Scamanda - Scamanda: The Aftershow with Charlie Webster
Episode Date: February 21, 2025It’s finally happening, Scamanda Fans! We have heard your pleas, and we are delivering!!!! In this special episode, Charlie Webster is answering ALL your questions. How di...d Amanda pull off one of the biggest scams the world has ever seen? Where did all the money go? What happened behind the investigative scenes? AND…. Did Cory know? Yep. We are going there. You WON'T want to miss this! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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Hey Scamander fans, Charlie here.
I've got something big you won't want to miss.
If you love the podcast,
then you need to watch Scamander, the docu-series, Thursday
nights at 9pm, 8c on ABC and also streaming on Hulu.
Watch for yourself as every step plays out and see first hand how Amanda Riley's world
spirals down and out of control.
The lies, the betrayals, the investigation, the police,
and some of the people closest to Amanda Riley
share their stunning and emotional stories.
Thursday nights at 9 p.m. 8 central on ABC
and streaming on Hulu.
This amazing new series will be taking an even deeper dive
into the notorious con artists,
and I promise you, you will be on the even deeper dive into the notorious con artists and I
promise you you will be on the edge of your seat with jaw-dropping twists turns
and shocking revelations trust me you won't be able to look away so make sure
to watch Scamander the shocking an incredible new docu series on ABC and
Hulu if you love the podcast you are just going to love this.
Grab your popcorn, set that reminder, and tune in Thursday nights to what will sure be pure prime time drama.
Believe me, you don't want to be the only one not talking about this show. Scamander on ABC and streaming on Hulu, Thursday nights and 9pm, 8c.
Welcome to this special episode of Scamander. It's me, Charlie Webster. I think you know me by now, I'm your host. Now, whether you've been with us from the start or you're just
tuning in after watching the docu-series on ABC and Hulu, I'm really glad that you're
here. I can't wait to dig into things. The show really would not be the success it is without you.
I'm so grateful to all of you, you devoted fans.
So I'm doing what you've all begged me to do for so long
and I'm so grateful I've got the opportunity to do it.
I'm opening up the mailbox, which is huge,
and answering all your burning questions.
I really hope we can have a great, intimate conversation.
So before we jump in though, of course I want to remind you that this Commander docu
series is now streaming on Hulu. So if you missed an episode or you want to
binge it, which I know a lot of you did want to binge the TV show and the
podcast, it's ready! You've got it and it's waiting for you. Okay grab whatever
you need, a drink, a snack and let's settle in. As you probably know by now
for me it's a cup of tea.
It's always a cup of tea. I know it's super stereotypical and it's English, but it's true.
So let's dig in. All right. It will come as no surprise that the most common question I always
get is, how did Amanda pull this off for so long? It's the one that kind of baffles all our minds.
And listen, when we first started unraveling Amanda's story,
I was really just as shocked as you were.
I sat there with all these blog posts
that Nancy had handed over to me.
And I was like, I can't, the conflict in my head
of whether this was real or not,
because I could see pictures of Amanda with tubes
actually in in lying in
hospital beds in her arms in wheelchair holding a balloon with a smiley
sunflower face like how could this be fake they weren't fake pictures they
weren't AI they weren't photoshopped they were real pictures and then if you look
at all the writing with her blog it was so detailed and well you know what I do
for a living I tell stories I'm a well you know what I do for a living. I tell
stories. I'm a journalist. I know what a good storyteller is and Amanda's a good
storyteller but she was also really explicit in her blog. She talked about
like PD-1 trial, Catruder which is immunotherapy drug and I hadn't even
heard of Catruder before I started reading Amanda's blogs and she talked
about CT scans.
She used language that was so specific to illness, to cancer. I even saw a doctor's
appointment which had confirmation of blood transfusions, a doctor's letter, medical
bills. How can this be fake? Then there was testimony. I started to speak to people. People
are saying to me, no, no, Amanda fainted. I saw her. I saw her being taken off in an ambulance.
This was somebody who was not just lying, but actually acting out as if she actually had.
And Amanda's also a great speaker. She spoke on stage in church. She spoke in cancer groups.
She's captivating and she was representing hope and trust in her community.
She's a young mother of two with cancer. Who questions that? Because even when she did
get caught, people still believed her. It was really interesting because I'm like,
well, who's going to be the person that says that this woman doesn't have cancer? That's
when we now know that Lisa was the anonymous tip to Nancy. And like, how could you be that person that got this wrong?
And when I was looking through everything, to me, the evidence pointed to somebody that
did have cancer and not that was faking it. That's how subtle everything was. So to kind
of list off how Amanda did it, it was emotional exploitation, using sympathy and compassion, our natural
instinct to help and protect people. And it's really difficult for anyone to doubt that
because to doubt that you'd feel really guilty, right? I think also like don't underestimate
the power of repetition and public performance because there was constant consistency in
her lies. There's so much to get through. I'm just flicking through all these questions.
So let's get straight into things with the first question.
Here we go.
So Vale of Echo underscore seven seven nine.
How is it possible that no one caught on?
I'm no medical professional, but even the at home clinical trial alone seems like it
should have been enough to set off some alarm bells.
Like, did none of her readers happen to be doctors, nurses or health professionals? clinical trial alone seems like it should have been enough to set off some alarm bells.
Did none of her readers happen to be doctors, nurses or health professionals? Or were they
but just too scared to call her out? It seems hard to believe. You know what I would say
to that is hindsight is 20-20 because when I'm making a story like this, when I was making
Scamander, I'm like, I started to gather all the information and you become this person
that knows everything. But then at the same time, I've got toamander, I'm like, I started to gather all the information and you become this person that knows everything.
But then at the same time, I've got to make sure that I like look at things like, well,
was it hard to believe that people didn't know or was Amanda so subtle and so clever
in her lies and manipulation that you wouldn't know?
And there actually was somebody that was in Amanda's life who is a nurse and he actually
features in the docu-series on TV.
He's not in the podcast because when I approached him at the podcast, him and his family were
just so traumatized.
They just felt like they couldn't get their heads around it.
And then when they listened to the podcast, they realized the extent of everything that
happened and then reached out to me and started to share their story post podcast, which sometimes
happens when you put these stories out. And he didn't read the blog because why would he? Because Amanda
was in his life. So for him, he didn't need to read the blog because he saw Amanda. He
saw her at church. They saw each other personally. And he was just being there as a friend. He didn't read the
blog and I didn't know that you couldn't give Catruder at home, like do you? Like I'm not
a medical professional so I had to research that and then you can actually give some immunotherapy
at home. So then I was like, okay, is there a possibility that this is a new trial, like
we've got it wrong? So it's like being really detailed and making sure.
And I questioned, questioned, questioned that over again.
And to be honest, at first glance, I don't think you'd question anything.
This is someone people knew and they saw it with their own eyes.
So why would you question it from a blog post?
Because they saw Amanda with a shaved head. They saw Amanda upset, cry, ill, sick,
in tears, talk about her situation. It was acted out perfectly.
Next question. This is larkdone86. I still cannot wrap my head around how Amanda was
able to waltz into hospitals so frequently and gain access to hospital beds, IVs and vials of chemo medicine. Most people can barely
get out of the waiting rooms, true, so how was she able to get her hands on those things
if there was nothing wrong with her? People don't get IVs if they're healthy and isn't
it illegal to steal medicine that is not yours? Yeah, absolutely right. You make a really great point, Larkdon86. According to Amanda, there were times where those hospital visits
were real. They just weren't for cancer. There was other things wrong with her. She said
she's got things wrong with her lungs. There was a back problem. So that's according to
Amanda that she was going into hospitals for other reasons that were true. You know, you
said about people don't get IVs if they're healthy, no, but you can get an IV if you
go into an emergency room and you're exhibiting symptoms, which I think aren't really hard
to fake, right? You can be like,
oh, and kind of bend over and also stealing medicine is an illegal, yeah? But again,
probably really hard to prove. And I just want to say in terms of the medical equipment that
it's actually really easy, sadly, or maybe not sadly, because maybe it's important you can buy
medical equipment online, but you can buy medical equipment online. You can buy oxygen tanks, you can buy tubes, you can
buy all sorts of things, masks. And so that's quite easy to buy online, have it delivered
in your home so you can set it up to make it look like you're ill. So it's really intricate.
I don't think it's a case of just like her waltzing in and being like, oh, can I have a bit of chemo
and steal this vial to take some photos?
I think it was far more intricate than that.
Moving on to the next question, Rue underscore Shiro.
I have to say, I feel like you've been way too easy
on Amanda.
Why does it seem like you're always trying to stay neutral
on the situation? I love this question. Is it not sort of undeniable that she's a cool
person? Well you know what I love your honesty and thank you for asking me
that and I like challenging questions because I constantly, honestly you have
no idea how much I constantly check myself. So I am glad you asked this
because I spent a lot of time mulling this over. It was really important firstly for me to stay neutral because that's what
I'm supposed to do as a journalist. We have like a thing about ethics, morals, and it's
not for me to go in there and judge and be like, hey, everyone, I'm going to tell you
about this horrible person. and I also don't think
you'd have liked that because isn't it for you to decide what you think and I
also I'll be really blunt I honestly don't think it would have been anywhere
near as interesting in fact you probably wouldn't even know about this show or be
asking me that question because if I said that it would have been over in like
30 minutes and you know I do remember some people being like, oh, you could have told this story in
like two episodes.
No, you couldn't because you would never have understood how this played out.
And the only way you can really understand the depth of someone is show the patterns
of behavior and how this happens.
And I feel like it was really important for me to sit there and get the facts right.
I know that sounds boring but facts are really important because what if Amanda was telling
the truth and everybody else had got this wrong or Nancy got this wrong or I got this
wrong.
What if there was like an underlying reason that doesn't justify but it was important
to tell. What about if there was like somebody else pulling the strings
behind the scenes? You've got to kind of ask all these questions because if I
make assumptions what if I get it wrong? And honestly I spend months and months
and months trying to make sure that I know all the facts and in every part of
it not just about like, oh, Amanda faking
cancer but like, what was she doing here? What was she doing there? Did she lie about
that? Did she take advantage of that person? What did Corey do? What was going on with
the family? Because it's really important to understand those dynamics. And to be honest,
I think Amanda's own behavior speaks for itself. So deception is really
complicated and I think understanding why people lie and manipulate is just as important
as exposing what they did. I think it just shows how fascinating and quite frankly disturbing
it is, but I really, really do appreciate your question and it's something that I will
take on board, but I think it's up to you
not to me to tell you what to think. So I'm just scrolling to the next question
I've got them all listed here. So the next one is V.Astro. Clearly money was a
huge motivator in keeping up this act for so long but in the end if Amanda
scammed people out of X amount
of dollars, it was around $105,000, but we have actually found that there's more because
the cash that was given didn't count in the actual case because it was about wire fraud.
What did they do with it? Good question. Obviously, they wouldn't have been able to flaunt it
online without raising suspicion. So where did all the money go?
Thanks for that question.
Firstly, I strongly don't believe that money was a motivating factor.
I feel like the motivating factor, and I would say I'm 99% sure about this, was attention, validation, and this addiction of being adored and being somebody and having
purpose. And I think the money was secondary to Amanda. I do know, according to Amanda
and some other testimony, that some of the money went on the custody battle between Corey
and his ex-wife, Alitaita for their daughter, Jessa.
And if you think about it, like roughly $105,000 in wire fraud in terms of that was given to
her website and say there was like maybe another $60,000, which I think is what Nancy believes
on top of that and around cash and in-kind services and then maybe there was another 60 on top
of that. It's a lot of money, right? If somebody gave me a load of cash like that in this room
right now where I'm recording, I'd be like, thank you so much. That's a huge amount of
money. But if you think about it over time, like Amanda started the blog in 2012 and she
didn't get sentenced until 2022. And this went over a long period of time and Nancy
didn't even start looking at her blog until 2015 and it carried on and it carried on after
that. So if you spread that out over time, it's actually probably less than the average
yearly wage. So it's actually not a huge amount of money. If it had been millions, and I think
there would have been suspicion because there wasn't anything where it was overtly materialistic.
So I actually don't think money played a huge part in it. And the evidence shows that too, because there wasn't millions.
And if it had been money, then maybe there would have been like a more overt push for
money. And I know that a part of Amanda's story of faking cancer, and the reason actually
why she got prosecuted and convicted in the first place was because of money. But it wasn't
the predominant thing of the case. It was the only way that the law could get her for
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Research and supplies seen full terms at canada.casino.fandio.com. Please play responsibly. Now, one thing I know many of you are curious about is how we brought Amanda's story to
life in both the podcast and the docu-series. And it's not something I've talked much about
actually. So with the podcast, the challenge was how do I bring the visuals to life?
Because this isn't just a blog post.
This is blog posts with pictures.
So I tried to describe some of the pictures, remind people that there's pictures going
alongside this, remind people that people saw Amanda in hospital.
They're the visual aspects, which are harder to bring to life in a podcast, right?
But then if you switch it the other way around, when we started making the TV show, it's like, oh, amazing, I can bring those visuals to
life but I still want to get the intricacies of the manipulation of how this was done from
the podcast. And so hopefully they just work together. And, you know, sometimes I just
couldn't believe really what we uncovered. And I kind of do
that laugh, not because it's funny, but just because sometimes it's really hard to get
your head around things. And what I need to do is try and help you all get your head around
it.
So let me move on to some questions. Phantom Sky, while you were putting together the podcast
and Nancy was investigating, how did Amanda continue on without it tipping her off? Were there any close calls or moments during the
process when you were particularly scared that Amanda would find out? That's a really
good question because Amanda already knew. So in 2015, when Lisa sent in this anonymous tip to Nancy, Nancy started to look through the blog post
and started to investigate and she found discrepancies and she spoke to Lisa and listened to Lisa.
Then Nancy started to actually speak to people and then what happened with some of these
people is they then sent it to Amanda. So Amanda found out very quickly about Nancy,
almost immediately. So it's interesting that you said were there any close calls? And I'm
glad you asked that question because maybe I didn't get that across that actually Amanda
didn't know about this. And she did know that Nancy was looking into her. And then when
I came in, I started to look at this and Amanda didn't know about what
I was thinking of doing. And at the time I was like, okay, is this a podcast? Is this
a documentary? What even is this? And then when I went to Amanda's sentencing, I'd read
everything that Nancy had done and I'd read all of Amanda's blogs and I'd spoken to a few different people
that Nancy hadn't spoken to and just kind of tried to bring my own perspective and keep
it in my own head and at my own more neutral point of view. And then at the sentencing,
I did actually approach Amanda afterwards and you'll see it in episode four of the TV
docu-series, and it's in the very end of the podcast as well. And I told Amanda that I
was looking to make a story about what had happened. And I introduced myself and I gave
Amanda my contact details, and I said, I'm not here to judge you. I'm not going after
you, but I'm looking to tell this story." And so Amanda
knew and that was really important for me. It's not about like, you know, I know you
might all think, oh, maybe I'm being too soft, but, and we did have that question about me
being too neutral. But how could I bring you Amanda's perspective or Amanda's why or how or was she sorry? Is
she a complete monster or is she a very complicated person? So all these things that it was important
for me to tell Amanda what I was doing so she also had an opportunity to talk to me.
So actually Amanda knew about Nancy and then she knew about me from pretty
much the off. Really good question. Moving on to the next question, user 73768,
I was really disappointed that we didn't get to hear more from Jess in the
podcast and then again in the docu-series. She was such an integral
part of the story and it seemed like she was kind of pushed to the side in the greater retelling of it. Oh, yes. I'm not being yes about Jessa. I'm being yes. Thank
you user 73768. Because now I can explain why. Jessa was not pushed to the side. This
was Jessa's choice. So she's not in the docu-series because Jessa didn't want to be.
And it's really important that we, I, I'll say I because I can only speak for myself, honor that.
Jessa is somebody that went through huge trauma. She was lied to, she was betrayed.
But don't forget she was a kid. She was a child. She was a minor. This
is somebody that was raised and she spent her childhood thinking that her once friend,
initially Amanda, was her friend because Amanda came into Jess's life through Jess's older
sister Jamie. And they spent time together with this 17-year-old Amanda
that came into the family home. And she was her friend. And then Amanda became Jessa's
stepmom. And Jessa thought that Amanda had cancer. She lived in that household. She saw
it with her own eyes. I never forget one thing that Jessa said to me was she felt guilty
because she had free tennis lessons or she had free sports activities or free tickets
for things. And Jessa thought that that was obviously because Amanda had cancer and people
were just trying to give and be supportive and help as people should. And Jessa felt
guilty about that.
And obviously she absolutely shouldn't,
but she felt like, well, I was part of that.
So if you think about what this has been like for Jessa
and the impact on her mental health
and how can she trust adults?
She was a child that had adults around her lie to her.
And so she felt like it was really important
for her to share her story And so she felt like it was really important for her
to share her story and to share her perspective, to share the impact it's had on her, but once.
So I don't want anybody to think that she was pushed to the side. It was what she felt
she could give and that was absolutely enough.
Next question, Orfeo underscore quest.
Were you ever able to get more backstory
on Amanda's relationship with her mother, Peggy?
Where was she the whole time?
Are they close now?
I would imagine that the relationship helped mold Amanda
into the kind of person who could so easily lie
and steal from the people closest to her.
You know, that's one of the early questions I had as well. I
can't 100% answer that. I'm really sorry but I'm not gonna lie and like
everything I say is the truth and what I know and I did try and contact Amanda's
family but they didn't want to be part of the podcast or the TV show. I have had a little bit of contact and I do know that Peggy, Amanda's mom, is supporting
Amanda now through her prison journey and serving her time. And I also do know that
when Amanda was younger, there was a pattern of behavior of seeking approval
of adults and not really peers. This was from several people's testimony. She was less interested
in her friends liking her, but wanting the adults to like her. I really did dig into
the family and there was nothing that I could find. People just said there they were just a normal middle class family and there was nothing irregular about the father or the
mother and so I really did try and dig into that to see if that was a perspective. And
according to Amanda, I've asked Amanda and she wanted it explicitly said that her family
were not involved in this and it's actually at the end of the documentary
in episode four, at the very, very end,
that was actually something that Amanda told me.
And so we made that decision to put that out there
on the TV show because Amanda wanted to make that clear
that her family were not involved.
So it's up to you all to decide what you all
think.
How about we zoom out a bit now? A lot of you have asked, what does Amanda's story say
about our society? Or how can we protect ourselves from scams like this? Oh, it's a hard one,
right? Because I feel like sadly there are a lot of people that do manipulate people
and there's manipulation in social media now, families, friendships and people's personal
life. But I think one takeaway for me is how crucial it is to ask questions and to dig
deeper when something doesn't feel right. And it's not about being cynical, it's just about being informed and listening to your instinct. And I think there's so many times,
I mean, I've done it in my life where I'm like, you know what, I just knew and I felt
it and I just didn't listen. But don't walk around being like, oh, I'm sceptical of that
person, I'm sceptical of that person, because that's not a nice way to live as well. Okay, let's move on to the questions. So user 475963, watching this story unfold, I couldn't help but notice
how ironic it all was. Here's a woman who was praised in her church as being this godly
person, but in reality she was a mortal sinner, knowingly lying and stealing from her neighbors.
It made me really question how much of Amanda's character was even real. Was she truly religious or do you think she just aligned herself with
the church because she knew they'd be more likely to trust and support her?
Hmm, that's good. Can it be both? I wonder if the answer is both. So I wonder if Amanda might think she's religious and has faith and has God in her heart, but also
used the church. Because I think that you can convince yourself of something and sometimes
then you can actually use faith in like a cognitive dissonance way, right? Okay, hear
me out. So you can feel
that you have faith but then behave badly and then use the fact that you have faith
or that you go to church as an excuse for behaving badly. And I think we actually see
that quite a lot. Once you stand on a church stage, there's more of an automatic trust
and a belief and a credibility because the church are putting
you on that stage and anywhere where there's a position of power. Unfortunately, you know,
whether it's now with social media or whether it's like a hundred years ago, those positions
of power were used to repress people and to manipulate people. So I think it's like as old as time really.
And you can think you're religious but not accident.
So AV Mill, next question, underscore 17. I'm in no way trying to excuse how horrible
Amanda is by asking this, but has anyone been able to confirm or deny if she has Munchausens?
I know she was obviously scamming people, but it also feels like she really craved the attention, like being the center of everything. Isn't that something
people with Munchausen often do?
This is something that's come up a lot and I've thought long and hard about because I
didn't include it in the podcast. And a few people questioned me about that. And the reason
why I didn't include it in the podcast is because I can't diagnose Amanda and she hasn't been diagnosed with anything.
She hasn't been diagnosed with fictitious ormanshausens. So I can't just put it in there
and say that she has. And for me as well, I didn't want to take away from the experience
of victims and the story. And so mental health, I absolutely
agree, is not an excuse. I really do understand mental health. I'm not a doctor, but I have
studied psychology and I have got my level one schema therapy. And I've written a book
about trauma called Why It's Okay to Talk About Trauma. And I've had a lot of trauma.
And I think you're absolutely right when you
said I'm not trying to excuse but it is interesting like whether she has or she hasn't but mental
health is never an excuse for anything. There's still accountability for actions right? So
yes, psychological conditions may lead to manipulative behavior like compulsive lying
or lack of empathy, but millions of
us have mental health struggles, I would never do what Amanda did. So I think it's really
important to recognize that there's still a choice. Her actions weren't about an illness,
they're about control, deception, and personal gain and personal attention. And so I do know
that Amanda has not been diagnosed with fictitious disorder or Munchausen's or anything else, but those two things were mentioned in some court papers where Amanda asked for early leave for extraordinary
circumstances, but they weren't mentioned in terms of a diagnosis, they were mentioned
in terms of if she does and if she doesn't. I also know that Amanda has participated in
mental health counseling and it was also part of her probation. And I also do that Amanda has participated in mental health counseling and it was also part
of her probation. And I also do want to make sure that I say that I think sometimes you
can double down on lies. So think of it as in like a white lie that you might tell and
then somebody questions you about something else that's integrated to that lie and then
you'll lie again so that they don't find out about your white lie and then you have to lie again because somebody else has spoken
about that and then you have to lie again. And I know that sounds like so basic and so
low level compared to somebody faking cancer, but it is that similar pattern and I think
it becomes very addictive and then it's very, very hard to get out of your lie. And I do think that was also very
much a part of this. And the other thing I would also say is that manipulation isn't
just external. You can manipulate yourself. And people don't always see themselves as
bad people or villains and they can create their own narrative without facing the full
weight of their own deception. It's really fascinating, right, the psychology of this. I hope that answered your question.
I know it's a bit of a difficult one, but it's really great to be able to discuss that.
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Please play responsibly. So if you finished episode four of the docu-series, you know I've been in touch with Amanda while
she's been in prison and before she actually turned herself in too. And of course, the
big question is, what's Amanda up to now? She has been released from prison proper. I don't
know whether I made that word up, but I like it, prison proper. But she's still serving
her sentence. She was released early January and she's now in like a kind of like a halfway
house where she's still got very tight restrictions and she has to have permission to get out.
She has different programs and schooling and things like that. The latest release date
is the end of 2025. I suspect that will be a little bit earlier. So let's get to your
questions then. Mountain Muse underscore 90. I don't believe for one second that Corey didn't know.
Amanda mentioned multiple times that she was undergoing big procedures or staying in the
hospital for extended periods of time.
How could anyone that close to her not having noticed something was majorly off?
Was he not faking legal documents, helping manage the money?
Did they not have a joint bank account?
How could there possibly not have been enough evidence to convict him?
Mountain Muse underscore 90, your questions are everybody's questions. Let me tell you
that. And they were also my questions when I was making the podcast and building this
story and investigating everything. I do know that Corey did say under oath that he went
to all of Amanda's doctor's appointments and hospital appointments and that there was accusations
that his wife didn't have cancer and he went to all her appointments. He said that under oath and bankruptcy was claimed and Amanda's medical bills were part of that.
And obviously there weren't medical bills for cancer, but I did see medical bills for
other things. And if you turned the page over, there was a change of number if you held it to the light. In terms of the police, the
police investigated everything to do with this case and it went to the IRS. And because
the law is adversarial, you need tons of evidence obviously to convict somebody of anything. And Amanda was lying about having cancer. Lying isn't
against the law. So what eventually happened was Amanda was convicted of wire fraud, not
everything else. So the wire fraud was the money going to Amanda's support,anda.com website and to Amanda. So for the police and for the law, that was
why and how they convicted Amanda and not Corey. I did have conversations with Detective
Martinez and I do know that they looked at this case as a collective with Amanda and
Corey. But again, it was all about the IRS
convicting Amanda and that was the only way that they could stop her because lying isn't
against the law. Hopefully I answered your question with what I just told you about Corey
saying under oath that he went to Amanda's hospital appointments. The next question, Pen Poppy, was Amanda and Corey's in brackets unorthodox relationship
history ever brought up in the court proceedings? It seems insane that everyone in their lives
glossed over the fact that they have met when she was only a teenager.
Okay, okay, let's dig into this. So I didn't gloss over it, but you also have to be careful in making accusations,
right? So they did meet when Amanda was a teenager. Amanda was 17 when she was going
into Corey and Alita's home. Corey and Alita were together at the time. Amanda, I remind
you, was brought in to help with Jamie, who is Jessa's older sister, Elita's older daughter
because she was in recovery from cancer. What I do know is that Corey did go to Amanda's
graduation but Amanda and Corey did not get together when Elita and Corey were still together.
Elita and Corey split up and they got divorced. Nothing to do with Amanda. There was still
a custody battle ongoing. And then Amanda got together with Corey when she was 24 and
he was 33. So I don't think it was glossed over. It's just that like, that's about all
we can really say on it is just give the facts and then you can decide what you think about
that. JJ Howard 11, it's over to you.
So, if Amanda loves attention,
won't this fuel more of this fire
with the documentary being out?
Do you know how she feels about this docu-series?
It's a really good point.
It's something I thought about as well,
because I'm like, oh my God,
am I like giving people a platform?
I shouldn't have a platform.
Like, I definitely ask myself these questions in my head.
I want you all to know
and check myself constantly. And I don't think it will fuel the fire because Amanda didn't
want to be part of the podcast and she didn't want to be part of the TV docu-series. For
me, if somebody really wanted that attention, wouldn't you be a part of both the podcast and the TV show? I don't know.
That's just me putting a question out there. I was in touch with her while she was in prison
and I told her that the docu-series was being made and that the podcast was going to be
turned into a TV show. I asked her if she wanted to be on it, and if she felt sorry,
whether she would say that to her victims. This is
not me telling her, like this is just in my head, right? And so she didn't want to be
part of that. She felt it was more important to serve out her sentence and pay for what what she's done and then think about that down the line. And she told me that she is
sorry and she regrets it every day. And I don't get the impression that she's happy
that this is a TV docu-series. And I know that she was very concerned about it and what everybody's saying about her. So I think no
matter who you are, even if you love attention, maybe attention where everybody's saying how
much of a monster she is and how cool she is is not what anybody would want. That's just my
opinion. But I need to say, because I did get asked that a few times, that she is not
profiting from the podcast or the TV docu-series. Amanda is not getting money for any of this.
So let me scroll down. What's the next one? So many questions. It's so good. I love doing
this and I love talking to you and I really appreciate that
you've sent in all these questions. M underscore 2142, this is your question and thanks so
much for sending it in. In Amanda's court statement she said, I'm so sorry this happened
as if it all just materialized out of thin air. I guess we should have seen it coming
that someone as cold-hearted as her would have taken zero accountability
Do you think she'll ever actually apologize for what she did? And if she does do you think it will be genuine?
Well, I asked myself the same thing because I sat in that courtroom and I listened to all the victims impact statements
and at the time like, you know, it was early days for me and I was still trying to keep like a wide perspective on everything. And it was really emotional listening to the victim's impact statements,
especially Jess's statement when she stood and said that in court. And then Amanda did
turn around and she did look at the victims and then she did give her statement and the
judge said afterwards, like, I can see why you duped all these people because you're such a good
actress. That's what the judge said to her. And the whole courtroom went, and then held
their breath for about a minute to see what the judge said next. And then when Amanda
said, you know, I'm sorry, this has happened. And I was like, she's not really saying I'm
sorry, I lied. And at the time I'd never spoke to Amanda before
and now I have spoke to her while she's been in prison because I wanted to ask the same
question as you have. She has told me that she is sorry and that she knows what she's
done and she did lie and she can't believe she did it. And it's up to you all how you take that. It's not
for me to say. However, I don't feel that she's trying to manipulate because if you
were, you'd have twisted things maybe rather than outright just said, yeah, I can't, I
can't believe they'd done that. And I know that there was distress there that I do think is genuine.
But I agree that the statement definitely didn't do Amanda any favors because it didn't come across
very sincere. But let's see whether Amanda will do anything in the future and speak.
Because, you know, also remember that she hasn't said anything publicly. The
only thing she has said is to me. And I've like checked myself about that too and made
sure that I've been super factual. And I think Amanda knows that she shouldn't and can't
lie to me because it would be the wrong thing to do and I would just catch her out because she
knows that I know everything and I've seen everything behind the scenes as well.
I do feel like she's genuinely starting to realise the gravitas of what she's done and
what I will say is when Amanda gave that statement in court, I don't think she realised quite
what she'd done and the gravitas of
it. And you might be like, well, how could she not realize? Our brains can be very clever
at convincing ourselves so that we don't have to morally check ourselves because sometimes
morally checking ourselves can be like so destructive that we're like, oh my God, how
could I do that? But I think now
that the podcast has come out because there's the law and then there's the public opinion
kind of like judgment and they're two separate things, right? So Amanda has been convicted,
but then I made a podcast and released a podcast that let everyone know about it
and now released a TV show. So I think Amanda's been forced to see the harm that she's caused.
So good. I feel like we could just carry on talking for ages and like so many more questions.
I'd love to answer. Yeah. And it's just been like also fascinating for me to hear what sparked your interest
and what you all wanted to talk about.
I'd love to just keep on talking, but this is just going to be so long. So I'm going
to go to the final question. Vivi Joly. What a nice name. What's next for Amanda? What
do you think she'll do now that she's out of prison? Well, just to remind
you, I know I just said it, but Amanda is still technically in prison. She's just in
like the next phase, like a halfway house thing, which a lot of people that go to prison
end up going to. And she's doing counseling and she's doing like schooling and you know rehabilitation stuff and she
is due to get out at the end of the year 2025. I suspect that'll be a touch earlier. Amanda
is going through a divorce at the moment. Amanda and Corey are divorcing. Corey filed in January of 2024. And they're currently working through what that looks like. Obviously
there's two children. I think for Amanda, it's a lot about preparation, as in preparing
repairing what she's done. I genuinely do believe that she knows what she's done. According to Amanda, she accepts what she's done and this is about her serving that out and repairing.
What that looks like, I don't know. I do know that there's at least two people that are the victims of Amanda that
probably would be open to a conversation with Amanda. Not for an excuse at all, but an apology
and an understanding of why. For Amanda, I think it's going to be a totally new life for her,
right? In the sense that she's going to get out of serving
her sentence and get out of this last stage, you know, this kind of halfway house that
she's in. And her name is Google-able, and is that a word? And, you know, searchable
everywhere. It's on TV. It's a podcast. like her name is known now as the woman that faked
cancer. So for Amanda, I think it's going to be really hard to like, how is she going
to get a job? Because they're going to do background checks on her. And I suppose like
my question back for all of you is, do we believe in second chances? Do we believe in
rehabilitation?
If somebody's accepted accountability and that they have done something wrong.
The one thing I do want to close with, if it's alright, is also just mention people that have experienced,
I say experienced because I'm not a big fan of like battled cancer because if you lose that battle,
it's not on you, it's on the disease, right?
So for anybody that's gone through cancer,
for anybody that's lost someone with cancer,
like I know this must be really difficult,
so I just wanna acknowledge you
because we've talked a lot about everybody else
and we've talked a lot about Amanda,
we talked a lot about Corey.
And I think that's what's so cutting for a lot of people is how could you use something
that destroys lives, in many ways, like destroys lives through death and destroys lives just
even when you're still living because it must be horrific. I've never been through cancer,
but I did go through a horrific illness that put me in a coma eight years ago and on a life
support machine and I nearly lost my life and I had to learn how to walk again.
I had brain hemorrhaging problems and I do know what it's like to really battle that.
Battle, I use the word, but I really do know what it's like to go through something so
horrific like that and especially like the lack of control and the mental health
impact of it. So I just want to make sure that I acknowledge you all and yeah, and I
don't want anybody to ever feel that they'll ever be questioned. And I'd call out to people
to make sure that they still do help people. And this is about making sure that we stop lies like this and harm
that's caused through manipulation and lies and understand more about the subtleties of
manipulative behaviour. It's not so obvious and hopefully I've shown you that.
Alright, I know we better wrap up. So before we do, I just want to say thank you for all
your incredible questions and you know what, for being such a passionate and engaged audience,
I can't explain how much that means to me. It really does.
I know this story's resonated with so many of you,
and your support really does mean the world.
And don't forget, if you're craving even more Scamander,
the docu-series is streaming now on Hulu.
It's the perfect way to see the story unfold in a whole new light,
and I hope you enjoy the visuals being brought to life again I can't
thank you enough and I hope to speak to you all again until next time take care
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Music
Scamander is hosted and produced by me, Charlie Webster, and produced by Jackson McLennan.
It's executive produced by me, also Charlie Webster and Nancy Mosquitello.
Edit and theme music is by Nico Pellella, assistant producer Casey Hertz, assistant
editor Isima Greywall. We've got additional production support from Steven Sletton,
Will Hegel and Nicole Urban. The Scamander Aftershow is hosted by me, Charlie Webster
and produced by Sasha Tong. Additional production and sound design by Maddie Hanneke.
Scamander is a Lionsgate sound production
engineered by Pilgrim Media Group.
["Pilgrim Media Group"]