Scamfluencers - Fake Saudi Prince | We’ll Never Be Royals | Part Two

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

Anthony Gignac, masquerading as a Saudi prince, is finally living the life of luxury he’s always dreamed of. But of course, it’s not enough. He’s planning his biggest scam yet. He���s going to buy one of Miami’s most iconic hotels. That is, until a billionaire real estate magnate starts digging around… and discovers a trail of lies.Please support us by supporting our sponsors!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, prime members, you can listen to ScanFluencers add free on Amazon Music. Download the app today. Join Wondery Plus to listen to ScanFluencers one week early in ad free in the Wondery app. Download the Wondery app in your Apple or Google Play mobile app store today. A quick listener note, this episode contains descriptions of suicide. Also, if you haven't listened to episode one yet,

go back and listen to it. This will all make much more sense. Sachi, I'm going to ask you a question, and you have to be honest, not only because we're friends, but because it is podcasters code. Okay. Well, I do take podcasters code much more seriously than our friendship. Yeah, I know. That's why I had to add podcasters code. Have you ever bought anything or done anything just to post it

on social media? And I guess that could include thirst traps. Yeah. I'll perform hotness for attention. And you know what? You do it well. I do it so well. Well, Tony Gignac didn't start scamming for the gram, because it didn't exist when he started scamming in the 80s, but when social media came around,

he found the perfect medium to show off his own lifestyle of the rich and the infamous. Carl Martin Williamson steps into an elevator that glides to the top of a gleaming high rise into five. Carl's got a swoop of silvery hair and he's wearing a sharp suit and he's got that anxious feeling you get before a big meeting. At 52 years old, the British asset manager

is working with the biggest client of his career, a Saudi prince, sooo, or so he thinks. Carl spent his career creating global connections, and now, in 2016, he thinks those connections are about to pay off in a big way. When the elevator doors open, the Prince is already there waiting for him. He doesn't look like how Carl imagined a Saudi Prince would look. No robes or headdress or beard. No, yikes. This prince has a bull cut with highlights and favors polo shirts and shorts.

Oh, and his tiny chihuahua comes to every meeting. At this point, Carl has seen the prince's bank statements. So I guess he figures that someone with that much money can be as casual as they want. Yeah, and I mean, like rich people often dress really poorly. Yeah. Bill Gates is so rich and he dresses like a substitute science teacher. So the two business partners walk into the kind of boardroom that Carl's been waiting

his whole career to get into. And inside is a buttoned up Dutch businessman named Fritz Ronken. Fritz is known as a mergers and acquisitions Guru, which apparently is a real thing, and the Prince and his asset manager have an irresistible business proposition for him. Karl makes a pitch on behalf of his client. It tells Fritz the Saudi royal family is taking its government-owned oil company Saudi Aramco Public. And when Saudi Aramco goes public, stockholders stand to make a boatload of money.

Lucky for Fritz, the Prince is offering a select few early access to these shares, a Friends and Family Special, so to speak. And this IPO, it might be the biggest one in history. All right, so there's a lot of money on the line. Yeah, it's a huge deal, so of course, Fritz has questions. This deal, it seems way too good to be true. And he's not sure about this partnership. So Carl tries to put him at use.

He says he's known the Prince for decades and that they've been doing business together for years. But Carl feels a twinge of guilt because it's a lie. Carl's only known the Prince for about a year at this point and the LLC he set up for him is brand new, but he really wants to land this deal. So he adds something he believes is true. Getting in early on this IPO,

it's the stuff of trillion dollar dreams. First thing so too and he wants in, but there's a catch. The print says that before they close a deal, Fritz needs to earn his trust. Sachi, how do you think he does that? Let me guess, the printz wants Fritz to just give him a bunch of money. Fritz looks surprised, so Carl sweetens the ask. If Fritz loans the printz money money, the Prince will allow him to oversee

his European business, and that loan will eventually go towards this very exclusive IPO. Fritz is sold. He loans a Prince almost $5 million. Honestly, if anybody that I know was like, hey, can you give me $50? I'd be like, tell me why.

I can't this guy's just like, here's five mill? I mean, five mill to him, I guess, is your 50 bucks? Well, good for them. The men shake hands on the deal, then the prince and Carl leave the room. They have another meeting to get to. They're taking the Saudi Aramco proposal on the road. What none of the investors know is that this prince is actually a popper,

and his supposed wealth is all a mirage. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondries Podcast American Scandal. Our newest series looks at the story of OxyContin, a popular painkiller that helps spur an epidemic of addiction and drug abuse, in which prompted a broad campaign to hold the pharmaceutical industry accountable. Listen to American scandal on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. I love my kid, but is a new comedy parenting podcast from Wendry that shares a refreshingly honest and insightful take on parenting. Each week, the host will share a parenting story that'll have you laughing and thinking,

yes, I have absolutely been there. Listen to, I love my kid, but on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. And this is Scamcil Inswers. In our previous episode, we charted the rise and fall and rise again of Anthony Gignac. He's a Colombian orphan who was adopted and raised in Michigan and assumed the identity of Prince Khaled bin Al-Saud of Saudi Arabia. Last time we saw him, he was sick of staying in five star hotels, he wanted to buy one. This is episode two of our two-part series, The Fake Saudi Prince. This is, will never be royals.

While Carl and Tony go all over the world selling phonies Saudi Aramco shares, Tony is actually out of jail on probation. Remember, he was caught trying to buy a fancy Florida Keys hotel, and he's had time to cook up a better scheme. He decides he's done with being small time. Tony needs money of his own, and to make that work, he needs a money man, a wealth manager. That's the kind of rep real rich people have. So now, in 2016, he's working with Carl.

We don't know how they got connected, or what made Tony think that Carl was the right man to take the scam to the next level. If I had to guess, I'd say Tony thought he looked the part. Carl was in the British Royal Navy, and he has a law degree. He swav and charming with a dry sense of humor. Carl says he has connections with the big network of global power players. But Tony hooked his fans new money manager

by showing him a doctored bank statement for $600 million. OK, and Carl isn't capable of spotting a fake? Whether he knows a prince is a fraud or not, Carl's definitely not asking too many questions. And he and Tony have been hard at work over the last year, rounding up investors for the prince's Saudi Aramco proposal. At this point, 26 people have bought into the oil company scam and handed over about $8 million.

This is like, go fund me for rich people. So now that Tony's a scam multi-millionaire with his own wealth manager, he wants out of Michigan. It's stifling to be around so many people who know he's not a real prince. He wants to be where the real foreign tycoons are. Miami. He wants a party in the city where the heat is on.

Okay, that rolled out of you way too easy. Specifically, the ultra-ritsy enclave of Fisher Island. It's just up the coast of Miami Beach, and it is swimming with rich people. Little does Tony know, this move is the beginning of the end, and will set off a series of dominoes that will lead to his final reckoning. Perla Leechi drives her car onto the ferry to Fisher Island. Picture a ring of beachside luxury condos, two marinas, 17 tennis courts. It's a type of place where residents like Oprah and Julia Roberts cruise around on golf carts. And it makes sense because the whole island is basically a massive golf course.

In early 2017, the island welcomed another celebrity, Perla's newest client, Prince Khaled Binnell-Saud of Saudi Arabia. He's got a new penthouse there. Perla's a luxury interior designer. Her aesthetic is just like her own personal style. Opulent, dripping in gold. Her motto, excess is the word. That's a good housewives' tagline. Good for Perla.

And Perla's not surprised the Prince wants to work with her. She's designed houses for the Saudi royal family before. I've actually got some photos of her work, Sachi. Tell me what you think. It's very house of Versace, gilded, gold, a little Trumpi, a lot of like bedazzlement and white. To be clear, I love it.

It's the kind of wealth that looks a little cheap, which is my preferred type. Yeah, you want people to know your rich, what you're going to hide it? Correct. Well, Perla arrives at the Prince's penthouse. The word saltine is above the doorbell. Terrific. She's greeted by the Prince's entourage, some of his business associates, and a slew of

bodyguards. The Prince is wearing furry slippers. He's got a nine-karat diamond on one finger, a huge Rolex on his wrist, and he introduces her to his Chihuahua Foxy, who's wearing a burberry sweater and a diamond Tiffany collar. The prince sweeps Perla inside the penthouse and the two immediately start going wild with decor ideas. Gold leaf on the stairs, gold doors, all gold, everything, the budget, five or six million dollars, Perla

can't wait to get started. But Perla notices something a bit off about him. The prince greets her warmly with the handshake. She's confused. She knows from working with other Saudi clients that it's frowned upon for men and women to touch each other. Even handshakes are off the table. And then there's the prince's accent. It's more Midwestern than Middle Eastern. That feels like a clear red flag. It feels like a really clear red flag.

But like so many people who meet the prince, Perla isn't so sure the story adds up. But as long as he keeps footing the bill, none of these folks see any need to raise the alarm. Why not sit back and let the good times roll? Oh, I can think of a few reasons. Over the next few months, Perla and the prince become close. He takes her for joy rides in his convertible and on cruises on his yacht. And of course, Perla documents these escapades on Instagram. Saty, you have to check this out. Jesus Christ. They are in a convertible, top down.

They're having the time of their life. He basically loves bombs her. He takes her to dinner at Nobu, he throws her a huge birthday party, and Perla loves being around so much blank. But it's hard for her to keep up sometimes. Tony's an extremely needy friend. If Perla says she can't go out with Tony, he freaks out. Like, he blows up her phone and throws temper tantrums.

When they do meet up, Perla thinks he seems lonely, sad. And the prince tells Perla that she reminds him of his mother. You know what? If somebody said that to me, I'd be like, okay, bye. All is forgiven. If someone said that to me, I would run away. One day, Perla meets the prince to discuss decorating the penthouse.

They have lunch at the Fontainebleur hotel on Miami Beach. The Fontainebleur was the hottest resort in Miami in the 1950s and 60s. It oozes mid-century glam. And it had a star in roll in movies like Scarface, Goldfinger, and The Bodyguard. The Prince loves the Fountain Blu. He posted a video of himself hanging out there on Instagram.

This man straight up sounds like he's from St. Louis. It's like kind of amusing, imagining Tony being like, yeah, you know what it is? Saadi for life! Perla loves the fond template too. She gushes about it over lunch with the prince. She says it's iconic. Then the prince drops a bomb. He says he's gonna buy it. Imagine being like, yeah, this whole thing?

I'm buying it. I'm buying it. A few months later in May 2017, Jeffrey Sofer walks into the lobby of the Fontainebleur hotel. Cool, confident, like he owns a place. And that's because he does. Jeffrey Sofer is Florida real estate royalty. Okay, again, he's not actual royalty,

but he may as well be. His family is worth more than $4 billion, and they own the fontum blue. Jeffrey's middle aged, and he's not bad looking. Okay, especially for a billionaire, a class of people who famously don't have to be hot. Okay. Especially for a billionaire, a class of people who famously don't have to be hot. And when I was doing research,

I saw these descriptions of Sofer that said, he kinda looks like JFK Jr. and I rolled my eyes out like whatever. But then I looked him up and he kind of does look like JFK Jr. He was married to El McPherson and here's a photo of them. Yeah, you know, I kind of get it.

I think he looks like RFK Jr. Yes. Oh my god, yes. And you know, Jeffrey isn't actually the type of billionaire to really have a lot of problems. But now he's got some issues that he can't dodge. He and Elmick Fiercen are about to split up, and the divorce is going to cost him a pretty

penny, like nearly $80 million. And it's not just a divorce drama that has them in the red. The font-tambler hotel is in debt, like serious, serious debt, and it has been for years now. So when Jeffrey gets a call from someone saying they represent a Saudi prince, his ears perk up. The prince wants to purchase a 30% stake in the hotel for $440 million, which is way more than its actual value. Yeah, I mean, somebody offering you that much more money over asking should

probably set off some alarm bells. Yeah, and I mean, Jeffrey thinks this prince could be the answer to all of these problems. So Jeffrey strides across the hotel towards the entrance, just as a forerun with diplomatic license plates zooms up. A short man decked out in fur and jewelry climbs out of his car carrying a chihuahua. Yep, Jeffrey thinks this must be the guy. Jeffrey and the Prince, they hit it off. A few days later, the Prince invites Jeffrey to his penthouse on Fisher Island. He welcomes Jeffrey inside. The Prince shows Jeffrey a beautiful ornate box. He opens it and takes out a letter. It's a note from the Bank of Dubai guaranteeing that $600 million can be made

available. The Prince tells Jeffery that this is the money he set aside to buy the Fontaine Blu. And Jeffery's eyes must have turned into little stars. But the Prince tells him there's just one thing, a Saudi custom to show their negotiating and good faith. Jeffery needs to buy the Prince a gift. Okay, listen, typically I would be like, that is a ridiculous thing to tell somebody, but there are customs like this, and I can totally believe this guy was like,

I guess, sure. Dude, exactly. He's like taking dowry culture and being like, you, this is how we do business here. I hope this guy is ready to get a goat because that's what he's gonna get. Oh my God. Well, Jeffrey is a bit thrown by this.

He's a big time business guy, but he's never really encountered this before and he really doesn't want the steel to fall apart. So Jeffrey tells his staff to buy the prince a present so they can keep the negotiations moving forward. He decides to send the Prince artwork, classic rich person gift. Oh, and a $5,000 diamond-incrested dog collar. Oh, that's depressing. Jeffrey also decides that it's time for some due diligence, so a staff starts asking around about the Prince.

But what they end up finding out will be way more shocking than what they, or anyone else, was expecting. It's August 2017, three months after Jeffrey met with the prince, aka Tony. Now, they're meeting again to continue negotiations this time in Aspen. And the two are getting along so well that Jeffrey gives Tony a lift to Aspen in his private jet. Like good rich friends do. Tony's staying at the St. Regis hotel. It's a vast, brick estate with the circular pool in the courtyard.

Tony walks into the lobby with some of Jeffery's associates. And Sachi, this place looks like the overlook hotel from the shining, but like, you know, before the shining stuff happens. And then Tony gets a call from one of his bodyguards back in Miami. The bodyguard says one of Jeffery's associates has been to Tony's penthouse on Fisher Island, asking around trying to figure out if Tony really owns a place, which he doesn't. So Tony Panix, he knows the real billionaire is getting closer to the truth. He hangs up and has a full blown meltdown in the lobby of the St. Regis.

He starts screaming at Jeffrey's staff. You have disrespected me. You've insulted my honor. This isn't how you do business with royalty. I mean, that's technically true because he's not royalty. Yeah, I love that he has. He's like fake parameters that he created about how to treat royalty.

And then he threatens to sue them. Threatens to sue everyone. He tells him that the only way to get back into his good graces is to give him another gift. It's the only way to preserve this deal. Okay, well, it's clear that Tony's understanding of Asadi Prince is a lad in. Like, he is operating as if he is Prince Ali, a Babwa.

Well, it works. To apologize for the disrespect, Jeffrey's team buys him a $50,000 Cartier bracelet. The prince ends up posting a photo of it on Instagram, and it's pretty over the top. Even by Tony's standards, Satchie, you have to see it. Okay, you already know that I love this bracelet and I do think it should be in my possession. Yeah, also like, it's one of those objects that are so expensive they look fake. You know what I mean?

Yeah, and I love it and I need it. I'm sure. Someone will give you a high-end knockoff. You don't know my worth. Tony relaxes a little. Crisis averted. For now, he says he forgives sofa and negotiations keep going.

But then they go out to dinner and Tony orders prosciutto. Sachi, I'm your Muslim friend. You have Muslim friends. Do you see what the issue is here? Yeah, if I had to guess, it's that he ordered pork. Yeah, I mean, for those of you who don't know, Muslims do not order pork.

All I'm saying is, it's the biggest tell of Tony's identity of being like, yeah, I'm still gonna order pork. Jeffree's already having doubts about this so-called prince. And now he's thinking, what Muslim prince eats pork? But Tony seems totally oblivious to his faux pas. He's told Jeffrey that he has $600 million in a bank account, ready to make a deal for the fontanble. He desperately hopes that the promise of all that cash

will be enough to keep Jeffrey and his people from digging any further. A few days after Jeffrey and the Prince returned to Miami, a former federal agent named DC Page gets a call from Jeffrey. DC is straight out of a crime procedural. He has white hair, square glasses, and a square jaw. He seems like someone who would say, I'm not messing around. And he's a co-founder of V2 Global on Miami-based business intelligence and crisis management firm.

Jeffrey tells him about the meltdown and his staff witness in the lobby of the St. Regis and about the pork. And he tells him about another bizarre incident that just happened. The Prince told one of Jeffrey's associates that he could drive as a recklessly as he wants because he has diplomatic immunity. Okay, but a Prince and a diplomat are not the same thing.

So with all this information, Jeffery gives DC an assignment. Figure out what the Prince's deal is, and if he isn't a Prince, what the hell is he up to? The first thing DC does is send a staffer out to Fisher Island to get pictures. Real private-eye stuff. His staffer comes back with photos of the prince's cars and their license plates. Then, DC Google's diplomatic license plates

and almost immediately, he finds an eBay listing. I'm going to show it to you. Please take a look. All right, I mean, it looks pretty mundane. It's a, what, a seven digit diplomat license plate. It does say on the eBay listing, designated survivor diplomatic license plate. What does that mean?

So it's a prop from the Netflix show designated survivor. And Sachi, those numbers are the same as a license plate the Prince has on his car. You know what, good for him. And then DC pulls up something even bigger, a bunch of court files, all with the same title, the United States of America versus Calibin Alsoid, AKA Anthony Gignac.

So all it takes for Tony's decades-long con to fall apart are some well-placed Google searches. And this time, it's truly the beginning of the end. For about a month, DC and his team put together a case by Lawn Tony. Then in September 2017, they bring it to the State Department. And agents they bring it to the state department and agents there bring it to the US District Attorney's office in Miami where they meet with Trinity Jordan. Trinity has a reddish brown beard and the easy confidence that comes with years of public speaking.

He's been assistant US District Attorney in Miami for a little over six months, but he didn't take the traditional path to get there. After graduating from law school, Trinity spent a decade working as a pastor in Utah and writing religious books. But now that he's practicing law again, he's trying to make up for lost time. So when an agent from the US Department of State breathes him on Tony's case, Trinity is immediately intrigued. He's never heard of anything like this. A fake Saudi prince trying to buy one of Miami's grandest hotels, he thinks that it's his chance to make a name for himself at the District Attorney's office.

He's in. Trinity starts looking through the documents. The case against Anthony Gignac is pretty straightforward. He was obviously pretending to be a diplomat, which is a federal crime, and there are lots of witnesses and very obvious fake license plates. But Trinity consents there's something bigger at play here. So he does what any good investigator would do. He follows the money. Oh, okay, so what does he find? Well, it leads him to Martin Williamson International.

Remember, that's the LLC Carl set up on the fake Prince's behalf. It doesn't take long for Trinity to discover the $8 million that two dozen investors gave Tony for the oil company IPO. Tony's been using that money to pay for his extremely lavish lifestyle. I mean, this is the other thing I don't get.

Like, why did Tony decide to add the hotel to his scam portfolio? He was cleaning up just fine from the oil company IPO Gryfft. Okay, so actually Trinity figures that Tony never had any intention of buying a steak in the Fountain Blur. But he did want access to Jeffrey Sofer because that would make him look more credible and then more people would be convinced to like invest in this Saudi aromco scam, you know? Oh, okay, so he's playing the long game. Exactly.

It's about who he's seen with almost. And this is Trinity's chance to take down a big time scammer and make a headline grabbing arrest. But when he starts looking for him, there's a big problem. Tony, and Carl, and Foxy have totally disappeared. It's October 2017. Two months after Tony's trip to Aspen,

and one month after Trinity began digging into Tony's case. Tony is totally oblivious. He and Carl are in the middle of a world tour, meeting more investors to pitch them on the Saudi Aramco proposal. And also to have some fun, which is why he's still in Dubai spending an afternoon riding a camel. It's all extremely glamorous.

The life he always wanted. But he's lonely. Tony's texting Perla constantly. I miss you and I love you, he tells her. I feel so alone. That's actually really sad. This is the thing about all these scammers. Is there just like little lost children?

There's actually a photo of him taken on this trip to Dubai. His brother Daniel shared it with the HBO docu series Generation Hustle, and he says this picture is a perfect example of Tony's state of mind. I'm gonna show it to you, Sachi, and can you describe it?

Okay, well, Tony is yet again wearing one of his beloved polo shirts. This time in blue. It's clear that he's like in a giant high rise and probably has it all, but he just looks lost. Yeah, he doesn't look super happy. And a month later, as the holidays near, Perla takes pity on her friend.

She invites him over to Thanksgiving dinner with her and her boyfriend and two sons. Tony's moved and he accepts, because even though billionaires are eating out of the palm of his hand, what he really craves is the one thing he doesn't have, family. Aww, don't make me feel bad for the scammer. Yeah, I mean, it seems like Perla is the only real friendship he develops

through all these years of conning, you know? Yeah, and I mean, it's also clear that part of why he's scamming money, going all the way back to his childhood and what happened when he was a little kid, is that he wanted people to like him, and he wanted respect and he wanted adoration. And ultimately, you can't get that with money, no matter how hard you try.

Yeah. Tony Paxx for the trip back to Miami, eager to spend some time with people who feel like family. What he doesn't know is that when he touches down at JFK for his connecting flight to Miami, federal officers will be waiting for him with handcuffs. Okay, so this is where the story started, right? Yeah, exactly. It is full circle back to square one of episode one. And Carl is actually arrested too,

but he gets released pretty quickly. And that makes Tony furious. He decides to turn on his closest business partner, and no one, least of all, Carl, ever sees it coming. I feel like a... A few weeks later, Carl Williamson is at home in North Carolina, with his wife Denise and their twin teenage sons. Suddenly, there's a huge noise. A team of eight federal agents storm through the door's guns drawn.

They yell, hands up, hands up. Carl's wife Denise asks the agents to see their search warrant. She reads through it, but she doesn't understand. She asks the agents, who's Anthony Gignac? Okay, so it's clear that Denise doesn't know Tony's real name, but does Carl know who that is? I mean, it is really unclear what he knew, but the agents spend the next six hours interrogating Carl.

They also search his home office, packing up all his papers, and carting them away. After they leave, Denise has one big question for her husband. Did you know the Prince was a fake? Carl insists that he didn't, but the federal agents have made it clear. There's enough evidence to indict him on conspiracy charges.

OK, that sounds really bad. This is where things start to get really dark. Carl tells his wife that he doesn't want dinner. He says he's going to bed, and then he tries to hang himself. Two days later, he dies from his injuries. He leaves behind a short note in which he tells his wife that he's sorry. Jesus, that's really bleak.

To this day, Carl's family maintains that he didn't know about Tony's con. But he and his family aren't the only people whose lives were changed forever. When they speak out, their stories reveal the dark side of Tony's royal lifestyle and decades of lies. Two years later, in May of 2019,

Tony sits in a Miami courtroom. He's pleaded guilty to impersonating a foreign diplomat, identity theft, and conspiracy to commit wire fraud. He's about to be sentenced for his crimes. In court, the prosecutor argues that he only cared about the money and cars and jewelry he was able to buy after conning unsuspecting victims. And not all the people Tony Scam were billionaires like Jeffrey or wealthy bankers like Fritz. Lots of them were people who gave Tony their savings or inheritances, all the money they

had. See, this is always the saddest part of all these scammer stories. Like it's one thing when you're ripping off other rich people. It's something completely different when it's just like people. It's hard to think about people not being able to bounce back, you know? Yeah. Tony's public defender reads him a letter from Tony's brother, Daniel, who says it's too painful for him to attend the hearing.

But in the letter, he brings up Tony's childhood as an orphan living on the streets in Columbia. His troubles with his adoptive family, his mental health struggles, and he says that these are the reasons for Tony's life of crime. I mean, I'm sympathetic to the struggles that the boys had when they were kids, but I mean, Daniel had a lot of the same struggles, right? And it's a little facile to sort of say like, well, you know, we had these traumas, which are real,

but lots of people have those traumas without ripping off other people and further traumatizing them. Yeah, that's true. Finally, Tony himself admits to the judge that he hurt people. But he says he's not the only one person who worked on the scam. Okay, so Tony is still trying to throw Carl under the bus, right? Yeah, and Tony's insisting that he's not a monster. But the judge is not buying it. She calls him the mastermind and calls his life of crime

truly remarkable. She hands down one of the longest sentences allowed, 18 and a half years. She also orders him to repay the $8 million he stole, but it seems pretty unlikely his victims will ever get that money back. Tony's now three years into his term at the Federal Detention Center in Miami. He's 52 years old, he still has thousands of followers on Instagram. Most of the comments now are calling him out for being a scammer, and wondering what happened to Foxy? Okay, Satchi, as we know, Tony started the scam way before the word influencer even existed. Do you think he's a scam influencer?

I don't know. I mean, the funny thing is we're so conditioned now because of the internet to think about influence mostly in terms of social media and the proliferation of ideas and likes that we don't always think about the fact that gaining money and having an upsetting amount of wealth is another way to have influence over people, even if it's happening kind of on a micro scale, even if you're not engaging in that rhetoric online. So yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I do agree with you.

And remember, when he was 12 years old, he convinced someone to give him a brand new Mercedes. This guy is the it boy of scam influencers, in my opinion. You know what I'm almost impressed by the dedication to a complicated fake identity. We have to point out that he was doing this scam in a post 9-11 world. You're right, that's brave.

He could have pretended to be any other type of extremely wealthy person. He could have pretended he was from a rich mining family. He could have pretended he was from a rich brick like shipping ares. But he's stock with Arab. It's admirable. Yeah.

Another thing that absolutely destroyed me throughout this whole thing was when I heard about Tony, I thought, okay, this man's gonna have a very generic Arab accent. But he just had this straight up Michigan accent. Okay, if you're not gonna have an Arab accent, at least have an accent that's like a bit posh, like you went to an expensive school, well remember when he did like the gibberish Arabic?

Oh, how could I forget? I'm if they had that, did I come undefined? It sounded right, but those were not words. So I guess he did put in like a good college try on that stuff, but all of this is a testament to how little you have to try. Hey, prime members, you can listen to ScanFluencers Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wendry.com slash survey.

This is episode two of our two-part series, The Fake Saudi Prince. I'm Sarah Haggi, and I'm Sachi Cole. We use many sources in our research, a few that were particularly helpful, where Mark Seales reporting in Vanity Fair, particularly his story, he actually believes he is collid and the Prince of Fraud episode

from the HBO documentary series Generation Hustle. War of Walls wrote this episode, additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagi. Our senior producer is Jen Swan. Ryan Taylor White is our producer and Charlotte Miller and Tate Busby are our associate producers. Our story editor is Sarah Enny.

Our senior story editor is Rachel B. Doyle, sound designed by James Morgan. Additional audio assistants provided by Adrian Tapia. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for FreeSonSync. Our executive producers are Jeanne Cornelot, Stephanie Gens, and Marsha Lui for Wundery. you