, but that is a common theme throughout medical history. I'm gonna break it down though, kind of claimed by claim when it comes to vinegar, as to what, and that is a common theme throughout medical history. I'm going to break it down though, kind of claim by claim when it comes to vinegar. And so what, and this is just what we have evidence for,

okay? Well, you know, I have the list here. Why not just throw these at you and you give me like the short answer. How's that sound? Okay. Okay. Infections. No, you'd think this would work. Let me just say this, you'd think this would work because we do use it as a food preservative. And in the lab, we have seen that it can help to kill some bacteria that can cause infections. However, it's not as effective when it comes to cleaning your house. It's not as effective as household cleaners.

And it doesn't kill all the bacteria you would need it to to clean a wound. So it really isn't a great choice for infection. It does work to clean dentures and outer ear infections. Sometimes we use a vinegar solution, we have some evidence for that, but it also can irritate the ear canal. So basically in order to use vinegar to kill bacteria, we would have to use a concentration that would damage our own cells.

So it's not a great choice. What about jellyfish things? In order to use vinegar to kill bacteria, we would have to use a concentration that would damage our own cells. It's not a great choice. What about jellyfish things? It will help with the pain, yes, but hot water is way better than vinegar. If you want something natural, what's more natural than water? Use hot water if you get a jellyfish thing. It deactivates the toxin. Nalfogas?

No. Ice? No. Warts? No. Lice? No. Warts? No. Blood pressure? In rats, we did see evidence that vinegar daily would lower your systolic. That's the top number blood pressure, but that's never been shown in humans.

You know what? I'm done with rats, by the way. Everybody's done with me, something happens in rats. It doesn't matter. They're eating Splenda like 24-7 and they die of cancer. And it's like, there's none on Splenda. Aspartame. Like everything gives rats cancer. They're eating Splenda like 24-7 and they die of cancer and it's like, there's a non-lust Splenda. Aspartame.

Like everything gives rest cancer, they suck. Like and everything fixes their blood pressure. I just think, I think that's an old joke, but I think it's true. Like maybe Ratch just get a lot of cancer. Maybe just, okay. C-A-D risk. Coronary artery disease. As I was about to a new brain.

Justin doesn't understand my abbreviations. There was a study that showed women who ate a vinaigrette on their salad as opposed to some sort of creamy salad dressing were less likely to get heart disease. And so they tried to tie that to vinaigrette. I think there's a whole lot of other things you could say about that. Frankly, as a woman who loves ranch, but chooses that vinaigrette because I'm trying.

I see I like vinaigrette anyway. Cancer? I'm sure it cares cancer, right? No. No. No, there is nothing concrete to those claims. There have been some studies in labs. Some anti, like does it have some,

does it reduce oxidative stress? Like that whole antioxidant thing, but no, it is not, at this point, has not been proven effective against cancer. In one study, it was actually shown to increase the rate of cancer of one kind. In another study, it is not, at this point, has not been proven effective against cancer. In one study, it was actually shown to increase the rate of cancer of one kind. In another study, it showed that it decreased, so we're kind of equivocal.

And the apple cider vinegar, no. So vinegar gives you cancer, you know? No, no, no, I just say that. I just say it won't cure it. It says here at DM, so I'm assuming dungeon master. Or diabetes maladis. Sure, man. This is interesting. This is the one thing that I'll give vinegar, a little bit. Sure. This is interesting.

This is the one thing that I'll give vinegar a little bit. I think this is the only thing I give it. When they did some studies where they gave people vinegar with meals, they found that their sugar after a meal, their glucose after a meal, was not as high as somebody who didn't get vinegar before the meal, so that somehow helps you use the glucose a little better so you don't have as high blood sugar afterwards. But we need a lot more study before we figure out what role it would play. And if it's even worthwhile, is it enough that it would even be, you know, because if it lowers it a pointer to,

is it even worthwhile at all to use? Is it actually going to help to prevent diabetes from getting worse? I have no idea. But I do think it would be interesting to do more study on that. Real quick weight loss. I have no idea, but I do think it would be interesting to do more study on that. Real quick, weight loss. Not really significant. No, there was one study that showed that you got full faster if you took vinegar and that's all that we've ever seen. That's all we've ever seen.

Heartburn. There is no evidence that it helps with heartburn. It is entirely anecdotal, but oh boy, oh boy, there are people on the internet who will come try to convince you that it fixed their heartburn. I have no idea. I've never tried it, but there is no evidence for it. Is there anything we can use it for?

We do use acetic acid, it's not vinegar, but the main acid in vinegar is acetic acid. We use it in, sometimes when we're doing an exam of the cervix, if we're looking for cells in the cervix that might be infected by the human papilloma virus, the HPV virus, which leads to cervical cancer in some patients. We can apply the acetic acid to the cervix and they'll turn white if that area might be infected. An area we might need to investigate for regular cells. So,

that's not really vinegar, but it is medical use of acetic acid. And there is some stuff you need to know, because usually I'll give things that are fairly harmless a pass as long as people aren't trying to convince you to use them instead of like don't go get don't go see a doctor for your cancer just drink vinegar obviously I have problems with that. But there are some problems with vinegar. There was a patient who drank 250 ml of vinegar a milliliters of vinegar a day and got low potassium from it which can cause heart arrhythmia is that can be fatal.

So too much vinegar is bad for you. There was somebody else who drank it to dislodge a crab shell that was stuck in their esophagus, and she wound up with a lot of damage to her esophagus from it. Okay. There were also some studies that showed in diabetic patients who took a lot of vinegar, while maybe their glucose was slightly better,

they had more stomach problems. There's also been studies that show that it can cause more tooth decay than people who don't regularly consume vinegar, and it can interact with some of your medications. Diab is a silent killer waiting in your kitchen cupboard. Diabetes, crab shell woods. What doesn't this sinister substance cause tonight 11 vinegar? I would I would just say this about vinegar. It gives you cancer. No, if you're using vinegar

for your food, you know, like most of us do, I think that's fine. I think if you want to use it medicinally, I would talk to a doctor first always always talk to your doctor first before you're going gonna try something like this I wouldn't bank on it. I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket and Just because I think this just goes to prove People all over and over again will say well, you know vinegar is good because it's been around since apocrates If you listen to our show, I hope you know that the fact that we have been doing something

for hundreds of thousands of years does not mean that it's right or good or helps in any way. We as humans will do the same thing over and over and over again despite evidence of the contrary. So folks, that's going to do it for us. Thank you so much for for listening to our program I'm sorry that my voice still sounds like that's hopefully a little improved at some point in the future. Justin loves it his voice sounds like

this so don't let him fool you. No I mean he sounds like low and gravely a whole time. It does sounds awesome. Old time late night radio. How to hear to talk. It's really sad. Thanks also again, the blue apron, who makes cooking at home easy. And don't forget, you can get your first two meals for free by going to blue apron.com slash solbones. Hey, looking for a new podcast, I would highly suggest you got a maximum fun.org and add any one of their fantastic shows. They've got a ton of good ones. This week I got into, we got this, which is a really funny, newer addition to the maximum fun family.

It is about two really funny dudes, Mark Gagliani and Hal Lublin, who talk about a topic and try to like settle a long-standing debate. One of the ones that I listened to this week, for example, Best Girls Got Cookie. You know stuff like that. It is a really funny show and they're really funny guys and you should check it out. It's that and so much more at MaximumFun.org. Thanks to the taxpayers for this user's something medicines is the intro natural program. Thank you as always for

listening to our show. And please join us next week, probably on Wednesday, probably on Wednesday max fun drive kicking off next week. We got that means cool stuff. We got a cool solbona for donors that we cooked up. I think people are really going to dig. Yeah, I'm not entirely comfortable with its existence, but there it is. I did it for you. It's gonna be great. I never gave you nothing. Let's talk about that next week. Till then, my name is Justin McRoll. I'm Sydney McRoll. As always, don't jello in your head. Maximumfund.org

Comedy and Culture, artist owned. Listener supported. You guys I'm so excited to introduce to you my new baby getting curious with Jonathan Beness. This is going to be a really fun look at things that I find curious. Whether it's a menstrual cup, it might be the Romano family, it might be fracking, it could be Carly Fiorina. I don't even know.

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Curious. Hi, hi, hey. Hey.